I want to like bates but I've ended up hating him. He's either a total moron or engagement farming to another level. Because his takes are so outlandish the entire video is completely derailed to talking about him, and I've come to the conclusion over time that he's just an attention seeker. 2 falcon players outside the top 10 is just ridiculous. They were immense and ultimately just ran out of steam from so many high pressure games consecutively. It's the craziest thing he's ever done imo and just cements my dim view of his contribution overall. Ugh.
Tbates argument for putting drali so low was that he did well in Swiss but bad in bracket which is fair but then he put comm 4 places above him lmaoooo
I almost never agree with Johnny but this has to be one of his best lists. I also like how refreshing Bates can be but this is just offensive to the Falcons roster. Bates has more W takes than people realize, but for every W take he spouts like 20 L takes that drown them out.
I'm always perplexed about the Trk511 ratings. He is clearly the outstanding player on Falcons, not because he's flashy, but because he's been significantly the most impactful player on the pitch. His field control dictates the entire flow of the game, and his midfield decision-making sparks the offense and pressure for Falcons. People are always enamored with Rw9's defense or Kiileerrz's offense, but it's Trk511 consistently crushing challenges and shutting down clears while also playing passes to his team that give Falcons that deadly feel. He's also been insanely clutch for this team through two years now.
Calling him the singularly outstanding player is unfair. RW9 is consistent no matter what, and his defense and offensive passing is incredible. Killeerz is almost undeniably a top 5 offensive shooter and overall player in the world currently. TRK is inconsistent compared to both, and his midfield play can be nearly matched by RW9. When he’s more consistent make the argument that he’s the best
@@enceofthewind4145 To be honest, I'm not sure what you're watching. I don't want to sound as though I'm bad-mouthing the twins, but they are shockingly consistent under-performers when the competition intensity rises. Trk511 has been the only player to step up in Major 1 and Major 2 during their most difficult series' - compared to Kiileerz and Rw9 who actually has a massive statistical drop offs from Swiss to Playoffs (1.3 --> 0.8, 1.27 --> 0.75 respectively). Saying Trk is inconsistent is ridiculous; he's the only player who actually improves his gameplay when the competition needs him to step up.
in my view, TRK is the best however idk what it is - maybe nerves or sum- he seems to crumble and be pretty inconsistent, and rides on momentum. I see RW9 as the reliable consistent player, but I think TRK's impact matters much more. When he performs, everyone knows.
@@majesticmo5048 oh, i thought u were seeing the opposite, i do agree with you that the only the un-americans do have good lists, but i will say johnnyboi is the best beside rw9 and kiilerrz, sure kiilerrz was better in swiss but rw9 is better in playoffs which is more important and i also will say that itachi is number 1 then trk511 number 2, then beastmode number 3. g2 were the champions because they are better as a team not because of beastmode individual impact.
I want to like bates but I've ended up hating him. He's either a total moron or engagement farming to another level. Because his takes are so outlandish the entire video is completely derailed to talking about him, and I've come to the conclusion over time that he's just an attention seeker. 2 falcon players outside the top 10 is just ridiculous. They were immense and ultimately just ran out of steam from so many high pressure games consecutively. It's the craziest thing he's ever done imo and just cements my dim view of his contribution overall. Ugh.
@@howardjennings1166 Bates the GOAT, he makes for such good content and really makes the videos have conversation to it. I think he always brings some humor to what could be a super analytical boring type of rating list otherwise.
@@pythin2040 I don't think if bates was there it would be super boring at all. I've watched Jonny & CJ for years and they always make me smile. Also, Bates doesn't bring conversation, he brings frustration. A group of casters will never struggle for conversation.
I must be watching different Vitality games bc Radosin gets so much hate. But i never i mean never see Alpha54 doing anything. Its always Radosin killing it when they win Tourneys. Thats not like oh when Radosin finally steps up they win bc I never feel like Alpha steps up. Zen and Rado play well they get to finals.
He don’t deserve the hate, but yee it’s fact, when he plays top tier they always win but super inconsistent, and alpha kinda getting washed he super neutral atm, but I believe it was that HONEYMOON FAZE went to hard they chasing the dragon and won’t be the same 😅
I feel sorry for Rado. He is still a world champ and he wasn't carried at worlds. He has the same issue someone like Itachi had. Doesn't play a flashy mechanical game and had superstar team mates that overshadow him. It took Itachi so long to finally deserve respect. I hope Rado proves the same.
No person in the world gets me as mad as tbates gets me in these top 25 rankings I'm literally shouting at him in my car about how shit his logic is. And when he has a half decent point you don't even care cause it's sandwiched between the most hypocritical sentences you've ever heard. Love his content elsewhere but my god
@@_tim. I don't know if it's still entertaining. He's attention seeking and derails an otherwise productive discussion. It's fine occasionally but he always does this and over time his face now just annoys me. Sitting here with my head in my hands over those falcons placements. ugh.
people in chat complaining about Tbates are so obnoxious. He's an entertainer, don't take it too seriously. He probably realizes he's wrong on a couple of these picks, he's sticking to his guns because that's better content. Do you want him to say "you're right guys" and go silent every time he gets pushback??? Do you want everyone to agree on everything for 2 hours?
People find it annoying because it's like banging your head against a wall. He's *obviously* wrong, it's like he hasn't even watched the event. He refuses to engage in any debate - it's impossible to take him seriously. It's not entertaining, or 'better content'. It's just nonsense.
Tbates rating Falcons that lowly just indicates that they were nervous and played a poor series in the final but he also says that is not what happened lmaooooooo. How are they not rated higher than this if they did play well in the final?
@@zeitz4473 and 1 bo7 hurts them that bad? They destroyed them in the final, but g2 still are 4 and 4 against falcons this major so you cant say one is better than the other.
Daz’s take about top 24 all being top 8 team members is so bull. It’s possible, as Johnny said, but in practice that’s almost never the case and you can’t use top 8 as the sole argument for a player make top 24.
Honestly Daz's list got a lot of shit for it, which I agree with, but other than that, his list is pretty decent. Everybody that has these players has them low anyway (except Bates crazy logic), so it's not too far off. Move Oski up a few spots and add Brad, Daz might have the best list imo.
I swear if Jonny doesnt have Beastmode atleast in the top 2, I‘m gonna throw hands… Edit: well well well, nice to see from our most loved scottish caster 🥰
The concept that RLCS is equivalent to the NBA is true in some regards, but very off in terms in player rankings. In the NBA, there's one ball, and the division of that ball is voluntarily placed in the star player's hands because they will create more advantageous plays. In Rocket League, the possession is split amongst 3 players close to equally. Therefore, when one player underperforms or is significantly worse than his teammates, it tanks the whole team. In the same sentiment, one NBA player can absolutely carry a team's offense to wins; in RLCS, that is extremely hard to do. Therefore, when teams perform well, the entire roster should be credited with the success, not just "the best player".
@@Bigbagofgamer Actually good point to bring up Nwpo. When star players crush lower competition like Nwpo did in Major 1, but then got shut down by higher level competition, it doesn't feel justified to rate them well. Nwpo, on the other hand, dominated even when his team lost 1-3 to GM8, and continued to crush in Major 1. That is a performance that outranks the team, for sure.
In the NBA, one player carrying the team offensively to wins is extremely difficult to do as well. The only player who could do that against top teams was Lebron James. Every other player had to have some help in order to win at the highest level. Same thing with rocket league
@@MrCtwhatnah the only person who could do that was Kobe lol, lebron didn't put up enough high point games for that to be true, he definitely needed SOME help. Kobe dropped 60s because he was given the ball every play lol (not saying he was better, but lebron definitely is a passer)
@@MrCtwhat We've countless offensively skilled players successfully run an offense by themselves, and not just Lebron. Luka (pre-Kyrie), Harden on the Rockets, Donovan on the Jazz, Lilliard on the Blazers. These teams offensively relied on one player because mathematically, they generate the most points per possession. I'm not saying these players won the title every year, but this argument demonstrates that we value these star usage players more than their teammates because of what they can do with the ball. In Rocket League, with the division of the ball being so even, it's more of a team collab.
How many this season tho? Lmfao. You could do that with any dominant team of any year. How many world championship have cloud 9 won this year and the year c9 won combined🤯🤯🤯 more than vitality. C9 better than vitality this year! The team that doesn’t exist! Amazing.
@@aronianspigonian8589 that’s a bad point considering falcons 3-0’d them in Swiss, it’s easy to look back and say that they should’ve gone for G2 but in reality most people routing for G2 including myself were nervous going into that match, falcons beat m8s the former major champs going into that match up and G2 beat a team that placed top 8 in Copenhagen overall falcons were looking to take it.
Having trk and kiileerrz over Daniel and atomic is crazy. I’m sorry, but Daniel outplayed all 3 falcons this LAN, beast mode was amazing but Daniel was almost as good just in a less flashy role. The whole grand finals Daniel was outplayed falcons the entire time, literally outplaying
Tbh bates is so right about Johnny especially but everyone else. They always do these individuals players list but go base off of a team proformance that defeats the whole purpose of a top 25 player list all together lol. I think a better comparison than nba is gaming term for them. Take the best csgo player put him on a team with scrubs against all pros. He statically does better than anyone on the field but lose 9 out of 9 games. Johnny would say he doesn't deserve to be on a list... lol this should be called top 25 players base on team placement list if anything
I tend to agree. It feels like influencers of RL scene wants to boost the value of players due to wins for narrative reasons, but it's a huge part of the win who plays with who. The "no. 1" player might in reality not be on a team that makes them competative to win. But it's so easy to bring up team victories and statistics, meanwhile anyone who's played RL a while knows that your wins and stats will tank if your mates are not at your level. Also the opponent is a huge factor. A strong opponent will also tank your stats, whereas weak opponents might boost your stats.
But take any team esport and you can't have success without a team that doesn't gel. Individual performance is completely irrelevant if the team never achieves success. Team performance HAS to be important because there's a skill in picking the right team mates & working together with them to improve yourself & them. A player can be rated the best in the world but if they never make a deep run because the team doesn't work how can you possibly rate them highly compared to people playing a ton more games and winning?
@@howardjennings1166 because its not ranked situation, where you get a sufficient pool of varied teams, and so you eliminate the "Luck factor" of team compositions. Meanwhile pro teams, how many teams do they get to try out during their career? There's a huge likelyhood that some pros will never get the chance to play with people of their own caliber. It's a question of probability. It's just unlikely that team wins translates to individual skill anywhere near how it works in ranked with a large sample pool.
Hate to say it but Bates made more and more sense towards the end. Just because Gentle8s and Falcons played Faster doesn’t mean anything. Anyone who plays knows the chase type that freak out when you slow the game down. Poor take from ole Jonny rocket
I just want to say I agree with the Radosin - Draymond Green comparison. Really good player that plays an underrated role on his team. Doesn’t usually make the highlight plays but his team wouldn’t be successful without him
How can you not see that Seiiko and Trk completely smurfed this competition? These 2 are obviously top 5 or top 3, watch the Falcons vs M8 series again and even quarters wtf
GenG is really underrated by pretty much all of them. I mean, they're the only team in the entire season to have been knocked out of the tournament by a grand finalist twice, even falcons can't say that and they were in a grand final themselves (ofc g2 and m8 have only lost to grand finalists as well but having them win pretty much puts them ahead by default)
It’s so crazy how Johnny can’t realize his own bias in relation to EU vs NA. G2 has literally adopted that old BDS playstyle where MM now BM would challenge at awkward angles, Seikoo now Daniel would play solid defense and slow the play down to allow the rest of the team to boost up and reset the possession and extra now Atomic controlling the midfield and facilitating. When BDS did it, it was suffocating to the opponent and BDS was forcing their opponent to play bad because they were seeing ghosts. Now when G2 does the same thing, it’s sloppy play and the other team is just playing bad.
Bates is usually polarising in a funny good way but atp he’s ruining the lists by just making outrageous takes every time, putting rw9 and TRK below OSKI feels forced and he’s just tryna make noise
You cannot put both Trk and Rw9 at 12 and 13 when they only had one bad series all lan and that was in the grand final against a team they trounced in swiss. G2 was the best team overall, but saying 2/3 Falcons' players weren't even top 10 players does nothing but devalue G2's major win. Such a horrendous take as usual from Bates.
@@thenayancat8802I think his point was SSG made top 8 because of LJ. Especially since they played Falcons so close…honestly, TeBates mindset is correct. Individual performances can be better than a team of all super solid players, but then he puts Comm at 17 and where is Drali??? It’s just sad.
@@christopherpartridge581 He also used Falcons' placement to justify placing their players so low. His reasoning was literally "because I said so" lmao
it's always hard for me to watch these lmao. CJ is by far the most entertaining, always really funny but still super reasonable and a good list. tbates is funny but I find it goes on too long, and idk why but I've always disliked johnny, I feel like he holds his opinion super high but sometimes it feels like he's trolling while giving 0 clue that he is. yumi and daz are chill, but for me yumi can take this too series sometimes haha especially when bates goes on a tangent
I think GenG and vitality were the most disappointing teams this lan aside from oxg. Although vitality went 3-0 in swiss they never really looked like a team who would win the tournament. and geng are just way slower than they should be with the 3 players they have
Falcons couldn’t perform to their expected level when G2 was scooping up all their boost the entire series. Falcons without boost play bad and G2 forced that issue. That’s about it
Daz is wrong about putting every top 8 team in top 24. And Bates is completely right. Two really good players can carry a below average to top 8 easily.
I love how Johnny calls tbates ridiculous for saying the same thing he’s saying just the opposite. Johnny claims falcons played “badly” in the grand finals, and then doesn’t want to admit that maybe just maybe G2 played badly in Swiss lol. The truth is that both teams peaked at different times, but it’s pretty clear falcons played much better in the grand final than G2 did in Swiss, but G2 was on a different level when it mattered most. Falcons peak is still probably close to G2s, but it’s still not clear which peak is higher
2:09:45 it's an interesting take on "best 3 players" on this list put together is basically the ideal team in the world? Because by this definition the various lists here are colored in a way different light.
Love these. Honestly thought these list would be better being post major. Yumi community & TBates dropped the ball. Daz butchered the top. Johnny can we get a reason you thought trk did better than Killerz? Curious
it's funny how they just don't get the fundamentals of how tbates thinks about the list. He rates players based on expectations and individual performance, not the team's performance, which is a huge huge difference. A single player could be performing well over expectations and the other 2 teammates could be throwing. That one player could be considered the best performing player at the LAN even though their team went 0-3. Think about Zen being on Team Mobula and going 0-3. Zen would probably be in most peoples top 5 because of individual performance especially if he exceeded expectations. So just look at Tbates list and say did this player perform above, at, or below expectations and it will look a lot more clear. edit: I also love how johnny is arguing that falcons played bad in the finals against g2, but this is the same guy that thought g2 didn't play bad against bds at worlds in fort worth. imo falcons played bad and g2 played bad.
Well sure Bates has some decent logic sometimes, but that only makes FirstKiller who didn’t look special being so high more shocking. And Oski being so high because he looked competent in a useless team is not enough to justify being so high either
@@enceofthewind4145tbf FK was p much single handedly keeping them in the series most games lol. Appjack and chronic were not playing good and they knew it
I know Tbates is known for his wild opinions, but he actually makes really good points. You can agree or disagree with his conclusions, but when guys like Daz don't even care to listen to Bates' arguments, because they always need to disagree with him, it annoys me.
1:42:20 I honestly agree with bates here because it’s obvious everyone’s trying to use the falcons success throughout the tournament as their main argument, but lj had more of a dominant performance when it came to just stacking PLAYER performances against each other. Also if you do watch basketball you’ll realize whenever bates compared it to the nba he was in fact spitting.
Daz is right. Daniel was incredible at defending and controlling the ball to quickly counter attack. People are underrating him just because he wasn't scoring goals left and right, but he was dominant. I've got him 2nd as well.
I dont understand why johnny was yapping about bates putting LJ individually above falcons yet zen was above all of furia on his list, johnny boi copium, think i def agree more with CJCJs list
Definitely don't agree with the Tbates list, but the question Johnny asks at 2:00:50 roughly kinda proves the point on either side right? If you're saying the G2 members didn't have to "outplay" Falcons for many of the goals because Falcons made mistakes, you can't say they were playing better if they didn't require forced errors to be made.
How is it in the video you couldn't believe that bates had LJ so high but 5mintues later say LJ was top 3 coming out of Swiss and loses 1 game while still playing at a high level couldn't be that high 😂😂😂
MENA underrate is still insane lol what do they have to do to finally get recognision 😂 They slapped the #1 and #2 EU team , #1#2#3 NA team and only lost in the finals yet they still get ranked like this , not even gonna get into this further tbh , the fact that Zen after a pretty bad Major still get all the glaze says enough
When did they "slap" EU No. 1 and No. 2??? And no, Zen didn't play badly in this major, rado and alpha on the other hand were quite inconsistent and rado was not good during the match against Furia.
Bates when talking about PWR players: "Rocket League is a team game, it's about the team unit." Bates when talking about Comm: "I'm basing my list off the individual play, not how far the team goes."
knew it was over when i saw TRK at 13th
Falcons still underrated how????
I want to like bates but I've ended up hating him. He's either a total moron or engagement farming to another level. Because his takes are so outlandish the entire video is completely derailed to talking about him, and I've come to the conclusion over time that he's just an attention seeker. 2 falcon players outside the top 10 is just ridiculous. They were immense and ultimately just ran out of steam from so many high pressure games consecutively. It's the craziest thing he's ever done imo and just cements my dim view of his contribution overall. Ugh.
Tbates argument for putting drali so low was that he did well in Swiss but bad in bracket which is fair but then he put comm 4 places above him lmaoooo
The goalpost moving is next level, get this man working as a groundskeeper in the Etihad
Just ignore his lists. It's just trolling at this point
@@thenayancat8802 yh this was a generational howler from bates lmao
Well comm didn't make top 8 to play bad on Saturday. 😂😂😂
Literally two people had Drali lower was he really low??
After watch Bates defend this list, I truly want him as my lawyer
😂
i got in a police chase last night, you think he will take me as a client? haha
Bro fr
@@ILFlowers09 yeah bro i got a ticket for doing 196 and running. shit is crazy but its a wake up call and we tryna fight it in court.
@@vibin7396 gl man
I almost never agree with Johnny but this has to be one of his best lists. I also like how refreshing Bates can be but this is just offensive to the Falcons roster. Bates has more W takes than people realize, but for every W take he spouts like 20 L takes that drown them out.
Do you happen to be from NA?
@mikkilevin do you happen to be unintelligent, hairless, and wear sunscreen to protect urself from ur monitor light
@@mikkilevin do you happen to be from EU?
Do you happen to be from SAM?
@@mikkilevinDo you happen to have 3 spare hours?
I'm always perplexed about the Trk511 ratings. He is clearly the outstanding player on Falcons, not because he's flashy, but because he's been significantly the most impactful player on the pitch. His field control dictates the entire flow of the game, and his midfield decision-making sparks the offense and pressure for Falcons. People are always enamored with Rw9's defense or Kiileerrz's offense, but it's Trk511 consistently crushing challenges and shutting down clears while also playing passes to his team that give Falcons that deadly feel. He's also been insanely clutch for this team through two years now.
Tbh I support Falcons cos I really like the twins but this major really made me realise that Trk is the backbone of the team
@@edgeribble I encourage you to watch School of RL's TRK breakdown. It's a great watch (if you haven't already seen it)
Calling him the singularly outstanding player is unfair. RW9 is consistent no matter what, and his defense and offensive passing is incredible. Killeerz is almost undeniably a top 5 offensive shooter and overall player in the world currently. TRK is inconsistent compared to both, and his midfield play can be nearly matched by RW9. When he’s more consistent make the argument that he’s the best
@@enceofthewind4145 To be honest, I'm not sure what you're watching. I don't want to sound as though I'm bad-mouthing the twins, but they are shockingly consistent under-performers when the competition intensity rises. Trk511 has been the only player to step up in Major 1 and Major 2 during their most difficult series' - compared to Kiileerz and Rw9 who actually has a massive statistical drop offs from Swiss to Playoffs (1.3 --> 0.8, 1.27 --> 0.75 respectively). Saying Trk is inconsistent is ridiculous; he's the only player who actually improves his gameplay when the competition needs him to step up.
in my view, TRK is the best however idk what it is - maybe nerves or sum- he seems to crumble and be pretty inconsistent, and rides on momentum. I see RW9 as the reliable consistent player, but I think TRK's impact matters much more. When he performs, everyone knows.
Never find myself disagreeing too much with cj's lists (aside from the one time he put appjack outside top 25 and then he won the major)
Literally the only list that makes sense
out of all lists here, you talk about cj? wtf
@@konyadake1602yes, him and yumi have the best lists
@@majesticmo5048 oh, i thought u were seeing the opposite, i do agree with you that the only the un-americans do have good lists, but i will say johnnyboi is the best beside rw9 and kiilerrz, sure kiilerrz was better in swiss but rw9 is better in playoffs which is more important and i also will say that itachi is number 1 then trk511 number 2, then beastmode number 3. g2 were the champions because they are better as a team not because of beastmode individual impact.
@@konyadake1602Johnny's list is decent, but he has hockser below Chicago and jack below chronic which I think is crazy
The roast of VKsailen at the beginning is just gold.
Fully deserved lmao I’m so happy he’s getting this much backlash
If he doesn't come back to EU I'll be surprised
I must have missed this, what happen with VKsailen?
@@Ben-ik2bb he is on Mobula which is all EU players and they played in SSA from EU and took their Major spot
@@Ben-ik2bbmoved to SSA to far worse region then goes and puts up the worst ever LAN performance.
I think if Tbates was not in the video, it would have been 15 minutes long😂.
I want to like bates but I've ended up hating him. He's either a total moron or engagement farming to another level. Because his takes are so outlandish the entire video is completely derailed to talking about him, and I've come to the conclusion over time that he's just an attention seeker. 2 falcon players outside the top 10 is just ridiculous. They were immense and ultimately just ran out of steam from so many high pressure games consecutively. It's the craziest thing he's ever done imo and just cements my dim view of his contribution overall. Ugh.
@@howardjennings1166 Bates the GOAT, he makes for such good content and really makes the videos have conversation to it. I think he always brings some humor to what could be a super analytical boring type of rating list otherwise.
@@pythin2040 I don't think if bates was there it would be super boring at all. I've watched Jonny & CJ for years and they always make me smile. Also, Bates doesn't bring conversation, he brings frustration. A group of casters will never struggle for conversation.
@@howardjennings1166 extremely L take ngl.
@@somerandomchad469 why?
2:57 “he should be on some list” lmao this statement says SO much more than what was intended I think 💀
Why does yumi lowkey look like the handsome filter
omg ur right
Rocket league was actually dragging him down. He glowed you for sure!
You guys made my day!
@@yumicheeseman its HIM
he is becoming yumibroccoliandgrilledchickenman
I must be watching different Vitality games bc Radosin gets so much hate. But i never i mean never see Alpha54 doing anything. Its always Radosin killing it when they win Tourneys. Thats not like oh when Radosin finally steps up they win bc I never feel like Alpha steps up. Zen and Rado play well they get to finals.
He don’t deserve the hate, but yee it’s fact, when he plays top tier they always win but super inconsistent, and alpha kinda getting washed he super neutral atm, but I believe it was that HONEYMOON FAZE went to hard they chasing the dragon and won’t be the same 😅
I disagree, alpha always own the ceiling,
He always have exceptional performance in the finals..
Dude, Alpha54 doesn't make horrendous whiffs and insane own goals, you just can't compare both of them
Alpha54 literally passed to drufinho and own goaled in their last game against furia to get eliminated.
I feel sorry for Rado. He is still a world champ and he wasn't carried at worlds. He has the same issue someone like Itachi had. Doesn't play a flashy mechanical game and had superstar team mates that overshadow him. It took Itachi so long to finally deserve respect. I hope Rado proves the same.
I’m gonna say it, as an NA fan, Johnny had the best list.
they don't understand how important trk's game sense is
No person in the world gets me as mad as tbates gets me in these top 25 rankings I'm literally shouting at him in my car about how shit his logic is. And when he has a half decent point you don't even care cause it's sandwiched between the most hypocritical sentences you've ever heard.
Love his content elsewhere but my god
that’s the reason they bring him on, it’s entertaining even if the takes are terrible lol
that's just the classic Bates experience. 1 W take, 10 L takes (but he doesn't see it)
@@_tim. I don't know if it's still entertaining. He's attention seeking and derails an otherwise productive discussion. It's fine occasionally but he always does this and over time his face now just annoys me. Sitting here with my head in my hands over those falcons placements. ugh.
people in chat complaining about Tbates are so obnoxious. He's an entertainer, don't take it too seriously. He probably realizes he's wrong on a couple of these picks, he's sticking to his guns because that's better content. Do you want him to say "you're right guys" and go silent every time he gets pushback??? Do you want everyone to agree on everything for 2 hours?
Then it would just be 10 minutes, not 2 hours :P
Its too much, like he could use a 60% modifier for annoyance fr
@@Hossdeluxyou could use a 100% reduction because t bates is hilarious
They love bates but hate johnny it makes no sense they both do the same thing
People find it annoying because it's like banging your head against a wall. He's *obviously* wrong, it's like he hasn't even watched the event. He refuses to engage in any debate - it's impossible to take him seriously. It's not entertaining, or 'better content'. It's just nonsense.
I've been saying Itachi is underrated since KC won that major
Tbates rating Falcons that lowly just indicates that they were nervous and played a poor series in the final but he also says that is not what happened lmaooooooo. How are they not rated higher than this if they did play well in the final?
Good point
I mean you have to play well to place high. That just makes sense. That being said. Tbates underrated falcons
@@zeitz4473they beat top 3 na and top 2 eu? Whats not playing well about that i dont get it plus falcons and g2 were 4 games to 4 this major
@@regansimpson3196 im strictly talking about the final. They were undoubtedly the beat team until the final
@@zeitz4473 and 1 bo7 hurts them that bad? They destroyed them in the final, but g2 still are 4 and 4 against falcons this major so you cant say one is better than the other.
Daz’s take about top 24 all being top 8 team members is so bull. It’s possible, as Johnny said, but in practice that’s almost never the case and you can’t use top 8 as the sole argument for a player make top 24.
Honestly Daz's list got a lot of shit for it, which I agree with, but other than that, his list is pretty decent. Everybody that has these players has them low anyway (except Bates crazy logic), so it's not too far off. Move Oski up a few spots and add Brad, Daz might have the best list imo.
I swear if Jonny doesnt have Beastmode atleast in the top 2, I‘m gonna throw hands…
Edit: well well well, nice to see from our most loved scottish caster 🥰
I'm just starting the video but tempted to skip ahead, lol.
Bro gonna have him at 3-5
Hahahaters
this just tells me yall hate and know nothing bout johnny
no faith damn
The concept that RLCS is equivalent to the NBA is true in some regards, but very off in terms in player rankings. In the NBA, there's one ball, and the division of that ball is voluntarily placed in the star player's hands because they will create more advantageous plays. In Rocket League, the possession is split amongst 3 players close to equally. Therefore, when one player underperforms or is significantly worse than his teammates, it tanks the whole team. In the same sentiment, one NBA player can absolutely carry a team's offense to wins; in RLCS, that is extremely hard to do. Therefore, when teams perform well, the entire roster should be credited with the success, not just "the best player".
nwpo and rule one i feel could be an exception, but i agree
@@Bigbagofgamer Actually good point to bring up Nwpo. When star players crush lower competition like Nwpo did in Major 1, but then got shut down by higher level competition, it doesn't feel justified to rate them well. Nwpo, on the other hand, dominated even when his team lost 1-3 to GM8, and continued to crush in Major 1. That is a performance that outranks the team, for sure.
In the NBA, one player carrying the team offensively to wins is extremely difficult to do as well. The only player who could do that against top teams was Lebron James. Every other player had to have some help in order to win at the highest level. Same thing with rocket league
@@MrCtwhatnah the only person who could do that was Kobe lol, lebron didn't put up enough high point games for that to be true, he definitely needed SOME help. Kobe dropped 60s because he was given the ball every play lol (not saying he was better, but lebron definitely is a passer)
@@MrCtwhat We've countless offensively skilled players successfully run an offense by themselves, and not just Lebron. Luka (pre-Kyrie), Harden on the Rockets, Donovan on the Jazz, Lilliard on the Blazers. These teams offensively relied on one player because mathematically, they generate the most points per possession. I'm not saying these players won the title every year, but this argument demonstrates that we value these star usage players more than their teammates because of what they can do with the ball. In Rocket League, with the division of the ball being so even, it's more of a team collab.
Johnny's mental gymnastics to avoid admitting G2 flat out outplayed Falcons is impressive
My top 25:
1 Beastmode
2 TRK511
3 Itachi
4 Daniel
5 Yan
6 Killeeerz
7 Zen
8 RW9
9 Lj
10 Atomic
11 Seiko
12 Firstkiller
13 Lostt
14 Juicy
15 Dralii
16 Drufinho
17 Alpha54
18 Monkey M00N
19 Chronic
20 Chicago
21 Oski
22 Bannanahead
23 ApparentlyJack
24 Radosin
25 Hockser
pretty respectable list
Pretty good list, however i do think that Zen and Lj are too low
I have a couple of differences but overall respectable.
Just some nitpicks here and there but overall the best list ive seen so far
Players that have won more than 1 rlcs lan in this and last season combined:
Zen/Rado/Alpha vitality roster
Itachi
Na could never
atomic?
@@nah9813 took him 3 years bro do better these guys done 2 in a year
@@regansimpson3196mena 2nd > eu 1
How many this season tho? Lmfao. You could do that with any dominant team of any year. How many world championship have cloud 9 won this year and the year c9 won combined🤯🤯🤯 more than vitality. C9 better than vitality this year! The team that doesn’t exist! Amazing.
Johnny u cooking up Salt Mine 4?
Tbates relishing the one time g2 have won in 2 years praising himself the messiah
I mean G2 has been the most consistent team the whole season yet he was the only person who picked them to win the lan lol , makes sense
@@rahqoun9735he’s stood with G2 all season
@@robwestb02doesnt really matter. The point is that more should back g2
@@aronianspigonian8589 that’s a bad point considering falcons 3-0’d them in Swiss, it’s easy to look back and say that they should’ve gone for G2 but in reality most people routing for G2 including myself were nervous going into that match, falcons beat m8s the former major champs going into that match up and G2 beat a team that placed top 8 in Copenhagen overall falcons were looking to take it.
G2 won and yet Tbates managed to make an even worse list
Having trk and kiileerrz over Daniel and atomic is crazy. I’m sorry, but Daniel outplayed all 3 falcons this LAN, beast mode was amazing but Daniel was almost as good just in a less flashy role. The whole grand finals Daniel was outplayed falcons the entire time, literally outplaying
If they don't have CJCJ at #1...
Tbh bates is so right about Johnny especially but everyone else. They always do these individuals players list but go base off of a team proformance that defeats the whole purpose of a top 25 player list all together lol.
I think a better comparison than nba is gaming term for them.
Take the best csgo player put him on a team with scrubs against all pros. He statically does better than anyone on the field but lose 9 out of 9 games. Johnny would say he doesn't deserve to be on a list... lol this should be called top 25 players base on team placement list if anything
I tend to agree. It feels like influencers of RL scene wants to boost the value of players due to wins for narrative reasons, but it's a huge part of the win who plays with who. The "no. 1" player might in reality not be on a team that makes them competative to win. But it's so easy to bring up team victories and statistics, meanwhile anyone who's played RL a while knows that your wins and stats will tank if your mates are not at your level.
Also the opponent is a huge factor. A strong opponent will also tank your stats, whereas weak opponents might boost your stats.
But take any team esport and you can't have success without a team that doesn't gel. Individual performance is completely irrelevant if the team never achieves success. Team performance HAS to be important because there's a skill in picking the right team mates & working together with them to improve yourself & them. A player can be rated the best in the world but if they never make a deep run because the team doesn't work how can you possibly rate them highly compared to people playing a ton more games and winning?
@@howardjennings1166 because its not ranked situation, where you get a sufficient pool of varied teams, and so you eliminate the "Luck factor" of team compositions. Meanwhile pro teams, how many teams do they get to try out during their career? There's a huge likelyhood that some pros will never get the chance to play with people of their own caliber. It's a question of probability. It's just unlikely that team wins translates to individual skill anywhere near how it works in ranked with a large sample pool.
Would love to see Greybeard on here for some more international representation!
Vouch
49:43 rare daz W
i cant keep defending tbates man, he has officially lost it
what happened to Roll Dizz??
Hate to say it but Bates made more and more sense towards the end. Just because Gentle8s and Falcons played Faster doesn’t mean anything. Anyone who plays knows the chase type that freak out when you slow the game down. Poor take from ole Jonny rocket
Exactly. Same reason that OG reverse swept Twisted Minds. Slowed the game down dramatically and made TM have to play slower and more awkward
I love how smug Daz looks whenever somebody challenges Tbates 😂
I just want to say I agree with the Radosin - Draymond Green comparison. Really good player that plays an underrated role on his team. Doesn’t usually make the highlight plays but his team wouldn’t be successful without him
Atomic was way better than TRk lol what the hell we talking about. Atomic a 2 or 3 time LAN winner.
How can you not see that Seiiko and Trk completely smurfed this competition? These 2 are obviously top 5 or top 3, watch the Falcons vs M8 series again and even quarters wtf
Bates being a stats guy is so funny for LJ when he was a film guy to bring up Firstkiller since his teammates ApparentlySucked
GenG is really underrated by pretty much all of them. I mean, they're the only team in the entire season to have been knocked out of the tournament by a grand finalist twice, even falcons can't say that and they were in a grand final themselves (ofc g2 and m8 have only lost to grand finalists as well but having them win pretty much puts them ahead by default)
They had pretty bad luck but you can't fault people for not rating them until they get good results like top 4 or finals.
They had pretty bad luck but you can't fault people for not rating them until they get good results like top 4 or finals.
@@bawlzack7877BDS also finished top 8 in both majors and are still rated higher
It’s so crazy how Johnny can’t realize his own bias in relation to EU vs NA. G2 has literally adopted that old BDS playstyle where MM now BM would challenge at awkward angles, Seikoo now Daniel would play solid defense and slow the play down to allow the rest of the team to boost up and reset the possession and extra now Atomic controlling the midfield and facilitating. When BDS did it, it was suffocating to the opponent and BDS was forcing their opponent to play bad because they were seeing ghosts. Now when G2 does the same thing, it’s sloppy play and the other team is just playing bad.
Bates is usually polarising in a funny good way but atp he’s ruining the lists by just making outrageous takes every time, putting rw9 and TRK below OSKI feels forced and he’s just tryna make noise
Bates is lowkey spittin. I understand what he's saying
Yes he's spitting. He's not spitting fax tho it's just straight saliva...
Yummi’s beard looks fake. That thing is crazy strong 💪
they need to have like a 5 minute timer per player lmao, these videos keep getting longer I swear
You cannot put both Trk and Rw9 at 12 and 13 when they only had one bad series all lan and that was in the grand final against a team they trounced in swiss. G2 was the best team overall, but saying 2/3 Falcons' players weren't even top 10 players does nothing but devalue G2's major win. Such a horrendous take as usual from Bates.
All the copium from all the G2 haters in these comments is actually hilarious
I actually agree with Bates perspective that an individual players performance is completely separate from their teams placement
@@Jacobnotlit_RL do you also agree with Bates that an individual players performance is dependent on their team's placement?
agreed
@@thenayancat8802I think his point was SSG made top 8 because of LJ. Especially since they played Falcons so close…honestly, TeBates mindset is correct. Individual performances can be better than a team of all super solid players, but then he puts Comm at 17 and where is Drali??? It’s just sad.
@@christopherpartridge581yei agree with him with the lj argument but heneeded to put killerz at 4th place and comm shouldnt be there
@@christopherpartridge581 He also used Falcons' placement to justify placing their players so low. His reasoning was literally "because I said so" lmao
it's always hard for me to watch these lmao. CJ is by far the most entertaining, always really funny but still super reasonable and a good list. tbates is funny but I find it goes on too long, and idk why but I've always disliked johnny, I feel like he holds his opinion super high but sometimes it feels like he's trolling while giving 0 clue that he is. yumi and daz are chill, but for me yumi can take this too series sometimes haha especially when bates goes on a tangent
Bro Yumi needs to commentate more I loved him in the Furia vs Moist
can we get rid of Bates next time? or can bro actually stop making these MEME lists?
I think GenG and vitality were the most disappointing teams this lan aside from oxg. Although vitality went 3-0 in swiss they never really looked like a team who would win the tournament. and geng are just way slower than they should be with the 3 players they have
Falcons couldn’t perform to their expected level when G2 was scooping up all their boost the entire series. Falcons without boost play bad and G2 forced that issue. That’s about it
Every hating on bates, but he’s looking at the list different than you he’s rating the PLAYERS not the TEAM. Why is it so hard for yall to understand
Daz is wrong about putting every top 8 team in top 24. And Bates is completely right. Two really good players can carry a below average to top 8 easily.
These would be boring without Tbates
I love how Johnny calls tbates ridiculous for saying the same thing he’s saying just the opposite. Johnny claims falcons played “badly” in the grand finals, and then doesn’t want to admit that maybe just maybe G2 played badly in Swiss lol. The truth is that both teams peaked at different times, but it’s pretty clear falcons played much better in the grand final than G2 did in Swiss, but G2 was on a different level when it mattered most. Falcons peak is still probably close to G2s, but it’s still not clear which peak is higher
Does bates purposely have the worst takes ever?
Yumi looking GREAT. Potential weight loss? Killin it
I usually try and defend bates but wow this list was a troll lol😂
Daz's rant @49:00 has to be the highlight for me, LOL
Tbates is delusional af
That’s why I love him
@@OskarSvan 🤦🙄
True
@@OskarSvan ppl like you are the problem
he gotta be rage baiting at his point lol because no way lj is this high and fk is infront of trk rw9 and itachi lol
2:09:45 it's an interesting take on "best 3 players" on this list put together is basically the ideal team in the world? Because by this definition the various lists here are colored in a way different light.
Falcons lost cos they were nervous. Vitality lost coz Rado was sick. Blah blah blah with the excuses
Gee golly it’s gotta be rough being as pompous as Johnny and knowing everything about everything
Tbates is so entertaining but god damn this was a difficult watch even for his standards 😂
Idk he gets cooked even when he's right. He was getting cooked by everyone for LJ take and that wasn't even a bad take
drop yumi holy cow, he has nothing of value to add to discussion and his voice is like nails on a chalkboard
Love these. Honestly thought these list would be better being post major. Yumi community & TBates dropped the ball. Daz butchered the top. Johnny can we get a reason you thought trk did better than Killerz? Curious
Bates is delulu
it's funny how they just don't get the fundamentals of how tbates thinks about the list. He rates players based on expectations and individual performance, not the team's performance, which is a huge huge difference. A single player could be performing well over expectations and the other 2 teammates could be throwing. That one player could be considered the best performing player at the LAN even though their team went 0-3. Think about Zen being on Team Mobula and going 0-3. Zen would probably be in most peoples top 5 because of individual performance especially if he exceeded expectations. So just look at Tbates list and say did this player perform above, at, or below expectations and it will look a lot more clear.
edit: I also love how johnny is arguing that falcons played bad in the finals against g2, but this is the same guy that thought g2 didn't play bad against bds at worlds in fort worth. imo falcons played bad and g2 played bad.
Well sure Bates has some decent logic sometimes, but that only makes FirstKiller who didn’t look special being so high more shocking. And Oski being so high because he looked competent in a useless team is not enough to justify being so high either
@@enceofthewind4145tbf FK was p much single handedly keeping them in the series most games lol. Appjack and chronic were not playing good and they knew it
Lets be honest here, RL esports would be so boring without TBates
Someone should have put an empty spot at 2 to show the gap between bmode and everyone else
The zen glazing is unreal he did jack shit at this event and did not look good once he got to the main stage
I know Tbates is known for his wild opinions, but he actually makes really good points. You can agree or disagree with his conclusions, but when guys like Daz don't even care to listen to Bates' arguments, because they always need to disagree with him, it annoys me.
He doesn't follow his own logic because he changes criteria every argument
maybe bates intentionally makes terrible lists so he has to argue and get lawyer practice
well done boys, absolute class with the introduction
When is Feer vs JohnnyBoi I appjack commentary
1:42:20 I honestly agree with bates here because it’s obvious everyone’s trying to use the falcons success throughout the tournament as their main argument, but lj had more of a dominant performance when it came to just stacking PLAYER performances against each other. Also if you do watch basketball you’ll realize whenever bates compared it to the nba he was in fact spitting.
Daz is right. Daniel was incredible at defending and controlling the ball to quickly counter attack. People are underrating him just because he wasn't scoring goals left and right, but he was dominant. I've got him 2nd as well.
The friends along the way lol cjcj more like enemies along the way
Bates "He can't play defense!"
Also Bates *Puts FK above all of Falcons*
You ever watch FK play defense? It's not great 😂
So these guys didnt put Seiiko, Trk and Yan in the top 5, what are they smoking before making these rankings?
I dont understand why johnny was yapping about bates putting LJ individually above falcons yet zen was above all of furia on his list, johnny boi copium, think i def agree more with CJCJs list
huge bates fan but bro genuinely upset me this time with this list
Yes! I can finally watch this with no ads! ... ah wait 😅
Tbates putting two falcons players under top 10 actually makes G2’s performance less impressive
Definitely don't agree with the Tbates list, but the question Johnny asks at 2:00:50 roughly kinda proves the point on either side right? If you're saying the G2 members didn't have to "outplay" Falcons for many of the goals because Falcons made mistakes, you can't say they were playing better if they didn't require forced errors to be made.
Tbates gets paid to be an RLCS analyst and he doesn't even watch the matches that aren't G2. absolute fraud.
How is it in the video you couldn't believe that bates had LJ so high but 5mintues later say LJ was top 3 coming out of Swiss and loses 1 game while still playing at a high level couldn't be that high 😂😂😂
okay, i used to be a tbates stan. Now im a daddy cj stan
Tbates was right in the lj argument the whole time tho but killeerz shouldve been 1 place lower then lj and his argument wouldve been perfect
i missed it so much lmao
I've been a G2 fan since season 7 when they went to the finals. I do not claim bates with his takes lmaoo
this is definitely bates' worst list ever lmao
If there was a bates breakdown breakdown stream please upload it to RUclips! 😂
Bates head wrap on too tight wtf is that list 😂
MENA underrate is still insane lol what do they have to do to finally get recognision 😂 They slapped the #1 and #2 EU team , #1#2#3 NA team and only lost in the finals yet they still get ranked like this , not even gonna get into this further tbh , the fact that Zen after a pretty bad Major still get all the glaze says enough
When did they "slap" EU No. 1 and No. 2??? And no, Zen didn't play badly in this major, rado and alpha on the other hand were quite inconsistent and rado was not good during the match against Furia.
Bates when talking about PWR players: "Rocket League is a team game, it's about the team unit." Bates when talking about Comm: "I'm basing my list off the individual play, not how far the team goes."
Tbf power and its players are absolute rubbish
OCE as orange is criminal. Purple/Cyan is the color for them.
they still hating on g2 thats just crazy
top 25 Landon players or London players?