I really enjoy your videos. I am the type of person that has to do extensive research before committing to anything and your videos have been a life saver. I trust your opinion and reviews. Your knowledge and videos are much appreciated!
Hey Kyle! I just wanna say that I appreciate that you're not sanctimonious about cloned products, or at least that you keep that part of your opinion to yourself for the sake of accommodating the interests of the consumer. I find that most people, in any hobby, that openly preach against cloned products don't realize just how much their moralizing actually serves to gatekeep against more people getting into the hobby. A person who appreciates the art, engineering, and history of the original product will be willing to spend for it. Whereas a person who knowingly buys the clone, aware of what compromises it has because they were informed properly about it thanks to helpful people like you, were never likely going to spend for the original in the first place anyway. Lowering the price of entry into the hobby is important, and that's something that's often neglected by so many in the community just because they're already waist-deep into the rabbit hole.
If I were to be buying either of these two grinders and had both in my cart, I would buy the lagom mini. Backup, what the heck, available in September. That would be enough to sway me away from the Lagom.
your comment on the notched grind setting on the SPTK-38G is technically correct, however its with noting that you can set the grinder to half setting (i.e) not clicking into a slot giving you 120 settings rather than 60
Despite the possibility of flak for featuring a clone product, much respect for making such a video. Obviously if you can afford to, it’s best to support the original creators but as pointed out by people in the comments, sometimes brands overprice their goods, sometimes people need to save money because yes they want a good product but maybe they just can’t afford that right now. To anyone who says that ‘no you should only buy the originals’ that’s coming from a point of privilege (arguably not exceptionally so, but it’s still there) where you can be okay with the differential. Also, there’s an issue of availability sometimes. Some products are available in some markets but not others while the clones may be more widely available or available in the markets the original isn’t. Just generalizing and saying ‘all clones are bad’ ignores all these and usually comes from a point of privilege that doesn’t necessarily consider why a clone might exist outside of just trying to rip off another company. Not saying that isn’t sometimes the case just saying that it’s a possibility EDIT: Privilege is not bad. But often it’s good to acknowledge that it exists, especially when pushing value beliefs and statements
I agree to an extent - for example if comparing a $1500 Option-O Lagom P64 to a $3-400 DF64 which also *ahem* “borrows” some design cues. In a case like that telling everyone buy a P64 instead is ridiculous, because we’re talking about 4x the price point and into a category well outside what a lot of people can reasonably afford for a home grinder. But in this case I have more ethical issues with it because the price points are so similar - we’re talking $295 for the SPTK-38G vs. Lagom Mini at $319 or $375 with the larger burrs. That’s clearly taking aim at the same market segment and it’s not unreasonable to suggest people spend $20 extra to support the small company that introduced the original design.
I don’t think anyone in this industry mind a different and cheaper small electric conical burr grinder, after all these have been popular for many years (Baratza). The G-Iota/Solo/DF64 is also a good example of someone making just that, without coping other peoples design and where people had flocked to it, the problem is only that they decided to go down the old route of blatantly coping the design to a very high degree, that is what people get on their fences about. There are really several ways they could have gone around this without looking like a cheap knock off, it’s completely unnecessary to make it so identical, no one mind drawing inspiration and if they done that no one would have ever complained about it.
I would agree on some brands however it's too generic a statement to make up for a completely ripped off design and product. And to be fair to Option-O as a company, they have probably one of the best price-value offerings in their product category. The Lagom-Mini is already amazing value for money as is.
@@JayLoden Oh for sure. I should have clarified this in my original post but in this particular case I don't think it's justified. But I'm commenting on how there is a general condemnation of cloned goods that may be far cheaper compared to original products sold at quite a high markup.
For those on a more constrained budget, I think it is ok to go with the SPTK-38G as the performance is close. Normally I think clones won't be as good as the original. I'm still waiting patiently for my Lagom Mini to be shipped, which I bought based on your videos.
In fact the two grinders come from the same factory in china, but the power supply systems are different. The international version of the lagom mini has a better power supply.
I have an option o mini with 48mm burrs and I absolutely love it. Have had it for 4 months now and don’t regret my purchase at all. Can’t recommend it more
As a person who will never afford higher end coffee equipment I can understand wanting value, but purchasing products that are a clear rip-off of an original design is a surefire way to destroy innovation. I believe JH had made a video about how problematic this can be as brands (in this case Option-O) spend huge investments in R&D and Design and end up not getting it back, which stalls future product development and in some cases puts smaller companies in jeopardy. TLDR; Support the original company so they can make more awesome coffee tools!
@@veganpotterthevegan doesn’t mean it’s okay. Stealing IP/design is actually illegal but there are way too many loopholes people can get away with, like the metal skirt up here. Also there’s a BIG difference between an ‘inspired’/competing product and a complete rip-off that in no way tries to innovate, and this is the latter.
I veey much doubt that huge on R&D was spent from Option-o on the Mini as it is a product found on Alibaba too. There is room to assume that both the grinders come from the same manufacturer in China. It looks to me that both companies want to offer a budget grinder by purchasing someone else's product and reselling it with burr upgrade options.
@@stefanociamarra2505 Option-O is a Melbourne based company, who designs and engineers their own products. They rely on Shenzen based warehouses and authorised distributors for international shipping purposes only. In fact if you order from Australia your order ships from a local warehouse. Just because the item might be available from ali doesn’t mean they’re selling someone else’s design. Not to mention you might be seeing clones on there not actual Option-O.
@@il-ganna I am not questioning the distribution but the design and production origin of the Mini (not the higher class grinders) and the 38G. From your statement it sounds you know a lot about Option-O processes. Are you part of the Option-O team team?
I was reading over the comments and if anyone really cared this much about knock offs they wouldn’t be supporting the DF64 which is also a rip off of Option-O P64. 👁 👁
hello please if you can advice on LAGOM mini motorised coffee grinder Espresso shot with, 48mm Obsydian burrs, or, 48mm Moonshine burrs as im ordering one im new to the coffee world i only under stand 45 to 60 second for Espresso shot time ??
I looked into the SPTK-38G as a lower-priced but similar grinder to the option-o lagom mini, but the shipping for the SPTK-38G is $70 USD, making it close to the same cost as the mini.
This seems more like they copied the form factor if the lagom and the burrs of the Commondante. That kinda seems like they created their own new thing. If I were in the market for a new grinder, I would have no qualms about considering this one.
Love my Lagom Mini. For my needs it is the perfect grinder. I am generally not a fan of knock-offs. You get what you pay for and always I always go for the original. There is a cost to the R&D and rewarding the knock off only hurts the industry in the long run. Besides the Lagom is such an elegant machine the SPTK looks like the knock-off. Btw, Kyle can you put a link to the bellows? I’d love to pick one up. Cheers.
@@KyleRowsell Thanks for sharing, I need something to help clear out the chamber of the grinder from time to time. Btw, thanks for the original review of the Lagom Mini. It was your enthusiasm for it that lead to me purchasing it and I love it. Keep up the good work.
The additional versatility and the fact that it is coming from a company that is becoming well-known makes the Lagom mini a lot more enticing. I haven't been able to justify the price of them each since I've been renovating and saving money and planning to travel but pretty sure I picked the Lagom Mini... waiting for this new burrset to come out and to see if there is a final fix for the stalling so i can see what's up before I commit (I want a stand alone grinder that can grind for espresso sometimes but primarily for Moka pot to pour over)
Bought the mini myself and using it for (light to medium light roast) espresso exclusively. No stalling here at all, although I do use the 3d Printed funnel that was around on these channels somewhere, in which I slowfeed the beans. I also hot start the grinder before putting the beans in, and I'm not having any issues whatsoever until now.
Loving all your videos. Seems like I'm going to have to buy two separate grinders if I want to brew pots of drip coffee AND make single dose pour over, AeroPress or espresso. The lagom mini seems to be the only grinder that will do both espresso and drip for one. Am I missing something? Also can you explain why Fellow won't just sell the Ode with their new Gen 2 burr instead of making us buy it and also buy the new burr? They know it's better!
Wanted ask... how about the performance of the SPTK vs the Option-o interms of Espresso grinding. will be option o 48mm burr set be a more valued for money choice compared to the SPTK?
Well talking about how similar they look it turns out that both the grinders are sold on Alibaba, obviously with different names but identical to the Mini and the 38G….
Fantastic video! I really enjoy your content and happy to say that i have taken a subscription for standard magazin partly as a sponsor for you! A Question about both of them, because of the small motor inside can you grind like 10 doses for espresso on them in one day or would it overhead?
You’re too kind. And I personally wouldn’t recommend doing that much load on this grinder. It’s meant for lighter loads. Someone with more power might be a better option.
Hey Kyle great video. I'm also with people who prefer to support the original owner of idea. But if you are tight on budget I think it's a good option give or take. And also a comment about new camera angle, I preferred the previous one but a little bit of change is always welcomed :) hope you have a great day
I don't understand why these companies continue to put a grinders that stall. Did they not test them with a variety of beans and grind settings? It seems like you would automatically test your finest setting with the densest beans and make sure it can grind that every time. You know people are going to test it doing exactly that just like you did
the lagom mini is awesome, but sould out. maybe u become it end of year, maybe not. i buy this one for 365$ (with 70$ shipping standard flat rate to germany). i wish that i become the lagom mini, but i cant waste my time and wait a long time for a mini grinder.
As a person that works in manufacturing and engineering, this is what we call a company that just copy, paste and edit for quick money. They will never make something that will take time and money to r&d but rather just copy and edit other products for quick profit.
For me primary argument for the copycat is not the price. The biggest reason to get the copycat is the availability of lagom mini and almost all other option o products. Sometimes I do wonder whether many of the high end home grinder makers intentionally limit production to keep up the hype and the price.
Thanks for the comment. Knowing the industry I doubt they hold stock or limit production. But it is a reason to potentially look elsewhere if you can’t get the product you desire.
Thanks for making these videos! I may be in the market for a new grinder, and appreciate the feedback you provide on current products. For my part I’m more interested in information content than angles, but understand the desire to tinker with process. The setup looks great. One thing I’d point out about buying original vs. knockoffs is that the original is almost always better made with better support down the line. The designers were forced to think about design constraints and wrestle with decisions which give them intimate knowledge of the product that can’t be obtained except through an original design process.
Well, you could also say that Option-O copied the burr design from Comandante, which they did, and call them copycats too. 58 Espresso didn't introduce any inovations? True. But neither do the most. Innovations come every few years, the rest is trying out new combinations and making minor improvements. 58 Espresso did make quite a few changes and improvements. Many of them you have mentioned yourself in the video. Few more thing you missed out - the SPTK is more stable, has a nice wooden base (less minimalistic but some like it and adds even more stability) and has less issues with collecting dust or other dirt on the bottom. So, i think calling 58 Espresso copycats is a somewhat unfair. btw. the price difference between those 2 grinders has grown, which would justify choosing SPTK for some even more.
From my very personal point of view, I don't buy copies, at least not so blatantly. Many times the copies are not obvious to the consumer. That said, companies register their industrial patents and have or should have their patent attorneys and, in general, the tools to defend themselves. It is not the consumer's task to take care of what the company does not invest in taking care of, and if the product is available in the formal market, there is no reason to censor who decides to buy it for any reason.
Copyright loopholes are too easy to overcome, especially by experienced lawyers, even with patents involved. With the mass fabrication that happens in Asia it also becomes futile to keep up with all the clones that come out. I have seen 'exact' copies of the Lagom-Mini on Aliexpress for a while now. It is not the consumer's task to fight it, but one should be able to tell between healthy competition and unethical business practice nonetheless.
I bought my option-o mini Dec 2021 but if I hadn't and had the choice between mini & sptk38g, I would spend the "extra" $80 get the mini. I know the option-o quality as I have a P64, and yes you feel the quality in the mini too. But wondering if, or why not, option-o has not reached some agreement with Comandante to use its proven burr similar perhaps to how Niche uses Mazzer burrs?
I am saving for the baratza sette w270 but the lagom mini is also really tempting . But I think I wil choose the baratza because I have heard that baratza has great customer support. I live in the Netherlands and customer support is really important to me
Good video Kyle. I appreciate the time and effort you put into reviewing all these different coffee products. That being said, I am not sure its fair to say it is a knockoff of the Lagom Mini. I agree, they are very similar, but you could say the same about so many things in the world. Cars, planes, trains, laptops, countless coffee brewers and the list goes on. The sptk-38g does have very similar design but like you pointed out there are a lot of differences that to me make it its own grinder. Bellows, different motor, different burr, stepped, etc to me make it unique.
Hey! Thanks for the comment! I’ll tell you why I disagree: The sptk38g is the identical internal and external design (with a skirt). In fact option o has sent me photos of 58 espresso’s lab where they had a lagom mini sitting beside it and other prototypes. It would be different if the design premise of the grinder was similar but not identical. This model here is like hitting copy, paste and adding a few extra features to make it different enough. And I’ve used dozens and dozens of grinders that are “similar”. Everything down to the internal screw placement and chamber diameter and layout is identical. Not only that in their branding on their website they claimed the burr to be a “comandante style burr”. These are just my own opinions and should be taken as opinions. 😊
@@KyleRowsell I completely respect your opinion which is why I keep coming back! you do great work and I appreciate your content! i have neither grinder in front of me so how on earth could I possibly make an informed opinion 🤣. I just saw you have a video on mud water. I can't wait to watch that right now!
Hello sir, I wanna ask you a question about the shower screen of my machine, it is loose not tight, is that normal? does it affect the extraction or not? thanks
I read somewhere that both are made in the same factory. If that is true and the sptk is a copycat, why would the build quality be worse on the sptk? All I can tell from this video is that the Lagom mini has a better magnet.
@@KyleRowsell probably some random guy from Reddit, lol. Anyway, I was really keen on the lagom mini but went ahead with the sptk as those are only available in September. Need it asap as I’m starting to be lazy about hand grinding every morning!
Thanks for the video, great information about it and with the comparison. Do you tested it grinding high dense beans for espresso? I think that the torque that this grinder have is low to work with high dense beans for espresso.
I have a Lagom mini with obsidian burrs and while it is Amazing - it stalls when I try to do espresso with light or medium roast coffee. Does the sptk stall as well when grinding for espressos ? Thanks for a great vid✌️
This seems to be an issue that happens to select units. Mine has never stalled. But I’m fairly confident that option O is working on a fix. Yes this Sptk did stall as you can see in the video.
Eeks… to need a position between the steps and taste a difference… my pallet definitely will not be able to distinguish any difference. Nevertheless, nice review.
I actually already have a pre-order placed for a Lagom Mini, and definitely won’t be changing that after seeing this. On paper a similar form factor, cheaper price, and a cup profile very similar to my much loved C40 all sounds great. But I cannot in good conscience support ripping off two small companies that have contributed meaningful innovation to the world of coffee like Option-O and Comandante have. Particularly when the prices are this close to each other and clearly targeted at the same target market. This grinder obviously offers a great dollar to performance value for consumers, but at a high ethical cost and one that in the end can do a lot of harm to the relatively tiny specialty coffee community.
Honestly I'm not sure I see anything compelling with this SPTK-38G grinder to retire my Baratza Virtuoso! A great grinder with great support, been using it daily for the past 4 years!
Okay, I get that ripping people off isn't awesome, but. . . you all do know I *literally cannot buy* a Lagom Mini right now, right? It's not an option-the current production run won't all be shipped until the middle of July, and who knows when another batch will ship? Option-O is most likely going to sell every single Mini they're capable of producing regardless of if 58 Espresso gets sales. Is this really such a big innovation by Option-O that it's immoral to support 58 Espresso when supporting Option-O isn't even on the table? Is it morally better to buy a stopgap solution that will likely become waste? Or would the morally the "correct" choice be to buy a coffee grinder that doesn't suit my needs as well? I'm not necessarily buying this, but the morality of this isn't as clean cut as "ripoffs bad".
As this is a 38mm burr and you are comparing it to the Lagom mini with 48mm burrs (with similar geometries though) is there any difference in grinding time (for filter and espresso)?
@@KyleRowsell the bigger burr is not as big as stated? I'm not interested in the smaller burr they offer as I do Moka pot a lot and a couple shots of espresso occasionally.
@@NoZenith That was also new to me, but anyway the grind quality of the so-called 48mm obsidian burrs is superior for espresso / moka (and overall). So even small, it should be really good. The so-called 38mm burrs are brew-focused. I have a DF-64 with stock burrs and can't wait to compare the two.
@@alanelassad nice! I was seriously considering a silenzio or perfetto modified for single dosing or the Niche but this Lagom Mini has me legitimately excited. I want one grinder not many and I want to not buy multiple times (research well buy once)
I’d prefer the SPTK because the hopper is looks big enough to grind larger amounts of coffee. That makes it more useful than the Lagom, so I don’t agree with the “clone” sentiment.
Yeah it’s a ripoff, personally to much to my liking, I don’t mind driving inspiration from a product because we all know that is what drives things forward but when its an almost identical I personally find it to much.
@@KyleRowsell Ah, I wondered too. Your voice sounded slightly different than usual in the early part of the vid. Hope you are feeling better and back to 100% soon!
Df64 price depends on where youre from, and the burr that comes with it. The stainless non coated italmill burr would be cheaper than the titanium coated italmill burr
@@KyleRowsell Are you saying that you make 5 gallons worth of TWW? That along with having a dispenser looks pretty convenient. Might have to try that myself.
@@davidmaurice1294 I don't have a dispenser like that, but personally I do make 5 gallons of coffee water at a time. I get near 0 TDS RO water and then weigh and add minerals. Quite easy and cheap and keeps my machine happy and makes tasty coffee
Literally everything you said at the end, about how the cups are very similar, how you wouldn't notice the difference unless they're side by side, how ypu think one is sweeter but that may just be confirmation bias, all are exactly why double blind taste tests exist.
Oh friend, you don’t think I’ve done this over months of testing? Just because it’s not shown in a video doesn’t mean it didn’t happen 😄 Ps. The burrs are nearly identical. Why would you expect vastly different results?
If we don’t pay the extra (which I’m sure its not going to contribute massively yo their bottom line) for the original innovators then as coffee people we’ll just not going to see exciting products
Not a clone in the sense we don't consider the similar form factor of manual grinders unique. Compact electric grinders with manual grinder burrs are now a category. Just like the manual versions, the price points will reflect the burr performance and thought to workflow.
@@KyleRowsell to be clear this is *purely conjecture on my part* but: Option-O previously stated they have had issues with counterfeit Lagom Mini units hitting the market. This is so similar of a clone (right down to screw placements in the grind chamber, shape, dimensions) other than the external body cladding, it makes me wonder a bit about the manufacturing provenance of the SPTK-38G 🤔🤷🏻♂️
Disregarding the specific question of whether or not this grinder is a blatant rip off of the lagom mini, I'm not so sure I'd universally condemn copycats and cheaper derivatives in the world of coffee. Obviously the original company who designed and engineered a given product should be able to charge some sort of premium for their product as a way to recoup on their initial investment, but sometimes those companies grossly over price their products on little more than infintesimal gains and a luxury reputation. For example, barring some extraordinary extraction gains or heavy discounts, I'll most likely buy some alibaba knockoff of the Weber unifilter once it comes out. Innovative? Sure. Innovative and complex enough to justify ~$400? Doubtful. Also, when are we getting that hive roaster review?
Great thoughts Mark. And I’d tend to agree but I would mention that the lagom mini isn’t overpriced in its nature. It’s a sub $400 grinder with great specs. Very competitive in the market today. And who says a hive roaster review is coming 😅 haha
@@KyleRowsell I'd totally agree, I consider the lagom mini very reasonably priced. My comment was directed more towards the general condemnation of knockoffs.
Wait what? Because I use black boxes and white text? Thousands of RUclipsrs do this friend. Not sure why you went on the offence to me here… but do your research.
I disagree. This is a widely known product so I’d rather at least address the topic head on than bury my head in the sand 😄 I called it for what it is.
Many things are cloned and if it's sold for what it is I've no problem with that. When something is sold for something's it's not that's when I have a problem.
I really enjoy your videos. I am the type of person that has to do extensive research before committing to anything and your videos have been a life saver. I trust your opinion and reviews. Your knowledge and videos are much appreciated!
Hey Kyle! I just wanna say that I appreciate that you're not sanctimonious about cloned products, or at least that you keep that part of your opinion to yourself for the sake of accommodating the interests of the consumer. I find that most people, in any hobby, that openly preach against cloned products don't realize just how much their moralizing actually serves to gatekeep against more people getting into the hobby. A person who appreciates the art, engineering, and history of the original product will be willing to spend for it. Whereas a person who knowingly buys the clone, aware of what compromises it has because they were informed properly about it thanks to helpful people like you, were never likely going to spend for the original in the first place anyway. Lowering the price of entry into the hobby is important, and that's something that's often neglected by so many in the community just because they're already waist-deep into the rabbit hole.
Quickly becoming one of my favorite coffee creators! I love your content man!
Thanks friend 😄
From my point of view, inspiration has a limit. I would rather pay the extra 80 bucks to who did put the work into it.
Fair enough! Thanks for the comment!
Yeah as someone with a Lagom Mini order in, the extra money is worth the provenance.
I don't think it's worth the extra $80. I borrowed a mini and wouldn't wanna pay full price
If I were to be buying either of these two grinders and had both in my cart, I would buy the lagom mini. Backup, what the heck, available in September. That would be enough to sway me away from the Lagom.
There’s that old saying, often imitated never duplicated
Two thumbs up for Option-O
Two thumbs up for you too Mr. Kyle 👊
Thanks for watching!
your comment on the notched grind setting on the SPTK-38G is technically correct, however its with noting that you can set the grinder to half setting (i.e) not clicking into a slot giving you 120 settings rather than 60
Despite the possibility of flak for featuring a clone product, much respect for making such a video. Obviously if you can afford to, it’s best to support the original creators but as pointed out by people in the comments, sometimes brands overprice their goods, sometimes people need to save money because yes they want a good product but maybe they just can’t afford that right now. To anyone who says that ‘no you should only buy the originals’ that’s coming from a point of privilege (arguably not exceptionally so, but it’s still there) where you can be okay with the differential. Also, there’s an issue of availability sometimes. Some products are available in some markets but not others while the clones may be more widely available or available in the markets the original isn’t. Just generalizing and saying ‘all clones are bad’ ignores all these and usually comes from a point of privilege that doesn’t necessarily consider why a clone might exist outside of just trying to rip off another company. Not saying that isn’t sometimes the case just saying that it’s a possibility
EDIT: Privilege is not bad. But often it’s good to acknowledge that it exists, especially when pushing value beliefs and statements
I appreciate this perspective. Thanks for the comment!
I agree to an extent - for example if comparing a $1500 Option-O Lagom P64 to a $3-400 DF64 which also *ahem* “borrows” some design cues. In a case like that telling everyone buy a P64 instead is ridiculous, because we’re talking about 4x the price point and into a category well outside what a lot of people can reasonably afford for a home grinder.
But in this case I have more ethical issues with it because the price points are so similar - we’re talking $295 for the SPTK-38G vs. Lagom Mini at $319 or $375 with the larger burrs. That’s clearly taking aim at the same market segment and it’s not unreasonable to suggest people spend $20 extra to support the small company that introduced the original design.
I don’t think anyone in this industry mind a different and cheaper small electric conical burr grinder, after all these have been popular for many years (Baratza).
The G-Iota/Solo/DF64 is also a good example of someone making just that, without coping other peoples design and where people had flocked to it, the problem is only that they decided to go down the old route of blatantly coping the design to a very high degree, that is what people get on their fences about.
There are really several ways they could have gone around this without looking like a cheap knock off, it’s completely unnecessary to make it so identical, no one mind drawing inspiration and if they done that no one would have ever complained about it.
I would agree on some brands however it's too generic a statement to make up for a completely ripped off design and product. And to be fair to Option-O as a company, they have probably one of the best price-value offerings in their product category. The Lagom-Mini is already amazing value for money as is.
@@JayLoden Oh for sure. I should have clarified this in my original post but in this particular case I don't think it's justified. But I'm commenting on how there is a general condemnation of cloned goods that may be far cheaper compared to original products sold at quite a high markup.
For those on a more constrained budget, I think it is ok to go with the SPTK-38G as the performance is close. Normally I think clones won't be as good as the original. I'm still waiting patiently for my Lagom Mini to be shipped, which I bought based on your videos.
I agree. A large reason why I made this video. Thanks for watching! 😄
In fact the two grinders come from the same factory in china, but the power supply systems are different. The international version of the lagom mini has a better power supply.
At least you compare it with the original one. For the comsumer , it is your money , choose wisely.
Thank you for your review.
Thanks for watching!
I just received my Lagom mini yesterday and been having a lot of fun with it. 😂
(I personally think the Lagom looks much better than the clone..)
Yeah I believe the design of the mini is superior too.
I have an option o mini with 48mm burrs and I absolutely love it. Have had it for 4 months now and don’t regret my purchase at all. Can’t recommend it more
Love to hear it!
As a person who will never afford higher end coffee equipment I can understand wanting value, but purchasing products that are a clear rip-off of an original design is a surefire way to destroy innovation. I believe JH had made a video about how problematic this can be as brands (in this case Option-O) spend huge investments in R&D and Design and end up not getting it back, which stalls future product development and in some cases puts smaller companies in jeopardy.
TLDR; Support the original company so they can make more awesome coffee tools!
Copying designs are as old as humanity. But we still get new designs
@@veganpotterthevegan doesn’t mean it’s okay. Stealing IP/design is actually illegal but there are way too many loopholes people can get away with, like the metal skirt up here. Also there’s a BIG difference between an ‘inspired’/competing product and a complete rip-off that in no way tries to innovate, and this is the latter.
I veey much doubt that huge on R&D was spent from Option-o on the Mini as it is a product found on Alibaba too. There is room to assume that both the grinders come from the same manufacturer in China. It looks to me that both companies want to offer a budget grinder by purchasing someone else's product and reselling it with burr upgrade options.
@@stefanociamarra2505 Option-O is a Melbourne based company, who designs and engineers their own products. They rely on Shenzen based warehouses and authorised distributors for international shipping purposes only. In fact if you order from Australia your order ships from a local warehouse. Just because the item might be available from ali doesn’t mean they’re selling someone else’s design. Not to mention you might be seeing clones on there not actual Option-O.
@@il-ganna I am not questioning the distribution but the design and production origin of the Mini (not the higher class grinders) and the 38G. From your statement it sounds you know a lot about Option-O processes. Are you part of the Option-O team team?
I was reading over the comments and if anyone really cared this much about knock offs they wouldn’t be supporting the DF64 which is also a rip off of Option-O P64. 👁 👁
hello please if you can advice on LAGOM mini motorised coffee grinder Espresso shot with, 48mm Obsydian burrs, or, 48mm Moonshine burrs as im ordering one im new to the coffee world i only under stand 45 to 60 second for Espresso shot time ??
Kyle any comment
I just bought Lagom Mini from your video. I hope the grinder is good as the advertised
It should be! I don't advertise but only share my honest thoughts! Enjoy!
Great review mate. Really enjoy your stuff.
Much appreciated!
You and your content just keep getting better with every video. Congratulations, and thank you!
Ah your too kind! Thank you
I looked into the SPTK-38G as a lower-priced but similar grinder to the option-o lagom mini, but the shipping for the SPTK-38G is $70 USD, making it close to the same cost as the mini.
This seems more like they copied the form factor if the lagom and the burrs of the Commondante. That kinda seems like they created their own new thing. If I were in the market for a new grinder, I would have no qualms about considering this one.
Appreciate the response. All the best!
Love my Lagom Mini. For my needs it is the perfect grinder. I am generally not a fan of knock-offs. You get what you pay for and always I always go for the original. There is a cost to the R&D and rewarding the knock off only hurts the industry in the long run. Besides the Lagom is such an elegant machine the SPTK looks like the knock-off.
Btw, Kyle can you put a link to the bellows? I’d love to pick one up. Cheers.
Unfortunately I don’t have a link to the bellows, but it is a bellows from the df64.
@@KyleRowsell Thanks for sharing, I need something to help clear out the chamber of the grinder from time to time. Btw, thanks for the original review of the Lagom Mini. It was your enthusiasm for it that lead to me purchasing it and I love it. Keep up the good work.
The additional versatility and the fact that it is coming from a company that is becoming well-known makes the Lagom mini a lot more enticing. I haven't been able to justify the price of them each since I've been renovating and saving money and planning to travel but pretty sure I picked the Lagom Mini... waiting for this new burrset to come out and to see if there is a final fix for the stalling so i can see what's up before I commit (I want a stand alone grinder that can grind for espresso sometimes but primarily for Moka pot to pour over)
Bought the mini myself and using it for (light to medium light roast) espresso exclusively. No stalling here at all, although I do use the 3d Printed funnel that was around on these channels somewhere, in which I slowfeed the beans. I also hot start the grinder before putting the beans in, and I'm not having any issues whatsoever until now.
Loving all your videos. Seems like I'm going to have to buy two separate grinders if I want to brew pots of drip coffee AND make single dose pour over, AeroPress or espresso. The lagom mini seems to be the only grinder that will do both espresso and drip for one. Am I missing something? Also can you explain why Fellow won't just sell the Ode with their new Gen 2 burr instead of making us buy it and also buy the new burr? They know it's better!
Not going to make friends at Option-O with this clear knock off haha! Love the content anyway Kyle. Keep it coming.
Wanted ask... how about the performance of the SPTK vs the Option-o interms of Espresso grinding.
will be option o 48mm burr set be a more valued for money choice compared to the SPTK?
Well talking about how similar they look it turns out that both the grinders are sold on Alibaba, obviously with different names but identical to the Mini and the 38G….
Fantastic video! I really enjoy your content and happy to say that i have taken a subscription for standard magazin partly as a sponsor for you!
A Question about both of them, because of the small motor inside can you grind like 10 doses for espresso on them in one day or would it overhead?
You’re too kind. And I personally wouldn’t recommend doing that much load on this grinder. It’s meant for lighter loads. Someone with more power might be a better option.
Hey Kyle great video. I'm also with people who prefer to support the original owner of idea. But if you are tight on budget I think it's a good option give or take.
And also a comment about new camera angle, I preferred the previous one but a little bit of change is always welcomed :) hope you have a great day
Thanks as always Arian!
Lagoon mini all the way 😅👍
Right on!
I don't understand why these companies continue to put a grinders that stall. Did they not test them with a variety of beans and grind settings? It seems like you would automatically test your finest setting with the densest beans and make sure it can grind that every time. You know people are going to test it doing exactly that just like you did
the lagom mini is awesome, but sould out. maybe u become it end of year, maybe not. i buy this one for 365$ (with 70$ shipping standard flat rate to germany). i wish that i become the lagom mini, but i cant waste my time and wait a long time for a mini grinder.
As a person that works in manufacturing and engineering, this is what we call a company that just copy, paste and edit for quick money. They will never make something that will take time and money to r&d but rather just copy and edit other products for quick profit.
What do you think about burrbuzz model2024? Irs just like sptk??
For me primary argument for the copycat is not the price. The biggest reason to get the copycat is the availability of lagom mini and almost all other option o products. Sometimes I do wonder whether many of the high end home grinder makers intentionally limit production to keep up the hype and the price.
Thanks for the comment. Knowing the industry I doubt they hold stock or limit production. But it is a reason to potentially look elsewhere if you can’t get the product you desire.
Thanks for making these videos! I may be in the market for a new grinder, and appreciate the feedback you provide on current products. For my part I’m more interested in information content than angles, but understand the desire to tinker with process. The setup looks great. One thing I’d point out about buying original vs. knockoffs is that the original is almost always better made with better support down the line. The designers were forced to think about design constraints and wrestle with decisions which give them intimate knowledge of the product that can’t be obtained except through an original design process.
Well, you could also say that Option-O copied the burr design from Comandante, which they did, and call them copycats too. 58 Espresso didn't introduce any inovations? True. But neither do the most. Innovations come every few years, the rest is trying out new combinations and making minor improvements. 58 Espresso did make quite a few changes and improvements. Many of them you have mentioned yourself in the video. Few more thing you missed out - the SPTK is more stable, has a nice wooden base (less minimalistic but some like it and adds even more stability) and has less issues with collecting dust or other dirt on the bottom. So, i think calling 58 Espresso copycats is a somewhat unfair.
btw. the price difference between those 2 grinders has grown, which would justify choosing SPTK for some even more.
From my very personal point of view, I don't buy copies, at least not so blatantly. Many times the copies are not obvious to the consumer.
That said, companies register their industrial patents and have or should have their patent attorneys and, in general, the tools to defend themselves. It is not the consumer's task to take care of what the company does not invest in taking care of, and if the product is available in the formal market, there is no reason to censor who decides to buy it for any reason.
I Really appreciate this perspective. Thanks for your thoughts!
Copyright loopholes are too easy to overcome, especially by experienced lawyers, even with patents involved. With the mass fabrication that happens in Asia it also becomes futile to keep up with all the clones that come out. I have seen 'exact' copies of the Lagom-Mini on Aliexpress for a while now. It is not the consumer's task to fight it, but one should be able to tell between healthy competition and unethical business practice nonetheless.
I bought my option-o mini Dec 2021 but if I hadn't and had the choice between mini & sptk38g, I would spend the "extra" $80 get the mini. I know the option-o quality as I have a P64, and yes you feel the quality in the mini too. But wondering if, or why not, option-o has not reached some agreement with Comandante to use its proven burr similar perhaps to how Niche uses Mazzer burrs?
your channel has loads of great info about coffee thumbs up and sub!
Appreciate this, welcome!
Hi Kyle! What number of clicks is the best for pour over on sptk grinder ??? Thanks
I think those 38mm burrs are more similar to the Comandante than the 1Zpresso Q2 7-core!
I am saving for the baratza sette w270 but the lagom mini is also really tempting . But I think I wil choose the baratza because I have heard that baratza has great customer support. I live in the Netherlands and customer support is really important to me
Baratza does have great support. You can't go wrong, honestly.
It has, but this model will probably make you use the support and eventually spend some money on replacement parts
Kyle, would you prefer this grinder over the Baratza Encore for brew and pour over?
There is a new conical grinder by the company that made DF64. The SD40, might be worth looking at, similar price point
Someone I talked to had the SD40 or something that looked exactly like it (different branding maybe?) and said this one was better.
Do you have more info on the new option o burr?
Not yet. But hopefully soon!
Good video Kyle. I appreciate the time and effort you put into reviewing all these different coffee products. That being said, I am not sure its fair to say it is a knockoff of the Lagom Mini. I agree, they are very similar, but you could say the same about so many things in the world. Cars, planes, trains, laptops, countless coffee brewers and the list goes on. The sptk-38g does have very similar design but like you pointed out there are a lot of differences that to me make it its own grinder. Bellows, different motor, different burr, stepped, etc to me make it unique.
Hey! Thanks for the comment!
I’ll tell you why I disagree:
The sptk38g is the identical internal and external design (with a skirt). In fact option o has sent me photos of 58 espresso’s lab where they had a lagom mini sitting beside it and other prototypes.
It would be different if the design premise of the grinder was similar but not identical. This model here is like hitting copy, paste and adding a few extra features to make it different enough. And I’ve used dozens and dozens of grinders that are “similar”. Everything down to the internal screw placement and chamber diameter and layout is identical.
Not only that in their branding on their website they claimed the burr to be a “comandante style burr”.
These are just my own opinions and should be taken as opinions. 😊
@@KyleRowsell I completely respect your opinion which is why I keep coming back! you do great work and I appreciate your content! i have neither grinder in front of me so how on earth could I possibly make an informed opinion 🤣. I just saw you have a video on mud water. I can't wait to watch that right now!
Don’t want to support a clone but might end up doing it cause I cant even pre order a mini atm
You’re not the only one
Nice.. hope to see someone revieuwing the goat story arco real soon 😃☕☕
I will be reviewing it very soon.
@@KyleRowsell hehe thanks. That would be great. Niche, lagom or the goat🐐 looking foreward to your review
Hello sir, I wanna ask you a question about the shower screen of my machine, it is loose not tight, is that normal? does it affect the extraction or not? thanks
I wonder what would happen if they bring this to the SCE and open the booth next to option-o’s booth (if any). Lol
Kyle can u force it safely to be between steps and have it not move on u?
I read somewhere that both are made in the same factory. If that is true and the sptk is a copycat, why would the build quality be worse on the sptk? All I can tell from this video is that the Lagom mini has a better magnet.
In contact with option O this doesn’t seem to be accurate. And I trust the words of Hayden and team, they’ve been reliable in the past
@@KyleRowsell probably some random guy from Reddit, lol. Anyway, I was really keen on the lagom mini but went ahead with the sptk as those are only available in September. Need it asap as I’m starting to be lazy about hand grinding every morning!
Thanks for the video, great information about it and with the comparison.
Do you tested it grinding high dense beans for espresso? I think that the torque that this grinder have is low to work with high dense beans for espresso.
Yes I did, it stalls if beans are too dense.
@@KyleRowsell Thanks for the quick answer, yes I suspect that this grinder don't work well for espresso with this low torque.👍
I have a Lagom mini with obsidian burrs and while it is Amazing - it stalls when I try to do espresso with light or medium roast coffee. Does the sptk stall as well when grinding for espressos ? Thanks for a great vid✌️
This seems to be an issue that happens to select units. Mine has never stalled. But I’m fairly confident that option O is working on a fix. Yes this Sptk did stall as you can see in the video.
Reach out to Option-O, they should set you straight. There's a newer power supply that should fix it.
@@KyleRowsell thanks 🙏
@@MattM-24 awesome thanks 😊
aaaah yis just what I was looking for!
Enjoy!
Eeks… to need a position between the steps and taste a difference… my pallet definitely will not be able to distinguish any difference. Nevertheless, nice review.
Hey! I wanted to buy a kettle and I saw the brewista artisan that you used. How does it fare compared to the Stagg ekg in your opinion?
I enjoy it for it's faster flow in certain instances. I use a stagg daily too. Both work great.
I actually already have a pre-order placed for a Lagom Mini, and definitely won’t be changing that after seeing this. On paper a similar form factor, cheaper price, and a cup profile very similar to my much loved C40 all sounds great. But I cannot in good conscience support ripping off two small companies that have contributed meaningful innovation to the world of coffee like Option-O and Comandante have. Particularly when the prices are this close to each other and clearly targeted at the same target market. This grinder obviously offers a great dollar to performance value for consumers, but at a high ethical cost and one that in the end can do a lot of harm to the relatively tiny specialty coffee community.
Thanks for the comment Jay! Appreciate this input.
Spline count looks different between the burrs
Out of curiosity, what is the sound level like compared to the Lagom Mini? I also ordered a mini based on your videos, just waiting for it to ship!
It's very similar.
They’re getting less expensive 👏🏼👏🏼
Stepless mod?
Can you put the different burrs in the different machines?
I don’t see why not
Stepless all the way 😉👌
Honestly I'm not sure I see anything compelling with this SPTK-38G grinder to retire my Baratza Virtuoso! A great grinder with great support, been using it daily for the past 4 years!
Love to hear it!
Okay, I get that ripping people off isn't awesome, but. . . you all do know I *literally cannot buy* a Lagom Mini right now, right? It's not an option-the current production run won't all be shipped until the middle of July, and who knows when another batch will ship? Option-O is most likely going to sell every single Mini they're capable of producing regardless of if 58 Espresso gets sales.
Is this really such a big innovation by Option-O that it's immoral to support 58 Espresso when supporting Option-O isn't even on the table? Is it morally better to buy a stopgap solution that will likely become waste? Or would the morally the "correct" choice be to buy a coffee grinder that doesn't suit my needs as well?
I'm not necessarily buying this, but the morality of this isn't as clean cut as "ripoffs bad".
I think they are from the same OEM and both companies just buy from the OEM and slap on different companies' names.
They’re not. I’ve confirmed this with the head of option o
As this is a 38mm burr and you are comparing it to the Lagom mini with 48mm burrs (with similar geometries though) is there any difference in grinding time (for filter and espresso)?
While lagom states it’s 48mm it turns out it actually is a 38mm burr. No difference in grind time in my experience
@@KyleRowsell whaaaaat? Thank you very much for answering ! I’ve ordered the Lagom and didn’t know that! 😂 Well, at least it’s good
@@KyleRowsell the bigger burr is not as big as stated? I'm not interested in the smaller burr they offer as I do Moka pot a lot and a couple shots of espresso occasionally.
@@NoZenith That was also new to me, but anyway the grind quality of the so-called 48mm obsidian burrs is superior for espresso / moka (and overall). So even small, it should be really good. The so-called 38mm burrs are brew-focused. I have a DF-64 with stock burrs and can't wait to compare the two.
@@alanelassad nice! I was seriously considering a silenzio or perfetto modified for single dosing or the Niche but this Lagom Mini has me legitimately excited. I want one grinder not many and I want to not buy multiple times (research well buy once)
Because the specifications of this product are getting better, the manufacturer was not able to review you. Why are you doing that?
I’d prefer the SPTK because the hopper is looks big enough to grind larger amounts of coffee. That makes it more useful than the Lagom, so I don’t agree with the “clone” sentiment.
I appreciate this response!
When the test of the Arco Grinder from Goat Story ? 🤩🤩
Very soon
@@KyleRowsell so cool !! Can't wait to see if I did the right choice 🤣
Yeah it’s a ripoff, personally to much to my liking, I don’t mind driving inspiration from a product because we all know that is what drives things forward but when its an almost identical I personally find it to much.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate the conversation.
Is it just me or does Kyle sound off today? Like a little high pitched
I’m battling Covid. Maybe that’s why lol
@@KyleRowsell Ah, I wondered too. Your voice sounded slightly different than usual in the early part of the vid. Hope you are feeling better and back to 100% soon!
@@KyleRowsell ahh okay rest well brother and I hope you recover soon. I recovered from covid just literally 2 weeks ago.
Customer support is a factor you should also consider. Lagom has been good so fast. Can you do a lagom mini 6 month update after constant use.
Oh yes. Option-O has fantastic service. Bar none.
"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"... too bad about the big steps. Same as the Commandante but that has an official mod to fix that.
I think it looks sleek but for 50 more dollars I can get DF64, no?
No. The df64 is often found over $500. Maybe $450 if lucky.
Df64 price depends on where youre from, and the burr that comes with it.
The stainless non coated italmill burr would be cheaper than the titanium coated italmill burr
@@KyleRowsell did you remove my link to official df64 store? Was it an issue? I was just linking for the price 375 dollars
What is this tap you used at 1:08 ?
It’s a 5 gallon pump from amazon.
@@KyleRowsell Are you saying that you make 5 gallons worth of TWW? That along with having a dispenser looks pretty convenient. Might have to try that myself.
@@davidmaurice1294 I don't have a dispenser like that, but personally I do make 5 gallons of coffee water at a time. I get near 0 TDS RO water and then weigh and add minerals. Quite easy and cheap and keeps my machine happy and makes tasty coffee
Kool love it
Thanks for watching
Urwellcome anytime dear
SPTK doesn’t seem worth it to me. I’m more interested in how the Lagom mini compares to the Turnin DF64 since they’re priced similarly
Literally everything you said at the end, about how the cups are very similar, how you wouldn't notice the difference unless they're side by side, how ypu think one is sweeter but that may just be confirmation bias, all are exactly why double blind taste tests exist.
Oh friend, you don’t think I’ve done this over months of testing? Just because it’s not shown in a video doesn’t mean it didn’t happen 😄
Ps. The burrs are nearly identical. Why would you expect vastly different results?
cool
If we don’t pay the extra (which I’m sure its not going to contribute massively yo their bottom line) for the original innovators then as coffee people we’ll just not going to see exciting products
Agreed!
The difference between both grinders is not too big, but most important for me I can't be comfortable using a total rip-off like this.
They didn't bring anything new to the table. If they did then maybe, but this just doesn't feel right, exactly!
Thanks for sharing! Appreciate the thoughts
I would rather save money tbh
@@petervansan1054 that's why I bought the hand grinder and save for a big boy down the road ;)
@@paryzfilip that works if you have single espresso in the morning but hand grinding 10 espressos I would rather kill myself :P
The saving probably worth a few bags of beans only, which isn’t worth it if you intend to use the grinder for longer than a few months. Go original!
Fair enough.
Not a clone in the sense we don't consider the similar form factor of manual grinders unique.
Compact electric grinders with manual grinder burrs are now a category. Just like the manual versions, the price points will reflect the burr performance and thought to workflow.
👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍
Not cool. You are, Kyle. The grinder isn’t. Think of the effort and resources Option-O put in to R&D and making the product possible. Respect.
Haha absolutely, I talked about this with Hayden from option O and he was less than excited about this grinder.
@@KyleRowsell to be clear this is *purely conjecture on my part* but: Option-O previously stated they have had issues with counterfeit Lagom Mini units hitting the market. This is so similar of a clone (right down to screw placements in the grind chamber, shape, dimensions) other than the external body cladding, it makes me wonder a bit about the manufacturing provenance of the SPTK-38G 🤔🤷🏻♂️
Disregarding the specific question of whether or not this grinder is a blatant rip off of the lagom mini, I'm not so sure I'd universally condemn copycats and cheaper derivatives in the world of coffee. Obviously the original company who designed and engineered a given product should be able to charge some sort of premium for their product as a way to recoup on their initial investment, but sometimes those companies grossly over price their products on little more than infintesimal gains and a luxury reputation. For example, barring some extraordinary extraction gains or heavy discounts, I'll most likely buy some alibaba knockoff of the Weber unifilter once it comes out. Innovative? Sure. Innovative and complex enough to justify ~$400? Doubtful.
Also, when are we getting that hive roaster review?
Great thoughts Mark. And I’d tend to agree but I would mention that the lagom mini isn’t overpriced in its nature. It’s a sub $400 grinder with great specs. Very competitive in the market today.
And who says a hive roaster review is coming 😅 haha
@@KyleRowsell I'd totally agree, I consider the lagom mini very reasonably priced. My comment was directed more towards the general condemnation of knockoffs.
..
You talk about the cloning as a negative, yet your thumbnail style and format is a direct rip of James Hoffman's style....
Wait what? Because I use black boxes and white text? Thousands of RUclipsrs do this friend. Not sure why you went on the offence to me here… but do your research.
How are they allowed to rip off Lagom legally? I thought we had trademarks for a reason
don't buy a knock off.
should not give clones a platform.
I disagree. This is a widely known product so I’d rather at least address the topic head on than bury my head in the sand 😄 I called it for what it is.
@@KyleRowsell completely agree. Thanks for the video Kyle.
Many things are cloned and if it's sold for what it is I've no problem with that. When something is sold for something's it's not that's when I have a problem.