As an actual licensed icf installer and also a licensed spray foam installer, I can tell you that there are countless things wrong with this way of doing things. I, like others on here, am amazed this was even considered by your building department. Just wow.
If there obviously a building wall/roof load, WHY is there not a 24" footing 8" deep on this build???... maybe the permit department did not notice your drawing showed NO footer....so, when they do an inspection before backfilling, they may surprise you by telling you to start over and get a footing under this build.......
I would never put an ICF directly on dirt like they did it here without a footer where we are in Nova Scotia. A 16" wide, 8" thick footing would be the bare minimum. But maybe their soil is very stable and if they have no frost that could also make a difference? Now if they put a second story on that 6" wall without a footing that would be crazy.
This is going to be a great lesson to learn for everybody involved. Thanks for taking the risk and cost in teaching everyone most likely what not to do. But it is a strength to be willing to be wrong and keep pushing even when things dont work out AND share that outcome with everyone. After this, many people will be able to have the experience to advise future related projects, not just theorize.
Ya it's so weird to build a thickened edge slab.that sits on compacted stone ? They been doing this since the the Stone Age. it's probably gonna just crumble under the house. . After 4 months. lnot 1 crack.in this. you need to study building science before you make comments.
I wasn't sure where you were headed with this. You sparked my curiosity. I'm not totally convinced that this is the way to go yet. I think it'll probably work ok, but I just like the tried and true method of having the foundation sitting on top of a wider footer. It distibutes the weight of the house. I do love you work and videos. You do excellent work. You may be pioneering a new way to do it. Thanks!
i wounder how strong the foam is when putting 10-20m of contrecte on top? hm... we put the walls directly on the fondation and had a floating floor inside.
I think i am going to have to reserve judgement on this until its completed, but so far it seems like someone is trying to reinvent the wheel & im not convinced. I appreciate you don't always get to choose what system a client or main contractor users though & just do what you're contracted to do.
You may think that this content is a little boring because this is what you do. Many of us DIY'rs haven't seen a process like this! Thank You! Even though it looks simple, experience working with it makes it that way. Probably not as easy as you make it look.Oh yeah I subbed too. I felt like I was on the jobsite with you guys just watching.
As building materials such as Concrete and Labor gets more expensive sadly many builders will cut corners and may claim a poured footer is not necessary. But as we all saw in the video the bottoms of the ICF blocks had layer of foam placed inside of them and that form will compress from the structural compression load. I see a future of uneven walls and sagging floors along with constant sheet rock nail pops. The structure in this case is only being supported by the 6 inch wide sliver of concrete inside of the ICF blocks. The moisture in the ground (since it is near a wetlands area) will only exasperate the sinking and settling problems. No Thanks.
these comments are right on would have been a little better letting the concrete go to the gravel instead of foam , there is a reason footings are wider than the wall to hold the weight of the building
@@billw2168 The entire slab is a huge footing as it distributes the load. Imagine the ICF Was not even there and the house was just built on a 6" slab. It would not go anywhere. The c24" thick bond beam with double rebar just makes it crazy strong. This slab is over engineered if anything for a ranch house.
So this is an interesting approach, but honestly I think the way they do it in the nordic countries is better. The contain the entire slab in foam, including the edge beams, and pour it in one go. There's a couple of ways to do this in USA, usually DIY, but there's a few companies that do forms for it like WarmForm. That way the load is spread out like with a normal footer, too. Edit: Also with this solution I'd think that even for a single story house you'd want 10 or 12" core at this pseudofooting to spread the load more. Unless I'm totally off target on what you're going for. Looking forward to next video haha
I can personally vouch on how compacted the gravel is. We used pick axes and a jack hammer to open the gravel up to install the drain lines. And the concrete floor hasn't cracked.
This is brilliant, great time and money saver for monolithic slab on grade while reaping the benefits of ICF. Noticed a lot of commenters don't quite understand this process. Maybe you can explain it to them in your next video. Great work, as always. I may borrow this idea on my next slab build.
@sailingwiththegods538 Mono-slab with a just a thickened perimeter counts as a footing in most jurisdictions. This method would be better than that. Also geological location and house size (likely single story) are factors of consideration. He's clearly working off an approved plan. If both sides of fox-blocks are sub grade and slab to wall connection is tied with rebar well, I don't see the problem and wouldn't have an issues if it was my house, and I'm a 25+ year home builder myself.
That foam locking the icf to the ground was so cool. That is going to be so air tight. I am looking into building a house in Florida and I really liked that use of the closed cell foam. I might spray a termite treatment below the icf form and the 2’ out in both direction to prevent the sub terrainian termites
There seems to be a great deal of debate of whether or not there should be a footer. I would be very interested to hear an engineer’s perspective on how to get this to pass inspection. One needs to remember the building code is a guideline, but ultimately a professional engineer can produce an alternative design that meets or exceeds building code requirements. As others have noted, precast and treated wood foundations can be built on compacted gravel without a footing.
Unless these people live in the backwoods, where there are no inconvenient things like building codes, and watching them move around at such slow speeds, that probably is true; then this would fail any inspection, and if no inspection is done, fail as a building quickly. You can't just spread some sand on disturbed soil , run a packer over it a little and call it good. Maybe if they are really lucky the entire structure will settle evenly. So in a year or two the house is evenly 6 inches lower than at the start.
The entire sight was dug down about 2 to 3 feet and organic material was pushed off and used for the yard. The excavator put about 7 10 wheelers of softball size cobble rock down then about 10 loads of bank run gravel on top of that then about 15 loads of a finer gravel on top of that and inside the ICF area. All this material was compacted in short lifts. of about 8" to 1 foot. Most of that work was done prior to us starting the ICF blocks. I visited the sight several tines and made sure this was done to my approval and I have worked with this excavator guy for years.
wow, never seen this before, really good idea! When i built my house i used in metric 10cm 15 concrete 10cm - if id do it again id use the new blocks that has 20cm outside 15 concrete 10cm inside to make a passive house. Really good idea to do it like this!
That black foam part shouldn't be glued there, they're not flush with the floor and will create a void in a too narrow surface area. The solution could be to spray foam the floor inside the ICF after it is level, and the sides have been covered with spray foam. This will prevent the uneven black foam to the ground to cave in and won't create a hole after pouring.
In the early 90s I sold urethane cfc blown foam to foamers who did a variety of applications from fishing boat holds to Controlled Atmosphere Apple storage warehouse… and the Seattle King dome roof… those were some wild and crazy times in the PNW FRP industry. .
My neighbor built a two story entire house with the blocks. Basically solid cement footings and all the walls were blocks filled with concrete. Cement siding and trim. his place will be there for 500 years.
If you don't have a spray foam gun, it is worth the investment. You have a lot more control. They cost about 70 bucks. Don't buy a 'looks like spray foam gun'. You will need a can of spray foam cleaner to clean the gun. I was told that you can leave the gun filled with foam as long as you shut the valve and leave a can on the gun, but that has definitely not worked for me. I clean the gun as soon as I am done with it.
From experience you can leave the gun for about a week before it starts to gum up. Then you plug in the cleaner. You con't need to finish a can in order to pull the can off and run the cleaner. When you run the cleaner, it doesn't do much, but just leave the can connected, and put it aside for 10 minutes. When you pick it up next the cleaner will have done its work, and a bunch of gunk comes out. Repeat until the cleaner comes out of the nozzle after a 10 minute wait. My current project is insulating 5 shipping containers with rigid foam. I have a gun of foam construction adhesive, a gun of spray foam, and a 400 board foot 2 part froth pack.
Years ago 15-20, the Portland Cement Association (PCA) promoted ICF construction and the ICF systems have come along way. I have seen schools, box stores, manufacturing, & many homes built with ICF. The question of needing a footer is locally addressed. If Florida, the ICF home survives the hurricanes with less damage.
Nuttiest thing I've ever seen! You do good work but this is crazy. Also dont believe in the 2' lateral insulation in being half of your frost depth. Not in my house! Tried and true is just that for a reason.
I've built slab on grade before, twice. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this concept. I'm finding it hard to see any advantage at the moment. Our shallow slab foundations were poured in a single step. Heated floor in there, so lots of prep before the pour, but I can see how you plan to support the middle of the slab?
What’s the compressive strength of that black foam? My only thought is that’ll cause settling if that compresses under the weight of the concrete. Still fun to watch!
It looks like a medium to high density XPS foam. I'd guess it's somewhere between 25-50psi . That would be 3600psf or more. It would take very tall walls to crush that, something like 50ft tall.
Interesting concept will have to learn more about it. Lots of opinions on both sides just a little surprised that no footers and very different from other buildings is this because of the high water table?
Thanks Ron for another super-informative video. I'm putting in a Barndominium on a monolithic slab and this is a really interesting idea that I'll have to show my engineer. Every time I'm doing concrete work I think What Would Bondo Do?
Very interesting. Wood stakes certainly way cheaper than steel stakes. will be interesting to see what if any movement you get during the pour. Is there horizontal rebar in this wall? Confused by how much if any is in there. Using a micro rebar replacement instead mixed into the concrete?
Interesting but not sure I would trust that method in upstate NY or where the frost line is 36”-48” below grade. I am only guessing the spray foam was required for a shallow form/foam foundation in this case?
Regarding the footer, to begin with, I am not a structural engineer, but the number of decades in this business, I learned a lot of stuff. I do think this is an interesting idea that reminds me of how the Superior Walls system works. If the soil conditions are right to get an extreme compaction rate, then you should be in good shape. Like Superior Walls, I would put down at least the same type of stone they require for that top base. Which now becomes another compacted base that should meet the requirements for a footing. For those who have built or have knowledge of the Permeant Wood Foundations (“PWF”), if concrete footing is not specified, they follow basically the same type of procedure. The goal is to get that stone to work as a spread footing. Not to questions Ron’s professionalism and knowledge which I highly respect, as he is rare breed here on RUclips, I wonder why he did not use a transition block for the bottom course to get even a larger core. Unless Fox Blocks does not have that.
Another key point to remember, that bottom piece of form in the core, should be at least 25psi. I would defiantly check with an engineer if that is enough psi and the level type of the foam. Some folks have switched over to the crushed glass stone to handle the weight. A famous example, the I-95 Bridge collapse in the city of Philadelphia several years ago. They paved right over the glass. BTW: the glass is stone is slightly over an inch thick with an R-1 rating. If you put down 12 inches of glass stone in the area underneath the concrete, you get an R-12 rating. Thanks, Ron, for another exciting video. 😎
Glad you liked the video. This will be a monolithic slab on grade you will see ghat in the next video I cut the inside of the block down and pour it all at the same time. It is not a stem wall. Thanks for the comment. 😊
The problem with this approach is you have a complete thermal break with the soil. ICF walls have a geothermal component by pouring a footer below the frost line and setting your ICF wall on top of the poured concrete footer you have a insulated concrete wall that will conduct the constant ground temo up the concrete core of the walls 3-4 stories. By doing it the way you are building this you do not take full advantage if the ICF system we use Proform HD as your top rail of your footer and then line the inside of the footer with the Fast Foot plastic bag . This prevents ground water from moving up the inner concrete core by capillary action this prevents mold growth on the concrete. The Proform HD acts as your drainage system inside and outside of the footer. We use SCC concrete so the footer is self leveling.
To me this looks way more exspensive and personally I wouldn't want any foam under the footing . I don't see the spray foam actually getting under the forms so you now have voids . I'd back up the forms with a little dirt and lay some foam board down. Will the foam compress under the building and concrete weight? Is that spray foam made for wet conditions.
Yes it will compress, but the compression will be even all around. Not sure how much though. 1/16"? That ICF wall will work as a huge beam and will even out everything.
What is the compressive strength of the spray foam used under your blocks?? I believe that not using a traditional footing under these blocks is inviting a future failure.
I have seen something similar with regard to monolith slab, cutting the front of the foam ICF so slab and perimeter are one. I have not see done with the spray foam holding in place Do not really see the need for the bottom foam, is it for thermal break and moisture barrier? All very interesting, I like thinking of ways to improving the process. Cheers from Oz
I read that a lot of viewers have concern over the lack of a "footing". I had my reservations also. But then I realized that the gravel pad that the walls are sitting on are, in essence a giant footing. IRC (International Residential Code) 403.1 states that all exterior walls need to be on a masonry, concrete, and yes, crushed stone footing. I'm assuming that is how Bondo is able to bear the wall directly on the gravel. Besides, I don't know of a jurisdiction that will permit a project that doesn't meet code, and or, is stamped by an engineer.
this gentleman talks so slow that when i put it to 1.75 % that he just starts to sound like when my sister talks, helps me get through the whole video quicker but watch all the content
With todays ridiculous prices not too many people have the money to build full basements or crawl spaces. This would be a great alternative for us cold climate northerners on a budget.
Bondo, why not use a heavy roller compactor that vibrates prior setting the forms so that there will be little chance of settling thus limiting or eliminating cracking of the concrete floor or slab foundation?
@bondobuilt386 I have to admit, I have a son that is the hardest worker I know. We are so alike, I have to kind of watch my tongue. Sometimes I kinda "belittle" him, and others, when I step in and "show" them how to do something that I know they already know what to do. Happy crew is a productive crew!
Hey Ron, (great name by the way). I had a couple of thoughts. You said you pushed the foam down on the bottom and its resting on the base material. What about using skewers instead of spray foam? The skewers can be pulled and reused, you'll save a ton on sprayfoam, over time, that would add up quick. The other thought was about the block to make up the correct length of the wall. What about driving rebar once length is established, to keep from shifting. Then spanning that distance with your boards. Cut ICF block to fit, secure to the 😮 spray foam the joints? Anyway, "here comes the mud....."!!😅😅
Hey bondo... long time viewer here and I was wondering if you could do a video on simple footers. Size , width and so forth. I am starting a 24 x24 blog soon and could use your help. I'm in tenn and our freeze line is 12 inches. Thanks and I really appreciate your experience.
I gotta say, I'm not a fan of this method. For one there's no footings, so the bottom of the wall carries the load, and that's a lot narrower and thus more prone to settling. On top of that, the ground under the forms isn't completely flat and level, so at best the house is bearing on spray foam, and I don't think they got much under the forms. If the foam strips at the bottom were free-floating at least the weight of the concrete would force them tight to the ground. Overall, this method looks to be a lot less stable than your traditional method.
The entire slab carries the load and we pushed that foam down to the bottom before we spray foamed so load goes to the ground. You will understand better in part 2 of video when it all gets poured with the slab. I just visited the build and roof is on and we could not find one crack anywhere. I have seen my other method crack for some reason when floor is poured separate from the stem wall. I think this is actually stronger in good soils or how we put all this gravel in here and compacted it.
If it was done an an actual footing it seems it would go super fast.. Just seems to risky to me to do without a simple footing first.. You get your level tight and you can drill and epoxy in anchors drop in extra rebar where eve you need it.. Put turnbuckles to tune your lines.. Bam! Thanks for sharing..
1:27:00 This is a system we are developing ? I just saw that China is making spray more affordable. Concrete for me way below frost and grade then some China foam
frost protected shallow foundations are better in wet soils. keep the building and concrete above the water table it will last longer and the foam will stop frost penetration. not new theory at all.
"35 years experience", as a va resident im concerned about what i see 😅 but for your area i doubt youd be sharing a video for the inspector to see if it didn't meet or exceed where you are
I saw a post on You Tube about this being done in China. The guy with the hose should have had two "helpers." I'm trying to get somebody in Alaska that I am following to foam the outside of their Quonset hut after doing the inside. At least foam four feet up on the outside (as well as this Deep Foam technique around the foundation outside) to carry the Hydronic heated 10 inch slab in negative 50 degree winter temps. I think you've got something here. Gravel and perforated pipe for perimeter drainage?
@@bondobuilt386 Calling it a mono pour suggests that the floor and walls will be cast as a single piece of concrete, that doesn't appear to be what's setting up here. It might be poured on the same day, but it will be 2 unconnected pieces of concrete. A duo pour if you will: a floor, and a wall with no footings under it that is sitting on foam, and empty space wherever the foam didn't reach.
You said it’s a new process that you developed but that you had never done it before…..I presume you were referring to, for an actual customer. In Florida we build FLOATING foundations where the footer and slab are basically one big unit….floating on the sand. We do not have frost problems….how does your foundation handle or deal with frost problems in Soil?
The wood stakes create a direct path for termites. Why don't you install your rebar as you go? Why don't you use string lines and batter boards to align your walls?
Icf installer for over 15 years....question? Where r your footings? Is there a mono slab or frost wall I can't see or something.....the weight of the wall requires a proper 2ft x 6 to 8 inch thick footing to distribute the weight....
casual observation: if you trim the stakes off below the top, the hose can be moved around much easier. then doing both sides as you go around would be easier.
Bondo, how high can you build these external wall? Can you go up nine feet and end up with a finished wall that is 8 feet tall or 8 feet 6 inches? I would love to use the Fox system to create a 2,000 square foot basement and a 500 square foot garage? My questions go with your new method project you are doing with Foxblock wall units.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
As an actual licensed icf installer and also a licensed spray foam installer, I can tell you that there are countless things wrong with this way of doing things. I, like others on here, am amazed this was even considered by your building department. Just wow.
If there obviously a building wall/roof load, WHY is there not a 24" footing 8" deep on this build???... maybe the permit department did not notice your drawing showed NO footer....so, when they do an inspection before backfilling, they may surprise you by telling you to start over and get a footing under this build.......
I am also an Icf builder, and this is not how to use this product, yikes!
As someone who only learned about ICF building yesterday, this seemed extremely dubious to me as well 😂
I would never put an ICF directly on dirt like they did it here without a footer where we are in Nova Scotia. A 16" wide, 8" thick footing would be the bare minimum. But maybe their soil is very stable and if they have no frost that could also make a difference? Now if they put a second story on that 6" wall without a footing that would be crazy.
🤦♂️ Where’s your footers ???
This is going to be a great lesson to learn for everybody involved.
Thanks for taking the risk and cost in teaching everyone most likely what not to do.
But it is a strength to be willing to be wrong and keep pushing even when things dont work out AND share that outcome with everyone.
After this, many people will be able to have the experience to advise future related projects, not just theorize.
Ya it's so weird to build a thickened edge slab.that sits on compacted stone ? They been doing this since the the Stone Age. it's probably gonna just crumble under the house. . After 4 months. lnot 1 crack.in this. you need to study building science before you make comments.
I wasn't sure where you were headed with this. You sparked my curiosity. I'm not totally convinced that this is the way to go yet. I think it'll probably work ok, but I just like the tried and true method of having the foundation sitting on top of a wider footer. It distibutes the weight of the house. I do love you work and videos. You do excellent work. You may be pioneering a new way to do it. Thanks!
i wounder how strong the foam is when putting 10-20m of contrecte on top? hm... we put the walls directly on the fondation and had a floating floor inside.
The whole house can blow away now next time the winds blow. In UK this would never be allowed by “ building control”.
@@Deck1ngUKhow would it blow away? filled with concrete... what kind of wind are you expecting? over 200 mph? that's what icf tends to withstand 🤷♀️
Looking forward to Part 2 ! Always interested in different perspectives and techniques … 🇨🇦
thank you
I think i am going to have to reserve judgement on this until its completed, but so far it seems like someone is trying to reinvent the wheel & im not convinced.
I appreciate you don't always get to choose what system a client or main contractor users though & just do what you're contracted to do.
You may think that this content is a little boring because this is what you do. Many of us DIY'rs haven't seen a process like this! Thank You! Even though it looks simple, experience working with it makes it that way. Probably not as easy as you make it look.Oh yeah I subbed too. I felt like I was on the jobsite with you guys just watching.
@@walkingthruyourdata-6019 awesome and thank you for that comment 🙂
Even people that does this stuff find it interesting. I like to see how other states make us do things
As building materials such as Concrete and Labor gets more expensive sadly many builders will cut corners and may claim a poured footer is not necessary. But as we all saw in the video the bottoms of the ICF blocks had layer of foam placed inside of them and that form will compress from the structural compression load. I see a future of uneven walls and sagging floors along with constant sheet rock nail pops. The structure in this case is only being supported by the 6 inch wide sliver of concrete inside of the ICF blocks. The moisture in the ground (since it is near a wetlands area) will only exasperate the sinking and settling problems. No Thanks.
@@samgentile7494 you do not understand the finished product. It will make more sense on part 2
It looks like a joke. The only place I would omit a footing is on bedrock.
@ the house is all built and not one crack anywhere. It is just a monolithic slab after it’s all poured.
these comments are right on would have been a little better letting the concrete go to the gravel instead of foam , there is a reason footings are wider than the wall to hold the weight of the building
@@billw2168 The entire slab is a huge footing as it distributes the load. Imagine the ICF Was not even there and the house was just built on a 6" slab. It would not go anywhere. The c24" thick bond beam with double rebar just makes it crazy strong. This slab is over engineered if anything for a ranch house.
So this is an interesting approach, but honestly I think the way they do it in the nordic countries is better. The contain the entire slab in foam, including the edge beams, and pour it in one go. There's a couple of ways to do this in USA, usually DIY, but there's a few companies that do forms for it like WarmForm. That way the load is spread out like with a normal footer, too.
Edit: Also with this solution I'd think that even for a single story house you'd want 10 or 12" core at this pseudofooting to spread the load more.
Unless I'm totally off target on what you're going for. Looking forward to next video haha
I can personally vouch on how compacted the gravel is. We used pick axes and a jack hammer to open the gravel up to install the drain lines. And the concrete floor hasn't cracked.
Yes that gravel was so compacted. Hard to drive the stakes in. LOL
Looking forward to Part 2! Great videos! Thanks
This is brilliant, great time and money saver for monolithic slab on grade while reaping the benefits of ICF. Noticed a lot of commenters don't quite understand this process. Maybe you can explain it to them in your next video. Great work, as always. I may borrow this idea on my next slab build.
@sailingwiththegods538 Mono-slab with a just a thickened perimeter counts as a footing in most jurisdictions. This method would be better than that. Also geological location and house size (likely single story) are factors of consideration. He's clearly working off an approved plan. If both sides of fox-blocks are sub grade and slab to wall connection is tied with rebar well, I don't see the problem and wouldn't have an issues if it was my house, and I'm a 25+ year home builder myself.
You'd never build a house for me without footings, l can't believe any building depth would approve that
That foam locking the icf to the ground was so cool. That is going to be so air tight. I am looking into building a house in Florida and I really liked that use of the closed cell foam. I might spray a termite treatment below the icf form and the 2’ out in both direction to prevent the sub terrainian termites
There seems to be a great deal of debate of whether or not there should be a footer. I would be very interested to hear an engineer’s perspective on how to get this to pass inspection. One needs to remember the building code is a guideline, but ultimately a professional engineer can produce an alternative design that meets or exceeds building code requirements. As others have noted, precast and treated wood foundations can be built on compacted gravel without a footing.
Long Format Videos I’ve Always liked. Thank you for the Video too Bondo👌
@@josephsmith7849 some like them and some don’t. Thank you. 😊
I understand Bondo. Either way u do Quality work n I learn a lot from you.
Thank you again n take care of urself 🤙🔥🇺🇸
@@josephsmith7849 glad you are learning from the videos 👍🏻
I just started watching a few of your videos, I am by NO means a concrete guy, but You and Your guys do REALLY GOOD work.. 👍👍👍👍
Unless these people live in the backwoods, where there are no inconvenient things like building codes, and watching them move around at such slow speeds, that probably is true; then this would fail any inspection, and if no inspection is done, fail as a building quickly. You can't just spread some sand on disturbed soil , run a packer over it a little and call it good. Maybe if they are really lucky the entire structure will settle evenly. So in a year or two the house is evenly 6 inches lower than at the start.
The entire sight was dug down about 2 to 3 feet and organic material was pushed off and used for the yard. The excavator put about 7 10 wheelers of softball size cobble rock down then about 10 loads of bank run gravel on top of that then about 15 loads of a finer gravel on top of that and inside the ICF area. All this material was compacted in short lifts. of about 8" to 1 foot. Most of that work was done prior to us starting the ICF blocks. I visited the sight several tines and made sure this was done to my approval and I have worked with this excavator guy for years.
Love your videos. I’ve learned a ton.
Awesome glad to help.
Great job, Bondo, thinking outside the box. Most builders are enslaved by the system that they can't break away from the regulation regime.
wow, never seen this before, really good idea! When i built my house i used in metric 10cm 15 concrete 10cm - if id do it again id use the new blocks that has 20cm outside 15 concrete 10cm inside to make a passive house. Really good idea to do it like this!
You treat your guys good. Your a great boss to work for. Thanks👍
cheers for the new content ron
Thanks.
Congrats on 56k Bondo
You really deserve all the good things that are headed your way. Keep up the awesome work 💪
@@EarnYaBonez thank you so much. 😊
Interesting video never really did this method enjoy your hard work and good videos .
@@davidevans474 thanks it worked great. The house is already framed and roof on.
That black foam part shouldn't be glued there, they're not flush with the floor and will create a void in a too narrow surface area. The solution could be to spray foam the floor inside the ICF after it is level, and the sides have been covered with spray foam. This will prevent the uneven black foam to the ground to cave in and won't create a hole after pouring.
I took a shovel handle and smacked it down before we poured so it was all the way down to the bottom and touching the dirt below the ICF.
In the early 90s I sold urethane cfc blown foam to foamers who did a variety of applications from fishing boat holds to Controlled Atmosphere Apple storage warehouse… and the Seattle King dome roof… those were some wild and crazy times in the PNW FRP industry. .
My neighbor built a two story entire house with the blocks. Basically solid cement footings and all the walls were blocks filled with concrete. Cement siding and trim. his place will be there for 500 years.
If you don't have a spray foam gun, it is worth the investment. You have a lot more control. They cost about 70 bucks. Don't buy a 'looks like spray foam gun'. You will need a can of spray foam cleaner to clean the gun. I was told that you can leave the gun filled with foam as long as you shut the valve and leave a can on the gun, but that has definitely not worked for me. I clean the gun as soon as I am done with it.
From experience you can leave the gun for about a week before it starts to gum up. Then you plug in the cleaner. You con't need to finish a can in order to pull the can off and run the cleaner. When you run the cleaner, it doesn't do much, but just leave the can connected, and put it aside for 10 minutes. When you pick it up next the cleaner will have done its work, and a bunch of gunk comes out. Repeat until the cleaner comes out of the nozzle after a 10 minute wait.
My current project is insulating 5 shipping containers with rigid foam. I have a gun of foam construction adhesive, a gun of spray foam, and a 400 board foot 2 part froth pack.
We've used ICF's in the UK for a fair few years now, but this is the first time I've seen them bonded in place to the ground with iso-foam
Years ago 15-20, the Portland Cement Association (PCA) promoted ICF construction and the ICF systems have come along way. I have seen schools, box stores, manufacturing, & many homes built with ICF. The question of needing a footer is locally addressed. If Florida, the ICF home survives the hurricanes with less damage.
Nuttiest thing I've ever seen! You do good work but this is crazy. Also dont believe in the 2' lateral insulation in being half of your frost depth. Not in my house! Tried and true is just that for a reason.
@@brianharper6838 I think you will understand better after the next video. It’s gonna just be a mono slab. The foam will just be a form.
Very nice work I Would like to have seen a Footer
the entire thing is a footer. just visited the build and not 1 crack anywhere. you will see next video.
@ I’ll be watching
I've built slab on grade before, twice. I'm looking forward to seeing more of this concept. I'm finding it hard to see any advantage at the moment. Our shallow slab foundations were poured in a single step. Heated floor in there, so lots of prep before the pour, but I can see how you plan to support the middle of the slab?
What’s the compressive strength of that black foam?
My only thought is that’ll cause settling if that compresses under the weight of the concrete.
Still fun to watch!
It looks like a medium to high density XPS foam. I'd guess it's somewhere between 25-50psi . That would be 3600psf or more. It would take very tall walls to crush that, something like 50ft tall.
Wow. That looks next step. New stuff.
Thank you.
Interesting concept will have to learn more about it. Lots of opinions on both sides just a little surprised that no footers and very different from other buildings is this because of the high water table?
@@davidlampe4153 we are building a lot of houses on heated concrete slabs for retirement people because they are wheelchair accessible.
Wow id like to see part 3, 20 years from now to see what happens to this place 😮
Thanks Ron for another super-informative video. I'm putting in a Barndominium on a monolithic slab and this is a really interesting idea that I'll have to show my engineer. Every time I'm doing concrete work I think What Would Bondo Do?
Awesome thanks
Very interesting. Wood stakes certainly way cheaper than steel stakes. will be interesting to see what if any movement you get during the pour. Is there horizontal rebar in this wall? Confused by how much if any is in there. Using a micro rebar replacement instead mixed into the concrete?
The whole project would fail Building Control regs in UK. In the US you can do whatever you like and get away with anything!😮
very cool, you even get a thermal break
For sure thanks.
Reading the comments and taking notes. This is going to be interesting and I hope to learn something new
Interesting but not sure I would trust that method in upstate NY or where the frost line is 36”-48” below grade. I am only guessing the spray foam was required for a shallow form/foam foundation in this case?
Be dealing with drywall cracks for many years to come ... sheet rocker will blame the concrete guy and concrete guy will blame the framer
In the end it all comes back to the engineer.
Regarding the footer, to begin with, I am not a structural engineer, but the number of decades in this business, I learned a lot of stuff. I do think this is an interesting idea that reminds me of how the Superior Walls system works. If the soil conditions are right to get an extreme compaction rate, then you should be in good shape.
Like Superior Walls, I would put down at least the same type of stone they require for that top base. Which now becomes another compacted base that should meet the requirements for a footing. For those who have built or have knowledge of the Permeant Wood Foundations (“PWF”), if concrete footing is not specified, they follow basically the same type of procedure. The goal is to get that stone to work as a spread footing.
Not to questions Ron’s professionalism and knowledge which I highly respect, as he is rare breed here on RUclips, I wonder why he did not use a transition block for the bottom course to get even a larger core. Unless Fox Blocks does not have that.
Another key point to remember, that bottom piece of form in the core, should be at least 25psi. I would defiantly check with an engineer if that is enough psi and the level type of the foam. Some folks have switched over to the crushed glass stone to handle the weight. A famous example, the I-95 Bridge collapse in the city of Philadelphia several years ago. They paved right over the glass. BTW: the glass is stone is slightly over an inch thick with an R-1 rating. If you put down 12 inches of glass stone in the area underneath the concrete, you get an R-12 rating.
Thanks, Ron, for another exciting video.
😎
Glad you liked the video. This will be a monolithic slab on grade you will see ghat in the next video I cut the inside of the block down and pour it all at the same time. It is not a stem wall. Thanks for the comment. 😊
The problem with this approach is you have a complete thermal break with the soil. ICF walls have a geothermal component by pouring a footer below the frost line and setting your ICF wall on top of the poured concrete footer you have a insulated concrete wall that will conduct the constant ground temo up the concrete core of the walls 3-4 stories. By doing it the way you are building this you do not take full advantage if the ICF system we use Proform HD as your top rail of your footer and then line the inside of the footer with the Fast Foot plastic bag . This prevents ground water from moving up the inner concrete core by capillary action this prevents mold growth on the concrete. The Proform HD acts as your drainage system inside and outside of the footer. We use SCC concrete so the footer is self leveling.
Awesome video!!!
Been meaning to ask you if you have used TF Forming Systems' vertical ICF.
Thanks for the video. 👍
I have not. Thank you
I find it hard to believe that all that weight won't crush that foam on the bottom down over time resulting in an un-level structure.
foam is stronger than the ground underneath of it
Bondo team. Great work and spirit. Where are you guys located?
Central New York State. Thanks
@@bondobuilt386Where in CNY? I am in B'ville.
To me this looks way more exspensive and personally I wouldn't want any foam under the footing . I don't see the spray foam actually getting under the forms so you now have voids . I'd back up the forms with a little dirt and lay some foam board down. Will the foam compress under the building and concrete weight? Is that spray foam made for wet conditions.
Yes it will compress, but the compression will be even all around. Not sure how much though. 1/16"? That ICF wall will work as a huge beam and will even out everything.
Well this is different. Isn’t spray foam expensive?
Wondering what are you going to use for waterproofing. peel and stick will not work with foam splashed on walls...
See Polywall. They use adhesive and an adhesive membrane with a dimple mat.
Love your videos Bondo, keep up the excellent work! How can I get an Orange shirt of yours?
Thanks I need to sell merch just so busy it's hard.
A foam footer? Wow! How was this approved? Edit: Did some research and this is legit. Pretty cool!!!!
What is the compressive strength of the spray foam used under your blocks?? I believe that not using a traditional footing under these blocks is inviting a future failure.
I have seen something similar with regard to monolith slab, cutting the front of the foam ICF so slab and perimeter are one.
I have not see done with the spray foam holding in place
Do not really see the need for the bottom foam, is it for thermal break and moisture barrier?
All very interesting, I like thinking of ways to improving the process.
Cheers from Oz
the foam on bottom is so wall does not pull up cold into it. thanks.
I see the benefits of spaying in and out, but i myself would be spraying on a footer or slab.
Yeah that makes sense. I was wondering why you were sealing off the top of the block.
wow, on wetlands too...crazy
I read that a lot of viewers have concern over the lack of a "footing". I had my reservations also. But then I realized that the gravel pad that the walls are sitting on are, in essence a giant footing. IRC (International Residential Code) 403.1 states that all exterior walls need to be on a masonry, concrete, and yes, crushed stone footing. I'm assuming that is how Bondo is able to bear the wall directly on the gravel. Besides, I don't know of a jurisdiction that will permit a project that doesn't meet code, and or, is stamped by an engineer.
Theoretically you don't need any concrete at all for footing. Look at the railway tracks. All they are using for footing most places is gravel.
@@elbuggothey are designed to absorb vibration, movement and reset and are in constant need of lifting, compaction and leveling.
@@davidpayne6541 A house isn't vibrating that much, and weight much less than a train.
If you have a 25’ trailer you could build 25 foot sections in shop and then move to job site
yes true
this gentleman talks so slow that when i put it to 1.75 % that he just starts to sound like when my sister talks, helps me get through the whole video quicker but watch all the content
Imagine a home built with a spray foam base , no footer, in NEW YORK
@@williammcconnell8141 it just a monolithic slab. I just used ICF blocks for my forms.
With todays ridiculous prices not too many people have the money to build full basements or crawl spaces. This would be a great alternative for us cold climate northerners on a budget.
Wow. What a system!
The Foam Guy needs a Big Wheeled Concrete Buggy with a Vertical Fork mounted to it. Put the Hose across that and just scoot the buggy along.
Cool idea, beats cutting foam board.
Bondo, why not use a heavy roller compactor that vibrates prior setting the forms so that there will be little chance of settling thus limiting or eliminating cracking of the concrete floor or slab foundation?
@@chrisdaniel1339 we used our huge tamper. You could hardly drive a steak in there.
At the 16min mark, you're lucky Biscuit didn't give you a slap with his paw! I would have. 😂
I raised him right. He would not hit his old man. LOL
@bondobuilt386 I have to admit, I have a son that is the hardest worker I know. We are so alike, I have to kind of watch my tongue. Sometimes I kinda "belittle" him, and others, when I step in and "show" them how to do something that I know they already know what to do.
Happy crew is a productive crew!
Did you treat the ground for termites?
Hey Ron, (great name by the way). I had a couple of thoughts. You said you pushed the foam down on the bottom and its resting on the base material. What about using skewers instead of spray foam? The skewers can be pulled and reused, you'll save a ton on sprayfoam, over time, that would add up quick. The other thought was about the block to make up the correct length of the wall. What about driving rebar once length is established, to keep from shifting. Then spanning that distance with your boards. Cut ICF block to fit, secure to the 😮 spray foam the joints? Anyway, "here comes the mud....."!!😅😅
some good thoughts. Thanks.
Quick question Bondo; Won't the weight of the concrete bring the wall down and out of level?
Surprized the foam doest jack up spraying it underneath like that
It worked real nice IMO
What’s up Bondo Hope You n the Crew r Doing Good.
New Project LFG🤙🔥🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
Yeah, good luck getting 1” copper through that 45 degree fitting where it steps in higher
I think you wanted low expansion window foam it won't push anything out and "glue" plenty well.
Like the system, backfill or pour quickly or the forms may be floating
No it was rock solid.
Does the expanding foam raise the icf blocks out of place?
@@mcsmith7606 not at all
Love to find an engineer anywhere that would approve this. Or one that doesn’t look at the soils report.
No footers?
No it's a monolithic slab on grade.
@@bondobuilt386 Got ya... 🙂
@bondobuilt386 slab on grade ? Wall should sit on that slab, if any inspectors or engineers involved it this you will be taring it all out 😂😂😂
@@786otto My bad, 100% informative and professional job Bondo.
How do you keep it from frost heaving?
Hey bondo... long time viewer here and I was wondering if you could do a video on simple footers. Size , width and so forth. I am starting a 24 x24 blog soon and could use your help. I'm in tenn and our freeze line is 12 inches. Thanks and I really appreciate your experience.
I gotta say, I'm not a fan of this method. For one there's no footings, so the bottom of the wall carries the load, and that's a lot narrower and thus more prone to settling. On top of that, the ground under the forms isn't completely flat and level, so at best the house is bearing on spray foam, and I don't think they got much under the forms. If the foam strips at the bottom were free-floating at least the weight of the concrete would force them tight to the ground. Overall, this method looks to be a lot less stable than your traditional method.
The entire slab carries the load and we pushed that foam down to the bottom before we spray foamed so load goes to the ground. You will understand better in part 2 of video when it all gets poured with the slab. I just visited the build and roof is on and we could not find one crack anywhere. I have seen my other method crack for some reason when floor is poured separate from the stem wall. I think this is actually stronger in good soils or how we put all this gravel in here and compacted it.
nice system
The entire weight of the home will be resting on that black foam under the blocks. What kind of PSI rating does that black foam support?
and it appears that black foam is just floating in air since they lifted up the wall to level it. Unless I missed something.
@@akdoug6437 we push the black foam down before he spray foamed it.
@@bondobuilt386 thanks for responding. I must have gotten up and made a sandwich at that point. I missed it.
@@zmanmd1641 the weight is distributed between the rest of the slab and the ICF wall. It’s a mono pour.
@@bondobuilt386 Thanks, so the stem way is mainly for insulation down to below the frost line.
If it was done an an actual footing it seems it would go super fast.. Just seems to risky to me to do without a simple footing first.. You get your level tight and you can drill and epoxy in anchors drop in extra rebar where eve you need it.. Put turnbuckles to tune your lines.. Bam! Thanks for sharing..
1:27:00 This is a system we are developing ? I just saw that China is making spray more affordable. Concrete for me way below frost and grade then some China foam
frost protected shallow foundations are better in wet soils. keep the building and concrete above the water table it will last longer and the foam will stop frost penetration. not new theory at all.
You're providing all the evidence for a successful lawsuit.
"35 years experience", as a va resident im concerned about what i see 😅 but for your area i doubt youd be sharing a video for the inspector to see if it didn't meet or exceed where you are
I saw a post on You Tube about this being done in China. The guy with the hose should have had two "helpers." I'm trying to get somebody in Alaska that I am following to foam the outside of their Quonset hut after doing the inside. At least foam four feet up on the outside (as well as this Deep Foam technique around the foundation outside) to carry the Hydronic heated 10 inch slab in negative 50 degree winter temps. I think you've got something here. Gravel and perforated pipe for perimeter drainage?
Yes the drains will be in the next video.
No footing required?
Yes, the inspectors name is Big Biscuit. lol
it will be a slab mono pour.
@@bondobuilt386 Ah yes ,that makes sense.
@@bondobuilt386 Calling it a mono pour suggests that the floor and walls will be cast as a single piece of concrete, that doesn't appear to be what's setting up here. It might be poured on the same day, but it will be 2 unconnected pieces of concrete. A duo pour if you will: a floor, and a wall with no footings under it that is sitting on foam, and empty space wherever the foam didn't reach.
You said it’s a new process that you developed but that you had never done it before…..I presume you were referring to, for an actual customer. In Florida we build FLOATING foundations where the footer and slab are basically one big unit….floating on the sand. We do not have frost problems….how does your foundation handle or deal with frost problems in Soil?
Do you put rebar in
The wood stakes create a direct path for termites. Why don't you install your rebar as you go? Why don't you use string lines and batter boards to align your walls?
we do not have termites here. we put lots of rebar in in second video.
@bondobuilt386 where are you in the world that does not have termites? Do you have a building code?
@ upstate New York. Yes this was inspected and passed. Not one crack in it. House is built already
Do you have a preference between Fox blocks and Nudura ? 🇨🇦
Nice work brother. Can’t forget my boy ROW . 👍🏻🐶🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
26 👍's up BB thank you for sharing 🤗
You bet Scott.
Is what I am watching, making use of the ICF with some or all unfilled acting as an insulator/air gap for the monolithic slab?
Icf installer for over 15 years....question? Where r your footings? Is there a mono slab or frost wall I can't see or something.....the weight of the wall requires a proper 2ft x 6 to 8 inch thick footing to distribute the weight....
casual observation: if you trim the stakes off below the top, the hose can be moved around much easier. then doing both sides as you go around would be easier.
Bondo, how high can you build these external wall? Can you go up nine feet and end up with a finished wall that is 8 feet tall or 8 feet 6 inches? I would love to use the Fox system to create a 2,000 square foot basement and a 500 square foot garage? My questions go with your new method project you are doing with Foxblock wall units.