Hi, l recall rewiring a large domestic property during my apprenticeship in the sixties on my own with just hand tools. I can't recall how long it took to complete but there wouldn't have been such a large number of socket outlets to install like today and only basic lighting circuits with no testing involved other than possibly insulation resistance. This was done with a hand crank tester the size of a small suitcase and all transported to site on a bicycle. As they would say now those were the good old days!! Keep up the good work and stay safe.
When I started I done a 5 year apprenticeship ,1 day a week at collage and 4 days a week on the tools, done extra days at college to get my approved job card,when I turned 18 I had enough wages to hit the town on Friday and Saturday with a curry afterwards if I was still standing,there was hardly any one man bands,we all worked for company's or the local leccy board and yes hammer and balsa with wall plug tool for fixings,and on new builds hand augar for holes in the joist 👍
this is the first time I ahve seen Ruben on a video unless I forgot if he appeared on some oldies ones 😂nice work as usual, Cory does indeed bring that touch that makes it just perfect
Hi Cory, I am an electrician in America. We have Lutron Select systems too. I am surprised that they make you guys use that black box style module. In America they make the modules the same size as our switches. It is basically just replacing a switch. The hub and pico remotes are exactly the same that you guys are using. I am surprised Lutron has not come out with something that works directly with your switches. I feel bad for you guys to have to go through that installing those modules. Excellent job by the way. I totally agree with you on the licensing. It helps us a lot in America both for the customer and us electricians (sparky’s). Thanks for the videos. Gives me a whole new appreciation for our trade.
If I want a hatch to conceal something large or do some extra wiring I often cut a 4 inch hole and after cover it with a flapped extractor fan cover , it’s a placebo , no one pays any attention to it , it blends in with the wall and no one relates it to extra wiring
before the multi-tool came about, you'd drill holes and cut the material out with a jigsaw, or use a handheld router/mill. Cement based materials are hard on any tool, but you can get diamond cutting blades
Might have something to do with certain companies post tons of how to do electrics on u-tube 😁 How much damage are they doing to the industry just so they can make a quick buck off u-tube
Any reason the owner wanted to get rid of the PIRs around the property? Would have thought they're more useful than controlling the lights from your app outside? Inside I can understand?
The Lutron system has a setting where you can have the lights come on at sundown, adjusted to the different time sundown happens etc, also we had pico switches and app control so its really flexible
I have up and down lights around my garage wired to a 3 pin plug and then into a smart plug so they come on at sunset and off at a certain time. Do you know of any system that might incorporate a PIR that will also activate them say at 3am when they would normally be off? I don’t want them on all night as it’s a bit of a waste but would like them to come on if someone is detected
As a customer I agree we need equivalent to Gas Safe with levels for anybody who charges though I do my own, except part P, as I have a background in electrical installation was part of my job in telecomms so safe.
Improver here, I have come across EM key switches with 2 phases & 400v in it, unused cores just coiled inside a db inducing 80v in the accessory end and a 63A busbar with the end feed installed on the wrong end feeding the L3 and 230v into the neutral. All done by time served qualified sparks.. The whole qualification and apprenticeship system needs a rethink
excellent vt, that looked like a poxy job, you were very lucky with geting them drivers (and a choc box if you needed one) in there and i hope they dont get too wet, but it was a very realistic scenario and well executed but unfortunatly you know the next guy will come along and call you a cowboy, well done
Great video, I do feel it’s the trainers & CPS’s not setting higher standards, us apprenticeship trained sparks are deemed the same level as a 3-week installer to a client as they don’t know the differing skill levels. 📜
For the RA2 select UK inline dimmers, I use the MDCRB2WHI marshal tufflex round fast fix when putting a pendant on the system. I think it work work for some outside lighting too if the base of the wall lights were big enough. 70mm cut out.
28:02 526.5 is the relevant reg here, and tucked behind cladding board such as that wouldn't comply with that reg IMO. I can't see if it is the case here, but often lighting drivers etc have screw on pieces that enclose the connections, so the driver itself does not need enclosing. Unenclosed wagos and single insulation would be non compliant though.
So I am going to agree and disagree. It isn't exactly by the regulation but BS7671 is not statutory and does allow leeway if adequate precautions are taken. That said are those Wago's maintenance free - probably not, do they need to be - no. It comes down to what is considered accessible for maintenance/ is a tool required to gain access etc. Also if there's a membrane behind the rain screen the connections have been put behind the second weather proofing layer. All things that have to be taken into account when doing any retrofit work like this.
@@effervescence5664 from BS7671 definitions: Departure. Deliberate decision not to comply fully with the requirements of this Standard, for which the designer must declare that the resultant degree of safety is not less than that achievable by full compliance. In this case, it is not a departure, it's a non compliance. P13 of Best Practice Guide 4 gives us: Unenclosed electrical connections, such as at luminaires. (Such a defect can contribute to a fire, particularly where extra-low voltage filament lamps are used), a C2 non compliance. It also gives us a C3 for unenclosed unsheathed cores not accessible to touch. Indeed, BS7671 is not statutory, but generally not complying with it in this manner is considered a bodge. Odds are high that the lighting controllers will sit there happily for their useful life, in the same way that most bodges do, but it's still a bodge. What makes this bodge particularly unpalatable is the guy gets rented out at £80 per hour, and had just spent several minutes swinging his plod about, pontificating on how qualified he is, and how the industry needs cleaning up.
@@andrewcadby Inclined to agree, but 526.5 iii gives him a way out and argument is the controllers are fine being in a horizontal floor void above lights so a vertical void where it can't put any undue strain on the cables is no different. What he needed to show/do was provide adequate strain relief on the cables when converting from T&E to flex. The appropriate measure would have been to crimp/solder and heat shrink the joint - not use Wago's. As stated it's a guideline not statutory and a minimum level of standard to ensure safety unless measures outside the box can meet the minimum safety. Sadly unlike working with Gas there's more than one way to skin a cat with electrics with arguably too much leeway. The unfortunate thing is where electrics is concerned upgrading or re-running can become so cost prohibitive to more harshly enforce regulations would just cause people to not invest.
@@effervescence5664 you misinterpret 526 (iii): An enclosure partially formed or completed with building material which is non-combustible when tested to BS 476-4. This does not permit a partial enclosure such as an open niche in the wall. The enclosure still has to be complete, but part of it can be from a non combustible material. An example might be a metallic ceiling light with a hollow base fitted against a plasterboard ceiling - the plasterboard completes the enclosure. Agree with your other points. Crimping and a couple of layers of heatshrink would indeed be a good fix for this, to reinstate both the insulation and sheath. I like self amalgamating tape for this, one size fits all and it can be applied after the joint is formed.
Soffits are sometimes useful for hiding your enclosures, then fish the cable behind the cladding. As electricians, we always have to hide everything we do. Even a little run of cable along a wall seems to upset some home owners. But they always accept great big plumbing pipes and drainpipes everywhere. I always try to leave a job feeling happy about what I've done. Nagging doubts about a solution to a problem, will continue to nag. Trust you gut instincts, and if it don't feel right , don't do it. Easy to say that though, I know what its like out on site, with pressure to get the job done.
Having a jib gold card means nothing, i use to work for agencies in london and ive seen so many sparks with a gold card that dont know know how to wire up an intermediate switch
I couldn't agree more, a couple of electricians messed up my wall switches and had no idea the lights didn't have neutrals in them. I ended up feeding them from my box room and tidied my late dad's cowboy wiring (my cooker wasn't earthed for 2 decades and there was an exposed live next to the gas box). All with cheapo screwfix and toolstation stuff. Car chargers are going to be in extreme demand so sparks have endless work.
I have gas and sparks qualifications (full AM2 apprenticeship and gas short course). when I worked abroad the AM2 route was the only one that transferred to places like the USA none of the short courses are, so I only had to take a voltage conversion test. Gas is recognized across the globe as it is standardized, the thing with Gas though is regardless of how you get in you all have to pass the same exams to work on size installation/pipe work / appliances. So if you don't have the ticket for that type, you can't work on it and it can lead to jail time. Sparking does need a similar set up honestly.
With the addition of power tools and multi tools from back in the day you would expect rewires to be quicker. But with the addition now of Mobile Phones, and half the time this being a distraction, that made up time is now lost.
It's a shame the lights aren't vertical because they have to be at the angle of the cladding boards. Don't suppose there's a way of straightening them? Cheers
As always thanks for the nice video! A wish from my side: Can you please increase the gain? Cory is sometimes hard to understand, especially on mobile devices with no active speakers attached 😉
Why couldn’t you have fitted an IP rated box high level just below the soffit externally for the controller and fished the cables behind the the facia,Wago also produces a terminal box which would have small enough to make the connections off
I'm looking at getting an oscillating multi tool myself. Prior to that the trick would be to drill holes in each corner and then connect the dots with either a jigsaw or handsaw. I was cutting into a "TIP" wall for a data Jack and oh boy was that plyboard solid, I ended up hand sawing it. I didn't want to do too much damage to the finished wall and I didn't know where anything was inside other than there's insulation behind the wood behind the drywall. TIP is a Lego system tape wall system that I heard about but never encountered before.
Back in my school days my mates dad was an ex RAF technician who taught me electrics, repairing old valve radios (his hobby /work was radio etc) and I had to do extensive maths/science and more in a stack of notebooks and when you are working on valves ? All of the calculations re grid voltages, negative voltages, anode / cathode and so it went on for calculating, testing before you even started on all of the other aspects of oscillators/ frequency changers. coils, capacitors, resistors and and and ... then of course transistors, micro chips etc. TV systems with K volts ie 7.5 K that rattled your teeth or fried you 😶🤣🤣 but when I was working for a company that produced 450V triple phase control units (50 - 200Amps) uhh noo thankyou re feeling the positive effects on those 😶🙄🤣Overall I can say early years the amount of technical jargon that was needed to pass exams etc was ludicrous. I think these days they do tend to concentrate on the essentials and take out a lot of the 'spam' or even BS which originated from those post WW2 writers on electrical tech who dominated the exam boards for IEE etc Crazy questions that had little or nothing to do with most of what you would ever be involved in or NEVER gonna use or need even back in the 80s. Test gear lets face it has become fantastic. Smaller, lighter and way more accurate. I still have some of my original valve test gear ie frequency generator/alignment tools etc and damm that thing weighs a ton Uhh well OK feels like it 😶🤣No comparison to my digital frequency generator/tester. Now I build computer units for my daughters or my nieces and nephews which for me is a breeze. From the off re my earlier career choices I've never ever really been out of work or something to do. Knowledge is without doubt a powerful ally but experience I think sometimes outweighs it all. Over the years I've put aerials systems up on roofs so damm high it makes you dizzy 😶🙄 'Oh and by the way can you take the chimney down to a lower level and seal if off for me, fix a ventilation brick, that would be greatly appreciated, here comes the mortar and ' I kid you not! 👀 Alarm, satellite installation and alignments, outside lighting to name but a few activities. 'You got anything on this weekend dad.' AAARGH uh am I smiling when I think of lock down 😶🤣🤣
Good honest vid prob not completely to regs but good sparks leave safe jobs and didn't see any probs there electrically. only thing for me is definitely would have avoided cutting the dpc especially if inner walls are solid
Sorry to bang on (third post this video) but I’ve had a few beers. The recognition you get is in the money you earn. A well trained electrician with desirable qualifications will get paid more, both self employed and PAYE.
How do the controllers hidden in the walls meet the reg that all junctions must be accessible for maintenance or must be maintenance free? Will you leave a note at the CU explaining what's hidden in the cavity?
Hi, firstly I like the fact that yo mentioned in the video that we need a organisation for electricians so we can properly charge according to our respective qualifications cause the is a wide range when coming to this profession and you find alot of chancers ........im Mpumelelo from south Africa by the way ur work is impressive I wonder how mich you charge for the work you do amd if theres any complaints form the client when you get to site and actually find out the job is 10 times harder than what the client said (because they dont undersatand the work thats put in to find faults)
Good to see Corey is Converted into a fellow Hueligan at last.😃👍🏼 I've been drinking it for lunch for around 3 Years now (as a way of saving money whilst always feeling full) and it does the trick! What's Corey's go to Huel making technique so far? :)
In case of passive or near passive houses... penetrating membranes is not acceptable. Even making holes for cables. One cable per hole, must be airproof (aka IP67)
Decent job, but moisture could be a issue. Could you not of put a 160mm x 50mm white wiska adaptable box next to the light fitting to keep the Lutron controller in? Could of used the box to hide the old screws holes too. I know it wouldn't look great but then you know water ingress wouldn't be an issue.
White plastic adaptable box mounted to fascia lutron controller in box light mounted to front of adaptable box don't think I would have put them in a cavity + stainless steel washers behind adaptable box to bring light back to plumb rather than being at a strange angle
Fully agree with you about a unified system for identifying tradesmen, however implementation would be very difficult because of the nature of training and its implementation over the last 40 years . In the in the 1970's into early 90's there was no requirement to attend college you just learned on site from other skilled craftsmen.
sadly college is waste of time as they teach you close to nothing regarding installation work... Been there just for a piece of paper really... It all depends on the way how you are being mentored at the start of your trade... Though it is easier than 10 yrs ago with all those videos on you tube :)
@@therzook I disagree college has its place , it brings uniformity to the methodology of basic training , it sets a platform from which the trainee can work from that everyone can understand , also helps to bring uniformity to installation works across all trades which is a win win for everyone.
A tone tracer is a much safer way of tracing wires. The risks might be very low but Cory is out of sight of live wires with no control over who may walk past them.
For the customer the current registration system is wholly confusing and you’re not the only one on RUclips recommending that system of cards. Having seen the horror stories of bodges shown all over RUclips I think it’s long overdue an overhaul.
Hi if the outside lights are all on one or two circuits the surely you could install the new controllers at the consumer unit end of the circuit. This is not a Criticism just an idea easy to be an armchair electrician. I would love to know what you think
"con" is an apt description of the CPS. It's a hot topic in the industry at the moment but only among the tradesmen because they are time served with proper qualifications but are having to compete with 6 week wonders and Dave from down the road who wired up an oven once. I think that card system would work basically the same as a driving license but I also think that banning those quick courses and removing the CPS all together is what should be done as well and to make it illegal to work on an electrical installation if you are unlicensed. Have 1 body the JIB and they issue you with your license based on what qualifications you have achieved. If you don't get a license you can't work as an electrician atall and If you do then not only you but also the customer who employed you are liable. How it would be enforced I don't know but thats my 2p
Stitch drill then cut for holes. RE: Wago's in walls. I know it's not the end of the world but if you're trying to show people how to do it right then that's not right! got to be whiter than white if you're posting vids on here. Maybe find a place inside above the switch to fit an appropriate enclosure for the device to fit in. Where there's a will there's a way! Thanks
@@artisanelectrics I did something about 5/6 years ago in some big houses in Ascot but it was with Rako where we put at the start of the run of the downlights .we had in some rooms 5A sockets and used something that went into the back of the first k.o box but it had to be 47mm to take the inline device and socket plate. Lutron must do something similar but how practical it is to install a deeper box not sure.
@@artisanelectrics The video gave the impression of far more, if he only needed to fit two (assuming two start points) why where the blades wearing out?
The only other way of doing it would have been to put a decorative cap that sticks out enough to hide the controller and strong enough to secure the light fitting to
Yeah!And then people think:well i put a plastic bag around it,that will keep it dry..Wrong wrong!!You keep the summer air in that bag and,in winter when its cold all that moisture from the summer will change in droplits and your controller will bath in water!
Depends if Lutron rate them for outside or not, also it's not just behind the cladding he has also put it tucked behind the weather wrap - 2 layers in from any potential driving rain. Thus the only issue could be ingress of moisture in the air - hence cladding systems are vented top and bottom. When doing anything like that a holistic view needs to be taken and not just a snap shot of an individual trade.
Qualifications are a sign of learning, though learning is not linked to qualifications. licensing means nothing if there are no inspections. Inspections are the only way to ensure that quality of work is assured. Though we do have a problem here in the US inspectors and electricians can become too comfortable and that can also means standards slip. Being a master or journeyman electrician doesn’t mean a thing if your attention to detail and quality is just poor. Commitment to High quality electrical comes from within. That can be delivered by professional electricians or an engineer willing to put the learning in to ensure regulations, standards and listed equipment is used and their work is fully inspected and signed off. The problem is many electricians are just to time constrained and will cut corners for doing a job. That’s the issue that needs to be addressed.
Not a bad idea in theory I work for a smallish company and do my own work as well, we do a lot of office refurbishment and some of the work that you see is shocking. But my friend works on big new build projects apartment blocks and offices, they have electricians with gold cards but some of them are completely rubbish they have passed the course but there actually work is not that good at all. Now I have been doing this for close to 14years been to collage but never had to do my gold card which I am going to do this year, I think that the training needs to change because otherwise we will have a card system with a load of sparks who might be just as bad as a diyer. I think the system definitely needs to be simplified and all these money making bodies that don't actually do much are not needed. I also think all the 6 week and you will be an electrician courses should be banned you can learn nothing in that time, you need to work for years in the real world to actually learn. Also if you stitch drill it first it will make it a lot easier to use your pad or jab saw, basically dill a load of holes as close as possible in the shape you want to cut out and the just cut the small remaining bit in-between the holes with your saw. Good video but the card and governing bodies topic is a hard one and I am not sure what the best solution is but I agree it needs to be changed.
Probably on the same circuit as other lighting.. I for one wouldn't have 2 separate circuits for outside lights then another circuit for downstairs lighting etc. It'll all be one circuit with the drops for the switches for each room/light(s).
@@ryanallen3704 Interesting, because I would have a separate circuit for outside lights due to the fact they are more likely to trip an RCBO in the event of any water ingress. This would also be more likely to happen at night when they come on, and you don't want to be plunging the rest of the house into darkness.
Inflation is the exact reason, and it’s not that labor costs aren’t coming down, they’re going up. Inflation is destroying people’s purchasing power and it’s only getting worse, next up.... hyperinflation. Prepare accordingly.
So you put something that isn’t in a double enclosure into a wet wall. And it’s full of electronics. 🙈. That’s what a diyer would do. It’s not going to last is it?
Blank plate next to the light switch would have been my option. Once it’s there a few weeks owner will never notice. Always accessible and dry. Being scared to cut the wall inside is just crazy. We cut walls everyday never knowing what’s behind really. Just take you’re time.
Don't feel so bad about those qualifications. I just found out my state senator wants to do away with licensing for electricians, plumbers, ETC. I guess I don't know if I need to get a license then, I've always wanted to be licensed. But it's gonna be a mess for the homeowners who if they check still don't know who to get who is actually qualified. And those that are qualified are pretty much going to get run out of business, by our equivalent of the kitchen fitter. I don't even know why because as a homeowner (in most of the US) you are fully allowed to do stuff yourself and get it inspected hopefully, so it literally is only going to be a free-for-all for anybody to call themselves qualified. But hey he also wants to get rid of property taxes, I suspect because he has a lot to pay this year?
We were sold down the river with one Word competent you have to be competent to carry out a task not qualified but competent hence customers/ clients do not want to pay for qualifications that are not needed .when I Did my 17th edition the classroom was full of young guys who weren't qualified why were they doing it ? Because their boss could then legally say they were competent to work supervised under a qualified electrician doing Commercial kitchen refits If I remember correctly hey presto a cheaper workforce and You can be Damm certain he wasn't charging them out as electricians Mates or improvers but as fully qualified electricians then if something went wrong yes judge he was competent having achieved the 17th edition wiring regulations If they said legally you have to be qualified to carry out electrical works and not just competent then perhaps uncle Dave might think twice about installing an electric shower using flex or at least maybe his neice Might Think twice about asking him That power lies with the IET
Back in the day when builders were knocking up an extension the customer would ask if they new any electricians to wire it ....it’s alright mate , me and seamus can do that for yer... And there was a lot of that going on.....one job I had customer put two wall lights on every wall . 8 cables in total and all wired to centre of room....walls now plastered....8 cables + 3 plate....
Hi, l recall rewiring a large domestic property during my apprenticeship in the sixties on my own with just hand tools. I can't recall how long it took to complete but there wouldn't have been such a large number of socket outlets to install like today and only basic lighting circuits with no testing involved other than possibly insulation resistance. This was done with a hand crank tester the size of a small suitcase and all transported to site on a bicycle. As they would say now those were the good old days!! Keep up the good work and stay safe.
Best sparky videos by far on RUclips.
Love the mix of different jobs and not just EICRs all the time.
Cheers Jordan and Cory.
Thanks!
When I started I done a 5 year apprenticeship ,1 day a week at collage and 4 days a week on the tools, done extra days at college to get my approved job card,when I turned 18 I had enough wages to hit the town on Friday and Saturday with a curry afterwards if I was still standing,there was hardly any one man bands,we all worked for company's or the local leccy board and yes hammer and balsa with wall plug tool for fixings,and on new builds hand augar for holes in the joist 👍
Love it you’re keeping it real, live circuit and volt stick > dead circuit and wander lead.
this is the first time I ahve seen Ruben on a video unless I forgot if he appeared on some oldies ones 😂nice work as usual, Cory does indeed bring that touch that makes it just perfect
Multi-tool blades designed for tile grout removal works best I’ve found. They still wear out but last much longer than typical wood rated blades.
Hi Cory, I am an electrician in America. We have Lutron Select systems too. I am surprised that they make you guys use that black box style module. In America they make the modules the same size as our switches. It is basically just replacing a switch. The hub and pico remotes are exactly the same that you guys are using. I am surprised Lutron has not come out with something that works directly with your switches. I feel bad for you guys to have to go through that installing those modules. Excellent job by the way. I totally agree with you on the licensing. It helps us a lot in America both for the customer and us electricians (sparky’s). Thanks for the videos. Gives me a whole new appreciation for our trade.
If I want a hatch to conceal something large or do some extra wiring I often cut a 4 inch hole and after cover it with a flapped extractor fan cover , it’s a placebo , no one pays any attention to it , it blends in with the wall and no one relates it to extra wiring
before the multi-tool came about, you'd drill holes and cut the material out with a jigsaw, or use a handheld router/mill. Cement based materials are hard on any tool, but you can get diamond cutting blades
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Tradify is a great software, however at £19.00 per user it can soon become to expensive for a small team.
Thumbs up for an ASMR of this boys voice 😍🥵
Haha 👍
Great work Cory, I agree with a certain level of qualifications, seems like today everyone says "I can do electrical work" 👍🤘💪
Might have something to do with certain companies post tons of how to do electrics on u-tube 😁
How much damage are they doing to the industry just so they can make a quick buck off u-tube
My mum said she could do electrical work, that scared me.
Any reason the owner wanted to get rid of the PIRs around the property? Would have thought they're more useful than controlling the lights from your app outside? Inside I can understand?
The Lutron system has a setting where you can have the lights come on at sundown, adjusted to the different time sundown happens etc, also we had pico switches and app control so its really flexible
@@artisanelectrics nice! Makes sense
I have up and down lights around my garage wired to a 3 pin plug and then into a smart plug so they come on at sunset and off at a certain time. Do you know of any system that might incorporate a PIR that will also activate them say at 3am when they would normally be off? I don’t want them on all night as it’s a bit of a waste but would like them to come on if someone is detected
Great Job!!! Cory! Thumb up! Cheer!
Thanks!
As a customer I agree we need equivalent to Gas Safe with levels for anybody who charges though I do my own, except part P, as I have a background in electrical installation was part of my job in telecomms so safe.
Great work Corey!
Thanks!
When you say the good old days it wasn't it hard graft.
Power tools testing equipment and modern regs is the only way
Improver here, I have come across EM key switches with 2 phases & 400v in it, unused cores just coiled inside a db inducing 80v in the accessory end and a 63A busbar with the end feed installed on the wrong end feeding the L3 and 230v into the neutral. All done by time served qualified sparks.. The whole qualification and apprenticeship system needs a rethink
You should be using a cable tracker to trace were cables go , then you won't need to make cables live to find out were they go.
Its Cory, he knows what he's doing
excellent vt, that looked like a poxy job, you were very lucky with geting them drivers (and a choc box if you needed one) in there and i hope they dont get too wet, but it was a very realistic scenario and well executed but unfortunatly you know the next guy will come along and call you a cowboy, well done
Thanks 👍
This is my bread and butter as a diyer atm. Most of my house is smart controlled
Also. The type of relay control i use. Allows for external switching. So wall switches can be used as normal. Yet have full automative control.
Did i see some Bang & Olufsen BeoLab 18 `s All i can say is super style and sound.
Great video, I do feel it’s the trainers & CPS’s not setting higher standards, us apprenticeship trained sparks are deemed the same level as a 3-week installer to a client as they don’t know the differing skill levels. 📜
For the RA2 select UK inline dimmers, I use the MDCRB2WHI marshal tufflex round fast fix when putting a pendant on the system. I think it work work for some outside lighting too if the base of the wall lights were big enough. 70mm cut out.
28:02 526.5 is the relevant reg here, and tucked behind cladding board such as that wouldn't comply with that reg IMO. I can't see if it is the case here, but often lighting drivers etc have screw on pieces that enclose the connections, so the driver itself does not need enclosing. Unenclosed wagos and single insulation would be non compliant though.
Totally agree , not allowed
So I am going to agree and disagree. It isn't exactly by the regulation but BS7671 is not statutory and does allow leeway if adequate precautions are taken. That said are those Wago's maintenance free - probably not, do they need to be - no. It comes down to what is considered accessible for maintenance/ is a tool required to gain access etc.
Also if there's a membrane behind the rain screen the connections have been put behind the second weather proofing layer. All things that have to be taken into account when doing any retrofit work like this.
@@effervescence5664 from BS7671 definitions:
Departure. Deliberate decision not to comply fully with the requirements of this Standard, for which the designer
must declare that the resultant degree of safety is not less than that achievable by full compliance.
In this case, it is not a departure, it's a non compliance.
P13 of Best Practice Guide 4 gives us:
Unenclosed electrical connections, such as
at luminaires. (Such a defect can contribute
to a fire, particularly where extra-low voltage
filament lamps are used), a C2 non compliance.
It also gives us a C3 for unenclosed unsheathed cores not accessible to touch.
Indeed, BS7671 is not statutory, but generally not complying with it in this manner is considered a bodge. Odds are high that the lighting controllers will sit there happily for their useful life, in the same way that most bodges do, but it's still a bodge. What makes this bodge particularly unpalatable is the guy gets rented out at £80 per hour, and had just spent several minutes swinging his plod about, pontificating on how qualified he is, and how the industry needs cleaning up.
@@andrewcadby Inclined to agree, but 526.5 iii gives him a way out and argument is the controllers are fine being in a horizontal floor void above lights so a vertical void where it can't put any undue strain on the cables is no different. What he needed to show/do was provide adequate strain relief on the cables when converting from T&E to flex. The appropriate measure would have been to crimp/solder and heat shrink the joint - not use Wago's. As stated it's a guideline not statutory and a minimum level of standard to ensure safety unless measures outside the box can meet the minimum safety.
Sadly unlike working with Gas there's more than one way to skin a cat with electrics with arguably too much leeway. The unfortunate thing is where electrics is concerned upgrading or re-running can become so cost prohibitive to more harshly enforce regulations would just cause people to not invest.
@@effervescence5664 you misinterpret 526 (iii): An enclosure partially formed or completed with building material which is non-combustible when tested to BS 476-4.
This does not permit a partial enclosure such as an open niche in the wall. The enclosure still has to be complete, but part of it can be from a non combustible material. An example might be a metallic ceiling light with a hollow base fitted against a plasterboard ceiling - the plasterboard completes the enclosure.
Agree with your other points. Crimping and a couple of layers of heatshrink would indeed be a good fix for this, to reinstate both the insulation and sheath. I like self amalgamating tape for this, one size fits all and it can be applied after the joint is formed.
Soffits are sometimes useful for hiding your enclosures, then fish the cable behind the cladding.
As electricians, we always have to hide everything we do. Even a little run of cable along a wall seems to upset some home owners. But they always accept great big plumbing pipes and drainpipes everywhere. I always try to leave a job feeling happy about what I've done. Nagging doubts about a solution to a problem, will continue to nag. Trust you gut instincts, and if it don't feel right , don't do it. Easy to say that though, I know what its like out on site, with pressure to get the job done.
Bt chucking cables in, we have a broad ranging real skill
Having a jib gold card means nothing, i use to work for agencies in london and ive seen so many sparks with a gold card that dont know know how to wire up an intermediate switch
A what?😀
I couldn't agree more, a couple of electricians messed up my wall switches and had no idea the lights didn't have neutrals in them. I ended up feeding them from my box room and tidied my late dad's cowboy wiring (my cooker wasn't earthed for 2 decades and there was an exposed live next to the gas box). All with cheapo screwfix and toolstation stuff. Car chargers are going to be in extreme demand so sparks have endless work.
I have gas and sparks qualifications (full AM2 apprenticeship and gas short course). when I worked abroad the AM2 route was the only one that transferred to places like the USA none of the short courses are, so I only had to take a voltage conversion test. Gas is recognized across the globe as it is standardized, the thing with Gas though is regardless of how you get in you all have to pass the same exams to work on size installation/pipe work / appliances. So if you don't have the ticket for that type, you can't work on it and it can lead to jail time. Sparking does need a similar set up honestly.
With the addition of power tools and multi tools from back in the day you would expect rewires to be quicker. But with the addition now of Mobile Phones, and half the time this being a distraction, that made up time is now lost.
Great video. This is why I went with Philips Hue rather than Lutron, as their bulbs contain the receivers and so I didn't have any of this hassle.
That nut driver will drive you nuts! 😂
LOL
It's nutoriously 😏 for it's handiness😁
It's a shame the lights aren't vertical because they have to be at the angle of the cladding boards. Don't suppose there's a way of straightening them? Cheers
Get another feather edged board and cut to size then flip it to make it square, if you get what I mean?
I think that is the pearl grey Hardie plank board. It is hard on cutting tools. It's composite fibre cement. Diamond cutting bits worked for me.
As always thanks for the nice video!
A wish from my side: Can you please increase the gain?
Cory is sometimes hard to understand, especially on mobile devices with no active speakers attached 😉
I see reuben is back for more 😎
Yep!
Awesome job guys 😎
great video as usual :)
Thanks!
Why couldn’t you have fitted an IP rated box high level just below the soffit externally for the controller and fished the cables behind the the facia,Wago also produces a terminal box which would have small enough to make the connections off
Bosch do a carbide range of multi-tool bits for cutting everything.
If you had fitted the lights lower it may have covered the holes. Holes at the top maynot be so obvious. But fill them still
I'm looking at getting an oscillating multi tool myself. Prior to that the trick would be to drill holes in each corner and then connect the dots with either a jigsaw or handsaw. I was cutting into a "TIP" wall for a data Jack and oh boy was that plyboard solid, I ended up hand sawing it. I didn't want to do too much damage to the finished wall and I didn't know where anything was inside other than there's insulation behind the wood behind the drywall. TIP is a Lego system tape wall system that I heard about but never encountered before.
Back in my school days my mates dad was an ex RAF technician who taught me electrics, repairing old valve radios (his hobby /work was radio etc) and I had to do extensive maths/science and more in a stack of notebooks and when you are working on valves ? All of the calculations re grid voltages, negative voltages, anode / cathode and so it went on for calculating, testing before you even started on all of the other aspects of oscillators/ frequency changers. coils, capacitors, resistors and and and ... then of course transistors, micro chips etc. TV systems with K volts ie 7.5 K that rattled your teeth or fried you 😶🤣🤣 but when I was working for a company that produced 450V triple phase control units (50 - 200Amps) uhh noo thankyou re feeling the positive effects on those 😶🙄🤣Overall I can say early years the amount of technical jargon that was needed to pass exams etc was ludicrous. I think these days they do tend to concentrate on the essentials and take out a lot of the 'spam' or even BS which originated from those post WW2 writers on electrical tech who dominated the exam boards for IEE etc Crazy questions that had little or nothing to do with most of what you would ever be involved in or NEVER gonna use or need even back in the 80s. Test gear lets face it has become fantastic. Smaller, lighter and way more accurate. I still have some of my original valve test gear ie frequency generator/alignment tools etc and damm that thing weighs a ton Uhh well OK feels like it 😶🤣No comparison to my digital frequency generator/tester. Now I build computer units for my daughters or my nieces and nephews which for me is a breeze. From the off re my earlier career choices I've never ever really been out of work or something to do. Knowledge is without doubt a powerful ally but experience I think sometimes outweighs it all. Over the years I've put aerials systems up on roofs so damm high it makes you dizzy 😶🙄 'Oh and by the way can you take the chimney down to a lower level and seal if off for me, fix a ventilation brick, that would be greatly appreciated, here comes the mortar and ' I kid you not! 👀 Alarm, satellite installation and alignments, outside lighting to name but a few activities. 'You got anything on this weekend dad.' AAARGH uh am I smiling when I think of lock down 😶🤣🤣
Good trick to play on a sparky...go around the house when they can't see switching things on and off I clouding rcd switches
Good honest vid prob not completely to regs but good sparks leave safe jobs and didn't see any probs there electrically. only thing for me is definitely would have avoided cutting the dpc especially if inner walls are solid
Thanks 👍
Sorry to bang on (third post this video) but I’ve had a few beers. The recognition you get is in the money you earn. A well trained electrician with desirable qualifications will get paid more, both self employed and PAYE.
How do the controllers hidden in the walls meet the reg that all junctions must be accessible for maintenance or must be maintenance free? Will you leave a note at the CU explaining what's hidden in the cavity?
Delroy would have some old school storys
Hi, firstly I like the fact that yo mentioned in the video that we need a organisation for electricians so we can properly charge according to our respective qualifications cause the is a wide range when coming to this profession and you find alot of chancers ........im Mpumelelo from south Africa by the way ur work is impressive I wonder how mich you charge for the work you do amd if theres any complaints form the client when you get to site and actually find out the job is 10 times harder than what the client said (because they dont undersatand the work thats put in to find faults)
For connections in confined spaces without leaving individual terminals exposed have you considered the quickwire products?
Old school drilled holes then cut through with a saw!!
21:00 stitch drill with small drill bit and smash it with a hammer
Ok I’m getting old. 😂. A controller behind every light ?
No. Behind each run/leg..
Some boy tbf 👌
Good to see Corey is Converted into a fellow Hueligan at last.😃👍🏼 I've been drinking it for lunch for around 3 Years now (as a way of saving money whilst always feeling full) and it does the trick! What's Corey's go to Huel making technique so far? :)
I haven’t got a formal electrickery qualification I’ve learned how to do it by watching RUclips videos. 👍
Could you not replace the internal switch with a deep pattress box, to fit the controller in, with a blanking plate over it?
Drill a series of holes and then cut between them or it can snap off if you are luck!
In case of passive or near passive houses... penetrating membranes is not acceptable. Even making holes for cables. One cable per hole, must be airproof (aka IP67)
I'm with you Corey on the OCD at 15:48 !
J dropped the box in a previous video 😆
Yep 🤦♂️
Decent job, but moisture could be a issue. Could you not of put a 160mm x 50mm white wiska adaptable box next to the light fitting to keep the Lutron controller in? Could of used the box to hide the old screws holes too. I know it wouldn't look great but then you know water ingress wouldn't be an issue.
White plastic adaptable box mounted to fascia lutron controller in box light mounted to front of adaptable box don't think I would have put them in a cavity + stainless steel washers behind adaptable box to bring light back to plumb rather than being at a strange angle
Adaptable boxes on the outside of properties look horrible tho
Fully agree with you about a unified system for identifying tradesmen, however implementation would be very difficult because of the nature of training and its implementation over the last 40 years . In the in the 1970's into early 90's there was no requirement to attend college you just learned on site from other skilled craftsmen.
sadly college is waste of time as they teach you close to nothing regarding installation work... Been there just for a piece of paper really... It all depends on the way how you are being mentored at the start of your trade... Though it is easier than 10 yrs ago with all those videos on you tube :)
@@therzook I disagree college has its place , it brings uniformity to the methodology of basic training , it sets a platform from which the trainee can work from that everyone can understand , also helps to bring uniformity to installation works across all trades which is a win win for everyone.
I believe Jordon had a slight accident for those ferrals to be all messed up. Remember he pays for your vegan delights.
Haha thanks for sticking up for me. I just bought a new case of ferrules now!
A tone tracer is a much safer way of tracing wires. The risks might be very low but Cory is out of sight of live wires with no control over who may walk past them.
For the customer the current registration system is wholly confusing and you’re not the only one on RUclips recommending that system of cards. Having seen the horror stories of bodges shown all over RUclips I think it’s long overdue an overhaul.
Hi if the outside lights are all on one or two circuits the surely you could install the new controllers at the consumer unit end of the circuit. This is not a Criticism just an idea easy to be an armchair electrician. I would love to know what you think
They are on the same circuit as the lights inside so not possible to do it that way
"con" is an apt description of the CPS.
It's a hot topic in the industry at the moment but only among the tradesmen because they are time served with proper qualifications but are having to compete with 6 week wonders and Dave from down the road who wired up an oven once.
I think that card system would work basically the same as a driving license but I also think that banning those quick courses and removing the CPS all together is what should be done as well and to make it illegal to work on an electrical installation if you are unlicensed.
Have 1 body the JIB and they issue you with your license based on what qualifications you have achieved.
If you don't get a license you can't work as an electrician atall and If you do then not only you but also the customer who employed you are liable. How it would be enforced I don't know but thats my 2p
Stitch drill then cut for holes.
RE: Wago's in walls. I know it's not the end of the world but if you're trying to show people how to do it right then that's not right! got to be whiter than white if you're posting vids on here. Maybe find a place inside above the switch to fit an appropriate enclosure for the device to fit in. Where there's a will there's a way!
Thanks
Was it one unit at the start of each run or one per light?
One at the start of each run
@@artisanelectrics I did something about 5/6 years ago in some big houses in Ascot but it was with Rako where we put at the start of the run of the downlights .we had in some rooms 5A sockets and used something that went into the back of the first k.o box but it had to be 47mm to take the inline device and socket plate. Lutron must do something similar but how practical it is to install a deeper box not sure.
@@artisanelectrics The video gave the impression of far more, if he only needed to fit two (assuming two start points) why where the blades wearing out?
There were 4 runs in total
Good video as always guys, though rather than a electrical question... what’s the outro song? 😃
Cory the genius !!
The problem is that there a JIB gold card sparkies that are more of a cowboy than a builder.
The only other way of doing it would have been to put a decorative cap that sticks out enough to hide the controller and strong enough to secure the light fitting to
What make/model are the outside lights/do you have a link to purchase?
do you have the PLEJD system in england ?
The control box just shoved behind the cladding seems like a very bad idea. Moisture will get to it eventually.
Yeah!And then people think:well i put a plastic bag around it,that will keep it dry..Wrong wrong!!You keep the summer air in that bag and,in winter when its cold all that moisture from the summer will change in droplits and your controller will bath in water!
Depends if Lutron rate them for outside or not, also it's not just behind the cladding he has also put it tucked behind the weather wrap - 2 layers in from any potential driving rain. Thus the only issue could be ingress of moisture in the air - hence cladding systems are vented top and bottom. When doing anything like that a holistic view needs to be taken and not just a snap shot of an individual trade.
Behind the socket inside would have been better.
HSS Drill?
Why did you need to put one lutron per light fitting, wouldn't one have done all?
We only did one per switch group
Qualifications are a sign of learning, though learning is not linked to qualifications.
licensing means nothing if there are no inspections. Inspections are the only way to ensure that quality of work is assured.
Though we do have a problem here in the US inspectors and electricians can become too comfortable and that can also means standards slip.
Being a master or journeyman electrician doesn’t mean a thing if your attention to detail and quality is just poor.
Commitment to High quality electrical comes from within. That can be delivered by professional electricians or an engineer willing to put the learning in to ensure regulations, standards and listed equipment is used and their work is fully inspected and signed off.
The problem is many electricians are just to time constrained and will cut corners for doing a job. That’s the issue that needs to be addressed.
How did you know it was a 'honey' bee?
Not a bad idea in theory I work for a smallish company and do my own work as well, we do a lot of office refurbishment and some of the work that you see is shocking. But my friend works on big new build projects apartment blocks and offices, they have electricians with gold cards but some of them are completely rubbish they have passed the course but there actually work is not that good at all. Now I have been doing this for close to 14years been to collage but never had to do my gold card which I am going to do this year, I think that the training needs to change because otherwise we will have a card system with a load of sparks who might be just as bad as a diyer. I think the system definitely needs to be simplified and all these money making bodies that don't actually do much are not needed. I also think all the 6 week and you will be an electrician courses should be banned you can learn nothing in that time, you need to work for years in the real world to actually learn. Also if you stitch drill it first it will make it a lot easier to use your pad or jab saw, basically dill a load of holes as close as possible in the shape you want to cut out and the just cut the small remaining bit in-between the holes with your saw. Good video but the card and governing bodies topic is a hard one and I am not sure what the best solution is but I agree it needs to be changed.
Could you not have removed the switch back box and slide the receiver into the wall at the side of each switch
Boy I'm early
So it was a single controller per span, and there was two spans thus two controllers. Why not just put them inside at the CU end?
Probably on the same circuit as other lighting.. I for one wouldn't have 2 separate circuits for outside lights then another circuit for downstairs lighting etc. It'll all be one circuit with the drops for the switches for each room/light(s).
@@ryanallen3704 Interesting, because I would have a separate circuit for outside lights due to the fact they are more likely to trip an RCBO in the event of any water ingress. This would also be more likely to happen at night when they come on, and you don't want to be plunging the rest of the house into darkness.
@@davepusey if it's rated for outdoors then it wouldn't matter.
Why can’t we just say ‘electrician’ and all move on without sounding like divs. Thank you kindly.
Inflation is the exact reason, and it’s not that labor costs aren’t coming down, they’re going up. Inflation is destroying people’s purchasing power and it’s only getting worse, next up.... hyperinflation. Prepare accordingly.
So you put something that isn’t in a double enclosure into a wet wall. And it’s full of electronics. 🙈. That’s what a diyer would do. It’s not going to last is it?
Worse than that, it’s not accessible for repair, maintenance, or testing as it’s never going to pull back out of that gap later on
Blank plate next to the light switch would have been my option. Once it’s there a few weeks owner will never notice.
Always accessible and dry.
Being scared to cut the wall inside is just crazy. We cut walls everyday never knowing what’s behind really. Just take you’re time.
Use a grinder
In America an enclosure has to be listed , key word,
If you don't have a multitool, first you drill a hole then you saw the rest.
Thanks good tip
Don't feel so bad about those qualifications. I just found out my state senator wants to do away with licensing for electricians, plumbers, ETC. I guess I don't know if I need to get a license then, I've always wanted to be licensed. But it's gonna be a mess for the homeowners who if they check still don't know who to get who is actually qualified. And those that are qualified are pretty much going to get run out of business, by our equivalent of the kitchen fitter. I don't even know why because as a homeowner (in most of the US) you are fully allowed to do stuff yourself and get it inspected hopefully, so it literally is only going to be a free-for-all for anybody to call themselves qualified. But hey he also wants to get rid of property taxes, I suspect because he has a lot to pay this year?
Where the hell did Reuben come from........?
Should have ended at 20mins
can you add your own logo to the quotations on tradify?
Yeah absolutely
Where has Oscar gone? Great video Cory
Oscar left a while ago unfortunately
@@artisanelectrics I had one do that to me soon after I bought him a load of tools.
You're paying for a dedicated cameraman as well ?
Yep, hope you enjoy the increase in quality
what happened to the apprentice?
If your blades are wearing away 1) your running them to fast 2) wrong type of blade, that clading looks like its cement based
Yep, Abrasive blades would be the way to go for that stuff
Hope it can easily be removed and serviced. Not jammed in there 😳
We were sold down the river with one Word competent you have to be competent to carry out a task not qualified but competent hence customers/ clients do not want to pay for qualifications that are not needed .when I Did my 17th edition the classroom was full of young guys who weren't qualified why were they doing it ? Because their boss could then legally say they were competent to work supervised under a qualified electrician doing Commercial kitchen refits If I remember correctly hey presto a cheaper workforce and You can be Damm certain he wasn't charging them out as electricians Mates or improvers but as fully qualified electricians then if something went wrong yes judge he was competent having achieved the 17th edition wiring regulations
If they said legally you have to be qualified to carry out electrical works and not just competent then perhaps uncle Dave might think twice about installing an electric shower using flex or at least maybe his neice Might Think twice about asking him
That power lies with the IET
The IET were not responsible for part p the government were, but it has certainly played its part in watering down qualifications
Back in the day when builders were knocking up an extension the customer would ask if they new any electricians to wire it ....it’s alright mate , me and seamus can do that for yer...
And there was a lot of that going on.....one job I had customer put two wall lights on every wall . 8 cables in total and all wired to centre of room....walls now plastered....8 cables + 3 plate....