I haven’t read The Iliad yet, mostly because I’ve been intimidated by making the choice of which translation to go with. You may have helped guide my decision!
I read the Robert Fagles' translation, but have the Emily Wison's on order, and now I ordered Robert Graves in case I missed anything. I'd watch the chapter summaries of Tim Nance on YT to also get help.
Great video! In college as an Undergrad, I took a course called Introduction to Greek and Roman Mythology, as part of the Humanities curriculum. First thing we read and studied was Homer's ilid and Odyssey. And we used Richmond Lattimore's translation. Still have the books!
The first translation I read was the E. V. Rieu version that used to be the Penguin classic. It was one that was in our house when I was a kid and it was one of the first adult books I read after Dracula. I loved it as an adventure and also as a gritty, extremely violent war story. I of course appreciate it now as more than that. The characters, even the gods, always struck me as very human and relatable. I’ve always felt bad for Hector.
I'm amazed you read the Iliad as a kid! I remember picking up texts only to raise my hands in frustration and move onto something more fun! The fighting scenes are very vivid and I can see why they stole your heart as a kiddo!
@@Shellyish it helped that I was reading the E. V. Rieu translation. It’s pretty simple actually. And it was done with the general reader in mind. Also, it’s really good. That fact that it is a prose translation helped.
You ask an excellent question! Like you, I want to get the basic story (what’s going on). Also, since it is a foundational text, I want see how it has influenced Western literature. And I also want to get a glimpse of how Ancient Greeks thought: religion, notions of honour, power imbalance between men and women, or gods and humans, or princes and simple citizens, etc. Like you, I also think that, after I wilal jave read the Graves translation, I will go back to the Iliad in a different translation, in verse.
I keep asking myself - what do I want from this translation? I'm still mulling it over, but ultimately want to know the basics of Greek mythology. I believe, it's fundamental for any big reader's life. Otherwise, I'm an explorer! I'm here to observe and take note!
That's the one I read and I thought it was beautifully written. I'm reading the Emily Wilson Odyssey translation right now and thought it is quite easy to follow the story, it also is much simpler, it has much less poetry, than the Lombardo version of the Iliad. If I ever do read the Odyssey again, I will definitely read Lombardo's translation, especially now I'm familiar with the story
Fagles is pretty prosaic, for verse, lol. That is, his verse isn't great, but he's relatively easy to read. Alexander Pope did a beautiful verse translation. Samuel Butler's prose is also relatively easy.
Oh that Cromwell… he makes some good points about approaching the bible and The Iliad. I will read The Iliad when I have the time to give it my full attention. 😊💙
This video is amazing! It was so helpful for me to hear you flesh out your thoughts on translations and what you hope to get out of The Iliad. I think my goals reading it are similar to yours, especially in terms of seeing how Homer has influenced writers over the years. It’s such an integral story that so many have drawn from and I really want to read the source material. Also, I have been playing around with translations and think I’ve settled on Fagles, although the more modern translation you mentioned intrigues me. I might have to check that one out too before I make a final decision 😜 In the meantime, I am way behind everyone else’s reading because I took so long to settle.
I’m a mess with the whole translations thing! I just switched translations again! 😳 I’m testing the Fitzgerald translation which I’m liking. Who knew this translations business was going to be so epic and difficult. I wish I would’ve researched translators beforehand.
I hope you've been successful in your pursuits here! My thoughts: I tried to read Pope's translation, but I can't get past the rhyming couplets. I read Lattimore's, which was kind of the "school" version they gave you back in my day. It just missed somehow; I found it kind of dry and uninspiring. Fagles is beautiful, but I found him a touch heavy and "thick" -- strangely, maybe, it didn't "feel" like Homer to me -- a bit overworked or overdressed? Homer is both lyrical and punchy, and Fagles didn't catch that for me. Lombardo's Iliad was excellent, but the only version I could find was abridged and I needed the full text. The one I like best is Caroline Alexander's. I think she captures the beauty of Homer and his impact in a way that isn't overworked; it's direct and also easy to read. I like that she based it on the Greek text prepared by the late Martin West. He was The Guy when it came to Homeric scholarship; I think his Greek text (he published it in 1998 and 2000) did some good in "recapturing" Homer's original Greek. If you would like to no more about the context of the Iliad, I suggest reading Barry Strauss' "The Trojan War: A new history", published in 2006. It will give you an idea of what the ancient bards (and Homer) were singing about. Strauss is my favorite historian, and he does an excellent job of making history accessible. Based on my own research, I don't agree with all his conclusions (yes, I am debating the former chair of the Cornell history department and one of the foremost military historians alive today), but that is neither here there for understanding the period and what the Trojan War was like, why it is was fought and how. Reading the Iliad first, then Strauss, then the Iliad again I feel breathes new life into the epic. As to why I read the Iliad, it's because I want to know what is behind, why Homer wrote it as he did, what messages did he mean to express, what he based previous epics on (and why he changed them), and what was the history that inspired those epics (because yes, there was some and the Trojan War was fought, and it was fought over a woman "and the wealth she brought." The Iliad has layer upon layers, and the joy of reading it, in my view,m is discovering them. It took me years to accomplish that, and I'm not done yet. Enjoy!
Hi. I'm reading the penguin Rieu translation. It's a prose version. I got this by mistake. Thought it was epic poem mode. Anyway I highly recommend it for beginners like myself. It really spells it out in simple terms. So I agree with you. Comprehension first . Language beauty second. The icing on the cake. I'm going to watch some of your other videos. Thanks
A few in our book club/reading group read Rieu and got along with his translation. I’m glad you enjoyed the translation in the end. With these Ancient Greek texts, you’re right to prioritize understand.
I just picked up that book while at the bookstore a couple days ago! I took it off the shelf, flipped through and put it back while thinking, “I need some light reading right now….I’ll come back to this later.” 😂🤣
I first read the Iliad in Greek in college. I still prefer Lattimore’s translation. It has the passion and cadence of the original Greek. Homer is meant to be spoken. Listening to someone fluent in the language reciting it in one of the ancient theatres still in existence in Greece is magical.
I was planning on starting the Iliad but I accidentally started reading the Silence of the Girls just before the start of december so I'm waiting to finish that too. I was initially thinking that I wished I'd read the iliad first, but watching this video has made me slightly thankful that I've had (at least a part of it) told in more of a clearer story form! Lookings forwards to reading it though!
Elizabeth, I’m so incredibly curious how you’ll get on with The Iliad! I’m struggling with finding and sticking to a translations. It’s a intriguing and engaging read to say the least.
I love Fagles! ♥️♥️♥️ Homer wrote in poetry, so Fagles feels right I Guess. I have also read Lattimore’s. It is a bit of both prose and poem. I think finding what works for you is important!
Thanks, Deea! Fagles translation is very beautiful, but I'm working on getting that large cast of characters down (at least in my mind!) and a more modern translation is a bit kinder to me!
I think Lattimore is probably the best translation. I don't like Fagles' and I think it's unfortunate that he's the primary recommendation when Lattimore does so much to try to capture Homer's similes.
@@Ian-yf7uf I much prefer Lattimore’s as well. His translation has a power and cadence that Fagles just doesn’t have. I first read the actual Iliad and Odyssey in classical Greek back in college. It needs to be recited out loud.
Hi Shelly, the Fagles’ translations are not the easiest ones. I find the language harsh at times. My recommendation for the first time is to read a Fitzgerald translation. The language is amazing. I would also recommend that you may want to read Madeline Miller’s The Song of Achilles. It will provide a great insight into the story. BTW, Miller's other book Circe is also amazing. She is a fantastic author.
Jorge, thank you for the recommendation! I'm going to look into the Fitzgerald translation which sounds great! Everyone's been chatting about Miller's duo of Greek retellings and my plan is to read them after I finish with Homer.
The only thing that got me through the Iliad was by watching Moan, Inc's video series on it. I'm glad I did that because it really helped me understand it. (I read Fagle's translation, but I'd like to try some others now )
I really just wanted to read it with a group. I am the biggest variety reader of people I know. Other than my 29 year old son, no one in my circle would be excited to read it. In fact people wonder what is wrong with me for doing so. This book club and its name...ah I have found my people!
I’ve watched the movie Troy multiple times, so I do know the general story. However, I have heard that the movie is not faithful to the original poem. 😂 I want to read it so that I can understand Greek literature and the nature of war. Also, I’m a born-again Christian and since the New Testament was written in Greek, I want to gain some knowledge of Greek culture.
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I haven’t read The Iliad yet, mostly because I’ve been intimidated by making the choice of which translation to go with. You may have helped guide my decision!
Justin, well thank you! I just switched again to the Fitzgerald translation and it's going really well!
Check out your local library. They should have most of the translations.
I read the Robert Fagles' translation, but have the Emily Wison's on order, and now I ordered Robert Graves in case I missed anything. I'd watch the chapter summaries of Tim Nance on YT to also get help.
Great video! In college as an Undergrad, I took a course called Introduction to Greek and Roman Mythology, as part of the Humanities curriculum. First thing we read and studied was Homer's ilid and Odyssey. And we used Richmond Lattimore's translation. Still have the books!
That's so cool that you still have your books!
The first translation I read was the E. V. Rieu version that used to be the Penguin classic. It was one that was in our house when I was a kid and it was one of the first adult books I read after Dracula. I loved it as an adventure and also as a gritty, extremely violent war story. I of course appreciate it now as more than that. The characters, even the gods, always struck me as very human and relatable. I’ve always felt bad for Hector.
I'm amazed you read the Iliad as a kid! I remember picking up texts only to raise my hands in frustration and move onto something more fun! The fighting scenes are very vivid and I can see why they stole your heart as a kiddo!
@@Shellyish it helped that I was reading the E. V. Rieu translation. It’s pretty simple actually. And it was done with the general reader in mind. Also, it’s really good. That fact that it is a prose translation helped.
You ask an excellent question! Like you, I want to get the basic story (what’s going on). Also, since it is a foundational text, I want see how it has influenced Western literature. And I also want to get a glimpse of how Ancient Greeks thought: religion, notions of honour, power imbalance between men and women, or gods and humans, or princes and simple citizens, etc.
Like you, I also think that, after I wilal jave read the Graves translation, I will go back to the Iliad in a different translation, in verse.
I keep asking myself - what do I want from this translation? I'm still mulling it over, but ultimately want to know the basics of Greek mythology. I believe, it's fundamental for any big reader's life. Otherwise, I'm an explorer! I'm here to observe and take note!
@@Shellyish Observe and take notes! Absolutely yes!!!
I love Lombardo's Iliad. It's so readable without compromising beauty and fidelity more than necessary.
Awe! I just made a note of Lombardo's translation. Sounds like something I would like to read.
That's the one I read and I thought it was beautifully written. I'm reading the Emily Wilson Odyssey translation right now and thought it is quite easy to follow the story, it also is much simpler, it has much less poetry, than the Lombardo version of the Iliad. If I ever do read the Odyssey again, I will definitely read Lombardo's translation, especially now I'm familiar with the story
Fagles is pretty prosaic, for verse, lol. That is, his verse isn't great, but he's relatively easy to read. Alexander Pope did a beautiful verse translation. Samuel Butler's prose is also relatively easy.
Oh! Thank you! This is helpful!
Oh that Cromwell… he makes some good points about approaching the bible and The Iliad. I will read The Iliad when I have the time to give it my full attention. 😊💙
That's they way to go, Jolene! Setting aside your reading life for the Iliad! Tedwell, he has some great insight sometimes.
This video is amazing! It was so helpful for me to hear you flesh out your thoughts on translations and what you hope to get out of The Iliad. I think my goals reading it are similar to yours, especially in terms of seeing how Homer has influenced writers over the years. It’s such an integral story that so many have drawn from and I really want to read the source material.
Also, I have been playing around with translations and think I’ve settled on Fagles, although the more modern translation you mentioned intrigues me. I might have to check that one out too before I make a final decision 😜 In the meantime, I am way behind everyone else’s reading because I took so long to settle.
I’m a mess with the whole translations thing! I just switched translations again! 😳 I’m testing the Fitzgerald translation which I’m liking. Who knew this translations business was going to be so epic and difficult.
I wish I would’ve researched translators beforehand.
@@Shellyish I met Fitzgerald several times when I was in grad school. He was a delightful gentleman. I still prefer Lattimore’s translation.
I do find Emily Wilson's new verse translation easy to understand, and beautiful
I hope you've been successful in your pursuits here! My thoughts:
I tried to read Pope's translation, but I can't get past the rhyming couplets. I read Lattimore's, which was kind of the "school" version they gave you back in my day. It just missed somehow; I found it kind of dry and uninspiring. Fagles is beautiful, but I found him a touch heavy and "thick" -- strangely, maybe, it didn't "feel" like Homer to me -- a bit overworked or overdressed? Homer is both lyrical and punchy, and Fagles didn't catch that for me. Lombardo's Iliad was excellent, but the only version I could find was abridged and I needed the full text. The one I like best is Caroline Alexander's. I think she captures the beauty of Homer and his impact in a way that isn't overworked; it's direct and also easy to read. I like that she based it on the Greek text prepared by the late Martin West. He was The Guy when it came to Homeric scholarship; I think his Greek text (he published it in 1998 and 2000) did some good in "recapturing" Homer's original Greek.
If you would like to no more about the context of the Iliad, I suggest reading Barry Strauss' "The Trojan War: A new history", published in 2006. It will give you an idea of what the ancient bards (and Homer) were singing about. Strauss is my favorite historian, and he does an excellent job of making history accessible. Based on my own research, I don't agree with all his conclusions (yes, I am debating the former chair of the Cornell history department and one of the foremost military historians alive today), but that is neither here there for understanding the period and what the Trojan War was like, why it is was fought and how. Reading the Iliad first, then Strauss, then the Iliad again I feel breathes new life into the epic.
As to why I read the Iliad, it's because I want to know what is behind, why Homer wrote it as he did, what messages did he mean to express, what he based previous epics on (and why he changed them), and what was the history that inspired those epics (because yes, there was some and the Trojan War was fought, and it was fought over a woman "and the wealth she brought." The Iliad has layer upon layers, and the joy of reading it, in my view,m is discovering them. It took me years to accomplish that, and I'm not done yet.
Enjoy!
Hi. I'm reading the penguin Rieu translation. It's a prose version. I got this by mistake. Thought it was epic poem mode.
Anyway I highly recommend it for beginners like myself. It really spells it out in simple terms.
So I agree with you.
Comprehension first .
Language beauty second. The icing on the cake.
I'm going to watch some of your other videos. Thanks
A few in our book club/reading group read Rieu and got along with his translation. I’m glad you enjoyed the translation in the end. With these Ancient Greek texts, you’re right to prioritize understand.
I just picked up that book while at the bookstore a couple days ago! I took it off the shelf, flipped through and put it back while thinking, “I need some light reading right now….I’ll come back to this later.” 😂🤣
Yeah, the Iliad is not for the faint of heart. It'll eat your brain and suck your time!
I first read the Iliad in Greek in college. I still prefer Lattimore’s translation. It has the passion and cadence of the original Greek. Homer is meant to be spoken. Listening to someone fluent in the language reciting it in one of the ancient theatres still in existence in Greece is magical.
I was planning on starting the Iliad but I accidentally started reading the Silence of the Girls just before the start of december so I'm waiting to finish that too. I was initially thinking that I wished I'd read the iliad first, but watching this video has made me slightly thankful that I've had (at least a part of it) told in more of a clearer story form! Lookings forwards to reading it though!
Elizabeth, I’m so incredibly curious how you’ll get on with The Iliad! I’m struggling with finding and sticking to a translations. It’s a intriguing and engaging read to say the least.
@@Shellyish I think mine was translated by E.V. Rieu in the 50s, so I hope I click with it because it's the only version I have!
@@bettychoibooks I hope you get along wing it as well!
I love Fagles! ♥️♥️♥️ Homer wrote in poetry, so Fagles feels right I Guess.
I have also read Lattimore’s. It is a bit of both prose and poem. I think finding what works for you is important!
Thanks, Deea! Fagles translation is very beautiful, but I'm working on getting that large cast of characters down (at least in my mind!) and a more modern translation is a bit kinder to me!
I think Lattimore is probably the best translation. I don't like Fagles' and I think it's unfortunate that he's the primary recommendation when Lattimore does so much to try to capture Homer's similes.
@@Ian-yf7uf I much prefer Lattimore’s as well. His translation has a power and cadence that Fagles just doesn’t have. I first read the actual Iliad and Odyssey in classical Greek back in college. It needs to be recited out loud.
Hi Shelly, the Fagles’ translations are not the easiest ones. I find the language harsh at times. My recommendation for the first time is to read a Fitzgerald translation. The language is amazing. I would also recommend that you may want to read Madeline Miller’s The Song of Achilles. It will provide a great insight into the story. BTW, Miller's other book Circe is also amazing. She is a fantastic author.
Jorge, thank you for the recommendation! I'm going to look into the Fitzgerald translation which sounds great! Everyone's been chatting about Miller's duo of Greek retellings and my plan is to read them after I finish with Homer.
The only thing that got me through the Iliad was by watching Moan, Inc's video series on it. I'm glad I did that because it really helped me understand it. (I read Fagle's translation, but I'd like to try some others now )
I've heard of Moan Inc. I really ought to check her out. :)
@@Shellyish please do. she is the Goddess of Greek Mythology knowledge. :)
I really just wanted to read it with a group. I am the biggest variety reader of people I know. Other than my 29 year old son, no one in my circle would be excited to read it. In fact people wonder what is wrong with me for doing so. This book club and its name...ah I have found my people!
Angela, that's so sweet of you to say! I feel like I've found my people on Booktube - a large group of readers of all tastes and opinions! ❤️
I’ve watched the movie Troy multiple times, so I do know the general story. However, I have heard that the movie is not faithful to the original poem. 😂
I want to read it so that I can understand Greek literature and the nature of war. Also, I’m a born-again Christian and since the New Testament was written in Greek, I want to gain some knowledge of Greek culture.
When I read it it will be one of the translations that I can know what is going on. So Fagel and I won’t meet. Lol
HAHAH! I'll keep Fagle far away from you!
@@Shellyish 😂
I recommend Stephen Mitchell’s translation.
Thanks.
I heard he leaves stuff out.
You should have your husband on your channel at some point 😍 The Iliad is one I would like to read but I am intimidated by it. Fun video as usual.
Hahaha! Ted will probably not grace us with his presence, unfortunately. I love chatting about him though!