I've been a sign installer for 30 years and you must be able to imagine how many different fixings of used inside and out but I still find your channel extremely interesting and I wonder what the significant difference would be if you had added one screw to the centre of that bracket into the right hand stud so the screw is Centre up and down as well I would like to see you try this if you could and ID like to see the difference from what you've done today to what that result would be thank you
Thanks for this awesome video. I just installed my Lack shelves onto drywall but anchored into concrete behind it. I think mine could probably handle a lot more load. I absolutely love these shelves.
5Kg is probably right for long term use. This is an instantaneous failure test, not a long term test and I am glad that you pointed this out near the start of the video. Shelves are for decades of use not for five minutes. I am someone who tends to build most things over-strength. I am also fortunate to live in a flat that has only one small plasterboard wall, the rest are solid brick as the building is over 100 years old. That plasterboard partition is also in a place where I would never want to put shelves on it so it really isn't going to be an issue.
I agree with the safety factors. I often put over 100kg on shelf brackets, or table legs, that are rated to 50kg (at midspan). As long as they are very well attached to wall, the bracket will not fail, and it will be not deformed or damaged in anyway at all. But I will not put that much weight permanently, because failure of one screw or slow creep, thermal expansion and contraction of metal and wood will make it eventually fail.
Nice job Andy and very worthwhile with very interesting result. I've always advised against floating shelves on plasterboard and have even refused to fit them as I didn't want any comebacks. Nice to see what happens to the expanding bolts which are my go-to fixing in plasterboard for anything remotely serious. Keep up the great work.
Hi Andy, again a fantastic demonstration. Thank you for this, the loads you are working with are commonly known as point and UDL loads, the point load being the one you are testing with your load measuring gig which is the worst type of load that can be applied to any condition, the other load you spoke of the 5kg is a ULD load which stands for uniformed distributed load which would be the load the shelf can take safely if loaded in compliance with manufactures recommendations. Regarding the bracketry being bent by 3mm I have found that certain bracketry from other suppliers have a top and bottom with the top be elevated to compensate for settlement. Again, good demonstration and I look forward to the next one.
Thank you for this video. Now I have something to show the construction workers who claimed my 25cm gypsum wall would break if i tried to put anything heavier than a single book on a shelf like that.
It's really a test of the drywall and the drywall anchor. Unless the IKEA LACK was made of light gauge sheet metal, it would never fail before the drywall or anchor.
and therefore, since the source of the load is on the same drywall as the shelf, the force applied through the loader should counteract the force on the tested board in such a way that the drywall may not show signs of stress or break when it ought to...which means this test may not be useful at all.
WOW! Fantastic test Andy!!! I can't believe the wall went first - I really thought it would be the brackets. More destruction tests like this please matey.
What conincidence, I was just fixing IKEA Lack shelve (used as shoe / boots storage above the floor), because it was poorly installed, and started bending / deflecting from being level. It was mounted by 5 plugs and screws. I used all 10 holes instead, used new plugs, and filled all holes with gipsum, waited 10 minutes, hammered plugs until they are flush, then waited few hours before hanging the bracked and the shelf back. Now it is rock solid. (This is in old conrete, but I think it is not full concrete, and most likely a concrete blocks, that are hollow inside, or something else, because it just doesn't feel like it).
Maybe you should make a test on strength of new drywall compared to "old" drywall? I assume that they would weaken over time due to humidity and so on. Btw we(Sweden) usually use 60 cm c-c here for drywall so that might also affect your results. I'm quite surprised by the result though. Keep up the good work!
When I was an apprentice electrician we used overhead cranes and they sported a sign say swl or safe working load and this equated to half the total weight the crane could in theory lift but still a good test
It would be interesting to see the results if the left and right plasterboard edges were continued like a normal wall and not cut off a few cm from the bracket fixing? I can imagine several more kilos capacity?
If you turned the bracket around the bars would have bent. The bending occurs at the set screw point on the bottom that secures the shelf from sliding off the bracket. Do the same test with it pulling the load in the same orientation that it would be mounted. In other words the same way you did it but turn the bracket upside down to match the test.
Maybe an idea for a future Test Tuesday would be retesting this using 9.5mm plasterboard instead of the 12.5mm as I think the anchors might just rip straight through. When we were moving the floating shelves I had up, one of the heads stripped on the anchor and it was a right carry on trying to get the shelf off the wall. In the end I got sick and just put all my weight on the shelf and it just tore through the board, but I'm sure that has something to do with Barratts using the worst quality plasterboard imaginable!
You can see at 6:20, at 6kg, the bracket and plugs are already giving. They are not flexing elastically, they are actually deforming permanently and moving inside holes. Otherwise the value would set still. But it is slowly going down. Also it is important to note that you are not applying this force uniformly across the entire shelf, but instead at the edge of the board. The distance between point you apply up force to wall is extremally important. And should be presented in torque units instead. Much better way to asses this shelf as is (IKEA Lack), is to apply your up force in the middle between wall and front edge of the shelve. Really it is important. I could break this shelve with 10g of force, if I put the load 10m away. You also need to compensate for the weight of your solid wood you used in the test.
It's the wall giving, not the bracket or plugs. The value going slowly down is often the measuring equipment 'settling' and if you leave it long enough it goes static - however eventually the plasterboard just gives way. The force is at the front edge to simulate worst case scenario for this type of shelf. 👍
The rig set up looks clever, but I'm usure why you attached the chain where you did, maybe 25 cm away from the plasterboard wall? I'd have thought the extra leverage from putting all the pull load out there would be huge and not a fair reflection of heavy objects placed midway on a shelf.
@@Cassandra_Johnson ah, that's the opposite for me, I've never had to mount anything to a stud wall. The problem I have is the plasterboard is glued to the wall and unfortunately the blobs of glue have stopped the plasterboard being in contact with the wall itself. This means there is a gap and you risk crushing the plasterboard in when nipping up a screw or bolt. The other issue is that I'm almost certain that some of my walls are breeze block behind the plasterboard. Thats what I'm assuming anyway, as the material seems very soft when drilling sometimes. I do wonder if its substantial for Rawlplugs™️
Great video, im wanting to install this above a radiator as a bit of a dressing table for my daughter as he room. is tiny and radiator takes uo a wall good for starage but the wall is between the bathroom and cant find. studds so this helps to imagine how it would work
The bracket might not be very torsionally rigid, in which case the worst case scenario is with the load all over one bracket. If it is torsionally rigid, (is it a box section or just a strip?) Then it doesn't matter at all where the load is side to side or whether it is a distributed load or a point loading.
You can't anchor any kind of shelf into drywall and expect it to hold very much weight. Those anchors are called molly bolts. Attach the brackets to the wall studs.
I put up 4 of the shelves in my office and used a 3/4" plywood panel for backing. I was surprised how little the shelves took before they started to sag. I assume it's the thin metal bracket that is starting to bend. It's not failing but it looks off kilter if it's loaded up too much. I wonder how differently the result would be if you hadn't fastened the drywall along the bottom (to the bench). Good video. Food for thought.
Yep. 3 different lengths. They seem to sag along their length, not like in the middle or that. I imagine they stop at a certain point and just stay static there, but the look of shelves sloping down from the wall is disconcerting, if not unsightly. So I just don't overload them and I'll live with it until I replace them.
Force is usually applied in term of surface area. So smaller areas will end up with more focus in terms of force. So that actually means the overall strength of the plasterboard is going to be tested. The same also applies to metal to great a surface area can warp over all and too small an area can cause fractures in a more specific point. Like getting a 20 foot length of wood and making a person walk out to the end to it starts to sag or putting 20 tons of pressure in one screw fitting.
The problem with your test is that you apply the force on the very tip of the brackets pipes. So the CG of the items mostly be in the middle of them. So the 15kg you apply there should be multiplied by the distance between the point you apply the force and the wall. I would slide the board you attached to the bracket all the way touching the wall. That could yield more realistic results. Incredible effort though. Respect and thank you.
this is really a test of 2 attachment points at once though - so isn't it more like "12.5 kilos / attachment" ? I have 3, 7 foot (american here) shelves, each with about 5 attachment points.
should have put a level on the board and checked along the way. the plaster board will fail at ~25kg but the shelf will start slanting before then. at what weight would it have started slanting would have been a good question to answer.
I'd like to use the IKEA Shelf/Rack (Item 10328587) to hold a couple of 3 gallon liquid detergent bottles (25 pounds)... but nowhere in the description does it say the maximum weight the Shelf/Rack can support! Assuming I can find studs that are spaced 26 5/8 inches apart, any guess as to how much weight these little 3" brackets can hold?
Good testing mate. Obviously the only difference is ikea or any manufacturer would take all types of different fixings for plaster board into consideration when giving there 5 kg limit.
I have a 50 inch TV, on a wall mount hung on dot and dab plasterboard using Grip It fixings from Screwfix and seems to be holding OK. Would these Grip It fixings not work for mounting a floating shelf or floating unit to a dot and dab wall?
I don't know, I kinda think it would be completely different with the actual shelf installed on the bracket. You say it yourself at the beginning of the vid: "the thicker the shelf, the more load it will take", meaning, that the shelf is higher than the bracket, giving it an extra support thus enabling it to take more load...
I suspect that it would have failed faster if your anchors were situated at the center point between the studs rather than just a few inches away. And worse yet I think if your shelf was mounted entirely within the pocket between 2 studs (not straddling).
Does this apply to plasterboard glued to the actual wall too? I fitted 3 of ikea shelfs to one (110cm shelves) and put books on 2 of them. I did not use expanding plugs just your usual wall plags ( 7 in each shelf). Its only been 2 days so I hope this holds as I have a 200l fishtank underneath (Lord please). I am planning to do the same on other side of chimney so hope this wont destroy the plasterboard!
great test, but I'd like to point out that I have never seen the heavier duty drywall anchors included in a shelf kit. they always seem to be the cheapest plastic anchors you can find. Then again, I also have never bought an Ikea shelf, so maybe they come with it. As you have pointed out, just a bad idea unless you are going into a stud
Hello, i was just trying to find out some info about those LACK shelves and if is it safe to store (around 10kg total) - secured in a brick wall, my concern is that one of those two steel "handles" could break loose, making the shelf to fall off the wall, you said in the video, that you recommend this shelf quite often, have you ever heard from any of your customers of a failure of those steel pipes? Thanks in advance for a reply.
Nice test. I put a couple of those ikea shelves up last week into cinder block walls but used all ten holes on each bracket for screws and rawlplugs, I have four to put up on plasterboard walls soon and I am happy that they should take about 10 kg each max but would using all ten bracket holes for fixings actually weaken the plasterboard ?
They probably will if the holes are close together. Best to stagger the fixings. Andy! There's a followup for you. Close hole fixings, does it strength, weaken or make no difference? :o)
I would suspect the hole pattern shown by IKEA is the optimal route (2 at the top over each 'bar' and one on the bottom row in the middle). Is there drywall over the cinder block or bare block? 👍
Save some money and buy some 3/4 wide metal L shaped shelf brackets the non tapered type that sometimes have a brace / welded on a diagonal. 1) Cut a ledger board to the correct L/D/H 2) Mount the ledger board onto the wall at desired height screwing it into the studs. 3) Mount a shelf bracket in a horizonal orientation (sideways) onto and flush with the top of the ledger board with the brackets near or at each end. 4) Depending on how wide the span is you can add additional L brackets if needed. 5) slide the open core shelf over the entire assembly ledger included and screw/nail into the wood of the ledger from the top side of the shelf. BTW Flat (strap) steel bent in an L shape is much stronger when mounted sideways then steel tubing is, it also cost less ( about $3.00 per L) and is more versatile when making/sizing your own open core floating shelves.
@@GosforthHandyman Hahaha! You may be correct! I picked up 12L brackets for the floating shelves I'm fabricating for a client and the L brackets alone cost me $41.00 bucks and some change. I don't think I had any other options other then making my own mounting system because the shelves are a mitered L configuration and very long (104'' by 65'') I suppose I could have used more then one of the pre-fabed mounting brackets.. but it seemed like it would be faster for me to make my own. Thanks Goforth! :)
It is interesting to test but the worst case would be when all the load is at one bracket. Failure is best established by looking at the displacement against load. You would see a change in the rate of displacement against load. This would be the point that when the load is removed the shelf does not return to its original unloaded position. This is most likely what IKEA refer to as failure. I agree stick to the manufacturers guidelines.
I'm a diy noob and I've bought some Lack shelves but I've discovered the walls I'm installing on are plasterboard about 3-4 inches in and then concrete/highdensity material, and no studs that I can find with my detector. All I've got are 6x30 Duopower plugs, would it be better to try to drill into concrete and shove two plugs in, or would it be fine just in the plasterboard with the shelves fixed to the wall with all 32 of the holes used on the mounting brackets? Not gonna be using them to hold anything super heavy, mainly plastic figurines and light books, maybe a fan, stuff like that, they'll probably go over 5kg but I doubt I'll be holding 20kg with them but they are above my bed and I'm slightly worried they'll fall on my head in my sleep one day xD
Interesting vid as usual, I wonder if you would get a slightly better result if the fixings were staggered on the bracket, three on the top line of holes two on the bottom.
Gosforth Handyman , thanks for your reply. I just wondered if it would spread the load more, however won't go against the instructions. Have a great wk end.
Can you help me, I have a shelf similar to this held in by 9 4x50mm screws with 5mm x 1inch grey wall plugs, the drill bit is about 5mm. What sort of weight will this hold at a guess? Because I want to put a 10 to 20 kg pc on it up against the back of the wall
I'm going to use these in my kitchen as open kitchen shelving so I want to secure the bracket into studs. Studs are generally 16 inches apart in the US. Does the bracket have holes to accommodate that width so I can secure it to studs?
Omg yes I was wondering if I could do that lol bc I had a few plants on my bookshelf and I was gonna get these so I could still have plants there but also get more storage in my room. I was scared if it would hold lol. Has it worked well for you ?
So I call these shelves "droopy shelves" as I haver never ever ever been able to get one to sit at 90 degrees to the wall. I usually end up putting packers under the bottom edge of the bracket to tilt it upwards so that when the shelf is added it's weight will pull it down to something close to 90 degrees. Any tips on how I can do this better?
Thanks Andy that is exactly the video I have been looking for. What brand of snap-wedges are you using and do you have a link for them? Interestingly, it looks like your brackets had to be angled down a bit, was that right? Mine always sag under the weight of the shelf (unloaded) and I need to pack the bracket at the bottom to angle it up.
Andy! Patreon tells me I've been contributing at least a pint ($3) for a few months now. Tell me you've been enjoying a welcome beverage every now and then! I enjoy your videos btw - keep them coming!
It would be great if they'd put a bunch more holes in the the mounting bracket so you're more likely to be able to screw into a stud, and still line it up where you want it. I guess you could drill through the metal, but why make it such a pain in the ass?
Thanks for this. I've got a 1.9m lack on order. It's to go on a dot and dab wall with only about 10mm gap between the plasterboard and blockwork, so too shallow for a wall anchor. I wanted to use corefix but whatever the blocks are don't drill easily. Are grip its an option, if the weight is under 10kg and the load isn't near the end of the shelf?
How did it go? Is it flimsy? I've been seeing horror stories about how much flex these shelves get. I've been assuming it's just idiots with no idea how to mount shelves properly.
I think If there were actually studs in the test rig it could take more even if the fittings didn go into them. I'd like to seethe same test donewith studs at CC45 spacing which would be normal with a 900 wide plaster board. Maybe 1200 is the normal width though then it could be cc 40 in a modern house and cc 60 in an old one.
I agree with @rimmersbryggeri, there are no studs behind the drywall. As seen in 15:15. I too would like to see this experiment done again with studs behind the drywall just as a real life scenario. In this Scenario there are no studs supporting the drywall.
I was hoping to make a small floating desk for my keyboard and mouse to rest on (and my elbows or whatever when I’m using it). If my wall has studs, how deep of a desk do you think I could use with brackets like these? Could I do 18-20 inches, if I use a wood like oak that won’t break under the pressure?
I had similar plans but after some research I decided to go for a wall mounted style (brackets on both ends, drilled and fixed into studs with lag bolts). I envisage the depth of my desk will be quite narrow (no more than 40cm from the wall to the edge of the desk), so I'm thinking it'll be fine. But, yeah, I really wanted a floating desk too, lol, but I think they work better when there's a supporting wall (or two) into which the desktop is situated.
What is the load limit on the Lack shelf if you’re able to fasten the bracket to 3 studs? I’m planning to use the longest Lack shelf as book storage and am hoping it can hold a lot of weight.
Hi Andy, first excuse my english, i'm dutch... :-) I think i have an interesting test tuesday subject: i was gonna try it out myself, but then thought it's better done in the hands of you! question: how strong is a lose shelve from 18 mm mdf? a friend told me after a with of 60 cm (by 30 or 40cm) mdf wil bend. Whats your opinion on this? excuse my english again, it's been better, but i'm getting older and as it seems language seems te evaporate slowly but surly.... Greetings from Hollan, enjoying your work every week! Ed
Hi Ed! Yes, MDF can sag so anything over 60cm I would tend to use a different material such as plywood or a 'sandwich' several layers of wood glued together. 👍
As you said, your weight is right at the edge, worst case. An equally distributed weight could probably double that before it breaks. I am pretty lucky in my place, most of the plasterboard is double thickness, so I can hang anything on mine.
No. He's right. A point load at the center would be the worst case scenario. That is where you would have the longest lever arm for either of the posts.
1:30 I think you just meant it's less likely a thick shelf will bend in the middle verses a thin one. I'm trying to figure out how much weight my ekby jarpen can hold. Was hoping to screw it into studs on both sides, but don't really trust my stud finder. Might have to cut the shelf down to 24", which I don't want to do. Or use molly bolts on one side & a stud on the other 🤔
Andy I put the shelves up on concrete wall and they are sagging. Could I put some liquid foam in the holes in the shelves and put them back onto the brackets
I have these in my room and I use drywall anchor and it’s supporting just fine and I have my speakers and Xbox and PlayStation and laptop and printer and hair products and shower products and face products and trimmer for my beard and much more and it’s just fine without any problems just use dry wall anchors for every hole where the screws go in and it will be fine
Struggled with dry wall -itis since moving in1977. Fascinating test. But I'm curious about those screw fixings. Interesting to see them in place [usual hidden in the wall] - but were they as tight as you could make them or should they fold completely flat against the inside of the plasterboard?
For sure, use good plugs on a concrete block wall, for sure it will hold nearly anything you put on the shelves, i would never put a shelf on a plasterboard wall unless you can find the timber behind the plasterboard sheets to screw into
Thank you for the video. This is exactly what I was looking for. I brought a couple of Lack shelve today. For some reason the metal bracket feels flimsy , like I can easily bend it with bare hands. It doesn't feel metal at all, feel more like plastic. Wondering if the quality is different here in Canada then UK.. Also, can you recommend screws to go with it for mounting it on studs. Should I reenforce the shelves with L-brackets
Hey Andy, I'm talking about the vertical studs which you have in real situation on your drywall the only one I see is the one on your workbench sorry maybe I'm wrong
Hi, new to the channel & subbed. Great video!! I was wondering how many studs you used behind the test rig? it seemed like you used 2, but I guess in a real world scenario a shelf situated in-between studs would get support from 3 (i.e both ends). The fail appeared to occur on the end where no stud seemed to be supporting the board?? wouldn't that be the weakest point
Yeah, 2 studs - I didn't have a piece of plasterboard big enough to do 3 😀 - in reality I don't think it would make much difference to the result - the other side failed more towards the bracket than the edge. 👍
I love these tests, inquiring minds want to know! :-) I wonder if there is an even slightly worse case if you apply your point load to the left or right end though, rather than the middle - maybe some extra leverage that way?
Never mind I just saw it on the website, it's 12.5mm = 1/2". Which is good to know, 5/8" (as is very common commercial / apartment buildings in New York at least) should be somewhat stronger
Hi Andy Your latest Patreon subscriber here I was v interested in your video on the bandsaw. I originally ad a dewalt bandsaw which I thought was pretty rubbish and it quickly failed. I liked the look of your axminster bandsaw. Which model was it and how much did it cost. Cheers Tony
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Great video. I've always figured this would be the way a shelf mounted to drywall would fail, but I've never seen it demonstrated in this way.
I've been a sign installer for 30 years and you must be able to imagine how many different fixings of used inside and out but I still find your channel extremely interesting and I wonder what the significant difference would be if you had added one screw to the centre of that bracket into the right hand stud so the screw is Centre up and down as well I would like to see you try this if you could and ID like to see the difference from what you've done today to what that result would be thank you
Thanks for this awesome video. I just installed my Lack shelves onto drywall but anchored into concrete behind it. I think mine could probably handle a lot more load. I absolutely love these shelves.
Thank you for this. Recently bought a house and found 4 of these shelves thrown into the attic.
5Kg is probably right for long term use. This is an instantaneous failure test, not a long term test and I am glad that you pointed this out near the start of the video. Shelves are for decades of use not for five minutes. I am someone who tends to build most things over-strength. I am also fortunate to live in a flat that has only one small plasterboard wall, the rest are solid brick as the building is over 100 years old. That plasterboard partition is also in a place where I would never want to put shelves on it so it really isn't going to be an issue.
👍🛠
I agree with the safety factors. I often put over 100kg on shelf brackets, or table legs, that are rated to 50kg (at midspan). As long as they are very well attached to wall, the bracket will not fail, and it will be not deformed or damaged in anyway at all. But I will not put that much weight permanently, because failure of one screw or slow creep, thermal expansion and contraction of metal and wood will make it eventually fail.
Nice job Andy and very worthwhile with very interesting result. I've always advised against floating shelves on plasterboard and have even refused to fit them as I didn't want any comebacks.
Nice to see what happens to the expanding bolts which are my go-to fixing in plasterboard for anything remotely serious.
Keep up the great work.
Cheers Steve! 👍
Hi Andy, again a fantastic demonstration. Thank you for this, the loads you are working with are commonly known as point and UDL loads, the point load being the one you are testing with your load measuring gig which is the worst type of load that can be applied to any condition, the other load you spoke of the 5kg is a ULD load which stands for uniformed distributed load which would be the load the shelf can take safely if loaded in compliance with manufactures recommendations. Regarding the bracketry being bent by 3mm I have found that certain bracketry from other suppliers have a top and bottom with the top be elevated to compensate for settlement.
Again, good demonstration and I look forward to the next one.
Thanks for the ever-useful information Alan! Keep me right please as I'm trying to recall stuff from dodgy A/S Level physics from 25 years ago. 😂👍
Excellent test - well done! Just goes to show how effective expanding plasterboard anchors really are.
Indeed - I was pleasantly surprised! 👍🛠
Gosforth Handyman pppp
Thank you for this video. Now I have something to show the construction workers who claimed my 25cm gypsum wall would break if i tried to put anything heavier than a single book on a shelf like that.
It's really a test of the drywall and the drywall anchor. Unless the IKEA LACK was made of light gauge sheet metal, it would never fail before the drywall or anchor.
and therefore, since the source of the load is on the same drywall as the shelf, the force applied through the loader should counteract the force on the tested board in such a way that the drywall may not show signs of stress or break when it ought to...which means this test may not be useful at all.
WOW! Fantastic test Andy!!! I can't believe the wall went first - I really thought it would be the brackets. More destruction tests like this please matey.
Cheers Jim - yes, bracket remained pretty solid! 🛠👍
Thank you for this brilliant video. You could not have illustrated it any better, perfect!
excellent and interesting demonstration. could you tell me what is the extension piece between the rapidex socket and the drill, cheers Graeme
What conincidence, I was just fixing IKEA Lack shelve (used as shoe / boots storage above the floor), because it was poorly installed, and started bending / deflecting from being level. It was mounted by 5 plugs and screws. I used all 10 holes instead, used new plugs, and filled all holes with gipsum, waited 10 minutes, hammered plugs until they are flush, then waited few hours before hanging the bracked and the shelf back. Now it is rock solid. (This is in old conrete, but I think it is not full concrete, and most likely a concrete blocks, that are hollow inside, or something else, because it just doesn't feel like it).
The lower screws don't offer much in terms of strength due to the leverage forces on the upper screws. 👍
Maybe you should make a test on strength of new drywall compared to "old" drywall? I assume that they would weaken over time due to humidity and so on. Btw we(Sweden) usually use 60 cm c-c here for drywall so that might also affect your results.
I'm quite surprised by the result though. Keep up the good work!
Cheers dude! 👍🛠
When I was an apprentice electrician we used overhead cranes and they sported a sign say swl or safe working load and this equated to half the total weight the crane could in theory lift but still a good test
👍🛠
Thank you - love your videos!! You always answer every question I could think of
I’m new the channel and somewhat a beginner in the DIY department however I would like to know what anchors you used in this experiment?
It would be interesting to see the results if the left and right plasterboard edges were continued like a normal wall and not cut off a few cm from the bracket fixing? I can imagine several more kilos capacity?
with studs too. Still do the test with shelf not on studs, but most plaster board has stud support. (or do a comparison of shelf on studs vs off)
If you turned the bracket around the bars would have bent. The bending occurs at the set screw point on the bottom that secures the shelf from sliding off the bracket. Do the same test with it pulling the load in the same orientation that it would be mounted. In other words the same way you did it but turn the bracket upside down to match the test.
Maybe an idea for a future Test Tuesday would be retesting this using 9.5mm plasterboard instead of the 12.5mm as I think the anchors might just rip straight through.
When we were moving the floating shelves I had up, one of the heads stripped on the anchor and it was a right carry on trying to get the shelf off the wall. In the end I got sick and just put all my weight on the shelf and it just tore through the board, but I'm sure that has something to do with Barratts using the worst quality plasterboard imaginable!
12.5mm is pretty standard these days but yes 9.5mm would defo give lower results 👍
You can see at 6:20, at 6kg, the bracket and plugs are already giving. They are not flexing elastically, they are actually deforming permanently and moving inside holes. Otherwise the value would set still. But it is slowly going down.
Also it is important to note that you are not applying this force uniformly across the entire shelf, but instead at the edge of the board. The distance between point you apply up force to wall is extremally important. And should be presented in torque units instead. Much better way to asses this shelf as is (IKEA Lack), is to apply your up force in the middle between wall and front edge of the shelve. Really it is important. I could break this shelve with 10g of force, if I put the load 10m away. You also need to compensate for the weight of your solid wood you used in the test.
It's the wall giving, not the bracket or plugs. The value going slowly down is often the measuring equipment 'settling' and if you leave it long enough it goes static - however eventually the plasterboard just gives way. The force is at the front edge to simulate worst case scenario for this type of shelf. 👍
Fair enough. Not fully scientific, and not to be compared with values of the manufacturer or other types, but still useful.
The rig set up looks clever, but I'm usure why you attached the chain where you did, maybe 25 cm away from the plasterboard wall? I'd have thought the extra leverage from putting all the pull load out there would be huge and not a fair reflection of heavy objects placed midway on a shelf.
That is why I always anchor shelves into studs.
What do you use for dot and dab walls?
@@1210milky1 Hasn't come up, but a brick wall seems even better than studs. Just need a different bit for the material.
@@Cassandra_Johnson ah, that's the opposite for me, I've never had to mount anything to a stud wall. The problem I have is the plasterboard is glued to the wall and unfortunately the blobs of glue have stopped the plasterboard being in contact with the wall itself. This means there is a gap and you risk crushing the plasterboard in when nipping up a screw or bolt. The other issue is that I'm almost certain that some of my walls are breeze block behind the plasterboard. Thats what I'm assuming anyway, as the material seems very soft when drilling sometimes. I do wonder if its substantial for Rawlplugs™️
Great video, im wanting to install this above a radiator as a bit of a dressing table for my daughter as he room. is tiny and radiator takes uo a wall good for starage but the wall is between the bathroom and cant find. studds so this helps to imagine how it would work
The bracket might not be very torsionally rigid, in which case the worst case scenario is with the load all over one bracket. If it is torsionally rigid, (is it a box section or just a strip?) Then it doesn't matter at all where the load is side to side or whether it is a distributed load or a point loading.
You can't anchor any kind of shelf into drywall and expect it to hold very much weight. Those anchors are called molly bolts. Attach the brackets to the wall studs.
And sir,that is why your new 50" Cinema screen is now in a million pieces!👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍👍🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
😂😂
I put up 4 of the shelves in my office and used a 3/4" plywood panel for backing. I was surprised how little the shelves took before they started to sag. I assume it's the thin metal bracket that is starting to bend. It's not failing but it looks off kilter if it's loaded up too much. I wonder how differently the result would be if you hadn't fastened the drywall along the bottom (to the bench). Good video. Food for thought.
Interesting - same IKEA Lack brand? 👍
Yep. 3 different lengths. They seem to sag along their length, not like in the middle or that. I imagine they stop at a certain point and just stay static there, but the look of shelves sloping down from the wall is disconcerting, if not unsightly. So I just don't overload them and I'll live with it until I replace them.
Force is usually applied in term of surface area. So smaller areas will end up with more focus in terms of force. So that actually means the overall strength of the plasterboard is going to be tested.
The same also applies to metal to great a surface area can warp over all and too small an area can cause fractures in a more specific point.
Like getting a 20 foot length of wood and making a person walk out to the end to it starts to sag or putting 20 tons of pressure in one screw fitting.
The problem with your test is that you apply the force on the very tip of the brackets pipes. So the CG of the items mostly be in the middle of them. So the 15kg you apply there should be multiplied by the distance between the point you apply the force and the wall. I would slide the board you attached to the bracket all the way touching the wall. That could yield more realistic results. Incredible effort though. Respect and thank you.
The video test begins 06:01
this is really a test of 2 attachment points at once though - so isn't it more like "12.5 kilos / attachment" ? I have 3, 7 foot (american here) shelves, each with about 5 attachment points.
should have put a level on the board and checked along the way. the plaster board will fail at ~25kg but the shelf will start slanting before then. at what weight would it have started slanting would have been a good question to answer.
I'd like to use the IKEA Shelf/Rack (Item 10328587) to hold a couple of 3 gallon liquid detergent bottles (25 pounds)... but nowhere in the description does it say the maximum weight the Shelf/Rack can support!
Assuming I can find studs that are spaced 26 5/8 inches apart, any guess as to how much weight these little 3" brackets can hold?
Good testing mate. Obviously the only difference is ikea or any manufacturer would take all types of different fixings for plaster board into consideration when giving there 5 kg limit.
Yes, I suspect so. 👍
I have a 50 inch TV, on a wall mount hung on dot and dab plasterboard using Grip It fixings from Screwfix and seems to be holding OK. Would these Grip It fixings not work for mounting a floating shelf or floating unit to a dot and dab wall?
Watching this want me to go to ikea on sunday😎
I don't know, I kinda think it would be completely different with the actual shelf installed on the bracket. You say it yourself at the beginning of the vid: "the thicker the shelf, the more load it will take", meaning, that the shelf is higher than the bracket, giving it an extra support thus enabling it to take more load...
Don't think it would make much difference. 👍
I suspect that it would have failed faster if your anchors were situated at the center point between the studs rather than just a few inches away. And worse yet I think if your shelf was mounted entirely within the pocket between 2 studs (not straddling).
If I remember rightly, if I went for centre point on any of the holes I ended up hitting a stud on other holes, so swings & roundabouts. 👍
Great fun with your video. Thanks for sharing and continued success. Keep them coming. Love PegEgg
Does this apply to plasterboard glued to the actual wall too? I fitted 3 of ikea shelfs to one (110cm shelves) and put books on 2 of them. I did not use expanding plugs just your usual wall plags ( 7 in each shelf). Its only been 2 days so I hope this holds as I have a 200l fishtank underneath (Lord please). I am planning to do the same on other side of chimney so hope this wont destroy the plasterboard!
It's very easy to modify this shelf by simply drilling holds in the steel strip at the location of the studs.
What about the wooden shelf with brackets ? Can I fix these on plaster board
great test, but I'd like to point out that I have never seen the heavier duty drywall anchors included in a shelf kit. they always seem to be the cheapest plastic anchors you can find. Then again, I also have never bought an Ikea shelf, so maybe they come with it. As you have pointed out, just a bad idea unless you are going into a stud
IKEA don't supply any fittings - there's just too many variations for different types of walls etc. 👍🛠
Can i get the screw use in hanging the shelf in this video in IKEA dubai?
Hello, i was just trying to find out some info about those LACK shelves and if is it safe to store (around 10kg total) - secured in a brick wall, my concern is that one of those two steel "handles" could break loose, making the shelf to fall off the wall, you said in the video, that you recommend this shelf quite often, have you ever heard from any of your customers of a failure of those steel pipes? Thanks in advance for a reply.
What about concrete walls will it hold of big heavy LEGO sets
Nice test. I put a couple of those ikea shelves up last week into cinder block walls but used all ten holes on each bracket for screws and rawlplugs, I have four to put up on plasterboard walls soon and I am happy that they should take about 10 kg each max but would using all ten bracket holes for fixings actually weaken the plasterboard ?
They probably will if the holes are close together. Best to stagger the fixings.
Andy! There's a followup for you. Close hole fixings, does it strength, weaken or make no difference? :o)
My thoughts too Steve.
I would suspect the hole pattern shown by IKEA is the optimal route (2 at the top over each 'bar' and one on the bottom row in the middle). Is there drywall over the cinder block or bare block? 👍
Save some money and buy some 3/4 wide metal L shaped shelf brackets the non tapered type that sometimes have a brace / welded on a diagonal. 1) Cut a ledger board to the correct L/D/H 2) Mount the ledger board onto the wall at desired height screwing it into the studs. 3) Mount a shelf bracket in a horizonal orientation (sideways) onto and flush with the top of the ledger board with the brackets near or at each end. 4) Depending on how wide the span is you can add additional L brackets if needed. 5) slide the open core shelf over the entire assembly ledger included and screw/nail into the wood of the ledger from the top side of the shelf. BTW Flat (strap) steel bent in an L shape is much stronger when mounted sideways then steel tubing is, it also cost less ( about $3.00 per L) and is more versatile when making/sizing your own open core floating shelves.
I don't think all of this would be cheaper than a Lack shelf!! 😀👍
@@GosforthHandyman Hahaha! You may be correct! I picked up 12L brackets for the floating shelves I'm fabricating for a client and the L brackets alone cost me $41.00 bucks and some change. I don't think I had any other options other then making my own mounting system because the shelves are a mitered L configuration and very long (104'' by 65'') I suppose I could have used more then one of the pre-fabed mounting brackets.. but it seemed like it would be faster for me to make my own. Thanks Goforth! :)
It is interesting to test but the worst case would be when all the load is at one bracket. Failure is best established by looking at the displacement against load. You would see a change in the rate of displacement against load. This would be the point that when the load is removed the shelf does not return to its original unloaded position. This is most likely what IKEA refer to as failure.
I agree stick to the manufacturers guidelines.
I'm a diy noob and I've bought some Lack shelves but I've discovered the walls I'm installing on are plasterboard about 3-4 inches in and then concrete/highdensity material, and no studs that I can find with my detector.
All I've got are 6x30 Duopower plugs, would it be better to try to drill into concrete and shove two plugs in, or would it be fine just in the plasterboard with the shelves fixed to the wall with all 32 of the holes used on the mounting brackets?
Not gonna be using them to hold anything super heavy, mainly plastic figurines and light books, maybe a fan, stuff like that, they'll probably go over 5kg but I doubt I'll be holding 20kg with them
but they are above my bed and I'm slightly worried they'll fall on my head in my sleep one day xD
Sounds like dot & dab - see my vid about attaching to dot & dab. 👍👊
Interesting vid as usual, I wonder if you would get a slightly better result if the fixings were staggered on the bracket, three on the top line of holes two on the bottom.
At the moment there's 4 on the 'top' and 1 on the bottom which is the recommended fitting pattern by IKEA. 👍🛠
Gosforth Handyman , thanks for your reply. I just wondered if it would spread the load more, however won't go against the instructions. Have a great wk end.
Cheers bud - and you! 👍
I am looking at screwing a lack shelf onto plasterboard wall but having legs on to support, would this help with the weight
Can you help me, I have a shelf similar to this held in by 9 4x50mm screws with 5mm x 1inch grey wall plugs, the drill bit is about 5mm. What sort of weight will this hold at a guess? Because I want to put a 10 to 20 kg pc on it up against the back of the wall
It seems very secure at the bracket but there is some flex in the shelf I think, will I wake up with lots of quids worth of pc smashed on the floor?
what about on a cement wall? i am planing to use it as a tv stand but mounted it on a cement wall
I'm going to use these in my kitchen as open kitchen shelving so I want to secure the bracket into studs. Studs are generally 16 inches apart in the US. Does the bracket have holes to accommodate that width so I can secure it to studs?
i’m doing the same in my kitchen, and yes there are holes in the bracket 16 inches apart. good luck to you!
Thank you man you helped a lot, now Ik I can put pots on dem lol
Omg yes I was wondering if I could do that lol bc I had a few plants on my bookshelf and I was gonna get these so I could still have plants there but also get more storage in my room. I was scared if it would hold lol. Has it worked well for you ?
@@katiek6481 yeah
Love your vids, thanks for the advice
So I call these shelves "droopy shelves" as I haver never ever ever been able to get one to sit at 90 degrees to the wall. I usually end up putting packers under the bottom edge of the bracket to tilt it upwards so that when the shelf is added it's weight will pull it down to something close to 90 degrees. Any tips on how I can do this better?
Yes, pretty much exactly that - have a look at this vid: ruclips.net/video/SuO0LSUfXfk/видео.html
👍🛠
Thanks Andy that is exactly the video I have been looking for. What brand of snap-wedges are you using and do you have a link for them? Interestingly, it looks like your brackets had to be angled down a bit, was that right? Mine always sag under the weight of the shelf (unloaded) and I need to pack the bracket at the bottom to angle it up.
Andy! Patreon tells me I've been contributing at least a pint ($3) for a few months now. Tell me you've been enjoying a welcome beverage every now and then! I enjoy your videos btw - keep them coming!
He'll be lucky to get half a pint (of beer) for $3 here in the UK
He lives in Newcastle. You can still get pint for non-eyewatering prices up here ;-)
Absolutely and thank you for the awesome support Keith! 👍🍺😀
This is a nice test, but you need to minus the weight of the shelf if you are testing it upside down, although it is probably not much.
Thank you. You helped me much
It would be great if they'd put a bunch more holes in the the mounting bracket so you're more likely to be able to screw into a stud, and still line it up where you want it. I guess you could drill through the metal, but why make it such a pain in the ass?
Thanks for this. I've got a 1.9m lack on order. It's to go on a dot and dab wall with only about 10mm gap between the plasterboard and blockwork, so too shallow for a wall anchor. I wanted to use corefix but whatever the blocks are don't drill easily. Are grip its an option, if the weight is under 10kg and the load isn't near the end of the shelf?
How did it go? Is it flimsy? I've been seeing horror stories about how much flex these shelves get. I've been assuming it's just idiots with no idea how to mount shelves properly.
I think If there were actually studs in the test rig it could take more even if the fittings didn go into them. I'd like to seethe same test donewith studs at CC45 spacing which would be normal with a 900 wide plaster board. Maybe 1200 is the normal width though then it could be cc 40 in a modern house and cc 60 in an old one.
There are studs 👍
I agree with @rimmersbryggeri, there are no studs behind the drywall. As seen in 15:15.
I too would like to see this experiment done again with studs behind the drywall just as a real life scenario. In this Scenario there are no studs supporting the drywall.
Hi , why didn't you just pattress it to provide extra strength?
I was hoping to make a small floating desk for my keyboard and mouse to rest on (and my elbows or whatever when I’m using it). If my wall has studs, how deep of a desk do you think I could use with brackets like these? Could I do 18-20 inches, if I use a wood like oak that won’t break under the pressure?
Not a chance m'fraid - the bending of the poles would do your head in. They're strong but wouldn't handle forces like that. 👍
I had similar plans but after some research I decided to go for a wall mounted style (brackets on both ends, drilled and fixed into studs with lag bolts). I envisage the depth of my desk will be quite narrow (no more than 40cm from the wall to the edge of the desk), so I'm thinking it'll be fine. But, yeah, I really wanted a floating desk too, lol, but I think they work better when there's a supporting wall (or two) into which the desktop is situated.
What is the load limit on the Lack shelf if you’re able to fasten the bracket to 3 studs? I’m planning to use the longest Lack shelf as book storage and am hoping it can hold a lot of weight.
I am doing the same thing. How'd it turn out??
Please excuse my ignorance but why didn't you use the actual Lack shelf for this test?
Hi Andy, first excuse my english, i'm dutch... :-) I think i have an interesting test tuesday subject: i was gonna try it out myself, but then thought it's better done in the hands of you! question: how strong is a lose shelve from 18 mm mdf? a friend told me after a with of 60 cm (by 30 or 40cm) mdf wil bend. Whats your opinion on this? excuse my english again, it's been better, but i'm getting older and as it seems language seems te evaporate slowly but surly.... Greetings from Hollan, enjoying your work every week! Ed
Hi Ed! Yes, MDF can sag so anything over 60cm I would tend to use a different material such as plywood or a 'sandwich' several layers of wood glued together. 👍
What are you using to hold the brackets in place on the wood?
As you said, your weight is right at the edge, worst case. An equally distributed weight could probably double that before it breaks. I am pretty lucky in my place, most of the plasterboard is double thickness, so I can hang anything on mine.
👍
I'm not sure that's the absolute worst case scenario: wouldn't be worse if the load was applied on only one metal post?
No. He's right. A point load at the center would be the worst case scenario. That is where you would have the longest lever arm for either of the posts.
So suspenseful! Thank you for this😄 What did you mean exactly by the heavier the shelf the more it can carry & vice versa?
Where in the vid did I say that? I can't find it... 😀
1:30 I think you just meant it's less likely a thick shelf will bend in the middle verses a thin one. I'm trying to figure out how much weight my ekby jarpen can hold. Was hoping to screw it into studs on both sides, but don't really trust my stud finder. Might have to cut the shelf down to 24", which I don't want to do. Or use molly bolts on one side & a stud on the other 🤔
Andy I put the shelves up on concrete wall and they are sagging. Could I put some liquid foam in the holes in the shelves and put them back onto the brackets
Couldn't really comment without seeing it. 👍
I have these in my room and I use drywall anchor and it’s supporting just fine and I have my speakers and Xbox and PlayStation and laptop and printer and hair products and shower products and face products and trimmer for my beard and much more and it’s just fine without any problems just use dry wall anchors for every hole where the screws go in and it will be fine
Struggled with dry wall -itis since moving in1977. Fascinating test. But I'm curious about those screw fixings. Interesting to see them in place [usual hidden in the wall] - but were they as tight as you could make them or should they fold completely flat against the inside of the plasterboard?
Andy's technique is correct: www.duebel-shop.at/images/product_images/popup_images/1701_1.jpg
Yes, I think the legs form a triangle and hence the strength. 👍
The palsterboard might have lasted longer if the were some studs behind it [not necessarily] at fixing points
There are. 👍
So would it be ok on concrete ? And would I be ok to use the cross bar brackets for heavy loads Please?
Should be fine on concrete. These bars are pretty strong if they get a good fixing. 👍
For sure, use good plugs on a concrete block wall, for sure it will hold nearly anything you put on the shelves, i would never put a shelf on a plasterboard wall unless you can find the timber behind the plasterboard sheets to screw into
Wouldn't it be better to install the fixings diagonally?
Thank you for the video. This is exactly what I was looking for. I brought a couple of Lack shelve today. For some reason the metal bracket feels flimsy , like I can easily bend it with bare hands. It doesn't feel metal at all, feel more like plastic. Wondering if the quality is different here in Canada then UK.. Also, can you recommend screws to go with it for mounting it on studs. Should I reenforce the shelves with L-brackets
great test but to be fair you did not mount the plasterboard on studs which probably gives more strength
It is mounted on studs! 👍🛠
Hey Andy, I'm talking about the vertical studs which you have in real situation on your drywall the only one I see is the one on your workbench sorry maybe I'm wrong
There's vertical studs - I explained it in the vid. 👍
sorry I probably missed it :-P
👍😂
Fascinating stuff. Thanks.
Another great video and test great stuff
Cheers dude! 👍🛠
Thanks for video! Very interesting :)
👍🛠
Hi, new to the channel & subbed. Great video!! I was wondering how many studs you used behind the test rig? it seemed like you used 2, but I guess in a real world scenario a shelf situated in-between studs would get support from 3 (i.e both ends). The fail appeared to occur on the end where no stud seemed to be supporting the board?? wouldn't that be the weakest point
Yeah, 2 studs - I didn't have a piece of plasterboard big enough to do 3 😀 - in reality I don't think it would make much difference to the result - the other side failed more towards the bracket than the edge. 👍
Good point, never noticed :-S. Thanks for the reply, look forward to viewing all your previous. Love a UK channel! #thumbsup
Cheers Lee! 👍
I love these tests, inquiring minds want to know! :-) I wonder if there is an even slightly worse case if you apply your point load to the left or right end though, rather than the middle - maybe some extra leverage that way?
Cheers Craig! Yes, would defo expect lower results with point load over an end as opposed to middle. 👍🛠
so the shelf bracket is good only the wall is failing
whats the music at the start?
So is the bottom line NOT to put a TV on this shelf?
I imagine if it was plastered it would help you a little bit but how much I have no idea
Maybe I missed it, but how thick is the drywall? 1/2" or 5/8" ?
Never mind I just saw it on the website, it's 12.5mm = 1/2". Which is good to know, 5/8" (as is very common commercial / apartment buildings in New York at least) should be somewhat stronger
12.5mm 👍
Hi Andy
Your latest Patreon subscriber here I was v interested in your video on the bandsaw. I originally ad a dewalt bandsaw which I thought was pretty rubbish and it quickly failed. I liked the look of your axminster bandsaw. Which model was it and how much did it cost. Cheers Tony
Cheers for the support Tony! It's the HBS350N and it was about £700 - bit more info here: gosforthhandyman.com/2018/02/ive-started-a-blog/ 👍
It cam hold 30 KG just drilling into dry wall, no studs? that's crazy wow
Andy, how can I send you some pictures of the work I’ve just finished, ?
Instagram / Twitter or via gosforthhandyman.com 👍
Great test :-)
🛠👍
Th problem is not the bracket, is the actual board of the shelf. Those MDM or particle board did not last. Please test the whole board
Great watch. You are good at this RUclips malarkey 👍👏👏👏
Ha - cheers Kevin! 👍
Fantastic job thanks