I just got this recommended on my home page and it's a fantastic video and point. I've been incredibly frustrated by the new deterministic recoil. Prior to it for PVE, I almost always wanted Arrowhead Brake on weapons with low recoil stats for this reason and it was a tad boring but it was predictable, which matters more. Last week, I spent 99 ritual engrams on a weapon to get the major perk combo I wanted only to find out that despite the recoil direction stat looking fine in the screen, the actual recoil was horrendous. If they're going to continue with this, I want more information displayed about it and I want barrels to be craftable/changeable. The best recoil pattern for a given weapon might be with Extended Barrel and a Counterbalance mod but there's no way to know what to hunt for anymore until you get it because 100 might not reliably be the most vertical anymore. Not knowing if your loot is something that will feel like shit until you get it is a bad thing in a looter shooter. Some people may say "well, learn your recoil pattern, manage it, and it'll be fine". This is easier in other shooters. In Destiny, I am regularly forced into specific loadouts for champion stunning or subclass synergy. You don't get to just stick with the five guns you have recoil patterns memorized for like Call of Duty because this is a game about buildcrafting now. You use what the build demands. When they decided on less predictable recoil patterns you "learn with time", it would otherwise be sound design, but I think they forgot the kind of game they're making. Also for PVE (the only mode I care about), I'm not gonna give up a perk like Demolitionist or Enlightened Action for Zen Moment or Dynamic Sway no matter how good they are. Anyway, you mentioned a lot that has been bothering me. I hope it catches on with some bigger Destiny creators as the way the information is presented and the way the player can influence recoil needs to change. Liked and Subbed
Appreciate the kind words. TBH I was slightly worried this would draw the "learn your recoil pattern" crowd who would miss the point of the video. More clarity is always better and any way we can get more info clearly conveyed on the screen the better.
In Destiny each individual Weapon has their own spray pattern they follow. Almost all MP Shooters have this system and its perfectly fine cause u have a variety of different behaving weapons that u can choose your fav and master it. There was an overhaul at some point, like for example removing zoom affecting effective range and recoil (Long Zoom reduced recoil kick a lot) Take for example the Riposte Auto Rifle. it always breaks out to the right at the beginning and then stabilizes upwards. Thats your spray pattern. The Recoil Direction helps keeping your pattern on that spray without jumping out to the right or left to a certain degree. When firing full auto the recoil direction is flowing from left to right. Having 100 Recoil Direction is a perfectly vertical line and removes any additional jumping from side to side. If u have a recoil cone that leans to one side, for example if u have recoil direciton of 61 the spray pattern has additional pull towards the displayed side. Thats why u should go for a recoil direction of 95, 85, 75 and so on, the cone is still perfectly vertically aligned but is wider which has extra movment jumping slightly left and right, however it still follows the spray pattern in a line. Your Imminence at 4:40 has an uneven Recoil Direction (93) which leans slightly left. T hats why the spray pattern moves to that side. So lets say u have 100 Recoil Direction there is still bullet spread. Stability helps keeping the bullet spray tighter around your Crosshair. However there is another mechanical layer affecting the direction. The Imminence u used at 3:50 for example has Dynamic Sway Reduction. Each shot while holding down the trigger grants: • 1 Stability • -5% Accuracy Cone Size • -10% Accuracy Cone Growth Reaches maximum strength after 10 shots, granting • 10 Stability • -50% Accuracy Cone Size • -100% Accuracy Cone Growth This reduces the penalty for shooting full auto holding your shots tighter at your Crosshair. (When hipfiring u can see that the crosshair has a inner and outer part representing your AIM. Thats why for example a higher airborne effectiveness stat reduces the penalty when jumping/flying which u can notice by a lot) There is also Zen Moment which is super Overpowered imo. It reduces recoil kick upwards and also keeps your aim super stable. at 5 Stacks u have : • Reduced Visual Weapon Shake by 75% • Reduced Reticle Bounce by 75% My Point is the Mechanics are perfectly fine. There is the Spray Pattern each Weapon has. Recoil Direction affects how stable it follows that pattern. Stability affects Accuracy Cone Jumping inside your Crosshair (Bullet Spread, how tight they are) Then there is ofc Bullet Magnetism / Hit detection, which is affected by Aim Assistance (Crosshair doesnt have to be perfectly placed on the Head to register as a Hit/Crit for the first shots, accuracy cone stat affects this). Bungie is just doing a poor Job explaining it properly in any of their descriptions. without 3rd Party Tools like D2Foundry / DIM we wouldnt know any details what perks actually do and even then it took me a lot of research and testing what factors affect aiming in what way. There should be a Guide/Menu where u basicly can browse through the Stat Values with an explanation how it works and can be affected by.
Yes, but also no. Iminence does lean to the left, but the point is more to do with the 3 pattern it makes regardless of recoil direction. Deterministic recoil, as a whole, is unclear and not conveyed in the game, which is the overarching point. Recoil direction does make the pattern more vertical sometimes, but there are also times where a worse recoil direction actually counters deterministic recoil, which is the crux of the issue. Number go up is the mindset of most players and most players will, by default, try to make that number as high as possible, which can be detrimental to the useability of the weapon. The point of all this is to highlight the lack of clarity in game and to suggest an alternative that doesn't require players to shoot at a wall for 5 minutes trying to figure out exactly which combo is going to give them what they want. So yes, the mechanic is "perfectly fine" except that it is entirely obtuse and not represented at all on the weapon and the recoil direction stat, and in a modern context, is at best unclear and at worst blatantly incorrect.
I think all weapons in the game should have the option to swap the barrel, mag, and master work, like crafted weapons, this way you have a way to make a gun feel better to the player. Having those items fixed even on random rolls, can ruin a weapon and its feel.
I get you. Talking about crafting and enhancing is a whole other video that'd I'd like to have better planned out before tackling but I can definitely appreciate why people would want that.
Hey this is a really good constructive point for the game actually, i like this and i think that’s something our community is lacking of. Keep going on this route i hope people will understand the point of view of someone who loves this game🫶🏻
I just got this recommended on my home page and it's a fantastic video and point. I've been incredibly frustrated by the new deterministic recoil. Prior to it for PVE, I almost always wanted Arrowhead Brake on weapons with low recoil stats for this reason and it was a tad boring but it was predictable, which matters more. Last week, I spent 99 ritual engrams on a weapon to get the major perk combo I wanted only to find out that despite the recoil direction stat looking fine in the screen, the actual recoil was horrendous. If they're going to continue with this, I want more information displayed about it and I want barrels to be craftable/changeable. The best recoil pattern for a given weapon might be with Extended Barrel and a Counterbalance mod but there's no way to know what to hunt for anymore until you get it because 100 might not reliably be the most vertical anymore. Not knowing if your loot is something that will feel like shit until you get it is a bad thing in a looter shooter.
Some people may say "well, learn your recoil pattern, manage it, and it'll be fine". This is easier in other shooters. In Destiny, I am regularly forced into specific loadouts for champion stunning or subclass synergy. You don't get to just stick with the five guns you have recoil patterns memorized for like Call of Duty because this is a game about buildcrafting now. You use what the build demands. When they decided on less predictable recoil patterns you "learn with time", it would otherwise be sound design, but I think they forgot the kind of game they're making.
Also for PVE (the only mode I care about), I'm not gonna give up a perk like Demolitionist or Enlightened Action for Zen Moment or Dynamic Sway no matter how good they are.
Anyway, you mentioned a lot that has been bothering me. I hope it catches on with some bigger Destiny creators as the way the information is presented and the way the player can influence recoil needs to change. Liked and Subbed
Appreciate the kind words. TBH I was slightly worried this would draw the "learn your recoil pattern" crowd who would miss the point of the video. More clarity is always better and any way we can get more info clearly conveyed on the screen the better.
I did hear your cat meowing near the beginning of the video XD
He's the co-editor
In Destiny each individual Weapon has their own spray pattern they follow. Almost all MP Shooters have this system and its perfectly fine
cause u have a variety of different behaving weapons that u can choose your fav and master it.
There was an overhaul at some point, like for example removing zoom affecting effective range and recoil (Long Zoom reduced recoil kick a lot)
Take for example the Riposte Auto Rifle. it always breaks out to the right at the beginning and then stabilizes upwards.
Thats your spray pattern. The Recoil Direction helps keeping your pattern on that spray without jumping out to the right or left
to a certain degree. When firing full auto the recoil direction is flowing from left to right. Having 100 Recoil Direction is
a perfectly vertical line and removes any additional jumping from side to side. If u have a recoil cone that leans to one side,
for example if u have recoil direciton of 61 the spray pattern has additional pull towards the displayed side. Thats why u should go for
a recoil direction of 95, 85, 75 and so on, the cone is still perfectly vertically aligned but is wider which has extra movment jumping slightly left and right,
however it still follows the spray pattern in a line.
Your Imminence at 4:40 has an uneven Recoil Direction (93) which leans slightly left. T
hats why the spray pattern moves to that side.
So lets say u have 100 Recoil Direction there is still bullet spread.
Stability helps keeping the bullet spray tighter around your Crosshair.
However there is another mechanical layer affecting the direction.
The Imminence u used at 3:50 for example has Dynamic Sway Reduction.
Each shot while holding down the trigger grants:
• 1 Stability
• -5% Accuracy Cone Size
• -10% Accuracy Cone Growth
Reaches maximum strength after 10 shots, granting
• 10 Stability
• -50% Accuracy Cone Size
• -100% Accuracy Cone Growth
This reduces the penalty for shooting full auto holding your shots tighter at your Crosshair.
(When hipfiring u can see that the crosshair has a inner and outer part representing your AIM.
Thats why for example a higher airborne effectiveness stat reduces the penalty when jumping/flying which
u can notice by a lot)
There is also Zen Moment which is super Overpowered imo.
It reduces recoil kick upwards
and also keeps your aim super stable.
at 5 Stacks u have :
• Reduced Visual Weapon Shake by 75%
• Reduced Reticle Bounce by 75%
My Point is the Mechanics are perfectly fine.
There is the Spray Pattern each Weapon has.
Recoil Direction affects how stable it follows that pattern.
Stability affects Accuracy Cone Jumping inside your Crosshair
(Bullet Spread, how tight they are)
Then there is ofc Bullet Magnetism / Hit detection,
which is affected by Aim Assistance
(Crosshair doesnt have to be perfectly placed on the Head to register
as a Hit/Crit for the first shots, accuracy cone stat affects this).
Bungie is just doing a poor Job explaining it properly in any of their descriptions.
without 3rd Party Tools like D2Foundry / DIM we wouldnt know any details what perks actually do
and even then it took me a lot of research and testing what factors affect aiming in what way.
There should be a Guide/Menu where u basicly can browse through the Stat Values with an explanation
how it works and can be affected by.
You are awesome
Yes, but also no. Iminence does lean to the left, but the point is more to do with the 3 pattern it makes regardless of recoil direction. Deterministic recoil, as a whole, is unclear and not conveyed in the game, which is the overarching point. Recoil direction does make the pattern more vertical sometimes, but there are also times where a worse recoil direction actually counters deterministic recoil, which is the crux of the issue. Number go up is the mindset of most players and most players will, by default, try to make that number as high as possible, which can be detrimental to the useability of the weapon. The point of all this is to highlight the lack of clarity in game and to suggest an alternative that doesn't require players to shoot at a wall for 5 minutes trying to figure out exactly which combo is going to give them what they want.
So yes, the mechanic is "perfectly fine" except that it is entirely obtuse and not represented at all on the weapon and the recoil direction stat, and in a modern context, is at best unclear and at worst blatantly incorrect.
I think all weapons in the game should have the option to swap the barrel, mag, and master work, like crafted weapons, this way you have a way to make a gun feel better to the player. Having those items fixed even on random rolls, can ruin a weapon and its feel.
I get you. Talking about crafting and enhancing is a whole other video that'd I'd like to have better planned out before tackling but I can definitely appreciate why people would want that.
Kinda takes away from the looter aspect of looter shotter.
Then what’s the grind
@@will39490 the grind can come in the form of skins, shaders, other cosmetics, etc. things like limited skins like the brave arsenal
UNFATHOMABLY BASED VIDEO
Hey this is a really good constructive point for the game actually, i like this and i think that’s something our community is lacking of.
Keep going on this route i hope people will understand the point of view of someone who loves this game🫶🏻
Appreciate the kind words.