Agree 100%. That radar activity map was moving at an incredible rate. When he had them turn right at the end I was thinking no way. He greased them in. All of them. Best in the world.
Not sure about the CRM here, or could just be a very inexperienced FO - I'm assuming the captain was running checklists and diagnosing the problem in this case, but STILL have to take over comms multiple times from the FO as important calls and information wasn't being relayed/followed.
First time I've ever heard an ELT. Thanks to those that answered on other threads what an ELT is. Learning something new every time I listen to this channel
@@k.pacificnw02134 Strong signal means it's close by, weak signal means it's more distant from reporting aircraft, necessary info to provide if a search for a downed aircraft is needed.
@@k.pacificnw02134Planes have of a ELT signal if it experienced high G force impact or is submerged in water. (Meaning the plane has to be as well). A strong ELT
@@brunotcs I do not see the time stamp on this. However ELT tests are only supposed to be preformed at the top of the hour for just a few seconds. Had a Falcon 10 only our ramp that came in the day before an airshow at our airport that had landed a little hard, the next morning the local CAP unit shows up with their hand held tracker and it led them right to it. Had to call the guy that worked on it to come turn it off since I didn't have a key to get into it.
It's always fairly easy to back seat the pilot, but in those case, there are some concerns with the First Officer's (I assume) radio communications. He's not speaking particularly clearly, missing questions from ATC, and causing the Captain to come over and correct multiple times. Of course, it's an emergency situation so he has other obligations, but it just seems rather subpar especially in this situation.
I was discussing the recent 777-200 engine failure with someone recently and they pointed out that, in this day and age of communication and these sorts of videos made about scenarios,the pilots have one chance to get things right whilst in the public eye - their 15 minutes of fame. To sound like a fool on the radio, even for those 777-200 guys, isn’t a good look.
Pilots always so scared to declare an emergency. Nobody will get mad at you, just means you take priority over other non crippled aircraft. If you’re not sure whether to declare, just go ahead and do it and sort it out on the ground.
@@VASAviation I and many others have always assumed the EM suddenly appearing is because they squawked 7700 at that time. What is the purpose of showing it half way through the video if it’s just to highlight the emergency aircraft? Can it not be done from the start? Or is it usually when they squawk 7700 but in this case they declared emergency but didn’t squawk (which I guess they should’ve but had other priorities?)
WOw, just yesterday I tried to land flapless 738 and on short final stall speed was 150kts or so and it's not a problem unless in winter condition you have poor breaking action, good decision to divert as there was accident on KLGA Delta MD applied to much breaking on snowy runway ending up in rwy excursion
I always get the impression that smaller AC have a harder time on poor condition rwys. I imagine a 74 or a Galaxy stop better as their weight can push water and ice out from under them better. I know this is the case for road vehicles, but never really stopped to compare two heavies like a 73 vs a 74 or bigger (I use heavies in the AF identification, basically anything that is bigger than a fighter, so even a U2 is considered a heavy. Im trying to remember, but I think the limit was anything you cant tow by humans pushing it is a heavy lol)
from reading comments seems FO might need a little more training if he wasnt reacting and responding as he needs to when declaring emergency, yes u have a checklist to do but the ATC also needs to know whats going on and what u need etce tc
Another jet blue e190 seemed to have the same issue today, April 22, 2021. No news about it yet. A friend was on the flight and told about it. He landed in Newark.
Something I've never understood (not a pilot, just an enthusiast) - are emergency declarations supposed to report fuel remaining in minutes/time or in pounds/weight? The ATC at 3:14 asks for pounds first and corrects to minutes. But I've definitely heard other recordings where they ask for pounds, not minutes. What's the actual requirement here?
Controller needs to know time remaining so he can make sure to get them on the ground before they run out. The fire trucks need to know pounds so they know how big a fire they might need to put out. So it depends on the nature of the emergency and how far into the emergency they are.
Traditionally it is in pounds. My guess is he asked for minutes in case of a diversion and figuring out what priority he needed to get the flight in. Approach puts the CargoJet in front of JBU since he knows that they have a good amount of fuel and they need more time.
Minutes remaining aloft is universal to all aircraft. Pounds can be related to scale. I've heard both. From the fire management side you can estimate pounds by aircraft type and time remaining. I like the time aspect. Let's everyone around them know their status.
@@IcthioVelocipede This makes sense, and I’ve considered both needs. Especially when CFR asks how much fuel the aircraft has and Tower reports back time instead of weight, I think that’s much less helpful. Surprised it’s not standardized.
To any pilots, would it be especially more difficult to get souls onboard, as well as both fuel in pounds and fuel in minutes, while running checklists and aviating?
Or being freaking cold. Hydraulic issues creep up more during the winter. Plane goes from warm to cold, condensation forms and can have ice jams. Having worked ARFF, hydraulic issue were more common in the winter.
@@TinkSalsa you test an ELT the first 5 min after the hour if one needs to be tested. If the time stamp is correct it was close to this so its a possibility it was just a test. Usually it's this or was accidentally switched on, typically never a real crash, but good on them to notify
With such a failure you just end up with a much higher approach and landing speed. Provided there wasn’t a significant missed approach, I.e. a noticeable thrust and pitch change, then you’re unlikely even to tell the passengers. As for the level of emergency. You’re not about to die, so it’s not Mayday. As for the FO, I guess he’s flying the plane and talking to ATC whilst the Captain is checking the NNC and running performance. How he cannot tell ATC they have a flap fault is beyond me, and it takes the Captain to intervene. Something wrong with the CRM and FO’s ability here.
Love how the controller asks for fuel in pounds and pilot give it in time. As a ARFF firefighter, I don't know the plane's burn rate of fuel. I do have charts for based on how much fuel in pounds or gallons should be required for X amount of agent to extinguish a fire if it were to occur. The only information I can glean from 72 minutes of fuel is there's plenty enough to put out. On the plus side, it's winter, so ignition will be a little more challenging than in summer. Kerosene ignites around 100 degrees F, unlike aviation gas (high octane gasoline) which is -20 F.
Would that be valuable to the controller to be sure they didn't spend too much time running checklists and got it down before it was empty? The controller first asked pounds, then corrected to time, and time is what he got.
ARFF does not possess a binder with factory specs. for all aircraft types? With all those nice things to know, like door position, typical number of seats, fuel tank size (100 lbs or 100 000lbs), APU location, location and type of batteries, ...
@@Aimless6 Yes we have that binder, but fuel time is subjective. I was on an incident where the tower asked the pilot for fuel quantity and the response was 5 hours. What I took away from that was she was full. This was a 757 cross country flight from BOS to LAX that had to shut down an engine over ALB and landed in SYR. So the burn rate for single engine is different than dual engine.
ARFF needs pounds, but ATC needs time. Both have their uses. As far as "ignition temperature," though, I think you meant flash point (i.e. the temperature at which it can vaporize and form a combustible mixture in air.) If gas autoignited at -20 F, we'd be in a lot of trouble. :) Same for Jet-A autoigniting at 100 F, for that matter. Every jet in Phoenix would burn daily.
You were hearing the audio of the ELT through the reporting pilot’s radio. ELTs always broadcast on 121.5, a dedicated emergency frequency. They don’t broadcast on a frequency used for day-to-day communications.
What fumo said is correct - you were just hearing it through speakers into a microphone, not actually broadcast onto the frequency being recorded. That said, it would be normal anyway. Aviation radios are AM. You'll get intermodulation of more than one transmitter is going at once, but you can often still make out what's being said anyway (depends on strength/severity of the intermod.)
@@vbscript2 Thanks. I was wondering why there wasn't any intermodulation. I didn't realize the recording was from a pilot's radio this time instead of LiveATC. I thought if we were hearing the ELT, we must've been listening to a recording of the guard frequency--and why was everybody talking on guard?? But this makes a lot more sense.
@@markwistey2802 The recording is from LiveATC, but not on Guard. What was happening is that someone's second radio was tuned to Guard (which is normal) and we were hearing the ELT coming out of the speakers from their second radio into their microphone when they were transmitting on the frequency we were listening to.
Anyone monitoring 121.5 will hear an ELT if they are in range of it. Could have been from the ramp, could have been elsewhere. Only people that would know would be someone with equipment to find the source.
Good news: All Silverados have been grounded! After review, the FAA found that no type certificate had ever been issued for the Silverado, so it's illegal to fly them in the U.S. now.
Good job, all! A couple of questions: What was that goshawful audible alarm in the Tower? And what is an ELT? (Not to be confused with a BLT; *that* I could eat right this minute!)
Emergency Locator Transmitter, it goes off when a plane crashes so other aircrafts can pick up the signal and locate the crash site. It gets stronger the closer you get to the source, that is the reason why the Capt said they were “picking up a strong ELT signal”.
Try this. Say “we might have a flap issue”. Took me about 1.5 seconds with a southern drawl. Set the table with facts instead of having the controller sit around with his thumb up his ass wondering what’s going on.
![[REAL ATC] MD-80 DELTA CRASH at La Guardia Airport](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/biDnVJ6EqA8/mqdefault.jpg)
![[UNEDITED] Jetblue E190 has FLAPS FAILURE at LaGuardia](/img/1.gif)
That one guy working JFK Approach was awesome.
Watch his radar and job untrimmed --> ruclips.net/video/ygEMS7wfSrM/видео.html
VAS, you’ve been putting in the overtime lately! Great work!
Agree 100%. That radar activity map was moving at an incredible rate. When he had them turn right at the end I was thinking no way. He greased them in. All of them. Best in the world.
I was tracking this flight live and listening to atc while it happened! Passed right over my house twice!
Lol I’ve taken this route before so this is a lil crazy for me could’ve been my trip lol
Not sure about the CRM here, or could just be a very inexperienced FO - I'm assuming the captain was running checklists and diagnosing the problem in this case, but STILL have to take over comms multiple times from the FO as important calls and information wasn't being relayed/followed.
Latino didn't enunciate clearly
First time I've ever heard an ELT. Thanks to those that answered on other threads what an ELT is. Learning something new every time I listen to this channel
Probably an aircraft in the ground doing a pre-flight check?
@@brunotcs could be, i believe that if youre going to test an elt, youre supposed to test it in the first 5 mins of the hour or something like that.
What is an ELT? Was that the alarm? And what does "getting a strong one" mean? There's different kinds? Thank you!
@@k.pacificnw02134 Strong signal means it's close by, weak signal means it's more distant from reporting aircraft, necessary info to provide if a search for a downed aircraft is needed.
@@k.pacificnw02134Planes have of a ELT signal if it experienced high G force impact or is submerged in water. (Meaning the plane has to be as well). A strong ELT
First time hearing the ELT going off
Probably an aircraft in the ground doing a pre-flight check?
@@brunotcs I do not see the time stamp on this. However ELT tests are only supposed to be preformed at the top of the hour for just a few seconds. Had a Falcon 10 only our ramp that came in the day before an airshow at our airport that had landed a little hard, the next morning the local CAP unit shows up with their hand held tracker and it led them right to it. Had to call the guy that worked on it to come turn it off since I didn't have a key to get into it.
@@ImpendingJoker I heard that as well and someone come on FQ and said they heard a strong ELT going off. Glad it wasn't another aircraft down
@@grouperkng1 what does "ELT" stand for ?
@@MahmoudMohammed-nu5pg Emergency Locator Transmitter
It's always fairly easy to back seat the pilot, but in those case, there are some concerns with the First Officer's (I assume) radio communications. He's not speaking particularly clearly, missing questions from ATC, and causing the Captain to come over and correct multiple times. Of course, it's an emergency situation so he has other obligations, but it just seems rather subpar especially in this situation.
What was the big mystery about disclosing the issue as well.
Thanks for your input, Mr.Yeager.
Do I hear a foreign accent? Indian maybe?
Definitely a bit of mumbling from the pilot, but could be worse.
Maybe the Mexican guy was the captain and the white guy the FO
FO did not seem the sharpest tool in the shed.
“ will be a fast approach “
controller : not the only thing I’ve seen fast fly today 😀
Isn't really surprising. The plane flew once prior to this flight back in February after storage at Pinal Park.
Thankyou for everyone who had a hand in landing this plane safely.
F.O. Is terrible on the radio. Difference between him and the Captain is remarkable, and scary given the importance of clear communication.
I was discussing the recent 777-200 engine failure with someone recently and they pointed out that, in this day and age of communication and these sorts of videos made about scenarios,the pilots have one chance to get things right whilst in the public eye - their 15 minutes of fame. To sound like a fool on the radio, even for those 777-200 guys, isn’t a good look.
I was going to say this was a re-upload until I remembered the other one was a JAZZ flight.
Pilots always so scared to declare an emergency. Nobody will get mad at you, just means you take priority over other non crippled aircraft. If you’re not sure whether to declare, just go ahead and do it and sort it out on the ground.
Why are pilots so hesitant to declare emergencies?
Is it just me or did the controllers declare emergency for them? As soon as they mentioned the flaps.
It may have been skipped but I'm pretty sure the red EM indicator implies that they squawked emergency so ATC would know
They didn't squawk EM
If ATC deems it necessary they will declare the emergency instead of waiting for the crew to do it.
@@VASAviation I and many others have always assumed the EM suddenly appearing is because they squawked 7700 at that time. What is the purpose of showing it half way through the video if it’s just to highlight the emergency aircraft? Can it not be done from the start?
Or is it usually when they squawk 7700 but in this case they declared emergency but didn’t squawk (which I guess they should’ve but had other priorities?)
WOw, just yesterday I tried to land flapless 738 and on short final stall speed was 150kts or so and it's not a problem unless in winter condition you have poor breaking action, good decision to divert as there was accident on KLGA Delta MD applied to much breaking on snowy runway ending up in rwy excursion
I always get the impression that smaller AC have a harder time on poor condition rwys. I imagine a 74 or a Galaxy stop better as their weight can push water and ice out from under them better. I know this is the case for road vehicles, but never really stopped to compare two heavies like a 73 vs a 74 or bigger (I use heavies in the AF identification, basically anything that is bigger than a fighter, so even a U2 is considered a heavy. Im trying to remember, but I think the limit was anything you cant tow by humans pushing it is a heavy lol)
from reading comments seems FO might need a little more training if he wasnt reacting and responding as he needs to when declaring emergency, yes u have a checklist to do but the ATC also needs to know whats going on and what u need etce tc
FO needed some help, huh?
Task saturated maybe
Another jet blue e190 seemed to have the same issue today, April 22, 2021. No news about it yet. A friend was on the flight and told about it. He landed in Newark.
Great job! That’s a roller coaster landing!
Another day at the office, back to lunch.
What was the siren sound blaring at 4:52 - was it the ELT alarm and why would it be going off if there wasn’t any high G crash or submersion in water?
Yes, it was an ELT, but most likely someone else's, probably doing a test or activated by accident.
W8246 in the wild, nice.
Something I've never understood (not a pilot, just an enthusiast) - are emergency declarations supposed to report fuel remaining in minutes/time or in pounds/weight? The ATC at 3:14 asks for pounds first and corrects to minutes. But I've definitely heard other recordings where they ask for pounds, not minutes. What's the actual requirement here?
Controller needs to know time remaining so he can make sure to get them on the ground before they run out. The fire trucks need to know pounds so they know how big a fire they might need to put out. So it depends on the nature of the emergency and how far into the emergency they are.
Traditionally it is in pounds. My guess is he asked for minutes in case of a diversion and figuring out what priority he needed to get the flight in. Approach puts the CargoJet in front of JBU since he knows that they have a good amount of fuel and they need more time.
Minutes remaining aloft is universal to all aircraft. Pounds can be related to scale. I've heard both. From the fire management side you can estimate pounds by aircraft type and time remaining. I like the time aspect. Let's everyone around them know their status.
@@IcthioVelocipede This makes sense, and I’ve considered both needs. Especially when CFR asks how much fuel the aircraft has and Tower reports back time instead of weight, I think that’s much less helpful. Surprised it’s not standardized.
To any pilots, would it be especially more difficult to get souls onboard, as well as both fuel in pounds and fuel in minutes, while running checklists and aviating?
Is the flaps failure new hip thing or something?
Probably a result of some of these plane being in storage for so long I guess.
Or being freaking cold. Hydraulic issues creep up more during the winter. Plane goes from warm to cold, condensation forms and can have ice jams.
Having worked ARFF, hydraulic issue were more common in the winter.
@@TenOfZero1 mostly boeing 737-max. JB runs Embraer and Airbus.
@@fyrman9092 That make sense. :-) Thanks for the insight !
Why divert? Longer runway?
14,500 feet at JFK vs. 7000 feet at LGA.
Affirm
Not to mention that when you're long at LGA, you're in the water as well.
@@HarryStar56 : that's one way to cool the brakes.
@@HarryStar56 LGA has an EMAS system though. It’ll stop aircraft from going in the water.
Was it cut or JBU1262 wasn't given clearance to KJFK? ("Cleared to Kennedy via radar vector", etc)
That was after he was already given to JFK approach. The clearance, if given, will be before that.
Never cleared
4:52 Whose/what alarm is that?
ELT
@@carpetweaver935 why was the ELT going off?
@@carpetweaver935 Thank you!
@@TinkSalsa you test an ELT the first 5 min after the hour if one needs to be tested. If the time stamp is correct it was close to this so its a possibility it was just a test. Usually it's this or was accidentally switched on, typically never a real crash, but good on them to notify
@@heefie8659 note to self: don’t have an emergency in a plane during the first five minutes of an hour.
Mint
With such a failure you just end up with a much higher approach and landing speed. Provided there wasn’t a significant missed approach, I.e. a noticeable thrust and pitch change, then you’re unlikely even to tell the passengers. As for the level of emergency. You’re not about to die, so it’s not Mayday. As for the FO, I guess he’s flying the plane and talking to ATC whilst the Captain is checking the NNC and running performance. How he cannot tell ATC they have a flap fault is beyond me, and it takes the Captain to intervene. Something wrong with the CRM and FO’s ability here.
How many more are getting flaps failures this week?
love the channel
Love how the controller asks for fuel in pounds and pilot give it in time. As a ARFF firefighter, I don't know the plane's burn rate of fuel. I do have charts for based on how much fuel in pounds or gallons should be required for X amount of agent to extinguish a fire if it were to occur.
The only information I can glean from 72 minutes of fuel is there's plenty enough to put out. On the plus side, it's winter, so ignition will be a little more challenging than in summer. Kerosene ignites around 100 degrees F, unlike aviation gas (high octane gasoline) which is -20 F.
Would that be valuable to the controller to be sure they didn't spend too much time running checklists and got it down before it was empty? The controller first asked pounds, then corrected to time, and time is what he got.
ARFF does not possess a binder with factory specs. for all aircraft types? With all those nice things to know, like door position, typical number of seats, fuel tank size (100 lbs or 100 000lbs), APU location, location and type of batteries, ...
@@Aimless6 Yes we have that binder, but fuel time is subjective. I was on an incident where the tower asked the pilot for fuel quantity and the response was 5 hours. What I took away from that was she was full. This was a 757 cross country flight from BOS to LAX that had to shut down an engine over ALB and landed in SYR. So the burn rate for single engine is different than dual engine.
ARFF needs pounds, but ATC needs time. Both have their uses. As far as "ignition temperature," though, I think you meant flash point (i.e. the temperature at which it can vaporize and form a combustible mixture in air.) If gas autoignited at -20 F, we'd be in a lot of trouble. :) Same for Jet-A autoigniting at 100 F, for that matter. Every jet in Phoenix would burn daily.
The controller asked for fuel in minutes, there is no need for pounds here
Hey jetblue, ever heard of a PAN PAN call ?
I mdan the were so persitence of not declaring a emeegency in the befinning...
PAN PAN is not used in the US
@@jadawo not traditionally but is recognized if used if I remember correctly
@@jadawo wow i didn't know that
It is recognized in icao buf most pilot in US dont use it
@@jadawo Yes it is. Not as common, but it is used and is described in the AIM (6-3-1 d).
What was that ELT from? The flapless flight?
Probably an aircraft in the ground doing a pre-flight check
@@brunotcs Hopefully *on* the ground, not in it.
@@PVO300C I was obviously talking about those Swiss fighter jets that are kept in caves...😅
It sounded like the ELT did not actually block other radio transmissions (although it was certainly loud). Is that normal?
You were hearing the audio of the ELT through the reporting pilot’s radio. ELTs always broadcast on 121.5, a dedicated emergency frequency. They don’t broadcast on a frequency used for day-to-day communications.
What fumo said is correct - you were just hearing it through speakers into a microphone, not actually broadcast onto the frequency being recorded. That said, it would be normal anyway. Aviation radios are AM. You'll get intermodulation of more than one transmitter is going at once, but you can often still make out what's being said anyway (depends on strength/severity of the intermod.)
@@vbscript2 Thanks. I was wondering why there wasn't any intermodulation. I didn't realize the recording was from a pilot's radio this time instead of LiveATC. I thought if we were hearing the ELT, we must've been listening to a recording of the guard frequency--and why was everybody talking on guard?? But this makes a lot more sense.
@@markwistey2802 The recording is from LiveATC, but not on Guard. What was happening is that someone's second radio was tuned to Guard (which is normal) and we were hearing the ELT coming out of the speakers from their second radio into their microphone when they were transmitting on the frequency we were listening to.
GO BIg Blue!
Sounds like the ELT coming through in the TRACON, so most likely coming from the ramp?
If you listen to the untrimmed version, one of the other pilots reported it as well, but they didn't say anything more about it.
Anyone monitoring 121.5 will hear an ELT if they are in range of it. Could have been from the ramp, could have been elsewhere. Only people that would know would be someone with equipment to find the source.
What was the ELT about? Something else going off simultaneously?
Aviation's equivalent of a distress beacon...I don't get why that was going off.
@@comicsansgreenkirby I know what it is. I'm wondering about the context.
Probably an aircraft in the ground doing a pre-flight check
Why did the crew wait so long to answer ATCs question about the nature of the problem?
Aviate, Navigate, Communicate. Normally "contact ATC" isn't until the bottom of a checklist.
Because they’re doing a bad job at managing the situation.
Ground them all, and all Chevy Silverados!
Good news: All Silverados have been grounded! After review, the FAA found that no type certificate had ever been issued for the Silverado, so it's illegal to fly them in the U.S. now.
What is N90K? JFK approach?
The regional TRACON.
N90 tracon, sector K
Good job, all! A couple of questions: What was that goshawful audible alarm in the Tower? And what is an ELT? (Not to be confused with a BLT; *that* I could eat right this minute!)
ELT is an Emergency Locator Transmitter, and was the alarm you heard from Tower, never a good thing to hear but could have been a false alarm.
@@chrisschack9716 Certainly hope it was a false alarm.
@@liesdamnlies3372 or a student pilot smashing a landing
Probably an aircraft on the ground doing a pre-flight check?
And BLT is bacon locator transmitter. :)
what was the alarm?
an ELT
Probably a ELT being tested in the airport in a pre-flight check
ELT stands for what?
Emergency Locator Transmitter, it goes off when a plane crashes so other aircrafts can pick up the signal and locate the crash site. It gets stronger the closer you get to the source, that is the reason why the Capt said they were “picking up a strong ELT signal”.
First officer or PIC probably should have stated the nature of the issue before being queried about it (by ATC). Kinda sloppy on the comms.
Not necessarily
Or they were busy with the "aviate, navigate" part
Try this.
Say “we might have a flap issue”.
Took me about 1.5 seconds with a southern drawl.
Set the table with facts instead of having the controller sit around with his thumb up his ass wondering what’s going on.
@@bobcrone6151 everyone’s an expert
@@st8ks967 Bob Crone is an expert....
VICTOR,ALPHA,SIERRA CHECK YOUR INSTAGRAM AND EMAIL INBOX FOR THIS EMAIL NAME
That Mexican guy has dubious radio skills. Good thing a white American man was there to save the day.