I did all my training in the Hughes 269/300 and had chance to do a few hours on the Enstrom and r22 but just stayed on the 300. Very forgiving aircraft always felt safe and comfortable in it and it had the 3 seats
@@PilotTeacher After getting my ppl on 40 hrs I converted onto the Robinson r44 which has loads more power and unlike the 22 doesn't just drop like a stone on lowering the collective but the the rotor blades are much bigger than the 300's and was surprised how docile it seems in auto's. The 500 was a much nicer craft and even better is the 600 notar. Going back to my ppl, I was very fortunate to master the hover in the first couple of hours where I found it easier to just let the craft wonder and put little inputs in to correct it and slow it down and not have to rush. I still had to have a death grip on the controls but it didn't take long to master and sit back and relax. I was doing my solo cross country on 10 hours and when I came back to the airport on completion, I was approached by someone from a big helicopter company that said he was impressed with my flying and when I had finished my ppl training to go to him and he would continue with my training and then fly for him.
I learnt everything that had to be learnt with a 269 A (hand clutch) and a 300 C, until I got my CFI test. A stint with Bell 47's and Jet Ranger's failed to convince me. I wish I had flown the 500. Now with retina and cataract issues, those days are over.
@@PilotTeacher I know what you mean, ground speed dropped a lot when flying into a headwind, unlike the 500 that pushed through everything including a snowstorm that just appeared from nowhere and happily we flew through it in a very short time. Didn't want to turn back but just kept straight and level knowing exactly what was in front of us. Interestingly, we were sat at the landing strip and another friend flew in in his Rotorway exec and had just flown through a rain shower and was amazed at how the rain had stripped his rotors back to metal
Actually the Cabri G2 has auto carb heating, so another worry less. I just love the small cutie. Highly recommended. However, the correlator sucks, so governor off is a little less comfortable than e.g. in the R44 where you hardly notice. And the hand throttle really isn't meant to be used. But forget all that. Very safe, fully articulated 3 blade, heavy blades with tons of energy in the rotor system. You have all the time in the world to enter an auto and hardly ever need to watch RPM in either direction. Much safer than the Robinsons in every aspect. Especially regarding low g push overs, no problem in the Cabri at all.
I personally won’t get into a Robinson again due to the safety issues. I also wasn’t a fan of the t-bar cyclic. But I learned decades ago in the Hughes 300, so I’m partly biased. I got to do sling load, mountain flying, etc. much more versatile, and in my view safer helicopter. Agree on the headwind. I’ve gone backwards a few times lol.
Haha! Every helicopter has its pros and cons and having flown both and understand you points. Like any machine, if you fly it within its design envelope your good. Nudge towards that envelope then all bets can be off in a heartbeat!
What about with a bucket slung and two up with a strong head wind the 300 its struggling but way safer than a 22 in turbulence, I would never strap my but into a R22. Want a Robbie R22 buy 20 acres and wait !
The R22 is still the best ab initio trainer, because it is so unstable. If you can fly a R22, you can fly every other helicopter with relative ease. The small, low-inertia rotor makes for very rapid RPM decay, so you have to be very, very aware. Having trained at altitude (5500ft AMSL) in hot South African summers, things were even more demanding. But it gives a very solid respect for the limitations that might otherwise not be appreciated.
Hi man I'll also be training in South Africa with one of these Helicopter training center (PE) Star light aviation group( Mossel Bay and Durban) which school did you go to?
@@aviansnow make sure you get some training inland too, at higher elevations. Learn to understand and resped limited power. Flying at the coast is very easy in comparison. Johannesburg’s flying schools will give you that. Henley Air at Rand Airport is tops
@@rockspyder3970 hello sir, i am in south africa.. between Johannesburg fliying school and Henley Air which one do you suggest for Helicopter training ... also let me if there is better option.. Thank you
Plenty of G2s in my area, but my first flight was in a 300 and that's the type I would own. Would be perfect on a big farm or ranch. I have also flown in the R44 and it was indeed roomy, but I am not a Robinson fan.
I learned to fly on a U.S. Army TH-55A, same thing as a Schweitzer 269. I loved it! My flight-school buddies and I always talked about buying one after our Army aviation careers were over. Just to fly for fun, though. It's so slow that you really can't go anywhere in it. The only thing that I had trouble with was "George," the throttle-correlation device. If I were starting from scratch, I would not want to learn to fly on a Robinson, with its T-bar cyclic control.
Enstroms are by far the best and the safest. I got my rating in a Robinson, but I will not fly one of those death-machines any more. Good point about training in a piston helicopter. I have an Enstrom 280FX and an EC120B. I'm planning to get my commercial rating in my Enstrom, so I don't beat up my EC120 with all those full-down autorotations.
The problem with Enstroms is you cannot find them anywhere. Even after flying for 20 years in 3 different counties I’ve only ever seen an Enstrom twice.
I spent over 2,000 hours in X-Plane flying an R22 before going for my first flight. I was able to hover on my very first attempt. The owner of the company was dumbfounded as was my flight instructor. I'm just saying it is possible. However I do not recommend anyone try this on their own, I had an instructor.
With today’s sims and VR… more and more people are going to be able to train themselves…. I can already see a future news story… “ A citizen with nothing but Sim practice lands a Boeing 737 after both pilots become ill from food poisoning; this is why both pilot and co-pilot must eat different meals FAA says.”
This is my exact plan makes it easier and cheaper when you can’t fly two to three times per week due to weather or just scheduling and it’s going to make you a better stick
Trained in three of the four discussed and really thought the three blade option is very stable. All were fun and will never forget the experience. Thanks for the video.
The R22 is popular for schools because it’s cheap compared to other helicopters. The R22 has a special FAR. This is kind of a problem with the manufacturer. Every other manufacturer of helicopters made safety modifications to their designs and upgraded the design. Look at the Bell 47, it went through several design changes. So did the Hiller. And the Schweitzer, etc. Robinson not only didn’t make any substantial safety changes in their helicopters but unlike every other helicopter manufacturer didn’t change the design for their larger helicopters. Instead of creating a new safer design the Mc Donalded the helicopter, they just supersized it. Supersizing the same problems of the R22. They were not designed as a training helicopter but as a personal helicopter. The Schweitzer was used by the United States Army as their primary training helicopter for decades. It trained the best helicopter pilots in the world. I learned in the Bell 47. Another great helicopter also used by the Army to train pilots before they switched to the Schweitzer. It’s also my personal favorite. I would also go for the G2, from what I have seen of it I would love to fly it. I have no plans to ever fly a Robby. Any flying I will be doing will be in one of the other three. Or when I move into turbine helicopters. It will most likely be in a Bell Jetranger series. MD 500 series, Eurocopter series. If you like the Robbies fine, go for it.
I've been leaning toward the Cabri. I'm in Los Angeles, with 5 Class D (although we're in the Bravo veil of LAX) airports all around me - hopefully I can find a school in there somewhere.
Forgot to mention bell 47, gutless pig, excellent machine to learn on. always going in fully loaded into confined spaces gives you real world expectations once you fly for money... at least in Canada
2000fpm is only like 22mph. Givin the skids and whatnot it wouldn't take a great deal to make the seat reduce to a relatively safe impact. Think about people getting T boned at 25mph in a little car. It's a hit yeah but most the injuries are because of the lateral impact.
@@whiskeybravo11 ruclips.net/video/7CWYv4WKLWA/видео.html check 5:13 of the video besides touching down at 2000fpm is pretty much gonna end in an incident report or by miracle if it ain't an accident. And getting T-boned is tremendously different from landing 22mph on your spine...thus BRACE BRACE call in airlines before impact
That house at 18:55 is about an hour from my house in Airlie Beach, Queensland Australia 👌🏻 the whitsundays are amazing and I’ll be learning to fly there next year
Rick, Robinson Helicopters redesigned the R44 Raven II, and repurposed it as an R44 CADET, which can be used as an option to for helicopter training, instead of utilizing the R44 Raven II.
Alot of entry level jobs fly R44's and they probably can't insure you if ya only got 10hrs in a 44 and 100+hrs in an 22. But on the flip side all my training is in a R44 and that prevents me from being an instructor in a R22.
@@PilotTeacher I hear ya there. But the cost to to have 50hrs in the 44 when done with cfi might be worth it depending on what you do after. If you got 200hrs in only a 22 you're limited to basically only instruct at the schools that have them. You're ruling out tours and schools at high elevation that fly the 44. I certainly wouldn't want to buy that time after I finish training just to get a job.
@@whiskeybravo11 exactly! Every stufent needs to look at the options available to them after tgey complete training. If an R22 will suffice then great, if R44 time is needed then do some training in the R44, if turbine time is needed then jump into a Jetbox. For most students though training in the R22 will be plenty to take that stepping stone. I know more pilots that trained solely on an R22 and had no issue moving onto bigger machines than students who had to do time in an R44. If you are willing to anywhere after training an R44 is not required in my opinion, it just adds cost for very little benefit.
@@PilotTeacher luckily for me the cost is covered either way. And this school only has 44’s due to elevation. But I agree that all 22 time is always a bad thing. If there was 22's here I would try to get 50hrs logged to open more opportunities after cfii.
I would go for the sweizer due to cyclic being conventional, I absolutely hate the R22 and it’s quirky cyclic, and it’s ugly as well. The cost of the training and maintaining of the hours to keep current would be impossible for me
Nice one Rick 👍 Question for you re kit helicopters: given they are cheaper than a typical certified model, are they ever used commercially eg crop-spraying, anti-frost flights etc? Keep up the good work 😉
To be honest I have never seen a kit helicopter in any commercial operation. Generally kits are small helicopters to help keep the cost down and because of that they cannot lift much more than the pilot and or passenger with the fuel load. Any extra gear like spray gear and pesticide would prohibit the helicopter lifting off because it weighs too much. As for crop protection, again because they weigh so little the amount of rotorwash they create is very small and would not move much air when trying to protect the crops. If anyone has ever seen a kit helicopter being used in a commercial operation please let me know in the comments.
They are just so severely underpowered, and can hardly lift the skin off a custard pudding. The skids hardly break ground at sea level, let alone at altitude inland.
MD-500 is the best helicopter to train in,handles extremely well and has loads of power compared to weight..There is a reason why special forces use it as well as maintaining power lines etc..Wouldnt be caught dead in a robinson 22 or 44.And im confused as to the prices theyy are trying to charge people today to learn how to fly.Back when i was learning it was $45 an hour w/instructor for flight time and $35 for ground school,how do they justify the increase these days?
One valid point I’ve seen brought up on training ships. For students that want to be professional pilots, 99% of your first jobs will be in a Robinson! Before you can instruct in a Robinson you have to have 200 hours in one. So it seems logical to get your first 100 hours training and getting all your ratings in one.
Not necessarily. Although the Robinsons are popular the student will need to look at what likely options there are for them when getting their first job after school. If there are no Robinsons around them they need to look at another airframe. My advice is to look at what job you are most likely going to get and then do all your training in that helicopter. I know pilots who have come out of flight school and gone straight into a JetRanger or Astar so any training ship worked then!
Your content is great and I wish you had 10 times the number of subs! 🙂 Maybe just maybe a couple of heli lessons might be in the budget in the next year or two for me... !
I'm surprised that you didn't include the Enstrom F-28 series in your presentation! The aircraft has an outstanding safety record. The cabin is wide and comfortable. The high inertia, 3 bladed main rotor system feels stable and is easy to autorotate. As well, the unique, fully exposed tail rotor has excellent control authority at any wind azimuth. Although I eventually learned in a 300C, it was my first helicopter ride, in a F-28, that got me hooked. This should be a serious contender for anyone considering helicopter flight lessons.
Hi Touleau. Thanks for the recommendation of the F-28. It sounds like a great helicopter. The reason why it never made it onto the list is that in 20 years of flying I have never seen one with my own eyes let alone seen one being used for training. I wanted to keep the video to just the most common helicopters used for training.
As a trainer, the F-28 is deceptively easy, and the high-inertia rotor makes for exceptional (and all too forgiving) stability. That is maybe not quite the best properties in a trainer?
@@rockspyder3970 Student pilots have enough to deal with as they develop their airmanship skills. I say, get your initial training in something that's easy to comprehend. Stuck pedals, auto's, confined areas, sloped landings, ground resonance...it's a lot to absorb in any training curriculum, and nothing is "too forgiving" in rotory -wing aviation! Cheers
@@llwellyn1 maybe, but I have seen students struggle on low-inertia teetering 2-bladers after they had the luxury of an Enstrom’s ever-spinning, rock-solid 3-blader. A very nice machine to fly for personal use, but mediocre for high-standard training. I could compare it to some learning to drive a manual-transmission car, then automatic, vs the other way round. Do the difficult, demanding stuff early on. It just makes for a more solid foundation.
Hey brother, the helicopter school near me has an Aerokopter AK1-3, it's comparable to an R22, but I'm worried that it doesn't have the same weight behind the name. Any thoughts on this? They do also have an R44 for getting rated in it if I want.
Heicopters are helicopters and they all use the same two hands and two feet to control. Train in the AK then do an R44 addon IF required for a job afterwards. If you can handle a lively chopper in the wind, heat and altitude then to me it doesn’t matter what machine you trained in.
Cabri g2 would be the one for me. The R22 was not built as a trainer and thats according to Frank Robinson. The Cabri was built as a trainer, 3 blade rotor head (no mast bumping), auto carb heat control, better crash protection etc. The Enstrom is a very safe choice if you can find one, The R44 is used as the R22 isn't really suitable and is too expensive for training.
Right on! I totally agree. I have a 1000 hours teaching in a Robbie and you have to respect it. The Cabri and S300 are much more suited to a training role.
thanks again, good information, in the world where I could do this and wish to seek employment we can fly but having an instrument rating would be an advantage maybe even required, I'm not sure why this isn't included I think most new pilot's would understand all the gauge's what they mean and even how to use them in a zero visibility but it's not included to fly rotary or fixed wing, how much more would this cost I have learnt some much from you, I really would love to fly helicopter's, Mikey d
Hey Mikey, Basic Instrument flying is taught in all pilot certificates to help pilots recover from an unusual attitude and to try and help them make a 180 degree turn to exit any poor weather they have flown into. However most do not keep up the practice and no longer have the basic skill if they ever needed it. Instrument flying is a difficult skill to master and fly safely and needs constant practice to stay proficient! Some jobs require an instrument rating before applying so it all depends on the type of hob the pilot wishes to fly. A typical Instrument rating for a helicopter will cost you around $15-20K. This might help: Https://pilotteacher.com/becoming-a-helicopter-pilot-the-complete-cost-breakdown/
Flight instructor / Part 135 charter pilot here. I did my first introduction/Discovery flight in the R44. Then 100 hours Cabri G2. Then Instrument rating and CFI in R22. First job R44 tours. Then worked as G2 instructor. Only for a bit. Two more R44 tour jobs before moving on to turbine Long Ranger and 407s... Fact is.... If you're going The civilian route, Robbie Time is your best bet. I had very Little 44 hours and was lucky i was hired at a seasonal tour job. Get around 15-25, have some fun in it (commercial better than IFR on 44). R22 is cheapest and dangerous in the wrong hands, always respect it don't be a cowboy. It can kill you. But beautiful machine and good training challenging to Master!
The CEO of my old company offered to pay for my PPL because he said it improves your leadership and decision making skills. The condition was that it had to be in his AStar. Unfortunately he was ousted from the company before I was able to do it.
Another good one Rick! I was vary lucky got my commercial rotorcraft add on threw a company I was flying fixed wing for. All my training was in a 44raven ll Completed in the FAA min hrs. the kicker was after I had my ticket, insurance company wouldn’t cover me. We worked through it and everything worked out. I wished I had started flying Helicoppters long ago. 🚁😎
This is interesting that the official rating for R22 is 240. I am under this 240 limit but the only training location near me says the limit for an R22 is 200. Im a little bit above 200 so they say my only option is an R44. Should i bring up the official rating of an R22? I'm not sure if something has changed and it is now 200 limit or if they lessened it to try and push more people into an R44 because it is more expensive. Or some other reason im unaware of. I'm not sure what the best course of action would be, i'd love some insight! Thank you so much for your content
This sounds like a typical BS answer from a shady flight school to get you to part with more cash! Here is what I would do: Ask them the exact reason why they say it is 200lbs. Then tell them it is 240lbs and see what they say. I've never heard of ANY school pushing a 200lb limit. Here is the latst R22 Flight Manual off Robinson's website - Go to page 2-3 and see under Weight Limits: robinsonheli.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/r22_poh_2.pdf The 240lbs includes any baggage under the seat. If you have non, then you can weigh up to 240lbs legally. You can then show them this directly from the Robinson site and again see what they say. If they push the R44 - Take your money elsewhere. If I were you I would stay away from that school. If this is what they do to you BEFORE they have your cash, imagine the BS they will feed you once you have started training! Hope this helps.
The basic empty weight of an R22 is 880 pounds. The max gross weight is 1370 pounds. So the useful load is 490 pounds at max gross weight. I weigh 230 ready-to-fly (dressed). That leaves 260 pounds. My favorite instructor weighs 200 pounds ready-to-fly. That leaves 60 pounds for fuel. At 6 pounds per gallon, that is 10 gallons. The R22 burns around 10 gallons per hour. If your ready-to-fly weight is 30 pounds less than me, you can take five more gallons with a similar instructor. 15 gallons might be fine for a local lesson, but not for a dual cross country. There you might need an additional 10 gallons so your instructor would need a ready-to-fly weight of 140 pounds. The training facility may not have instructors available who weigh only 140 pounds ready to fly. Not to mention taking off at max gross weigh is not forgiving. You have to be very mindful of temperature and pressure to make sure you have enough power. I am a commercial pilot. Many of my friends learned on the R22 and loved it. I got my private in the G2 and loved it. I got my commercial rating in the R44 and love it. The R22 is a viable option for you only if you can find a slim instructor. I don't think the training facility was doing anything wrong in steering you toward the R44. It was likely just a reflection of the size of their helicopter instructors. I did not have any weight issues for my long dual cross country in the G2. I have a bunch of G2 and R44 videos posted on my channel. The most I've flown with in the R44 is three people (in the Winter) and I was a little shy of max gross. Best of luck to you!
@@PilotTeacher Thank you very much. I have started my training with them as unfortunately there is no other location near me for many hours, but they stated that getting close to that 240 is rough on the aircraft so they try to keep it lower as to not strain it more. Nonetheless thank you very much for the reply and for your videos! They help a ton, have given me much needed direction and I'm sure I will continue to refer to them for years to come. I look forward to your future videos! You do great work Thanks again
It may. For example if a tour operator flies R44’ and you did all your training on an R44 and the other pilot being interviewed for the job did all their training on the Cabri the job may be given to you.
You make no mention of Helicopter Flight Schools that have a helicopter flight simulator. I have 15 hours learning on an R22, n yes, it's true, it's a very twitchy bird. I had to quit that school because they were not consistent in their training. I had "4 instructors" in 12 hours of training??? I was supposed to have a "primary instructor". I never felt I did. I transferred to another flight school n they also have a Flyit Helicopter Flight Simulator which you can practice your hovering at half the cost of going up in a real helicopter n have no worries of having a dynamic rollover. To make a long story short, it helps tremendously to practice in a simulator, and it counts as ground school. The helicopter I'm learning to fly in now is a Bell 47G, a six cylinder carbureted model. I love that bird! They also have two R44's, a turbine n a piston model. I will probably learn to fly them too! So, look for a school with a simulator. You can learn to hover, hover taxi, landing n takeoffs and ground operations in it at half the cost, before you get into the real aircraft saving you a good amount of money. One more thing, it doesn't hurt to lose weight n get in shape. If you are over 250lbs you may need a Huey to train on!!
Hey Dan, I make no mention as you can only use a helicopter simulator for a maximum of 10 hours to be credited towards the FAA certificate. Yes, they can be cheaper and yes, you can fly more in them, it just wont be credited. You are better to do a few hours in them and then move into the real aircraft. Sims do provide a good basis for starting but they don't give you the 'Feel' or the response delay like the real aircraft. I know 20,000 hour pilots who can't hover a sim as they handle so differently. I have hundreds of hours in sims from basic Frasca and Fly-it's, to the full-motion level D AW139 and SK76 sims and none of them handle the same as the aircraft, although the $30M full motion sims are pretty darn close! The Bell 47 is a pretty stable machine form what I remember. Did about 10 hours in one over 20 years ago, I just remember it was as slow as molasses, especially with a headwind. Rare to find them now. As for the weight, It is only the R22 that has the 250lb weight limit, but if that all that is available you will want to get losing some pounds if you can! 4 instructors in 12 hours is horrible! That is nothing but a money factory by the sounds of it! This is one of the things I tell you to look for when selecting a school in my course. I highly recommend you check it out at pilotteacher.com and see so many of the other things you need to do before heading to and while at flight school!
@@PilotTeacher True! Many things you talk about are right on point. However, if one is having difficulty learning to hover, a simulator will help. The cyclic is the most touchy n sensitive control of the helicopter. While only 10hrs count, it doesn't stop one from still practicing on a simulator to gain more proficiency in hovering. Even if the hours don't count, continued practice on a simulator does help, and it's half the cost of training in a real aircraft. Think of it as paying for extra training n practice. Like paying for a gym to go workout. And yes, you are right about the Bell 47 being slow as molasses, but in all truth, helicopters are not fast aircraft to start with. They're redeeming value is that they hover, ie, sling loads, search n rescue, etc. Not needing a runway to land. If you wanna fly faster, get in a fixed wing airplane. There is nothing more enjoyable than a leisurely helicopter ride around the country side. Try doing that, at warp drive!!! You get my drift. Huey's were also not super fast aircraft, but they excelled n even surpassed at what they were designed to do. Clear Blue n 22 Stay safe
@@Pork-Chopper oh for sure sims are a great training tool. I even recommend a home setup in my course. I too much prefer the lower flight cruising of the helicopter. Im usually 500ft when cruising around outside of populated areas as you get to see everything. The only time I wish it was faster is on long ferry flights with no automation! I sure miss that flight director and AFCS then!!
Hi Evan. To be honest this is a question I’ve never heard or even thought about. This might be worth a call to your local FSDO office and ask them to see what they say.
From: www.ecfr.gov/on/2018-07-27/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-A/section-61.51 Aircraft requirements for logging flight time. For a person to log flight time, the time must be acquired in an aircraft that is identified as an aircraft under § 61.5(b), and is - (1) An aircraft of U.S. registry with either a standard or special airworthiness certificate; (2) An aircraft of foreign registry with an airworthiness certificate that is approved by the aviation authority of a foreign country that is a Member State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation Organization; (3) A military aircraft under the direct operational control of the U.S. Armed Forces; or (4) A public aircraft under the direct operational control of a Federal, State, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, if the flight time was acquired by the pilot while engaged on an official law enforcement flight for a Federal, State, County, or Municipal law enforcement agency.
I have around 10 hours in a Bell 47 and all i remember was it was as slow as molasses hahaha. Trying to het anywhere with a headwind was worse than the 300cbi. Trying to find one to train in is tough too for most people.
@@PilotTeacher I'm just starting out. 3 hours in. It is hard but maybe that'll help me in the long run. It's been bumped up to around 300hp so maybe that'll help? Regardless thanks for everything you do. You have become an essential part of my training and inspiration!
@@a1investigations433 oh fun!! I still remember my first few hours!! Rollercoaster is an understatement! Im glad I can help! Be sure to check out Helicopters category of blog posts on PilotTeacher.com/blog to hell you further!
it goes 60 MPH it's pretty easy to tell how far you've gone in that time and yes you do have to calculate headwind lol. true training with wooden blades@@PilotTeacher
What I loved about the bill 47 is that you could look and see everything on the helicopter by looking up and around period a big bubble you could see everything
I know flying is not for everyone, some people just dont have the coordination to do it. The question is, will every fixed wing pilot have the capacity to convert to flying helicopters.
I see no reason why not. It is all just practice like learning to ride a bike or driving a car. It will take some people longer but I’ve never met a student who can’t get the hang of it. Their mentality and decision making, well thats a whole other story!
The best trainer by ANY standard is the Hughes 269/300. Thats just a fact, in my opinion. I wouldn't touch a R22/44 with a 50 foot pole for training, no way!!! Mr Frank Robinson said himself, many, many times, the R22 is NOT a trainer, nor was it ever designed to be a trainer, period!!! That's just the facts!!!
Any helicopter can be used to train in. Yes some are more forgiving but like any helicopter, fly it outside of its limitations and it will bite you. Having instructed in both the 269 and the R22 they are both great machines.
@@PilotTeacher Foot is to the floor just in a pick up because the tail is so weak, cyclic is incredibly stiff to the point of almost needing hydraulics, throttle governor is terrifying on start up and even more so in auto recoveries, the body is sitting on top of the skids so hover autos make you feel like you'll slide right out, it has a very nose low attitude in cruise flight, the start up is almost 6 minutes, doors off flying makes an unbearable buffeting noise, and it's unnecessarily more expensive than an R22. But large cowels make for an easy preflight 😅
the fact that the f22/44 has a disability (!) cyclic should tell you everything you need to know. out of those the H269 is by far the best as it’s a proper helicopter, it’s got substance. the Cabri is a great little thing but has no weight, and nothing to draw you in to it’s world. yes the Enstrom 28/280 is fabulous but niche-y. The Bell 47 ha, welcome to helicopter heaven, but it’ll make a man of you, a real enthusiast and a devoted pilot for life. all the light ones might turn you gay. I started on the Brantly 2B. don’t go there. no power, zero disc inertia, and the 2 piece blades are frighteningly close to one head.
Brantly 2B thats a blast from the past! Doesn’t that have wooden blades too? I don’t think there will ever be a perfect training helicopter. If they do create one it will be too expensive for the masses!
Haha I’d forgotten that bit!! Ayez indeed wood they were! the Bell 47 has it all, visibility, balance, lots of power, authority in every stage of flight, boosted controls, loads of disc inertia. Learn to fly that you become a King of the air, walking tall in any company, so much pioneering history since 1947 every helicopter EVER made has to kneel in its presence. a total dreamboat
@@CasinoSquareCafe until you get a headwind! I remember trying to do a cross-country flight in a B47 and we gave up and returned to the hanger! Slow at the best of times, painful with a headwind!
@@PilotTeacher yes that’s true enough, I was never much higher than 20ft agl so never really encountered the problem. I’ve been spoilt by slowness when I flew a S55 on floats (!!) offshore in the North Sea, max cruise 70mph with regular 90kt winds! spent a few absolutely hellish freezing cold nights out in the Scottish glens huddled in the back of it because of such conditions. it tri fitted with a RR gnome turbine but had manual thrno throttle correlation at allow, that was fun too
Hey Josh, its purely vocabulary. Many pilots switch between saying certificate and licence, especially those who have flown in many countries. They are both the same thing. Some countries call it a pilot certificate, and others a pilot license.
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I did all my training in the Hughes 269/300 and had chance to do a few hours on the Enstrom and r22 but just stayed on the 300. Very forgiving aircraft always felt safe and comfortable in it and it had the 3 seats
Hey Barry. Yes the 300 is a stable old girl just never hope you get a headwind!
@@PilotTeacher After getting my ppl on 40 hrs I converted onto the Robinson r44 which has loads more power and unlike the 22 doesn't just drop like a stone on lowering the collective but the the rotor blades are much bigger than the 300's and was surprised how docile it seems in auto's. The 500 was a much nicer craft and even better is the 600 notar. Going back to my ppl, I was very fortunate to master the hover in the first couple of hours where I found it easier to just let the craft wonder and put little inputs in to correct it and slow it down and not have to rush. I still had to have a death grip on the controls but it didn't take long to master and sit back and relax. I was doing my solo cross country on 10 hours and when I came back to the airport on completion, I was approached by someone from a big helicopter company that said he was impressed with my flying and when I had finished my ppl training to go to him and he would continue with my training and then fly for him.
I learnt everything that had to be learnt with a 269 A (hand clutch) and a 300 C, until I got my CFI test. A stint with Bell 47's and Jet Ranger's failed to convince me. I wish I had flown the 500.
Now with retina and cataract issues, those days are over.
@@PilotTeacher I know what you mean, ground speed dropped a lot when flying into a headwind, unlike the 500 that pushed through everything including a snowstorm that just appeared from nowhere and happily we flew through it in a very short time. Didn't want to turn back but just kept straight and level knowing exactly what was in front of us. Interestingly, we were sat at the landing strip and another friend flew in in his Rotorway exec and had just flown through a rain shower and was amazed at how the rain had stripped his rotors back to metal
Actually the Cabri G2 has auto carb heating, so another worry less. I just love the small cutie. Highly recommended. However, the correlator sucks, so governor off is a little less comfortable than e.g. in the R44 where you hardly notice. And the hand throttle really isn't meant to be used. But forget all that. Very safe, fully articulated 3 blade, heavy blades with tons of energy in the rotor system. You have all the time in the world to enter an auto and hardly ever need to watch RPM in either direction. Much safer than the Robinsons in every aspect. Especially regarding low g push overs, no problem in the Cabri at all.
I personally won’t get into a Robinson again due to the safety issues. I also wasn’t a fan of the t-bar cyclic.
But I learned decades ago in the Hughes 300, so I’m partly biased. I got to do sling load, mountain flying, etc. much more versatile, and in my view safer helicopter.
Agree on the headwind. I’ve gone backwards a few times lol.
Haha! Every helicopter has its pros and cons and having flown both and understand you points.
Like any machine, if you fly it within its design envelope your good. Nudge towards that envelope then all bets can be off in a heartbeat!
What about with a bucket slung and two up with a strong head wind the 300 its struggling but way safer than a 22 in turbulence, I would never strap my but into a R22. Want a Robbie R22 buy 20 acres and wait !
The R22 is still the best ab initio trainer, because it is so unstable. If you can fly a R22, you can fly every other helicopter with relative ease. The small, low-inertia rotor makes for very rapid RPM decay, so you have to be very, very aware. Having trained at altitude (5500ft AMSL) in hot South African summers, things were even more demanding. But it gives a very solid respect for the limitations that might otherwise not be appreciated.
I agree. Having to respect a helicopter and how quickly it can bite gives you a good fundamental foundation on which to build.
Hi man I'll also be training in South Africa with one of these
Helicopter training center (PE)
Star light aviation group( Mossel Bay and Durban)
which school did you go to?
@@aviansnow make sure you get some training inland too, at higher elevations. Learn to understand and resped limited power. Flying at the coast is very easy in comparison. Johannesburg’s flying schools will give you that. Henley Air at Rand Airport is tops
@@rockspyder3970 hello sir, i am in south africa.. between Johannesburg fliying school and Henley Air which one do you suggest for Helicopter training ... also let me if there is better option.. Thank you
@@WilhelmBoshoff Henley Air is tops!
Got my rating in a Guimbal Cabri G 2. Loved it. Some quirks but overall I give it an A.
Plenty of G2s in my area, but my first flight was in a 300 and that's the type I would own. Would be perfect on a big farm or ranch. I have also flown in the R44 and it was indeed roomy, but I am not a Robinson fan.
They all have their pros and cons but finding the one that suits each person is pretty easy nowadays.
I learned to fly on a U.S. Army TH-55A, same thing as a Schweitzer 269. I loved it! My flight-school buddies and I always talked about buying one after our Army aviation careers were over. Just to fly for fun, though. It's so slow that you really can't go anywhere in it. The only thing that I had trouble with was "George," the throttle-correlation device. If I were starting from scratch, I would not want to learn to fly on a Robinson, with its T-bar cyclic control.
Enstroms are by far the best and the safest. I got my rating in a Robinson, but I will not fly one of those death-machines any more. Good point about training in a piston helicopter. I have an Enstrom 280FX and an EC120B. I'm planning to get my commercial rating in my Enstrom, so I don't beat up my EC120 with all those full-down autorotations.
The problem with Enstroms is you cannot find them anywhere. Even after flying for 20 years in 3 different counties I’ve only ever seen an Enstrom twice.
Sweet. My flight school of choice has the Cabri G2. It was awesome to fly. Thanks for sharing mate
You’re welcome!
I spent over 2,000 hours in X-Plane flying an R22 before going for my first flight. I was able to hover on my very first attempt. The owner of the company was dumbfounded as was my flight instructor. I'm just saying it is possible. However I do not recommend anyone try this on their own, I had an instructor.
It’s how training is gonna be done in the future. The cost benefits are impossible to ignore.
It’s insane that you love the R-22 enough to fly that many hours in it in a sim. Couldn’t be me, I like the variety that flight simming offers.
@@superskullmaster I wanted to fly a real helicopter and that's the one you start in, so...and I did get to fly quite a bit.
With today’s sims and VR… more and more people are going to be able to train themselves…. I can already see a future news story… “ A citizen with nothing but Sim practice lands a Boeing 737 after both pilots become ill from food poisoning; this is why both pilot and co-pilot must eat different meals FAA says.”
This is my exact plan makes it easier and cheaper when you can’t fly two to three times per week due to weather or just scheduling and it’s going to make you a better stick
Trained in three of the four discussed and really thought the three blade option is very stable. All were fun and will never forget the experience. Thanks for the video.
They are all great helicopters!! Glad you enjoyed it!!
@@PilotTeacher I do enjoy your videos, and believe there is a teaching moment when I hear someone discussing rotor craft. Again thanks.
@@brianholt3487 no matter how long you have been flying there is always something to learn or re-remember hahah
fantastic video. I like how pure/simple the R22 is
Hughes 269A & 300. My first turbine was a Bell 206.
A very typical progression route for many pilots!
Awesome video! By the way, the cabri G2 is a really fun heli to fly.
Thanks Peego!! Yes the Cabri is getting very popular because of that very reason!
Cabri G2 sounds like the best option to me.
Bc helicopters has the cabri G2 as a training helicopter
The R22 is popular for schools because it’s cheap compared to other helicopters. The R22 has a special FAR. This is kind of a problem with the manufacturer. Every other manufacturer of helicopters made safety modifications to their designs and upgraded the design. Look at the Bell 47, it went through several design changes. So did the Hiller. And the Schweitzer, etc. Robinson not only didn’t make any substantial safety changes in their helicopters but unlike every other helicopter manufacturer didn’t change the design for their larger helicopters. Instead of creating a new safer design the Mc Donalded the helicopter, they just supersized it. Supersizing the same problems of the R22. They were not designed as a training helicopter but as a personal helicopter.
The Schweitzer was used by the United States Army as their primary training helicopter for decades. It trained the best helicopter pilots in the world. I learned in the Bell 47. Another great helicopter also used by the Army to train pilots before they switched to the Schweitzer. It’s also my personal favorite. I would also go for the G2, from what I have seen of it I would love to fly it. I have no plans to ever fly a Robby. Any flying I will be doing will be in one of the other three. Or when I move into turbine helicopters. It will most likely be in a Bell Jetranger series. MD 500 series, Eurocopter series. If you like the Robbies fine, go for it.
I've been leaning toward the Cabri. I'm in Los Angeles, with 5 Class D (although we're in the Bravo veil of LAX) airports all around me - hopefully I can find a school in there somewhere.
Theres lots of schools around there I’m sure. Finding one with a Cabri might be a little more challenging but thats why we have Google 😃
If you want the Cabri, go to Anthelion Helicopters in Long Beach. I think they are the only ones with one in SoCal.
Forgot to mention bell 47, gutless pig, excellent machine to learn on. always going in fully loaded into confined spaces gives you real world expectations once you fly for money... at least in Canada
Hreat video. G2 UK, Leicester and Leeds are the ones I know of.
I used to fly into Leicester all the time during my PPLH training!
So many good points sir , also Cabri G2 even has like crash worthy seat and can take upto like 2000fpm I’ve heard. Very helpful video thank u so much
Im not sure about the 2000ft/min impact resistance as that sounds terribly high. A very safety conscious design though!
2000fpm is only like 22mph. Givin the skids and whatnot it wouldn't take a great deal to make the seat reduce to a relatively safe impact. Think about people getting T boned at 25mph in a little car. It's a hit yeah but most the injuries are because of the lateral impact.
@@whiskeybravo11 ruclips.net/video/7CWYv4WKLWA/видео.html check 5:13 of the video besides touching down at 2000fpm is pretty much gonna end in an incident report or by miracle if it ain't an accident. And getting T-boned is tremendously different from landing 22mph on your spine...thus BRACE BRACE call in airlines before impact
That house at 18:55 is about an hour from my house in Airlie Beach, Queensland Australia 👌🏻 the whitsundays are amazing and I’ll be learning to fly there next year
Thats cool! Beautiful country out there!!
It was for sale about 5 years ago .they wear asking an Arm and a leg for it $$$$$$. Great fishing and sailing there
Rick, Robinson Helicopters redesigned the R44 Raven II, and repurposed it as an R44 CADET, which can be used as an option to for helicopter training, instead of utilizing the R44 Raven II.
Thats true however you don’t ever see any Cadets around. They are all Raven II with the price tag to match.
That awesome recovery from ground resonance in the S300 looked very impressive. I bet that guy's an amazing instructor these days.
Yes they did well! Good training and knowing what to do i. Situation like that are super important.
@@PilotTeacher you should probably give a shoutout in the video description to credit his awesome work and channel, though. LOL
I sure will! You were certainly lucky to be there at the right time to catch that on video!
@@PilotTeacher thanks boss! I was actually the student pilot in the video at the time, picking up for my first solo! My dad was filming.
@@Stellicopter you did a great job! Kudos to you for keeping you cool and doing the right thing!
I am about to order a Cabri G2 2022
Alot of entry level jobs fly R44's and they probably can't insure you if ya only got 10hrs in a 44 and 100+hrs in an 22.
But on the flip side all my training is in a R44 and that prevents me from being an instructor in a R22.
I know I would rather have the training bill of an R22 to pay off rather than an R44!
@@PilotTeacher I hear ya there. But the cost to to have 50hrs in the 44 when done with cfi might be worth it depending on what you do after.
If you got 200hrs in only a 22 you're limited to basically only instruct at the schools that have them. You're ruling out tours and schools at high elevation that fly the 44.
I certainly wouldn't want to buy that time after I finish training just to get a job.
@@whiskeybravo11 exactly! Every stufent needs to look at the options available to them after tgey complete training. If an R22 will suffice then great, if R44 time is needed then do some training in the R44, if turbine time is needed then jump into a Jetbox. For most students though training in the R22 will be plenty to take that stepping stone.
I know more pilots that trained solely on an R22 and had no issue moving onto bigger machines than students who had to do time in an R44.
If you are willing to anywhere after training an R44 is not required in my opinion, it just adds cost for very little benefit.
@@PilotTeacher luckily for me the cost is covered either way. And this school only has 44’s due to elevation. But I agree that all 22 time is always a bad thing. If there was 22's here I would try to get 50hrs logged to open more opportunities after cfii.
G2 hands down, no money on this earth could get me into a Robinson
I would go for the sweizer due to cyclic being conventional, I absolutely hate the R22 and it’s quirky cyclic, and it’s ugly as well. The cost of the training and maintaining of the hours to keep current would be impossible for me
Nice one Rick 👍
Question for you re kit helicopters: given they are cheaper than a typical certified model, are they ever used commercially eg crop-spraying, anti-frost flights etc?
Keep up the good work 😉
To be honest I have never seen a kit helicopter in any commercial operation. Generally kits are small helicopters to help keep the cost down and because of that they cannot lift much more than the pilot and or passenger with the fuel load. Any extra gear like spray gear and pesticide would prohibit the helicopter lifting off because it weighs too much.
As for crop protection, again because they weigh so little the amount of rotorwash they create is very small and would not move much air when trying to protect the crops.
If anyone has ever seen a kit helicopter being used in a commercial operation please let me know in the comments.
They are just so severely underpowered, and can hardly lift the skin off a custard pudding. The skids hardly break ground at sea level, let alone at altitude inland.
don't worry for the Cabri pronunciation, it's excellent ^^
i approve, as a French lad
Thats good to know!!
Loving your videos can you specify what area you are talking about prices and what dollar usd cad asd
All the costs in my videos are USD. Ill be more clearer in future videos. Thanks for the tip!
MD-500 is the best helicopter to train in,handles extremely well and has loads of power compared to weight..There is a reason why special forces use it as well as maintaining power lines etc..Wouldnt be caught dead in a robinson 22 or 44.And im confused as to the prices theyy are trying to charge people today to learn how to fly.Back when i was learning it was $45 an hour w/instructor for flight time and $35 for ground school,how do they justify the increase these days?
Until you pay the hourly bill for a 500! I wish I could have trained in one but my training would have cost 4x more!
One valid point I’ve seen brought up on training ships. For students that want to be professional pilots, 99% of your first jobs will be in a Robinson! Before you can instruct in a Robinson you have to have 200 hours in one. So it seems logical to get your first 100 hours training and getting all your ratings in one.
Not necessarily. Although the Robinsons are popular the student will need to look at what likely options there are for them when getting their first job after school. If there are no Robinsons around them they need to look at another airframe. My advice is to look at what job you are most likely going to get and then do all your training in that helicopter.
I know pilots who have come out of flight school and gone straight into a JetRanger or Astar so any training ship worked then!
Your content is great and I wish you had 10 times the number of subs! 🙂 Maybe just maybe a couple of heli lessons might be in the budget in the next year or two for me... !
Do it!!! You will not regret it!
I know what you mean about the subs! So much junk out there with millions of subs and views!!
I'm surprised that you didn't include the Enstrom F-28 series in your presentation! The aircraft has an outstanding safety record. The cabin is wide and comfortable. The high inertia, 3 bladed main rotor system feels stable and is easy to autorotate. As well, the unique, fully exposed tail rotor has excellent control authority at any wind azimuth. Although I eventually learned in a 300C, it was my first helicopter ride, in a F-28, that got me hooked. This should be a serious contender for anyone considering helicopter flight lessons.
Hi Touleau.
Thanks for the recommendation of the F-28. It sounds like a great helicopter. The reason why it never made it onto the list is that in 20 years of flying I have never seen one with my own eyes let alone seen one being used for training.
I wanted to keep the video to just the most common helicopters used for training.
@@PilotTeacher Fair enough Pilot Teacher. Thanks for producing this channel. I always look forward to your presentations.
As a trainer, the F-28 is deceptively easy, and the high-inertia rotor makes for exceptional (and all too forgiving) stability. That is maybe not quite the best properties in a trainer?
@@rockspyder3970 Student pilots have enough to deal with as they develop their airmanship skills. I say, get your initial training in something that's easy to comprehend. Stuck pedals, auto's, confined areas, sloped landings, ground resonance...it's a lot to absorb in any training curriculum, and nothing is "too forgiving" in rotory -wing aviation! Cheers
@@llwellyn1 maybe, but I have seen students struggle on low-inertia teetering 2-bladers after they had the luxury of an Enstrom’s ever-spinning, rock-solid 3-blader. A very nice machine to fly for personal use, but mediocre for high-standard training. I could compare it to some learning to drive a manual-transmission car, then automatic, vs the other way round. Do the difficult, demanding stuff early on. It just makes for a more solid foundation.
Hey brother, the helicopter school near me has an Aerokopter AK1-3, it's comparable to an R22, but I'm worried that it doesn't have the same weight behind the name. Any thoughts on this? They do also have an R44 for getting rated in it if I want.
Heicopters are helicopters and they all use the same two hands and two feet to control.
Train in the AK then do an R44 addon IF required for a job afterwards.
If you can handle a lively chopper in the wind, heat and altitude then to me it doesn’t matter what machine you trained in.
AK 1-3 good helicopter
another nice video thanks
You bet
A problem I ran into ware I live in Wisconsin currently my only option is the r44
Yeah thats tough! Maybe look at the cost of doing it full time in another location and adding accommodation and see if works out cheaper.
Maybe the one that is the most reliable?
They are all reliable if they are maintained properly, and they can all be terrible if not!
Cabri g2 would be the one for me. The R22 was not built as a trainer and thats according to Frank Robinson. The Cabri was built as a trainer, 3 blade rotor head (no mast bumping), auto carb heat control, better crash protection etc. The Enstrom is a very safe choice if you can find one, The R44 is used as the R22 isn't really suitable and is too expensive for training.
Right on! I totally agree. I have a 1000 hours teaching in a Robbie and you have to respect it. The Cabri and S300 are much more suited to a training role.
you are hilarious... I didn't need the training course.. but on this video, I laughed so hard, I bought the course anyway...
thanks again, good information, in the world where I could do this and wish to seek employment we can fly but having an instrument rating would be an advantage maybe even required, I'm not sure why this isn't included I think most new pilot's would understand all the gauge's what they mean and even how to use them in a zero visibility but it's not included to fly rotary or fixed wing, how much more would this cost
I have learnt some much from you, I really would love to fly helicopter's, Mikey d
Hey Mikey,
Basic Instrument flying is taught in all pilot certificates to help pilots recover from an unusual attitude and to try and help them make a 180 degree turn to exit any poor weather they have flown into.
However most do not keep up the practice and no longer have the basic skill if they ever needed it.
Instrument flying is a difficult skill to master and fly safely and needs constant practice to stay proficient!
Some jobs require an instrument rating before applying so it all depends on the type of hob the pilot wishes to fly.
A typical Instrument rating for a helicopter will cost you around $15-20K.
This might help:
Https://pilotteacher.com/becoming-a-helicopter-pilot-the-complete-cost-breakdown/
Flight instructor / Part 135 charter pilot here. I did my first introduction/Discovery flight in the R44. Then 100 hours Cabri G2. Then Instrument rating and CFI in R22. First job R44 tours. Then worked as G2 instructor. Only for a bit. Two more R44 tour jobs before moving on to turbine Long Ranger and 407s... Fact is.... If you're going The civilian route, Robbie Time is your best bet. I had very Little 44 hours and was lucky i was hired at a seasonal tour job. Get around 15-25, have some fun in it (commercial better than IFR on 44). R22 is cheapest and dangerous in the wrong hands, always respect it don't be a cowboy. It can kill you. But beautiful machine and good training challenging to Master!
And there you have it folks! Any helicopter can be a great machine to learn to fly in!
The CEO of my old company offered to pay for my PPL because he said it improves your leadership and decision making skills. The condition was that it had to be in his AStar. Unfortunately he was ousted from the company before I was able to do it.
Great stuff!
Thanks Quinn! Glad you enjoyed it.
Do they use turbine helicopters to train?
If you have the money you can learn on anything!
Most company training is done using company turbine helicopters for annual pilot recurrent training.
I'm slightly confused here- is the r-44 essentially the r-22 but bigger?
Yup and a higher hourly cost - R22 = 2 seats and the R44 = 4 seats.
@@PilotTeacher ok, makes sense now. Thanks for clarifying!
Another good one Rick! I was vary lucky got my commercial rotorcraft add on threw a company I was flying fixed wing for. All my training was in a 44raven ll
Completed in the FAA min hrs. the kicker was after I had my ticket, insurance company wouldn’t cover me. We worked through it and everything worked out. I wished I had started flying Helicoppters long ago. 🚁😎
Thats awesome when someone else covers the tab!! Better late than never Mike!!
Great insight!
Im glad you liked it!
The bast is cabri guimbla g2 helicopter the best for trainning pilot helicopter
Very interesting!
This is interesting that the official rating for R22 is 240. I am under this 240 limit but the only training location near me says the limit for an R22 is 200. Im a little bit above 200 so they say my only option is an R44.
Should i bring up the official rating of an R22? I'm not sure if something has changed and it is now 200 limit or if they lessened it to try and push more people into an R44 because it is more expensive. Or some other reason im unaware of. I'm not sure what the best course of action would be, i'd love some insight! Thank you so much for your content
This sounds like a typical BS answer from a shady flight school to get you to part with more cash!
Here is what I would do: Ask them the exact reason why they say it is 200lbs. Then tell them it is 240lbs and see what they say. I've never heard of ANY school pushing a 200lb limit.
Here is the latst R22 Flight Manual off Robinson's website - Go to page 2-3 and see under Weight Limits:
robinsonheli.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/01/r22_poh_2.pdf
The 240lbs includes any baggage under the seat. If you have non, then you can weigh up to 240lbs legally.
You can then show them this directly from the Robinson site and again see what they say. If they push the R44 - Take your money elsewhere.
If I were you I would stay away from that school. If this is what they do to you BEFORE they have your cash, imagine the BS they will feed you once you have started training!
Hope this helps.
The basic empty weight of an R22 is 880 pounds. The max gross weight is 1370 pounds. So the useful load is 490 pounds at max gross weight. I weigh 230 ready-to-fly (dressed). That leaves 260 pounds. My favorite instructor weighs 200 pounds ready-to-fly. That leaves 60 pounds for fuel. At 6 pounds per gallon, that is 10 gallons. The R22 burns around 10 gallons per hour. If your ready-to-fly weight is 30 pounds less than me, you can take five more gallons with a similar instructor. 15 gallons might be fine for a local lesson, but not for a dual cross country. There you might need an additional 10 gallons so your instructor would need a ready-to-fly weight of 140 pounds. The training facility may not have instructors available who weigh only 140 pounds ready to fly. Not to mention taking off at max gross weigh is not forgiving. You have to be very mindful of temperature and pressure to make sure you have enough power.
I am a commercial pilot. Many of my friends learned on the R22 and loved it. I got my private in the G2 and loved it. I got my commercial rating in the R44 and love it. The R22 is a viable option for you only if you can find a slim instructor. I don't think the training facility was doing anything wrong in steering you toward the R44. It was likely just a reflection of the size of their helicopter instructors.
I did not have any weight issues for my long dual cross country in the G2. I have a bunch of G2 and R44 videos posted on my channel. The most I've flown with in the R44 is three people (in the Winter) and I was a little shy of max gross.
Best of luck to you!
@@PilotTeacher Thank you very much.
I have started my training with them as unfortunately there is no other location near me for many hours, but they stated that getting close to that 240 is rough on the aircraft so they try to keep it lower as to not strain it more.
Nonetheless thank you very much for the reply and for your videos!
They help a ton, have given me much needed direction and I'm sure I will continue to refer to them for years to come.
I look forward to your future videos! You do great work
Thanks again
@@MichaelHeliGuy yes you are correct this is why you see alot of schools place a 180lb weight limit to hiring instructors l!
@@TheCosmicAstro- anytime buddy Im glad you have found them useful so far!!
Bell 47s rock!
Nice 👍 like the video 😊
If the cost difference were less, does training in one of the more expensive helicopters increase a pilot’s employability?
It may. For example if a tour operator flies R44’ and you did all your training on an R44 and the other pilot being interviewed for the job did all their training on the Cabri the job may be given to you.
Thanks 🙏
You make no mention of Helicopter Flight Schools that have a helicopter flight simulator.
I have 15 hours learning on an R22, n yes, it's true, it's a very twitchy bird. I had to quit that school because they were not consistent in their training. I had "4 instructors" in 12 hours of training??? I was supposed to have a "primary instructor". I never felt I did. I transferred to another flight school n they also have a Flyit Helicopter Flight Simulator which you can practice your hovering at half the cost of going up in a real helicopter n have no worries of having a dynamic rollover. To make a long story short, it helps tremendously to practice in a simulator, and it counts as ground school. The helicopter I'm learning to fly in now is a Bell 47G, a six cylinder carbureted model. I love that bird! They also have two R44's, a turbine n a piston model.
I will probably learn to fly them too! So, look for a school with a simulator. You can learn to hover, hover taxi, landing n takeoffs and ground operations in it at half the cost, before you get into the real aircraft saving you a good amount of money. One more thing, it doesn't hurt to lose weight n get in shape. If you are over 250lbs you may need a Huey to train on!!
Hey Dan,
I make no mention as you can only use a helicopter simulator for a maximum of 10 hours to be credited towards the FAA certificate. Yes, they can be cheaper and yes, you can fly more in them, it just wont be credited. You are better to do a few hours in them and then move into the real aircraft.
Sims do provide a good basis for starting but they don't give you the 'Feel' or the response delay like the real aircraft.
I know 20,000 hour pilots who can't hover a sim as they handle so differently.
I have hundreds of hours in sims from basic Frasca and Fly-it's, to the full-motion level D AW139 and SK76 sims and none of them handle the same as the aircraft, although the $30M full motion sims are pretty darn close!
The Bell 47 is a pretty stable machine form what I remember. Did about 10 hours in one over 20 years ago, I just remember it was as slow as molasses, especially with a headwind. Rare to find them now.
As for the weight, It is only the R22 that has the 250lb weight limit, but if that all that is available you will want to get losing some pounds if you can!
4 instructors in 12 hours is horrible! That is nothing but a money factory by the sounds of it! This is one of the things I tell you to look for when selecting a school in my course. I highly recommend you check it out at pilotteacher.com and see so many of the other things you need to do before heading to and while at flight school!
@@PilotTeacher
True!
Many things you talk about are right on point.
However, if one is having difficulty learning to hover, a simulator will help. The cyclic is the most touchy n sensitive control of the helicopter. While only 10hrs count, it doesn't stop one from still practicing on a simulator to gain more proficiency in hovering. Even if the hours don't count, continued practice on a simulator does help, and it's half the cost of training in a real aircraft. Think of it as paying for extra training n practice. Like paying for a gym to go workout.
And yes, you are right about the Bell 47 being slow as molasses, but in all truth, helicopters are not fast aircraft to start with. They're redeeming value is that they hover, ie, sling loads, search n rescue, etc. Not needing a runway to land. If you wanna fly faster, get in a fixed wing airplane. There is nothing more enjoyable than a leisurely helicopter ride around the country side. Try doing that, at warp drive!!! You get my drift. Huey's were also not super fast aircraft, but they excelled n even surpassed at what they were designed to do.
Clear Blue n 22
Stay safe
@@Pork-Chopper oh for sure sims are a great training tool. I even recommend a home setup in my course.
I too much prefer the lower flight cruising of the helicopter. Im usually 500ft when cruising around outside of populated areas as you get to see everything.
The only time I wish it was faster is on long ferry flights with no automation! I sure miss that flight director and AFCS then!!
Just read all the helicopter accident reports and your choice will be much easier. Safety goes before low cost!
300C.
Super great content sir.
Thanks
Glad you found it helpful!!
Where r u located? I'm getting hourly rates of 650 solo and 825 dual in R22's which is a BS ripoff.
Call around the flight schools in your area and see what the general rates are.
do flight hours in experimental aircraft count? ive heard that they dont apply since they are not registered have you heard of this ?
Hi Evan. To be honest this is a question I’ve never heard or even thought about. This might be worth a call to your local FSDO office and ask them to see what they say.
From: www.ecfr.gov/on/2018-07-27/title-14/chapter-I/subchapter-D/part-61/subpart-A/section-61.51
Aircraft requirements for logging flight time. For a person to log flight time, the time must be acquired in an aircraft that is identified as an aircraft under § 61.5(b), and is -
(1) An aircraft of U.S. registry with either a standard or special airworthiness certificate;
(2) An aircraft of foreign registry with an airworthiness certificate that is approved by the aviation authority of a foreign country that is a Member State to the Convention on International Civil Aviation Organization;
(3) A military aircraft under the direct operational control of the U.S. Armed Forces; or
(4) A public aircraft under the direct operational control of a Federal, State, county, or municipal law enforcement agency, if the flight time was acquired by the pilot while engaged on an official law enforcement flight for a Federal, State, County, or Municipal law enforcement agency.
Yes you can but... There is some things you need to get approved first. www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/91.319
How would you compare a Bell47G-4a?
I have around 10 hours in a Bell 47 and all i remember was it was as slow as molasses hahaha. Trying to het anywhere with a headwind was worse than the 300cbi.
Trying to find one to train in is tough too for most people.
@@PilotTeacher I'm just starting out. 3 hours in. It is hard but maybe that'll help me in the long run. It's been bumped up to around 300hp so maybe that'll help? Regardless thanks for everything you do. You have become an essential part of my training and inspiration!
@@a1investigations433 oh fun!! I still remember my first few hours!! Rollercoaster is an understatement! Im glad I can help! Be sure to check out Helicopters category of blog posts on PilotTeacher.com/blog to hell you further!
hands down without a doubt the Bell 47
Unless you get a headwind! I went nowhere when I trained in one hahaha
it goes 60 MPH it's pretty easy to tell how far you've gone in that time and yes you do have to calculate headwind lol. true training with wooden blades@@PilotTeacher
@@smb5655 20 minutes to go 5 miles down the road and 3 min to get back hahaha
What I loved about the bill 47 is that you could look and see everything on the helicopter by looking up and around period a big bubble you could see everything
@@smb5655 cb300 was cool for that too.
Those hourly flight rates are cheap, I'm flying a Cabri G2 and the hourly cost is $700 per hour solo and dual. I'm based in NZ
Ouch!!!
Hughes 300
Best Helicopter is the one I could afford to rent , but thats still in development until these days
Blue Thunder
I know flying is not for everyone, some people just dont have the coordination to do it. The question is, will every fixed wing pilot have the capacity to convert to flying helicopters.
I see no reason why not. It is all just practice like learning to ride a bike or driving a car. It will take some people longer but I’ve never met a student who can’t get the hang of it. Their mentality and decision making, well thats a whole other story!
Perfeito.
That hover holy shit.
😁
The best trainer by ANY standard is the Hughes 269/300. Thats just a fact, in my opinion. I wouldn't touch a R22/44 with a 50 foot pole for training, no way!!! Mr Frank Robinson said himself, many, many times, the R22 is NOT a trainer, nor was it ever designed to be a trainer, period!!! That's just the facts!!!
Any helicopter can be used to train in. Yes some are more forgiving but like any helicopter, fly it outside of its limitations and it will bite you.
Having instructed in both the 269 and the R22 they are both great machines.
Seems to cost a lot more in Europe
It sure is! That is one of the main reason why I left the UK and moved to the US to finish my flight training.
Bell 47 no question
They are as slow as molasses and even rarer to find than the Cabri hence why I didn’t include them in the lineup.
The hardest part of heli training is robbing a couple banks to afford it.
Bell 505
Too expensive.
Pfft that would take up half my life savings.
I could buy a house for that.
What lic😎
I absolutely despise the cabri. It's awful. I have about 45 hours in it and I hated every second. I'd take a 22 any day
What did you not like about it?
@@PilotTeacher Foot is to the floor just in a pick up because the tail is so weak, cyclic is incredibly stiff to the point of almost needing hydraulics, throttle governor is terrifying on start up and even more so in auto recoveries, the body is sitting on top of the skids so hover autos make you feel like you'll slide right out, it has a very nose low attitude in cruise flight, the start up is almost 6 minutes, doors off flying makes an unbearable buffeting noise, and it's unnecessarily more expensive than an R22. But large cowels make for an easy preflight 😅
في عرب هنا😢
the fact that the f22/44 has a disability (!) cyclic should tell you everything you need to know. out of those the H269 is by far the best as it’s a proper helicopter, it’s got substance. the Cabri is a great little thing but has no weight, and nothing to draw you in to it’s world. yes the Enstrom 28/280 is fabulous but niche-y. The Bell 47 ha, welcome to helicopter heaven, but it’ll make a man of you, a real enthusiast and a devoted pilot for life. all the light ones might turn you gay. I started on the Brantly 2B. don’t go there. no power, zero disc inertia, and the 2 piece blades are frighteningly close to one head.
Brantly 2B thats a blast from the past! Doesn’t that have wooden blades too?
I don’t think there will ever be a perfect training helicopter. If they do create one it will be too expensive for the masses!
Haha I’d forgotten that bit!! Ayez indeed wood they were!
the Bell 47 has it all, visibility, balance, lots of power, authority in every stage of flight, boosted controls, loads of disc inertia. Learn to fly that you become a King of the air, walking tall in any company, so much pioneering history since 1947 every helicopter EVER made has to kneel in its presence. a total dreamboat
@@CasinoSquareCafe until you get a headwind! I remember trying to do a cross-country flight in a B47 and we gave up and returned to the hanger! Slow at the best of times, painful with a headwind!
@@PilotTeacher yes that’s true enough, I was never much higher than 20ft agl so never really encountered the problem. I’ve been spoilt by slowness when I flew a S55 on floats (!!) offshore in the North Sea, max cruise 70mph with regular 90kt winds! spent a few absolutely hellish freezing cold nights out in the Scottish glens huddled in the back of it because of such conditions. it tri fitted with a RR gnome turbine but had manual thrno throttle correlation at allow, that was fun too
...*manual throttle as it had no correlation at all*
You just gave me a reality CHECK , when I saw that knuckle Head taking off in the home made egg beater . Not funny for any one standing close Bye
YOU DIDN’T MENTION THAT THE TOTAL OF THE SEAT WEIGHTS IN A GABRI IS ABOUT 190 kg. So, if you are fat and you want to fly with a fat person, YOU CANT.
Thats where the 300cbi comes in, or just get a bigger helicopter.
What's the difference between a pilot certificate and a license?
Hey Josh, its purely vocabulary. Many pilots switch between saying certificate and licence, especially those who have flown in many countries. They are both the same thing. Some countries call it a pilot certificate, and others a pilot license.
@@PilotTeacher okay, thanks for the response.