Kroak's random death rule one of the stupidest things I've seen. I like that they made him better with this recent update but he's still only a 3-cast wizard now. Meanwhile Teclis is auto-casting 4 spells per turn at a roll of 10, lol!
@CalebHastings 18 hp with the 4+ ward and a small heal on top of that would make perfect sense. His Dead for Innumerable Ages rule actually made him hard to kill in AoS 1e. Ever since they introduced his new model he's been strong but the random chance to die from any damage really feels bad. Bad for your opponent if they do a lot of damage and he just heals it all back, and bad for you if he takes less than half his HP in damage and just kills himself, lol!
Most games, my opponents ignore Kroak as I surround him with Kroxigors and Saurus guard and he kills them by attrition. One game, he healed 6 damage and it felt good. One game, he miscast on the first spell in the first turn of the first round. Took 3 mortals, I roll a 17 and he's dead. Bad Sad game over. One game, my opponent's shark takes a cheeky pot shot at Kroak turn one (back when I sucked at deploying him as guarded hero), did 2 damage and I rolled an 18. FML So, most games he's absolute value town and a headache for my opponents. But sometimes he just peaces out round one and you're left playing 1500 points vs 2000 :D
This is why the army badly needed Chakax, the Eternity Warden, to bodyguard him. I converted my own from the plastic Old Blood on foot model in 8th edition with a custom square base, two handed weapon, and an artifact attached to his waist to represent his stone that slows time.
I've played 4 games with him now and won 3 of those. I've been playing him in a strong castle using Saurus Warriors and Raptadons to screen. Hammer with Kroxigor Warspawned and play the board with a snake tank Bastilidon and 2 units of Hunters of Huanchi. Battle tactics can be a little tricky but Kroak's command of the Manifestation game is near total.
Kroak is such a weird piece for me right now.. I still feel like he's over costed for what he brings to the table. He has excellent chip damage and high potential for decent MW output with the new spell change, but the instant death mechanic is such a "feels bad" moment. I took 2 shots from 2 Ironweld Great Cannon, they connected for 7 damage and I rolled a 13 for Kroak to instantly die. Essentially 1/4 of my army shot off the table.. I still pulled out a win during this game, because I was able to deepstrike with some reinforced Kroxigors, but the moment Kroak died really bothered me. I don't like those kind of odds when I'm playing. It just creates more stress for me and I end up focusing on keeping units safe rather than playing objectives. Grand Alliance Order | Seraphon | Eternal Starhost Drops: 2 Spell Lore - Lore of Celestial Manipulation Manifestation Lore - Primal Energy ----- General’s Regiment Slann Starmaster (280) • General • Coatl Familiar • Being of the Stars Raptadon Chargers (280) • Reinforced Saurus Guard (240) • Reinforced --- Regiment 1 Lord Kroak (430) Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek (230) Kroxigor Warspawned (440) • Reinforced Skink Starpriest (100) ----- Faction Terrain Realmshaper Engine -----
Managed to get hit by Varanguard, and somehow survived! I had Quetzel, and a Bastiladon as bodyguard honor guard to reduce attacks and screened with morbid conjuration spells, seemed to work, although will be interesting to see him face some decent shooting!
I had kroak die 2 times last week on a 2day GT . FIrst game first time Kroak had 4 wounds taken and i rolled 16 on a 3d6 and that lost me a game , later in 3rd round i had 5 wound taken and yet again i rolled 15 on a 3d6 . Kroak almost went flying irl.
Been playing Kroak in a more castle style with quetzl- Combat nearly becomes irrelevant thankfully, only concern seems to be shooting. Im debating taking twilight sorceries for the Palisade to add a Layer of Defence combined with spellportal Range - makes Sense in my Head, not sure how it Plays out though
Since you've already played several games with Kroak, do you recommend him over the normal Slann? Or is there no point in comparing them because you have to play differently?
Yeah, it is a tough comparison. Slann tends to want to sit back and sling Endless Spells and bring units back (if you can somehow roll that 4+ when you need it). Kroak wants to be more aggressive and get to the mid board.
I haven't played Kroak in a long while but the last time I played him (middle/end of 3rd) Archeon did his 3d6 charge spell and then did his king slayer attack ability and insta killed Kroak while he was standing next to 15 saurus guard and an astrolith... All literally on the very first round of the game... needless to say I lost
@CalebHastings I'm also prepping for an event in 3 weekends time, thoughts on Slaan and Kroak together? 2 units of 6 Krox, 5 Sauras Guard, 2 units of 3 Ripperdactyls. Huge event down here in Aus so working out what to take.
@@tuned_tv Oh man... That's a lot of points with both... But... Maybe it works? Turn 1 Slann gives Kroak +1 to cast. + Asterism. Kroak is at +4 to cast. Kroak casts Endless Spells. Slann casts Speed and Comet. Turn 2 Kroak is in range for Celestial Deliverance. Slann works endless spells and Comet.
I think kroak’s rule is pretty fun, and it makes a really hard decision for your opponent. In your stormcast example. The longstrikes have a 25% chance to kill him outright….. but your opponent also has a 75% chance to have their expensive ranged unit do nothing. Which is kind of interesting.
Oh no!! Yeah, that makes Kroak VERY squishy! And it seems like there is a decent amount of stuff that can shut off (or reduce wards) in the game right now.
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
Kroak's random death rule one of the stupidest things I've seen. I like that they made him better with this recent update but he's still only a 3-cast wizard now. Meanwhile Teclis is auto-casting 4 spells per turn at a roll of 10, lol!
Agree. A standard D3 heal (or... lets go "crazy"... a D6 heal) feels infinitely better than: Heal 18 or DIE! Lol
@CalebHastings 18 hp with the 4+ ward and a small heal on top of that would make perfect sense. His Dead for Innumerable Ages rule actually made him hard to kill in AoS 1e. Ever since they introduced his new model he's been strong but the random chance to die from any damage really feels bad. Bad for your opponent if they do a lot of damage and he just heals it all back, and bad for you if he takes less than half his HP in damage and just kills himself, lol!
@@abyssaldragonslayer4389at least getting back to “every phase” not “end of turn”
Good to see another Seraphon video from you; always a must see. Hope you had a good holidays with friends and family. Cheers!
Happy new year!
They should just give him D3 heal or a kind of seed of rebirth thing where he can come back one mid health
Most games, my opponents ignore Kroak as I surround him with Kroxigors and Saurus guard and he kills them by attrition.
One game, he healed 6 damage and it felt good.
One game, he miscast on the first spell in the first turn of the first round. Took 3 mortals, I roll a 17 and he's dead. Bad Sad game over.
One game, my opponent's shark takes a cheeky pot shot at Kroak turn one (back when I sucked at deploying him as guarded hero), did 2 damage and I rolled an 18. FML
So, most games he's absolute value town and a headache for my opponents. But sometimes he just peaces out round one and you're left playing 1500 points vs 2000 :D
This is why the army badly needed Chakax, the Eternity Warden, to bodyguard him. I converted my own from the plastic Old Blood on foot model in 8th edition with a custom square base, two handed weapon, and an artifact attached to his waist to represent his stone that slows time.
Took him to an RTT recently. A real feels bad when he goes down to chip early. I still think Slann is the way to go.
Where can I get that bubble shield from the thumbnail?
I've played 4 games with him now and won 3 of those. I've been playing him in a strong castle using Saurus Warriors and Raptadons to screen. Hammer with Kroxigor Warspawned and play the board with a snake tank Bastilidon and 2 units of Hunters of Huanchi. Battle tactics can be a little tricky but Kroak's command of the Manifestation game is near total.
Perfect!
Kroak is such a weird piece for me right now.. I still feel like he's over costed for what he brings to the table.
He has excellent chip damage and high potential for decent MW output with the new spell change, but the instant death mechanic is such a "feels bad" moment.
I took 2 shots from 2 Ironweld Great Cannon, they connected for 7 damage and I rolled a 13 for Kroak to instantly die.
Essentially 1/4 of my army shot off the table..
I still pulled out a win during this game, because I was able to deepstrike with some reinforced Kroxigors, but the moment Kroak died really bothered me. I don't like those kind of odds when I'm playing. It just creates more stress for me and I end up focusing on keeping units safe rather than playing objectives.
Grand Alliance Order | Seraphon | Eternal Starhost
Drops: 2
Spell Lore - Lore of Celestial Manipulation
Manifestation Lore - Primal Energy
-----
General’s Regiment
Slann Starmaster (280)
• General
• Coatl Familiar
• Being of the Stars
Raptadon Chargers (280)
• Reinforced
Saurus Guard (240)
• Reinforced
---
Regiment 1
Lord Kroak (430)
Bastiladon with Ark of Sotek (230)
Kroxigor Warspawned (440)
• Reinforced
Skink Starpriest (100)
-----
Faction Terrain
Realmshaper Engine
-----
Is your range calculations including -1 to hit on kroak. He is a hero who usually is withing 3 of a friendly unit.
@@ninjaloter Nope! Guarded Hero (shooting) and Body Guard (combat) will both help make Kroak tougher!
Managed to get hit by Varanguard, and somehow survived! I had Quetzel, and a Bastiladon as bodyguard honor guard to reduce attacks and screened with morbid conjuration spells, seemed to work, although will be interesting to see him face some decent shooting!
NICE!
I'll play Kroak when I'll have 75% of my army painted....
The story I want to hear is Kroak killing himself with a miscast. Very low odds. But not zero.
Extremely low... but not zero! Haha
I had kroak die 2 times last week on a 2day GT . FIrst game first time Kroak had 4 wounds taken and i rolled 16 on a 3d6 and that lost me a game , later in 3rd round i had 5 wound taken and yet again i rolled 15 on a 3d6 . Kroak almost went flying irl.
Haha oh no! That's the worst!
Been playing Kroak in a more castle style with quetzl- Combat nearly becomes irrelevant thankfully, only concern seems to be shooting. Im debating taking twilight sorceries for the Palisade to add a Layer of Defence combined with spellportal Range - makes Sense in my Head, not sure how it Plays out though
Since you've already played several games with Kroak, do you recommend him over the normal Slann? Or is there no point in comparing them because you have to play differently?
Yeah, it is a tough comparison. Slann tends to want to sit back and sling Endless Spells and bring units back (if you can somehow roll that 4+ when you need it). Kroak wants to be more aggressive and get to the mid board.
I haven't played Kroak in a long while but the last time I played him (middle/end of 3rd) Archeon did his 3d6 charge spell and then did his king slayer attack ability and insta killed Kroak while he was standing next to 15 saurus guard and an astrolith... All literally on the very first round of the game... needless to say I lost
Ouch! He is now hanging out with a few Slanns I've lost to the King Slayer sword over the years!
I've stopped taking him for now, I miss the recursion of a Slaan but I also have lost him on 6 or less wounds in the last 3 games.
BRUTAL!
@CalebHastings I'm also prepping for an event in 3 weekends time, thoughts on Slaan and Kroak together?
2 units of 6 Krox, 5 Sauras Guard, 2 units of 3 Ripperdactyls.
Huge event down here in Aus so working out what to take.
@@tuned_tv Oh man... That's a lot of points with both... But... Maybe it works?
Turn 1 Slann gives Kroak +1 to cast. + Asterism. Kroak is at +4 to cast. Kroak casts Endless Spells. Slann casts Speed and Comet.
Turn 2 Kroak is in range for Celestial Deliverance. Slann works endless spells and Comet.
I think kroak’s rule is pretty fun, and it makes a really hard decision for your opponent. In your stormcast example. The longstrikes have a 25% chance to kill him outright….. but your opponent also has a 75% chance to have their expensive ranged unit do nothing. Which is kind of interesting.
That's what I was thinking. Having 20% of your army doing nothing 75% of the time... I probably shoot on something else.
Wonderful video, though some of your probability assumptions could be tweaked a bit
too bad its age of soymar.
Let’s go gambling
the two games I had with him, his ward was turn off twice n killed.
Oh no!! Yeah, that makes Kroak VERY squishy! And it seems like there is a decent amount of stuff that can shut off (or reduce wards) in the game right now.