I hate romance anime where the guys are bullies. I love the new anime out rn Skip and Loafer where the guy is actually a DREAM. He’s so kind, humble, and gentle! I want more romance mangas like that!
The anime was really good but ehh as the manga progress the rmore it emphasizes how Hak and Yohna were meant to be leaning towards fate and ehhh it kinda defeats the natural build up
I feel it’s a bit late to have yona next season, I remember waiting for it‘s next season when I was in primary or middle school. And til now I am already second year in uni.
@@zweipinguine its kinda funny when one of the dragons comment on how Hak would probably keep the princess locked up. Then they covered it up with Hak saying something like I would never do that, I would want the world to see you 😂😂 The more of the manga continued, the less of it I liked it. They made Hak superhuman... yes hes talented but shouldn't stand equal footing to the other dragons. Its just weird, i didnt like were it was heading. I will say the Anime did a better job then the manga.
Excellent video! As I have gotten older I have been seeking out anime with non-toxic male leads. It's sad to think of how I watched so much toxicity at a young age. I really want to cleanse my subconscious mind of that nonsense and read about men who are able to have masculinity and femininity exist within themselves simultaneously in a healthy way.
Funny enough I can and have watched so many toxic anime/manga without problem but I always had a big problem if it's with real people. That's why I never liked a lot of k-/j-dramas
‘High School Debut’ is another example of a good shoujo romance with a great male lead. Also from the same author, there’s My Love Story, where the shoujo’s MC is a big burly guy.
@@trika91 Haven't picked up 'High School Debut', but I finished 'My Love Story' a couple of weeks ago. It was amazing! The synergy with the cast was refreshing.
The thing I did like about Boys Over Flowers was that Tsukushi started developing feelings for Tsukasa AFTER he started growing as a person and being more kind and considerate toward her. But then as the story goes on its like the author kept flip flopping over their relationship, specifically having Tsukasa's character development going back and forth. Not to mention how the narrative was actually treating Tsukasa's attempted assault of Tsukushi fairly seriously only to...sort of just hand wave it as not a big deal? I'm all for flawed characters and complicated relationships but there has to be some consistency, especially when it comes to dealing with very real, very serious subjects, like SA and trauma.
@@itsbasicboi I am glad adaptations tend to make his character less violent, more outwardly kind/comedic, or omit things like the attempted SA, but the anime/manga will still always have a special place in my heart ❤
Yeah, I also like how the MC initially didn't take anyone's shit... but then progressively, it's like she completely loses her will. And sure, admittedly, bullying can do that to you, it's just... so disappointing to see and it doesn't feel very enouraging or inspirational to me, who was also bullied. And yeah, the SA was just... too much. It's hard for me to like a character after they did something like that, and the constant flipflopping did not help the matter.
Its amazing how you're analysing it this much lmfao. I just think it's the time period and the sexist climate surrounding entertainment that makes these older shoujo so damn problematic. It's better to just turn your brain off when dealing with boys over flowers, itazura kiss and the like.
Both Kyo and Yuki are some of my favorite male leads in any anime! I'd honestly argue Kyo is the epitome of "Tsundere character done right" ngl. The way he always encourages Tohru to speak up about her problems is so heart warming! And ofc Yuki, has imo by far the best character writing in Fruits Basket! Such an amazing and kind hearted soul he is, love him!
One of my fave shojo boys is Otani from lovely complex. I love how he treated everyone the same esp when it came to seiko (a p well written trans character). I still think about my personal relationships in terms of crab and ume.
Man, I wish there was an English dub for it. It sounds interesting, but since I tend to multitask when watching anime, I'd feel more of an incentive to watch it if it were dubbed.
yesss lovely complex will always have a place in my heart:’) risa also works really hard to get otani to notice her and them finally getting together feels earned
boys over flowers was insane i'm surprised more people don't talk about the school basically being full of psychopaths for no reason just because they heard rumors and do whatever tsukasa says and then also about how much tsukasa hits women including tsukushi (also forcing himself upon her) and yet somehow we're supposed to believe tsukushi falls for him lol
I preferred the Korean drama. I found it through the manga and anime so there’s nostalgia there but I feel the drama does way a better job. I feel like the author could’ve done a whole lot with the characters and story but I think the times had too big of an impact on it
I remember feeling physically ill when I was reading hot gimmick. I'm not sure how to describe it but I felt a visceral reaction every time one of the male characters did anything. The worst part was that I only read it because I was looking for josei recommendations and was told that it was really emotional and deep.
The first time I had contact with hot gimmick was with the Netflix live action version: at the first moments of the movie with that little bitch insulting the girl and also basically with every single interaction of the two I literally fumed with rage. I immediately looked up spoilers to know if the ml would eventually die or something and stopped watching when I descovered that he was actually the ml
Hot Gimmick was trash and not even the guilty pleasure type. No redeeming characteristics whatsoever. I tried to stick it out hoping dude would get better or get lost. Didn’t finish it. Him slapping her was the last straw that made me toss that book across the room. Even thinking about it now makes me upset.
I don't understand why kindness is considered to be feminine. Protectiveness which is a key trait of traditional masculinity is a manifestation or display of kindness.
Hm…I wish that more male shoujo characters were like Noé Archiviste (from Case Study of Vanitas)and Makoto Tachibana (from the Free franchise): men that were strong yet sweet, sensitive, and somewhat naive individuals while being extremely smart and emotionally invested in the people around them. But that’s just me. Feel free to give me recommendations for shoujo manga that have that character type if you have some.
I hope you've read Akagami no Shirayukihime (Snow White with Red Hair) because the main pair is so sweet and healthy they gave me cavities. They communicate their needs and wants with each other and they trust each other to be competent in their own fields.
Princess Jellyfish is a must for me! I ate that manga up when I was a kid and also the series promotes body positivity in an amazing and lighthearted way. Edit: Would also recommend Kaitou Saint Tail because the anime and manga portrays healthy relationships and I love the healthy marriage of the femc's parents.
The worst case of toxic men being romanticised is definitely diabolic lovers... MY GOD every men in that series is an embodiment of a toxic trait it's ridiculous 💀 Being portrayed in a feminised manner, it shows the dichotomy of female soft appearances and agressive male traits :/
That was for sure it's own can of worms but been an otome with that kind of themes the anime as always is marketing and had to give samples of what the vibe will be... still for sure the kind of game you only pick if you vibe with reading all that
It was meant to be that way as a "fetish" tho? It was catered specifically for more masochistic women who like vampires? It was never meant to be wholesome, the toxicity is the whole selling point.
I would definitely recommend it. I started reading this manga in middle school and I'm graduating with a college bachelor's degree in a month currently . I still read the manga, and it's crazy how it's still not finished. I am disappointed they never went further with the anime, but maybe someday. There are a lot of funny moments I really enjoy.
I like this there are some good points. I never liked bad-tempered men. Everytime I watched shoujo I would pay close attention to the guy. If he was rude and abusive I just couldn't watch it. I could only watch it unless the intent of the shoujo was to do a character deconstruction and critique you know if it was actually self-aware.
The complexities of men reading and loving Shojo- some for alternate versions of escapism and some for less wholesome reasons (unfortunately) is a take I’ve never seen people bring up before. Thank you for bringing this to light and for this video!
I read about 3 chapters of Wolf Girl and Black Prince and went, "This is toxic... No thanks!" Glad to know I haven't missed anything. But I'm also an adult... Scary thinking about young girls reading it and thinking it's "romantic"....
@@BurningRubber454lol not all shoujo are high school romance, despite being majority lol. There's shoujo where romance is minor or even none at all, it's all depends on the genre. Even not all romance shoujo is the same, I mean look at A Sign of Affection or A Condition Called Love and compare it to Boys Over Flowers or Wolf Girl & Black Prince like in this video.
This is a great video and I really love the analysis of the more toxic men in shojou! As a slim, more emotionally vulnerable, and "pretty" rather than "masculine" guy, I find shoujo to be a genre of comfort because I can actually connect with the male characters of desire depicted. I always felt like I was distant from the western hyper-masculine archetype of what a man should be and it really affected my self-esteem in my teens. Seeing the softer depiction of men in shoujo has helped me become a lot more comfortable with who I am as I 'm navigating my early 20s and it makes me feel sad for those who are trying to conform to the toxic " ideal" that the majority of men think that should be.
Where is this type of man irl? I actually had a group of regular males interrogate me and the validity of my taste in men. I like feminine, pretty men. The girlier, the better. I also like masculine, 'butch' women. The standard males were not having it at all. They found the idea very amusing. Honestly, I don't think my tastes are that uncommon. (Maybe the oddly specific bisexuality is a bit odd.) It's just that society shames those of us who think this way, sometimes to the point that we hide our true interests. Nobody laughs at/ridicules 'standard males' for stating their types. But when I say mine, it's like circus city.
This 100% makes me think of Playful Kiss. So many times I wanted to punch the male lead’s face. Also, why is it that the female characters in early 2000s manga/anime either have no personality, are far too aggressive or are just there to cause issues?
YESS!!! I watched it until the arc where they were working as a Nurse and Doctor when married when I got to a point where I couldn't stomach all the red flags in their relationship, primarily due to that arsehole male lead.
The manga is better. They butchered Naoki to sell him as a spoiled and frivolous man. He goes through much more development and so does Kotoko (despite the fact that most of her character is getting into situations because she follows Naoki to the end of the world. I still found her adorable.)
Hahaha I thought this video was gonna be about all the lovely, well-adjusted, supportive boyfriends in shoujo. My man really picked the three worst male shoujo protags (other than Hak, Hak is bae). But it’s good to know men like shoujo??? I wasn’t aware of this
finally, thank you for uploading this. I've been telling my girlfriends to watch or read more shoujo bc those male characters are typically more tender and sweet, overall positive, image of a male lover/friend
My not well lit phone showed 3 boys and the darkness. I laughed and said "would this be Hak ?" And at a better angle, it was, lol. And so, I clicked too
say i love you anime felt really rushed to me, i even noticed some parts of the animation were drawn a little off.. the manga was much better with the story delivery and pacing imo, the character development is much more prevalent and the conflicts are resolved quite well too! u should definitely give it a read :))
Great analysis! While the topic is more on romantic shoujo, horror shoujo is only an influential genre that not many people know about as well. Even Junji Ito, the master of horror also started as a shoujo manaka with his Tomie series. Shoujo can be for everyone!
@@xmanarx2614 I think it depends, because woman in shonen are usually written bad, they have no personality, are made for fan service, don’t have a big point in plot. While when men written In shoujo for me are way better
Idk when I clicked the video I thought it was gonna be about the really lovely boys of shoujo, not all the weird ones haha. Still a nice video but I'm not sure if it all linked that well together. Especially with the first part I got interested in how men react to the more sweeter protrayal of guys, but then it went to all the problematic ones haha. But nice video! Found the first part so interesting!
I do got to say as a hardcore yona of the dawn fan I feel like the common description of yona of the dawn just doesn't fit because of what is going on currently in the manga... don't read further if you don't want spoilers and another thing this is gonna take a while to read lol so you might wanna sit down and grab a snack XD . . . . . . . . . . . . . .so in the manga and I'm pretty sure the anime too, zeno asks yona if she wanted revenge against su-won, she didn't know how to respond to ( no one really did since no one excepted zeno to ask that question) yona mentions to ik-soo that she couldn't draw the sword referring to when su-won hide her from the sky tribe guards back in port awa (hak does overhear this conversation) so as time progress yona would eventually come across su-won this doesn't happen until yona is in the water tribe (this is after the fire tribe ark where we see Kan Tae- jun again {the guy who pulled yona's hair he does become a better person so worry not} ) , both yona and su-won are shocked to see each other again, and yona does struggle to keep her composer as she is some what emotionally distressed through out the time they are near each other (hak is not present in these scenes) however yona shows no interest in killing su-won as same with su-won not wanting to kill her either, su-won even goes out of his way to warn yona not do something for it is dangerous, which easily leaves us to believe that he never truly wanted her dead in the first place. hak on the other hand when he finally saw su-won he was filled with a blinding rage to a point it didn't matter who was in his way jae- ha tried to stop hak by even kicking him in the face but that didn't stop him as he then attacked jae- ha also, yona's voice was the only one to reach him to calm him down because hak was pretty injured during these scenes, I don't plan on going farther into this part of the plot cause you need to read the manga because it's an amazing series but following hak's feelings hak has always loved yona but at one point he stop thinking "i want her to be mine, i want her to notice me" being due to unrequited love, we see this in a flash back after yona's confession to hak, he just wanted yona to be happy, ( i do appreciate that the writer did take her time with yona developing feelings for hak and not her just like WELP SU-WON AIN'T AN OPTION, HAK IT IS {not that su-won should ever be an option})
I’m so happy finding more fans! I was so happy when she finally confessed cuz that (to me) that he could finally stop killing his feelings (which is bad for you). Cant wait to see how it ends!
Another great video! Your videos always make me think and really adds to treating shoujo as works of art and depictions into society and relationships that are overlooked. I’ve always felt so icky about Boys Over Flowers and how degrading the original is to the main character. And could not bring myself to watch Wolf Girl and Black Prince, because girl treat yourself better!!
Here my list of « healthy » shojo boys (please note that I don’t pretend to know everything about shojo and I didn’t watch all the shojo manga that existed. And also please excuse my English level) : 1. Shota Kazehaya from Kimi ni Todoke : he is and will probably stay one of my always favorite healthy shojo boy. Today I think it become easier to find sweet boy in shojos like Shota Kazeyaha but he will always be the first example that appear to me when it comes to a sweet boy. 2. Hak from Akatsuki no Yona : my gentle and fierce god Hak…(yeah I know I’m a fangirl XD). But seriously please do not take into account the first interactions he had with the female lead Yona because he only use the teasing to hide his true feelings for her. Generally speaking Hak is supportive of Yona, he’s excited to see her becoming stronger and even if he constantly fears for her safety he will always respect her own decisions and gladly follows her during her journey. That’s a real man ! 3. Nagi Itsuomi from a sign of affection : I adore the lovely and modern couple he forms with the heroine. Itsuomi is a honest and open-minded boy who deeply value communication. 4. Miyamura Izumi from Horimiya : Just like the main couple in "a sign of affection", Izumi and the heroine both make a sweet and modern couple. 5. Kyo Sohma from Fruits Basket (2019) : Even if I wasn’t a big fan of Kyo at first (I’m generally not a fan of Tsundere boy) he really grows on me near the end of the story. He is supportive of Tohru and help her to express her self-doubts and fears. 6. Takasu Ryûji from Toradora! : Speaking of tsundere trope, here’s a kind boy and a tsundere girl ! Ryuji, despite his looks, is sweet and always willing to support his friends and the female lead. Even if the main couple both have a crush on another person at first, their friendship/partnership will soon turn into something more. 7. Shall Fen Shall from Sugar Apple Fairy Tale : I really hesitated to put this one on the list…not because Shall is « toxic » to Anne but more because he’s at first quite hostile toward her. But his hostility and hate for human beings is « justify » considering the whole context of the story (that take place in a world in which faeries are ensclaved by humans). So yes expect a very sarcastic fairy who will at the beginning try to make the heroine uncomfortable and push her bottoms to prove the hypocrisy of the situation. Fortunately this attitude will only last during the first 3 / 4 episodes (out of 24) and rather quickly Shall will be supportive of Anne and respect her decisions (even if he will sometimes call her « stupid » which pissed me off a little,... just a little lol). So to conclude : if you’re looking for an acceptable « ennemies / opposite side » (kind of) to « friends » to « lovers » (kind of) relationship, this one is for you ! Honorable mentions (because I still didn’t watch them but heard some good things about them) : Rascal does not dream of bunny girl senpai Wotakoi My happy mariage The bibliophile princess Skip and Loafer Akagami no Shirayukihime If you think of others sweet and healthy relationship, please do not hesitated to tell me 😊
Amazing video!! I RUclipsd “Shojo Iceberg” and I saw your playlist for video essays. I love your editing and objective analysis. Your demeanor is super welcoming as well :). I have a great interest cause I went thru 3 years of therapy to understand myself and now I’m understanding my own masculinity (also courtesy of watching a ton of PsychologyInSeattle). I dropped a like and will be watching more of your videos!
This was so interesting, and something that came to mind as I watched it (though a bit off topic) was how there’s anime like Horimiya that have traits like shojo but is regarded as shonen, I think due to the target audience, which can be applied to how the characters are written (in this case male leads) but for a separate demographic.
the Kairi slander had me hahaha XD been ages since I watched Peach Girl and all I remember was being so frustrated with the drama. Great video! Def like learning a new retrospective of shojo
Maybe I have to rewatch Say I Love You because I honestly remember it being kinda misogynystic with the portrayal and treatment of the female characters outside the protagonist. Yona Of The Dawn seriously deserved more seasons though.
There are tons of fluffy romance shoujo anime out there with normal ml. People who don't like red flag male leads aren't supposed to watch this type of dark romance anime. These are specifically made for red flag ml lovers like us.
these are both older series, but inuyasha and the vision of escaflowne have great romances between the main protags. Both with good female leads and the love interest being non toxic and having good character development. I'd recommend them to anyone who wants a series with good action/adventure but also good romance
I mean, if there was a "general audience" genre in manganime, Inu Yasha definitely would qualify for it. The action is pretty Shounen-typical, while the romance and interpersonal relationships are more akin to Shoujo. Yona of the Dawn comes pretty close to that as well.
If theres something that really bothered me about Say I Love You, it’s that It felt like the ML changed for Yamato?? I thought she was fine the way she was, but she just kind of changed for him? Idk if that was ever covered in the manga, but it just really bothered me as kid bc she was one of the few ML that I related to as a kid. Maybe it would be different if I watched it now as an adult? But it just always bothered me as a kid.
i feel like she didnt change *for* him as much as she changed *becuase* of him. Like thanks to him she started opening herself more to new relationships and experience different things. At least thats the way i interpret it
@@暇なりな exactly this. It’s portrayed alot better in the manga I believe, especially as more characters that aren’t in the anime are introduced, Mei becomes alot better at not only recognising these changes internally, but also voicing them out as she gains alot of confidence as the story goes on and helps out other characters too. Legit one of my favourite shoujos ever 💯
YES!! I recently got back into reading shoujo, and it's the best. No other types of stories i've read in the past seem to be able to tackle feelings around romance and friendship (among other things) as well as shoujo series are often able to. Not that it needs to always be romantic, plenty of shoujo series tackle way more than just that and succeed amazingly. So many amazing works go under peoples radars due to them being for a specific demographic, but SCREW THAT great stories are meant for everyone to enjoy.
Greaat video! I'm glad people are speaking out for our boys. One thing though, the whole thing with Tsukasa IS that he is toxic, Youko Kamio has a long history of exploring trauma and society in her stories (see cat street for a more modern outlook) but the joke in Boys over flowers is that tsukasa AND rui are toxic in their own ways and tsukushi despises one and idealizes the other, until Tsukasa decides to change for her and rui doesn't and that's why Tsukasa """"wins"""" in the end, tsukasa starts putting others before himself and that's why Tsukushi likes him, he is flawed but he tries. At the time many didn't get the joke and thought domineering and assertive was the fantasy, instead of "you would rather change and leave your privilage behind for me" that was the actual fantasy in tsukasa's archetype. then again the anime cuts the story half way through so I'm not shocked.
This was really well done. This is also the first I’m even hearing of boys over flowers having multiple remakes, I’d only ever known the k drama and haaaaaaated the toxic bad boy angle.
Great video!! This brought back so many memories omg, I did not remember Wolf Girl and Balck Prince being that bad. One of the worst offenders is probably Honey × Honey Drops, like, that was abuse and classism glorified. The premise is that the rich students of a school are assigned scholarship kids (called honeys) to become their helpers, and lots of them fall in love. But there is a very creepy master-servant dynamic going on and the honeys have to wear an earring with the flower/symbol of the master's family to signify the ownership. The ML literally sexually harasses the FL at the start. These characters are ~16 y/o. I was obsessed with this manga when I was 12, and it's super interesting to see how much of my understanding and expectations around romance were shaped by such toxic portrayals of masculinity and feminity.
My favorite for a long time were Peach Girl and I Love You. The main character in peach girl Momo reacted in organic ways, and I loved Okayasu by the end. Even flawed, they felt relatable. In I love you, I remember Yamato as sweet to the girl.
This was absolutely fantastic. Oh such a great video. Another issue with shojou manga is the age gaps in some of the stories, like eg tsubaki Chou lonely planet among, faster than a kiss etc. when I was younger I realized that there is something off about this theme. I also wanna highlight some amazing shoujos with great make leads, hopefully these aren’t Joseis cuz thinking now the stories are just amazingly written: Mars, Skip Beat! (All time favorite), I wanna say Tokyo crazy paradise but ryuji was out of pocket sometimes but still love it, love in the mask 😢😢😢. Also I love reading cheesy romance isekai webtoons and reading the guys comments in the comment section.
Hak and Usui are my boisssss and I didn't realize that when I was younger but it was definitely bc they didn't fit the mold of the average asshole shoujo guy (and bc the girls that they were falling for were also awesome and strong).
1) thanks for this video, I love it a bunch 💜💜💜 2) Having consumed a bunch of your content in the past week, I just saw you in one of FD Signifier’s b-sides and went ‘!!!!!!!! IT’S THE GUY WITH THE GREAT ANIME TAKES’ It genuinely felt like a celebrity sighting 😂
I finally figured out what the difference is for me ! Most anime male characters are the main characters that usually means we see everything through a male perspective. In turn we get a lot of perversion and one dimensional female characters. Shoujo is a usually female lead so we get romance and friendship in a very different light. We also get an insight into what kind of love girls want.
16:57 damn.. the harshest burn. Shout outs to younger me who had to learn the hard way not to exalt mediocre dude attention and conflate it for genuine care and affection. RIP
I've seen dozens of women my age (mid to late 20s and up) say they used to favor Kyo over Yuki in Fruits Basket, but as they've grown older, they now prefer Yuki being the stable sweetheart over Kyo the angry bad boy. Maybe when you're younger, you wanna have fun and experiment. But when you're older, you want to settle down do the more "femme" men are more attractive
True, happens to dating with women as well, they choose at first the "bad boys", then when their biological clock ticks, they want the "good men" as their husbands to have a family with.
This. As someone who watched Fruits Basket for the first time in my 20s, I was confused as to why she ended up with Kyo, when sweet Yuki was right there the entire time. Like, Tohru, ma'am, what are you doing?...😂
This is interesting.. as I grew older I interpreted Yuki as the emotionally unavailable one but it’s been many years since I’ve last watched it. I guess it’s time to refresh lol
I watched Fruits Basket 2 years ago when I was 19 and Yuki was and still is my favourite ❤ not only as a love interest but also as a character. I am fond of Kyo too but Yuki is just awesome❤❤❤❤
I was under the impression shoujo was almost solely a genre upheld by female authors, huh. Somehow when I was blasting through shoujo series it seems I managed to stay with better aging series like Yona of the Dawn, Kamisama Kiss and Snow White with the Red Hair (where the romance is healthy and boundaries are... maintained within reason of the setting) After/during that I drifted more towards otome games and anime, for better and mostly for worse
I loved watching this! perhaps you should make another video on shoujo in the future? in the last few years there have been some interesting mangas with good male lead representations as welll. like a sign of affection and the ice guy and his cool female colleague.
I could never stomach Hana Yori Dango, even when I remembered it being in all the rage back then. I felt the bullying and harassment was too cruel and brutal for my 10 year old brain, and I found it really disturbing. Never got the hype, and still don't do, though I guess it was revolutionary in the Shoujo sphere from big things to little things like the F4. So whilst there are manga/anime like Hana Yori Dango which are problematic, there are lot's of great Shoujo that depict healthy characters and relationship dynamics - like Akatsuki no Yona like mentioned :)
Boys over flowers haha. I remember when the fl got hooked up to a car by her wrists and dragged and the ml just walked away as she begged him to believe her that she didnt cheat on him. What a series.
I think what balanced out hana yori dango is everyone is kinda a-holeish lol. Can't believe my brain blocked out the more questionable parts of the manga and only remembered the fluff in later chapters
I wonder if I can give some perspective on Boys Over Flowers - I was well into adulthood when it came to America with an English Dub/Sub. The way Viz translated it was interesting - the dub was very western, the sub was closer to what they were actually saying. The triangle of Tsukasa/Rui/Tsukushi reminded many of that feeling in high school when you are with people who are trying to act like adults, but have the mind of children. This is Tsukasa and Rui, and Tsukushi (as mature as she seems) is the same... she is drawn to Rui because he seems safe, familiar, etc. She rejects Tsukasa because he seems like an obvious "bad boy" with his demands and sadism. Then the story slowly turns this on its ear as Tsukasa grows as a person. At the time, there still wasn't a lot of readily available anime in the American market, so this story was a big fish in a small pond - very few stories were like this. I realize it was also popular in Japan (and elsewhere) with many age groups, and I think it has a lot to do with people seeing a past shade of themselves and wanting to see if Tsukushi can figure a way out of it. We all remember being dumb when we were that age, so we're rooting for her to make it, for Tsukasa to grow beyond his rage, for Rui to be honest, etc. Not sure if that helped, but just a "historical" perspective. :D
I love your perspective on the series! I only grew up with what was on Toonami growing up, so I've been revisiting older anime series. If I remember correctly, Boys Over Flowers has a record for the most sold shoujo manga.
And to give some perspective on the Japanese side of things, think about the typical shojo male leads during the period Boys Over Flowers started (in the early 90s). Most of the shojo male love interests during this era were basically perfect (handsome, intelligent, etc.) but also mysterious, cold and hard to read, like Naoki from Itazura na Kiss, Yuu from Marmalade Boy and Arima from Kare Kano. Tsukasa, by contrast, was often goofy (especially his hairstyle), he misspeaks all of the time, and, unlike other male shojo manga leads, he wears his love for Tsukushi on his sleeve. He likely must have felt like a breath of fresh air for shojo readers at this time, and I have a theory that Boys Over Flowers would not have lasted as long as it did or have the legacy it did if author Yoko Kamio had put Rui and Tsukushi together as she originally intended instead of Tsukushi and Tsukasa.
@@crystallewis5902 Ooh I did not know she had intended Rui and Tsukushi to be together. I agree, that would have seemed very predictable and uninteresting. I think Tsukasa has a reason to be a little emotionally stunted, and I love watching his transformation.
I remember I was obsessed with the guy from wolf girl black prince. No idea why. He is absolutely horrible to that girl. HOWEVER, when I tell you this show was watched 1000 times by me I’m not exaggerating. I come back to it every year and get more and more pissed off. But it’s a fun watch and I’ll always hold it dear 😭
I have stopped reading shoujo manga since 2014, it felt like a trend was going on with jerk male leads. In recent years, I've been reading mature romance manga (would you call these josei?) on Erenta and got very into it, because the male leads genuinely care and love the MC, I was so happy. Too bad the stories are mostly 2 volumes :< I still love shoujo, reading A sign of affection reminded me it has something special. I really want to get back and find new titles with good, interesting male leads! Toxic ones can die in a fire lol
I've gotten bored of shoujo and otome boy characters tbh~ and a lot of them look the same and that makes me double bored~~ like I did all the shoujo thing when I was a teen, but now that I'm 30, it just don't hit for me. doesn't help that most of the characters are minors as well. also that bully type personality where the girl is relentlessly abused and bullied by the boys just ain't cute to me anymore.
Shoujo was the backbone of how Berserk ended up the way it is. None of that sweet Golden age drama would have worked out that way if Miura was not out there reading some of the queerest manga available at the time.
@@hello-gx6oi I mean how did it influence exactly? Other than maybe Griffith being a bishounen? I'd like to see the source if possible. What queer manga was he reading?
I saw the face of the guy from Boys Over Flowers and came to say "fuck you, Tsukasa", but stayed for the actual video. Thank you, random stranger for discussing this aspect of Shoujo. "Shoujo romance is wishfulfilment" - so is shounen everything, and shoujo doesn't even fulfil my wishes. I just wanna compassionate guy who is also a screw up, but isn't particularly violent or careless, just... human. So how would it be wishfulfilment for me to watch any of the shoujos with guys who treat their gals like trash, nevermind everyone else? At best I'll lower the bar for a villain who despite being a villain also deeply cares for their loved ones and isn't an ass to them.
1:00 It's almost like authors who are write romance focused stories has to write dynamic and engaging love-interests, otherwise the entire narrative kinda falls apart. A battle shounen can get away trash love interest and opposite gender writting.
The visuals are amazing! All the pictures and videos are great and you speak very clearly, the only thing I think you maybe could improve on is using your body language more. Like maybe motioning with your hand/hands more!
The wolf girl and black prince manga is awful for me In the anime kouya has a genuine development Well he is not vulnerable much but he was vulnerable at times with her And I don't think he saw his time with her as a chore and he did something he viewed as "embarrassing" just to make her happy And he was protective of her as well I personally liked the anime and I liked erica and his development but in the manga ehhh I think the video showed it all However I won't put kouya in the same tier as tsukasa (at least not the one in the anime or manga) In the anime kouya 's behavior was called out multiple times and he was seen as in the wrong But tsukasa uhh I cannot say the same for him
When I was younger I loved Shounen don't get me wrong I still love some a lot but I've lost interest. I hate the power fantasy and sexism found in a lot of shounen. I love the art style and emotions found in shojo ^_^
5:00 am i misunderstanding your meaning? I'm a bit confused what you meant by lolicon boom and also rumiko takahashi is a woman? also i was under the inmpression lolicon meant sexualized little girls so i was a bit confused what this is meaning
I really loved Boys over flowers when I was a really young kid. I did have a crush on him until I was much older and didnt like his actions towards the female protagonist and now like just hate him so much. Hot Gimmick was another one. Like I am so surprised how I never noticed it as a young teen and now I am just like how did I never notice this? The worst is the Diabolick Lovers anime.
I hate romance anime where the guys are bullies. I love the new anime out rn Skip and Loafer where the guy is actually a DREAM. He’s so kind, humble, and gentle! I want more romance mangas like that!
Yes, shoujo male characters should be like him
Funny since I love the enemies to lovers trope. Not even that, I love the "bad guy falls for good girl" in general.
I have a recommendation
It's called " your my cutie"
yona of the dawn definitely deserved more hype, it was ahead of its time
p.s. red looks fab on you, srsly!!
The anime was really good but ehh as the manga progress the rmore it emphasizes how Hak and Yohna were meant to be leaning towards fate and ehhh it kinda defeats the natural build up
I actually started liking it less the more dominant/jealous Hak was. Kinda destroyed the ship for me, i felt like he may be way too obsessive.
I feel it’s a bit late to have yona next season, I remember waiting for it‘s next season when I was in primary or middle school. And til now I am already second year in uni.
@@zweipinguine its kinda funny when one of the dragons comment on how Hak would probably keep the princess locked up. Then they covered it up with Hak saying something like I would never do that, I would want the world to see you 😂😂 The more of the manga continued, the less of it I liked it. They made Hak superhuman... yes hes talented but shouldn't stand equal footing to the other dragons. Its just weird, i didnt like were it was heading. I will say the Anime did a better job then the manga.
because of Son Hak and a few failed relationships, my standards are so high, I feel like ill just be alone forever lol
Excellent video! As I have gotten older I have been seeking out anime with non-toxic male leads. It's sad to think of how I watched so much toxicity at a young age. I really want to cleanse my subconscious mind of that nonsense and read about men who are able to have masculinity and femininity exist within themselves simultaneously in a healthy way.
Funny enough I can and have watched so many toxic anime/manga without problem but I always had a big problem if it's with real people. That's why I never liked a lot of k-/j-dramas
The only romance anime I know where the male leads aren't toxic is just kimi ni todoke lol
How was snowwhite with the red hair male lead toxic?? I LOVED that story! The male was masculine but not toxic which was perfect!
@@BluueCheesehe's not most of the male characters in that anime aren't that's part of what makes it so good.
dont become a postmodernist
Kimi ni Todeke and Princess Jellyfish are also fantastic examples. Thank you for making this video too!
‘High School Debut’ is another example of a good shoujo romance with a great male lead.
Also from the same author, there’s My Love Story, where the shoujo’s MC is a big burly guy.
@@trika91 Haven't picked up 'High School Debut', but I finished 'My Love Story' a couple of weeks ago. It was amazing! The synergy with the cast was refreshing.
Ore monogatari it's another good option :3
I love princess jellyfish, SO underrated!
I love princess jellyfish!!!
The thing I did like about Boys Over Flowers was that Tsukushi started developing feelings for Tsukasa AFTER he started growing as a person and being more kind and considerate toward her. But then as the story goes on its like the author kept flip flopping over their relationship, specifically having Tsukasa's character development going back and forth. Not to mention how the narrative was actually treating Tsukasa's attempted assault of Tsukushi fairly seriously only to...sort of just hand wave it as not a big deal? I'm all for flawed characters and complicated relationships but there has to be some consistency, especially when it comes to dealing with very real, very serious subjects, like SA and trauma.
Yes, I totally agree Mindy. Tsukasa had a MAJOR identity crisis 😅
@@itsbasicboi I am glad adaptations tend to make his character less violent, more outwardly kind/comedic, or omit things like the attempted SA, but the anime/manga will still always have a special place in my heart ❤
Yeah, I also like how the MC initially didn't take anyone's shit... but then progressively, it's like she completely loses her will. And sure, admittedly, bullying can do that to you, it's just... so disappointing to see and it doesn't feel very enouraging or inspirational to me, who was also bullied.
And yeah, the SA was just... too much. It's hard for me to like a character after they did something like that, and the constant flipflopping did not help the matter.
Its amazing how you're analysing it this much lmfao. I just think it's the time period and the sexist climate surrounding entertainment that makes these older shoujo so damn problematic. It's better to just turn your brain off when dealing with boys over flowers, itazura kiss and the like.
@@js66613 she was goddamn amazing for like 3 episodes. Her downfall started with her crush on the violin guy.
Both Kyo and Yuki are some of my favorite male leads in any anime! I'd honestly argue Kyo is the epitome of "Tsundere character done right" ngl. The way he always encourages Tohru to speak up about her problems is so heart warming! And ofc Yuki, has imo by far the best character writing in Fruits Basket! Such an amazing and kind hearted soul he is, love him!
One of my fave shojo boys is Otani from lovely complex. I love how he treated everyone the same esp when it came to seiko (a p well written trans character). I still think about my personal relationships in terms of crab and ume.
Yea lovely complex really good.
Agreed Otani was awesome. The other layer being his height he in the end doesn't disway him his pursuits
lovely complex is the best ❤❤
Man, I wish there was an English dub for it. It sounds interesting, but since I tend to multitask when watching anime, I'd feel more of an incentive to watch it if it were dubbed.
yesss lovely complex will always have a place in my heart:’) risa also works really hard to get otani to notice her and them finally getting together feels earned
boys over flowers was insane i'm surprised more people don't talk about the school basically being full of psychopaths for no reason just because they heard rumors and do whatever tsukasa says and then also about how much tsukasa hits women including tsukushi (also forcing himself upon her) and yet somehow we're supposed to believe tsukushi falls for him lol
Well, in the manga happens a lot more before she falls for him...
Omg I hate him so much while watching the show
I preferred the Korean drama. I found it through the manga and anime so there’s nostalgia there but I feel the drama does way a better job. I feel like the author could’ve done a whole lot with the characters and story but I think the times had too big of an impact on it
I remember feeling physically ill when I was reading hot gimmick. I'm not sure how to describe it but I felt a visceral reaction every time one of the male characters did anything. The worst part was that I only read it because I was looking for josei recommendations and was told that it was really emotional and deep.
The first time I had contact with hot gimmick was with the Netflix live action version: at the first moments of the movie with that little bitch insulting the girl and also basically with every single interaction of the two I literally fumed with rage. I immediately looked up spoilers to know if the ml would eventually die or something and stopped watching when I descovered that he was actually the ml
Yeah. I get you, it was like every josei was like this with some male character been abusive!
Hot Gimmick was trash and not even the guilty pleasure type. No redeeming characteristics whatsoever. I tried to stick it out hoping dude would get better or get lost. Didn’t finish it. Him slapping her was the last straw that made me toss that book across the room. Even thinking about it now makes me upset.
only know it from Kennie JD's reaction video to the live action movie but damn, it's worse than Wolf Girl and Black Prince
@@EleiyaUmei I loved her video on it but she was right it is absolutely awful
I don't understand why kindness is considered to be feminine. Protectiveness which is a key trait of traditional masculinity is a manifestation or display of kindness.
Hm…I wish that more male shoujo characters were like Noé Archiviste (from Case Study of Vanitas)and Makoto Tachibana (from the Free franchise): men that were strong yet sweet, sensitive, and somewhat naive individuals while being extremely smart and emotionally invested in the people around them. But that’s just me. Feel free to give me recommendations for shoujo manga that have that character type if you have some.
I hope you've read Akagami no Shirayukihime (Snow White with Red Hair) because the main pair is so sweet and healthy they gave me cavities. They communicate their needs and wants with each other and they trust each other to be competent in their own fields.
True
Princess Jellyfish is a must for me! I ate that manga up when I was a kid and also the series promotes body positivity in an amazing and lighthearted way.
Edit: Would also recommend Kaitou Saint Tail because the anime and manga portrays healthy relationships and I love the healthy marriage of the femc's parents.
@@ririmagallanes1201 I love Princess Jelly~!!
Noe my boyyy 🥹🥹🥹🥹
The worst case of toxic men being romanticised is definitely diabolic lovers... MY GOD every men in that series is an embodiment of a toxic trait it's ridiculous 💀
Being portrayed in a feminised manner, it shows the dichotomy of female soft appearances and agressive male traits :/
lmao I can't with the way the female lead was portrayed... imo she lacked agency and was weak and submissive
That was for sure it's own can of worms but been an otome with that kind of themes the anime as always is marketing and had to give samples of what the vibe will be... still for sure the kind of game you only pick if you vibe with reading all that
I mean... It wasn't even a shoujo to begin with, it was an otome game.
It was meant to be that way as a "fetish" tho? It was catered specifically for more masochistic women who like vampires? It was never meant to be wholesome, the toxicity is the whole selling point.
I mean, it’s a Dark Otome game but ok 😅
I think...I'm gonna have to read Yona of the Dawn.
Yes please do!
I would definitely recommend it. I started reading this manga in middle school and I'm graduating with a college bachelor's degree in a month currently . I still read the manga, and it's crazy how it's still not finished. I am disappointed they never went further with the anime, but maybe someday. There are a lot of funny moments I really enjoy.
You should it really IS great!✨️
It's so amazing you wont regret it
It's the best!!
I like this there are some good points. I never liked bad-tempered men. Everytime I watched shoujo I would pay close attention to the guy. If he was rude and abusive I just couldn't watch it. I could only watch it unless the intent of the shoujo was to do a character deconstruction and critique you know if it was actually self-aware.
The complexities of men reading and loving Shojo- some for alternate versions of escapism and some for less wholesome reasons (unfortunately) is a take I’ve never seen people bring up before. Thank you for bringing this to light and for this video!
Gayyyyy
I read about 3 chapters of Wolf Girl and Black Prince and went, "This is toxic... No thanks!" Glad to know I haven't missed anything. But I'm also an adult... Scary thinking about young girls reading it and thinking it's "romantic"....
That’s basically every shoujo series
@@BurningRubber454lol not all shoujo are high school romance, despite being majority lol. There's shoujo where romance is minor or even none at all, it's all depends on the genre. Even not all romance shoujo is the same, I mean look at A Sign of Affection or A Condition Called Love and compare it to Boys Over Flowers or Wolf Girl & Black Prince like in this video.
@@gracequeeney3399 that’s like saying
Not all josei,reverse harem, BL series objectify men
This is a great video and I really love the analysis of the more toxic men in shojou! As a slim, more emotionally vulnerable, and "pretty" rather than "masculine" guy, I find shoujo to be a genre of comfort because I can actually connect with the male characters of desire depicted. I always felt like I was distant from the western hyper-masculine archetype of what a man should be and it really affected my self-esteem in my teens. Seeing the softer depiction of men in shoujo has helped me become a lot more comfortable with who I am as I 'm navigating my early 20s and it makes me feel sad for those who are trying to conform to the toxic " ideal" that the majority of men think that should be.
Where is this type of man irl? I actually had a group of regular males interrogate me and the validity of my taste in men. I like feminine, pretty men. The girlier, the better. I also like masculine, 'butch' women. The standard males were not having it at all. They found the idea very amusing. Honestly, I don't think my tastes are that uncommon. (Maybe the oddly specific bisexuality is a bit odd.) It's just that society shames those of us who think this way, sometimes to the point that we hide our true interests. Nobody laughs at/ridicules 'standard males' for stating their types. But when I say mine, it's like circus city.
'Regular males' was meant to be in quotes. They're not regular imho, they're weird. But in society, they're considered normal men, so.
This 100% makes me think of Playful Kiss. So many times I wanted to punch the male lead’s face. Also, why is it that the female characters in early 2000s manga/anime either have no personality, are far too aggressive or are just there to cause issues?
YESS!!! I watched it until the arc where they were working as a Nurse and Doctor when married when I got to a point where I couldn't stomach all the red flags in their relationship, primarily due to that arsehole male lead.
i hated that anime, i couldn't stand any of the leads. i thought the premise was interesting but both were insufferable and didn't grow a bit
I still love that anime, but I absolutely agree with you. It’s needs a whole revamp.
The manga is better. They butchered Naoki to sell him as a spoiled and frivolous man. He goes through much more development and so does Kotoko (despite the fact that most of her character is getting into situations because she follows Naoki to the end of the world. I still found her adorable.)
Hahaha I thought this video was gonna be about all the lovely, well-adjusted, supportive boyfriends in shoujo. My man really picked the three worst male shoujo protags (other than Hak, Hak is bae). But it’s good to know men like shoujo??? I wasn’t aware of this
finally, thank you for uploading this. I've been telling my girlfriends to watch or read more shoujo bc those male characters are typically more tender and sweet, overall positive, image of a male lover/friend
How sweet...❤
I SEE HAK IN THE THUMBNAIL AND I CLICK!!
Same here
My not well lit phone showed 3 boys and the darkness. I laughed and said "would this be Hak ?" And at a better angle, it was, lol.
And so, I clicked too
Bro is literally the definition of a green flag with a realistic touch and I absolutely love him
@@anaserratails4892 say it louder for the people in the back
say i love you anime felt really rushed to me, i even noticed some parts of the animation were drawn a little off.. the manga was much better with the story delivery and pacing imo, the character development is much more prevalent and the conflicts are resolved quite well too! u should definitely give it a read :))
I'm sorry this is off topic but is your pfp an artem wing plushie?😆
(fellow attorney?👀👀)
Great analysis! While the topic is more on romantic shoujo, horror shoujo is only an influential genre that not many people know about as well. Even Junji Ito, the master of horror also started as a shoujo manaka with his Tomie series. Shoujo can be for everyone!
For whatever reason I always feel more attracted or connected to men in shounen or seinen instead of shoujo
That’s valid I think it really just comes down to personal taste in men lol
Same as they tend to have more character .
Valid though. I personally adore male characters from seinen romance mangas!
that's a valid take! if i had to guess it has something to do with the way they are characterized in shounen/seinen vs shoujo/josei
@@xmanarx2614 I think it depends, because woman in shonen are usually written bad, they have no personality, are made for fan service, don’t have a big point in plot. While when men written In shoujo for me are way better
This is a simple comment to proclaim my love for Yona of the Dawn and for this channel ❤
Idk when I clicked the video I thought it was gonna be about the really lovely boys of shoujo, not all the weird ones haha. Still a nice video but I'm not sure if it all linked that well together. Especially with the first part I got interested in how men react to the more sweeter protrayal of guys, but then it went to all the problematic ones haha. But nice video! Found the first part so interesting!
Red is definitely your colour, looks great 👌🏻
I do got to say as a hardcore yona of the dawn fan I feel like the common description of yona of the dawn just doesn't fit because of what is going on currently in the manga... don't read further if you don't want spoilers and another thing this is gonna take a while to read lol so you might wanna sit down and grab a snack XD
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.so in the manga and I'm pretty sure the anime too, zeno asks yona if she wanted revenge against su-won, she didn't know how to respond to ( no one really did since no one excepted zeno to ask that question) yona mentions to ik-soo that she couldn't draw the sword referring to when su-won hide her from the sky tribe guards back in port awa (hak does overhear this conversation)
so as time progress yona would eventually come across su-won this doesn't happen until yona is in the water tribe (this is after the fire tribe ark where we see Kan Tae- jun again {the guy who pulled yona's hair he does become a better person so worry not} ) , both yona and su-won are shocked to see each other again, and yona does struggle to keep her composer as she is some what emotionally distressed through out the time they are near each other (hak is not present in these scenes) however yona shows no interest in killing su-won as same with su-won not wanting to kill her either, su-won even goes out of his way to warn yona not do something for it is dangerous, which easily leaves us to believe that he never truly wanted her dead in the first place.
hak on the other hand when he finally saw su-won he was filled with a blinding rage to a point it didn't matter who was in his way jae- ha tried to stop hak by even kicking him in the face but that didn't stop him as he then attacked jae- ha also, yona's voice was the only one to reach him to calm him down because hak was pretty injured during these scenes,
I don't plan on going farther into this part of the plot cause you need to read the manga because it's an amazing series but following hak's feelings
hak has always loved yona but at one point he stop thinking "i want her to be mine, i want her to notice me" being due to unrequited love, we see this in a flash back after yona's confession to hak, he just wanted yona to be happy, ( i do appreciate that the writer did take her time with yona developing feelings for hak and not her just like WELP SU-WON AIN'T AN OPTION, HAK IT IS {not that su-won should ever be an option})
so true! my girl yona just wants to help people at this point, getting revenge against su-won is something that she no longer cares about
I’m so happy finding more fans! I was so happy when she finally confessed cuz that (to me) that he could finally stop killing his feelings (which is bad for you). Cant wait to see how it ends!
Ngl I was kinda mad she didn’t at least try to go for suwons neck fr. Before we knew as much as suwon did.
@@PeyloBeauty I understand how you feel and Yona does mention her feelings regarding wanting revenge or not in the manga at chapter 110
@@theloverofnothing7120 always love coming across new Yona of the dawn fans also
Another great video! Your videos always make me think and really adds to treating shoujo as works of art and depictions into society and relationships that are overlooked.
I’ve always felt so icky about Boys Over Flowers and how degrading the original is to the main character. And could not bring myself to watch Wolf Girl and Black Prince, because girl treat yourself better!!
Shoujo is one of my favorite genres, but I prefer "mid-20s love in college or work"
It makes me mad that kind-heartedness is considered feminine
Here my list of « healthy » shojo boys (please note that I don’t pretend to know everything about shojo and I didn’t watch all the shojo manga that existed. And also please excuse my English level) :
1. Shota Kazehaya from Kimi ni Todoke : he is and will probably stay one of my always favorite healthy shojo boy. Today I think it become easier to find sweet boy in shojos like Shota Kazeyaha but he will always be the first example that appear to me when it comes to a sweet boy.
2. Hak from Akatsuki no Yona : my gentle and fierce god Hak…(yeah I know I’m a fangirl XD). But seriously please do not take into account the first interactions he had with the female lead Yona because he only use the teasing to hide his true feelings for her. Generally speaking Hak is supportive of Yona, he’s excited to see her becoming stronger and even if he constantly fears for her safety he will always respect her own decisions and gladly follows her during her journey. That’s a real man !
3. Nagi Itsuomi from a sign of affection : I adore the lovely and modern couple he forms with the heroine. Itsuomi is a honest and open-minded boy who deeply value communication.
4. Miyamura Izumi from Horimiya : Just like the main couple in "a sign of affection", Izumi and the heroine both make a sweet and modern couple.
5. Kyo Sohma from Fruits Basket (2019) : Even if I wasn’t a big fan of Kyo at first (I’m generally not a fan of Tsundere boy) he really grows on me near the end of the story. He is supportive of Tohru and help her to express her self-doubts and fears.
6. Takasu Ryûji from Toradora! : Speaking of tsundere trope, here’s a kind boy and a tsundere girl ! Ryuji, despite his looks, is sweet and always willing to support his friends and the female lead. Even if the main couple both have a crush on another person at first, their friendship/partnership will soon turn into something more.
7. Shall Fen Shall from Sugar Apple Fairy Tale : I really hesitated to put this one on the list…not because Shall is « toxic » to Anne but more because he’s at first quite hostile toward her. But his hostility and hate for human beings is « justify » considering the whole context of the story (that take place in a world in which faeries are ensclaved by humans). So yes expect a very sarcastic fairy who will at the beginning try to make the heroine uncomfortable and push her bottoms to prove the hypocrisy of the situation. Fortunately this attitude will only last during the first 3 / 4 episodes (out of 24) and rather quickly Shall will be supportive of Anne and respect her decisions (even if he will sometimes call her « stupid » which pissed me off a little,... just a little lol). So to conclude : if you’re looking for an acceptable « ennemies / opposite side » (kind of) to « friends » to « lovers » (kind of) relationship, this one is for you !
Honorable mentions (because I still didn’t watch them but heard some good things about them) :
Rascal does not dream of bunny girl senpai
Wotakoi
My happy mariage
The bibliophile princess
Skip and Loafer
Akagami no Shirayukihime
If you think of others sweet and healthy relationship, please do not hesitated to tell me 😊
Amazing video!! I RUclipsd “Shojo Iceberg” and I saw your playlist for video essays. I love your editing and objective analysis. Your demeanor is super welcoming as well :). I have a great interest cause I went thru 3 years of therapy to understand myself and now I’m understanding my own masculinity (also courtesy of watching a ton of PsychologyInSeattle). I dropped a like and will be watching more of your videos!
This was so interesting, and something that came to mind as I watched it (though a bit off topic) was how there’s anime like Horimiya that have traits like shojo but is regarded as shonen, I think due to the target audience, which can be applied to how the characters are written (in this case male leads) but for a separate demographic.
the Kairi slander had me hahaha XD been ages since I watched Peach Girl and
all I remember was being so frustrated with the drama. Great video! Def like learning a new retrospective of shojo
Maybe I have to rewatch Say I Love You because I honestly remember it being kinda misogynystic with the portrayal and treatment of the female characters outside the protagonist. Yona Of The Dawn seriously deserved more seasons though.
kimi ni todoke is by far my favorite shojo of all time!
I found ur channel on accident and whew thank heavens love seeing ppl who speak about more shoujo stuff
There are tons of fluffy romance shoujo anime out there with normal ml. People who don't like red flag male leads aren't supposed to watch this type of dark romance anime. These are specifically made for red flag ml lovers like us.
this
these are both older series, but inuyasha and the vision of escaflowne have great romances between the main protags. Both with good female leads and the love interest being non toxic and having good character development. I'd recommend them to anyone who wants a series with good action/adventure but also good romance
I mean, if there was a "general audience" genre in manganime, Inu Yasha definitely would qualify for it. The action is pretty Shounen-typical, while the romance and interpersonal relationships are more akin to Shoujo. Yona of the Dawn comes pretty close to that as well.
If theres something that really bothered me about Say I Love You, it’s that It felt like the ML changed for Yamato?? I thought she was fine the way she was, but she just kind of changed for him? Idk if that was ever covered in the manga, but it just really bothered me as kid bc she was one of the few ML that I related to as a kid. Maybe it would be different if I watched it now as an adult? But it just always bothered me as a kid.
i feel like she didnt change *for* him as much as she changed *becuase* of him. Like thanks to him she started opening herself more to new relationships and experience different things. At least thats the way i interpret it
@@暇なりな exactly this. It’s portrayed alot better in the manga I believe, especially as more characters that aren’t in the anime are introduced, Mei becomes alot better at not only recognising these changes internally, but also voicing them out as she gains alot of confidence as the story goes on and helps out other characters too. Legit one of my favourite shoujos ever 💯
0:43 OMG THATS THE TRAUMATIZING TWINCEST ANIME I WATCHED HERE ON RUclips WHEN I WAS 8
YES!! I recently got back into reading shoujo, and it's the best. No other types of stories i've read in the past seem to be able to tackle feelings around romance and friendship (among other things) as well as shoujo series are often able to. Not that it needs to always be romantic, plenty of shoujo series tackle way more than just that and succeed amazingly. So many amazing works go under peoples radars due to them being for a specific demographic, but SCREW THAT great stories are meant for everyone to enjoy.
12:03 Actually that's a korean drama. Taiwan does have our own adaptation tho, it's called Meteor Garden.
YOUR VOICE!!!! IT'S SO BUTTERY SMOOTH & CALMINGGGG
Greaat video! I'm glad people are speaking out for our boys. One thing though, the whole thing with Tsukasa IS that he is toxic, Youko Kamio has a long history of exploring trauma and society in her stories (see cat street for a more modern outlook) but the joke in Boys over flowers is that tsukasa AND rui are toxic in their own ways and tsukushi despises one and idealizes the other, until Tsukasa decides to change for her and rui doesn't and that's why Tsukasa """"wins"""" in the end, tsukasa starts putting others before himself and that's why Tsukushi likes him, he is flawed but he tries. At the time many didn't get the joke and thought domineering and assertive was the fantasy, instead of "you would rather change and leave your privilage behind for me" that was the actual fantasy in tsukasa's archetype. then again the anime cuts the story half way through so I'm not shocked.
This was really well done. This is also the first I’m even hearing of boys over flowers having multiple remakes, I’d only ever known the k drama and haaaaaaated the toxic bad boy angle.
Hak was 😍
Great video!! This brought back so many memories omg, I did not remember Wolf Girl and Balck Prince being that bad.
One of the worst offenders is probably Honey × Honey Drops, like, that was abuse and classism glorified. The premise is that the rich students of a school are assigned scholarship kids (called honeys) to become their helpers, and lots of them fall in love. But there is a very creepy master-servant dynamic going on and the honeys have to wear an earring with the flower/symbol of the master's family to signify the ownership. The ML literally sexually harasses the FL at the start. These characters are ~16 y/o. I was obsessed with this manga when I was 12, and it's super interesting to see how much of my understanding and expectations around romance were shaped by such toxic portrayals of masculinity and feminity.
19:25 I AM HERE FOR IT!!! Peach Girl is still in my top 10.
I’m so glad your video showed up on my feed! I liked the variety of shoujo you referenced and how you cited academic sources
yona of the dawn is my fav shojo
My favorite for a long time were Peach Girl and I Love You. The main character in peach girl Momo reacted in organic ways, and I loved Okayasu by the end. Even flawed, they felt relatable.
In I love you, I remember Yamato as sweet to the girl.
This was absolutely fantastic. Oh such a great video. Another issue with shojou manga is the age gaps in some of the stories, like eg tsubaki Chou lonely planet among, faster than a kiss etc. when I was younger I realized that there is something off about this theme. I also wanna highlight some amazing shoujos with great make leads, hopefully these aren’t Joseis cuz thinking now the stories are just amazingly written: Mars, Skip Beat! (All time favorite), I wanna say Tokyo crazy paradise but ryuji was out of pocket sometimes but still love it, love in the mask 😢😢😢. Also I love reading cheesy romance isekai webtoons and reading the guys comments in the comment section.
kazehaya, zen, junta & tsukasa, and so many characters from yona of the dawn >>>>
oh and obi !
Hak and Usui are my boisssss and I didn't realize that when I was younger but it was definitely bc they didn't fit the mold of the average asshole shoujo guy (and bc the girls that they were falling for were also awesome and strong).
1) thanks for this video, I love it a bunch 💜💜💜 2) Having consumed a bunch of your content in the past week, I just saw you in one of FD Signifier’s b-sides and went ‘!!!!!!!! IT’S THE GUY WITH THE GREAT ANIME TAKES’ It genuinely felt like a celebrity sighting 😂
this was a really well made video, I love listening to these types of videos as I draw and this video was perfect
Love your videos!
I finally figured out what the difference is for me ! Most anime male characters are the main characters that usually means we see everything through a male perspective. In turn we get a lot of perversion and one dimensional female characters. Shoujo is a usually female lead so we get romance and friendship in a very different light. We also get an insight into what kind of love girls want.
THIS WAS SUCH AN INTERSTING WATCH!!! GREAT VIDEO!!
ahhh thank you inakyu !!!!
Wow what a great essay!
Boys over flowers is one of my all time favorite stories. I have watched every drama ever made about it. Most recent called F4 Thailand
16:57 damn.. the harshest burn.
Shout outs to younger me who had to learn the hard way not to exalt mediocre dude attention and conflate it for genuine care and affection. RIP
I've seen dozens of women my age (mid to late 20s and up) say they used to favor Kyo over Yuki in Fruits Basket, but as they've grown older, they now prefer Yuki being the stable sweetheart over Kyo the angry bad boy.
Maybe when you're younger, you wanna have fun and experiment. But when you're older, you want to settle down do the more "femme" men are more attractive
It’s more like Yuki had his shit together then Kyo ever did. Kyo was kind of a hot mess.
True, happens to dating with women as well, they choose at first the "bad boys", then when their biological clock ticks, they want the "good men" as their husbands to have a family with.
This. As someone who watched Fruits Basket for the first time in my 20s, I was confused as to why she ended up with Kyo, when sweet Yuki was right there the entire time. Like, Tohru, ma'am, what are you doing?...😂
This is interesting.. as I grew older I interpreted Yuki as the emotionally unavailable one but it’s been many years since I’ve last watched it. I guess it’s time to refresh lol
I watched Fruits Basket 2 years ago when I was 19 and Yuki was and still is my favourite ❤ not only as a love interest but also as a character. I am fond of Kyo too but Yuki is just awesome❤❤❤❤
currently dating a guy thats straight out of a shoujo lol. I joke with him all the time about it 😂
I was under the impression shoujo was almost solely a genre upheld by female authors, huh.
Somehow when I was blasting through shoujo series it seems I managed to stay with better aging series like Yona of the Dawn, Kamisama Kiss and Snow White with the Red Hair (where the romance is healthy and boundaries are... maintained within reason of the setting)
After/during that I drifted more towards otome games and anime, for better and mostly for worse
I loved watching this! perhaps you should make another video on shoujo in the future? in the last few years there have been some interesting mangas with good male lead representations as welll. like a sign of affection and the ice guy and his cool female colleague.
I could never stomach Hana Yori Dango, even when I remembered it being in all the rage back then. I felt the bullying and harassment was too cruel and brutal for my 10 year old brain, and I found it really disturbing. Never got the hype, and still don't do, though I guess it was revolutionary in the Shoujo sphere from big things to little things like the F4. So whilst there are manga/anime like Hana Yori Dango which are problematic, there are lot's of great Shoujo that depict healthy characters and relationship dynamics - like Akatsuki no Yona like mentioned :)
Boys over flowers haha. I remember when the fl got hooked up to a car by her wrists and dragged and the ml just walked away as she begged him to believe her that she didnt cheat on him. What a series.
Well done! I gotta check out more of your content!
I think what balanced out hana yori dango is everyone is kinda a-holeish lol. Can't believe my brain blocked out the more questionable parts of the manga and only remembered the fluff in later chapters
I wonder if I can give some perspective on Boys Over Flowers - I was well into adulthood when it came to America with an English Dub/Sub. The way Viz translated it was interesting - the dub was very western, the sub was closer to what they were actually saying. The triangle of Tsukasa/Rui/Tsukushi reminded many of that feeling in high school when you are with people who are trying to act like adults, but have the mind of children. This is Tsukasa and Rui, and Tsukushi (as mature as she seems) is the same... she is drawn to Rui because he seems safe, familiar, etc. She rejects Tsukasa because he seems like an obvious "bad boy" with his demands and sadism. Then the story slowly turns this on its ear as Tsukasa grows as a person. At the time, there still wasn't a lot of readily available anime in the American market, so this story was a big fish in a small pond - very few stories were like this. I realize it was also popular in Japan (and elsewhere) with many age groups, and I think it has a lot to do with people seeing a past shade of themselves and wanting to see if Tsukushi can figure a way out of it. We all remember being dumb when we were that age, so we're rooting for her to make it, for Tsukasa to grow beyond his rage, for Rui to be honest, etc. Not sure if that helped, but just a "historical" perspective. :D
I love your perspective on the series! I only grew up with what was on Toonami growing up, so I've been revisiting older anime series. If I remember correctly, Boys Over Flowers has a record for the most sold shoujo manga.
And to give some perspective on the Japanese side of things, think about the typical shojo male leads during the period Boys Over Flowers started (in the early 90s). Most of the shojo male love interests during this era were basically perfect (handsome, intelligent, etc.) but also mysterious, cold and hard to read, like Naoki from Itazura na Kiss, Yuu from Marmalade Boy and Arima from Kare Kano. Tsukasa, by contrast, was often goofy (especially his hairstyle), he misspeaks all of the time, and, unlike other male shojo manga leads, he wears his love for Tsukushi on his sleeve. He likely must have felt like a breath of fresh air for shojo readers at this time, and I have a theory that Boys Over Flowers would not have lasted as long as it did or have the legacy it did if author Yoko Kamio had put Rui and Tsukushi together as she originally intended instead of Tsukushi and Tsukasa.
@@crystallewis5902 Ooh I did not know she had intended Rui and Tsukushi to be together. I agree, that would have seemed very predictable and uninteresting. I think Tsukasa has a reason to be a little emotionally stunted, and I love watching his transformation.
I remember I was obsessed with the guy from wolf girl black prince. No idea why. He is absolutely horrible to that girl. HOWEVER, when I tell you this show was watched 1000 times by me I’m not exaggerating. I come back to it every year and get more and more pissed off. But it’s a fun watch and I’ll always hold it dear 😭
I'm happy about any shoujo main character as long as they're better than the main character of diabolic lovers.
I have stopped reading shoujo manga since 2014, it felt like a trend was going on with jerk male leads.
In recent years, I've been reading mature romance manga (would you call these josei?) on Erenta and got very into it, because the male leads genuinely care and love the MC, I was so happy. Too bad the stories are mostly 2 volumes :<
I still love shoujo, reading A sign of affection reminded me it has something special. I really want to get back and find new titles with good, interesting male leads! Toxic ones can die in a fire lol
.... I cant believe you showed a scene from that weird anime of sibling love 😖
OOooooh I thoroughly enjoyed that, leaving with a sub :D
I've gotten bored of shoujo and otome boy characters tbh~
and a lot of them look the same and that makes me double bored~~
like I did all the shoujo thing when I was a teen, but now that I'm 30, it just don't hit for me.
doesn't help that most of the characters are minors as well.
also that bully type personality where the girl is relentlessly abused and bullied by the boys just ain't cute to me anymore.
Shoujo was the backbone of how Berserk ended up the way it is. None of that sweet Golden age drama would have worked out that way if Miura was not out there reading some of the queerest manga available at the time.
What do you mean?
@@avvvvo7000 Shoujo has influenced Berserk which is a beloved dark fantasy manga
@@hello-gx6oi I mean how did it influence exactly? Other than maybe Griffith being a bishounen? I'd like to see the source if possible. What queer manga was he reading?
@@avvvvo7000 i forgot alot of info
But yeah things like romance, relationship and drama is improved because of the author reading Shoujo
I saw the face of the guy from Boys Over Flowers and came to say "fuck you, Tsukasa", but stayed for the actual video. Thank you, random stranger for discussing this aspect of Shoujo.
"Shoujo romance is wishfulfilment" - so is shounen everything, and shoujo doesn't even fulfil my wishes. I just wanna compassionate guy who is also a screw up, but isn't particularly violent or careless, just... human. So how would it be wishfulfilment for me to watch any of the shoujos with guys who treat their gals like trash, nevermind everyone else? At best I'll lower the bar for a villain who despite being a villain also deeply cares for their loved ones and isn't an ass to them.
Great video
I love psychological male mc more lol .They are crazy and Im crazy for them too .
A non toxic male protagonist in a shoujo manga? You clearly are talking about Takeo Gouda from Ore monogatari 💖💖✨️🌸
1:00 It's almost like authors who are write romance focused stories has to write dynamic and engaging love-interests, otherwise the entire narrative kinda falls apart. A battle shounen can get away trash love interest and opposite gender writting.
I really gotta pick up yona again
I'm dipping my toe into shojou, it's def new to a hetero cis guy like me. Your insight is super appreciated (and fascinating)
I am a white slavic dude and i watch and read shojo thankd you.
As a dude who did like Say I Love You when I saw it. I support the 'men like shoujo' message. 👍
😮Random, but I just realized that Meteor Garden was inspired by boy over flower 🌼
The visuals are amazing! All the pictures and videos are great and you speak very clearly, the only thing I think you maybe could improve on is using your body language more. Like maybe motioning with your hand/hands more!
WOLF GIRL AND BLACK PRINCE WAS SOOOO BAD! I was legit traumatized and I still am. Even though the intro slaps, it’s AWFUL!
ayyyye, Usui!
black wolf and black prince was just the author writing her kinks, you cannot convince me otherwise
Thank you for saying say I love you male character is okay. He seems like a mixture of green and red flags and overall didn't seem toxic
The wolf girl and black prince manga is awful for me
In the anime kouya has a genuine development
Well he is not vulnerable much but he was vulnerable at times with her
And I don't think he saw his time with her as a chore and he did something he viewed as "embarrassing" just to make her happy
And he was protective of her as well
I personally liked the anime and I liked erica and his development but in the manga ehhh
I think the video showed it all
However I won't put kouya in the same tier as tsukasa (at least not the one in the anime or manga)
In the anime kouya 's behavior was called out multiple times and he was seen as in the wrong
But tsukasa uhh I cannot say the same for him
I'm a simple man. I saw Hak, I clicked
More seriously, good video
When I was younger I loved Shounen don't get me wrong I still love some a lot but I've lost interest. I hate the power fantasy and sexism found in a lot of shounen. I love the art style and emotions found in shojo ^_^
I am a simple girl i see hak i click
5:00 am i misunderstanding your meaning? I'm a bit confused what you meant by lolicon boom and also rumiko takahashi is a woman? also i was under the inmpression lolicon meant sexualized little girls so i was a bit confused what this is meaning
I really loved Boys over flowers when I was a really young kid. I did have a crush on him until I was much older and didnt like his actions towards the female protagonist and now like just hate him so much.
Hot Gimmick was another one. Like I am so surprised how I never noticed it as a young teen and now I am just like how did I never notice this?
The worst is the Diabolick Lovers anime.