Probably the best Sawstop review video out there mate. Well done. Actually I’m not surprised they treated you like crap, you have less than 1000 subs. I reckon you would of had a great experience if you had a million subs. Hope you have many enjoyable years with it mate.
Thanks Vic, I really appreciate that and the saw is actually a joy to use. If i had a million subscribers they would have dropped a fully assembled and tuned up sawstop in my workshop for free haha.
Thanks Craig, I only focused on the "new saw experience" and have no regrets moving on because as they say, "The grass is always greener on the other side". The saw itself seems very good but just requires a lot of work to get to that point.
Here's my experience with the wings on my PCS that I received 10 months ago in the USA. Both of them have no gap whatsoever when mated to the top. However when bolted tight they lean ever so slightly down. This is actually what I was hoping for. I wouldn't expect the top to be perfectly flat without some adjustment, and this way the minor adjustment needed will create a very small gap on the bottom and not the top. The instructions have you use the rails to hold the wings in a flat position which I don't like. I wouldn't trust them to remain flat. Instead, I added paper thin shims in the bottom of the joint between the wings and the top until they were perfectly flat when bolted tight. I wouldn't expect them to come out of flat with this method as I would if only the rails were holding them up into the flat position. I'm very satisfied with how it turned out.
Thank you for the review. I am considering the smaller SawStop job site saw, and it was useful to see one of the few negative reviews. Your negative points seem a bit overblown, mostly having to do with shipping and issues with assembly. Nothing that I wouldn't really expect for a piece of equipment this heavy and complex. You indicated that the defective parts were replaced. You seem to hold SawStop to a very high standard because of its very high price compared to table saws lacking the safety feature. I will end up paying $1,000 (U.S.) or so more for those safety features--very small price to save some fingers. Nothing here contradicts the overall quality of the saw relative to others once it is assembled. I hope you enjoy the saw. If you should ever need the safety features, your assembly and shipping issues will pale in comparison to your well-being. Wishing you all the best.
I love my SawStop PCS. Fully boxed fence rail, flat table, no gap. Do you think any of your experiences were related to the 15% discount? I’ve always purchased SawStop and Festool from a local dealer that is full price, but delivers next day and will drive any replacement parts like brakes to me immediately. Service is a get what you pay for kind of deal.
Great Video. 100% agree it was a PIA to assemble. It took a while. I don't know that I had all of the problems that you had. What I do think is that hopefully this is my forever table saw. I love it and unless I become a full time woodworker, I can't imagine not having
I am considering buying a Sawstop saw. Thanks for your honest review. Sorry for the frustrating experience you had! Makes me rethink whether I want to deal with the headaches.
Thanks Sue, You can have issues with any brand but look at it this way, if you can get help, you have time and patience, the money, are safety conscious, and have considered that you need a dust extractor, the 15 amp power, outfeed table and the better base, as hidden costs, then this is a great saw. And when you have it tuned up and humming, it is joy to use and you can make beautiful work with it. I am not recommending that people don't buy this saw, just pointing out the "new sawstop experience" is not all roses like most other reviews make out. If i knew all this before buying my sawstop i would have known what to expect and would likely have had a satisfying experience.
@@Saw-IT The only reason I am considering the SawStop is because of the safety factor. While it is the most important factor (one of my fingers is worth $5,000), I don't know that I have the time, patience, and expertise to put everything together as you did. I currently have a Dewalt job site table saw (DWE7491RS) that I'm happy with, aside from the safety aspect. After watching some videos on the SawStop patents and their expiration, I think I'll wait until April 2024 and see if other companies will be able to enter the market. In the meantime, I will be very careful with my Dewalt! If the patents don't expire, then I will revisit the SawStop at that time. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
Mine came in a wooden crate with no damage. This was a great review, yet I absolutely love my saw. I bought a after market miter gauge, and I can't anyway to avoid some type of scratches to the table top.
Hi Marcus. The scratches on the top are a shame but it ends up being just part of the saw I guess. I wonder if gluing a bit of felt under it would have helped. The saw is growing on me, especially when i get clean and repeatable cuts all the time haha.
Many thanks for the review . . . at the moment I think a track saw has better quality engineering and more suited to my requirements. Several other reviews have also commented on major problems and poor SawStop engineering --- very pleased with other manufacturers will probable buy from them.
The Sawstop saw I bought was and is perfect. Quality is top notch. Other manufacturers probably have equal quality. That said, other manufacturers DO NOT have the safety feature blade brake. You have an accident on another saw, and you'll spend 10 to 12 thousand at the emergency room. IF they can repair the damage. Pretty easy decision: Sawstop.
Mat, I’m sorry you had this experience. I drove past about 6 different dealers to buy mine from one that had a great reputation. They really took good care of me with delivery and gave me free delivery. I agree the assembly is pretty intense, but now I feel like I really know most of my saw. Each time I use it I like it more and more. Hopefully you’ll feel the same once these issues get sorted. I am glad you got one, hopefully we both never need that safety feature. One bad thing is if Zombies attack, you can’t throw them on your running saw unless you take the time to turn off the safety devise.
Hi Drew, Oh yeah the zombies, never mind i have a lot of other sharp things in the workshop to throw them on lol. We have two dealers in AUS and one does the 15% discount so it was no real choice there. Sorry about the sob story, i could have just as easily changed the theme of the video and i am sure it is going to turn into the most loved tool in the workshop. Mat
I heard two complaints that were justified. The crappy mobile base that comes standard and the wings. The person who sold you the saw should have encouraged you to buy the industrial base. It's much more stable and gives you unlimited turning radius. The wings were a little wonky, but as long as the fit squarely and only that small bit was the issue, I would have let it go or tried to negotiate a over head dust collection setup. You loved the miter gauge, but I can tell you from my experience selling various table saws for several years each miter gauge that comes with any saw is the weak link to accuracy. The damage caused by the shipping company isn't on Sawstop, it's on the shipping company. And lastly, if had read the manual you would have known about the power ratings and the needed breaker.
Hello, thanks for your feedback, good thinking - I tried to negotiate for an outfeed table as compensation, but they don't negotiate, or I just started too high. So why then let it go and not demand perfect parts? They resisted until i made legal threats. Presumably shipping three hunks of steel 4100 miles from Brisbane back the manufacturer in Tiawan was a little financially distressing after all. The dealer said they were going to get them re-milled. (Lucky next customer lol) And lastly re the power ratings and required breaker in the SawStop manual.? I found nothing in the manual on this, other than it states that the Australian model requires an outlet to take a NEMA 6-15P plug. this is a 15 amp shaped plug and can only fit in my 15 amp socket (no brainer). The manual states that the saw draws 13 amps, and does not mention that the momentary startup current is closer to 50 amps. Therefore you need to have an industrial J type circuit breaker so that the power does not trip each time the saw powers on and spikes well over 15 amps. If you can find more on this in the manual i will tip my hat to you. Otherwise telling me i should have read the manual is a little strange because I had to find the circuit breaker information by asking other good users on forums who had the same issue. Sawstop apparently don't publish this information? Perhaps it might scare off potential buyers and to be fair a lot of other brands saws with big motors might also have the same characteristics.
@@Saw-IT Like you said in your last sentence other saws will have the same electrical requirements, heck they could have the same companies electric motors in their own brand. I guess I would have asked the dealer where I bought the saw the required electrical setup I needed.
Carbatec are not just simply a retailer for SawStop but the Australian Import Agents. This is why your complaint to SawStop was redirected back through to Carbatec as the buck literally stops and starts with them. I will let your direct experience and Carbatec’s track history speak for itself. P.S. Love your workbench build series.
Thank you Jimmy, that makes sense. I really want to make another bench, but for myself and made even better. This saw sure would sure help with that. !
You do realize any brand of saw you get delivered in a box is going to require assembly the only thing you really have a right to complain about were the cast iron wings. Most of the reviews I have watched say that the SS instructions and assembly are the best in the business.
A bit late, but I moved and I need to finally get the dust collection hose attached and to stay attached. Did you have trouble with it? I couldn't get it to stay on the short angled pipe on the shroud. If you had trouble and figured out something clever I'd love to know about it. Or, if you didn't I'd like to know that too. 😊
Hello mate. Great honest review and can absolutely see your frustration. I've admired that saw for a while and hadn't really seen anything negative about it until now so thank you for your honesty! Although I'm a few years away from a new saw at least, I'll definitely re watch this before making any decisions! Take care
Thanks Sam. the thing is, reviewers like James fixitfingers Yesterday are paid or others feel the need to justify their decision because it is a big purchase. Sorry i had a bad experience and that made me overly sensitive to all small negative aspects that otherwise could have been easily accepted and taken on the chin. Hey Carbatec are in NZ and probably have that 15% discount too.
@@Saw-IT not only are they in nz, they've opened a store less than a km from my house, dangerously close!! I agree too that bias can creep in, and no doubt your negative customer experience has muddied the water too.
It sounds like maybe you're not a cabinet saw type of guy. It's been almost 25 years since I bought my Delta Unisaw, and the assembly process was pretty much the same. Even down to one of the cast iron wings that drooped a bit before I used some brass shim stock to even it up. Heck I went through much of the same with the stationary thicknesser I just got, even including damage by the shipping company (forklift drivers are pressured to keep things moving no matter what). Some of the things that go with the territory with professional stationary power tools.
Good insight and yep pretty much the same. The only difference here is that there are a thousand YT videos praising how great the setup experience of this saw is and it is strongly marketed to ordinary hobbyists like me, so I felt like I was miss led. I could have put up with the myriad of nuisance points that I brought up and joined the ranks of praisers, but sawstop balked at rectifying my legitimate issues. I was going to do a direct comparison of the safety features compared to my last saw. broken fence, exposed electrical wires, the injury it did to my dad's hand. but looking at the footage it was obvious how the review needed to go. No home workshop hobbyist is a cabinet saw type of guy so I thought it is a fair review of the new sawstop experience. (I work in customer experience at my day job)
Hey bud hows it going? I have a saw stop t glide fence on my H&F saw. I'm wondering if you were to lay a straight along the white part of the fence, if there's a gap any where? On mine, both sides of fence are a slightly raised a bees dick 20mm from the out feed end. I was ripping jointed boards for a panel glue up and had straight on one side (the jointed side) and the opposite side (the ripped side) was straight until 300mm from the end of the timber. Every board had a bow in the same place.
Hi, My fence is dead flat all along. The white face plate can be adjusted or replaced. Ref page 15 www.sawstop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/CNS_T-Glide_Fence_System_Owners_Manual_Aug_08.pdf Over tightening the screws can make the surface concave.
Hey Matt I have been spoilt for Australian sawstop reviews today! Watched Mr fingers review earlier. Two very different experiences. Thanks for sharing. Hope that it gives you years of good service after you get everything sorted. Just a pain that it's not been a good experience to this point.
The message probably should be directed to the importer. They are probably responsible for all sales and support for your location. My experience with sawstop has been very good especially compared to some other manufacturers.
That is really good, this was my experience, and you being prepared will help ensure your experience is better. This saw tuned and setup is now fine, other brands no doubt have just as good or better quality saws but without the safety brake.
"Would I still bought a Sawstop if I knew all this beforehand and the answer is... probably YES!" 😂 i know that feeling and experienced that before with other companies. Also love your dry humor.. "basically a hose.. F that!" Subscribed!!!
Interesting observation, Powermatic could be better value. But don't take the 15% as something positive lol. I only mention it in the negative only review to highlight the markup fat in these saws. This Australian company deducts $975AU or $634US from recommended retail and apparently still makes a profit. You are entitled to bargain for a discount up to that amount to with your shop too.
I had the same problem with the integrated mobile base..... any tiny vibration and the saw would fall to the ground. I took the base back off my saw and brought it straight back to woodcraft and they gave me full credit toward the more robust base. They shouldn't even sell the integrated mobile base in its current form if it's so unreliable.
Thanks. Fortunately my workshop floor is smooth and it has not happened again moving it. I guess i just have to be careful i don't push it over a small wood chip or something lol
When it comes to tripping your breaker I'm not entirely surprised. They're made for the US market first lets be real and our 240v circuits usually start at 20a dual pole. But at the price most of these are going to be going into shops that are very unlikely to have less than a 20a single pole. Probably wasn't a concern so didn't get mentioned a lot.
Great review..so frustrating and disappointing when you are neglected as a valued customer. Im considering this saw but still assessing. Customer/after sales service is so important. Why cant these companies acknowledge and honour it.🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Thanks - If you are in the US you will get best service because that is probably the only country with an actual SawStop office. Here overseas you deal with a local distributer who imports it direct from Taiwan, so your mileage will vary. But i guess I was just unlucky. Since then, I have made several projects and love the saw. Now you know all the potential issues you shouldn't be disappointed haha.
Should be alright - I was unlucky with the damaged rail and defective wings but they ended up replacing them. Make sure you are a member of a woodworking club or men's shed to ask for that 15% discount. 😊
Mate, another good video. Very unfortunate about the sawstop. I have nowhere the money to buy one and I keep thinking about, is that the big machine I save up for. I run off a titron mk3 that I got second hand of fb. But of recent I'm thinking maybe just a dealt job site saw... but is that enough for fine wood working? One of your previous videos with the roubo, I've been hand jointing my workbench. Tops down, stretchers are square and the legs are nearly done. Your video gave me some good tips. Cheers again!
That is brilliant psyave and makes that bench video very rewarding for me. A job site saw can be used for fine woodworking for sure. My last one was a contractor style saw and it was more than adequate except for the faulty fence in the end. Check out @3x3CustomTamar she has used a jobsite saw for fine woodworking for years and made it work - check out her older videos though, ironically she has recently upgraded to a sawstop.
G'day Mat, well I had to pop on over and check this out now didn't I? ;) Not sure how you've flown under my radar for so long, always great to find another small Aussie Maker channel. You have made me very glad mine came in one single piece! 🤣🤣
Sir this was a great video. I didn’t think you were whining like some of the other commenters stated. People have different opinions and views and that’s okay. Not sure why people get so upset about differing opinions or feel offended because you wanted to share your views and thoughts? Anyways. You’ve got a good number of useful videos just subscribed!!
Thanks J Var blaze. If people say i am whining, i am whining, lol everyone's perception is different especially if you are a die hard Sawstop fan. I just filmed it and at the end I decided that i had enough negative aspects to make that a theme. I originally planed to focus on the amazing safety features compared to my last death trap saw haha. But everyone else does those type of sawstop videos. Thanks for Subscribing. Having viewers, including the critical ones is what drives me make better videos. One of the reasons for getting this particular saw was to reinvigorate my channel and motivate me to make more quality projects and that is working.
ahaha, I wasn't expecting a pyjama party in the workshop 😄 The wings are interesting, is it a fault or just how they are? ie, does that gap affect the cut or the assembly of the tool, or is it more that it looks shit every time you glance at it? To be clear though, for the cost of that model, I'd complain as well 😄Look forward to seeing what you make on it duder 👍
Hi Mario, Cut, assembly and safety of the tool were not affected. It came down to the fact that it would have bothered me forever. It was a pain for carbatec (and me) to replace the wings and the dented tglide fence tube but that is behind me now. Currently working on a video of a DIY dust arm. and making a wooden laundry basket as the next project. (something unique) Been hanging for more of your videos hope you and your family have been well and are ok etc.
Since Sawstop was sold I think to the same owners of Festool not completely sure, the quality of manufacturing and customer service has turned to sh$t as usual when these sales happen. I'm in the U S so I don't' know if is the same way or not. This makes me very sad because Sawstop has been one of the best built and safest saws ever built.
Hi John, It's the way the world is going, the dodgy top was the straw that broke the camel's back and set the tone of this video, I originally planned to make a video high lighting the difference in safety between this saw and my last one with a vibrating top, no riving knife, exposed wiring at the back and a broken fence. But it was too easy to list the negative aspects of this one and tell like this. I have since cooled off and am happy with it.
If you are in New Zealand or Australia, the company Carbatec offers a 15% discount on most items in the shop. They exclude a couple high brands like Veritas Festool. To qualify you need to be a member of a community shed or a woodworking club. Just join a men's shed, they will only charge you a proportion of the joining fee as it is the end of the year and you are in. 15% on a $6000 tool is like $900 off. The markup is BS, any dealer in any country can afford to give you that much discount. Don't buy a sawstop unless you get a discount, or at least get them to throw in a free brake and blade. If you ever trigger the safety system accidently like with damp wood, you will need those two items to continue working. Currently a brake cartridge and a new blade is over $300AU Ouch
Matt this doesn't surprise me in anyway shape or form it's just the typical things that big companies do with their customers. It's a disgusting thing in my opinion when the company feels that they are too important to give good customer service, at the end of the day if we as customers didn't purchase the product that they're selling then they wouldn't have a company to start with. As alway's Matt 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
Thanks Simon. Doesn't matter, everyone loves a bit of drama now and then. and they say any publicity is good publicity. I am finishing up a dust collection video, and one where i make all the recommended sawstop tools and jigs in the manual. And probably every other video i make from now on will have this saw in a shot so they cant loose.
1. Go pick up your saw yourself. Why spend thousands and trust delivery to who knows who? 2. Build your own mobile base out of wood. 3. As far as quality, my Saw Stop saw was and is perfect.
Good advice. Apart from the unexpected work and re-work required to assemble and setup the saw, and the damaged and defective parts. Mine is perfect too after I got them replaced. Quality of the saw is not in dispute by me and i now love it, just like any child who come after a difficult and painful birth.
Ah I get your point John. For context, I filmed everything as a "New Sawstop Experience". My voice over opinion was added several weeks later after I cooled off. One thing I did not capture on camera was wheeling it out my garage. There was a 3/8 inch bump that collapsed the wheel mechanism too. Wheeling it over a flat surface with no cracks is no problem. I think that is an important point as the mobile base is not an optional extra but essential if you want to move the tool and some people don't have the luxury of a perfectly smooth floor or don't want to assemble a meccano set just to attach wheels. In their case the industrial base would be more suited for them. I also did a separate video on the PCS base assembly to help people who struggle with written instructions.
the Australian and newZealand distributer Carbatech support local wood working clubs and community. Sheds and all you have to do is prove you are a member.
You buy it at a dealer that hires freight drivers that just throw the saw in your driveway while you're absent, and some other delivery drivers that throw fences around then drag them on the floor. Then they proceed to give you terrible service and make it a huge pain to replace any problematic part (which can happen). Then again for the 'huge pain' part, considering that the maker of the video also complains about having to read the manual to put together and then tune up his saw, I'm not fully sure how it actually happened, maybe the huge pain was just that he had to go there and ask for new items...
Hi James- yeah, this Australian and New Zealand woodworking distributer heavily supports clubs and community organizations with the discount. If anything it shows that there is room for negotiation (like asking your retailer to throw in a spare blade and brake at least to make the sale) The markup retailers make must be more than 15% if "this" shop can just give that away. 😀 Also price fixing is illegal here in Australia - and we get two year warranty by law at minimum.
wow USD4500 is quite an expense for 3HP, 10" saw. obviously the main selling point is the safety feature, and having your fingers attached to your palms is priceless. my 4HP saw, 12", 1 " arbour is a sliding saw, which was my main wish, for some quick cuts I often use battery operated Dewalt jobsite saw, which is convenient to bring with you to the client's location, and be able to sneak fit some pieces to commonly uneven walls or other fixtures. my 4HP = 3000W saw was also tripping 13A circuits, so I had to slightly modify the circuit to 16A, and now it works like a charm. surprisingly 4HP saw is very quiet, but I have to admit, I feel intimidated by the power, and am very careful not to make any mistake, because with so much power, the projectiles launched by your mistake would be flying with great speeds and force. my signature designs often feature 4 inch posts, therefore I needed 12" saw, to be able to cut 4" posts with an ease and in one go/pass. however my saw doesn't even have a riving knife, not to mention flesh / conductive material detection, like the SawStop. does SawStop lock the fence on front and back? mine has two side locking, so you can't move it at all, even with big force applied to either end. and my saw doesn't have the guide rails at all, but the sliding carriage acts as a sled, so I never needed one so far. that wings curved corners is a bummer, but because I have a milling machine, I could easily fix it. overall your SawStop is awesome, nothing is perfect, but I would say it still is the best saw out there.
Thanks Tiger Carpenter. My old saw badly cut Dad's hand so I know the cost of that sort of trauma - pretty high. But putting the initial bad experience aside, the saw is like driving a Mercedes compared to a beat up truck with no brakes. I know what you mean re standing behind the saw. 3x3custom tamar has a sawstop and posted short video recently showing a projectile fired into the wall from the blade, so you need to be careful not to be lulled into a false sense of security. I might actually be extra careful with this saw because i am terrified of setting off the brake. Wings were replaced but god, what a pain, add 5 hours to the assembly time. I was worried about going from 12 down to 10 inch but it was pretty rare i needed that extra inch of cut.
@@Saw-IT yes, that's why I never stand behind the blade. Sliding table saw is much safer I think and allows me to stand on the side most of the time. It's good to know they replaced the wings, they can just regrind the faulty ones and reuse them
Gap between table top and wing is irrelevant if the wing and table are both flat, no? You’re sliding material across the top and will never be cutting anything as thin as 19/1000 of an inch.
Yep irrelevant from a functional perspective but it's a Sawstop, after watching all the other reviews, i was expecting something a little closer to perfection. I am the sort of person who would see that gap every cut.
I was disappointed by the flatness of the top and wings of my pcs saw. The specs say that the wings and main table are within 0.020 and 0.010 flat. Come on guys. 40 years ago my shop produced castings larger the wings that were flat within +/-0.002". I got this about ten years ago. Now that I am retired and using the saw for fine wood working I discovered this. Too late for me. I love the safety features of the saw. But, like you, am disappointed about the quality build.
Dont settle! Sawstop makes great products, That said even the greatest companies in the world have lemons... Tho many of your issues were related to shipping issues, defective items are not. I often find when purchasing new items if they start off rocky they often don't get better and leave me with resentment towards the items, wishing I had fully exchanged it for a different one. With something as expensive as Sawstop I would hate to be in that situation... might be best to just exchange it for a new one and opt for the better shipping this time.
Thanks, good advice but unfortunately I did settle and luckily so far it has been trouble free. If i could rewind time i would have taken my box trailer down and picked it up myself but then i would have still got the dodgy wings and would have had to make another 160km trip. Also that damage could have happened any time in the transport, perhaps even dropped when unloading from the ship. I have made some projects with it since and all good. :)
it seems to me hat you should only put together Items that say put part A into Slot B My wife and her girl friend put mine together while I was at work to surprise me and they did it in about 8 hrs and She bought almost every item she could get for it as for the gap you seem to have if you put it together correctly and in the order the instructions say you would probably hot have one and I think you are the only one to have to many problems I do have a friend that that the trunnion was cracked on delivery and Saw Stop not only sent a new machine out but gave him a router table for the hassle and was delivered in a week so I guess you should not buy anything you have to put together
So you had two people put yours together in 8 hours? Other than you having no experience assembling one, what is your point? they were female lol. Regarding how you heard that Sawstop dealt with a damaged on delivery machine... So they replaced the whole saw, and threw in a router table as compensation, good on them. They can afford it since the Australian distributer over here gives all their customers 15% off which is equivalent to a router table cost. Also here in Australia SawStop wont deal with customer's, they off load the entire supply and support to the importer. = shit experience. Your conclusion that I should not buy anything I have to put together is a cheap shot. but thanks for the comment, any interaction improves the visibility and views on the video via the YT promotion algorithm :)
My two or rather 10 cents over here. I feel that this is not doing Saw stop justice. I have the same exact saw and it can be exhausting to put together but everything worthwhile is difficult. A 1 star review means you never, ever in a million years would buy the saw again. The salesman doesn't know your electric setup. Of course a 3 HP, 230V saw is going to trip that breaker. That's an extremely thorough manual which is better than Ikea 10 fold. The PCS mobile base sucks yes but the industrial is worth the money. Every miter gauge and push stick on every table saw ever, undoubtedly sucks. Hopefully they will change that one day. It's just like they never used to come with riving knives. Saw stop has nothing to do with the delivery drivers. I imagine they did not respond because a lot of these complaints are unfounded. However they did replace faulty parts which I am guessing are the cast iron wings. I'm not sure if you didn't tighten the bolts slowly and equally across or they were just a fluke. I usually enjoy your videos Matt. I especially liked the workbench series you did. But this one, not so much. Anyway, have a good day mate.
Hi Amber, thank you ! and because you reached out with a genuine comment. This video is not the full story because as i said at the end, i am not airing my dirty laundry in public. The wings were definitely faulty and not adjustable in any way. SawStop said as long as the top is flat, it is safe and good to go, good bye. They knew i was doing a review on this saw and that was not enough and were ok with that gap then it got messy with them. I agree what you say a one star review is, except my one star is on the "New SawStop Experience" I did not focus on any other aspect as that would make the video too long and confuse the matter and my point. I am very sorry to have upset you. I work in customer experience (in my day job) and I feel Sawstop wrote me off because they "saw" it coming. ar ar. I am going to make more videos like that bench build and that is the direction i am heading, so hope i have not lost you i will be making some beautiful work with this same saw that we share. Mat
If you have your heart set on one - then still go for it. In the end it is a great saw, you shouldn't have all the issues i had. One thing i have noticed is the cast iron almost instantly tarnishes. I found to keep the rust at bay I needed to coat those surfaces in wax. I have a dry shop.
Yes you are so right, I should have read the whole manual including the maintenance section at the back, then I would have known that i needed to immediately go and purchase one of their recommended products Glidecote or Topsaver to prevent the top from rusting. But Wow indeed - I never had time, it rusted in two days. So "My Fault"... that's debatable, but it's a fact, and is relevant to mention as one of the negative aspects of the new saw stop experience. (the title of this video) If SawStop were interested in "customer experience" they would provide a sample bottle, I paid enough for the machine.
I had to laugh at your complaint several times about having to read the manual and comprehend it. I complain all the time about manuals that only have pictures and drawings and no words and I’m always saying to my wife, “why can’t they just tell me what to do in words”. I guess to each his/her own.
haha, no, because i am a youtuber and all the other youtubers have one or are gifted one and give glowing suck up reviews. No one owns me. To tell you the truth, the blade on this scares me more than my last saw which was a death trap. If that safety break gets trigged not only will it scare the crap out of me haha, I will cost my pocket $160USD
The most surprising thing about this video is that there are actually 1,140 people who voluntarily signed up to hear you whinge about future topics. 6:50, yes, I think "comprehend each of the words" is another term for "reading". 7:40 yes, it would make sense to take the parts out of the inside of the saw to assemble the saw, and "if you've got the room"... WTF? You're putting a table saw in a place where you don't have room for a small pack of allen wrenches? 8:22 "fortunately, the wings were perfectly flat, but I'm sure they're still a real problem". 11:40 the fence is... too heavy? 15:03 Sawstop screwed you again! You have to give them credit, though. It's actually a marvel of engineering that the ding on the rail and the impact point on the box it was shipped in are in EXACTLY the same spot. 15:23 I can't wait to hear what's wrong with the wings! It's like the "will they, won't they" suspense in a drama! 15:45 Ok, I get it. It's not a drama, but really skilled comedy. It's like that Monty Python skit where the guy installed the rail crooked and then was surprised that the rail was crooked! 16:43 "The salesman"... at the place where you said you had to join a cult and sacrifice a chicken to get the freemason's discount from the illuminati? Or someone who actually has anything to do with SawStop? Either way, yeah, induction motors have a startup draw. 17:34 19 thousandths of a gap in the lateral direction that doesn't affect the flatness of the table at all (the flatness that was, as you said, perfect, but obviously still a problem). Dear god, what if a piece of lumber falls through there? 18:09 Return the parts to "the store"... SawStop has their own storefronts right there in your town? That must be amazing. I would imagine you missed the part where they said "here comes Karen" as you walked in. And for the record, 1:02, I know you were saving money to buy the saw, but spring for FFS spring for some pants while you're filming.
Thanks Eric. I totally get it and agree this video is a total whinge from start to finish (nothing positive). but i never thought of it as a comedy :) and it totally is ! The guys at the shop probably did say when i went there last, "Here comes Karen with the short shorts" haha , or at least i hope they do next time. The problem they have to deal with is i don't give a F lol. I was going to make this video about how safe this saw is compared to my last saw. But I was in such a shit mood it wrote itself. To be fair though i have 120 videos on this channel and this is the only whinge. Perhaps the sawstop base assembly was also a bit of a whine, na skip that one it has more footage of my shocking legs haha.
Half lol. Thanks for you concern . If we are using the glass analogy, this video's glass is completely empty haha. This video has zero positivity towards SawStop. If there is anything positive, I am very sorry it was misinterpreted or given in error. Read the title again and consider that this is the only negative video on my channel, I have the creative freedom to say anything i want, and in this case i decided to make a purely negative video because every other sucker creator focuses on the safety and any other little thing they can pull out of their ass to justify their purchase or to satisfy their sponsors. Everyone who makes a big investment in a product, should read the negative reviews before purchase. Consider I may be trying to capitalize on that. Not sure why you riled me with your throwaway comment about my life or why i bothered to reply, except i reply to all my comments.
Maybe you should just pay somebody to put it together for you if it was that much trouble. This is the best quality saw I have ever seen!!!! Don't blame the saw for the fact your electrical isn't adequate. Stop whining!!!
yes I agree it was a whine or even a rant, and I don't disagree on the quality of the end product after the defective and damaged parts were replaced. And yes a Saw Stop assembly service could be a booming business because the manual does say put aside two days to do the job but you don't get the manual until the saw arrives. Um I never blamed the saw for my inadequate 15 amp socket, I thought it was just a good point for other people to consider before purchasing this or any large piece of machinery to check that their breaker is not only 15 amp but is also the J type that can handle the start up current of a large motor. This video is my "unboxing experience", and truthfully - - - It fucking sucked. 😆
@@Saw-IT Firstly, I really appreciate the time you put into this video and the straightforward honest observations you made. I watched this review carefully before putting in my order for a 3HP PCS. Once comment though is that the manuals are available on the SawStop website and I read through them BEFORE placing my order, so it is a bit unfair to say you did not have access to information until after you received the saw. I know this is a small point, but over the years, I have learned (the hard way) that it is always better to read through manuals before making a purchase decision in order to avoid surprises. Thanks again for all the great information you provided here. I found it very helpful!!!
@@ay8306 Thanks. I knew this review would help people even if to set expectations. I honestly had not thought of reading product manuals before a purchase before. But now will make a point of it for sure. Thanks for the feedback. To be fair it is a dream to use and have not had any issues with it since.
Hi Tim, I welcome that, Question everything because I very carefully scripted this video with no false or misleading information. The video accurately reflects my SawStop unboxing experience. Other people may have a better or worse Experience. Hopefully better after watching this video. Perhaps I will do another video in a year highlighting all the good features of the saw but there are a hundred videos out there like that already. Cheers
No I never complain. :) This is a different type of video that i decided to make, featuring the negative aspects of my experience. There are a million other videos sharing only the positive aspects of this saw.
Sorry, pretty unimpressed by the first 5 minutes of this video. After reading the negative text accompanying the video and the initial whining, mostly related to shipping issues, we find complaints that the manual doesn't specify protection of the cast iron top *right* after describing cleaning off the protective oil coating. Instead, as is pointed out, you have to read the MAINTENANCE section of the manual to find recommendations regarding protecting the cast iron table top. Or you have to be some kind of GENIUS who already understands that untreated, unprotected cast iron surfaces will stain or rust if exposed to moisture. So, yeah, sweat stains on the new table--oops. The next complaint is that the built in mobile base is *UNSTABLE*. It is deemed so after partially folding into stationary position a couple of times while being used to slide between sections of plywood laid out to move across a lawn with an incline into the shop. Well, yeah, the wheel kit is not really designed for 'off-load' use. So, onto other youtube videos, don't think I'm going to learn anything useful here...
Thanks for your feedback and I hope you have a nice and smooth end user SawStop experience when your one arrives. And Good on you Steve for reading the whole manual including the maintenance section at the back before assembly. Respect.
@@Saw-IT Not only did I read the entire manual before assembly, I read the entire manual before purchase. Of course, like many, I've had cast iron tools previously, so I wasn't depending upon a mention in the manual to know about water/sweat staining with unprotected cast iron surfaces. Still it's good that SawStop includes this mention somewhere. That said, even with protection, I get stains of one sort or another over the months and years. I experienced the sweat problem with a floor model drill press I purchased several years ago. The item had to be disassembled so I could fit it in my van. The guys at the store were kind enough to disassemble it and load it into the back. Unbeknownst to me, they got quite sweaty doing this (it was summer in New England). The next day, when I unloaded the pieces, there were runs and drips of rust that certainly weren't there while it stood on display. 🙂
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Probably the best Sawstop review video out there mate. Well done. Actually I’m not surprised they treated you like crap, you have less than 1000 subs. I reckon you would of had a great experience if you had a million subs. Hope you have many enjoyable years with it mate.
Thanks Vic, I really appreciate that and the saw is actually a joy to use. If i had a million subscribers they would have dropped a fully assembled and tuned up sawstop in my workshop for free haha.
Thank you for this honest review. I appreciate your content. Hope it is pain free and smooth sailing from here.
Thanks Craig, I only focused on the "new saw experience" and have no regrets moving on because as they say, "The grass is always greener on the other side". The saw itself seems very good but just requires a lot of work to get to that point.
Here's my experience with the wings on my PCS that I received 10 months ago in the USA. Both of them have no gap whatsoever when mated to the top. However when bolted tight they lean ever so slightly down. This is actually what I was hoping for. I wouldn't expect the top to be perfectly flat without some adjustment, and this way the minor adjustment needed will create a very small gap on the bottom and not the top. The instructions have you use the rails to hold the wings in a flat position which I don't like. I wouldn't trust them to remain flat. Instead, I added paper thin shims in the bottom of the joint between the wings and the top until they were perfectly flat when bolted tight. I wouldn't expect them to come out of flat with this method as I would if only the rails were holding them up into the flat position. I'm very satisfied with how it turned out.
Sounds like a good outcome.
Pretty sure I needed to lever up or down the wings flat and lock them in place with the rails too.
Thank you for the review. I am considering the smaller SawStop job site saw, and it was useful to see one of the few negative reviews. Your negative points seem a bit overblown, mostly having to do with shipping and issues with assembly. Nothing that I wouldn't really expect for a piece of equipment this heavy and complex. You indicated that the defective parts were replaced. You seem to hold SawStop to a very high standard because of its very high price compared to table saws lacking the safety feature. I will end up paying $1,000 (U.S.) or so more for those safety features--very small price to save some fingers. Nothing here contradicts the overall quality of the saw relative to others once it is assembled. I hope you enjoy the saw. If you should ever need the safety features, your assembly and shipping issues will pale in comparison to your well-being. Wishing you all the best.
I love my SawStop PCS. Fully boxed fence rail, flat table, no gap. Do you think any of your experiences were related to the 15% discount? I’ve always purchased SawStop and Festool from a local dealer that is full price, but delivers next day and will drive any replacement parts like brakes to me immediately. Service is a get what you pay for kind of deal.
good point Gabe, yeah 15% is a lot of money and I never thought about that. I do love it now, just the unboxing experience was bad. :(
Great Video. 100% agree it was a PIA to assemble. It took a while. I don't know that I had all of the problems that you had. What I do think is that hopefully this is my forever table saw. I love it and unless I become a full time woodworker, I can't imagine not having
I am considering buying a Sawstop saw. Thanks for your honest review. Sorry for the frustrating experience you had! Makes me rethink whether I want to deal with the headaches.
Thanks Sue, You can have issues with any brand but look at it this way, if you can get help, you have time and patience, the money, are safety conscious, and have considered that you need a dust extractor, the 15 amp power, outfeed table and the better base, as hidden costs, then this is a great saw. And when you have it tuned up and humming, it is joy to use and you can make beautiful work with it. I am not recommending that people don't buy this saw, just pointing out the "new sawstop experience" is not all roses like most other reviews make out. If i knew all this before buying my sawstop i would have known what to expect and would likely have had a satisfying experience.
@@Saw-IT The only reason I am considering the SawStop is because of the safety factor. While it is the most important factor (one of my fingers is worth $5,000), I don't know that I have the time, patience, and expertise to put everything together as you did. I currently have a Dewalt job site table saw (DWE7491RS) that I'm happy with, aside from the safety aspect. After watching some videos on the SawStop patents and their expiration, I think I'll wait until April 2024 and see if other companies will be able to enter the market. In the meantime, I will be very careful with my Dewalt! If the patents don't expire, then I will revisit the SawStop at that time. Thanks again for sharing your experience.
Mine came in a wooden crate with no damage. This was a great review, yet I absolutely love my saw. I bought a after market miter gauge, and I can't anyway to avoid some type of scratches to the table top.
Hi Marcus. The scratches on the top are a shame but it ends up being just part of the saw I guess. I wonder if gluing a bit of felt under it would have helped. The saw is growing on me, especially when i get clean and repeatable cuts all the time haha.
Many thanks for the review . . . at the moment I think a track saw has better quality engineering and more suited to my requirements.
Several other reviews have also commented on major problems and poor SawStop engineering --- very pleased with other manufacturers will probable buy from them.
The Sawstop saw I bought was and is perfect. Quality is top notch. Other manufacturers probably have equal quality. That said, other manufacturers DO NOT have the safety feature blade brake. You have an accident on another saw, and you'll spend 10 to 12 thousand at the emergency room. IF they can repair the damage. Pretty easy decision: Sawstop.
Mat, I’m sorry you had this experience. I drove past about 6 different dealers to buy mine from one that had a great reputation. They really took good care of me with delivery and gave me free delivery. I agree the assembly is pretty intense, but now I feel like I really know most of my saw. Each time I use it I like it more and more. Hopefully you’ll feel the same once these issues get sorted. I am glad you got one, hopefully we both never need that safety feature.
One bad thing is if Zombies attack, you can’t throw them on your running saw unless you take the time to turn off the safety devise.
Hi Drew, Oh yeah the zombies, never mind i have a lot of other sharp things in the workshop to throw them on lol. We have two dealers in AUS and one does the 15% discount so it was no real choice there. Sorry about the sob story, i could have just as easily changed the theme of the video and i am sure it is going to turn into the most loved tool in the workshop. Mat
I put mine together by my self and I had no problems, and it took only about three hours.
Holley hell. You are a legend. Even the manual says put aside two days. You work for SawStop?
I heard two complaints that were justified. The crappy mobile base that comes standard and the wings. The person who sold you the saw should have encouraged you to buy the industrial base. It's much more stable and gives you unlimited turning radius. The wings were a little wonky, but as long as the fit squarely and only that small bit was the issue, I would have let it go or tried to negotiate a over head dust collection setup. You loved the miter gauge, but I can tell you from my experience selling various table saws for several years each miter gauge that comes with any saw is the weak link to accuracy. The damage caused by the shipping company isn't on Sawstop, it's on the shipping company. And lastly, if had read the manual you would have known about the power ratings and the needed breaker.
Hello, thanks for your feedback, good thinking - I tried to negotiate for an outfeed table as compensation, but they don't negotiate, or I just started too high. So why then let it go and not demand perfect parts? They resisted until i made legal threats. Presumably shipping three hunks of steel 4100 miles from Brisbane back the manufacturer in Tiawan was a little financially distressing after all. The dealer said they were going to get them re-milled. (Lucky next customer lol) And lastly re the power ratings and required breaker in the SawStop manual.? I found nothing in the manual on this, other than it states that the Australian model requires an outlet to take a NEMA 6-15P plug. this is a 15 amp shaped plug and can only fit in my 15 amp socket (no brainer). The manual states that the saw draws 13 amps, and does not mention that the momentary startup current is closer to 50 amps. Therefore you need to have an industrial J type circuit breaker so that the power does not trip each time the saw powers on and spikes well over 15 amps. If you can find more on this in the manual i will tip my hat to you. Otherwise telling me i should have read the manual is a little strange because I had to find the circuit breaker information by asking other good users on forums who had the same issue. Sawstop apparently don't publish this information? Perhaps it might scare off potential buyers and to be fair a lot of other brands saws with big motors might also have the same characteristics.
@@Saw-IT Like you said in your last sentence other saws will have the same electrical requirements, heck they could have the same companies electric motors in their own brand. I guess I would have asked the dealer where I bought the saw the required electrical setup I needed.
Carbatec are not just simply a retailer for SawStop but the Australian Import Agents. This is why your complaint to SawStop was redirected back through to Carbatec as the buck literally stops and starts with them. I will let your direct experience and Carbatec’s track history speak for itself.
P.S. Love your workbench build series.
Thank you Jimmy, that makes sense. I really want to make another bench, but for myself and made even better. This saw sure would sure help with that. !
You do realize any brand of saw you get delivered in a box is going to require assembly the only thing you really have a right to complain about were the cast iron wings. Most of the reviews I have watched say that the SS instructions and assembly are the best in the business.
I am not complaining, just making the most negative review possible. It seems to have created a lot of interest in the video thanks.
A bit late, but I moved and I need to finally get the dust collection hose attached and to stay attached. Did you have trouble with it? I couldn't get it to stay on the short angled pipe on the shroud. If you had trouble and figured out something clever I'd love to know about it. Or, if you didn't I'd like to know that too. 😊
no probs at all. the fittings i found were snug. The only issues i have is my dust extraction machine can only just keep up.
Hello mate. Great honest review and can absolutely see your frustration. I've admired that saw for a while and hadn't really seen anything negative about it until now so thank you for your honesty! Although I'm a few years away from a new saw at least, I'll definitely re watch this before making any decisions! Take care
Thanks Sam. the thing is, reviewers like James fixitfingers Yesterday are paid or others feel the need to justify their decision because it is a big purchase. Sorry i had a bad experience and that made me overly sensitive to all small negative aspects that otherwise could have been easily accepted and taken on the chin. Hey Carbatec are in NZ and probably have that 15% discount too.
@@Saw-IT not only are they in nz, they've opened a store less than a km from my house, dangerously close!! I agree too that bias can creep in, and no doubt your negative customer experience has muddied the water too.
It sounds like maybe you're not a cabinet saw type of guy. It's been almost 25 years since I bought my Delta Unisaw, and the assembly process was pretty much the same. Even down to one of the cast iron wings that drooped a bit before I used some brass shim stock to even it up. Heck I went through much of the same with the stationary thicknesser I just got, even including damage by the shipping company (forklift drivers are pressured to keep things moving no matter what). Some of the things that go with the territory with professional stationary power tools.
Good insight and yep pretty much the same. The only difference here is that there are a thousand YT videos praising how great the setup experience of this saw is and it is strongly marketed to ordinary hobbyists like me, so I felt like I was miss led. I could have put up with the myriad of nuisance points that I brought up and joined the ranks of praisers, but sawstop balked at rectifying my legitimate issues. I was going to do a direct comparison of the safety features compared to my last saw. broken fence, exposed electrical wires, the injury it did to my dad's hand. but looking at the footage it was obvious how the review needed to go. No home workshop hobbyist is a cabinet saw type of guy so I thought it is a fair review of the new sawstop experience. (I work in customer experience at my day job)
Hey bud hows it going?
I have a saw stop t glide fence on my H&F saw. I'm wondering if you were to lay a straight along the white part of the fence, if there's a gap any where? On mine, both sides of fence are a slightly raised a bees dick 20mm from the out feed end. I was ripping jointed boards for a panel glue up and had straight on one side (the jointed side) and the opposite side (the ripped side) was straight until 300mm from the end of the timber. Every board had a bow in the same place.
Hi, My fence is dead flat all along. The white face plate can be adjusted or replaced. Ref page 15 www.sawstop.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/CNS_T-Glide_Fence_System_Owners_Manual_Aug_08.pdf
Over tightening the screws can make the surface
concave.
Hey Matt I have been spoilt for Australian sawstop reviews today! Watched Mr fingers review earlier. Two very different experiences. Thanks for sharing. Hope that it gives you years of good service after you get everything sorted. Just a pain that it's not been a good experience to this point.
Thanks so much, I am subscribed to James @FixitFingers and it was a great video. It is all about the experience eh.
@@Saw-IT two very different saws... having seen this, I am super glad mine came in ONE piece 🤣
The message probably should be directed to the importer. They are probably responsible for all sales and support for your location. My experience with sawstop has been very good especially compared to some other manufacturers.
I highly recommend wearing pants for your next review.
haha, those legs are pretty shocking.
@@Saw-IT 😂😂😂
Really appreciated the review. I am currently considering one of these saws. This definitely gave me pause.
That is really good, this was my experience, and you being prepared will help ensure your experience is better. This saw tuned and setup is now fine, other brands no doubt have just as good or better quality saws but without the safety brake.
"Would I still bought a Sawstop if I knew all this beforehand and the answer is... probably YES!" 😂 i know that feeling and experienced that before with other companies. Also love your dry humor.. "basically a hose.. F that!" Subscribed!!!
Damm, you made my day lol
This guy seems like a powermatic rep. No one else is has any reviews close to these. He is all about his 15%.
Interesting observation, Powermatic could be better value. But don't take the 15% as something positive lol.
I only mention it in the negative only review to highlight the markup fat in these saws. This Australian company deducts $975AU or $634US from recommended retail and apparently still makes a profit. You are entitled to bargain for a discount up to that amount to with your shop too.
I had the same problem with the integrated mobile base..... any tiny vibration and the saw would fall to the ground. I took the base back off my saw and brought it straight back to woodcraft and they gave me full credit toward the more robust base.
They shouldn't even sell the integrated mobile base in its current form if it's so unreliable.
Thanks. Fortunately my workshop floor is smooth and it has not happened again moving it. I guess i just have to be careful i don't push it over a small wood chip or something lol
When it comes to tripping your breaker I'm not entirely surprised. They're made for the US market first lets be real and our 240v circuits usually start at 20a dual pole. But at the price most of these are going to be going into shops that are very unlikely to have less than a 20a single pole. Probably wasn't a concern so didn't get mentioned a lot.
Interesting.
Great review..so frustrating and disappointing when you are neglected as a valued customer. Im considering this saw but still assessing. Customer/after sales service is so important. Why cant these companies acknowledge and honour it.🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
Thanks - If you are in the US you will get best service because that is probably the only country with an actual SawStop office. Here overseas you deal with a local distributer who imports it direct from Taiwan, so your mileage will vary. But i guess I was just unlucky. Since then, I have made several projects and love the saw. Now you know all the potential issues you shouldn't be disappointed haha.
@SAW IT I'm in Sydney Australia and looking at this sawstop too. We have Carbatec to rely on.
Should be alright - I was unlucky with the damaged rail and defective wings but they ended up replacing them. Make sure you are a member of a woodworking club or men's shed to ask for that 15% discount. 😊
Mate, another good video. Very unfortunate about the sawstop. I have nowhere the money to buy one and I keep thinking about, is that the big machine I save up for. I run off a titron mk3 that I got second hand of fb. But of recent I'm thinking maybe just a dealt job site saw... but is that enough for fine wood working?
One of your previous videos with the roubo, I've been hand jointing my workbench. Tops down, stretchers are square and the legs are nearly done. Your video gave me some good tips. Cheers again!
That is brilliant psyave and makes that bench video very rewarding for me. A job site saw can be used for fine woodworking for sure. My last one was a contractor style saw and it was more than adequate except for the faulty fence in the end. Check out @3x3CustomTamar she has used a jobsite saw for fine woodworking for years and made it work - check out her older videos though, ironically she has recently upgraded to a sawstop.
What amps does it draw on startup again?
G'day Mat, well I had to pop on over and check this out now didn't I? ;) Not sure how you've flown under my radar for so long, always great to find another small Aussie Maker channel. You have made me very glad mine came in one single piece! 🤣🤣
Thanks James, I am starting to gain momentum, have been filling those under serviced niches lol
Sir this was a great video. I didn’t think you were whining like some of the other commenters stated. People have different opinions and views and that’s okay. Not sure why people get so upset about differing opinions or feel offended because you wanted to share your views and thoughts? Anyways. You’ve got a good number of useful videos just subscribed!!
Thanks J Var blaze. If people say i am whining, i am whining, lol everyone's perception is different especially if you are a die hard Sawstop fan. I just filmed it and at the end I decided that i had enough negative aspects to make that a theme. I originally planed to focus on the amazing safety features compared to my last death trap saw haha. But everyone else does those type of sawstop videos. Thanks for Subscribing. Having viewers, including the critical ones is what drives me make better videos. One of the reasons for getting this particular saw was to reinvigorate my channel and motivate me to make more quality projects and that is working.
ahaha, I wasn't expecting a pyjama party in the workshop 😄 The wings are interesting, is it a fault or just how they are? ie, does that gap affect the cut or the assembly of the tool, or is it more that it looks shit every time you glance at it? To be clear though, for the cost of that model, I'd complain as well 😄Look forward to seeing what you make on it duder 👍
Hi Mario, Cut, assembly and safety of the tool were not affected. It came down to the fact that it would have bothered me forever. It was a pain for carbatec (and me) to replace the wings and the dented tglide fence tube but that is behind me now. Currently working on a video of a DIY dust arm. and making a wooden laundry basket as the next project. (something unique) Been hanging for more of your videos hope you and your family have been well and are ok etc.
Did you get the metric miter gauge, or the one which only gets up to 90?
haha, you made me check my gauge and the manual of the PCS US model, and the miter gauge is universal between models and degrees are not metric. 😆
Since Sawstop was sold I think to the same owners of Festool not completely sure, the quality of manufacturing and customer service has turned to sh$t as usual when these sales happen. I'm in the U S so I don't' know if is the same way or not. This makes me very sad because Sawstop has been one of the best built and safest saws ever built.
Hi John, It's the way the world is going, the dodgy top was the straw that broke the camel's back and set the tone of this video, I originally planned to make a video high lighting the difference in safety between this saw and my last one with a vibrating top, no riving knife, exposed wiring at the back and a broken fence. But it was too easy to list the negative aspects of this one and tell like this. I have since cooled off and am happy with it.
I figured our how to make Craftsman contractor table saws100.xxxxx 113.xxxxx and 315.xxxxx series safer with a blade drop on contact and blade stop.
Hej Matt! Bra video!👍 hoppas Saw Stop kompenserar dig. Gillar dina videos 😁👍 hälsningar Kent från Sverige 😁
Thank you Kent from Sweden. I love your country. SawStop doesn't owe me compensation, I just hope I did not upset them too much.
Sadly, discount for community shed members has now been curtailed.
So this video now has nothing positive in it 😢😞
How did you save 15% ?
If you are in New Zealand or Australia, the company Carbatec offers a 15% discount on most items in the shop.
They exclude a couple high brands like Veritas Festool.
To qualify you need to be a member of a community shed or a woodworking club.
Just join a men's shed, they will only charge you a proportion of the joining fee as it is the end of the year and you are in.
15% on a $6000 tool is like $900 off.
The markup is BS, any dealer in any country can afford to give you that much discount.
Don't buy a sawstop unless you get a discount, or at least get them to throw in a free brake and blade.
If you ever trigger the safety system accidently like with damp wood, you will need those two items to continue working.
Currently a brake cartridge and a new blade is over $300AU
Ouch
Matt this doesn't surprise me in anyway shape or form it's just the typical things that big companies do with their customers. It's a disgusting thing in my opinion when the company feels that they are too important to give good customer service, at the end of the day if we as customers didn't purchase the product that they're selling then they wouldn't have a company to start with. As alway's Matt 💯% 👍 🇬🇧.
Thanks Simon. Doesn't matter, everyone loves a bit of drama now and then. and they say any publicity is good publicity. I am finishing up a dust collection video, and one where i make all the recommended sawstop tools and jigs in the manual. And probably every other video i make from now on will have this saw in a shot so they cant loose.
1. Go pick up your saw yourself. Why spend thousands and trust delivery to who knows who?
2. Build your own mobile base out of wood.
3. As far as quality, my Saw Stop saw was and is perfect.
Good advice. Apart from the unexpected work and re-work required to assemble and setup the saw, and the damaged and defective parts. Mine is perfect too after I got them replaced. Quality of the saw is not in dispute by me and i now love it, just like any child who come after a difficult and painful birth.
You’re complaining about the mobile base before it’s assembled and while you’re wheeling it across plywood over grass.
Ah I get your point John. For context, I filmed everything as a "New Sawstop Experience". My voice over opinion was added several weeks later after I cooled off.
One thing I did not capture on camera was wheeling it out my garage. There was a 3/8 inch bump that collapsed the wheel mechanism too. Wheeling it over a flat surface with no cracks is no problem. I think that is an important point as the mobile base is not an optional extra but essential if you want to move the tool and some people don't have the luxury of a perfectly smooth floor or don't want to assemble a meccano set just to attach wheels. In their case the industrial base would be more suited for them. I also did a separate video on the PCS base assembly to help people who struggle with written instructions.
What do you expect, it’s made by a patent attorney.
True
I watched the video and missed the instruction on how to save 15%
the Australian and newZealand distributer Carbatech support local wood working clubs and community. Sheds and all you have to do is prove you are a member.
You buy it at a dealer that hires freight drivers that just throw the saw in your driveway while you're absent, and some other delivery drivers that throw fences around then drag them on the floor. Then they proceed to give you terrible service and make it a huge pain to replace any problematic part (which can happen).
Then again for the 'huge pain' part, considering that the maker of the video also complains about having to read the manual to put together and then tune up his saw, I'm not fully sure how it actually happened, maybe the huge pain was just that he had to go there and ask for new items...
Hey look , it's European Stewart from Big Bang Theroy, lmao😂
I see it !!!
But am now going to have to change the video thumbnail picture haha.
The discount must be an Australian thing, because in the US Saw stop is price fixed.
Hi James- yeah, this Australian and New Zealand woodworking distributer heavily supports clubs and community organizations with the discount.
If anything it shows that there is room for negotiation (like asking your retailer to throw in a spare blade and brake at least to make the sale)
The markup retailers make must be more than 15% if "this" shop can just give that away. 😀
Also price fixing is illegal here in Australia - and we get two year warranty by law at minimum.
wow USD4500 is quite an expense for 3HP, 10" saw.
obviously the main selling point is the safety feature, and having your fingers attached to your palms is priceless.
my 4HP saw, 12", 1 " arbour is a sliding saw, which was my main wish, for some quick cuts I often use battery operated Dewalt jobsite saw, which is convenient to bring with you to the client's location, and be able to sneak fit some pieces to commonly uneven walls or other fixtures.
my 4HP = 3000W saw was also tripping 13A circuits, so I had to slightly modify the circuit to 16A, and now it works like a charm.
surprisingly 4HP saw is very quiet, but I have to admit, I feel intimidated by the power, and am very careful not to make any mistake, because with so much power, the projectiles launched by your mistake would be flying with great speeds and force.
my signature designs often feature 4 inch posts, therefore I needed 12" saw, to be able to cut 4" posts with an ease and in one go/pass.
however my saw doesn't even have a riving knife, not to mention flesh / conductive material detection, like the SawStop.
does SawStop lock the fence on front and back? mine has two side locking, so you can't move it at all, even with big force applied to either end.
and my saw doesn't have the guide rails at all, but the sliding carriage acts as a sled, so I never needed one so far.
that wings curved corners is a bummer, but because I have a milling machine, I could easily fix it.
overall your SawStop is awesome, nothing is perfect, but I would say it still is the best saw out there.
Thanks Tiger Carpenter. My old saw badly cut Dad's hand so I know the cost of that sort of trauma - pretty high. But putting the initial bad experience aside, the saw is like driving a Mercedes compared to a beat up truck with no brakes. I know what you mean re standing behind the saw. 3x3custom tamar has a sawstop and posted short video recently showing a projectile fired into the wall from the blade, so you need to be careful not to be lulled into a false sense of security. I might actually be extra careful with this saw because i am terrified of setting off the brake. Wings were replaced but god, what a pain, add 5 hours to the assembly time. I was worried about going from 12 down to 10 inch but it was pretty rare i needed that extra inch of cut.
@@Saw-IT yes, that's why I never stand behind the blade. Sliding table saw is much safer I think and allows me to stand on the side most of the time.
It's good to know they replaced the wings, they can just regrind the faulty ones and reuse them
Who complains about having to read and comprehend a manual. I thought this was a joke.
Come on. Is that all you can pick this video on Lol.
Gap between table top and wing is irrelevant if the wing and table are both flat, no? You’re sliding material across the top and will never be cutting anything as thin as 19/1000 of an inch.
Yep irrelevant from a functional perspective but it's a Sawstop, after watching all the other reviews, i was expecting something a little closer to perfection. I am the sort of person who would see that gap every cut.
I was disappointed by the flatness of the top and wings of my pcs saw. The specs say that the wings and main table are within 0.020 and 0.010 flat. Come on guys. 40 years ago my shop produced castings larger the wings that were flat within +/-0.002". I got this about ten years ago. Now that I am retired and using the saw for fine wood working I discovered this. Too late for me. I love the safety features of the saw. But, like you, am disappointed about the quality build.
Dont settle! Sawstop makes great products, That said even the greatest companies in the world have lemons... Tho many of your issues were related to shipping issues, defective items are not. I often find when purchasing new items if they start off rocky they often don't get better and leave me with resentment towards the items, wishing I had fully exchanged it for a different one. With something as expensive as Sawstop I would hate to be in that situation... might be best to just exchange it for a new one and opt for the better shipping this time.
Thanks, good advice but unfortunately I did settle and luckily so far it has been trouble free. If i could rewind time i would have taken my box trailer down and picked it up myself but then i would have still got the dodgy wings and would have had to make another 160km trip. Also that damage could have happened any time in the transport, perhaps even dropped when unloading from the ship. I have made some projects with it since and all good. :)
What are you complaining about just some petty stuff set the saw up and get yo work too much complaining
Thanks, Yes that's correct, I dredged up all the petty stuff I could find because I was in a very bad mood. lol.
it seems to me hat you should only put together Items that say put part A into Slot B My wife and her girl friend put mine together while I was at work to surprise me and they did it in about 8 hrs and She bought almost every item she could get for it as for the gap you seem to have if you put it together correctly and in the order the instructions say you would probably hot have one and I think you are the only one to have to many problems I do have a friend that that the trunnion was cracked on delivery and Saw Stop not only sent a new machine out but gave him a router table for the hassle and was delivered in a week so I guess you should not buy anything you have to put together
So you had two people put yours together in 8 hours? Other than you having no experience assembling one, what is your point? they were female lol.
Regarding how you heard that Sawstop dealt with a damaged on delivery machine... So they replaced the whole saw, and threw in a router table as compensation, good on them. They can afford it since the Australian distributer over here gives all their customers 15% off which is equivalent to a router table cost. Also here in Australia SawStop wont deal with customer's, they off load the entire supply and support to the importer. = shit experience. Your conclusion that I should not buy anything I have to put together is a cheap shot. but thanks for the comment, any interaction improves the visibility and views on the video via the YT promotion algorithm :)
My two or rather 10 cents over here. I feel that this is not doing Saw stop justice. I have the same exact saw and it can be exhausting to put together but everything worthwhile is difficult. A 1 star review means you never, ever in a million years would buy the saw again. The salesman doesn't know your electric setup. Of course a 3 HP, 230V saw is going to trip that breaker. That's an extremely thorough manual which is better than Ikea 10 fold. The PCS mobile base sucks yes but the industrial is worth the money. Every miter gauge and push stick on every table saw ever, undoubtedly sucks. Hopefully they will change that one day. It's just like they never used to come with riving knives. Saw stop has nothing to do with the delivery drivers. I imagine they did not respond because a lot of these complaints are unfounded. However they did replace faulty parts which I am guessing are the cast iron wings. I'm not sure if you didn't tighten the bolts slowly and equally across or they were just a fluke. I usually enjoy your videos Matt. I especially liked the workbench series you did. But this one, not so much. Anyway, have a good day mate.
Hi Amber, thank you ! and because you reached out with a genuine comment. This video is not the full story because as i said at the end, i am not airing my dirty laundry in public. The wings were definitely faulty and not adjustable in any way. SawStop said as long as the top is flat, it is safe and good to go, good bye. They knew i was doing a review on this saw and that was not enough and were ok with that gap then it got messy with them. I agree what you say a one star review is, except my one star is on the "New SawStop Experience" I did not focus on any other aspect as that would make the video too long and confuse the matter and my point. I am very sorry to have upset you. I work in customer experience (in my day job) and I feel Sawstop wrote me off because they "saw" it coming. ar ar. I am going to make more videos like that bench build and that is the direction i am heading, so hope i have not lost you i will be making some beautiful work with this same saw that we share. Mat
The miter gauge that came with my Powermatic 15 years ago is great. Amber Sky may not like your review, but I think it was fair.
They should call it the SawStop table saw kit. That amount of assembly is ridiculous. Thanks for the heads-up.
If you have your heart set on one - then still go for it. In the end it is a great saw, you shouldn't have all the issues i had. One thing i have noticed is the cast iron almost instantly tarnishes. I found to keep the rust at bay I needed to coat those surfaces in wax. I have a dry shop.
almost all cabinet saws have to be assembled look at the Harvey
The fact that it’s rusted is absolutely your fault. Wow
Yes you are so right, I should have read the whole manual including the maintenance section at the back, then I would have known that i needed to immediately go and purchase one of their recommended products Glidecote or Topsaver to prevent the top from rusting.
But Wow indeed - I never had time, it rusted in two days.
So "My Fault"... that's debatable, but it's a fact, and is relevant to mention as one of the negative aspects of the new saw stop experience. (the title of this video)
If SawStop were interested in "customer experience" they would provide a sample bottle, I paid enough for the machine.
I had to laugh at your complaint several times about having to read the manual and comprehend it. I complain all the time about manuals that only have pictures and drawings and no words and I’m always saying to my wife, “why can’t they just tell me what to do in words”. I guess to each his/her own.
True, perhaps bad choice of words lol.
Did you buy this product, because you have the inability, to keep your hands clear from the blade?
haha, no, because i am a youtuber and all the other youtubers have one or are gifted one and give glowing suck up reviews. No one owns me.
To tell you the truth, the blade on this scares me more than my last saw which was a death trap.
If that safety break gets trigged not only will it scare the crap out of me haha, I will cost my pocket $160USD
The most surprising thing about this video is that there are actually 1,140 people who voluntarily signed up to hear you whinge about future topics.
6:50, yes, I think "comprehend each of the words" is another term for "reading". 7:40 yes, it would make sense to take the parts out of the inside of the saw to assemble the saw, and "if you've got the room"... WTF? You're putting a table saw in a place where you don't have room for a small pack of allen wrenches? 8:22 "fortunately, the wings were perfectly flat, but I'm sure they're still a real problem". 11:40 the fence is... too heavy? 15:03 Sawstop screwed you again! You have to give them credit, though. It's actually a marvel of engineering that the ding on the rail and the impact point on the box it was shipped in are in EXACTLY the same spot. 15:23 I can't wait to hear what's wrong with the wings! It's like the "will they, won't they" suspense in a drama! 15:45 Ok, I get it. It's not a drama, but really skilled comedy. It's like that Monty Python skit where the guy installed the rail crooked and then was surprised that the rail was crooked! 16:43 "The salesman"... at the place where you said you had to join a cult and sacrifice a chicken to get the freemason's discount from the illuminati? Or someone who actually has anything to do with SawStop? Either way, yeah, induction motors have a startup draw. 17:34 19 thousandths of a gap in the lateral direction that doesn't affect the flatness of the table at all (the flatness that was, as you said, perfect, but obviously still a problem). Dear god, what if a piece of lumber falls through there? 18:09 Return the parts to "the store"... SawStop has their own storefronts right there in your town? That must be amazing. I would imagine you missed the part where they said "here comes Karen" as you walked in.
And for the record, 1:02, I know you were saving money to buy the saw, but spring for FFS spring for some pants while you're filming.
Thanks Eric. I totally get it and agree this video is a total whinge from start to finish (nothing positive). but i never thought of it as a comedy :) and it totally is ! The guys at the shop probably did say when i went there last, "Here comes Karen with the short shorts" haha , or at least i hope they do next time. The problem they have to deal with is i don't give a F lol. I was going to make this video about how safe this saw is compared to my last saw. But I was in such a shit mood it wrote itself. To be fair though i have 120 videos on this channel and this is the only whinge. Perhaps the sawstop base assembly was also a bit of a whine, na skip that one it has more footage of my shocking legs haha.
So very sorry that your glass of life is half full
Half lol. Thanks for you concern . If we are using the glass analogy, this video's glass is completely empty haha.
This video has zero positivity towards SawStop. If there is anything positive, I am very sorry it was misinterpreted or given in error. Read the title again and consider that this is the only negative video on my channel, I have the creative freedom to say anything i want, and in this case i decided to make a purely negative video because every other sucker creator focuses on the safety and any other little thing they can pull out of their ass to justify their purchase or to satisfy their sponsors. Everyone who makes a big investment in a product, should read the negative reviews before purchase. Consider I may be trying to capitalize on that. Not sure why you riled me with your throwaway comment about my life or why i bothered to reply, except i reply to all my comments.
Maybe you should just pay somebody to put it together for you if it was that much trouble. This is the best quality saw I have ever seen!!!! Don't blame the saw for the fact your electrical isn't adequate. Stop whining!!!
yes I agree it was a whine or even a rant, and I don't disagree on the quality of the end product after the defective and damaged parts were replaced. And yes a Saw Stop assembly service could be a booming business because the manual does say put aside two days to do the job but you don't get the manual until the saw arrives. Um I never blamed the saw for my inadequate 15 amp socket, I thought it was just a good point for other people to consider before purchasing this or any large piece of machinery to check that their breaker is not only 15 amp but is also the J type that can handle the start up current of a large motor. This video is my "unboxing experience", and truthfully - - - It fucking sucked. 😆
@@Saw-IT Firstly, I really appreciate the time you put into this video and the straightforward honest observations you made. I watched this review carefully before putting in my order for a 3HP PCS. Once comment though is that the manuals are available on the SawStop website and I read through them BEFORE placing my order, so it is a bit unfair to say you did not have access to information until after you received the saw. I know this is a small point, but over the years, I have learned (the hard way) that it is always better to read through manuals before making a purchase decision in order to avoid surprises.
Thanks again for all the great information you provided here. I found it very helpful!!!
@@ay8306 Thanks. I knew this review would help people even if to set expectations. I honestly had not thought of reading product manuals before a purchase before. But now will make a point of it for sure. Thanks for the feedback. To be fair it is a dream to use and have not had any issues with it since.
Tons of questionable information right outta the gate in this video.
Hi Tim, I welcome that, Question everything because I very carefully scripted this video with no false or misleading information. The video accurately reflects my SawStop unboxing experience. Other people may have a better or worse Experience. Hopefully better after watching this video. Perhaps I will do another video in a year highlighting all the good features of the saw but there are a hundred videos out there like that already. Cheers
Complain much?
No I never complain. :)
This is a different type of video that i decided to make, featuring the negative aspects of my experience.
There are a million other videos sharing only the positive aspects of this saw.
Sorry, pretty unimpressed by the first 5 minutes of this video. After reading the negative text accompanying the video and the initial whining, mostly related to shipping issues, we find complaints that the manual doesn't specify protection of the cast iron top *right* after describing cleaning off the protective oil coating. Instead, as is pointed out, you have to read the MAINTENANCE section of the manual to find recommendations regarding protecting the cast iron table top. Or you have to be some kind of GENIUS who already understands that untreated, unprotected cast iron surfaces will stain or rust if exposed to moisture. So, yeah, sweat stains on the new table--oops. The next complaint is that the built in mobile base is *UNSTABLE*. It is deemed so after partially folding into stationary position a couple of times while being used to slide between sections of plywood laid out to move across a lawn with an incline into the shop. Well, yeah, the wheel kit is not really designed for 'off-load' use. So, onto other youtube videos, don't think I'm going to learn anything useful here...
Thanks for your feedback and I hope you have a nice and smooth end user SawStop experience when your one arrives.
And Good on you Steve for reading the whole manual including the maintenance section at the back before assembly. Respect.
@@Saw-IT Not only did I read the entire manual before assembly, I read the entire manual before purchase. Of course, like many, I've had cast iron tools previously, so I wasn't depending upon a mention in the manual to know about water/sweat staining with unprotected cast iron surfaces. Still it's good that SawStop includes this mention somewhere. That said, even with protection, I get stains of one sort or another over the months and years. I experienced the sweat problem with a floor model drill press I purchased several years ago. The item had to be disassembled so I could fit it in my van. The guys at the store were kind enough to disassemble it and load it into the back. Unbeknownst to me, they got quite sweaty doing this (it was summer in New England). The next day, when I unloaded the pieces, there were runs and drips of rust that certainly weren't there while it stood on display. 🙂