The concept behind the Shadow Dragons and their existence being a result of abusing Shenron and being selfish with their wishes was good. The execution of that concept was poor. Also, we get confirmation that Bulma summons him every year to look *slightly* younger and for no other reason which I feel like needs to have consequences but we'll never see that happen.
@@hitkid2456would also be a good throwback that his advice actually had weight, that this is less "mortals should follow their own path" and more "do you want another Buu-tier threat roaming the cosmos?" Also, given how Super proved that Shin is in fact an inept god and being "free range" with his morties is verifiable proven TERRIBLE idea, if Old Kai's advice on dragon ball abuse held weight you could see he had the potential to set Shin straight and make Universe 7 great again
You just made me realize, the dragon balls restore bodies ONLY if they actually like the person they're helping lmao, Frieza is an opp so he got the most inconvenient revival possible.
The dragon will "add something extra" if you chill with him or straight up "here are the pieces you didnt wish for him to be healthy" from Aladin to monkey dependin on your friendship
fun fact, in xenoverse 2 Omega Shenron and Beerus has a special dialogue. The dialogue in summary is Omega Shenron berating Beerus on how he let the dragon balls go bad while Beerus retorts by saying that he's not in charge of the dragon ball
I love the minor additions like that, in XV2 Elder Kai mentions that The Tree Of Might was supposed to be a ceremonial type event and its fruit is Only meant to be consumed by the Kais/Gods...
I’ve always liked how the Shadow Dragons- particularly Nuova Shenron -grant a kind of ‘consciousness’ or individuality to the Dragon Balls themselves. Like, due to being the Four Star Ball, Nuova has a particular sentimental attachment to Goku- even beyond just being kind of a cool guy because his wish didn’t need to let off negative energy. Makes you wonder if the Cerealian Dragon Balls are, like, weird fucked up guys at this point considering they’re in the unique position of pretty much directly being used to kill someone.
I feel like the reason nuova shenron isn’t as evil as the others is because he was kinda prayed to in og dragon ball before goku learns the truth plus it being near so many people who sends out positive energy seems to mellow him out to late cell saga vegeta
If you don't know anything about dragon ball it might be crazy....but to people who do, its so far from crazy id be concerned over how you personally define words, must not be using the normal definitions and just making your own meaning up. You must be a bag of balloons
Raditz did *not* thrive, man. He was the weakest surviving Saiyan, still forced to serve under the guy who genocided his race, and then he fucking died.
counterpoint, he didn't mind the whole genocide thing, and he technically had the same job Bardock had at the time. also, the original Japanese translates to something along the lines of " I wish my sons grow up to be big strong men" which Raditz kinda did before he died
At the time, Raditz was actually the second weakest surviving Saiyan, which is still pretty bad; but he was also the third strongest surviving Saiyan, which is pretty good!
@@xxTerpsichore vegetas brother turbles, that pirate turtle and some of his crew members, broly, paragasus, they existed withing raditz his lifetime so you're wrong about your numbers.
(i have not read the super manga yer but) my theory for the bardock wish is that it simply allowed goku and raditz to survive the destruction of planet vegeta and nothing more (which explains why raditz didnt "thrive" as much as goku even though he was included in the wish) This is obviously better than making the entirety of the series pointless but it does still affect the entire point of the saiyan saga, which was that goku, being thought of as a weakling, was sent to planet earth where he became a good person, met incredible people, and managed to get powers and abilities that could rival the evil saiyan "elite"
Its basically like asking how many letters are in the alphabet. We already know and doing a video about what we already know seems worse that being out of ideas. But if you like hearing stuff we already know.....no wonder no one makes new good stuff anymore. Its all horribly regurgitated stuff. That we all thought we heard enough about to never need an exposition dump. Since exposition dumps are supposed to tell us stuff we don't know, at all. Whats the point
I was mild on the idea of Cerualian Dragon balls, but at the very least adding whats effectively a Monkey's Paw effect is a way to keep the concept of wishes interesting.
I always like the idea presented in GT that using the dragonballs willy nilly was actually dangerous, which helps the balls themselves seem less like an ordinary thing people can use often.
I think the best explanation for the end of GT is probably the one Seth points out in his GT video, where Goku undergoes the acension to heaven. Its honestly wicked philosophical and Goku experiencing that in his purest form is really poetic and a great way to end things.
Thats gotta be a dumb ending. The best way to end something is to leave it off like its just another story. New villains show up and the gang power up and as they are about to launch into an attack, credits roll. Making a final ending makes the story done and over all together. And the point is that it will always continue
@@jamesmeppler6375 Making sure stories can continue after series is done is certainly important, but I think making a 'final' unseen fight would just get people to want more content even more, it'd kill off any sense of closure you could get from an actual ending. GT's was nice, it was a definitive end that didn't leave much room for doubt, but could still be picked up again and expanded upon if need be
I think there are a few things regarding the Black Star Dragon Balls aka Ultimate Dragon Balls you misunderstood. The Black Star Dragon Balls require the orbs to return to their resting place after a wish was made in exactly 1 year. They have to be in the lookout and stay until the 1 year time limit has passed. Otherwise the planet it is used on blows up. I think it is way too risky to use these when you can just use Porunga. I don't think Super Saiyan 4 negated the wish but Goku turning an adult is part of Super Saiyan 4's beneficial abilities as one who transforms into that form returns it's user to its physical prime. Even Vegeta changes as he gets younger when turning Super Saiyan 4. Naturon Shenron is someone people misjudge a lot. I made a video about his fight against Goku and explained why it is very overlooked. The thing I mentioned and is heavily implied is that Naturon acted most of the time as someone stupid and even hit himself with his attack to trick the enemies to absorb them. His goofy part is just a facade as the true Naturon Shenron is a satistic psychopath like Majin Vegeta. He uses other living creatures as his host and gains abilities that can be associated with them. Like absorbing a mole granted him abilities related to earth and absorbing Pan gave him the ability to fire Kamehameha. He is shown to understand what is going on with Goku's mind as he even criticized Goku for failing to go all out against him subcontiously being unable to kill Pan even if it means that the planet gets destroyed (not the exact words but the guy literally told Goku that Kamehameha times 10 was not even a times 5). I just noticed 3 + 4 = 7, which is nice seeing that 4 Star Dragon is Goku's cherished Dragon Ball and these numbers also being close together, lining up well to have Nova and Eis as siblings. According to the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files II, the wish that gave birth to Eis Shenron is the last wish to Shenron in the original Dragon Ball manga which is everyone forgetting about Boo besides the main cast. I also think it makes sense since the anime showed certain scenes before the dragon's scattered which only included the wishes that gave birth to the Shadow Dragons and the wishes included in the Perfect Files. That also includes the wish that gave birth to Syn. Mr Satan survives everything. Not even Cell nor Kid Boo can kill him. I think that's pretty funny and meant to be a gag scene. I think Goku eating the Dragon Ball shows another thing, the concept of reviving a shadow dragon with the power of positive energy. Originally Syn thought his negative energy revived Nova but it was Goku's positive energy that did. Which is why he fought of the side of good. Random fact, not sure if you like it, in the German version, Oolong wished for a hat with 2 holes for his ears and Shenron gave him panties instead. That was the dumbest but most hilarious kind of censorship because if you take it as a joke, it fits Dragon Ball. One thing you didn't mention, and I don't think is much relevant, are the Xeno version of the Shadow Dragons and their Heroes exclusive forms. I think only the latest form of Xeno Omega Shenron appeared in manga and anime (as well his Majin version). They look kinda hideous tho. The rest were video game lore only and originated from the Dark Dragon Balls. You can see them in the trailors as Xeno Omega Shenron fights Super Saiyan 3 version of the fusion of Xeno Gohan and Xeno Trunks. Not sure what he is called. But they don't appear in the manga nor anime.
Thanks for covering my bases! I appretiate this comment. I actually did know about the Xeno Shadow Dragons, but I decided to leave them out just because of how much the shadow dragons already took up the video. Also I did not know the fact about Oolong's wish, but I do like it. That is really funny.
@@toughmangaming8275 another fun fact about all the dragon balls in universe 6 and 7 were chipped off the super dragon balls. this is what Champa says in the manga before the universe 6 vs 7 arc
The Shadow Dragons are such a cool concept with such a bad execution. At least Nova is okay; I like the idea that he’s honorable because his wish was evil
I mean Oceana was kinda cool with how she got to fool people (and of course, being based on Oolong's wish...). And then that mole one (I think) could possess a person. It made them a little more serious while being weak as hell.
16:14 Raditz's bones: I think the wish may have went wrong, maybe the cost was that I'd only work untill they were out of immediate harm's way... Which for Goku was in the hands of Gohan and for Raditz.... some time before he ended up at the pale blue marble of a final destination...
To be fair, Raditz did thrive until he met Goku who was under the same protection. At that point, they both lost to Piccolo and Goku continued to thrive after being brought back to life. Raditz seems to have done much better for himself than logically makes sense. And Goku always scraped by with his life no matter the odds until he fought Raditz. Honestly, I’d argue with the vagueness of the wish, Goku making it to Grandpa Gohan and Raditz making it into Vegeta’s Crew could be the dragon considering both wishes fulfilled.
There were three Dragonball movies, too. The first ever movie has Shenron summoned in the king's monsterous stomach and purify him of his curse from the rubies. I forgot if he was summoned in the second movie with the Vampire who isn't Baba's fighter. The third is a weird retelling of Bora's death so he's revived there. There was also the retelling Path to Power were Shenron revived Eighter.
Omega shenrons aura alone was gonna destroy the Omniverse. Old Kai even said they weren’t safe in Kai realm or anywhere else that’s outside of the universe. Hes fucking broken which is fitting as the end all villain of the franchise. Power creep is crazy.
I like the idea of Goku as a "watcher for Earth" after GT It feels like Goku finally accepting Kami's suggestion that Goku become his successor, even though we still have Dende.
My headcannon is that the wish for bardock’s sons to thrive only affected them by making it so that they survived the destruction of planet Vegeta. This doesn’t retcon the original series, while also by coincidence making it more different from Superman’s backstory
30:08 Nouva and Eis being from the same arc would make them have enough of a bond to be considered brothers, Bringing Piccolo his youth and Undoing all the damage he did... The Buu memory wipe eeehhhhhh notsomuch... Maybe he came from both? Aren't there more than 7 wishes up to that point? Some dragons may have multiple, the stronger of them at-least...
2:58 I'd like to point out that sometime before that Shenron was given another upgrading adding the third wish capability as when the Frieza force revived their leader, Mai and Shu asked for Icecream and Money respectively, totaling to 3 wishes... Unless shenron was able to split a wish in half he has 3 wishes now, same thing in Super Hero... I don't remember if Piccolo was the one who asked for 2 things or Bulma... 4:28 Well there you have it.
I think the theory with the “Sons thriving wish” makes sense. They did both thrive, in their first life. Both survived Frieza’s genocide, both Raditz and Goku lived fulfilling lives. Like as a planet conqueror, Raditz was pretty fulfilled. So all things considered, the wish literally means nothing. But that could change, if they do decide to bring Raditz back somehow. But as for now, yeah it has no meaning because half the recipients died at a pitiful power level of a little over 1 saibaman against his weak little brother, half a namekian, and a toddler.
I can't believe I watch this all in one sitting 🤣 I do like it anyway, such an informative videos about all the dragon balls that's been known to this day
i think a revamped Shadow Dragon Saga would be perfect. i've always felt the Dragon Balls required consequences for their use & abuse. otherwise they feel like a dumb plot device that can just fix everything with 0 effort. undermining the story. consequences doesn't solve this problem, but it does alleviate some of it.
I don't think Goku became great due to the wish I honestly just think it effected them not dieing on planet Vegeta and considering raditz dies and never coming back
This is a fair take and thanks for sharing it! I moreso interpreted it as an explanation as to why Goku and Raditz lived to adulthood which I view to undercut the impact of the original series. That being said, I still think the two of them being fated to live even just the explosion of planet Vegeta kind of ruins the chance element related gokus survival
I'm guessing Super Shenron's only limit is he can't _directly_ interfere with Zeno, he can undo stuff he does, but not like for example... killing him.
something that a lot of people miss: if you look in the crater that omega makes before the spirit bomb is shown, you can see gokus clothes in the bottom. but he is also holding the spirit bomb.
31:40 You know... come to think of it, he kinda looks vaguely like a combination of a few Frieza force members including the tyrant himself... Except spikier.
I believe that with the Earth set, what Dende does is bump it to 3, but that the revival wish is so powerful, that wish costs 2 wishes and leaves you with only 2 wishes for that SUMMONING session. I feel like the wording in the manga leaves it pretty vague like that. And I can imagine it being something lost in the translation.
Could have mentioned that the abilities of each dragon is related to the wish they represent. Haze being pollution while upa´s father protected a forest, Oceanus shenron being the only female being born from panties (plus, just like good wishes make evil dragons and evil wishes make good dragons, Oolong´s wish looks evil at first but had good intentions, in reverese to oceanus helping the fishermentand later showing her true intentions), Naturon absorbing people like majin buu did, Omega wanting to control the universe like Frieza and killing people on his side. The only one that doesnt make much sense is the electric powers from reviving Goku. Maybe the dragon getting defeated by the weather represents the planet protecting goku like goku protects the planet?
9:23 Someone said it before, the Shenrons and other wish dragons have preferences... You be a jerk to them or their makers... You won't be returning to the living world in any condition outside how you left it... Porunga's "language barrier" probably isn't a real thing but something he made up... These dragons probably only grant the wishes cause they have nothing better to do and do it of a whim or something any rules or restrictions are ones they came up with themselves...
Exactly, especially since the Grand Elder could speak Universal Basic or whatever himself. Porunga can obviously speak it as well, refusing to take wishes in anything but Namekian might be a safety thing for the circumstances that he chooses to waive when not important.
Bardock's wish is super interesting to me because the wording is so odd.. like 'thrive' specifically is incredibly vague. To me, I personally would say that wish is how both Raditz and Goku ended up surviving the destruction of Planet Vegeta, like Raditz is a low level warrior who just so happened to not only be off world, but be off world with the literal Prince of the Saiyans, that's one hell of a coincidence. As for Goku, while he would've survived either way, I think the wish effected him by setting into motion the events that caused him to get that infamous 'bump on the head' which greatly reigned in his natural Saiyan instincts. Ultimately that's just my personal interpretation but there's no real answer for that atm.
The most suspect possible effect of the Cerealian Dragon Balls is when Goku's heart restarts against Piccolo Daimao. This is never given any further elaboration, and would have to be accepted as a complete anomaly unless we consider it an effect of the wish, essentially preventing Goku from dying until he meets Raditz.
My personal headcannon is that Nova shenron is so honorable ( borderline good) because of the 4 star ball's proximity to and time spent with Goku. His influence and reverence for it was slowly removing the minus energy or changing it to positive.
I enjoy the idea that the two dragon balls dragon is more of a monkey’s paw than actually helpful. It definitely makes sense considering that both goku and Raditz “thrive” until they meet. Since they both want the other dead, well, the cost kicks in and takes both of them. But goku being revived feels like he escapes the effects because sure he beats nappa easily. He does not bear Vegeta and probably would’ve died not for his friends intervention. He did die in the cell saga, no wish stopping that from happening. He also might’ve lost to kid Buu if it wasn’t for the wish to restore his power. He failed to beat beerus. He would’ve lost to Frieza if it wasn’t for whis. After that then I can maybe see the BS wish kicking in. Also side note but the idea that goku got cannonical plot armor and people were mad is really funny to me. I love dragon ball but come on. He’s always had the bs kick in for him.
A few other facts you missed! 1) Ultimate Shenron is the only (Pure Dragon) Shenron which is able to be fought against in any game 2) There are actually Namekian Shadow Dragons, but they are the same as the regular s.d 3) The Shadow Dragons have an Super Form 4) Xeno Oceanus Shenron has a different appearance, and Xeno Omega has been Majin and has had a “Demonic Form”
This was a great video! Thank you for creating and sharing this with us all. I’ve been a fan of Dragon Ball from early on, but only have read all of Z. I haven’t read much of the original Dragon Ball manga or yet watched the anime, nor have I had a chance to start GT. I’ve TRIED to keep up on Super, but there was a large chunk I missed and haven’t been able to get to just yet. Also only have seen a bit of heroes. So there’s a LOT I need to get to. This was great to know and a great refresher on the actual lore that I haven’t read or watched for quite some time. Thank you for putting so much effort into this.
Super doing the whole wish by Bardock thing was incredibly stupid and a needless retcon. It also rubs salt in the wound that is Raditz, a character who was utterly wasted. I also hate the retconning of the Broly movie, both for Broly himself, along with Bardock being an "unSaiyan like Saiyan male" and Gine being an actually really loving, good person. It makes them less like Saiyans and more just generic good people, because "Goku is a good person, so his parents must have been good too!" It completely removes the nurture aspect that grandpa Gohan had, not to mention all his other masters having a positive effect on Goku. Also, Gine crying and begging Goku to never forget them, only for Goku to then later state that he doesn't care AT ALL about his parents is like rubbing lemon juice in on top of salt in a wound.
The number of she tons wishes thing is actually a very common mistake due to the wording in the English versions of the series. She ton never was only able to use two wishes. The limitation is that whenever shenron grants a wish to resurrect multiple people it uses two wishes lowering the total for that summoning to 2. He only ever was capable of 1 or 3 wishes there's just a very specific caveat where a type of wish he specifically can grant costs 2 rather than 1.
25:48 I'm fairly certain that's supposed to be Pan's orange bandana tied on Naturon Shenron's horn. I have vague memories of that episode, but I think Pan didn't have her bandana when she got absorbed. I'm actually surprised the wikia didn't even mention it at all.
One correction. Shenron can actually grant three wishes after being upgraded. The caveat is that reviving multiple people with one wish uses up two of those three wishes meaning if you revive multiple people with one of your wishes you only get two wishes. Otherwise you get three.
What about Pokopoko from Dragon Ball Online? Also, long before we knew about the how the Cerealean dragon only had 2 Dragonballs, Akira Toriyama teased a 9 Star Ball too (I believe during the buildup to Supers release iirc). Feel like those should be mentioned. Other than that - this is a great resource
You Could Of Added Chronoa's Shenron, That Big Dragon That Is Around Conton City I Don't Think We Know Much Other That She "Accidentally" Made Him That Way, But Still
Mr Satan survives a kick from omega because he held back hitting Mr Satan just like when fat buu bitchslapped him on Kai world or when cell did or kid buu or bojack blasted me satan,ect,ect. Nobody takes him seriously and just holds back vs him.
I thought the two wishes thing for Shenron was a way to say that mass resurrection uses 2 wishes out of 3 if you do wish for it, not that it limits Shenron to 2 wishes total
I think the reason why they wouldn't have used the Black Star set is because they didn't think it was worth it. Pilaf basically forced their habds by using that set anyway.
For your information: "Takkarapto Tottoronbo pupiritto paro" is simply the summoning call for Toronbo in namekian dialect. For reference the summoning call for Namek's Porunga is "Takkarapto Poporunga pupiritto paro" in the manga.
You know, in hindsight, it would have made for an amusing plot point that the more benevolent the wish that created them the more powerful/villainous the Shadow Dragon was... Which would uave probably made Oceanus a weird outlier, as the wish was a "Wrong wish, for the right reasons" situation and the one that came from Piccolo restoring his youth might have been comparatively weak, but willing to "do the right thing" in the end.
Since the wish granting dragons are sentient, I assume Parunga granting the Goku/King Kai's wish is because he knows those guys. He MUST respond to a summons and a wish given in Namekian, because those are the rules. He can choose to translate another language into Namekian in his head, if he wants to, though.
One thing to note: its a common misconception that the one time revival rule is just that, the rule is you can't get revived twice. Thats actually not true, the FULL rule is you cannot make the same wish to the dragon a second time, Goku reveals this fairly early in Z before Vegeta and Nappa show up, the no second revival is just a symptom of that, and we see in the Cell saga that even wording it differently doesnt work as Goku still isnt revived. If the effect would make him redo a wish hes already granted, he'll ignore that part of the wish and grant the rest
I don’t think the Bardock wish ruins anything when you remember the fact that the wish was made on both Raditz and Goku And well- Raditz is dead so I think the only thing the wish did was allow them to live a relatively happy life and that’s about it
@RustyRants it's stated in the cell arc when dende becomes god if earth but gets kinda muddled in the buu arc when they're wishing people back after majin vegeta
What happened to goku was vague but according to his voice actress “we didn’t put a halo on Goku because it would be obvious” but everyone (in the sub) asks Goku “are you” implying dead because he died from the blast from omega, then he made a deal with shenron who made him invulnerable,at least to omega and then they fused because Goku has positive energy for the dragonball’s and they leave the earth for 100 years. Then the earth after proving they can survive without the balls, does in fact get the balls back.
I know its a few months late but I wanted to ask about the “Omnificence Crystal” from Dragon Ball Legends, which in that continuity, it’s a predecessor of the Super Dragon Balls
The super dragon balls have to have limits, because then you could wish for infinite wishes, that at least has to be a rule, or else you think someone would have done that. Or wish to be stronger then Zen-Oh, or wish that you get whatever you want forever.
So considering the granola arc dragon grants wishes beyond his power at the cost of something of the wisher... And bardock wished for his sons to thrive, one of which went from an extremely low powerlevel and weaker than some humans to then being the one to defeat the Saiyans' oppressor and even achieve the strength of the gods... The drawback mustve been huge... Planetary size even... (Im implying that this retcon implies bardock doomed his own species and planet to let Goku thrive so much. I hate this implication and this wish)
2 minutes in&shenron already sounds like a fraud bro is the Saul Goodman of wish granting dragons “uhhhh maybe lemme see ah sorry man my master is too weak😬”
The idea that shenron got sick with everyone just making wishes like a he was a goddamn vending machine was a pretty cool villain story imo
Yup😂
Like how it was entertained with somewhat even in Z via Old Kai who rightfully recognised that abuse for the bullshit it was.
The concept behind the Shadow Dragons and their existence being a result of abusing Shenron and being selfish with their wishes was good. The execution of that concept was poor. Also, we get confirmation that Bulma summons him every year to look *slightly* younger and for no other reason which I feel like needs to have consequences but we'll never see that happen.
@@hitkid2456would also be a good throwback that his advice actually had weight, that this is less "mortals should follow their own path" and more "do you want another Buu-tier threat roaming the cosmos?"
Also, given how Super proved that Shin is in fact an inept god and being "free range" with his morties is verifiable proven TERRIBLE idea, if Old Kai's advice on dragon ball abuse held weight you could see he had the potential to set Shin straight and make Universe 7 great again
@@ForeverLaxxI feel like shenron is just ok with that, though bc she states its to keep them on cd and stop random villains from grabbing them
You just made me realize, the dragon balls restore bodies ONLY if they actually like the person they're helping lmao, Frieza is an opp so he got the most inconvenient revival possible.
The dragon will "add something extra" if you chill with him or straight up "here are the pieces you didnt wish for him to be healthy" from Aladin to monkey dependin on your friendship
Shenron being biased is actually so funny. He gives Piccolo an extra power just because and he revives Frieza in pieces because fuck that guy
@@matti.8465to be fair Piccolo has Kami, who created Shenron. I too would prefer my dad over some random gang leader.
fun fact, in xenoverse 2 Omega Shenron and Beerus has a special dialogue. The dialogue in summary is Omega Shenron berating Beerus on how he let the dragon balls go bad while Beerus retorts by saying that he's not in charge of the dragon ball
That is very interesting, thanks
@@dellanpickle np
I love the minor additions like that, in XV2 Elder Kai mentions that The Tree Of Might was supposed to be a ceremonial type event and its fruit is Only meant to be consumed by the Kais/Gods...
I’ve always liked how the Shadow Dragons- particularly Nuova Shenron -grant a kind of ‘consciousness’ or individuality to the Dragon Balls themselves. Like, due to being the Four Star Ball, Nuova has a particular sentimental attachment to Goku- even beyond just being kind of a cool guy because his wish didn’t need to let off negative energy.
Makes you wonder if the Cerealian Dragon Balls are, like, weird fucked up guys at this point considering they’re in the unique position of pretty much directly being used to kill someone.
I always figured the monkey's paw nature of the Cerelian dragon balls helps vent the negativity that could be built up by any wish.
I feel like the reason nuova shenron isn’t as evil as the others is because he was kinda prayed to in og dragon ball before goku learns the truth plus it being near so many people who sends out positive energy seems to mellow him out to late cell saga vegeta
"How many balls does Shenron have?"
Craziest sentence ive heard yet
Safe to say it's greater than a certain someone with a particular mastema. But it's probably possible to have even more, I suppose.
Even more crazy that it’s a completely logical statement/question in the context of DBZ/DBS
If you don't know anything about dragon ball it might be crazy....but to people who do, its so far from crazy id be concerned over how you personally define words, must not be using the normal definitions and just making your own meaning up.
You must be a bag of balloons
That oolong guy really coming in clutch with the dumb wishes before the villains can edge dramatically before their wish is granted.
Raditz did *not* thrive, man. He was the weakest surviving Saiyan, still forced to serve under the guy who genocided his race, and then he fucking died.
counterpoint, he didn't mind the whole genocide thing, and he technically had the same job Bardock had at the time. also, the original Japanese translates to something along the lines of " I wish my sons grow up to be big strong men" which Raditz kinda did before he died
At the time, Raditz was actually the second weakest surviving Saiyan, which is still pretty bad; but he was also the third strongest surviving Saiyan, which is pretty good!
@@xxTerpsichore vegetas brother turbles, that pirate turtle and some of his crew members, broly, paragasus, they existed withing raditz his lifetime so you're wrong about your numbers.
@@youtubestudiosucks978 🤓
@@xxTerpsichore learn to count
(i have not read the super manga yer but) my theory for the bardock wish is that it simply allowed goku and raditz to survive the destruction of planet vegeta and nothing more (which explains why raditz didnt "thrive" as much as goku even though he was included in the wish)
This is obviously better than making the entirety of the series pointless but it does still affect the entire point of the saiyan saga, which was that goku, being thought of as a weakling, was sent to planet earth where he became a good person, met incredible people, and managed to get powers and abilities that could rival the evil saiyan "elite"
He still did all that. Bardock didn’t influence him at all
Nearly an hour for a minor topic nobody gives much of a thought... Yep this is the content I live for.
Its basically like asking how many letters are in the alphabet. We already know and doing a video about what we already know seems worse that being out of ideas. But if you like hearing stuff we already know.....no wonder no one makes new good stuff anymore. Its all horribly regurgitated stuff. That we all thought we heard enough about to never need an exposition dump.
Since exposition dumps are supposed to tell us stuff we don't know, at all. Whats the point
I was mild on the idea of Cerualian Dragon balls, but at the very least adding whats effectively a Monkey's Paw effect is a way to keep the concept of wishes interesting.
I always like the idea presented in GT that using the dragonballs willy nilly was actually dangerous, which helps the balls themselves seem less like an ordinary thing people can use often.
I think the best explanation for the end of GT is probably the one Seth points out in his GT video, where Goku undergoes the acension to heaven. Its honestly wicked philosophical and Goku experiencing that in his purest form is really poetic and a great way to end things.
Thats gotta be a dumb ending. The best way to end something is to leave it off like its just another story. New villains show up and the gang power up and as they are about to launch into an attack, credits roll. Making a final ending makes the story done and over all together. And the point is that it will always continue
@@jamesmeppler6375 Making sure stories can continue after series is done is certainly important, but I think making a 'final' unseen fight would just get people to want more content even more, it'd kill off any sense of closure you could get from an actual ending. GT's was nice, it was a definitive end that didn't leave much room for doubt, but could still be picked up again and expanded upon if need be
I think there are a few things regarding the Black Star Dragon Balls aka Ultimate Dragon Balls you misunderstood. The Black Star Dragon Balls require the orbs to return to their resting place after a wish was made in exactly 1 year. They have to be in the lookout and stay until the 1 year time limit has passed. Otherwise the planet it is used on blows up. I think it is way too risky to use these when you can just use Porunga.
I don't think Super Saiyan 4 negated the wish but Goku turning an adult is part of Super Saiyan 4's beneficial abilities as one who transforms into that form returns it's user to its physical prime. Even Vegeta changes as he gets younger when turning Super Saiyan 4.
Naturon Shenron is someone people misjudge a lot. I made a video about his fight against Goku and explained why it is very overlooked. The thing I mentioned and is heavily implied is that Naturon acted most of the time as someone stupid and even hit himself with his attack to trick the enemies to absorb them. His goofy part is just a facade as the true Naturon Shenron is a satistic psychopath like Majin Vegeta. He uses other living creatures as his host and gains abilities that can be associated with them. Like absorbing a mole granted him abilities related to earth and absorbing Pan gave him the ability to fire Kamehameha. He is shown to understand what is going on with Goku's mind as he even criticized Goku for failing to go all out against him subcontiously being unable to kill Pan even if it means that the planet gets destroyed (not the exact words but the guy literally told Goku that Kamehameha times 10 was not even a times 5).
I just noticed 3 + 4 = 7, which is nice seeing that 4 Star Dragon is Goku's cherished Dragon Ball and these numbers also being close together, lining up well to have Nova and Eis as siblings.
According to the Dragon Ball GT Perfect Files II, the wish that gave birth to Eis Shenron is the last wish to Shenron in the original Dragon Ball manga which is everyone forgetting about Boo besides the main cast. I also think it makes sense since the anime showed certain scenes before the dragon's scattered which only included the wishes that gave birth to the Shadow Dragons and the wishes included in the Perfect Files. That also includes the wish that gave birth to Syn.
Mr Satan survives everything. Not even Cell nor Kid Boo can kill him. I think that's pretty funny and meant to be a gag scene.
I think Goku eating the Dragon Ball shows another thing, the concept of reviving a shadow dragon with the power of positive energy. Originally Syn thought his negative energy revived Nova but it was Goku's positive energy that did. Which is why he fought of the side of good.
Random fact, not sure if you like it, in the German version, Oolong wished for a hat with 2 holes for his ears and Shenron gave him panties instead. That was the dumbest but most hilarious kind of censorship because if you take it as a joke, it fits Dragon Ball.
One thing you didn't mention, and I don't think is much relevant, are the Xeno version of the Shadow Dragons and their Heroes exclusive forms. I think only the latest form of Xeno Omega Shenron appeared in manga and anime (as well his Majin version). They look kinda hideous tho. The rest were video game lore only and originated from the Dark Dragon Balls. You can see them in the trailors as Xeno Omega Shenron fights Super Saiyan 3 version of the fusion of Xeno Gohan and Xeno Trunks. Not sure what he is called. But they don't appear in the manga nor anime.
Thanks for covering my bases! I appretiate this comment. I actually did know about the Xeno Shadow Dragons, but I decided to leave them out just because of how much the shadow dragons already took up the video. Also I did not know the fact about Oolong's wish, but I do like it. That is really funny.
@@toughmangaming8275 another fun fact about all the dragon balls in universe 6 and 7 were chipped off the super dragon balls. this is what Champa says in the manga before the universe 6 vs 7 arc
The Shadow Dragons are such a cool concept with such a bad execution. At least Nova is okay; I like the idea that he’s honorable because his wish was evil
What about omega?
@@ty.shota23 cool design but just a bland strong guy
I mean Oceana was kinda cool with how she got to fool people (and of course, being based on Oolong's wish...). And then that mole one (I think) could possess a person. It made them a little more serious while being weak as hell.
Very informative, Now I can confidently argue against the DBZ verse in arguments with my friends
14:50 I and I'm sure everyone else who knows water based lizards vaguely would more compare those to the frills of for example, an Axolotl...
18:56 Probably was a: "Yeah, it's better if _nobody_ knows about these things" kind of situation...
The concept of the shadow dragons were so peak but man they were just a disappointment, most of them anyways.
16:14 Raditz's bones:
I think the wish may have went wrong, maybe the cost was that I'd only work untill they were out of immediate harm's way... Which for Goku was in the hands of Gohan and for Raditz.... some time before he ended up at the pale blue marble of a final destination...
To be fair, Raditz did thrive until he met Goku who was under the same protection. At that point, they both lost to Piccolo and Goku continued to thrive after being brought back to life.
Raditz seems to have done much better for himself than logically makes sense. And Goku always scraped by with his life no matter the odds until he fought Raditz.
Honestly, I’d argue with the vagueness of the wish, Goku making it to Grandpa Gohan and Raditz making it into Vegeta’s Crew could be the dragon considering both wishes fulfilled.
@TheOriginalCFA1979 "They're alive enough, peace." -The dragon
There were three Dragonball movies, too. The first ever movie has Shenron summoned in the king's monsterous stomach and purify him of his curse from the rubies. I forgot if he was summoned in the second movie with the Vampire who isn't Baba's fighter. The third is a weird retelling of Bora's death so he's revived there. There was also the retelling Path to Power were Shenron revived Eighter.
Pretty cool informative video
And it also has Omega Shenron in it which makes it more awesome
Omega shenrons aura alone was gonna destroy the Omniverse. Old Kai even said they weren’t safe in Kai realm or anywhere else that’s outside of the universe. Hes fucking broken which is fitting as the end all villain of the franchise. Power creep is crazy.
The Kaioishin Realm is considered part of the universe per canon cosmology. GT was made before that was formalised though.
I like the idea of Goku as a "watcher for Earth" after GT
It feels like Goku finally accepting Kami's suggestion that Goku become his successor, even though we still have Dende.
My headcannon is that the wish for bardock’s sons to thrive only affected them by making it so that they survived the destruction of planet Vegeta. This doesn’t retcon the original series, while also by coincidence making it more different from Superman’s backstory
I think its funny that the language of the gods that super shenron speaks is literally just regular speech but backwards
30:08 Nouva and Eis being from the same arc would make them have enough of a bond to be considered brothers, Bringing Piccolo his youth and Undoing all the damage he did... The Buu memory wipe eeehhhhhh notsomuch... Maybe he came from both? Aren't there more than 7 wishes up to that point? Some dragons may have multiple, the stronger of them at-least...
2:58 I'd like to point out that sometime before that Shenron was given another upgrading adding the third wish capability as when the Frieza force revived their leader, Mai and Shu asked for Icecream and Money respectively, totaling to 3 wishes... Unless shenron was able to split a wish in half he has 3 wishes now, same thing in Super Hero... I don't remember if Piccolo was the one who asked for 2 things or Bulma...
4:28 Well there you have it.
Misread the thumbnail and thought this man was about to claim Shenron wasn't canon to Dragonball.
I think the theory with the “Sons thriving wish” makes sense. They did both thrive, in their first life. Both survived Frieza’s genocide, both Raditz and Goku lived fulfilling lives. Like as a planet conqueror, Raditz was pretty fulfilled. So all things considered, the wish literally means nothing. But that could change, if they do decide to bring Raditz back somehow. But as for now, yeah it has no meaning because half the recipients died at a pitiful power level of a little over 1 saibaman against his weak little brother, half a namekian, and a toddler.
how poetic, we start with oolong, and we end with oolong, they even went through the effort of making the same pose!
I can't believe I watch this all in one sitting 🤣 I do like it anyway, such an informative videos about all the dragon balls that's been known to this day
Omega Shenron's statement would imply that SS4 Gogeta might be on par with SSBSS Vegito from Super's Zamasu arc or Gogeta from Broly's fight.
i think a revamped Shadow Dragon Saga would be perfect. i've always felt the Dragon Balls required consequences for their use & abuse. otherwise they feel like a dumb plot device that can just fix everything with 0 effort. undermining the story. consequences doesn't solve this problem, but it does alleviate some of it.
Same I especially hate bulma using the dragon balls to look younger in Dragonball super hero. But then again bulmas always been a terrible character
I don't think Goku became great due to the wish I honestly just think it effected them not dieing on planet Vegeta and considering raditz dies and never coming back
This is a fair take and thanks for sharing it! I moreso interpreted it as an explanation as to why Goku and Raditz lived to adulthood which I view to undercut the impact of the original series. That being said, I still think the two of them being fated to live even just the explosion of planet Vegeta kind of ruins the chance element related gokus survival
It at least removes some of Goku’s origin being a one for one copy of Kal-el
@@thelittlebosniaexperience8181good way to look at it
I'm guessing Super Shenron's only limit is he can't _directly_ interfere with Zeno, he can undo stuff he does, but not like for example... killing him.
something that a lot of people miss: if you look in the crater that omega makes before the spirit bomb is shown, you can see gokus clothes in the bottom. but he is also holding the spirit bomb.
31:40 You know... come to think of it, he kinda looks vaguely like a combination of a few Frieza force members including the tyrant himself...
Except spikier.
I believe that with the Earth set, what Dende does is bump it to 3, but that the revival wish is so powerful, that wish costs 2 wishes and leaves you with only 2 wishes for that SUMMONING session.
I feel like the wording in the manga leaves it pretty vague like that. And I can imagine it being something lost in the translation.
Could have mentioned that the abilities of each dragon is related to the wish they represent. Haze being pollution while upa´s father protected a forest, Oceanus shenron being the only female being born from panties (plus, just like good wishes make evil dragons and evil wishes make good dragons, Oolong´s wish looks evil at first but had good intentions, in reverese to oceanus helping the fishermentand later showing her true intentions), Naturon absorbing people like majin buu did, Omega wanting to control the universe like Frieza and killing people on his side. The only one that doesnt make much sense is the electric powers from reviving Goku. Maybe the dragon getting defeated by the weather represents the planet protecting goku like goku protects the planet?
9:23 Someone said it before, the Shenrons and other wish dragons have preferences... You be a jerk to them or their makers... You won't be returning to the living world in any condition outside how you left it...
Porunga's "language barrier" probably isn't a real thing but something he made up... These dragons probably only grant the wishes cause they have nothing better to do and do it of a whim or something any rules or restrictions are ones they came up with themselves...
Exactly, especially since the Grand Elder could speak Universal Basic or whatever himself. Porunga can obviously speak it as well, refusing to take wishes in anything but Namekian might be a safety thing for the circumstances that he chooses to waive when not important.
@@Supahdenning Porunga literally replies in the basic universal language himself too hilariously enough...
Seeing Sin show up one day in Super as a god of destruction would be absolutely WILD
Bardock's wish is super interesting to me because the wording is so odd.. like 'thrive' specifically is incredibly vague. To me, I personally would say that wish is how both Raditz and Goku ended up surviving the destruction of Planet Vegeta, like Raditz is a low level warrior who just so happened to not only be off world, but be off world with the literal Prince of the Saiyans, that's one hell of a coincidence. As for Goku, while he would've survived either way, I think the wish effected him by setting into motion the events that caused him to get that infamous 'bump on the head' which greatly reigned in his natural Saiyan instincts. Ultimately that's just my personal interpretation but there's no real answer for that atm.
The most suspect possible effect of the Cerealian Dragon Balls is when Goku's heart restarts against Piccolo Daimao. This is never given any further elaboration, and would have to be accepted as a complete anomaly unless we consider it an effect of the wish, essentially preventing Goku from dying until he meets Raditz.
My personal headcannon is that Nova shenron is so honorable ( borderline good) because of the 4 star ball's proximity to and time spent with Goku. His influence and reverence for it was slowly removing the minus energy or changing it to positive.
Toronbo’s head “wings” look like an Axolotl’s gills, they remind me of an axolotl’s antlers with frills, which are their gills.
32:30 Nobody can kill Hercule.
The one part of Resurrection F doesn't count. He was perfectly fine on a fragment of Earth shrapnel.
I enjoy the idea that the two dragon balls dragon is more of a monkey’s paw than actually helpful. It definitely makes sense considering that both goku and Raditz “thrive” until they meet. Since they both want the other dead, well, the cost kicks in and takes both of them.
But goku being revived feels like he escapes the effects because sure he beats nappa easily. He does not bear Vegeta and probably would’ve died not for his friends intervention. He did die in the cell saga, no wish stopping that from happening. He also might’ve lost to kid Buu if it wasn’t for the wish to restore his power. He failed to beat beerus. He would’ve lost to Frieza if it wasn’t for whis. After that then I can maybe see the BS wish kicking in.
Also side note but the idea that goku got cannonical plot armor and people were mad is really funny to me. I love dragon ball but come on. He’s always had the bs kick in for him.
im gonna be a nerd and point out that the feathered appendages on toronbo are probably gills
New Toughman Gaming Video? Sick
27:14 Does this mean Super Saiyan 4 Goku can at least temporarily survive the heat of the sun.
I think so!
A few other facts you missed!
1) Ultimate Shenron is the only (Pure Dragon) Shenron which is able to be fought against in any game
2) There are actually Namekian Shadow Dragons, but they are the same as the regular s.d
3) The Shadow Dragons have an Super Form
4) Xeno Oceanus Shenron has a different appearance, and Xeno Omega has been Majin and has had a “Demonic Form”
This was a great video! Thank you for creating and sharing this with us all. I’ve been a fan of Dragon Ball from early on, but only have read all of Z. I haven’t read much of the original Dragon Ball manga or yet watched the anime, nor have I had a chance to start GT. I’ve TRIED to keep up on Super, but there was a large chunk I missed and haven’t been able to get to just yet. Also only have seen a bit of heroes. So there’s a LOT I need to get to. This was great to know and a great refresher on the actual lore that I haven’t read or watched for quite some time. Thank you for putting so much effort into this.
Wow you've got so many cool videos. I've got some binge watching to do!
Super doing the whole wish by Bardock thing was incredibly stupid and a needless retcon. It also rubs salt in the wound that is Raditz, a character who was utterly wasted.
I also hate the retconning of the Broly movie, both for Broly himself, along with Bardock being an "unSaiyan like Saiyan male" and Gine being an actually really loving, good person. It makes them less like Saiyans and more just generic good people, because "Goku is a good person, so his parents must have been good too!" It completely removes the nurture aspect that grandpa Gohan had, not to mention all his other masters having a positive effect on Goku.
Also, Gine crying and begging Goku to never forget them, only for Goku to then later state that he doesn't care AT ALL about his parents is like rubbing lemon juice in on top of salt in a wound.
You misunderstood the shenron upgrade. He gets 3 wishes, but if you want to revive multiple people it then goes down to 2.
I was looking for this
The number of she tons wishes thing is actually a very common mistake due to the wording in the English versions of the series. She ton never was only able to use two wishes. The limitation is that whenever shenron grants a wish to resurrect multiple people it uses two wishes lowering the total for that summoning to 2. He only ever was capable of 1 or 3 wishes there's just a very specific caveat where a type of wish he specifically can grant costs 2 rather than 1.
25:48
I'm fairly certain that's supposed to be Pan's orange bandana tied on Naturon Shenron's horn. I have vague memories of that episode, but I think Pan didn't have her bandana when she got absorbed. I'm actually surprised the wikia didn't even mention it at all.
One correction. Shenron can actually grant three wishes after being upgraded. The caveat is that reviving multiple people with one wish uses up two of those three wishes meaning if you revive multiple people with one of your wishes you only get two wishes. Otherwise you get three.
Toughman Gaming... Peak.
This was very well done.
What about Pokopoko from Dragon Ball Online? Also, long before we knew about the how the Cerealean dragon only had 2 Dragonballs, Akira Toriyama teased a 9 Star Ball too (I believe during the buildup to Supers release iirc). Feel like those should be mentioned. Other than that - this is a great resource
You Could Of Added Chronoa's Shenron, That Big Dragon That Is Around Conton City
I Don't Think We Know Much Other That She "Accidentally" Made Him That Way, But Still
When they made the wish with the black star dragon balls, I guess they didn't turn to stone like the normal ones.
This is my first time seeing anything about Dragon Ball Heroes. Evil Dende is hilarious and sounds like something from a wattpad fanfic.
Mr Satan survives a kick from omega because he held back hitting Mr Satan just like when fat buu bitchslapped him on Kai world or when cell did or kid buu or bojack blasted me satan,ect,ect. Nobody takes him seriously and just holds back vs him.
Thx for this vid sir
I thought the two wishes thing for Shenron was a way to say that mass resurrection uses 2 wishes out of 3 if you do wish for it, not that it limits Shenron to 2 wishes total
I think the reason why they wouldn't have used the Black Star set is because they didn't think it was worth it. Pilaf basically forced their habds by using that set anyway.
For your information: "Takkarapto Tottoronbo pupiritto paro" is simply the summoning call for Toronbo in namekian dialect. For reference the summoning call for Namek's Porunga is "Takkarapto Poporunga pupiritto paro" in the manga.
You know, in hindsight, it would have made for an amusing plot point that the more benevolent the wish that created them the more powerful/villainous the Shadow Dragon was...
Which would uave probably made Oceanus a weird outlier, as the wish was a "Wrong wish, for the right reasons" situation and the one that came from Piccolo restoring his youth might have been comparatively weak, but willing to "do the right thing" in the end.
28:40 ... Uh... Didn't all 7 of them spawn forth from the same dragon? Aren't they all the same person or at-least all siblings?
Can’t wait for Daima to finish up just for the reupload with the demon realm dragon balls
You are very underrated
The ending for gt would be nice to replicate with goku dying and ending the reliance on the dragon balls
Shadow dragons where so freaking cool
Nova Shenron: I only use this form so I don't emit too much heat.
Me:How you were literally born today, this is literally your first fight.
Since the wish granting dragons are sentient, I assume Parunga granting the Goku/King Kai's wish is because he knows those guys. He MUST respond to a summons and a wish given in Namekian, because those are the rules. He can choose to translate another language into Namekian in his head, if he wants to, though.
12:42 actually he can grant any wish, just as long as zeno or the grand priest doesn't interfere
Torobon’s “feather like wings” are actually probably supposed to be gills similar to an axolotl
One thing to note: its a common misconception that the one time revival rule is just that, the rule is you can't get revived twice.
Thats actually not true, the FULL rule is you cannot make the same wish to the dragon a second time, Goku reveals this fairly early in Z before Vegeta and Nappa show up, the no second revival is just a symptom of that, and we see in the Cell saga that even wording it differently doesnt work as Goku still isnt revived.
If the effect would make him redo a wish hes already granted, he'll ignore that part of the wish and grant the rest
Super dragon balls, or planet size and the dragon space is the size of a galaxy😅 14:29
I don’t think the Bardock wish ruins anything when you remember the fact that the wish was made on both Raditz and Goku
And well- Raditz is dead so
I think the only thing the wish did was allow them to live a relatively happy life and that’s about it
I love Purunga not needing to resurrect many people at once cause the Namekians never really had a genocide on em
It's 3 wishes on Shenron UNLESS they resurrect a group that costs 2 wishes that's why it seems they only have 2 wishes
Is this stated or do we just kinda have to take this as fact because there’s no other explanation
@RustyRants it's stated in the cell arc when dende becomes god if earth but gets kinda muddled in the buu arc when they're wishing people back after majin vegeta
Porunga was used in GT
What happened to goku was vague but according to his voice actress “we didn’t put a halo on Goku because it would be obvious” but everyone (in the sub) asks Goku “are you” implying dead because he died from the blast from omega, then he made a deal with shenron who made him invulnerable,at least to omega and then they fused because Goku has positive energy for the dragonball’s and they leave the earth for 100 years. Then the earth after proving they can survive without the balls, does in fact get the balls back.
I haven't seen anyone mention it, but in Dragon Ball Legends there is a prototype dragon ball.
18 actually became human and 17 stayed upon hos request
Does this mean Raditz was not his son as Raditz ended up dying and therebu not thriving?
Shenlong has a fucking loyalty system lol i love it
I know its a few months late but I wanted to ask about the “Omnificence Crystal” from Dragon Ball Legends, which in that continuity, it’s a predecessor of the Super Dragon Balls
The super dragon balls have to have limits, because then you could wish for infinite wishes, that at least has to be a rule, or else you think someone would have done that. Or wish to be stronger then Zen-Oh, or wish that you get whatever you want forever.
based toughman gaming upload
Bardock wish is mistranslated. The original translation is that I wish my son would grow up big and strong
So considering the granola arc dragon grants wishes beyond his power at the cost of something of the wisher...
And bardock wished for his sons to thrive, one of which went from an extremely low powerlevel and weaker than some humans to then being the one to defeat the Saiyans' oppressor and even achieve the strength of the gods...
The drawback mustve been huge...
Planetary size even...
(Im implying that this retcon implies bardock doomed his own species and planet to let Goku thrive so much. I hate this implication and this wish)
Nah i actually fw that implication a ton, i mean its not like bardock KNEW that would happen but that puts an interesting spin on it fs
2 minutes in&shenron already sounds like a fraud bro is the Saul Goodman of wish granting dragons “uhhhh maybe lemme see ah sorry man my master is too weak😬”
Nobody: 🧍♂️
Poronga: 👌
Ultimate Shenron looks/feels like a more inspired Super Shenron imo.
it would be cool plot-wise if Piccolo had to sacrifice himself in order to stop a bad wish. Too bad everyone is too strong now for that to happen lol
Rip toriyama