I'm still blown away that you brought Bob Lutz to the channel. He was the biggest name in the car world when I was growing up. I remember his name mentioned in so many car magazine feature stories and the like. What a legend!
I worked at a Pontiac dealer when this came out. We parked our first Aztec we got in, out front. A yellow one. Just after , a couple walked by out front and the lady exclaimed “that is the ugliest car I’ve seen in all my fkn life!!” It was a had to be there moment
Particularly because Pontiac still had an image of being wide, low and cool looking starting with the 1959's and the first Grand Prix. Like he said, the opposite of the Pontiac image.
It's too bad he wasn't at GM sooner. He would have made sure the Aztek was a good enough looking vehicle. If it looked like the Vibe, it would have been a hit.
“Everybody got on the bus and helped drive it off a cliff”. That is the best metaphor I’ve ever heard. But the “you can’t change reality with enthusiasm” is amazing.
Dude has aged well, even chomping them fat cigars lol. I thought he was 75 to 80. He was extremely articulate in this interview as well, summed up GM's culture problem better than anything I've heard or read about in just this 10 minute interview.
I came very close to buying a new Aztek, liking everything about it and especially the looks. But the test drive revealed an extremely soft suspension and oceanic level lean. I wound up buying a Grand Prix GTP instead, which I still own, drive and love.
I hate the overly firm suspensions of the newer cars. The Aztek was never supposed to be a sports car. On a long trip, the softer suspension, for me, is greatly appreciated than one that keeps the passengers uncomfortable by shaking them to pieces even if it means dealing with body lean on the corners.
The original concept as envisioned by Design had sporty proportions and a stance consistent with Pontiac's performance image. The production Aztek revealled what happens when the innovative concept was forced to conform in size and shape to a short wheelbase minivan platform.
Thank you for the inside story on the Aztek. My dad, who was in retail automotive for years and then retired, took his car into the local Pontiac / Buick dealer for service. While there, he walked into the showroom to see a new Aztek front and center with the tent option stretched out behind the vehicle. He walked around it a couple of times and couldn't believe his eyes. A salesman appeared and asked him what he thought. "Well," dad said, "You've got the tent stretched out the wrong way. You should go forward with it and try and cover this thing up."
This interviews are pure GOLD! Please keep on doing this stuff I think these are the best contents in your channel man, enabling these legendary people to sharing their knowledge before it is lost.
Great insights into the Pontiac Aztek development. The ugly sister analogy was funny. The Buick Rendezvous was a much better seller and I think Mr. Lutz is correct that if the Aztek was a GMC it might have done better.
Another great interview and video. The Aztec really injured Pontiac single handedly but it represents a culture of compromise and blind leadership. Love Lute's ugly sister analogy and it is still ugly by today's standards.
I've always felt that Bob Lutz got a raw deal by being blamed for GM's bankruptcy. If only he could've kept improving their cars I think GM would be back on top of the world. Just look at what they were producing in 2001 compared to 2009 n how far n better the vehicles were.
GM was dead man walking in the late seventies- any car company that had a culture that fostered and then appointed Roger Smith to run it in 1981 was doomed.
@@gordtulk I remember that guy. I was a kid, & didn’t graduate high school until ’84. Roger Smith was on the news all the time! My dad was management at GM, & so was his brother. My oldest brother was hourly at GM, too. Later, he went into mgmt as well. Nobody liked Roger Smith. Nobody.
Good point. He was improving their products steadily but ran out of time. Several more years would have achieved the objective. They deteriorated over decades but he was supposed to fix it in a few years...
I felt the same way about Bob Lutz getting a bad deal with GM and the bankruptcy. The problem was that Lutz was the right guy to fix the problems...but 10 years too late. He didn't have much of a chance.
@@codyluka8355 He was also considered to be insensitive and a blaspheme to the new religion of climate hysteria. Cow farts and volcanic eruptions is what I recall he mentioning at the time, which made me like him even more. Sad to think that it only took the climastrologists [spelling intentional] less than two decades to find ways of using cows' methane release as an excuse to begin destroying the livelihood of farmers. What's happening in the Netherlands is just the beginning.
Awesome interview with Bob, if we only had intelligent people at GM nowadays they would actually build quality vehicles outside of the NEW Corvette and Suburban. Rest of the line up from GM needs total revamp and focus on reliability...keep it simple GM, don't flood your vehicles with electronic gimmicks. Start using quality parts that will last past the warranty period.
The Pontiac Aztec is a case study on how a conceptually good idea (still is) can go horribly wrong when costs are cut in the wrong places. Thanks again Adam for the great interview, your access to Bob Lutz is priceless!
I bought one of the last new Aztek versatrak all wheel drive in 2005. It was Maroon, with Aztek tan/gray interior with tent and a compressor and blow up mattress for the back. We loved that thing! You could easily remove the rear seats and fix 4x8 sheets of plywood in the back. You could stand a bike(s) up there and it had tie downs to do it. It was a bit under powered. It sat wonderful and had great capt. chairs. It had the removable ice chest. It was so easy to load because it was lower than an average car height. People that don't like them never had one. Notice how many crossovers look like it now, Lexus, Prius, Hyundai, Mitsubishi. All look like an Aztek from the back of sides. It was before it's time, oh and the all wheel drive was really good.
It was actually based on a never shown concept called the Bearclaw. It was supposed to be an offroad TransAm with all the feature bandwidth we saw in the production vehicle. When they were forced to use the minivan architecture the program was DOA. The absolutely crazy thing is most Pontiac concepts would've been sales successes because other companies went on to produce their ideas.
I’ve read it started out as a “Blazer with the looks of a Camaro” and the idea was to use the S10 platform. Funnily enough now there is a Blazer with Camaro influenced styling.
@Double_Anarchy Kind of like the Stinger? I wanted them to produce that one pretty badly. Even started saving because the rumor was it close to getting the green light, and once again, the bean counters stepped in
@Joseph Brent - iluvcamaros You're right. Pretty ironic and once again saddled with a FWD platform but at least it's selling good despite being overpriced.
I was riding with my friend a Chevy store owner when he saw an Aztek for the first time. So many explicitives to say, 'who would put that on a showroom floor and expect a buyer to come through the door'. Nothing like what I saw at the NAIAS. Hope you have more with Lutz.
This is getting better as you go with the interview. I have always enjoyed listening to Bob Lutz. The inside information is interesting. I agree with Bob Lutz on the headrest. I hated those halo headrests when they were in Grand Prix and Bonneville. I was so glad when they took them out of the 2000-2005 Pontiac Bonneville. The Bonneville ended up with Oldsmobile Aurora seats. The one car where they did work was Firebird. Thank you so much Adam. Please keep the content coming.
Haaaa! Walter White's car! :) You should ad a picture of M.Lutz in the teaser shot...he is so cool to listen to...Hoping for more of these wonderful chat!
Prior to the Pontiac Aztec coming to market, I had a chance to participate in one of the market research gatherings that had it on display. I stated then that the design was not good. And I wasn't the only one there that voiced the same opinion. So, "The Excitement Division" bit the dust in 2010.
This interview with Mr. Lutz is unfiltered insight and knowledge about how a corporation as large as General Motors can lay such a large egg and just keep on keeping on .. pure gold
It wasn't the first time GM layed an egg. You'd think they would have learned with the Corvair when it made its debut. The engineers knew there were problems, but the guys on the Fourteenth Floor wouldn't hear of it.
@patrickflohe7427 Yes they have and certainly here in North America. The Big Four became complacent and believed that consumers would never seriously support the import market and would always buy American regardless of what the import market had to offer.
@Mythicregard The rear swing axle to begin with. If you can find a copy of Ralph Nader's book "Unsafe at Any Speed", it tells it all there. The later models were greatly improved, but the damage was already done.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. As someone who loves the quirky, offbeat stuff, I'm a big fan of the Aztek. Totally understand why it flopped, though. Not everybody has my tastes.
As a child of the '90s I agree, there's nothing wrong with trying something new and being different it's just too bad they had to put it on that stupid minivan platform it could have been something truly great if it was on a truck frame and was capable off-road!
Around 2003 or 4, there was an internal presentation floating around about the Aztec development. It went through every little decision (with the names of the perpetrators) and how it got to be the product we all love today. It was probably an hour long and was a cautionary tale about the death by a thousand paper cuts that became the Aztec.
Yeah a friend of mine had one until the head gasket finally blew recently as ugly as it was it was extremely practical and he only paid $900 for it so who cares what it looks like
Great topic. You didn't mention the most famous Aztek from Hollywood, Walter Whites Aztek. The first version of the Avalanche looked much the same with all the outer plastic molding, headlights, and other features. The second or third year they offered a scaled down outer plastic version and the headlights were softened more like the Silverado.
Bob speaks with such efficient clarity. All that experience in one pragmatic person. I cannot manage anything like that flowing, presence of mind on various topics that he can.
In 2001 I was working security while in college and I occasionally talked to this girl who had a 3000GT that was always giving her problems. One day she rolled up to the gate in a brand new Aztek and I’ll never forget my reaction. “What…tf…is that?”.
I remember being at the Chevrolet Pontiac Cadillac dealership in my hometown with my parents and they seen them come in on the car carrier and the words out of my parents mouth was WTF is that!? And the salesman’s response was “perhaps you’d like to see the Chevy Blazers we have” LMAO never forget the look on his face.
In 1998 i was a Security Guard at GM . There were many experimental vehicles at my post . On foot patrol i spotted a mini-van type vehicle i assumed to be a "body in white" test buck ... Was i surprised when they relesed the vehicle virtually "as-is" a lttle while later !
This reinforces what I have thought and said over the years, that external styling is what gets people interested in a car first and foremost; the automotive version of “curb appeal” in the real estate world. An ugly car won’t sell no matter how good it is. Great video!
Years ago, I nearly bought an Aztec coming off a lease. At the last minute I came to my senses. I even came close to buying a Pacer. And I actually did drive a Granada in high school. I suppose even underdogs have their charm.
I drove a 1992 Dodge Monaco (sibling to the Eagle Premiere and Renault 25) for 8 years, and a 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid for 15 years and loved both of them, despite their loser images. But seeing an Aztek or a Pacer in the driveway every morning would be tough, even if I loved everything else about them. It's hard to fight the "ick factor".
When I was in the market for a practical compact utility vehicle in 2003, these were still on dealer lots. The Honda CRV, Subaru Forester, and Toyota RAV4 were the dominant players. Typical of GM of the period, the styling was way over the top for a vehicle, which was supposed to appeal to practical minded outdoors oriented folks. Long story short, I went for a year end deal on a Ford Escape. It may have had less interior space, but the Escape was a very practical and efficiently package 5 door utility vehicle.
Aside from his own very valid perceptions of this vehicle, Bob tells it like it really was, and very humorously. Thanks for the laughs gentlemen. Always a pleasure!
Bob said it correct, "it's hard to find a date for your ugly sister" The Aztec was a huge error in judgment by the upper brass at GM. I tend to like quirky cars, but it was too quirky even for me.
Have Aztek was ahead of the cross over utility vehicle CUV. Trend that would kill off the sedan market a decade later We've had a Aztek in our family since 2004 and now it blends right in on big store parking lot.
I was at EPCOT when GM was sponsoring the Test Track attraction and they had an Aztek on display before just before production. There was was a GM rep there I chatted with, and I mentioned how awkward/ugly looking the Aztek was and would be a disaster. He tried his best spin - "Are you sure? It looks great." You could tell that he was doing his best sales pitch, but most likely wasn't believing it himself. Everyone seems to forget about it's cousin, the Buick Rendezvous. It was far better looking and sold fairly well. From what I read, when Pontiac finally decided to kill the Aztek, the Rendezvous was a causality as well since GM couldn't justify keeping the factory line open for just one moderately successful vehicle.
Nah the Rendezvous outlived the Aztek by a couple years. The Buick Enclave coming out is what ended the outgoing pair of aging Buick SUVs (Rendezvous & Rainier). But the Enclave would likely have never existed if not for the Rendezvous' initial success paving the way.
I have read that the second generation LaCrosse was the first car Bob had full influence on. I bought a 2010 and owned it for 12 years. It was the touring model with active suspension. It rode and handled wonderfully. I found it a great car and the interior was beautifully designed. I also really liked the second generation SRX, also a model I understand Bob had much to do with. It seemed these vehicles which launched just after the bankruptcy really marked a turning point for GM. I would love to hear Bob's thoughts on these vehicles and what was happening with GM in this period.
Another great video. I’ve seen several about the Aztec: dismissals, jokes…you get the picture. But little or no serious discussion of the context of the type Adam confronts. And no mention of interesting elements of the failed car. Well done. Thanks Adam.👍🏽
I've been listening to the audiobook of "Car Guys Vs Bean Counters. Only about half-way through. Amazing insight. I wish it was Bob reading the book though.
What a coup - getting Bob Lutz for this program. I have always appreciated his perspectives. It would be interesting to hear him talk about the Chevy Volt and contemporary hybrids and electric vehicles. Thanks
But Bob...How do you really feel about the Aztek? But seriously, what a great guy Bob Lutz is. No sugarcoating, he just tells it like he sees it. And I like that...He actually reminds me so much of my own Dad! Thanks Adam.
I bought a new 2005 Aztek and loved it for what it was. Went camping/fishing with my boys in it and even slept in my Aztek with that tent package. Only problem was with the air leveling system, pump went out but was fixed under warranty at the time. Still have the door bags and cargo net. Never used them
I have so much respect and admiration for Bob Lutz, he explained it perfectly and concisely why these vehicles failed. I was in high school during the Aztek's run and I honestly was indifferent to it even seeing it on the shows "murder drones" and "breaking bad"! I distinctly remember Jim Scouten reviewing one on car and driver and he said one woman looking at it thought it was a Jeep Cherokee. Dad had a white 08 Torrent and his best friend had a Rendezvous.
Great video! Bob Lutz was a giant back then. I worked for Chrysler in the 90's when he and Schremp merged Daimler and Chrysler. Love your videos bruh! Keep it up!!
I first saw this vehicle for the first time while working in Colorado on a Pontiac Dealers lot. My first instinct was that is so ugly. Bob is right the customer is buying the product. I have always said Deloren or Lutz would have pushed GM to build better vehicles if they were CEO!!!
It’s crazy that in todays day and age it really does fit in with all the Kia/Hyandai and Mitsubishi suvs I’ve seen in the last few years. It truly was ahead of its time
There was a similar item that existed in the firearms world for a few years. The Mossberg 464 SPX. Basically a lever action rifle with modern AR- style furniture on it. Ugly? Yes! Practical? Yes! The Aztek was the automotive version of the same principle, to a degree. I think the SPX was more controversial because some people felt that it blasphemed the classic look of a lever gun, something that's been around for over 150 years.
...also an abomination because of the market it served. Right up there with fixed magazines and thumb-hole stocks on ARs. The Aztek actually deserves better than that comparison. 😂
@@TheBrokenLife I think the designers at Mossberg said "hey, let's modernize the lever gun." I think comparing that to some of the "Californication" features that have to be on on ARs sold in that state is not a fair comparison. There are other tactical lever guns out there now, but they're just not as ugly as the SPX. It's a valid concept, but the initial exposure to it is jarring. It's now maturing in the marketplace, you might say. Just for the record, I think the Aztek is kind of ugly, but I like it anyway. I think it's a future and possibly present day collectible.
@@peterf4552 Ehhh... I think Mossberg is perfectly happy making money by falling between the cracks in certain unfriendly states. That said, the 464 isn't what I thought it was. I mistook it for one of the lever (or bolt) "ARs" that only exist for that purpose. The 464 is its own thing. Your original comparison is fair. As far as Azteks, they may end up as collectibles just because no one saved them so nice ones will dry up. As a curiosity they're fine, but there's really nothing special about the driving experience in one. They do everything "fine". That's probably not something I'd make a hole in my garage for. But... Who knows what the future brings?
I loved the Aztec but I hated the way it looked. It drove nice. It was a good size. It had some cool features. When I worked for GM, I drove them as fleet cars and loved them. I always wondered why the Aztec production car looked so much worse than the show car. I guess the answer is summed up in the battle between manufacturing and customer desires.
The first time I ever saw this car was while watching the Breaking bad series , Walter White drove it. I remember thinking "what IS that car, is it real" , then I noticed the little Pontiac badge and thought they really tried to sell them?
i remember first seeing the Aztek on Survivor about 21 or 22 yrs ago. it was part of a challenge prize i think. and i was like Lutz, totally stunned and dumbfounded! when you first see the thing, you instantly just know it's a failure.. like what were they thinking??
Yes I believe it was the first season of Survivor. The winner got a new Aztek . I remember Daid Letterman talking about that and ripping the Aztek throughout a whole show.
@@stepheng3667 i was thinking it was the 2cd season, cus i never watched the 1st season. i started with S2 Aus outback, i think they thought the Aztek would go with the whole outback survivor thing, but ya.. big fail!
I love this interview and there are too few men like him around today. " If only someone would date my ugly sister. " Pure gold!! See, you can't say things like that today and that's why we've got so many marginal to terrible products. And it isn't sexist because there a lot of goofy looking guys out there too. Preach it!!!
Авто/Мото
I'm still blown away that you brought Bob Lutz to the channel. He was the biggest name in the car world when I was growing up. I remember his name mentioned in so many car magazine feature stories and the like. What a legend!
I worked at a Pontiac dealer when this came out. We parked our first Aztec we got in, out front. A yellow one. Just after , a couple walked by out front and the lady exclaimed “that is the ugliest car I’ve seen in all my fkn life!!”
It was a had to be there moment
I did as well, I remember taking the first one out for a drive, it was like driving around in a UFO, I almost caused accidents.
@@rafaelfiallo4123 hahahaha
Particularly because Pontiac still had an image of being wide, low and cool looking starting with the 1959's and the first Grand Prix. Like he said, the opposite of the Pontiac image.
The Aztek would fit in nicely with today's unfortunate "angry appliance" auto styling trend.
Yeah, even the headlights on Jeeps look pissed off.
You hit it right on the head!! Especially the Lexus with the "Predator" alien creature look, and BMW with the buck-toothed beaver look!!
But those look better at least. The "angry appliance" trend is a repeat of the 50s-70s styling excess. We are seeing dual tone roofs again.
Astute observation. New cars are absolutely hideous, except for a few things out of Italy and a few other exceptions
Compared to today's overall ugliness these are attractive.
Bob is definitely the kind of guy who should be running a car company. He understands the business more than anyone else I've ever heard
It's too bad he wasn't at GM sooner. He would have made sure the Aztek was a good enough looking vehicle. If it looked like the Vibe, it would have been a hit.
I feel sorry for his sister. He sounds like a jerk to me
Like a lot of executives every good idea is his and every bad one he had nothing to do with....
@@rafaelfiallo4123 Bingo!!
@@gs1100ed Yup, typical old geezer out of touch with the world.
He's right on the money. This is what happens in a corporate culture where no one involved is allowed to object. It really is that simple.
That's true for any culture, except military. Any government won't get far with it.
Reminds me of Hollywood right now.
Bob is direct and plainspoken!
Crew Resource Management.
@dionrau5580 the current American administration is doing it.. wtf..
Lol
“Everybody got on the bus and helped drive it off a cliff”. That is the best metaphor I’ve ever heard. But the “you can’t change reality with enthusiasm” is amazing.
Bob is always a truly wonderful person to talk to. And if you didn't know it you might not suspect he is 91 years old
Northfield and Boston Place?
He really looks great for his age.
Dude has aged well, even chomping them fat cigars lol. I thought he was 75 to 80. He was extremely articulate in this interview as well, summed up GM's culture problem better than anything I've heard or read about in just this 10 minute interview.
I used to haul parts to and from a GM plant and Mr Lutz was there one day. Cool guy and I told him I liked haulng for that plant.
I came very close to buying a new Aztek, liking everything about it and especially the looks. But the test drive revealed an extremely soft suspension and oceanic level lean. I wound up buying a Grand Prix GTP instead, which I still own, drive and love.
I hate the overly firm suspensions of the newer cars. The Aztek was never supposed to be a sports car. On a long trip, the softer suspension, for me, is greatly appreciated than one that keeps the passengers uncomfortable by shaking them to pieces even if it means dealing with body lean on the corners.
You said you liked the looks?
@@Jordi7174 Very much, and still do. Wish I had bought one;
@@Jordi7174 Very much, and still do.
The original concept as envisioned by Design had sporty proportions and a stance consistent with Pontiac's performance image. The production Aztek revealled what happens when the innovative concept was forced to conform in size and shape to a short wheelbase minivan platform.
Thank you for the inside story on the Aztek. My dad, who was in retail automotive for years and then retired, took his car into the local Pontiac / Buick dealer for service. While there, he walked into the showroom to see a new Aztek front and center with the tent option stretched out behind the vehicle. He walked around it a couple of times and couldn't believe his eyes.
A salesman appeared and asked him what he thought. "Well," dad said, "You've got the tent stretched out the wrong way. You should go forward with it and try and cover this thing up."
lol
That is hilarious.
Ouch…
This interviews are pure GOLD! Please keep on doing this stuff I think these are the best contents in your channel man, enabling these legendary people to sharing their knowledge before it is lost.
Agreed! Very real and honest
Bob Lutz is always a great interview.
I very much enjoy all the interviews with Bob Lutz. Thanks Adam!
Great insights into the Pontiac Aztek development. The ugly sister analogy was funny. The Buick Rendezvous was a much better seller and I think Mr. Lutz is correct that if the Aztek was a GMC it might have done better.
The aztek should've been an Oldsmobile, the bravada should've been a Buick.
@@anthonyrivera0917 Oldsmobile began it's three year phase-out in 2001 and the Bravada became the Buick Rainier in 2004.
@@anthonyrivera0917
No.
“You can’t change reality with enthusiasm.” That truth could apply to all kinds of things in our culture. Wow. Great stuff.
I am truly impressed with Mr. Lutz's wisdom and discernment - no wonder he was such a success in the automotive industry.
Bob Lutz is great.
Again… my favorite RUclips channel. I love GM corporate gossip, it’s my Page Six or TMZ.
Its hard to believe this guy is 91 years old...
And still smoking!
Another great interview and video. The Aztec really injured Pontiac single handedly but it represents a culture of compromise and blind leadership. Love Lute's ugly sister analogy and it is still ugly by today's standards.
I've always felt that Bob Lutz got a raw deal by being blamed for GM's bankruptcy. If only he could've kept improving their cars I think GM would be back on top of the world. Just look at what they were producing in 2001 compared to 2009 n how far n better the vehicles were.
GM was dead man walking in the late seventies- any car company that had a culture that fostered and then appointed Roger Smith to run it in 1981 was doomed.
@@gordtulk
I remember that guy.
I was a kid, & didn’t graduate high school until ’84.
Roger Smith was on the news all the time!
My dad was management at GM, & so was his brother.
My oldest brother was hourly at GM, too.
Later, he went into mgmt as well.
Nobody liked Roger Smith.
Nobody.
Good point. He was improving their products steadily but ran out of time. Several more years would have achieved the objective. They deteriorated over decades but he was supposed to fix it in a few years...
I felt the same way about Bob Lutz getting a bad deal with GM and the bankruptcy. The problem was that Lutz was the right guy to fix the problems...but 10 years too late. He didn't have much of a chance.
@@codyluka8355 He was also considered to be insensitive and a blaspheme to the new religion of climate hysteria. Cow farts and volcanic eruptions is what I recall he mentioning at the time, which made me like him even more. Sad to think that it only took the climastrologists [spelling intentional] less than two decades to find ways of using cows' methane release as an excuse to begin destroying the livelihood of farmers. What's happening in the Netherlands is just the beginning.
Awesome interview with Bob, if we only had intelligent people at GM nowadays they would actually build quality vehicles outside of the NEW Corvette and Suburban. Rest of the line up from GM needs total revamp and focus on reliability...keep it simple GM, don't flood your vehicles with electronic gimmicks. Start using quality parts that will last past the warranty period.
The Pontiac Aztec is a case study on how a conceptually good idea (still is) can go horribly wrong when costs are cut in the wrong places. Thanks again Adam for the great interview, your access to Bob Lutz is priceless!
I bought one of the last new Aztek versatrak all wheel drive in 2005. It was Maroon, with Aztek tan/gray interior with tent and a compressor and blow up mattress for the back. We loved that thing! You could easily remove the rear seats and fix 4x8 sheets of plywood in the back. You could stand a bike(s) up there and it had tie downs to do it. It was a bit under powered. It sat wonderful and had great capt. chairs. It had the removable ice chest. It was so easy to load because it was lower than an average car height. People that don't like them never had one. Notice how many crossovers look like it now, Lexus, Prius, Hyundai, Mitsubishi. All look like an Aztek from the back of sides. It was before it's time, oh and the all wheel drive was really good.
It was actually based on a never shown concept called the Bearclaw. It was supposed to be an offroad TransAm with all the feature bandwidth we saw in the production vehicle. When they were forced to use the minivan architecture the program was DOA. The absolutely crazy thing is most Pontiac concepts would've been sales successes because other companies went on to produce their ideas.
I'm picturing a lifted AWD Sunbird hatchback with a V8. I want one.
I’ve read it started out as a “Blazer with the looks of a Camaro” and the idea was to use the S10 platform. Funnily enough now there is a Blazer with Camaro influenced styling.
@Double_Anarchy Kind of like the Stinger? I wanted them to produce that one pretty badly. Even started saving because the rumor was it close to getting the green light, and once again, the bean counters stepped in
@Joseph Brent - iluvcamaros You're right. Pretty ironic and once again saddled with a FWD platform but at least it's selling good despite being overpriced.
What is "feature bandwidth"?
I was riding with my friend a Chevy store owner when he saw an Aztek for the first time. So many explicitives to say, 'who would put that on a showroom floor and expect a buyer to come through the door'. Nothing like what I saw at the NAIAS. Hope you have more with Lutz.
Hey Adam, yeah, Pontiac was certainly bold & daring!!!! I'd call it "fugly" 🙄
I could sit and watch Bob Lutz talk for HOURS. Great episode.
This is getting better as you go with the interview. I have always enjoyed listening to Bob Lutz. The inside information is interesting. I agree with Bob Lutz on the headrest. I hated those halo headrests when they were in Grand Prix and Bonneville. I was so glad when they took them out of the 2000-2005 Pontiac Bonneville. The Bonneville ended up with Oldsmobile Aurora seats. The one car where they did work was Firebird. Thank you so much Adam. Please keep the content coming.
Haaaa! Walter White's car! :) You should ad a picture of M.Lutz in the teaser shot...he is so cool to listen to...Hoping for more of these wonderful chat!
Prior to the Pontiac Aztec coming to market, I had a chance to participate in one of the market research gatherings that had it on display. I stated then that the design was not good. And I wasn't the only one there that voiced the same opinion. So, "The Excitement Division" bit the dust in 2010.
This interview with Mr. Lutz is unfiltered insight and knowledge about how a corporation as large as General Motors can lay such a large egg and just keep on keeping on .. pure gold
It wasn't the first time GM layed an egg. You'd think they would have learned with the Corvair when it made its debut. The engineers knew there were problems, but the guys on the Fourteenth Floor wouldn't hear of it.
@@codyluka8355
All of the manufacturers have done it.
@@codyluka8355 What was wrong with the Corvair?
@patrickflohe7427 Yes they have and certainly here in North America. The Big Four became complacent and believed that consumers would never seriously support the import market and would always buy American regardless of what the import market had to offer.
@Mythicregard The rear swing axle to begin with. If you can find a copy of Ralph Nader's book "Unsafe at Any Speed", it tells it all there. The later models were greatly improved, but the damage was already done.
Such a treat to hear from Bob Lutz himself. I enjoy your interviews with the GM designers.
I loved the damn square headrests in my 99 Grand Prix. I noticed them and I was glad they were different.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. As someone who loves the quirky, offbeat stuff, I'm a big fan of the Aztek. Totally understand why it flopped, though. Not everybody has my tastes.
As a child of the '90s I agree, there's nothing wrong with trying something new and being different it's just too bad they had to put it on that stupid minivan platform it could have been something truly great if it was on a truck frame and was capable off-road!
I will say Breaking Bad gave me a new appreciation for it.
@@lucashenderson2775 🤣🤣🤣🤣 I forgot all about Heisenberg's meth mobile
My friend has an ugly sister that you may be interested in. 😂
and that is why ALL new cars, suvs look alike, no individuality!!
I hope we're getting more installments with Lutz.
I love that Members Only jacket 👍
Bob is a legend. I had a friend that worked in the Aztek design. She was completely shocked when no one liked it.
She would be a great person for Adam to interview!
That external design proves that one can design a car exterior with their eyes closed. Great video!
Around 2003 or 4, there was an internal presentation floating around about the Aztec development. It went through every little decision (with the names of the perpetrators) and how it got to be the product we all love today. It was probably an hour long and was a cautionary tale about the death by a thousand paper cuts that became the Aztec.
I've read accounts of the public reveal of the production Aztec. There were audible gasps from the audience.
Was a salesperson at a Pontiac dealership when they came out. Had one as a demo. I kinda liked it. I don't remember how many I sold 😊
Yeah a friend of mine had one until the head gasket finally blew recently as ugly as it was it was extremely practical and he only paid $900 for it so who cares what it looks like
Great topic. You didn't mention the most famous Aztek from Hollywood, Walter Whites Aztek.
The first version of the Avalanche looked much the same with all the outer plastic molding, headlights, and other features. The second or third year they offered a scaled down outer plastic version and the headlights were softened more like the Silverado.
Bob speaks with such efficient clarity. All that experience in one pragmatic person. I cannot manage anything like that flowing, presence of mind on various topics that he can.
“You can’t change reality with enthusiasm.”
Our sales team drove these and loved them; mind you, they did'nt have a cent invested. Thanks yo you both.
In 2001 I was working security while in college and I occasionally talked to this girl who had a 3000GT that was always giving her problems. One day she rolled up to the gate in a brand new Aztek and I’ll never forget my reaction. “What…tf…is that?”.
I remember being at the Chevrolet Pontiac Cadillac dealership in my hometown with my parents and they seen them come in on the car carrier and the words out of my parents mouth was WTF is that!? And the salesman’s response was “perhaps you’d like to see the Chevy Blazers we have” LMAO never forget the look on his face.
In 1998 i was a Security Guard at GM . There were many experimental vehicles at my post . On foot patrol i spotted a mini-van type vehicle i assumed to be a "body in white" test buck ... Was i surprised when they relesed the vehicle virtually "as-is" a lttle while later !
This reinforces what I have thought and said over the years, that external styling is what gets people interested in a car first and foremost; the automotive version of “curb appeal” in the real estate world. An ugly car won’t sell no matter how good it is. Great video!
Good talk.
The no negativity - reminds me of Oddball in Kelley's Heroes... Stop with the negative waves.
Years ago, I nearly bought an Aztec coming off a lease. At the last minute I came to my senses. I even came close to buying a Pacer. And I actually did drive a Granada in high school. I suppose even underdogs have their charm.
Nothing wrong with the Granada.
I drove a 1992 Dodge Monaco (sibling to the Eagle Premiere and Renault 25) for 8 years, and a 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid for 15 years and loved both of them, despite their loser images. But seeing an Aztek or a Pacer in the driveway every morning would be tough, even if I loved everything else about them. It's hard to fight the "ick factor".
@@HAL-dm1eh
BAHAHAHA
Yeah, right, and competing with Mercedes.
@@patrickflohe7427 That was just marketing.
@@pcno2832 I feel like the driveability of the early Accord hybrid is what sunk the car. Same with the GMC Sierra hybrid.
Thanks for bringing the people behind the cars we love, or even the cars we might not,lol. Great content, Adam!
When I was in the market for a practical compact utility vehicle in 2003, these were still on dealer lots. The Honda CRV, Subaru Forester, and Toyota RAV4 were the dominant players. Typical of GM of the period, the styling was way over the top for a vehicle, which was supposed to appeal to practical minded outdoors oriented folks. Long story short, I went for a year end deal on a Ford Escape. It may have had less interior space, but the Escape was a very practical and efficiently package 5 door utility vehicle.
Haha! The escape is a total pos itself!
And now Pontiac is gone. Hard to believe they didn't make it after great vehicles like the Aztec. Sarcasm intended
“You can’t change reality with enthusiasm.” Love that.
Aside from his own very valid perceptions of this vehicle, Bob tells it like it really was, and very humorously. Thanks for the laughs gentlemen. Always a pleasure!
Bob said it correct, "it's hard to find a date for your ugly sister" The Aztec was a huge error in judgment by the upper brass at GM. I tend to like quirky cars, but it was too quirky even for me.
Have Aztek was ahead of the cross over utility vehicle CUV. Trend that would kill off the sedan market a decade later
We've had a Aztek in our family since 2004 and now it blends right in on big store parking lot.
An acquaintance uses the console cooler as his jobsite lunch box.
Picked it up at a garage sale
I was at EPCOT when GM was sponsoring the Test Track attraction and they had an Aztek on display before just before production. There was was a GM rep there I chatted with, and I mentioned how awkward/ugly looking the Aztek was and would be a disaster. He tried his best spin - "Are you sure? It looks great." You could tell that he was doing his best sales pitch, but most likely wasn't believing it himself.
Everyone seems to forget about it's cousin, the Buick Rendezvous. It was far better looking and sold fairly well. From what I read, when Pontiac finally decided to kill the Aztek, the Rendezvous was a causality as well since GM couldn't justify keeping the factory line open for just one moderately successful vehicle.
Nah the Rendezvous outlived the Aztek by a couple years. The Buick Enclave coming out is what ended the outgoing pair of aging Buick SUVs (Rendezvous & Rainier). But the Enclave would likely have never existed if not for the Rendezvous' initial success paving the way.
The Aztek makes the AMC Pacer look gorgeous.
I don’t think it’s any worse than a lot of the garish crossovers of the latest model year, but they get customers in the showroom. 🤷♂️
Bob Lutz is an automotive god. His resume and record in the industry are peerless. Amazing career. I always enjoy his interviews. 👍
I have read that the second generation LaCrosse was the first car Bob had full influence on. I bought a 2010 and owned it for 12 years. It was the touring model with active suspension. It rode and handled wonderfully. I found it a great car and the interior was beautifully designed. I also really liked the second generation SRX, also a model I understand Bob had much to do with. It seemed these vehicles which launched just after the bankruptcy really marked a turning point for GM. I would love to hear Bob's thoughts on these vehicles and what was happening with GM in this period.
Another great video. I’ve seen several about the Aztec: dismissals, jokes…you get the picture. But little or no serious discussion of the context of the type Adam confronts. And no mention of interesting elements of the failed car. Well done. Thanks Adam.👍🏽
I like it. It was ahead of its time
8:19 the best moment of this episode. Perfectly said.
Great interview! Thanks!
I've been listening to the audiobook of "Car Guys Vs Bean Counters. Only about half-way through. Amazing insight. I wish it was Bob reading the book though.
awesome opportunity to sit down with Lutz.
I would love to see more Bob Lutz interviews. I am a fan of his
What a coup - getting Bob Lutz for this program. I have always appreciated his perspectives. It would be interesting to hear him talk about the Chevy Volt and contemporary hybrids and electric vehicles. Thanks
Thank you for tackling this subject. Especially with Bob Lutz. Most excellent.
What an excellent interview!
Bob is sharp!
Great video! Love your channel!
But Bob...How do you really feel about the Aztek? But seriously, what a great guy Bob Lutz is. No sugarcoating, he just tells it like he sees it. And I like that...He actually reminds me so much of my own Dad! Thanks Adam.
Bob's a great guy but I wish he hadn't brought up my sister.
Thanks again Adam, for an insightful interview. Hopefully some day I will run into you at Bells'
I bought a new 2005 Aztek and loved it for what it was. Went camping/fishing with my boys in it and even slept in my Aztek with that tent package. Only problem was with the air leveling system, pump went out but was fixed under warranty at the time. Still have the door bags and cargo net. Never used them
Now that’s a man I’d happily work for!
He is great to listen to.
Bob Lutz is a treasure!
I have so much respect and admiration for Bob Lutz, he explained it perfectly and concisely why these vehicles failed.
I was in high school during the Aztek's run and I honestly was indifferent to it even seeing it on the shows "murder drones" and "breaking bad"!
I distinctly remember Jim Scouten reviewing one on car and driver and he said one woman looking at it thought it was a Jeep Cherokee.
Dad had a white 08 Torrent and his best friend had a Rendezvous.
Great video! Bob Lutz was a giant back then. I worked for Chrysler in the 90's when he and Schremp merged Daimler and Chrysler. Love your videos bruh! Keep it up!!
Love our Aztek. Way ahead of its time. Still the best-looking car on the road
I first saw this vehicle for the first time while working in Colorado on a Pontiac Dealers lot. My first instinct was that is so ugly. Bob is right the customer is buying the product. I have always said Deloren or Lutz would have pushed GM to build better vehicles if they were CEO!!!
Aztec was ahead of it’s time
It’s crazy that in todays day and age it really does fit in with all the Kia/Hyandai and Mitsubishi suvs I’ve seen in the last few years. It truly was ahead of its time
True that it had unique features, but the appearance, and from every angle- just nightmarish!!!
You should do a review with Bob Lutz about the 04-06 Pontiac GTO (aka the rebadged Holden Monaro from Australia).
Interesting to hear some inside perspective on the disaster that was the Aztek.
There was a similar item that existed in the firearms world for a few years. The Mossberg 464 SPX. Basically a lever action rifle with modern AR- style furniture on it. Ugly? Yes! Practical? Yes! The Aztek was the automotive version of the same principle, to a degree. I think the SPX was more controversial because some people felt that it blasphemed the classic look of a lever gun, something that's been around for over 150 years.
...also an abomination because of the market it served. Right up there with fixed magazines and thumb-hole stocks on ARs.
The Aztek actually deserves better than that comparison. 😂
@@TheBrokenLife I think the designers at Mossberg said "hey, let's modernize the lever gun." I think comparing that to some of the "Californication" features that have to be on on ARs sold in that state is not a fair comparison. There are other tactical lever guns out there now, but they're just not as ugly as the SPX. It's a valid concept, but the initial exposure to it is jarring. It's now maturing in the marketplace, you might say.
Just for the record, I think the Aztek is kind of ugly, but I like it anyway. I think it's a future and possibly present day collectible.
@@peterf4552 Ehhh... I think Mossberg is perfectly happy making money by falling between the cracks in certain unfriendly states. That said, the 464 isn't what I thought it was. I mistook it for one of the lever (or bolt) "ARs" that only exist for that purpose. The 464 is its own thing. Your original comparison is fair.
As far as Azteks, they may end up as collectibles just because no one saved them so nice ones will dry up. As a curiosity they're fine, but there's really nothing special about the driving experience in one. They do everything "fine". That's probably not something I'd make a hole in my garage for. But... Who knows what the future brings?
@@TheBrokenLife
What market?
It makes me happy as a car enthusiast to see that people won’t settle for merely practical.
Bob is right gm never listened to their customers
Bob Lutz, what a gem of a guy!
The Aztek gave a whole new meaning to the term "epic fail " !!
I loved the Aztec but I hated the way it looked. It drove nice. It was a good size. It had some cool features. When I worked for GM, I drove them as fleet cars and loved them. I always wondered why the Aztec production car looked so much worse than the show car. I guess the answer is summed up in the battle between manufacturing and customer desires.
The first time I ever saw this car was while watching the Breaking bad series , Walter White drove it. I remember thinking "what IS that car, is it real" , then I noticed the little Pontiac badge and thought they really tried to sell them?
When the Aztek first came out, I thought it was really cool looking! Not necessarily something I'd buy, but it was interesting to look at.
"Someone call 911, there's been a terrible car accident at the intersection!"
"Never mind, it's just a Pontiac Aztec waiting at the stoplight."
i remember first seeing the Aztek on Survivor about 21 or 22 yrs ago. it was part of a challenge prize i think. and i was like Lutz, totally stunned and dumbfounded! when you first see the thing, you instantly just know it's a failure.. like what were they thinking??
Yes I believe it was the first season of Survivor. The winner got a new Aztek . I remember Daid Letterman talking about that and ripping the Aztek throughout a whole show.
@@stepheng3667 i was thinking it was the 2cd season, cus i never watched the 1st season. i started with S2 Aus outback, i think they thought the Aztek would go with the whole outback survivor thing, but ya.. big fail!
Wow awesome video.
I love this interview and there are too few men like him around today. " If only someone would date my ugly sister. " Pure gold!! See, you can't say things like that today and that's why we've got so many marginal to terrible products. And it isn't sexist because there a lot of goofy looking guys out there too. Preach it!!!