This Could SAVE Your Tube Amp (and Your Tone)
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- Опубликовано: 13 июн 2024
- AmpRx Brown Box vs Variac video: • Why a Variac is NOT th...
AmpRx Website: www.brownbox.rocks/
Private Zoom Lessons with Me! calendly.com/dylanadamslessons
My Patreon Channel: patreon.com/DylanAdamsGuitar?...
Video Chapters:
00:00 - Intro/Why Does Input Voltage Matter?
01:54 - Jam!
02:09 - Lessons/Patreon
02:40 - Brown Box Features
5:50 - Today's Rig for the Tone Comparison
06:28 - Voltages Tone Comparison
07:49 - Thoughts
09:16 - Voltage "Sweet Spot"
11:30 - Brown Box's MOST IMPORTANT Benefit
13:11 - Do I Recommend the Brown Box?
14:07 - Outro 
Видеоклипы
When I biased your Super Reverb, I had it plugged into my conditioned power supply. It's around 106 VAC. I based the 67 Super Reverb at normal wall voltage, which was 118 to 120 VAC. That is exactly why both sound their best at those voltages. Knowing what wall voltage your amp was biased with and using a product like the "Brown Box" is highly recommended if you want a consistent tone and to protect your amp. Good job on the video.
Man, I went through 2, yes 2, original 64 bassman op transformers before getting a power conditioner and brown box. It’s no joke 😅
Can you damage an amp by running too low a voltage?
I use the Brown Box regardless of vintage or modern tube amps, I was onstage at a big Music festival, totally professional set up, some big headliners on the bill, and the power they gave me for my amp was running 126 volts and fluctuating up and down, never near 120, so it’s part of my rig permanently, looking at getting the rack version, great video and great slide playing!
I thought in the demo that the slide parts were almost shrill at wall voltage, and much better attenuated.
for the rhythm parts, the difference was much more subtle.
I build and design vintage guitar tube amps. Did you use a vintage power transformer when you built your 5E3 clone or did you use a modern power transformer? Modern transformers are made to respond to primary voltages that are modern for instance say the original circuit spec was you have a secondary of 325 volts. If that was a 1950s transformer you'd probably get about 20 to 30 volts more than that because that transformer from the 50s was designed to see 110 to 115 volts in order to put out the secondary voltage needed. A modern transformer is expecting to see 120 to 125 in order to put out that 325 volt secondary so unless you're using vintage transformers or it's a legit vintage amp your argument is not technically valid. It may be the case that you prefer the sound on that particular amp with less voltage kind of like Eddie did with his Marshalls in the 70s so there's nothing wrong with using your little brown box. The only way for you to really tell is to get into the back of your amp with a meter and check the plate voltages etc against what the vintage circuit played voltages are expected to be. Same thing with filament voltages a modern transformer that's made to see 120 to 125 volts is going to put out a legit 6.3 volts approximately but if I use an old transformer or I'm messing with a vintage amp it'll be closer to 7.2 volts on the which is not the best for the longevity of the tubes
wow.seems like your first sentence is a red flag to me. maybe you left this word out "repair". i have never ever ever heard anyone say they "build and design vintage tube amps".uh. ,most people who have designed and built "vintage" tube amps are very old, dont do it anymore or are plain DEAD. then i went to your youtube site and you have nothing there. it figures.oh well maybe you misspoke.
I am so glad that someone is pointing this out. It works. It’s real. I accomplished this with bucking transformers in some amps and different rectifier tubes in others. This solution would be much easier and trust me…you’ll hear the results!!! The amps will “give up the goods” MUCH sooner on the dial and if you bias them the way they did “back in the day” on the cooler side, you’ll smile!! Tubes last longer too…and on my blackface Fenders…the reverb sounds way better. Next amp I get…I’m picking up one of these units!!
I'm getting one thanks bro! I could hear the overdrive kind of tighten up as you turned it down. Sounded good online, I'm sure in person it was way more noticeable. Thanks again 👍✌
Just bought one - have a ‘62 bandmaster and 69 traynor. The bandmaster had been eating through fuses. Worked with a great amp tech to help revamp some of the power section and he explained exactly this to me. Essentially the amp wants to seel like 110 volts but was seeing 120-124 regularly.
As for the traynor i’ve noticed that the amp is crazy bright at some venues and just enough to cut through at others.
I was immediately sold on one of these and bought it before i had finished watching the vid
I’ve had one for about 6-7 years! I won’t plug in anything without this unit!
Thank you. Great playing. Nice Greenie.
I couldn't believe it when I tried mine the first time, it blew me away, and I couldn't imagine playing without it! Much more valuable than they're priced at.
Shhhhh! They'll raise the price. I need couple more of them:)
Excellent review and demo. Looks like I’m getting a new toy. 😁
I plug my Gibson BR6 amp into a power tap. I also plug a digital voltage meter with LCD readout into the same power tap.
The voltage tap then plugs into the Variac.
The amp sounds much better since I did that. Sweet spot for this amp in terms of tone is 89 volts.
I looked into the Brown Box, but didn’t really see any advantage - I’ve never been in danger of accidentally setting this too high.
To me, the Brown Box is an interesting idea, but the Variac plus power tap plus digital meter is 1/3 the cost of the Brown Box.
--
The amp was built in 1946, when the wall voltage was 110 volts. My studio power runs between 118 and 128 volts, so having something that reduces the current plays a pivotal role in the tone; my argument isn’t that the Brown Box is bad; it’s just that there are less expensive options.
Like you said- this is an excellent solution for venues and vintage amps!
For new builds, however, you could purchase a transformer with “lower B+” OR internally drop the B+ closer to vintage levels. (There are a variety of methods, but the 5E3 is cathode biased so whichever you choose would be relatively easy to implement.)
All of that to say, for new builds specifically, I think the “vintage wall voltages were lower” line is a bit tired- especially when methods exist for recreating the same levels before the amp leaves the bench!
Good demonstration. ... tone-wise it sounds like you could hit the lower voltage tone by rolling down the guitar tone knob.
Secondary issue is grounding. The unit is filled with grounded plugs but they should have an additional safety circuit in it to reveal if the source input is correctly wired or not. Bad cables, bad venue sources, all can have clipped or reversed wired systems and if this device is intended for safety I'd think they want to ensure the guitarist survives the venue (look up death by guitar amp history). Simple $6 3-LED circuit testers exist at hardware stores to verify house wiring so they could add a mini LED circuit for pennies to ensure safe power at the device.
How you describe your sound as you turned down the voltage is exactly what i hear with headphones and this RUclips audio. Overall it's quite nice. And of course, if it provides a measure of safety for vintage equipment, it's well worth the investment imo.
Even through my laptop speakers I could pick out the compression and volume dip. I like that increased compression sound
I have a brown box and it's great. I would buy one again tomorrow if something happened to it. I think the voltage sounds really good dropped a tiny bit to the 114-118V range. The feel difference is huge.
I'm just a home noodle, but got a Brown Box since I use old tube amps with 6V6 and EL84 power tubes, which are supposedly more sensitive to voltage than the higher power tubes like 6L6 and EL34, although they likely benefit too - especially in situations where the voltage is jinky (is that a word?). I like that it's simple and effective, although I know less expensive ways to protect your amp(s) I'm glad to have mine!
Good video and product. You can also use a small UPS battery backup. Cheers
I have a 5e3 clone and a brown box. I use the brown box mainly to protect the tubes. I run it at about 114 to 115v. Before, I was going through power tubes even though I don't drive it hard at all. I saw a Dr. Z video in which he highly recommended the brown box to increase the life of the tubes and other components. I also use it with my Revv D20
Excellent. Thank you.
oh man, I was recently in St Augustine, pretty cool place to walk around and I think there was a solo guitarist holding court in that place you mentioned in the beginning of the video
Great video!! I need one!!
Brown box is pricey but worth it, i first built a power attenuator wiring a transformer in a step down configuration but i only had two increments of reduction so thats when i bit the bullet and got the bb. No more stiff cold feel out of my fenders and Marshalls, old ones, its a must for me,
Thank you for this and all of your posts, Dylan. I’ve been in Thailand for decades and of course it’s not USA voltage. I have a 1972 Fender Twin. The original transformer failed and was just replaced here in Thailand/ as well as some of the circuitry so it’s kind of old school new school . But the brown box is ideal for protection and the current varies here quite a bit at 220. The brown box is AC so I would need to plug that into my voltage converter and I think a great advantage here . And as I voice dictate you might want to indicate that to your buddies because we access all sorts of USA, European and Asian products from our dealers here . I also have a 1965 deluxe reverb with everything original so I can’t wait to try it .
Which postulates my question, have you dealt with voltage conversion with it in any circumstance like Studio etc.?
I’ve had a Brown Box for about two years. It works great.
so you are a Gibson guy? that junior you had on stage was a beautiful beast! nice slide phrasing.
I've been meaning to check these out for a while. I bought one of the remaining "B-stocks" from them. I play a '59 Gibson GA-80T at home and gig with a JCM800 50W clone made by my friend Dom Mancini of Celestial Effects. Looking forward to testing it on both.
A 4v (3%) ac overvoltage is inconsequential. When vintage tube amps were made there were line-level standards from 110v to 125vac and power grid systems had far less effective regulation, so the designers knew their amps were going to likely see overvoltages of 15% or more. The amps are capable of surviving them all. If you want more clean headroom run higher voltage, more distortion/compression, use lower voltage.
Use a modeling amplifier with paired flat response speakers. One Chanel clean and the other with effects. The house sound mixer can also use the signal without having the speakers miked. Plus use a voltage line conditioner that delivers a clean noise free, surge protected electrical supply. Furthermore, always check the initial voltage supply for polarity and grounding. Your electronics will last longer, sound great. And to add, the audience will not tell the differences between a tube amplifier and a modeling amplifier. And you equipment weight and size is greatly reduced. The days of having to turn a tube amplifier to full volume for tone is over!
from way over here, I can hear that the redu ced voltage makes the amp sound rounder, less harsh.
Great Video, thanks for sharing.
The Band sounds great too, maybe because your bassist seems to look like he can be my brother ! Of course at my age now.
So funny ! Were both Bassists too !
When you built the amp did you fit a modern 120v transformer?
It’s all down to B+ , heater voltage has a fair amount of tolerance
I noticed you were wearing a Dogrose shirt in another video. What band band are you playing with in St Augustine? I live in town and would love to check you guys out!
Your band sounds cool.
My 67 BF Pro Reverb is biased at 36ma at 123VAC if i use the brown box do i need to re bias because the ma will go down at lower voltage and at what point do my heater voltages geet to low
With a little DIY and the will, you can build a buck transformer. The parts aren't expensive and it's a really simple circuit.
I have one that has 3 voltage outputs. 110v, 116v and 120v nominal. It all depends on the input voltage, so having a selection is nice.
Just test that garbage at home before you blow out the venue power and ruin your gig. Yeah That imaginary gig….
VALIDATION!
i too use a 5e3 with an AmpRX BrownBox.
while i can't quite articulate why:
i know i love it set at 115/116.
i haven't really discussed this with any one, but definitely feel some validation hearing that someone else feels similarly. thanks!
ps - i like what you're doing here! keep up the good work and thanks for sharing your wonderful music woth us all! take care!
i have a 5e3 that was made exactly to spec. problem is it was made just a few years ago. so it is still looking for the lower voltage, right?
@@richardclark. correct. mine too is newer, but made to specs. i'm certainly no expert, but i believe this to be correct based on my experience.
I have a Furman Power Conditioner - How does that compare ?
Sick!
Interesting. Fender schematics usually note “…values shown + or - 20%” so that is what I built to.The wall voltage is spected at 117. I’m at 124 most days.So 124 v- 117 v
= 7v too much. 7/117=.056. Within spec,right? However I am missing a “high end sparkle”. Any thoughts?
Howdy.
I would assume the BB contains a small transformer, say 25 VA. The secondary is maybe 10 VAC and has several taps, say in 1V steps. The secondary is connected in anti-series with the mains hot thus dropping the mains voltage.
Over- and undervoltage on the filaments reduce the tube lifespan.
Regards.
i have a 5e3 that was made exactly to spec. problem is it was made just a few years ago. so it is still looking for the lower voltage, right?
I've heard a variable autotransformer/variac, especially old ones, might run like 10v higher than you'd think so you'd have to compensate for that. I thibk they're rated for 110v input so if your outlet is putting out 120v-127v you would have to turn down the voltage 10v-17v to get the correct voltage. Please correct me if I'm wrong though.
If it's a basic or old school variac with no metering you can just use a standard multi-meter to check what exactly the output of it is. You should do this anyway as some old ones actually have the ability to up the voltage a bit as well as cut it so you should know what is coming out of it before hooking it up to your amp... you certainly don't want to run 130 or 140 volts into you amplifier !!
You had a Deluxe Reverb re-issue blow up on you? I'm curious when you purchased that amp. I had that happen with 2 Deluxe Reverb re-issues that I purchased around ~2000-2001 (first time it happened was at my first road gig with a new band). Third amp has been problem free for 20-some years. I was told that there was a batch of amps sent out with bad power amp tubes and I had the bad luck to have ended up with two of them. If you picked yours up back then (I'm guessing not, because you seem younger than me) maybe you got one from that batch. Bad tube brother?
When are you playing again in St Augustine?
@dylanadamsguitar Conor is a monster player and great guy.
Will it work for my kemper too?
Absolutely amazing the difference makes Eddie Van Halen was so ahead of his time
also recommend a furman p-1800 AR for voltage regulation and protect your gear from spikes.
What amp is that you using?
The setup of wall voltage should happen with the amp ON. Then you set the attenuation percentage. If you do this the way you instructed, the BrownBox is not calibrated properly.
I can see it for Fender amps. I've never had a Fender that I liked. They're just too brittle bright most of the time. That said, I prefer the brighter settings you demonstrated. I typically like a lot of treble. It makes me play harder to get the sound that I want. No phonin' it in, gotta play like you mean it.
If I can get my filament voltages to exactly 6.3, most of the harshness and noise goes away and any of them will run cooler. This is good for tube longevity. With the Variac at my house, that comes out to 114.5, but it can also vary depending on the time of day, and how much demand is placed on the power company.
That's how I do it too,,my 78 jmp 2204 likes 115 vac which puts my heaters at 6.3 volts , so I bias it up with the 115 volts and it sounds glorious
@@antoncentko6651 if you have any Fenders or anything that uses a No. 47 bulb for the pilot light, you can break the glass off an old one, solder 2 wires on to it, slip the case from an old Sharpie over that and make another hole in the other end. Run the wires through the hole you just made.
Now you have a probe that fits in the lamp socket and you can read the filament voltage without taking the amp apart, drilling any holes, or pulling any tubes. Adjust the line voltage until you see 6.3 volts in the meter, and you're golden .
@@jpalberthoward9 that's a brilliant idea,,thank you!!
Yeah, taking them apart just to read filament voltage gets old, and drilling holes in old ones isn't an option either.
(I've got 2 Tweeds, a Blackface Twin, and a 68 drip rail Bandmaster)
Plus you might have noticed that the power goes up and down all day, depending on the demand. In Las Vegas in the summer, I've seen it go as low as 105 volts on a hot afternoon, and as high as 126 on a mild night when it's late. So being able to quickly find out where you stand with your power is definitely a good thing. If the 6.3v is right, so is everything else. It's the canary in the coal mine.
@@jpalberthoward9 yes power here in Illinois varys about the same , up to 127 late at night,,my old marshall and pro reverb don't like it much, I'll be using your idea soon and your right if heaters are in tolerance and it's biased at that voltage life is good! Thanks again!
I’m so unpopular that the only genre I play is jazz. So all I need is a good clean. Unfortunately no overdrive for me.🥺
Dylan, great video. Like your body, the leg bone is connected to the knee bone . . ., every amp works using electricity. How your AC is supplied (DC is very dangerous) makes a difference to every part using that source as well. Also, must mention AC cleanliness too. Dirty AC with a lot of distortion, like a dirty amp, will never supply clean AC to be consumed by your electronics/electric devices. The AC power conditioner was invented for that. It all matters . . . garbage in garbage out.
Is plugin into the wall bad for solid state amps also?
not so much
I could hear it it definitely had a little more sag and a little less high-end being attenuated I definitely want one for my old champ
spike suppressors on the ac side, and clamping zener on the dc side....i just thought of the latter, thanks.
I mean the brown sound = Brown Out voltage sound ... but modern amp designers certainly took note, and actually do their supply design work with the help of a variable transformer.
I mean I Wound Not recommend the zener clamp on a vintage, it would be way too much extra heat in the amp chassis, and the rectifier would be working too hard;
but if you like the way your amp sounds, where it would easily land like that.....or just taking care of over voltage issues, if you damn well know what your doing.
Do you have to rebias your amps to accommodate the lower voltage?
yes
If it is not cathode biased, yes
@@doubled5383would I need to rebias a gibson ga 20? Thx.
Please talk to an amp tech for a proper answer. But I believe that amp is cathode biased in design and would not need to be rebiased. Or I would just call Gibson and talk to someone familiar with that amp.
@@doubled5383no matter how an amp is biased, changing the input voltage changes the plate voltage and cathode current, so technically yes the amp would need to have bias checked, but, tubes are pretty forgiving to a point and we may not hear or see much difference as long as the tubes arent red plating , should be ok
I’d be happy with the Brown Box Trucker Cap… wink wink…
my power conditioner is currently reading 131 volts, lol
I’ve thought about a Brown Box or Variac for a while. I have an early 60’s Vibro Champ, 5e3 clone (receiving some love from an amp tech), and a Dr Z Z28. The Z was designed to handle 120v, but the others could use it? Also, it would be amazing to smooth out the high end sometimes.
Variac’s scare me a little, and Brown Box is mucho expensive??? Probably should put it in the front of the gear line?
I dig your tone and slide playing :)
Eddie van Halen was born in Holland, and he had a Marshall that was made for the European market and thus needed 220 volt. He didn’t have much technical knowledge at that time and did not understand why the amp did not work in the US, which uses 110 volt. After some asking around and experimenting he finally realized that he needed to use a variac to increase the voltage from 110 to 220 in order use it in the US.
But he loved to make up weird nonsense stories about his gear, as is well known by now, so when people saw that variac he made up this story about running the amp on a higher or lower than standard voltage (that part keeps changing ;)) in order to get his specific sound.
All Marshalls of that era had a tap selector plug and could operate on euro and usa mains. Ed's was no different. Ed used the variac to drop the voltage which quieted the amp and give it some sag as well as some additional distortion. Variacs dont typically allow for a doubling of voltage and would typically increase US 120v mains to 140v. IIRC, Ed ran his marshall at around 80v.
#82_ApplauseInserted🐦
Just imagine the power nightmare that international touring bands have to go through with different voltage outputs of different countries, eg. Australia 240 volt power supply, in others 110 volt and so on.
Plus you have new stage hands that may just accidentally plug your amp into the lighting system rig and when your other guitar player goes to sing while playing guitar and he just may get a lighting bolt coming off his microphone to the face. Craziest thing I’ve ever seen
you know that a variac is way cheaper than a brown box right?
Dylan talks tone (not Dylan Talks Tone)
No offense but you can buy several Variacs for the price of the Brown Box. I've been using them for decades without incidents, just be careful.
Do you realize that if you ditched the SM7B and chose something more sensitive you wouldn't have to have a mic in your face?
Do you realize that Dylan is a guitar virtuoso and makes a living playing beautiful music that thousands of people enjoy? Do you realize that your channel is visible and has nothing to offer?
I never said I had anything to offer. I was just commenting on his microphone choice. Have a nice day.
there are half a million shitheads out there who have never played but LOVE dumble amps which are pretty much high B+ over filtered fenders--you are gonna break their minds (ps those amps are great if you are playing in front of 1500 people at a show- in a bedroom it is a stiff horrible sounding monster)
"I'm not gonna use a variac" proced to use a variac