I feel like the 5000 for self voting and 3000 for not being picked as the outlier has got to be a bug, why else would it be told the exact opposite in-game.
I want to let you know I did NOT get sent here by design doc, I was algorithm recomended here, probably based on other game design and/or jackbox videos I watch. Very interesting breakdown on this broken game. The numbers shown for points gained aren't even true half the time? Wonder how that got through testing. Unless it's intentionally misleading which I shutter to think.
I think I prefer the idea of the outlier being totally unaware that they're the outlier, but incentivizing the outlier to do something? I'm split between "find out and deduce themselves" or "hide in the group and blame someone else."
It seems rather clear that the issue was Hypnotorious being rushed (actually I feel like DodoReMi forced the entire rest of the pack to be rushed but I digress), all of these balancing blunders feel like bandaids to other blunders and had very little time to be tested and refined. For instance, the free 2000 points every turn feel like a cheap solution to the majority having the advantage in prior builds. I also genuinely think that the self vote and getting away scores being swapped is a bug. If the game just had a little more time in the oven, I'm sure Hypnotorious would've been far better.
Wait this is weird this is the first time ive seen a video from this person yet you seem to just APPEAR EVERYWHERE. Really is a small world, especially on the internet XD
I remember having similar issues with Push the Button. In that game being the alien was also just an instant win. I get that in social deduction games, you want the "imposter" to have some kind of advantage but it gets so skewed in that game that it seems almost impossible to get it right. Awesome vid though, love people talking about jackbox games.
I disagree. Even in a 5 player game where most of the rounds gave us zilch for helpful info, there was still just enough for me to make an educated guess - a guess that would've won the game if the other humans didn't vote against it. It's rare for the humans to have enough information to 100% single out who the aliens are, and I think the game is better off for it. I've heard 8 player push sucks, and I usually play with low player counts (4-6 typically).
I came from design doc, and before watching that video I had no idea this game even exists. That being said, thoroughly enjoyed this entire video, it was so interesting and I can’t believe you only have 100 subscribers
Capsid here! Dear viewers, be glad I didn't speak up - my voice sounds like Crash Bandicoot jumping on a bed like a kid. As for my ideas for a rework, the obvious change is to give the Outlier 1000 points for each player they group with. That way, they're actually incentivized to blend in.
I wonder how much of these issues would've been solved if the game just showed all the player's final scores at the end. Like I feel for the people testing the game, they could've immediately pieced together that something was off just seeing the outlier consistently end up with double the points of everyone else. Hiding that info makes it so much harder to solve problems, so it makes all the sense in the world that it would lead to an asymmetric game like this being horribly one-sided.
The attention from the Design Doc video is actually working. I came here directly from the algorithm as a recommended video. Here's a comment to keep that train going!
After watching the sections on the scoring system and how it impacts the game, I feel like the scoring system was just tacked on for no reason, the whole thing feels like an afterthought because "oooo its jackbox and jackbox games always have a winner/points system" all they needed to do is a simple find outlier, group win. loose outlier, outlier win thing like in EVERY OTHER SOCIAL DEDUCTION GAVE THAT HAS EVER EXISTED. Maybe their point was for the players not to get super into it, since the only other jackbox game that is actually fun but also with a useless scoring system is role models, but that line of thinking completely contradicts the roleplay aspects well as it being a social deduction game which by design, requires you to pay attention to what everyone else is doing and saying. The idea of a social deduction game having a scoring system in general sounds completely ridiculous to me, but if anyone can find one that does and it somehow doesn't play like shit, let me know I'm genuinely curious. Also, this is a really neat video, the algorithm must have blessed you or something because this just slid into my recommended and I didn't even know there was a new design docs video out.
Well, another way I could have imagined the design starting was "Role Model, but changing things so the points actually matter." So people are assigned roles/groups that everyone is supposed to sus out: getting the groupings correct gets you points and determines whoever was the best at figuring out the groups. But since this basically turns the whole thing into a social deduction game, the outlier felt like a natural mechanic to include, which just didn't actually work with the point system. However it started, the issue is that the point system doesn't really work with the asymmetric social deduction. I think it would be interesting to split it into two different game modes: points with no outlier and everyone vs the outlier.
The numbers are tricky because you want to incentivize the outlier to blend in without turning the grouping phase into a musical chairs situation of them trying to just worm their way into a proper group's jar at the last second, but with that caveat in mind, here's what I'd try to do as a baseline, with the numbers tweaked from there. Scaled for a 7 player game where the non-outlier groups are 3 players each: * In the grouping phase, Outlier gains 1000 points for each other player in their jar. This incentivizes the groups to not just let a jar have 4 players in it since that would give the outlier more points than they get, but it means the outlier would get 2000 points for being in a jar of 3, the same as the regular players would get if they grouped correctly into that same jar. * In the accusation phase, the points are subdivided a bit. ** Every player, including the outlier, gets 1500 points if they successfully identify the outlier. ** If the group successfully calls out the outlier, all regular players get an extra 1500 points. If they fail to, the outlier gets 1500 points instead. * This rewards individual players who can make the identification while still preserving the incentive for the outlier to keep themselves hidden and reward the group as a whole for identifying them
tbh I think it would be cool if instead of the outlier earning points for just existing during the jar phase (cant remember the actual phase name) they should earn points for managing to get in a group that DOES match for everyone except themself
I think most of the games with that artstyle (probably from the same dev team?) are "Perfect concept, subpar execution". It's really disheartening, I can only imagine how fun Joke Boat, Split the Room or this game could have been with more polish
From the creators of “we made the wacky cosmetic awards determine the entire game” and “F%$& it, RNG Trivia”, comes “This guy wins because we decided he should at the beginning of the game” 💀 (Also, just want to note that I hold Talking Points as peak jackbox and am like the 1 guy who likes Wheel of Enormous Proportions, but that’s because they’re both games where your not meant to play them too seriously, whereas Hypnotoriuos is)
I'm a bit late, but the applause bonus not matching the visual could be for game balance. It wouldn't feel right if a pop-up didn't appear every time someone hit applause, so it shows the +5 for every tap. But that would add up to a _ton_ of points, and it could be unfair to award that many points just because someone can tap really fast, so the actual score that's awarded might be lowered on purpose to prevent applause from being too powerful. Nobody would notice if the applause bonus is off without rewatching the footage anyway, so for the most part it would be fine. A lot of games tell little lies to make themselves feel better, this could be a case of that. Or maybe it's accurately counting taps but showing extra pop-ups just for visual flair? There are a lot of possibilities there. Of course, the game has far bigger balance issues than that, but it's a possible explanation. Disclaimer: I have never played Hypnotorious, nor any Jackbox game, so I might be spewing nonsense.
Applause points can actually be stacked infinitely. I remember coming across a bug while testing that left an applause vote continuously run while the game was paused. I resumed the game after about 10 minutes, and that one person ended up receiving around 12,000 applause points alone. (this wasn't in a real game though, no players were harmed) My best guess to the mismatch would just be the engine the game runs off, since PHP via a web browser sends and receives messages once around every 0.2 seconds on average
The biggest issue with the outlier for me is simply how theres no gameplay for them, and they are only challenged when everyone else plays perfect. Your actions in grouping stage never matters, deception won't matter as you are rewarded when the group does and doesn't catch you, and voting for yourself or not is also not a choice. I feel like the outlier can still get a lotta points and be fine, but it needs to be proportional to how much the outlier plays well. You can lean into the symmetrical deduction aspects and give the 2k points but only if the outlier gets in the sole remaining jar. Or you can lean into the deception and reduce the passive points by a lot or completely remove it, and base outlier gameplay on really trying to fit in the entire time, so you can top the scoreboards by not getting caught. It's that crazy idea of how the outlier has to lie to themself to keep everyone guessing wrong that really plays with the crazy idea of making a social deduction game where the traitor doesn't know they are one. I'm not a big social deduction person but those lean into the themes of the game the most I think. Pursuing the symmetry or showcasing the unique aspect of a role hidden to its player. Making the Outlier at the minimum be forced to play well is enough to make the rewards they get be balanced.
I think i treat hypnotorious like i treat role models. My friends love role models, but we never ever ever care about the score. We enjoy the game because its funny to call each other things, to do mini challenges when we have clashing roles, and to see the funny title. Hypnotorious is funny to argue about each others roles while blind, but you can fully ignore the points.
New most underrated youtuber in my opinion, how tf do you only have 126 subs that is CRAZY. This video is better than some from youtubers with over 100K
I was recommended this video, so iirc I put it away to watch later, and bam, Design Doc recommends it. I guess I can say that I saw it (briefly, fleetingly) before it was cool 😎 Thanks for the cool vid! It was a pleasure to watch.
It would be cool to see a score appear at the end of the game in the modification. This can easily be done by inserting the score into the game's credits (like in Nonsensory or in The Wheel of EP)
oh man now that I know I WANT a hypnotorious mod to fix this! I’ve been wanting to play it with friends for a while and it would be awesome to get to introduce it with Not Terrible scoring
If youre going to make a mod you should add someone who isnt an outlier in the traditional sense but tries to get picked as the outlier. Might spice things up idk.
2:04 I feel like this is probably intentional. This mechanic isn’t too consequential, but having a hidden cap or rate limit on applause points sounds like an accessibility feature they’d implement.
I do think the basic ideas behind this game's scoring work OK-for example, the outlier handicap makes a *slight* amount of sense since they aren't getting the grouping bonuses. But you're absolutely correct that the numbers are all off.
As for reworks, I think the outlier should be rewarded for matching with any other player, but less so than currently (like let’s say 500), so that they’re likely to have more consistent points while good regular players will still out-perform them. However, I feel like the accusation phase should be where the outlier makes their big break. So theoretically there are 3 scenarios where you’d want to reward the outlier: A: voting for them self and getting caught, B: Getting away with it, and C: Getting away with it AND voting for themself. Out of these, A should just be a participation award for when it’s obvious, B should be a reward similar to guessing them, and C should be a very handsome reward for catching it yourself, tricking the other players, and having the balls to add a vote to your own name. With that, I think 500 for A, 3000 for B, and 4000 for C would work out great, making it so the outlier is able to match the points gotten by players in the first round by getting away with it. As for the jar size problem, I think the people with the smaller jars should get more points for matching with their player. Maybe something like a 4 jar gives out 1000, a 3 jar gives out 1250, and a 2 jar gives out 1500 could work to help combat the natural bandwagons that split up lower jars. Either way this is all just me throwing ideas at the wall. 10/10 video would ruin my favorite Pack 10 game again 💀😄
It feels like this game would be better as a pure collaborative effort rather than as a versus, especially because the outlier doesn’t even know they’re the outlier?
Design Doc says hi. The way I would change the Outlier is to make it voting for yourself as the outlier a gamble instead of free points. The Outlier gets 750 points each round and doesn't matter where they group. If you are the outlier and vote for yourself: Gain 3000 Points If you are NOT the outlier and vote for yourself: Lose 1000 Points If you are the outlier and the outlier does NOT get the majority: Gain 2000 Points If you are NOT the outlier and the outlier gets the majority: Gain 2000 Points The numbers can be changed if their bad, but I want to keep the majority needed to get the outlier rule since that can cause so much chaos.
per person successfully grouped in a 2: 2,000 points per person successfully grouped in a 3: 1,333 points per person successfully grouped in a 4: 1,000 points per person in the outlier's jar who did not think the outlier was in their jar (points to the outlier): 2,000 per person in the outlier's jar who did think the outlier was in their jar (and were correct): 1,000 per person outside of the outlier's jar that did not think the outlier was in their jar: 1,000 if the outlier believes the outlier is in their jar: 1,000 successful guess of outlier by yourself: 1,000 points successful guess of outlier overall: 2,000 points (these two would be added together, if someone did not directly vote for the outlier themselves they only get the 2,000 bonus) outlier guesses themself and does not get caught: 2,000 points outlier guesses themself and does get caught: 500 points after the players place themselves in jars, they get to choose whether they think the outlier is in the jar with them for a chance at extra points.
for outlier balancing, i'd make it so that if they groop with other players during that faze, they get points, but in retern, have the jars have a max emount, being a 3 groop jar and a 2 groop jar, with the 3rd one being a unshure jar that has no max brains
super pleasantly surprised about the quality of this video. I saw the amount of views and my bias just kind of assumed it'd be terrible but the statistics and clear structure was pretty mindblowing. you can tell an insane amount of effort was put in. great work!
My friend group has much more fun trying to deduce what everyone is based on their hints and groupings. The points just don't really matter. I feel like that would have been a better direction to take the game
If I were to make that a way to get points it's easy that identifying someone would give points. Not being discovered is harder. Being rewarded for not being selected means rewarding bad hints, rewarding being identified does the opposite and rewards easy hints. My best stab at a solution would be to make one correct identification the optimal amount of points for both players, but for each player that gets it right the amount is devided favoring the identifiers over the identity being guessed. If the identity gets no correct guesses they get no points. That encourages clever hints not everyone will pick up on, but not so cryptic no one will.
This game is still FUN to play, but the scoring IS like… odd. If you completely ignore scoring and just fuck around with friends this is a perfectly good game.
Before my biggest gripe with Hypnotorious was just the bad categories and roles like obscure fictonal characters or having to guess the first letter of what the game named your role and having to keep tabs on everybody's anwsers, but now it's even worse, since you can't win anyway. That's awful
So .... My play group all decided we hated this game almost immediately because it was too easy to figure out the outlier. We played 5 (5 player) games before we just gave up on it because I'm all 10 rounds everyone instantly realized who was in their group with maybe 2 or 3 mistakes over the entire game. And the imposter always identified themselves and then struggled to rationalize why they weren't. That combined with the confusing results of the winner (the imposter never voted for themselves, i think we didn't know that was a mechanic) just left us all thinking this was the WORST jackbox game yet.
Honestly, party pack 10 is just a mess. Time Jinx is a semi-standard trivia game about knowing what year something happened in, it also says "Time Jinx" when multiple people guess the same year, which means nothing. Fixytext is just messing around in google docs, but a game which could bug out and not have your text show up. You already covered how this game (hypnotorious) is just a mess. And Tee-KO 2 is also braketeering now, so a LOT of the shock humor is lost, which is a problem because thats the only humor tbat can be easily done. Dodo Re Mi actualy works, but is also basically a single player game, as there is no interaction between players. Yeah 10 is the weakest pack, 1 at least has the excuse of being the first one, so of course they didnt know what they were doing yet.
Flaws with social deduction games: Among Us: You can't take it seriously anymore with all of the memes. Hypnotorious: Here's a free 2000 points for being the outlier. Also I think self accusation SHOULD be awarded because not even the outlier knows who the outlier is, just around 1000 I think IDK
i think the outlier not knowing they're the outlier and being incentivized to find themselves out is a fun and unique idea. the rewards for "deceiving" other players should be minimal, or even nonexistent. you should be trying to find yourself out. you could just score the outlier like you score the other players. getting in a jar with others would always be wrong, but being in a jar alone would be counted as correct. of course, this has a chance of screwing the outlier over if someone else gets in their jar and won't budge. so maybe have a dedicated outlier jar/jars that only hold one player. this could replace the voting phase.
This game was so confusing and awfully designed that our friend group fought during the game to the point of tears. "This can't possible be how the game is supposed to be played." I'm so glad there's other Hypnotorious haters out here
I can't believe all of the other people are talking about Design Docs! I was recommended this video and watched all the way through, and then since the first video I was reccomended was the Design Docs tutorial video. So imagine my suprise when at the end of the video he links to the video I JUST WATCHED! Very "you're everywhere" feeling
OK, but can we also talk about how the secret hint everyone gets on their phone is the exact same? (I only found this out when other players would ignore the rules and just say or heavily imply the secret hint out loud) It then felt very pointless to pretend we all didn't know the secret hint.
If you think this is bad, just wait. (tl;dr at bottom) So, since it is nearly impossible for the outlier to not have a lead after the grouping section, they just need to vote with the majority to extend their lead REGARDLESS OF WHO THE MAJORITY ACCUSES. The only way I can think of to lose in this scenario is for a perfect group of 4 to keep together for all three phases. Even then they only win by 1000. The counterplay by the outlier? Just join their bucket. The max points they can each get ties with the outlier's passive points. Do that after only one guess phase, and you win anyway. The outlier wins easier if they identify themselves, even if everybody else does. If no one identifies the outlier? They win anyway. They would need to be the only one not to know and for the perfect group of four. tl;dr - the outlier only needs to vote with the majority to win without exception
@@jokerofspades-xt3bs yeah jackbox is notorious (heh) for STILL making all their games with Flash after all these years. it's also why their games are incredibly easy to mod!
I came from the Design Doc Video, and I was so surprised to learn that you make such high quality videos with only 100 subs. You’ve earned a sub
Me too :)
Thanks for this comment, I loved this video and didn’t realize this guy had such a low sub count (285 at this point) so now I subscribed too!
I'M SORRY, HE HAD *HOW MANY????*
I feel like the 5000 for self voting and 3000 for not being picked as the outlier has got to be a bug, why else would it be told the exact opposite in-game.
I want to let you know I did NOT get sent here by design doc, I was algorithm recomended here, probably based on other game design and/or jackbox videos I watch. Very interesting breakdown on this broken game. The numbers shown for points gained aren't even true half the time? Wonder how that got through testing. Unless it's intentionally misleading which I shutter to think.
I think I prefer the idea of the outlier being totally unaware that they're the outlier, but incentivizing the outlier to do something? I'm split between "find out and deduce themselves" or "hide in the group and blame someone else."
"This was going to be a youtube short"
*video is half an hour long*
It seems rather clear that the issue was Hypnotorious being rushed (actually I feel like DodoReMi forced the entire rest of the pack to be rushed but I digress), all of these balancing blunders feel like bandaids to other blunders and had very little time to be tested and refined. For instance, the free 2000 points every turn feel like a cheap solution to the majority having the advantage in prior builds. I also genuinely think that the self vote and getting away scores being swapped is a bug. If the game just had a little more time in the oven, I'm sure Hypnotorious would've been far better.
sorry for offtopic but you always give me a jumpscare everytime you appear on any random video 😭
@@messyslimey5246 long time no see buckaroo
Wait this is weird this is the first time ive seen a video from this person yet you seem to just APPEAR EVERYWHERE.
Really is a small world, especially on the internet XD
I remember having similar issues with Push the Button. In that game being the alien was also just an instant win. I get that in social deduction games, you want the "imposter" to have some kind of advantage but it gets so skewed in that game that it seems almost impossible to get it right. Awesome vid though, love people talking about jackbox games.
Personally I really enjoy PTB, but I won't deny that with certain player counts it can get REALLY hard. Thank you!
Idk if it's a case of player count, but in the discord server i play jackbox with, 6/10 Push the Button games i play are human wins.
I disagree. Even in a 5 player game where most of the rounds gave us zilch for helpful info, there was still just enough for me to make an educated guess - a guess that would've won the game if the other humans didn't vote against it.
It's rare for the humans to have enough information to 100% single out who the aliens are, and I think the game is better off for it. I've heard 8 player push sucks, and I usually play with low player counts (4-6 typically).
I think it is balance only if everyone is very good and knowledgeable of the game. If even one person doesn’t know how to play it can be a pain.
The difference is that PTB is really fun.
I came from design doc, and before watching that video I had no idea this game even exists. That being said, thoroughly enjoyed this entire video, it was so interesting and I can’t believe you only have 100 subscribers
What video was it
Capsid here! Dear viewers, be glad I didn't speak up - my voice sounds like Crash Bandicoot jumping on a bed like a kid.
As for my ideas for a rework, the obvious change is to give the Outlier 1000 points for each player they group with. That way, they're actually incentivized to blend in.
I wouldn't say your voice sounds like that but the simile is hilarious
lol
and it would de-insentivise everyone grouping in the same jar!
I wonder how much of these issues would've been solved if the game just showed all the player's final scores at the end. Like I feel for the people testing the game, they could've immediately pieced together that something was off just seeing the outlier consistently end up with double the points of everyone else. Hiding that info makes it so much harder to solve problems, so it makes all the sense in the world that it would lead to an asymmetric game like this being horribly one-sided.
The attention from the Design Doc video is actually working. I came here directly from the algorithm as a recommended video. Here's a comment to keep that train going!
After watching the sections on the scoring system and how it impacts the game, I feel like the scoring system was just tacked on for no reason, the whole thing feels like an afterthought because "oooo its jackbox and jackbox games always have a winner/points system" all they needed to do is a simple find outlier, group win. loose outlier, outlier win thing like in EVERY OTHER SOCIAL DEDUCTION GAVE THAT HAS EVER EXISTED.
Maybe their point was for the players not to get super into it, since the only other jackbox game that is actually fun but also with a useless scoring system is role models, but that line of thinking completely contradicts the roleplay aspects well as it being a social deduction game which by design, requires you to pay attention to what everyone else is doing and saying.
The idea of a social deduction game having a scoring system in general sounds completely ridiculous to me, but if anyone can find one that does and it somehow doesn't play like shit, let me know I'm genuinely curious.
Also, this is a really neat video, the algorithm must have blessed you or something because this just slid into my recommended and I didn't even know there was a new design docs video out.
Well, another way I could have imagined the design starting was "Role Model, but changing things so the points actually matter." So people are assigned roles/groups that everyone is supposed to sus out: getting the groupings correct gets you points and determines whoever was the best at figuring out the groups. But since this basically turns the whole thing into a social deduction game, the outlier felt like a natural mechanic to include, which just didn't actually work with the point system.
However it started, the issue is that the point system doesn't really work with the asymmetric social deduction. I think it would be interesting to split it into two different game modes: points with no outlier and everyone vs the outlier.
Comment: "No good social deduction game should have points"
Fakin' it: *exists* (not that I like Fkin' it that much)
I've never even heard of Hypnotorious
How did I get here
aw hell yeah a half-hour long video about a game i never knew existed nor intend to play! sweet!
The numbers are tricky because you want to incentivize the outlier to blend in without turning the grouping phase into a musical chairs situation of them trying to just worm their way into a proper group's jar at the last second, but with that caveat in mind, here's what I'd try to do as a baseline, with the numbers tweaked from there. Scaled for a 7 player game where the non-outlier groups are 3 players each:
* In the grouping phase, Outlier gains 1000 points for each other player in their jar. This incentivizes the groups to not just let a jar have 4 players in it since that would give the outlier more points than they get, but it means the outlier would get 2000 points for being in a jar of 3, the same as the regular players would get if they grouped correctly into that same jar.
* In the accusation phase, the points are subdivided a bit.
** Every player, including the outlier, gets 1500 points if they successfully identify the outlier.
** If the group successfully calls out the outlier, all regular players get an extra 1500 points. If they fail to, the outlier gets 1500 points instead.
* This rewards individual players who can make the identification while still preserving the incentive for the outlier to keep themselves hidden and reward the group as a whole for identifying them
I just came here for design doc video. The game really really needs both tutorial revamps and rebalancing.
tbh I think it would be cool if instead of the outlier earning points for just existing during the jar phase (cant remember the actual phase name) they should earn points for managing to get in a group that DOES match for everyone except themself
absolutely ADORE the way you used the brain animation to deliver this essay
I think most of the games with that artstyle (probably from the same dev team?) are "Perfect concept, subpar execution". It's really disheartening, I can only imagine how fun Joke Boat, Split the Room or this game could have been with more polish
The only game with this style that has great gameplay is monster seeking monster, which is an outlier that proves the rule
@@megatennepster3833 Monster Seeking Monster is good but it too suffers from it a bit of balancing issues imo.
Even Job Job? (Also, the lead artist for these games is Owen Watson if you wanted to look up his other work.)
@@jasonwalton9553 No Job Job's fine, I forgot about it when writing the comment. Thanks for the artist's name, I'll look it up
From the creators of “we made the wacky cosmetic awards determine the entire game” and “F%$& it, RNG Trivia”, comes “This guy wins because we decided he should at the beginning of the game” 💀
(Also, just want to note that I hold Talking Points as peak jackbox and am like the 1 guy who likes Wheel of Enormous Proportions, but that’s because they’re both games where your not meant to play them too seriously, whereas Hypnotoriuos is)
Ah dang both of these got brought up right after I posted this. Whoops
I wish you had at least presented what the heck Hypnotorious is, how it's played
I'm a bit late, but the applause bonus not matching the visual could be for game balance. It wouldn't feel right if a pop-up didn't appear every time someone hit applause, so it shows the +5 for every tap. But that would add up to a _ton_ of points, and it could be unfair to award that many points just because someone can tap really fast, so the actual score that's awarded might be lowered on purpose to prevent applause from being too powerful. Nobody would notice if the applause bonus is off without rewatching the footage anyway, so for the most part it would be fine. A lot of games tell little lies to make themselves feel better, this could be a case of that. Or maybe it's accurately counting taps but showing extra pop-ups just for visual flair? There are a lot of possibilities there. Of course, the game has far bigger balance issues than that, but it's a possible explanation.
Disclaimer: I have never played Hypnotorious, nor any Jackbox game, so I might be spewing nonsense.
Applause points can actually be stacked infinitely. I remember coming across a bug while testing that left an applause vote continuously run while the game was paused. I resumed the game after about 10 minutes, and that one person ended up receiving around 12,000 applause points alone. (this wasn't in a real game though, no players were harmed)
My best guess to the mismatch would just be the engine the game runs off, since PHP via a web browser sends and receives messages once around every 0.2 seconds on average
The biggest issue with the outlier for me is simply how theres no gameplay for them, and they are only challenged when everyone else plays perfect.
Your actions in grouping stage never matters, deception won't matter as you are rewarded when the group does and doesn't catch you, and voting for yourself or not is also not a choice.
I feel like the outlier can still get a lotta points and be fine, but it needs to be proportional to how much the outlier plays well.
You can lean into the symmetrical deduction aspects and give the 2k points but only if the outlier gets in the sole remaining jar. Or you can lean into the deception and reduce the passive points by a lot or completely remove it, and base outlier gameplay on really trying to fit in the entire time, so you can top the scoreboards by not getting caught. It's that crazy idea of how the outlier has to lie to themself to keep everyone guessing wrong that really plays with the crazy idea of making a social deduction game where the traitor doesn't know they are one.
I'm not a big social deduction person but those lean into the themes of the game the most I think. Pursuing the symmetry or showcasing the unique aspect of a role hidden to its player.
Making the Outlier at the minimum be forced to play well is enough to make the rewards they get be balanced.
Only 600 subs? Get my guy some more these vids are 🔥
I think i treat hypnotorious like i treat role models. My friends love role models, but we never ever ever care about the score. We enjoy the game because its funny to call each other things, to do mini challenges when we have clashing roles, and to see the funny title. Hypnotorious is funny to argue about each others roles while blind, but you can fully ignore the points.
idk who tf design doc is the youtube rng just gave me this video, sending this to my jackbox friends right nyow i want boated hypnotorious!!!
New most underrated youtuber in my opinion, how tf do you only have 126 subs that is CRAZY. This video is better than some from youtubers with over 100K
The new algorithm is to thank for. It is suggesting smaller channels that has recently posted a video
I was recommended this video, so iirc I put it away to watch later, and bam, Design Doc recommends it. I guess I can say that I saw it (briefly, fleetingly) before it was cool 😎
Thanks for the cool vid! It was a pleasure to watch.
It would be cool to see a score appear at the end of the game in the modification. This can easily be done by inserting the score into the game's credits (like in Nonsensory or in The Wheel of EP)
here from the "What's Up With These Sketchy Tutorials?" video by Design Doc
you're severely underrated!! your videos are so well made
I think the best you can possibly achieve is "second-best social deduction game in the franchise" because Push The Button exists, but what do I know?
oh man now that I know I WANT a hypnotorious mod to fix this! I’ve been wanting to play it with friends for a while and it would be awesome to get to introduce it with Not Terrible scoring
If youre going to make a mod you should add someone who isnt an outlier in the traditional sense but tries to get picked as the outlier. Might spice things up idk.
2:04 I feel like this is probably intentional. This mechanic isn’t too consequential, but having a hidden cap or rate limit on applause points sounds like an accessibility feature they’d implement.
I do think the basic ideas behind this game's scoring work OK-for example, the outlier handicap makes a *slight* amount of sense since they aren't getting the grouping bonuses. But you're absolutely correct that the numbers are all off.
i would probably make the outlier just have the same point system as everyone + fixes
As for reworks, I think the outlier should be rewarded for matching with any other player, but less so than currently (like let’s say 500), so that they’re likely to have more consistent points while good regular players will still out-perform them. However, I feel like the accusation phase should be where the outlier makes their big break.
So theoretically there are 3 scenarios where you’d want to reward the outlier: A: voting for them self and getting caught, B: Getting away with it, and C: Getting away with it AND voting for themself. Out of these, A should just be a participation award for when it’s obvious, B should be a reward similar to guessing them, and C should be a very handsome reward for catching it yourself, tricking the other players, and having the balls to add a vote to your own name. With that, I think 500 for A, 3000 for B, and 4000 for C would work out great, making it so the outlier is able to match the points gotten by players in the first round by getting away with it.
As for the jar size problem, I think the people with the smaller jars should get more points for matching with their player. Maybe something like a 4 jar gives out 1000, a 3 jar gives out 1250, and a 2 jar gives out 1500 could work to help combat the natural bandwagons that split up lower jars.
Either way this is all just me throwing ideas at the wall. 10/10 video would ruin my favorite Pack 10 game again 💀😄
It feels like this game would be better as a pure collaborative effort rather than as a versus, especially because the outlier doesn’t even know they’re the outlier?
Design Doc says hi.
The way I would change the Outlier is to make it voting for yourself as the outlier a gamble instead of free points. The Outlier gets 750 points each round and doesn't matter where they group.
If you are the outlier and vote for yourself: Gain 3000 Points
If you are NOT the outlier and vote for yourself: Lose 1000 Points
If you are the outlier and the outlier does NOT get the majority: Gain 2000 Points
If you are NOT the outlier and the outlier gets the majority: Gain 2000 Points
The numbers can be changed if their bad, but I want to keep the majority needed to get the outlier rule since that can cause so much chaos.
per person successfully grouped in a 2: 2,000 points
per person successfully grouped in a 3: 1,333 points
per person successfully grouped in a 4: 1,000 points
per person in the outlier's jar who did not think the outlier was in their jar (points to the outlier): 2,000
per person in the outlier's jar who did think the outlier was in their jar (and were correct): 1,000
per person outside of the outlier's jar that did not think the outlier was in their jar: 1,000
if the outlier believes the outlier is in their jar: 1,000
successful guess of outlier by yourself: 1,000 points
successful guess of outlier overall: 2,000 points (these two would be added together, if someone did not directly vote for the outlier themselves they only get the 2,000 bonus)
outlier guesses themself and does not get caught: 2,000 points
outlier guesses themself and does get caught: 500 points
after the players place themselves in jars, they get to choose whether they think the outlier is in the jar with them for a chance at extra points.
and make applause points actually give 5 per clap but limit the total given per player to 200 points an applause segment. leave audience votes normal.
I’m going to watch this video because I enjoy hypnotorious :D
you have been warned
not for long
for outlier balancing, i'd make it so that if they groop with other players during that faze, they get points, but in retern, have the jars have a max emount, being a 3 groop jar and a 2 groop jar, with the 3rd one being a unshure jar that has no max brains
Ow my cranium
super pleasantly surprised about the quality of this video. I saw the amount of views and my bias just kind of assumed it'd be terrible but the statistics and clear structure was pretty mindblowing. you can tell an insane amount of effort was put in. great work!
great video, but please consider reducing the amount of motion in your background graphic, its kinda nauseating on bigger screens
My friend group has much more fun trying to deduce what everyone is based on their hints and groupings. The points just don't really matter.
I feel like that would have been a better direction to take the game
If I were to make that a way to get points it's easy that identifying someone would give points.
Not being discovered is harder. Being rewarded for not being selected means rewarding bad hints, rewarding being identified does the opposite and rewards easy hints.
My best stab at a solution would be to make one correct identification the optimal amount of points for both players, but for each player that gets it right the amount is devided favoring the identifiers over the identity being guessed.
If the identity gets no correct guesses they get no points.
That encourages clever hints not everyone will pick up on, but not so cryptic no one will.
i tied in this game once with someone (think we both were outlier)
idk how but i did
hello from design docs and this makes my experience with the game make a whole lot more sense lol
As a New Zealander, hearing a New Zealand accent on youtube without knowing it's a NZ RUclipsr gave me a visceral reaction.
Hell yeah, another fellow New Zealander!
@ngheeapprentice Woooo! Love to see a New Zealander making quality content 🇳🇿🇳🇿🇳🇿🇳🇿🥝🥝🥝🥝🥝
This game is still FUN to play, but the scoring IS like… odd. If you completely ignore scoring and just fuck around with friends this is a perfectly good game.
Before my biggest gripe with Hypnotorious was just the bad categories and roles like obscure fictonal characters or having to guess the first letter of what the game named your role and having to keep tabs on everybody's anwsers, but now it's even worse, since you can't win anyway. That's awful
So .... My play group all decided we hated this game almost immediately because it was too easy to figure out the outlier. We played 5 (5 player) games before we just gave up on it because I'm all 10 rounds everyone instantly realized who was in their group with maybe 2 or 3 mistakes over the entire game. And the imposter always identified themselves and then struggled to rationalize why they weren't.
That combined with the confusing results of the winner (the imposter never voted for themselves, i think we didn't know that was a mechanic) just left us all thinking this was the WORST jackbox game yet.
Honestly, party pack 10 is just a mess.
Time Jinx is a semi-standard trivia game about knowing what year something happened in, it also says "Time Jinx" when multiple people guess the same year, which means nothing.
Fixytext is just messing around in google docs, but a game which could bug out and not have your text show up.
You already covered how this game (hypnotorious) is just a mess.
And Tee-KO 2 is also braketeering now, so a LOT of the shock humor is lost, which is a problem because thats the only humor tbat can be easily done.
Dodo Re Mi actualy works, but is also basically a single player game, as there is no interaction between players.
Yeah 10 is the weakest pack, 1 at least has the excuse of being the first one, so of course they didnt know what they were doing yet.
Flaws with social deduction games:
Among Us: You can't take it seriously anymore with all of the memes.
Hypnotorious: Here's a free 2000 points for being the outlier.
Also I think self accusation SHOULD be awarded because not even the outlier knows who the outlier is, just around 1000 I think IDK
At least the little brain guys are really cute lol, I like the art director of this game and split the room :( hope they're working on a better game
i think the outlier not knowing they're the outlier and being incentivized to find themselves out is a fun and unique idea. the rewards for "deceiving" other players should be minimal, or even nonexistent. you should be trying to find yourself out.
you could just score the outlier like you score the other players. getting in a jar with others would always be wrong, but being in a jar alone would be counted as correct. of course, this has a chance of screwing the outlier over if someone else gets in their jar and won't budge. so maybe have a dedicated outlier jar/jars that only hold one player. this could replace the voting phase.
This game was so confusing and awfully designed that our friend group fought during the game to the point of tears. "This can't possible be how the game is supposed to be played." I'm so glad there's other Hypnotorious haters out here
maybe the game lets you chose 3 from a few catagories to ensure they know what they should be expecting, also adding drawing
I think my favorite aspect of Hypnotorious is already in Roomerang: answering questions as a character rather than yourself.
60 seconds turned to 30 minutes. i expected worse
Wait, modded Jackbox exists!?
how tf do you have so little subs
i like the fact they are sorta testing the waters with updating old games, considering the recent tmp update with tons more questions.
I can't believe all of the other people are talking about Design Docs! I was recommended this video and watched all the way through, and then since the first video I was reccomended was the Design Docs tutorial video. So imagine my suprise when at the end of the video he links to the video I JUST WATCHED! Very "you're everywhere" feeling
i wish you did a brief explanation of how the game is actually played
Great video! commenting for algorithm
OK, but can we also talk about how the secret hint everyone gets on their phone is the exact same? (I only found this out when other players would ignore the rules and just say or heavily imply the secret hint out loud) It then felt very pointless to pretend we all didn't know the secret hint.
This actually was the behaviour on launch, but this did get fixed in the major patch (unlike the scoring)
If you think this is bad, just wait. (tl;dr at bottom)
So, since it is nearly impossible for the outlier to not have a lead after the grouping section, they just need to vote with the majority to extend their lead REGARDLESS OF WHO THE MAJORITY ACCUSES. The only way I can think of to lose in this scenario is for a perfect group of 4 to keep together for all three phases. Even then they only win by 1000. The counterplay by the outlier? Just join their bucket. The max points they can each get ties with the outlier's passive points. Do that after only one guess phase, and you win anyway.
The outlier wins easier if they identify themselves, even if everybody else does. If no one identifies the outlier? They win anyway. They would need to be the only one not to know and for the perfect group of four.
tl;dr - the outlier only needs to vote with the majority to win without exception
CORPORATE CLASH MENTION!
make a mod
do it
PLEASE
I have never seen or heard of this game, i just clicked and stayed because this video is really well made and only has 6k views.
Nghee's rebalance mod when
"Soon."
- RobTopGames
@@ngheeapprentice
so like: 2.2 comes out 7 years after 2.1 soon or *soon* soon
Im barley into the video but the production quality on this video is insane, hope you get more subs soon because this is pretty great
This pack feels like its on right track, but they released the game forgetting all the important last patches to the game
it somehow. managed to be a Worse Version of Push The Button. the one everyone HATES
DAMN
What if there was no outlier, two full groups without an accusation phase
fantastic video :) id absolutely play the mod you pitched.
actually incredible video
love how rushed jackbox 10 was LOL
great video
28:45 Yup, You got the same thing that i like about the game.
Including the game play being we'll...
Not good.
This was nice I will be subscribing and hoping for more
This video is incredibly underrated. Really good stuff!
big creeps20 energy. good video all around!
Why is your cat so big
This made me audibly laugh
Where did you get the transparent images of the brain guy. I want them sooo bad
I'd assume he pulled them straight from the game files. Unity games are easy to extract assets from.
@@henke37 Hypnotorious is made from Flash, not Unity.
@@PanchamBro Wait its made on Flash?!?!?
@@jokerofspades-xt3bs yeah jackbox is notorious (heh) for STILL making all their games with Flash after all these years. it's also why their games are incredibly easy to mod!
Who's here from designdoc? ✋️
GRRRRR HOW DARE YOU INSULT HYPNOTORIOUS YOU WILL BE CANCELLED!!!!!!!!!!!111111111 /j
Alt title: Idiot describes how hypnotorious is unfair
"describes how hypnotorious is unfair" tells me you agree with ngheeapprentice, but "idiot" tells me you do not agree. Which is it?
bro whats your problem 😭😭