Why Women Love Astarion - Fantasy In Real Life
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- Other than being a "hot and sexy vampire", Astarion has a lot more to his character that lures women in than you may think.
This is the beginning of a series called "Fantasy In Real Life" where I talk about the affects that fantasy has on us...well...in real life. And what better way to start it than with the sensational rouge himself.
And no, this isn't even a character analysis on Astarion...cause I still want to do a video about that later on-
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A few things so I don't keep getting the same comments from men whining:
1. This is not a character analysis. As has been already stated in the description this whole time. This is, just like the title says, a video explaining why women love Astarion. And, obviously, women are not a monolith, so not every woman will feel the same. This is explaining why a lot of the women that like Astarion like him in the first place.
2. The reason why women can like Astarion for these reasons even though there was that scene in the beginning, when he can end up killing you or drinking from you nonconsensually, is because a lot of them can separate that part of the fictional world from reality. I always talk about how fiction affects reality, yes. But sometimes, you can, say, see a vampire character who feeds from you because he is starving after 200 years of little to no food, and separate it from reality where it would feel sexual and like a violation, because it's not happening in reality, he's a vampire, and sometimes you just wanna have fun and not think too deeply about a fantasy game. But since his assault is a gigantic part of him and isn't the same as the biting scene which CAN be seen as sexual but isn't inherently, it's impossible to ignore, especially when you relate.
3. This is about WOMEN specifically because I wanted to talk about WOMEN. This is part of a series where I'll be delving a lot more into fantasy affecting reality in all different demographics. This one is about women.
4. Yeah, obviously, beauty standards have a role to play in this, and they like him cause he fits the eurocentric beauty standards. Thought that was a given since it literally plays a part in any attraction to anyone, even as you work to remove it from yourself.
Lastly, I'm so deeply glad that I could help all of you who have let me know the impact my video has had on you. And all of those who didn't. You guys are the sweetest, and you make my day a little easier to get through. Be kind to yourselves and don't settle or put up with anyone who treats you with anything less than respect and the kindness you deserve. See you guys next time ❤
I'll watch the video tomorrow during lunch break at work because I'm literally going to sleep and it's 1 a.m. here. But before I do, here's a little input from someone, a woman, who never subscribed to the whole vampire romance fantasy that was started by Twilight, and Twilight was popular when I was literally 13.
Astarion's story is the only one among companions that deals with things like abuse and trauma and overcoming it, realizing that you can be liked and even loved for who you are, that there are people who will care about you unconditionally, that you're worth all the help and care that they might want to offer. That you don't have to live in fear, and your trauma doesn't have to control you. That you can learn to stand up for yourself, and to love yourself. And, a HUGE, HUGE, GIAGANTIC part of his story, that you can make your own choices.
Him being a vampire, having nice facial features and abs, is the least important thing about him.
On my first playthrough, I didn't let him bite me and didn't romance him. That playthrough ended in early act 3 and I haven't finished his story, didn't even know what the scars were about (didn't know it was Infernal and he didn't meet Raphael in act 2, since I benched him in late act 1 because he kept disapproving of my character being nice and helpful and was bordering on negative approval, lmao).
On my second playthrough, I focused on getting his approval pretty early on, so I could "afford" to be nice and helpful without benching him. I did let him bite me, however uncomfortable it made me feel, and in the end ended up romancing him and I really liked how much extra growth he showed thanks to Tav's support. To see him finally at peace and free of the demons of his past, and genuinely happy, was in a way cathartic. And everything that goes down in the culmination of his companions quest, especially when confronting him about the people who are locked up (without spoiling too much to those who haven't seen it) was one of the strongest moments in the whole game. Definitely more interesting and more emotionally investing than the main story, lol.
It's the depth of his story that makes him so compelling, imo. Then, there's the fact that he's quite funny, in the "do you really think all those cheesy pickup lines do anything, lmao" kinda way and with his little sarcastic comments and how much of a drama queen he is. And on top of it all, his VA, Neil Newbon, did an absolutely fantastic job with the voice acting. You can hear he had SO MUCH fun recording and he really brings it to another level. A delight to listen to.
@future me remember to go into the comment section to actually comment on the video and not just creator's comment, or something, idk. @everyone else thanks for coming to my TedTalk(?) 😅.
> because he is starving after 200 years of little to no food
This isn't why he tries to drink from you. When you play as him, it's revealed that he's doing it to see test if he really can ignore cazador's command.
Yeah I was about to say..
The idea that he represents a sort of sexual safety in women when the literal first thing he does is the exact opposite is a fucking galaxy-brain take lol.
Drinking blood isn’t the same thing as sex, firstly. Not only are they entirely separate things, but one only exists in fiction and therefore is not something women worry about, whereas they worry about being sexually assaulted all the time.
Secondly, women don’t need emotionally stunted men like you to tell them what a character like Astarion represents to them.
@@katze3 ...Huh
Can we talk about how he’s also the only (maybe besides Karlach?) that is like totally cool with just being friends? Like any other character when you reject their advances get a bit bitter about it while Astarion is so happy to have someone as a friend even
He disapproves if you reject him at the party telling you that you’re free to ruin your own night 😅
But yes, later he can be cool with it. I’m just saying that he’s not always like that.
@@camomilehottea yeah that’s true but knowing now that at that point he wasn’t actually interested in Tav and just trying to secure some protection and then later if tav is still like “you need a friend” he’s so happy about it it’s so nice
Shadowheart is really cool about it (sorry bb girl)
@@EALoArt yes and she is crazy sweet about it if you break up with her for Astarion. Something about him being really fragile but you and she can be bffs. It was too cute for my heart.
Gale's fine with being friends if you don't lead him on during the weave scene.
The compilation of women making inhuman sounds over him is the most relatable thing I’ve ever witnessed 😂
ahahahah loved it
Riiight? The cackling!
For me it was the “astarion disapproves. I’m reloading.”
I too was making inhuman noises during the compilation.
FR
Because it is easy to relate to him...and you want to help him heal because you want to heal. Like therapy.
That’s pretty much why I liked Guts (the anime character)
This 100% ❤
You want to be to him what you wanted, needed someone, anyone, to be to you. Because you know what he's been through, and why he does and acts the way he does.
And no one should be forced to go through any of that, ever.
The moment he gets power and freedom, he turns into a piece of shit... He's the evil companion and imo more evil than Minthara (when she's not brainwashed and when she is neutral evil). This all just sounds like a lot of projection on a character you can loosely associate to.... PS you won't fix him....
you can quite literally "fix him" if you don't let him ascend, because he breaks the cyle of abuse@@Grey-po3lz
I never understand why sharing each other’s traumas, feelings, problems etc. is considered “feminine” or why even this has to be something to be ashamed. I love it when fictional men do this, I want to hug them, I care for them. Real men just trying to be cool while they’re crying inside really saddens me.
Yeah, but mind that they often do that, because they know a lot of women love to later weaponise their confession to hurt them, not just because they are affraid they won't seem cool if they share those feelings.
@@LookingForFrogsthat can happen to anyone though
@@nunpho yeah, but very often happen to men who open up to women.
@@LookingForFrogs women are much more empathetic towards that sorta stuff. Not saying that there aren't some weirdos out there, there's toxic masculinity everywhere.
It's usually men who make fun of other men for being emotional whereas women actually want men who are emotional.
@@nunpho I think you're naive, if you think it's not common for women to be this "toxic". But as a society we ate taught to ignore women being abusive towards men.
I had not thought about why we are so emotionally involved with Astarion. It makes so much sense. And I guess it also explain why it is so cathartic to get to slay his abuser. Not like we can slay ours irl.
Yes!
I wish I could though... _Oh god it would feel so great._
❤️
Another thing to note is that female characters don't often get to experience fully fleshed trauma arcs like this. It's often played up to be a trope of "HIGHLY PROMISCUOUS FLIRT" rather than a nuanced unfolding onion of a character with layers and sympathetic motivations. I personally think it's because of the bias against women and that female characters are already viewed in a lesser light. I'm very glad Astarion is male, if only to protect him from the fandom, but also it's the best sex to deliver a storyline in a way that the audience will give him a chance to see his story the whole way through.
Additionally, female characters don't often get the same amount of violent catharsis Astarion has at the end of his quest. So for now, I will live vicariously through his resolution towards his abuser.
If Astarion were female, the degenerate male fans would reduce her to their p0rnsick "rule34" fanarts.
I don't think astarion being a woman would've made him a lesser character but i do agree that probably the promiscuity would've taken a bigger part of the spotlight for the character if that were the case.
For your latter point, i'm not sure if you've finished Karlachs quest >:D
@@deicide9514 I didn't say he'd be lesser if he was female, I said female characters don't often get to experience a fully fleshed trauma arc. I did finish Karlach's quest and again I said female characters don't often get the same amount of violent catharsis Astarion did. Even so, Karlach was able to rage which was awesome but she didn't stab Gortash 100 times over like Astarion did. It's not a criticism of the game or the writing, both stories were handled excellently and I was emotional over both of them, just a general observation involving media in general.
@@nonducorduco7356 yeh, i agree on that
Yeah I'm always sad by how I tend to find male characters more compelling but it's really just because they tend to get more to chew on in terms of writing.
I have spent some time trying to figure out Astarion's appeal. And you really pull out some really interesting tidbits. I think the one that really resonated with me was because Astarion acts flamboyant and effeminate, he is not threatening like a "traditional" cis man. And later you mention how though he gets angry, he does not threaten you (and I'll add, not even with his body language -- Neil Newbon is perfection).
I totally agree with this take. Even when he’s angry he removes himself from the situation; he never threatens the MC. I’ve heard it said “The number one threat to men is heart disease. The number one threat to women is men.” It’s nice to see ‘healthy’ anger expressed like this.
I think also they perfectly walked the line with him. He's absolutely hilarious in a fruity sort of way, but his flamboyancy isn't played for laughs or distracting. It's just, him. They also made him very mult-faceted so it never feels like he's just a walking trope of the sassy-mildly evil-rogue. They could've went so many routes when doing the rogue archetype too, so many studios would've defaulted to your typical aloof bad-boy badass. But Larian really did so many clever things with their characters.Like Karlach being this badass inferal-machine wielding barbarian but is just the sweetest cinnamon roll who has so many adorable moments. She's badass, masculine in so many ways but also feminine. I adore that.
When he's angry he doesn't call you names or comes too close to you, he raises his voice and screams but he expresses his anger with sarcasm and quickly calm down after throwing a bit of a fit. His body language it's way less threatening and he only get this angry when he's really hurt or scared like when talking about Cazador, which is very understandable why he would be this angry. Even when he's exploding with anger he seems way safer to be around than most guys just by how he expresses that anger to other people.
@@blacksesamecandiesyes yes yessss! Karlach is another one of my favourites
I love him but he literally can suck us dry in our sleep. If you don't find him dangerous, then I don't think you get his character. His open stance is meant to be disarming and welcoming, even, TO MAKE HIS PREY LET THEIR GUARD DOWN. Neil said as much. He is not a soft boy.
Honestly, one of the major draws for Astarion for me is actually his voice actor. Neil Newbon, his va, is so completely wholesome and just seems like a wonderful person. He does twitch streams all the time live signing pictures for people with voice lines or plays Baldur's gate on stream. I did find the character first but Neil is also just so wonderful to watch on streams and stuff. Every stream has a little section where he states how his streams are a safe space and how everyone is welcome. Of course, just seeing someone streaming or whatever doesn't mean you truly know the person but that doesn't make the streams any less of a comfortable space.
Agreed, seeing how deeply Neil cares for his audience and what a good soul he has just makes me appreciate him more. ❤
Our needs, desires, wants, boundaries, and bodily autonomy are not cared for, mocked, and downright ignored on purpose. We are objects not people, it's exhausting. I'm absolutely in love with Astarion
I would also like to clarify, as a cis man, ASTARION IS PRECIOUS AND MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS
❤❤❤yess
I wanted him dead first time I saw him, I don’t mind him now that I’ve learned more about him but still not a big fan
@@bruhed1117valid lmao, when he first backstabbed me I was salty
At the beginning I found him frustrating. Especially because I was playing a good character and he kept disapproving everything I did. However, Since getting to act 3 and playing a more morally grey character I find his cutscenes and dialogue to be the most life like.
Thank you, Sir. I came here to say the same thing, as a man.
i’m an ace lesbian but i’m OBSESSED with this man. he’s got me kicking my feet and giggling and i couldn’t place why but honestly i think you put it into words
me too!!
I'm not ace at all and a bisexual woman, but I concur. :3.
I'm not sure if I'm a lesbian, but definitely sapphic and absolutely ace. There's much love for Astarion in the ace community as well
@seagullspit6048 it’s so funny you say that actually bc i went into this game thinking that my gay ass would be head over heels for karlach (buff women have my heart) but NO 💀
EXACTLY THE SAME!!
Before I did the work to heal from my trauma / cPTSD, I did exactly what Astarion did: used seduction for safety. I always wore a mask, like he does through Act 1. 😢 His journey touched me on every level - I’ve laughed, cried & I’ve felt more healed inside giving him what I understand now I deserved myself: gentleness, kindness & understanding.
❤
🥹💖
🥹💗💗
I'm happy for you that you've been working on healing 💗
YES, this was my experience with him as well. Like…ugh. So healing
Breaks my heart that some players hate him for the same reason so many women love him. Killing astarion means losing out on such an interesting character and his story, and I can't believe so many people brag about killing him when he tries to bite you. You don't have to romance him to appreciate him.
I've seen quite a few Astarion hate comments and I've noticed they're almost always (surprise surprise) from men. Some men really can't stand the idea of a male character who is desirable but also not traditionally masculine. Their insecurity is so transparent they may as well be screaming 'no homo' at the top of their lungs.
@@kassjazzy yeah i tried to avoid using the word "men" but its always men 😬
Tbf, when the game first came out people were having trouble getting to know characters without the characters trying to romance the player which was putting straight male players off the male companions in general. Also, Astarion threatens the player's life twice before you get a chance to even get to know him, so the pragmatic nature of many masculine people dictates that the threat should be eliminated.
There's no way the character is as popular as he has become on female fans and gays alone, though... clearly a lot of male players have come around to the character on subsequent playthroughs. I've even seen people who said they hated him early on now saying their opinion of him changed and that they were really surprised by the character. Astarion is kind of like Zevran from DA:O... you really have to work at getting to know him. And unlike Zevran, Astarion can be downright prickly early on. I've also seen men who feel 'seen' as trauma and abuse survivors because of how well it's handled with Astarion and how no one is looking down on the character for being a victim. Men IRL really struggle with a lot of stigma agaist ever coming out as a victim, much less of aexual abuse.
@@kassjazzy I feel like they are also insecure, because they realise women like feminity in men. And they have been trying to be as viril as possible all their lives to attract women. Only to realise that lot of women don't care for that.
@@ANPC-pi9vu Also doesn't help that if you're playing as a good character, Astarion just scoffs and dislikes any action from you that is selfless. Kinda the reason why he earned a permanent spot in the camp until he left because I told some guy he was chilling at my camp. My only regret in that decision was realizing that Astarion had all the good stealth gear equipped 😢
im a woman who's always had a feeling deep in my heart that men have only ever valued me for sex and that was the only loveable quality i was kept around for. i've also been in an abusive relationship. seeing astarion reflect these insecurities, experiences, and trauma as well as his active want to avoid sex (at least in my romance with him) makes me feel really seen, safe, and validated. the dialog where he says something along the lines of "oh yes, sex that's all i'm good for. i know." just makes me want to cry because i have had that same feeling.
i've even getting internally upset with how sexualized he is by people who haven't gone through it all with him (friends joking that i just want astarion to "eat" me irl). i'm refusing to put him in "slutty" outfits in game because i know i've felt like i've had to do the same to have value.. just really see so much of my own pain in him and it's comforting.
No literally, his entire character is someone who as enslaved, sexually abused for 200 years, is finally "freed", is finding out how to exist in the world after 200 years of constant abuse and starvation, having to use sex to keep himself safe, and then people sexualize him more than any other character and to the point of putting a literal dog collar on him and "shocking" him so they can get horny over his reaction to it.
As per usual, the entire point went DIRECTLY past everyone's head. I'm glad to meet someone else with brain cells.
I'm sorry that you've through all that you have and I just want you to know that you did not and do not deserve it. I'm am very glad that you found solace and comfort in Astarion, this is why I am do adamant about fiction affecting reality and why I've started this new series. To show how fantasy impacts reality.
I hope you're doing better now and if you're not, I hope and wish for you to do better soon.
Same here, I also refused to put him in slutty outfits
@@swordinthestone313 yes!! it just makes me so sad to see people completely miss his character for what it is and just make him horny bait. like do that to halsin or gale..
thank you so much for your kind well wishes!! im so happy and lucky to say that i am safe and healing 💕
How did you get Astarion to want to avoid sex? I felt like I had to go through with those scenes although I am uncomfortable with them to get his approval up, plus he came on to me first so I was like "well, yeah, he is traumatized but he's also a grown adult character so if I can't trust his words of consent, who can I trust?" Please teach me your ways
@@ettaetta439 so basically, you'll have the first scene with him and then another less explicit one i believe, once you get to moonrise tower that awful blood obsessed drow araj will try to get you to force him to bite her, tell her no (and initially say astarion is his own person for extra approval). after you do that, at a long rest, astarion will thank you for both affirming he makes his own choices and telling araj to fuck off. he'll get more in to what happened with cazador and sex in general, you'll have the option to tell him you don't have to have sex to be together and that will empower him even more as a character to say no. this is how he'll later feel safe to say no to the drow twins three/foursome offer.
2 Words: Seductive Safety
Astarion allows you to be vulnerable, share secrets, and even make choices he wouldn’t agree with without so much as a judgmental glance. Sure he’ll joke and express sincere hurt if it gets that far, but he allows you to be yourself while also reading your body and tempting you into fun.
Modern men don’t do this. It’s all about expectations, all women are the same, what do you bring to the table nonsense, and non-poetic courtship.
We girls are just tired of the redundancy, the danger, and the hurt. Characters like Astarion ignite a passion that women weren’t allowed to feel a century ago. Indulge ladies! Have fun with these lovely characters and let your sexuality be expressive. Astarion would approve.
This is such a problem with men. They expect you to tailor your personality to fit them. I know women who will only vote based on what their boyfriend is voting for and it is wild.
@@rosesweetcharlotteMen want women to petform hermeneutic labour for them, meanwhile they do nothing for their women
*perform. RUclips won't let me edit my comments🤦♀️)
As a bi trans guy, that seems to be why girls like me. I understand what makes women & fem-presenting people feel safe and do my best to do it, while not expecting anything in return. It’s not that “women don’t like nice guys” it’s that women want to be treated like humans first. I think the second demographic who like Astarion the most behind cis women have to be trans guys, exactly for this reason. He’s flirty and charismatic but respects boundaries, which is the ideal masculinity :>
@ShanieLP "you woman don't understand..." Dude do u hear yourself? You're like literally stepping all over the exact point we're trying to make. The reason why women love him is because he let's go of the toxic masculinity and is just himself. "Feminine or any kind of weak man.." DUDE didn't you even try and watch the video and try to understand what she was saying? Feminine doesn't equal weak. Showing emotions is not weak nor Feminine. Women won't loose interest in you when you show your emotions, the exact opposite actually. Why do you think so many women are in love with Astarion? Because. He. Can. Talk. About. His. Emotions.!!!! Gosh just try and listen for once
Anyone else been in a situation where you witnessed in real life men's reaction towards women expressing attraction towards these characteristics, like the girls in the streams? How viscerally angry, insecure, uncomfortable, disgusted some of them get? And they're always ready to debate you why your own emotions of attraction are wrong lmao, and convince you how you should be attracted to whatever characteristics they tend to have. How unstable and insecure they get, and how they show the exact behavior of everything they project onto women as being "feminine bad qualities" of jelaousy, competitiveness, being overly sensitive, hysterical etc. Whatever the worst woman that acts like this is like, your average dude that never acts like this can be 10 times worse when he's faced with a sliver of the type of behavior they do all the time (talking crudely about other women's boobs, ass, commenting who they would fuck in front of their own gf's sometimes), but if you dare show attraction to this in front of them, even if they're just some random dude you barely know, they combust on the inside.
Oh, you absolutely ate with this one. Can I pin this?
@@swordinthestone313 sure xD
For real! Some days I feel so blessed that I am bi--that I can be attracted to women or other NB like me if men get too scary. I'm NB Bigender (He/She) so dating can be really nerve-racking, especially if you add on being disabled. I'm white and can appear able-bodied and "straight passing" so I don't have to deal with too much a lot of the time, but that fear component is still there.
This was the most unhinged thing I have read all day, that being said as a straight man Astarion is sexy af
As a dude, I never understood the one sided nature of that jealousy. It seems so callous and manipulative.
What watching videos like this have taught me is how common this behaviour is and how close previous versions of me got to these behaviours.
God damn... at least I have more ability to be better for all women in my life
I'm going to watch this again AND TAKE NOTES. I feel like most of us have some kind of trauma or bad experience with men, so when I got to know what astarion was like, I just fell so hard for his character. it's relatable, and YES I love men that are in touch with their feminine traits like he is. *he's masculine, but in a peacock way.*
What is so lovely about Astarion is, unascended, he was written and performed by two real men who get it. A beautiful man written by a beautiful men and performed by another beautiful man. ❤
Reminds us that there are real men. Beautiful men.
Yeah, one of the best comments I read today was on Wolfheart's video about the game awards, and it read something like "How beautiful was Neil Newbon though?" regarding his TGA speech.
I think that hit the nail right on the head. He had what "we women" would consider beautiful when giving that speech.
And I guess Astarion is a bucket load of that, despite all the other immensely messed up things in his backstory.
@@samf.s.7731 Yes. Why film didn't jump on him is beyond me. He is devilishly handsome, charismatic, and a good person. Triple threat in film. They missed out on a wonderful actor.
Men can't be beautiful. It's called being handsome.
@TheMrGazoline Pick up a dictionary.
"Beautiful (adj.): giving pleasure to the senses or to the mind; good-looking
Synonyms: handsome, attractive"
- Oxford English Dictionary
Men can be beautiful. Women can be handsome. The words are SYNONYMS, sir.
This moment brought to you by: the English language.
Cheers! 🙃
@TheMrGazoline certainly not with that attitude
Anyone who loves Astarion should check out the iOS Android visual novel game The Arcana and it's most popular character Julian Devorak. He's like Astarion, if Astarion were a renegade doctor blamed for the death of the local tyrant during a plague.
!!!!!!! AND WAY LESS OF A BAD PERSON LOL Ilya is literally one of my most loved fictional characters, I created a ig fan account for The Arcana because of him that was actually my first exposure to creating content and interacting with followers. I originally was planning on making content on here about The Arcana, years ago. I wouldn't be here on this channel without The Arcana. Asra and Julian are 2 of the coolest characters ever.
Anyway, yeah, Julian is a lot healthier (and becomes even more so over time), and tbh a better person than Astarion, so I absolutely root for him 😂 That game was so fun.
I feel that, when I first played The Arcana, I was initially drawn to Julian because of how his big flaw is essentially his self-hatred.
Something which really resonated with me at the time, I just saw a lot of myself in him and that was really nice.
Also the idea that you're dating a "pirate doctor" is too funny to miss.
Idk if the game mechanics are still the same, but I played it when it first came out and it’s essentially a pay to win type of game. 😭 If you want to unlock all the important romantic scenes, you have to select certain dialogue. The problem was, the dialogue options are locked behind an in game currency that you can either get through a mini game (which honestly doesn’t give you much) or you had to use real money. It was frustrating for me to play because I literally couldn’t romance ANY of the characters because of this! So much important dialogue and lore was locked behind that. So I just dropped the game.
@parkchimmin7913 This is exactly what really started me on posting on YT, because I was determined to make a video on how great of a game it was but how shitty and ridiculous is it to play it, as well as how shitty some of the people were. It is absolutely ludacris how often and how MUCH you have to pay. Way too much money.
When I was doing research for the video about how shitty this was and they were, I found out that they were taking down people's videos for talking about The Arcana almost at all. It's what killed my love for the game and ultimately drove me away, which made me sad since I had a following on my Arcana ig that genuinely liked my stuff.
It's a great game, genuinely, and very inclusive...for the price of all of your money.
@@swordinthestone313 Man, I would love a video on that! It’s such a shame though because it was my first introduction to an queer friendly romance game (it was rare to see. Most of the romance games on the App Store were heterosexual otome dating sims). The art is wonderful and the story is wonderful. I love the characters, but I just didn’t have the means to pay for it. Edit: It’s awful how the company is doing that. No wonder I can barely find any “The Arcana” fan content or critique videos.
My own father was my abuser. in THAT way. My grandfather too, and my whole paternal side of the family. So it was very therapeutic to see Astarion finally hurt his abuser.
My mother neglected me, left me to raise myself when my abuser died, she turned abusive verbally and emotionally and manipulative. I was controlled, I didn't have freedom over how I dressed, what I ate, how I ate, how I talked or my emotions. I had to be a perfect doll for her. Half my teachers as a child were abusive. And so was the maternal side of the family in the ways my mother was. I had no actual family. When I made friends most of them were abusive too just like my parents were and every male friend I had was either overly violent and aggressive and made me feel unsafe over things like video games punching holes in walls raging. Or other male friends the other side we're only after one thing and pretended to be my friends or pressured and tried to force me into things making me unsafe. I have not had positive male experiences in my life except for from my current S.O who acts very much like Astarion.
I cope in the same ways he does, I use flirting and joking as a defense mechanism. I appeal to people and shape myself to try to charm them. I wear a mask to try to get everyone on my side so they won't hurt me so I'll be safe.
I relate to Astarion in a way that his story feels like a fantasy mirror of my life. I personally wish we could romance him without the first s* scene. I wish we could hug him more often. And reassure him more often.
I've played both routes with him. I'm not going to get into my thoughts on Ascended vs Spawn Astarion because thats a whole internet debate.
He feels like home. Safe. Comfort. Warmth. Love. I care about him hes such a well written man.
God that’s so awful, I hope you get some kind of justice
I feel this so much ❤
Astarion is a gift! I hope you are doing well. ❤
Actually, you can romance him without a single s*x in origin Karlach 😊
I love Astarion. My spouse got frustrated because he found Astarion hard to romance and I can do it almost without meaning to, I had to explain that to truly get close to Astarion you first have to give him what he asks and let him feel powerful before you start giving him what he needs.
Larian did an excellent job with Astarion's body language and micro expressions. It wasn't until the second or third playthrough when I focused more on him and noticed them.
I think it's just that your husband was playing a stick in the mud holier than thou paladin? Because to romance Astarion you only need to get his approval and say yes I want to sleep with you. There's nothing more. In act 2 you just have to not be a dick and say you have feelings for him. No brainer.
So it comes all down to approval.
@@dominika3762 He was playing a chaotic rogue. But Astarion doesn't approve of a LOT of things (even though I think he pretty clearly communicates what he really doesn't approve of). Also you can't ask him to sleep with you, you have to goad him into asking you.
@@Radhaun no? When you get him to medium or high approval when you talk to him he will propose it himself. it's hilarious, he asks you while the rest of your companions judge you.
And at the tiefling party it's also not difficult. You don't have to bend over backwards.
Anyway, HE asks you to sleep with you automatically if you have enough approval
@@dominika3762 I mean, it is kinda difficult if you're trying to go for a 100% good run. He almost always disapproves of helping random people for nor reward.
he's out there living our power fantasy. Power fantasy for (most) women isn't mowing down hoards of mobs. It's behaving how we want no matter how we might be perceived by others. It's opening up slowly about our pain to someone who won't hurt us. It's confronting those who hurt and used us with someone Safe by our side.
So true, omg...
Man, reading this, a single teardrop actually came out of my eye like in a damn movie..!
*_Damn you!_*
It's so true, and the pain is so hard to describe that when I think about it, it feels like a pain in my right ring finger and running up through my arm.
I think that if the pain you cause people was to be reflected back onto you, then maybe it wouldn't be so uncomfortable just to exist.
When I think about it now, it makes so much sense why I have more male friends who just have never drank alcohol, because it numbs you.
It sounds really sad when I put it into writing (because it is, really), but women drinking wine being a stereotype makes so much sense, because it lets you momentarily forget about how you're actively being mistreated, you forget about the immediate dangers around you and you just let loose... It numbs you to the harsh reality.
_I don't think I could ever explain this to a man though._
You're so right. Dang!
@@grimmlinn stop. I love when my friends open up to me. I makes me happy that I can be there for them and makes me feel closer to them because I know they trust me and would be there for me as well. Strangers opening up about what hurts them gives both comfort to them and others who have been through/feel similar things.
If you have an issue with people opening up, then maybe don't hang around the comment section for a video that is encouraging discussion about how women relate to a man who's gone through trauma.
If you hate pasta, would you go to an Italian restaurant just so you can complain about other people enjoying their meals?... Please acquire a couple more brain cells and leave the spaces you don't enjoy being in. The only one spreading misery here is you.
THIS IS IT. This is exactly what I've been trying to put into words for months now. Thank you!
All I did was comment on an article on Facebook about how much Baldurs Gate deserves Game of the Year and how I believe Astarions voice actor deserved it as well for being very vulnerable and helping so many people…. Then I got a few replies from men proceeding to say “wow you guys are dog riding this game so much I can’t imagine what it’s doing to the birth rate”…. Like that. THAT SIR. IS WHY WE ARE OBSESSING OVER THIS MAN! Because a lot of “real men” are like you (with some other choice words). We aren’t even allowed to love our fantasy men anymore. I’m tired of it.
It's funny how we can't enjoy fantasy characters or else they'll be jealous, when they can comment on any girl's body and get away with "but you're the only one for me, babe"
One of my exes once dreamed about having sex with Ahri from LoL and told me about it the next day. I don't remember his reaction to it because it's been years, but I sure remember him not feeling bad at all. I took it so badly that I cried for most of the day and then left him a week after. He was even confused as to why I was so upset and tried to downplay my reaction.
@@riholuWhy would he tell you that? He can't really control what he dreams, but he can control what he says to you. Especially if there are other problems in the relationship already
@@riholuif you took it badly then you're doing the same thing insecure men are doing over astarion. you both need therapy.
I'm not even a woman but you definitely made me cry in the end there!
He's an icon in ace community for that one part about not wanting sex in his life. One thing I've noticed is that my straight male friends are drawn to him as well, I discussed this character with them and I was just curious what women find so appealing in him. I was so surprised to hear basically the same arguments (even though though you know, context changes them a bit) they used being said in this video.
He’s involved in the ace community? As someone who’s asexual, I haven’t seen this.
@@drawing_dragons8228 Astarion is very ace-coded, even though that seems to have not been the intention of the writers, and many have noticed this. However, most people's takes on Astarion as ace that I have seen are very shallow and misrepresentative of us aces. They latch onto one single thing--like how he's somewhat sex-repulsed or how you can have a relationship with him that isn't sexual--and go "Oh that makes him ace" and that's not how asexuality works. AceDadAdvice (who has a channel here worth checking out) has a recent YT short about how being ace isn't just one thing or label, but the sum of our parts that make up our individual ace experience, and I think this is a better approach to understanding Astarion as an ace-coded character. I as an ace would define asexuality as experiencing sexual desire, attraction or need outside what is expected from allosexual norms, and that can encompass many aspects of ourselves and not just one specific thing. With Astarion we see multiple things that can be interpreted as ace-coded:
1) Despite his talk of desire and pleasure, his sexual self is not really libidinous, like say, Lae'zel's, but rather he is more interested in experiencing intimacy with another
2) He expresses repulsion towards the expectation of being sexual as well as feelings of disgust after having sex
3) His sexuality is shaped by trauma, which on the ace spectrum is regarded as valid and not dismissed as merely being "broken" or "damaged" and thus something the individual needs to "fix" or "overcome" in order to be valid, as the dominant allosexual--and ableist--culture often sees trauma-impacted sexuality
4) He is very detached when it comes to sex and "performs" sex because that's what expected of him more than actually wanting to have sex or having sexual needs he seeks to fulfill, and consequently questions whether sex is something he wants to do at all
When you combine all these aspects of his character, you can see why Astarion feels ace-coded to people like myself. It's more than him lacking this or not wanting that but what this combination of things says regarding what he genuinely wants and needs from his relationships. Ultimately, his experience of sex and sexuality falls outside of allosexual norms and all of it would be valid as asexual experience if experienced by an IRL person.
@@cj1986x The ironic thing about that:
I recently saw a forum on BG3 discussing the fact that to advance a romance in the game, you almost always have to go the sexual way, while anything else leads to no romance, just friendship. Some people were saying that this was a bit sad, especially since adding an ace experience wouldn't have been too difficult.
And then, some people answered that it wouldn't be realistic that everyone in the party is ace (yeah, let's talk about realism, in D&D, with a group where like everyone is pan :p ) just so "3 people could have it their way", and for them, the best example to give was Astarion, who is "so horny he could never get into an asexual relationship"....
Sorry, what? I haven't even finished act 1 yet and even I know that this is bullshit....
Also, not wanting to spoil anything, but given how the "good" Astarion ending goes (was I convinced to buy the game by watching far too many clips from BG3 on youtube? Partly :p ), I think he is more demisexual than ace ^^
But still, using him as "the reason why there can't be an ace romance" in BG3 was so dumb.....
@@anaiscardot6674 I really do not think the writers had any intention on making Astarion an ace char, but instead they drew, without being very conscious of it, from experiences that we aces often have, and when combined together as a full character, Astarion ends up coming across as ace-coded, despite whatever the writers intended. So that his narrative development with Tav doesn't really fit what some may expect from an ace char is not a surprise because it's just not what the writers aimed for. It is what it is.
Another thing, demisexuality is ace-spectrum (or a-specturm, if one wants to include aromantic and agender experience). I prefer to just say ace as a positive, all-inclusive term for many experiences relating to one's sexuality that fall outside of what society considers norm for allosexuality. We can be here all day speculating about microlabels for ace experiences when really the only person who can tell you what microlabels they feel fit them is that person. So I just rather not bother with it, even with a fictional character, unless there are overly clear traits that point to a specific microlabel or the creators of that fictional character say they fit a specific ace microlabel, which isn't Astarion's case. In my headcanon and my fanfic, Astarion is simply ace with no microlabel and he expresses it in many ways in his relationship with my Tav (who is also ace) especially now that he's free to embrace his own personhood and truly discover himself for once--things I do not think he is given either the time or space to really do within the span of the game itself.
Exactly this. I don't love Astarion because I want to "fix him", I love him because I want to fix me!
what kills me is how considerate he is. One of the best things about the dark urge break up dialogue is going back and watching the scene where the dark urge takes over. in the moment, he plays off the whole thing like a joke. "no worries. you cant kill me even if you tried. im a big strong hunky vampire man who's going to take care of you all night" and from the player's perceptive he has it all handled. hes completely calm and it almost seems like hes been doing this for years. you feel so safe knowing he has everything under control and you believe him when he says that dark urge couldnt kill him even if they tried. the next few mornings hes like "hahaha remember that time you tried to kill me lol" and if you say the right thing he admits he was worried but for the most part he seems fine. but when you try to break up with him over your dark urges he reveals he was TERRIFIED in a way that he had rarely ever been which is saying something considering the awful torturous life he has had under cazador. So he spends the durge incident and the following days laughing it off and generally downplaying how scared he was because he wants to reassure you that everything would be fine and you have enough doubts about your mental health in your head without him adding to it. i love this man.
I guess I saw it less that he was worried about you and more that he went straight back into survival mode, which to him means laying on the charm and acting as non-threatening as possible.
@@rosesweetcharlotte the thing is, he's not afraid of Durge when they're conscious and not being possessed. He views Durge and whatever is possessing them as separate entities. he tells Durge "I don't hate you because this isn't you" and when you're being possessed he tells the urge entity "you're cute, you know. In another life we might have been friends". he's not putting on a show So that Durge wont kill him because he knows Durge wouldn't intentionally harm him. They went out of their way to fight the urges and wake him up in order to avoid hurting him. He's putting on a show so that you feel you're taken care even though he's terrified that it's going to get him killed. if you tell him that you're worried about him the morning after he admits "I'm also worried about me! but I seem to somehow be worried about you more. You give me something to care for, and that's worth the peril."
You know it's a problem when we show online our ways of defending ourselves and men that are insecure will come out of the wood work to tell them about how they would get past the defense easily and how we aren't really that safe.
And not even with the intention of "hey, that may not work in this x case, could you perhaps add y and z to make it safer?" It's not constructive. It's mocking. It's competitive. It's saying, "If I wanted to, I would still be in control" And it's a bizarre and disturbing practice, because at the end of the day, no defense system is flawless so why comment such a thing, you know? Moreover they don't say, "if you did x SOMEONE else could come and do y and still hurt you, you know?" It is quite literally, "I, MYSELF, can counteract your x" And it's like... dude, you are a nasty af bully and you're telling on yourself.
As a man, I love Astarion too. He's such a good character, and his growth as a person somehow feels very real and organic. He's basically always in my party. Neil Newbon did such an amazing job voice acting him and his love for the character really comes through. He mentioned how much he connected to Astarion as a survivor of abuse himself.
He’s a hilarious character too. Even if the player isn’t attracted to him, he’s worth having in your party just because of his ridiculous banter.
I was a compulsive romance and erotica reader and writer on ao3. It was basically all I did day in and out for years. Even when I was dating people, I still longed for the romance of these stories.
And then I met my fiance. From day one he's been the most amazing person, he's been open, vulnerable, supportive, caring. It's amazing, even years into our relationship, I can't help but wonder how the hell did I get so lucky.
Receiving the unconditional honest and open love I read so much about about completely dissipated my interest in reading fanfics. I really don't even open ao3 anymore. It's wild how I just simply got to live an amazing love story, and all the ones I could read were simply worse than reality.
I didn't even know I was trying to fill a romance void in me until I got it filled elsewhere and better
как же хорошо..я рада за вас
I'm so happy for you!
Though he went cruel and harsh reality for 200 years he never was broken in spirit. He stays him. And that is his strength. Astarion is a strong person. Also I love the details like that he can do embroidery, he mend his own clothes. He wants to be understood but not to be pitied. He doesn’t like to be considered weak or yearned to be saved. He has this dignity that Cazador can never take from him.
You know what's funny? Being a loving, caring and open about your feelings person is not fenimine - it's just how we, humans, are. I personally think, that masculinity and femininity is the way you present and act - what's your preference in clothes, how you carry yourself, mannerism and etc. But it has nothing to do with how we show affection. People have different love languages (mostly multiple) and that's the only difference. So we should stop accociating violence and unhealthy assertivness as a masculine trait. It's not masculine - it's abusive.
It was very easy for me to fall in love with his character. At first, I simply loved him because he was so funny and a menace, lol. But as the story progressed, I genuinely started to enjoy him as a character. When you finally confront Cazador, that's when you truly see Astarion's pain. Nothing pained me more than seeing his conversation with Sebastian and how he broke down crying after killing Cazador (if he doesn't ascend, that is).
I have noticed that all of my guy friends that play BG3 kill Astarion when he tries to drink their blood. The only one I know who hasn't is my actual boyfriend who was raised by his mom and nanny. He is considered feminine natured here in the Bible belt because he let's himself get genuinely excited by me and hates confrontation. We work on showing all the love we feel because he struggles with that. After my mom divorced I was scolded for being a tender hearted female and not emotionally dismissive as my bitter mom. Being with him and Astarion in the game has been healing for me.
I think there are definitely a lot of guys who kill him in every playthrough (and brag about it, too, on the internet). Well, they are just not that comfortable with their own emotions and sexuality. A vampire's bite is always portrayed as somewhat sensual, and they overcompensate to feel safe in their masculinity imo. At least that's one of the reasons they do this.
My hubby and I are tabletop roleplayers and we both love Vampire: the masquerade, so we're pretty comfortable with vampire dynamics. He is a masculine man, an INTJ by personality, but he's perfectly comfortable with having feminine qualities and he has a blast playing females. His characters are fucking awesome, too.
He had a bunch of playthroughs in BG, always doing something different, his gnome girl even slept with Astarion cause it made sense for how that particular charater acted and how that playthrough went. I'm so lucky he's cool like that. :) He also thinks it's funny how I have a huge crush on Astarion... but i can't help it, i can never do anything to hurt that motherfucker and I kick the butts of anyone making him feel like he's less than a person. Anyone with an ounce of empathy should see through his defenses and should want to help him heal. I'm not traumatized in any way, we have a perfectly normal, healthy life we're living, but seeing Astarion have no sense of self worth, haunted by the horrors that were inflicted upon him for centuries while acting all nonchalant on the surface... breaks my heart every time. He deserves to be uplifted by Tav.
Thing is, they don't even have to kill him to not get bitten 💀 all they have to do is just refuse and he'll never touch them, no need to go that far
Omg same. Being romantic, delicate and emotionally open as I've always been, was seen as being something bad, immature and "kitchig" in my family and more often than not, even made fun of, especially because I always expressed a desire to meet "the one true love". I was being shamed for that to the point when now my husband or someone else wants to show me affection by romantic gestures I don’t know how to react and mostly have flight response to that.
@@Venvaneless same, except in my family, typically our emotions aren't displayed through talking, they're done through favours and gifts, or all out fights. Whenever my dad wanted to apologize, he'd buy us food or give us gifts. This resulted in me having intense horror and disgust around receiving gifts for a long, long time, because I saw them as being indebted to the person who gave them. And I didn't understand how it was possible to disagree with someone without fighting with them, and if I ever cried in a fight that was my weakness. I had to do a lot of healing to accept people's kindness.
they seek excuses for violence like claiming they can hit women if she 'starts' on them @@ettaetta439
Astarion reminds me very much my male friend, who is very alieneted by our community (Polish larp scene), because he's against casual s*x and very relationship-oriented while extremly good-looking. You almost can read the "if i cannot f*ck you, then f*ck you" on peoples foreheads around him.
As a guy, this had been something I've been wondering about since game release. I think there is an interesting parallel between attraction in Astarion's feminine qualities and a traumatic sexual experience predominantly shared by women to attraction in Lae'zel's masculine qualities and a shared experience of dealing with the expectation to be physically aggressive and violent while also not knowing how to be emotionally vulnerable. I'd wager this was a very deliberate choice by Larian's writers
Honestly the men you’re able to romance in BG3 have all been healing to me in a sense. Gale’s sweet awkward pining for you, him being devoted and unafraid to tell you he loves you. Wyll’s slow burn romance where you don’t need to rush anything, you can just _be_ and take it one day at a time (something I really appreciate as an ace). Halsin’s openness about his past relationships and the way he prioritizes consent of all parties if you wish to enter into a poly relationship♥️ And of course Astarion, who I’ve come to care for even when he has his mean streak XD
Astarion's story mirrors my own in many ways.
My parents, while well-meaning, didn't really allow me much in terms of making my own choices. They were the very definition of helicopter parents. I have no doubt that they wanted what's best for me, but they often didn't know what was best for me. And by not allowing me to stumble and make mistakes while I was young, they've simply delayed that stumbling stage until now, where I don't have anything to fall back on if I miscalculate the pros and cons. I don't think I'd be in nearly as big of a hole as I am now if they'd allowed me the opportunity to stumble when I was young.
I wish that was the only way I could relate to Astarion, but it's not. My first boyfriend was...not great. He never respected the boundaries I tried to set, and his apologies were always fake af. It got to the point where I was afraid to say no. Afraid to call him out. And as soon as I worked up the courage to break up with him, I still had to do it over text because I was afraid of what he'd do to me if I did it in person. I spent the next three years, almost, looking over my shoulder. Whenever I went to church I'd have to find out exactly where he was sitting so that I could ensure I was sitting as far away from him as possible. If I was anywhere besides my own home, I was constantly looking around to make sure he wasn't following me. Every job I applied for I first had to make sure he didn't work there. And, of course, he'd haunt my nightmares.
I've been lucky enough to have had another boyfriend since then who treated me right. The only reason why we broke up is because we both realized our lives were going in different directions. He loved me too much to expect me to give up my dreams, I loved him too much to expect that of him as well. But literally, he was everything you could ever want in a boyfriend. If I asked to slow down, he'd slow down. If I said I wasn't ready for something yet, he'd respect that. If I was having a panic attack, he'd literally drop everything to help me through it. I hope I'll be able to find another out there who will treat me with that same level of kindness. But even more than that, I hope he finds someone else who will treat him right, and whose goals are more compatible with his. Men like him are few and far between where I live, and I hope whoever he ends up with will recognize that, and will treat him with respect and kindness.
For me, a dude, Astarion appeal is his willingness to fight for his freedom, his right as living being back, i also feel his pain, there isn’t anything that you can do to undone the 200 years old pure suffering under Cazador, but you can help freeing him from his binding, he isn’t a slave anymore, but he need your help to realize that and he’s funny tho
I think people love Astarion because he is well written character with a difficult fate. He is not just evil or good, he is pure chaos, very charismatic and it’s easy to sympathize with him. Character development is huge from Act 1 to Act 3, which is even more plays with players emotions. You can see how Astarion can handle with his terrible past and tries to take his destiny in HIS hands. He wants to destroy the chains and as Tav you just want to help him with it. Astarion’s writer made deep character that players should support him with all their heart, because it’s impossible to refuse such sweet bun. I want him to be free and happy with my Tav until they find a cure. I want Astarion to walk at sun with his beloved🥲
Sorry for bad English, I tried my best.
this! You don't have to experience that trauma to sympathize with him, he's just a great character with well-written story and growth.
I’m literally crying while you’re explaining this… I couldn’t put my finger as to why I love this man so much. I just did. But I played this around my boyfriend and he kept judging me and making jokes saying I only like him because he’s a “bad boy” and I liked twilight as a teenager and how ALL the woman that faun over Astarion are “choosing wrong” because we “always” go for the bad boy. And then when we got to the root of Astarions character and backstory and I was crying at the sweet moments you can have with him… my boyfriend just basically rolled his eyes. I felt guilty for loving this fictional man. But you just put into words everything I was attracted to and didn’t even realize it. It’s like it clicked. I am a victim of SA and narcissistic and abusive exes… and I couldn’t figure out why I felt so safe with this attractive box of pixels. Honestly, thank you for making this. ❤
I am so glad I could help you, sweetheart, and I hope that you're doing well now. But it seems like you deserve WAY better than the person you have in your life right now. It is immensely inappropriate and disrespectful to act in such a way when someone is feeling so vulnerable and realizing something like that. I hope you find people who respect and love you for who you are most in the future 💖
What swordinthestone said, at the literal bare minimum partners shouldn’t be condescending to their partners’ interests in a non joking manner, ESPECIALLY when they’re vulnerable. Maybe talk to your bf abt this
I've always been very communicating about my trauma's and feelings as a guy.
Raised by a single mother and only learning how to talk about stuff through mom and therapy and friends.
I get mocked and sidestepped regularly for not being manly enough and being open about my feelings. "men should be stoic and cool".
So guess what happened when i told the ex why i loved her, wrote her poems, sang her songs?
I got laughed at for it, told i wasn't manly enough, that men aren't supposed to talk about their issues.
Getting told by a video that what i did is desireable in theory but having experienced being shunned in experience...
It hurts me.
Hey dude, sometimes more times than we’d all really want you’ll give people your all and present you as you are with all the things that make you special only for people to not appreciate it. Do not let these people snuff out your light, they are simply undeserving of it. There’s plenty of people who wish for people to write them poems and make them mixtapes, you just got to find them and do not loose what makes you special.
*Some people don't fit together.*
That's just the cold hard truth.
If you were to stop being yourself, what sort of partner do you think you will attract, versus being yourself?
Is it not better to spend more time to find someone right, than to find someone to just fill the space momentarily?
*Be honest with yourself now.*
When I decided I was going to be single in my 20's and just live unapologetically as myself, that's when I unintentionally met someone who gives me the emotional safety I have always been scared of trying, because honestly I'm afraid to get lost in someone else and hurt myself (It's hard for me to admit).
To someone else, he'd be a terrible match, but to me, he's something different.
He's an introvert who loves to read fantasy, cuddling, RTS and board games, doesn't drink, isn't a big fan of parties, refuses to dance, and is a creature of habit.
He's nothing like a stereotypical "macho man", and it would be terrible if he was anyway.
At first, he was a bit like Astarion TBH (Though more stoic than flamboyant).
He told me that he had accepted that he would be alone forever, because he genuinely didn't believe anyone would ever like him, *_and he meant it._*
He had barely held anyone's hand when I met him, and at first he was a bit sceptical of physical contact, but now he's basically glued to my side when we're together because he's so affectionate.
He was so shocked by the compliments I gave on his physical appearance, that at first he was physically unable to reply.
Even though he isn't as charming as Astarion, his earnestness has gotten to me.
He often just looks at me, lovingly, and I am not used to the pure earnest tenderness of someone who previously wrote romance off all together, but now let's me have all of it.
I have never felt this way before with anyone, but I could've settled for people who would've never emotionally satisfied me half as much, and missed out on his piercing eyes.
All this to say that you can't let your previous relationship hold you back, because what one person doesn't want, someone else will *_LOVE!_*
I obviously found someone who isn't traditionally masculine, and I love it. The emotional intensity is actually better than sex.
It’s the other person then, not you. I just wanna say as a woman my husband wrote me songs early in our relationship and it made me so happy. I could really see his feelings. It’s definitely a good quality, unfortunately some women also don’t know how to be in tune with their emotions and can fall into society’s stereotypes about it
The difference beetwen fantasy and reality.
They want an “Astarion” but only in fantasy land (and if he is beautiful).
Omg I’m so sorry she treated you like that. She’s trash. You deserve better 🫂
this is so well said. I knew there was something special about him. I just couldn’t put my finger on what drew him to me so deeply. He’s truly a beautiful beautiful character. I’m so glad Neil was able to make him feel so real
Yes omg!! My guy friends who also played this game were making fun of me for getting so obsessed with Astarion, especially given that he’s not my usual “type” at all. I realised pretty quickly that they all had a pretty surface level understanding of him as a character.
Tbh he’s quickly become one of my top two all time favourite video game romances alongside Garrus from Mass Effect
Omg same! Almost all of my guy friends (straight) either hate him or kill him off early.
bro has a good taste
@@hugzpls luckily my brother who is also playing it likes him, but he's goth and thinks vampires are really cool in general ahaha
Garrus is best! Turirans are so hot!
Funny you mention Mass Effect. For me Astarion and Zevran, from Dragon Age: Origins (made by the same company that did Mass Effect) are some of my favorite men ❤ I also really love Cole from DA:Inquisition in a more platonic way. Ironically, aside from all 3 dudes being rogues and pro killers, they all have a depth, realness and kindness to them that I adore and that has inspired me to be a better person throughout the years. Literally, these fictional characters have changed me for the better over time, and I would not be the person that I am today had I not met them.
Astarion - Star ⭐ We love him❤
I will not lie, he's what made me get Baldur's Gate 3. And I will never regret that ever. This fictional man has made me feel everything and I wear my Astarion fangirl badge with honor!
Thank you for this video! I loved it 😍
Same lol, at first I didn't get the hype but I was slowly converted through the fanart
He tried to kill me, tried to drink my blood without permission, and i watched a vid where he kills you.
So i stked him.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 lol dude he only kills you if you first let him drink your blood, then don't stop him at all from draining you dry. All you have to do is push him off. Even in the first meeting, he reacted reasonably considering you were a possible threat to him and immediately stopped his assassination attempt the moment he realized you weren't a threat. But it's fine if you dislike him or wanted to stake him in general, especially since he did attempt to drink Tav's blood w/o their consent in the first place.
Astarion's story is so interesting and relateable to me because he's a male character given the specific kind of backstory trauma only female characters tend to be given. It's not at all uncommon for women to agree to or even initiate sex they don't want with someone they don't trust or feel safe with as sort of self-defense ("if i do this, then I won't get yelled at or worse") and experience feelings of shame and disgust and even dissociate to cope with it. Hells, I've been there. I've been in a healthy relationship for 10 years now and it still all came back to me, playing this game and learning more as Astarion's backstory is revealed. I haven't had flashbacks for years, but it was oddly cathartic to have the pretty vampire elf dredge up those memories and then give me a chance to confront them now that I'm older and wiser and in a safe place. In a way, helping him is a sort of wish-fulfilment fantasy of wanting to help younger me. He's charming and beautiful and funny and written in a way that also makes me want to help him heal.
It's difficult to articulate but I feel like another aspect of his appeal to women specifically is that he is totally lacking (as a Spawn) entitlement towards the player character that is so frequently thrown at women IRL. If you manage to get into a love triangle with other members of the party and him, Astarion assumes by default that he is the losing leg of the triangle and seems genuinely surprised and confused if you tell him that you're choosing him over them. As a Spawn, he never assumes he is owed the Player's affections, never takes them for granted, nor demands them. To him, the very act of BEING LOVED is a gift and a miracle in of itself, and because of that, he lacks that frightening, violent entitlement that so many women have faced from some of the men in their lives. It's comforting that he not only does not demand the player's love, but is so incredibly grateful that they ever decided to love him at all, because it means he fundamentally respects their autonomy and their personhood.
(This is why I refuse to Ascend him; he loses this aspect [among others] of his character and it's a terrible loss imo. I've seen many say they ascended him to make him feel safe and let him walk in the sun and then hated the changes in his personality, and I just can't do it. I'd feel like I'd killed him along with those 7000 other people.)
I couldn't put my finger on why I liked him so much and you completely nailed it! He just gets what it's like to be hurt and he's so nice to my character. Also do you have the sources for the videos you showed? I feel like I might enjoy watching some of those live streams but can't find it on my own.
I know the dark haired girl with glasses and infectious laugh is peach tree gaming
Sorry it took me a second. In order: Lexy, MegMage, Dorklina, AGirlAndAGame, Elina, EPKongroo
@@swordinthestone313 Thanks!
Really depends on what type of woman and her personal tastes. I'm a 33 y.o male Astarion fan. At least here in Bible Belt USA, it's not uncommon for a woman to become disinterested in you when you open up emotionally or show vulnerability. Since it detracts from your masculinity in their eyes. It's been refreshing to be able to be in relationships where this is not the case, but it's an unfortunate reality in other cases. It's not surprising to me either that Astarion is my favorite romance partner in this game!
You have good taste : )
Because he's not only a well written character, not only a well written pretty character, not only a well written abuse victim (which is about as rare as fidning an actual needle in some random haystack), not only still fun to be around, no, to top it all off he also has god tier voice acting.
Oh my goodness, you hit the nail on the head with this one. I didn't even realize some of this - the poeticism! The flattery. The peak flirtation. But also his vulnerability. He sets me on FIRE, y'all.
Great video! Really encapsulates why women and queer people are so drawn to him. I think another angle on why Astarion is so beloved by people is the lack of sexual pressure/aggression. Yes in the beginning when he is trying to seduce you he needs you to fall for it and have the two of you have sex. But once he falls in love with you and comes clean, he will ask to put a pause on intimacy. While he figures out how to have a relationship without sex.
For a lot of women, I feel we constantly feel the pressure of performing and offering sex to male partners all the time. Even when we don't want to/feel like it. I think a lot of people sick of sexual pressure, are low sex-drive or asexual appreciate Astarion's romance a lot for that reason. To have a relationship were there isn't a massive amount of pressure on sex all the time. To have sex be a special intimate thing instead of just pure lust or a performance/exchange(Which in Astarion's cause is something he had to deal with).
Does anyone else get what I mean and feel this way?
I tried to have a romance with him. I've had relationships with men in the past who abused me mentally and Astarion had the same vibe from the start. Seduction, lovebombing, manipulation,distrust and my mind was screaming - walking red flag. I understand that he is traumatized and I went through his personal quest with him and finally understood his behavior. He became my friend, but nothing more. Like, Astarion, you don't need a relationship, you need a therapist and healing.
Sounds about right. I initially wanted to try his romance mostly because I didn’t understand quite why people liked him so much. It was basically an investigation. For reference, I’m a straight girl and I had the same thing, my mind screaming big no-no major red flag... hence I didn’t really get enough approval and failed at the party (he called me disgusting even tho I was nice to him- prob bc I was mostly good morally and never got a chance to flirt with him lmfao). Honestly I kinda hated him for a majority of my coop play through because he just seemed so ridiculously manipulative. Despite that I had him with me the entire game, holding out thinking he’ll get better. It sucked bc I genuinely found it hard to tell when he was being vulnerable at times (like is he still just trying to use me? I’m a skeptic and need to know I can trust someone) but we became good friends in the end. Whilst playing the game I never quite got the appeal until maybe act 3 which is sad but I see more now after hearing other’s experiences and watching extra scenes I didn’t get (plus he can def be pretty funny and I love how flamboyant is he lol). ‘Kinda felt like I missed out on some context simply bc I failed his romance which is pretty shitty ngl.
You either love Astarion or he grosses you out. Both responses are perfectly valid. We even see this in game, where the companions who have to deal him are rather grossed out by him a lot of the time.
The thing is, he is a walking red flag. He is not a healthy man expressing himself, but a scared, frightened slave who is trying to navigate a harsh unfamiliar world the only way he knows how. And that can be very, very uncomfortable to watch
Yeah I have mixed feelings about him. I enjoy his route but there are a lot of grey areas that are sus and could be difficult to deal with. I think his arc is so well written that a lot of people defend him but it’s truly just up to interpretation. He’s a murderous selfish creep or he’s a misunderstood victim in touch with his feelings. That’s the beauty of bg3 I guess, always a different experience😆
I totally agree. I see the attraction but as someone who has been through abuse and done the work, this guy is a big no no. Too many of his own demons to work through even though I think his red flags are learned behaviours rather than him being inherently bad. It doesn't matter. Tbf really want to be his friend though (and I wish we could hug him as friends). But I won't be dating him. I mean, I know it's just a game so I could xD but I think its good practice for real life to always pursue healthy options and maintain healthy boundaries.
This is a reason I find the obsession fascinating. It feels like two con people trying to “win” the other. And it feels icky
Never thought I'd be so into a flamboyant man in that kind of way, but somehow Astarion does it for me. I've been fangirling over him for weeks now because of RUclips, and now I'm fangirling over Neil Newbon, too. 🥰
Most of the time when I see people hate Astarion, it's cishet men... And I just know it's insecurity, homophobia and misogyny behind it. The number of times I've seen "horny vampire gets the stake" comments is fucking baffling! If Shadowheart acted like Astarion I'm absolutely certain non of them would have a problem with it, because it's a woman acting that way towards them and not a man. If they actually got to know him they'd know he's literally not a horny vampire, he's just a vampire and he's uncomfortable with even being PERCEIVED as a sexual being which for me is so painfully relatable. The trauma of just having a body that seemingly isn't allowed to exist without being a sex object is fucking terrifying
This. When Astarion said, "I don't want you to think of me in terms of sex. I don't know if I want anyone to", I felt it in my soul.
@@furballrage595 it truly punched me in the gut like "ayooooo bitch here's some new ways to think about your trauma and cry :))))" in the most loving way possible
This was absolutely interesting. I grew up on romance novels when I was child because those were the books that my mother had in her library. Danielle Steele in particular. Its interesting to note that the men portrayed in these books and the male characters women find appealing share some of the same traits with Astarion. Would you say that the Lucifer character in the TV show or Russell Brand ( keeping in mind the recent sexual scandals) are good examples? Great work.
That is a very sweet image of you growing up with your mothers romance novels, thank you for sharing ❤️
I know nothing about Lucifer other than how he looks but growing up I saw a lot of love for Russell because of how effeminate and passionate and seemingly "caring" he was, mixed with his handsome and pretty looks. I've been seeing many women devastated by the recent news because of this and their attraction to him throughout the years, due to him feeling "different" from other men.
I'm glad you liked the video ❤️
@@swordinthestone313 The comments have really humbled me. A lot of the stories are very intense and I can understand now why people really like Asterion. The fact that he can help people find healing and meaning means that he is such a great character.
Thank you so much for your video. It was incredibly enlightening.
Thank you for this video, I feel like it's hard for me to explain why I love him so much and why I was so attached to him the first time I played the game years ago. I feel like you put a lot of what I was feeling into words, it was all so well put.
I so desperately relate to the feeling of being tainted. My girlfriend and I both have deep running sexual trauma, and despite now both being safe and loved and wanting to show that love for each other through desire and sex, our bodies are almost entirely unable to, no matter how much mentally you may want to express it. Astarion has literally done more for my healing journey than some counsellors ever did. I'll love and protect this boy til the end ❤
Yes - thank you. I couldn't put my finger on it but I really love his character for all the reasons you put out there. I keep trying to type out something more profound than this, but I keep erasing it because I'm embarrassed or crying about it. No notes. Thank you.
I love this video, because it describes everything so beautifully.
I went through emotional abuse for almost 7years
ok, a question for everyone who thinks you like Astarion because he can't abuse you: does Wyll feel threatening to you?
cause you know, he is the sweetest guy, gentleman, romantic, respectful and selfless all the way. But somehow, and I'm sure you'd agree, he is not a fan's favorite by far. I see a simple answer - he, his character, his story are not that interesting. Not the "every woman's biggest fear is to be abused and therefore they always go for the safest choice" bs. I'm telling that as a bi woman (does this count as being oppressed enough to have a right to say in the matter?).
Astarion is just a great, both fun and dramatic character and he has suffered from something that would make sympathize everyone, who has a heart. Yes, that something was losing all his old life and becoming a slave, having to be sexually exploited, being forced to seduce and kill. Yes, that's abuse, sexual included, but I doubt that only women or queers would find this tragic.
Astarion is also extremely hot and flirty, which makes a lot of people feel wooed by the attention from him.
So no, I refuse to agree with you on the stance that people who adore Astarion are inherently driven by the fact that they are dreadful of abuse and think he can't hurt them sexually. I'm not even 100% sure if he can or cannot, but if not for sex, he certainly can be dangerous if his life is endangered (once again, how many did he hurt while being a slave? could he suck you dry one night and have no regrets after?). He is no more a safe option as any other BG3 guys are, that's how I feel for this matter. But he has a great character, "great" as not "good", but as one that is captivating. He is hot, charming, eloquent, smart, direct, sarcastic. It is fun. And his story makes you feel sympathy for him, but again, you don't have to suffer from abuse to feel for others. He is a great, well-written character, that's why people love him.
And I, as a woman, feel kinda offended by a presumption that every one of us is inherently a victim by men, society. By no means I deny the shit and mistreatment that has happened to many women throughout human history, but it does not dictate my life and it's not something that is constantly on my mind. It is not my trauma and I refuse to be considered as a victim.
Came to understand a character's appeal, left with a better understanding of romance as a genre. Good work
Girl.. This man just has me floored. He is perfect. I have never been this genuinely sad that a fictional is well.. fictional lol
Holy sht. I was talking to my friends yesterday and was completly stuck on WHY do most woman ( me myself) go for fantasies. Now I found ya video and ya set my mind at ease now. Thank you for making a great explaintion aswell showing parts of when Astarion talks.
I am a woman and I think this video completely misses the mark. Starting off this video by saying that women like romance because we are easily victimized is just blatantly untrue. Women like romance the same way men like superheroes or action movies, it is a fantasy. That fantasy can bring comfort, but I don't think most women would be excited to meet someone like Astarion in real life. From what I have seen, Astarion tries to kill you on multiple occasions and gets upset when you do good acts. By your logic, this would make him one of the bad men. Saying that though, would be denying anyone the ability to enjoy a fictional character. In conclusion, it is just a fantasy for the sake of fun and enjoyment, nothing more.
A wonderful overview of Astarion's romance and why so many people have fallen in love with it. I find I often feel embarrassed or ashamed escaping into fantasy romances, so it is reassuring to see someone so clearly explain why we do. Life is difficult, and sometimes imagination is our only comfort.
The thing about Astarion, for me, is that I'm not the kind of person who subscribes to the idea that I can change anyone IRL. That sounds ridiculous and self-important tbh. But the more I get to know Astarion's character, see all of his flaws and shining points, I can't help but think, "Oh. Oh, you're so broken. I want to fix you. I want to make you happy. Your happiness is now more important to me than this game's main story." I hate myself for even thinking that because who the eff am I to have such an influence over another person? But I did feel that. For a fictional character in a video game. Damn Larian for their writings and also Neil Newbon for that fricking voice!
I don’t think you should feel guilty about feeling sympathy for and wanting the best for someone, and wanting to try and help with that (especially when it’s a fictional person 😆)
I've been thinking about this for a while. Thank you for putting together such an eloquent summary of why so many people (including myself) love Astarion so much. The writers and Neil did an amazing job creating him. I hope to see many more impactful and relatable characters in the future.
Astarion's writer is a dude just so you know , smartly written and targeted towards a very very specific audience and obviously it's worked
I just realized how safe all the men are in this game.
Astarion is flamboyant. Gale is nerdy. Wyll's a theatre kid, and Halsin loves ducks.
None of them are hypermasculine and are very emotionally open and communicative.
Dont forget Minsc! The best himbo. But really he's so good natured and never treated women differently from men.
It's why i hated witcher 3 because it came off as an incel's wet dream. Well, teenage boy's wet dream. Considering how teens are usually angsty, lack self-awareness, and selfish though there's no difference. 🤪
This makes so much sense, like I was talking to my brother in law about bg3 and when I told him I was romanticizing Astarion he was so confused in why I would like him and I had a hard time explaining exactly why but this is it. Granted he went with laezel’s route so really he cant judge my choices lol
I love how baldur's gate 3 has become "astarion dating sim"
A man, Adam Smith, was the lead writer on Baldur's Gate3, while a man, Swen Vincke, directed the actors, and a man, Neil Newbon, breathed life into Astraion.
Im a guy, well Im bi and Astarion has melted my heart, body and mind in all 2 of my playthroughs. I've both cried and loved him with the best of my Tav could offer. One is giving in through his whims and the other is fixing him and curing him of his traumas by "doing a certain thing" *I dont wanna spoil for those who haven't seen it*
but yeah, I've fallen head over heels for him with his words, actions and overall character.
This is probably the best video on the Internet wow thank you for making this video
“Astarion disapproves. I’m reloading”ME LITERALLY ME EVERY TIME
I'll just say as a gay man myself, I don't think all gay men would love someone like Astarion. I would say it's 50/50.
As gay man who has had unwanted sexual advances by women because I’m a little sassy and flamboyant the obsession for him creeps me out. It’s also worth noting most of the woman are not BIPOC.
@@josherz7 Yeaaah, I'm queer and nonbinary and the fixation by cishet women on Astarion is often uncomfortable for me to witness. There is a LOT not being talked about, like how cishet, mostly white women can see queer men as "safe" for them specifically, with little regard to howthey should respect the experiences and trauma of queer men (and any queer person) as uniquely their own and not something that is just an analogy for cishet people's experience, and how BG3 and its fandom leans into that with Astarion. Astarion on his own is an astonishingly deep queer character, the writers and VA drew from queer experiences to create him, and I wish he could be a way to show what we queer people experience--such as the pressure to perform certain roles for cishet people, like being the "safe" sassy, fun gay male friend or someone to satisfy some sexual fetish for them--so it hurts to see cishet people take him and center themselves in his story. But that's what cishet culture always does.
@@cj1986xis it bad to be seen as a safe friend for someone? Though i get what you're saying about how many women[especially cishet) sometimes treat gay men as their pets. I think this creator did a good job speaking on how obviously Astarion is a great character for Queer and homosexual folks as well....
This is going to insult so many people: I feel like those who journey through his romance, who hear everything he's gone through, about his feelings regarding Cazador and the means his former master hurt him- If these players let him ascend because "it's what he deserves", the player themselves are admitting that their intention was to always objectify him to fulfill their personal fantasies.
I came to this conclusion after observing the many rebuttals from players who compare Ascended Astarion to a BDSM romance, or that they themselves enjoy being degraded. At the end of the day, his Ascension wasn't entirely for Astarion's benefit, it was for the player to resume some sexual fantasy: "A possessive and obsessed power hungry, controlling full and all powerful Vampire who wants to bend the player at will, and is willing to turn them into a Spawn to forever be enslaved by him", which is literally everything he's TRYING TO GET AWAY FROM.
It's why Larian, Stephen, and Neil, have made it very clear that Ascending him is the purely evil route.
It's not evil because he ascends, it's not evil because he becomes Cazador 2.0, it's not only evil because he loses his soul- it's evil because it only goes to prove that the player themselves never truly acknowledged his trauma, they only called him sexually, to fulfill their own Vampire RP kink.
The point of Astarion is to lead players through a very intimate journey of healing from sexual and physical abuse. It's meant to be educational for some and therapeutic to others.
Only those who can't relate or don't care to aid someone's journey through this would choose to ascend him because A) They don't entirely care B) They don't personally understand and assume the abused becoming the abuser is the better outcome and C) Do understand but assume that having a soulless narcissistic possessive abuser is far more attractive than who Asterion shows himself to truly be.
Astarion has many layers to his personality. Once he familiarizes himself with Tav, he starts to show his true (dare I say) goofy self. Behind the layers of trauma and seduction, he has a humorous, jovial side to him. No longer is he hiding behind an armor constructed of alluring charm, he's him.
I sometimes think that the only reason those who ascend him didn't choose the "it could be enjoyable with me" line when he confesses his feelings in Act2, is because he drags them for being inconsiderate and immediately drops their romance line (as he should).
I'm not saying all who ascend him think along these lines, because there are some who do ascend him only to see that playthrough.
I'm only referring to the majority who ascend him to get their own desires from his storyline by objectifying him as the "sexy scary possessive Vampire Lord", which is, yuck.
Before I wrap this up, I also want to add that Ascended Astarion IS NOT a true representation of BDSM, as those who openly shit on 50 Shades of Gray have made it very clear when it comes to true depictions vs the bullshit written by someone who doesn't know what they're talking about.
In this case, those who objectify and ascend him for their own sexual pleasures are the latter.
When you see it this way, we can all understand why Neil rolled his eyes and deadpanned at the viewer who called themselves an Ascended Apologist during one of his streams.
I'll probably make a vid on this now 😂 . Your video has helped me see things in this regard, as my videos in TikTok usually approach this from Astarion's perspective regarding his personality because of his experiences, vs the nature of his person and why he's so liked based on what he presents to others.
Well done video!
Honestly well put. It goes to show why media literacy is so important.
OMG. JUST. YES! I couldn’t have put it better myself!
Some of his comments also made me realize how I should change how I look at things. Paraphrasing one of them, Astarion makes a comment on something along the lines of why he should be nice/care when the strong never saved him when he was in a horrific situation. I thought of that way for so long, thinking why I should help others in those similar when no one dared to even bat an eye when I was going through ab*se. Recent years I have been changing that way of thinking, and hearing him say that just gave me an 'oh crap' moment. Even now I can't seem to escape from the 'not so great' living situations. But I'd rather do whatever I can to help others and not have them go through what I went through. Even if it means making matters worse in my situation.
I think helping others is good and fine, but you have to help yourself first. And I think his storyline is a good lesson in that. Astarion really can't help anyone until he is able to help himself and get himself out of a terrible situation.
@@rosesweetcharlotte yeah, that was one of the parts that stood out to me. I hope I'll eventually understand that at some point.
He, his story and with game plot story are so well-written, and also VA performance made a perfect combination and result.
I am quite late to the Astarion party and in the beginn I never understood why everyone is so in love with this digital Vampire… until reels and shorts of his interactions with Tav and general cutscenes started popping up in my feed. Man I fell hard and deep. My bf doesn’t understand why I love this character so much, because he doesn’t realize that this character shares trauma with me and my Tav helping Astarion is also kinda healing for me. My own digital character showing love and kindness to another digital character who went through similar trauma and is still loveable somehow makes me happy. As if it is myself telling the hurt, traumatized version of myself „see, you are just as deserving of love as this pixel man.“ Idk, it’s weirdly therapeutic. Of course he is also charming, good with words and observant as hell which makes me feel double safe. Larian Studios really created a character which makes me feel seem, safe and helps me cope somehow. Bravo to everyone who worked on this amazing game and my deepest admiration to all the Astarion writers and also Neil Newbon who brought this character to life, like noone else could have ever done.
I have very similar trauma as him. I thought I didn’t deserve love because of what happened to me and because of the thoughts that were put into me by other people. Proving to Astarion that he is worthy of love was actually very healing to me, and my boyfriend helped me romance him hahahah
getting to experience Astarion’s story along with him truly healed something deep inside of me. something I didn’t know was still there and hurting. I couldn’t even cry during some scenes becaue, like he said himself, I just felt numb. and I know he would understand that and give me a hug and sit with me quietly as long as I needed. thank you Larian and Neil Newbon for giving me and many others this safety and healing through him.
the worst he can say is no...
him: "its not you, its me. i have standards"
The way I clicked on this and didn't expect the best explanation whatsoever- And not just that you are absolutely stunning! You look just like my Tav, its so ironic!! 🥰🥰
Omg there's no way I look like your Tav, if I don't see them I will literally perish 😭
I find it interesting that Astarion is perceived as being safe because he is effeminate, but he's actually the only male character in the party who will attack you and violate your consent. When you first meet him he holds you down with a knife to your throat. While you're sleep he will attempt to bite you without your consent. if you then let him do it he will literally kill you in the act if you can't convince him not to, then treat it as if it was no big deal when you get resurrected. Astarion has grown on me a lot, but as far I've seen he is genuinely the least safe member in the entire party and at the start genuinely doesn't care of he hurts you. Not even Lae'zel is so openly willing to hurt you as Astarion.
EXACTLY
I personally think women are drawn to him because he's dangerous. We just don't want to admit it.
The first thing that I noticed about myself because of Astarion was how I behave, the jokes, and the joy in seeing misery in others, the body behavior (the grand gestures and all that), overall his entire personality, I am A LOT like that, but then when I got deeper into his trauma, I realised that I, how should I put this, "put aside" my trauma and just moved on, like it was normal, while having all the sh*t buried deep inside. And believe or not, Astarion brought all of that to the surface and it fucked with me for a while, but then I talked about my crap to a friend and it was so liberating? But also not really?? But seeing Astarion healing from everything it's so cathartic to me, brings me SUCH JOY. I will protect him always, Cazador is dying, he doesn't stand a chance
"meeting" Astarion literally made me go through therapy cause I suddenly understood that I see myself in him, see my own trauma which i denyed for years. This game, this character have done for my mental health more than people i actually know. So yes he's still hot and sexy vampire but i totally get why so many people so into him - he's alive and he makes us better
I’m happy for you! Astarion is a deeply beautiful character
You got it absolutely right! My husband shares a lot of the same traits because he was sexually abused when he was younger and in a very toxic relationship. I had a very manipulative and abusive ex myself, and my husband is amazing when it comes to working with my traumas.
[First of all this is a personal perspective, and I expect this to get slammed.]
Honestly, I never went with Astarion, I feel he needs a supporting FRIEND rather than a lover due to his trauma and abuse; I was willing to be a needed friend for him.
As a person who suffered through CPTSD due to being abused and manipulated by the people I had to know my whole life - someone to love in a romantic way was not healthy for me at the time; I needed a friend or a best friend to support me as I grew out of being so distrustful of everyone around me. If I had a partner, we are MORE likely not only to hurt them but ourselves as well, as stated in the video, Astarion is scared of falling into being manipulated again, and being romantic with him WONT help him in the end, because even with a “good ending” Astarion, he’s going to be co-dependent, and that isn’t healthy for him as a person trying to develop into a WHOLE person. (I’ve been there.)
I remember just losing my entire self for years, I didn’t know who I was even through adulthood; empty with nothing but fear and negativity for the world, believing that I was worth nothing more than the scraps I got.
Astarion SHOULDN’T be working on himself for Tav, but for himself because again, he will most certainly remain co-dependent if he stays the path of only pleasing Tav. Should he grow into his own, then he can decide to look into a romantic relationship. (This of course being on a view, because after all it is a game, and not a real person.)
OMG THIS!!!
I had a similar experience with him. I was going to romance him first but failed. I was a bit frustrated with this because I didn't want to be evil but just continued with the story anyway. Then act 2 happened and I had the equivalent of an anime arc with him by becoming one of his best friends. Though I do head cannon Astarion and my Tav playfully picking on each other every now and then because he kinda did that in act 1
I feel this is much more true for Gale than for Astarion. With Spawn-Astartion the conclusion of his romance felt like being in a relationship one's best friend. I never got the impression that he is working on himself for the player character, but more that the player character sparked the desire in him to reconsider things about his behaviour and world view.
In Gale's case otoh, he literally gives up his ambitions because the player character asks him to, not because of some realisation about the nature of godhood. His ambition-plot gets somehow mangled into his insecurity-issue-plot and neither gets a good resolution that is independent from the player character. I was so frustrated with this not-resolution of his issues, that I played Origin Gale next, romanced Astarion and had my most satisfying play-through yet, because it felt like such a hopeful ending for both of them.
@kelsey190 Many therapists are different, as are the fact that psychology books are always changing. It mainly depends on the person, and yes they did write him well.
A good essay, but I gotta say, there's a huge amount of appeal for his darker aspects, too, I find. The fact that he's manipulative in the beginning, that he's brutal and unapologetic about it, and that he's a self-interested liar are all things that add to that appeal, genuinely. Specifically in the fact that his genuine emotions and his vulnerability being accessible to the player means he can serve the most illusive and dangerous of all women's fantasies: "I can fix him."
Agreed. I wish more of us women would just fess up to this.
Now see, having been SA'ed myself, I have had a railroad of feelings between sympathy and anger at Astarion. During my first playthrough, I was quite put off by him at first... being that after just two or three nights in camp he tries to violate your bodily autonomy while you're sleeping by biting you without permission. After learning his story more, I did start to feel sympathy for him (and especially once I found out WHY he tries to bite you through watching a scene from where you play AS him), but I definitely still don't have the obsession with him that some do. I empathize with him, but that one part did kinda sour him to me a little. I will say though that THAT scene in Act 3 (If you've played, I'm sure you know which one I mean) is so powerful, SO cathartic, and literally made me sob, after having been in an abusive relationship myself. It made me feel so much.
@@kloy.m341 I mean, I wouldn't say that he *learns* to love without physical intimacy, because when you romance him not as Karlach, he eventually admits that he's not sure that he actually wants to have physical intimacy anymore because of all the years that he was forced to use his body and sexuality as a means to lure people back to Cazador, and says that act of physical intimacy just feel cheap and gross to him at that point. He actually is very happy if you tell him after he admits that, that you're okay with not having sexual intimacy with him for as long as he needs, for him to feel comfortable.
Astarion has been such a blessing.
I first saw him long before BG3 was out, and liked his style, specifically his "old-timey manners", and the way he talks. I am a real sucker for that, and his voice is really pleasing.
Then, after I played I got really into him because of all the SA that happened to him. It basically felt the same as my experiences, minus the vampire bits, obviously. This is why it really makes me sad as Hell when people say "he is just a hot guy" or basically treat him exactly how he doesn't want to be treated. I have struggled with the whole "Maybe I am only good for sex" thing he is going through and it's so absolutely destructive. You get to that point after seemingly the whole world treats you like a "thing" and sooner or later you act like it because "they've gotta be right".
I have never really cared if somebody disrespected a fictional character before, but because Astarion is so tied in with my own situation (and that of many friends, sadly), people making poop remarks about him feels like they'd say the same kind of crap to my friends or me, and that's just not right, you know?
I actually don't like Astarion very much, at least not romantically. In fact, my friend got mad at me because I had him pinned immediately and didn't learn about him organically. Though I do consider him a well written character, I didn't find him as complex as a lot of people keep saying he is. With just a few brief conversations, I figured out he'd been hurt and was taking it out on other people, I knew he was trying to manipulate me in order to survive, and I knew he was angry and lashing out, but that's something I've never been able to abide. As someone who's been hurt and _should_ have been able to relate to Astarion, I just couldn't. I _understood_ him, I understood his selfishness, I understood his "no one helped me, so why should I help anyone" mentality, but I've just never been able to view life that way, no matter what it's thrown at me. As someone who's been hurt, I like to try and help other people so they don't have to suffer too, but all throughout act one Astarion tried to put a kibosh on everything I did. He didn't like it when I saved a _child,_ he didn't like it when I helped the gnomes, he didn't like it when I was nice to my other companions, he didn't like it when I agreed to help Zevlor and the refugees, he didn't like it when I was kind to anyone. I had to put him in time out so many times just so his affinity wouldn't nosedive. I do appreciate his romance and that you can change his alignment, but he put a bad taste in my mouth the moment I met him, because I've known men like him. I've never been able to accept that having a hard life or a tragic past makes it acceptable to be an ahole. That said, I personally feel like maintaining a platonic friendship with him is better for his recovery than a romance, especially since he's become so numb to sx. After a while he did grow on me and I do think he's absolutely hilarious at times, but I definitely struggled with him.
The way you worded this so beautifully and found me many more reasons to love him is incredible.
I’m a straight guy and I love having him around, I share many of the similar feeling he does about trust and intentions as he does, having been mentally emotionally and at one point sexually abused by previous girlfriends. He is an inspiration to improve and evolve. I just wish you could give him the revenge he wants while also being able to show him he’s become the man he’s hunted. But I guess even in fiction you can’t have both
I’ve seen so many people (mostly guys) mocking others for liking Astarion because he is just an “uninteresting vampire that just uses pretty words”. Thank you so much for making this video.
Not sure what it says about my psychology but I'm finding it really hard to romance Astarion. I've never liked having sexuality projected on to me. So all his "sexy" lines really made me feel gross. I've never been physically assaulted but people have often mentally assaulted me - often telling me what they thought I was feeling, describing what they think I looked like undressed, or telling me in great detail what they wanted to do to me. People would follow me home making comments on my body. Bedroom talk makes me want to crawl out of my skin now.
I LOVE Astarion when he wasnt being romanced. Like, my Tav and him were platonic BFFs but going through his romance playthrough has been challenging. I was told his story with Durge is the best out of all the companions so I hope it gets better.
Gale was a good play through for me. Everything about him just felt safe.
Gale is so silly, I love him. Personally he makes me squeal and crush IRL LMAO, but I think my Tav is drawn to Astarion because she has a strong urge to protect (oath of the ancients paladin) and sees that he is truly hurting and vulnerable. She knows he needs someone by his side and she is happy to be there- albeit her lack of romantic interest (aroace). She still feels something for him, although she isn’t sure what it is, and likely will never fully know. I’ve just started Act 3 so their relationship has just started, and my Tav is getting used to the vulnerability. She almost likes it- but she also has the inner fear that reflects exactly onto Astarion. She’s aromantic because of fear- fear of romance, fear of having to commit to something that might hurt her. But Astarion is different, and she thinks she likes that.
And that’s why *I* personally like Astarion for this run. His ‘sexy’ lines were just brushed off by my Tav- she was indifferent, she could recognise the mask of a persona Astarion had put on right away.
Literally 99% of this is from my life experiences. I tried so hard to NOT project onto her.. it didn’t work 😂 I’ve always been the therapy friend who kept to themselves and never really liked relationships (any kind really.)
Sorry for the ramble lol
Personally I actually had more issues with romancing Gale instead of Astarion because he didn't feel safe to me at all. He seems really unstable in his own ways as well sometimes, like when he basically goes "at least my death won't hurt you too much" after you tell him you don't feel the same way when he confesses to you. Like that is an absolutely insane thing to say and it's not the only time he refers to his own death when his feelings are hurt. He's extremely dependent on the player character in regards to him not wanting to literally die and it's a lot of pressure to put on someone. That being said of course neither Astarion or Gale come without their flaws, it just depends what kind of flaws you are willing to work around with
I mean, when you really think about what Astarion is doing through a good portion of the game, he is behaving the way he was trained. He was tortured and trained into being seductive and he clearly has trouble turning that off. Plus, the sheer knowledge that this is all exactly how he was able to seduce hundreds, potentially thousands of people into Cazador's castle...
@@rosesweetcharlotte yeah, my trauma is caused by guys like Astarion (act 1). They definitely wrote that type of personality well. Definitely did not feel safe 😬, probably doesn't feel safe to most people but I think most people deliberately romance his character to get past that part of his character arc.
@@lavishlyvice Gale is a depressed people pleaser with rejection sensitivity who you meet when he's hit rock bottom - he made a huge mistake that ate up all of his natural born gifts and will eventually kill him, he also has kind of disgraced himself in his community. So he's not in a great headspace however, that response is after he gets insulted by Tav after he sleeps with them. I mean, I'd feel like jumping off a bridge if I told someone I loved them, made a whole romantic show for them, and they just said it was "meh" after I let them see my vulnerability. So, I think he gets a pass there. He doesn't do that if you tell him you choose a different companion over him. You ask him to stay with the party and he says he doesn't hate you or a anything like that. His response there isn't to garner sympathy or change your mind, it's more of a frustration response.
"Not a game, not a hunt...but a dance". That was beautifully phrased.
I can't help but feel like part of this is somewhat cognitive dissonance. One of your first interactions with Astarion is him creeping up on you at night to violate you - which he justifies. It is an easy analogy of sexual boundaries being crossed. Also, it seems like the majority of those who like Astarion are focused on his charm/voice/looks and are attracted to him LONG before you know that he is actually a very complex and ultimately safe person.
This all feels like rationalizing after the fact. He is charming, irascible, and exudes a very authentic and potent masculine energy. He's hot. Just say he's hot. It's icing on the cake that he has an interesting story and a deep personality. But the cake is that he is hot.
Agreed.