At this point I’ve kinda just stopped caring about this whole situation and just enjoy the good parts. I ain’t gonna let a bunch of random people on the internet ruin a remake of one of my favorite games. But god I wished we didn’t have to go though this all over again
One thing that I'm the most concerned about with the TTYD remake, is that if we ever do get a new Paper Mario game that's just like the first two, and it turns out to be actually great, there might be a chance that some folks will say "It's still not as good as TTYD."
@@a.3160 More like the fault of overhyped fans that set their expectations way too high, or hold TTYD on a pedestal and worship it like a deity. I love the game as much as the next PM fan, but the amount of love some people give TTYD is borderline unhealthy.
I mean, if said game is genuinely lackluster, then you can't blame people for saying TTYD is better. :P Sure, some people will always cling to TTYD out of nostalgia, but this new game will have to be genuinely fantastic first, before anyone can accuse anyone of bias.
Seems like a mischaracterization of most fan's complaints. The gripe isn't usually that the sequels suffered a drop in quality, but that the gameplay, which is what they fell in love with, changed so drastically as the series progressed.
It really is up to the fanbase to foster a change for the better in the PM community. Do you guys want to continue being neckbeards, taking any and every opportunity to attack each other for the sake of clout or to have a "win"? Or can we learn to accept opinions, be excited for the remake, and work towards repairing the damage built over 10 years? This video is on point.
the forced love on sticker star games like TOK, and CS who basically enjoy shit games can have them for all I care just give people who actually enjoy good games a choice problem solved lmaoo😂
@@niteriemcfarlane5285Honestly I think it's mostly nostalgia the small group of fans have for Sticker because it's not rocket science I think to know why that game is the black sheep of this spin off series.
Ok, but I didn't like sticker star or color splash or origami king (it was too different) and people will be disappointed if extram changes are made to a game that a lot of people liked. The truth is we wanted more games like paper Mario 64 and ttyd and Nintendo didn't deliver, now that we get another chance most people don't want to mess it up.
@@courtneycherry5582 Yeah it's honestly a head scratcher why Tanabe the replacement director for this series after Kawade left to work on the Fire-Emblem series would gut so much that worked about this series simply from a suggestion Miyamoto gave out or a flawed Nintendo power question essay about SPM having apparently 1% liking it's story which is very much hard to believe if you ask most gamers who played that game and apparently before Sticker was even released Miyamoto said that game was boring like ouch😖.
I'm not gonna judge anyone for preferring modern PM to Classic PM, they just aren't games that appeal to me at all. I need my Mario RPGs to be full of creative character designs that play off of and expand the Mario universe in fun ways. Which just happens to be what TTYD was very good at. So I'm just happy the game is being remade and I hope the next new game will follow in its footsteps.
They're essentially adventure games instead of RPG's like the first 3. I personally really enjoyed OK for what it was and the same story applied to a ttyd/SPM game could easily be the best game in the series.
As someone whos a fan of Origami King, one thing Im sick of hearing is people complaining about the paper aesthetic. I get it, its not what the old games had and therefore bad. But a series called Paper Mario should be allowed to utilize the paper theme. Origami King is an objectively flawed game and I can accept valid criticism but I just get sick of hearing the same rehashed bs about it being too paper focussed
i think sticker star being on the 3ds was the thing that saved it from being the tipping point. most fans probably just saw it as a handheld paper mario "spin off" (ik its a full game) type of game. color splash kind of just confirmed that it was not that and this was the direction
I personally hate the people who lump everyone together as a single toxic fanbase the most. On both sides it are such small minorities that are being toxic, I find it so annoying when people talk about the few bad apples as the entire fandom. Same thing happens with Pokemon
I would rather have people overpraise TTYD even tho most folks exaggerate that statement over reddit fandom of modern paper Mario games who refuse to acknowledge those games flaws and defend them as if their lives depend on it like crazy sociopaths dat kill others just for not liking same thing as they do 😭💀👻
@@ultimatesora4467 No no no. It is not a fact. Wanna know why you think that? Because the toxic individuals are the ones who get all the attention. Most fans in any fanbase are just chill people who wanna have a good time, THOSE people make up a big chunk of the fanbases, but they don't gain much attention and are overshadowed by the toxic ones.
@@niteriemcfarlane5285 you know that some older game stans also send threats to others for liking certain games in the series right ? Both sides are at fault on that bud
I understand people being hard on the newer games before the remake, somewhat. There's this feeling that you have to hate on the games so that Nintendo might hear you and take the series in a new direction. It's still bad to actually attack people for liking the new ones, but I can see how people might be threatened by games like The Origami King doing so well and getting such a good reception. ...That being said, that's not a problem anymore, so... XD You can't even use that excuse. Cool it down, older fans.
yea but that makes sense if a game developer changed my favorite series and got rid of everything i loved like Hell i’m going to complain about it we have every right to complain about the new direction it’s not about being a bad game it’s about taking Everything We Loved About The Series And Throwing It Away we wanted to like the new games but when they keep missing certain stuff that we loved about the old games it makes sense why we’d hate the new games so damn much thank god for this ttyd remake as i have hope for paper mario again seriously i boycotted origomi king for bug fables because at least it had the core elements that i loved from ttyd the origomi didn’t have those so obviously i’m gonna boycott it for the game that has what i’m actually looking for in paper mario
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Paper Mario community is two entirely different fandoms living under the same roof. I'm unfortunately not sure if there's a solution to that other than to try and find a balance.
agreed i really thought after the ttyd remake was announced that just like the original poster on the video said why would they be fighting still i thought it would calm everything down too as we all have our games now so there’s no reason to fight unfortunately other people think differently
unless someone makes a Paper Mario fangame that combines the aspects of both classic and modern games in a way that it can be the most enjoyable gaming experience. Personally, I wished Nintendo did something just like what I said that the whole Paper Mario fanbase can truly enjoy.
I've legit seen people say that they hope that Paper Mario becomes more bland and generic just to make classic fans feel like change is even more hopeless for this series, and like, speaking as someone who believes that Sticker star is the only TRULY bad game in the franchise and every other game both before and after it have plenty of aspects that make them fun and enjoyable experiences, i understand getting mad at people for being extremely harsh on a game you didn't think was that bad, or even that you loved, or was your very first video game so you have a lot of fun memories with it, that is still maybe a little bit excessive. I believe that a future Paper Mario game can absolutely please everyone if they learn from this TTYD remake while also not choosing to throw their previous three games in the trash, there is a golden opportunity here to finally, like Origami king tried so hard to do but was held back from doing, please as much of the fanbase as can possibly be pleased here. But it does genuinely feel sometimes like there are people in the community who only like the newer games because they specifically want Mario to be bland and boring and thing it's best for Nintendo to go out of their way to make people who want Mario to be creative and inventive suffer as much as is humanly possible. Like unlike the people who genuinely like Color splash and Origami king and are willing to be civil towards classic fans, there is just a subset of fans that don't actually care about those games and just like them because they hate Mario being unique and imaginative because it makes a subset of people on the internet they find a little bit annoying happy and they'd rather that all the more civil and non toxic people who want Paper Mario to have it's own identity be forced to deal with it too just so the annoying ones can suffer too and Mario be a stagnant, sanitized series for the rest of all time. As a reminder, i do agree that some classic fans, more than likely and equal amount to the toxic new fans, can be toxic as well, so don't get me wrong, i've seen plenty of needlessly toxic stuff from both sides, it's just that one tweet that said that they wanted the series to become as bland and flavorless as possible for the sake of dunking on TTYD fans stuck with me in a unique way. I saw some people get a little too excited at the TTYD reveal myself and use it as a chance to be unnecessarily heated towards the newer games to a degree that made me uncomfortable or just being edgy for edgy's sake, but i don't want the entire series and all the fans of TTYD who gave the modern games a shot to be dragged down just to "OWN" this small, albeit loud, subset of people who's disdain for the modern games can come off as a bit intense. Those people can do what they want. The best thing to do in this scenario is just ignore them and enjoy the things you wanna enjoy. If you are someone who has only played one of the last three games and loved them, that's awesome, and i just wanna say, if you're on the fence about TTYD, i legitimately would suggest giving it a shot. I think that game has a lot of elements seen in the Origami king that you may really love. You don't have to put down sixty bucks for it, i'm not saying that, but what i am saying is that i hope everyone keeps and open mind and is willing to hear this game out because i feel like we can all have our cakes and eat them too here, we can all come to an agreement and finally get the game that bridges the TTYD/Origami king gap if this game sells well. We can get a fun beginners RPG with fun characters and unique locations that still has a lot of the same hilarious writing, fun world exploration and puzzle solving of the recent games if we all set aside our differences.
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling about the Paper Mario fan base for a while now. While PM classicists suck, I feel like nowadays, I see more people complaining about them than I do actual classicists.
I think one of the things that gets me right, is the idea that by simply being critical or not liking specific games is considered by people on Twitter as "toxic." It kinda infuriates me when I see people say, look how toxic these people are repeatedly hating on this thing that I like, they're a bunch of babies. I won't be gaslit into thinking that simply having an opinion on a thing can be considered toxic, it's just dumb. I hate that the discussion can be twisted depending on the point of view of the person reading it, like, so many out there will see "Paper Mario fans are so toxic" and immediately correlate this with the idea that it is because they are complaining about not liking something, when in reality, the true toxicity is those that are putting other's down for their specific views. I'll say it again: I do not care what somebody's opinion is on the franchise, no matter how counter to mine it may be, you are entitled to your opinion that's just how it works. But when I see people trying to write off me or others for simply expressing their opinion, that's when it crosses the line for me. I can't stand the generalizations and outright lies I've seen about other's perspectives over the years, a lot of hoop jumping to make individuals sound like they have no credibility when just engaging with them for any amount of time often shows that no, they just have a perfectly reasonable opinion on the games. With the amount of insane stuff I've seen thrown at Arlo for example, if you were an outsider to the discussion you'd be surprised that his videos on the topic are extremely in depth breakdowns of such things as gameplay elements and concepts.
I just want people to be normal and talk about my favourite game with people... but just yesterday my "controversial take" was the backtracking didnt hurt TTYD very much and it helped level my then new to RPGs sister and was a good learning experience for newer players, because grinding isn't something a casual player will think to do with limited play time. And then someone just started attacking me "oh, so you have a low opinion of others?" "Why dont you think backtracking and grinding can exist together." Unlike when the original released, I am old now... if someone goes to personal attacks when I talk about a game that brings me happiness, im going to tell them "bye" and not interact. But man alive was their reading comprehension bad, jumping to conclusions like Olympic competitors.
"I like TTYD's backtracking because it helped my sister who's new to RPG's level up without having to grind, because she wouldn't have thought to do so otherwise since she's new to the genre and thus doesn't have a more firm grasp on the dynamics of RPG's" "you're an ignorant and elitist twat" sounds about right for excessively diehard fans.
If you're wondering how I found this video, recommendations exist. Unlike you, I'm not counting on people making their opinions based off of nothing but a one-sided story. The internet is not a place to talk about people behind their backs as if you think they won't find out. Edit: For people who want to know how the conversation REALLY went, check out their comment on SuperMarioT's "Changes I'd love in the Paper Mario Thousand Year Door Remake" video
@@AkameGaKillfan777 You are a mean person who argues in bad faith and twists words to the most ridiculous conclusion and uses that to attach people... I will talk to who I want and where I want about my experiences, I never mentioned you by name so everyone could be normal should they choose to; but you decided to expose yourself and prove my point. I told you once and I'll tell you again... you are mean and not worth my time, conversations over. Bye
@@inurare Why should I "get a life" when they can't get over what I said? Practice what you preach. Do I have "bad reading comprehension," or is it their refusal to revise or restate their comments if they think I misread it?
I loved Origami King, its probably one of my favorite games on the switch. I had Sticker Star as a kid but i dont remember much about it. Super hyped for the TTYD remake
From my point of view, I don't get why Paper Mario has a fan base of its own, like it doesn't make sense. Even though Paper Mario might be an alternate universe of the Mario universe, I still see them the same. Also, as a Mario fan of my own that also likes Paper Mario, I love all of the paper Mario games except for sticker star and I don't care for story changes that much. I'm technically on both Paper Mario sides, but truthfully I like the entire franchise as a whole. I think now that thousand year door is finally coming out I think It should give the fan base a chance to finally chill out for ones and not be toxic anymore hopefully.
I honestly refuse to view Paper Mario's first three games as separate from the rest of the Mario universe. In my eyes, they are an expansion of the Mario lore, just shown off in a different artstyle. The later three are clearly a different universe, though. Even if it's a different universe, I’d still view the Paper Mario fandom as a sub fandom of the overall Mario fandom, just more hostile than the rest of it.
@@mariobroultimate1808it’s definitely separate from the mario universe thats one thing clear in the originals what with the curses in ttyd, the foreground background system in super, and just the way the universe is built mario and luigi games are far more fitting for the original universe, Unfortunately you also cant really say sticker star is separate from the first 3 as the game actually references previous characters in a garbage dump (I know that is extremely ironic considering the direction the series was going) theres thrown away letters from parakarry,a article by goombella and i can’t remember if they had more then that but at the very least every paper mario game shares the same universe i mean kammy is literally taped into the star spirit book in 64 we then of course battle this mafioso in origami king.
@@M64bros I don't know to me Paper Mario has a different feel to Mainline Mario it's just something about that guy with his blank stare and his obsession with smacking everything with his hammer really separates him
@@powerfullpummel6417 The paper elements in the first time games were moreso gags than anything. You could cut them out and not much would change. I have a friend who made a version of TTYD's story that replaced the paper transformations with other features, such as a belt that would store each of Mario's partners. The later three games on the other hand rely heavily on the paper aspect. That one garbage scene was clearly just the developers sneaking references underneath the IP team's noses. I could see there being two separate versions of each of the first three Paper Mario adventures. One version is the one canon to the main Mario world without the paper gags, and the other is the one canon to the Paper Mario world which is why they are referenced in the garbage dump and Peach's portraits in the Princess Peach.
Thank you for this video in showcasing that its not just "TTYD fans" as the problem. That's actually a major issue I have had with the "TTYD fans" claim for a long time because when you use the term fan, it is generalizing everyone in association. Not only that, while TTYD is my favorite PM game with TOK right after (My ranking goes TTYD, TOK, 64, CS, RPG, SS) it is so strange to me how TTYD seems to invoke this kind of mud-slinging from the community, I don't think I have ever seen a remake of a game get THIS much controversy and drama upon just a simple release trailer. I also feel it is rather gatekeeping to tell people they don't deserve a game, especially when said fans just do it as an excuse about their game not getting the remake. This even goes into a bigger issue, I use to dedicate my Twitter to refuting these claims fans had but stopped because it got too toxic! In fact, I have distanced myself from this fanbase entirely, because of how awful it is, especially when it comes to TTYD. I just talk about it either in your server or just with friends, as community interaction just amounts to "Hottake here's my thoughts on said game" which either amounts to their own personal PM game bias, or just use it as an excuse to bash TTYD. There was also this weird shift from fans who wanted the TTYD remake, to now saying they don't want it because their game deserves it yet complain about TTYD all the time. So, you don't want a remake that can potentially fix those issues? Or not even give a chance for people who don't have the broadest access to it? TBH I find the hate toward TTYD in recent times to be FAR more toxic and echo chambery than those who harass newer fans. Because up till this remake, I would literally see posts on Reddit like every month of people complaining about TTYD in some way, to the point EVERY single thing about the game has some kind of controversial or hated aspect, and its like one thing to point out flaws in a game because you want to voice something you feel doesn't get voiced, then just turning complaints into an echo chamber that gets repeated over and over and over again. At that point, it just becomes obnoxious and repetitive. And it isn't just modern fans, even 64 elitists and Bleck Knights (SPM extremists) have become toxic in hating TTYD as well, when this whole "TTYD fans" thing, only comes from it being considered the best game. (I honestly find them to be worse extremists than so-called "TTYD fans" because they get much more defensive and toxic about their respective game yet criticize people who do the same to TTYD) Yet anyone who likes TTYD will NEVER say they hate either game. Meanwhile, fans make a point to state that no game is a masterpiece yet hold their own game up to the same regard they criticize TTYD for. (Hell up until this remake announcement I found more people complaining about TTYD than fans harassing Modern fans who liking modern titles) It's to the point where I've seen fans bring up TTYD when it had nothing to do with the conversation of said PM game, just to turn it into a Vs war between their game and TTYD, mostly just to complain about it. And to me, I find it jarring to say every element of the game annoys you but still cling onto a particular element to say you like it, to me that feels as if you're creating an abusive relationship with a game in which the entire point is to entertain the player. It's also just the annoying trend of gamers just making videos to bash games by saying "Why X game isn't perfect" when its just an amalgamation echo chamber of the same complaints everyone else has just begun repeating in repetitive video form, Pokemon fans are especially egregious about this. I literally couldn't go anywhere, on Discord or Reddit or even RUclips at times without seeing hate or complaining about TTYD in some way. I also don't like this image the community (or others in general) sets where they base a game's reputation as something, even when that rep has long since changed to the degree they say. Like people still claim SPM is underrated, yet nobody in 2023 (going on 2024) would say its a bad game or criticize it to the same degree, yet fans still use that same perceived notion to create this victim complex toward the game, its like the Ocarina of Time situation, where just because it was considered the "best game ever" that's the basis people USE to judge it, when in reality you get the opposite discourse or opinions just on average, even if I myself hold it as my favorite Zelda and consider Twilight Princess the worst 3D Zelda. I have made it a thing to just not take Twitter seriously anymore, they'll complain about anything to turn anything into a warzone. I'm not saying TTYD is a perfect game, no game is, which is why the "No game is perfect" statement in videos bug me because like yeah, there is no perfect game, if you find a flaw in a game, then it isn't perfect. I also find there is nothing wrong with considering a game perfect as long as you aren't being toxic about it. At the end of the day, like whatever PM game you like or dislike what you like, just don't use them as an excuse to be Jerkasses toward on another.
These fandoms with so many different games are beyond canceruos, the soul series, Mario, hell, the Zelda fanbase is making me seriously consider never interacting with another fandom
Your first mistake was using twitter. Your second mistake was being in a "fandom". Stick to your close friends and game together. Isn't that what it used to be when the internet was not widely available? Id follow this advice for keeping your mental health as I did. Also, if you care about people having this much toxicity OVER A VIDEO GAME then I really recommend taking a break and a breather to focus on yourself to understand that your opinions, your likes, your favorites all matter and that your friends and others can/do care about you. All of this may be true but you should ignore it all and focus on yourself. That is what matters: you. This whole modern internet social media song and dance of stigma and clout is damaging your mental health. Please, just enjoy what you enjoy and dont let anyone tell you else.
@@yonderalt2662 I have already been doing that for a couple months now, I don't actively engage. I just wanted to get my thoughts out here since nobody ls touches on this topic in detail. And by engaging with friends, I don't just mean RL, but online too.
Finally someone points it out, I'm getting really tired of people saying that SPM is "underrated" when it really isn't. If anything, it's tied with TTYD with being the most loved Paper Mario game at this point in time.
@@kirbytheartist3318 I honestly find SPM the most overrated game, I even find the story to not be as good as people say, despite it being the best part about the game. It's just very flawed otherwise.
The Paper Mario community is easily one of the most horrendous communities I've ever been a part of from both sides of the fanbase. It's hard to say anything without being absolutely dogpiled no matter if it's on Twitter, Reddit, or even just a small discord server. As a CS and TOK enjoyer, I remember being pretty young and having my first "kys" for even liking it. I would have always argued that it's that side that was the worst, but the modern side has become way more insufferable lately. Even people who are reasonable will often argue in bad faith (ie. "the devs are just have a big ego" or "nothing in ttyd was ever made of paper ever" or "erm actually cs does have exp there's hammer scraps it's the exact same thing for sure"). My old CS videos are super duper cringe because I was on the defensive and I was pretty bad faith in them. I will say, the majority of people I've interacted with in terms of TTYD fans talking to me about me liking the modern games have absolutely not been respectful, and I would say it's the minority that has actually been reasonable. But I don't that's indicitive of the fanbase as a whole, I think that's because I'm a content creator and the people who are gonna be shouting to be heard are probably going to have more extreme opinions. I think what doesn't help is that nobody actually has anything to add to the conversation and it's just whining about the same things. I feel like every 2 months a new video essay comes out on Sticker Star that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and looks for things to complain about. Chuggaa's series is an example of one that I'd consider good, adds to the conversation, and criticises elements fairly without actively looking for things to complain about. But generally, I think that's just the Nintendo and probably gaming community as a whole. Just quite a bit worse than average. I stopped looking at Nintendo discourse as much as I can and damn my mental health is so much better haha. I remember I offhandedly mentioned in my TTYD reaction that it was my least favourite in the series and damn some of the comments I got were absurd lmao. I think it will improve when modern fans actually play TTYD. I feel like a lot of them haven't tried it or seen just how much depth the battling has. 2016 me getting mad in the comments was one of those people haha.
@@PoyoDreamerTLDR: The Paper Mario fanbase sucks ass and keeps arguing about the same things, Chugga's did an actually good analysis on the entire series, and hopefully now that we have a more accessible remake of TTYD, everyone can finally shut up and be friends.
Ive encountered so many toxic fans it made me dread the ttyd remake more then be hopeful for it. Some people trying to argue with me over just liking SPM more, the gif search is literally full of anti spm gifs is how silly this garbage has gotten.
I blame Nintendo overall .One thing I could say is the modern fans are not Angels either they be trolling and doing the exact same thing what the classic fans does
I feel like it’s that both sides dont try to understand the other. Old fans have some fans have valid criticisms about the modern games but they sometimes are very hostile towards people who happens to like these games. On the other hand you have some modern fans who calls the old ones nostalgia blind or toxic without even asking themselves why they dont like the newer games. It’s ok to take a stance but I wish that both side would act debate calmly instead of constantly attacking each other.
I used to be someone who was only on the modern side as my first game was color splash and then I played TOK. I gave 64 a try and genuinely loved it but I would have done it sooner had the fanbase not made me feel as if im wrong for enjoying the new games. The main issue is people not letting others enjoy things Im glad that TOK was able to sorta bridge the gap a bit for many though.
I've seen such an insane amount of people on twitter completely write off the idea of even trying older titles because of the discourse, absolutely insane to me when we're talking about games that have been universally praised since release, when this new vs old conversation wasn't even an idea yet. It's gotta be some insane level of mental gymnastics to stop yourself from playing what are by most accounts quality experiences only because of petty Internet discourse.
@@Cheesehead302 it’s because its associated with those toxic fans I think it’s fair for someone to claim that they cant see themselves playing a game if they keep being told that they’re wrong for enjoying something. A less toxic way to go about it would be saying “If you liked the new ones YOULL LOVE TTYD!” Or something along those lines
Thing is, There are good aspects of the new games, even if I heavily prefer the RPG style. It would be great if the vocal parts of the fanbase tried to be understanding of the other's views. Even if IMO the old games are better overall, I think it could borrow specific aspects of the new games to be the best it can.
@@powerfullpummel6417 I disagree honestly. Fair I guess but imagining myself not playing say og Sonic games or something because the discourse between the modern and classic fans back in the day seems a little ridiculous. You're free to think whatever you want I guess, it's just video games.
One thing I can say about the Paper Mario community is that toxicity isn't even exclusive to it, there are so many fanbase that I'm part in and every single one of them has their own toxic fans running rampant, seeing these kind of fans are annoying and exhausting to be around with! I swear, everytime I want to tell my own opinions on any related subjects, I could receive countless heinous comments and death threats to the point that I don't want to be associated with the fandom that I would not longer be a part in anymore due to how upset, disappointed and depressed I would become! I just wished that conversations in fan communities were civil and that everyone respected each other's opinions!
I'm a classic Paper Mario fan myself, and never once have I been toxic to anyone in the fandom man. I'm also someone who really loved Origami King a lot with how dark it got. The only game I legit didn't like was obviously Sticker Star, but even that game had a few small good moments here and there. I'm a huge fan of TTYD, and I'm super excited for the remake, but I'm just sad that some of the fandom has this foolish belief about the franchise at times... 😓 (I kinda wish you showed some more examples of people saying some of these things on sites like T w i t t e r though. Because while I'm not doubting their existence... we kinda just have to go off of your word, which as someone who cares about evidence, is kinda an issue for me. Also, nitpicking admittedly, but the pauses between each line could have been edited out or something man, because they only make the video a bit of a slog at times. Not hating you or anything man, these are just some issues I have with this video is all.)
I’m a Paper Mario veteran. I grew up with PM 64 and played all Paper Mario games. Yes, I don’t really like SPM, PMSS, PMCS and I have loved PM64 and PMTOK. I wish the TTYD crybabies stopped for once. It is super toxic and I have withdrawn with the drama. Paper Mario is getting better, TOK was awesome and even though I am a tad disappointed for the remake, I’m happy that the Paper Mario series is getting better. But the fan base is super toxic 😅
As someone who’s played The Most are not Modern 2 (CS *Currently replaying* and TOK) and The 2 Classic ones (64 and TTYD *currently playing* ) it’s hard find anyone who enjoys all games like I do
Sheesh. I knew this community can be toxic at times. But this is an whole new level. Some people just don't understand why these games; specifically the first 2 Paper Mario games ( or with some, first 3 Paper Mario games if u want to count Super ) are so special and great to begin with. They have unique story/plot, interesting characters, lore and most importantly, an fun gameplay that it's known for. The fact some people don't get that and why the modern Paper Mario games failed to capitalized really pisses me off.
The problem is that you basically CAN'T like the modern 3, because they are talked into dirt. It's called PAPER MARIO. of course its gonna focus more on the Mario world.
I love this series, and I see both sides. My first game was SPM. (So, the things I loved about it wasn’t the pure rpg stuff). My view was always I’d prefer it to go back to the original style, but what we were getting, I’d much rather have that than nothing at all, which is what I was worried might happen. I don’t approve of toxicity from either side. It did hurt to see a RUclipsr who I viewed as someone who had the ability to see the good in less popular games just basically abuse the modern ones, like a blanket hate. I understand not preferring them, or even not liking them, but can’t you be a bit less abusive about it? They still have good stuff in them, like, lots of things that are really enjoyable. My hope is that modern fans will see what it is about the classics people like, and that classic fans, now that their games are getting time in the spotlight, they can see what it is that people like about them. Isn’t that reasonable?
yea it’s kinda reasonable but at this point in time certain people are in the series for completely different reasons don’t get me wrong i would love to have the sniffit or wiffit game in a ttyd style game it’s actually something i loved about sticker star the series is kinda like sonic and atelier now and there are people who are there for different reasons not that it’s our fault i’m a modern atelier fan and a classic paper mario fan but i honestly couldn’t even play the old atelier games since i fell in love with atelier because of the jrpg mechanics from the ryza trilogy and was honestly livid when the old fan got a return to form because its not what made me fall in love with atelier and the same applies to paper mario the problem is that the old rpg and jrpg style of atelier games share the same name at this point it wouldn’t matter if it was the greatest rpg of all time it’s not what us jrpg atelier fans were there for
Paper Mario can be whatever it wants as long as it's *good* I wouldnt have it any other way. I love Color Splash. I love TTYD I tolerate Origami King Super made me cry (in a good way) and I havent yet finished 64 but its fun just because one game was bad doesnt mean I have to throw piss baby fits, and I should have realized that a lot sooner
@@trenth.7053 it sucks. everything about the world and puzzle design is anti-speedrunner, anti-casual gamer, and anti-repeat-playthrough. the formula can work, though, Color Splash proves that, Baten Kaitos and Mega Man Battle Network proved that a long time ago
I guess it depends on your perspective, what if I think more than one game was bad? Honestly kinda missing the point here, you should be tolerating other peoples' views on the games instead of discounting them. That being said, I agree, I don't care what gameplay style Paper Mario is so long as its built on solid mechanics, and makes an effort to have interesting world and characters. If there's something that I think is just lame or unnecessary game design, though, I'll totally call it out.
I do still think if Nintendo sticks with the classic Paper Mario formula the fan base will unite in the long run. 90% of the modern fans will like/love the TTYD remake and won’t mind if the series continues in the classic direction. Part of this is Nintendo’s fault for continually drastically changing the direction (genre even) of the series, so of course the fan base will be divided/ toxic. Personally I enjoyed all the games (even sticker star), however I do greatly prefer the classic style (64 and TTYD)
It's okay to like or dislike a game, personally I think the Paper Mario Franchise as a whole is pretty overrated from all angles, with the game I've enjoyed the most being Super Paper Mario, since the platforming and story telling was an interesting combination, and the unique take of 3D linear and non-linear platforming was a fresh experience, the more RPG combat style of the rest of the Paper Mario games aren't my forte as a general disdain towards the "Helplessly take damage" style that plagues nearly all RPG's with that design, hence why I personally felt like the "Mario and Luigi" RPG series was so innovative and my preference for Mario RPG's (man I really want that series to return by more than just remasters, they were so awesome!), while there's something out there for everyone to enjoy, that doesn't mean everyone has to enjoy it, and that is perfectly fine! Just don't hate someone who likes something else.
I never really played TTYD but when it dose come out I want to try it out myself. I love all of the paper Mario series with each installment it made it intresting to play. my first ever paper Mario game is Super paper Mario, then the modern games. I cant wait for the remake so that I can play it and have a good time with it,
This reminds me of when the Sonic fandom had the crazy classic vs modern shit. Nowadays you barely see it because Sega have been treating both sides for a while now. It’s literally the same thing here, however Genesis does what Nindendo’t for better or worse.
i agree with you it was the same with sonic too i left the modern games after lost world because i prefer the classic ones, its the same with paper mario now that both sides are getting games everything's fine the problem is that the classic fans weren't getting anything until bug fables same with me with sonic until mania and sonic exe yes that even satisfied my classic sonic itch fight me about it. You can only be a fan of a series that has a consistent genre like the mario and luigi series, and the 2d kirby series ps. some people even like them all but most people including myself can only like certain types.
The internet is full of drama. Its best to just not find yourself in the middle of it. If you find that someone starts attacking you, just ignore the person, and just move on with your life. At the end of the day, you're essentially dealing with cults lol
I love TTYD and hate Sticker Star, but I don’t hate Sticker Star simply because “it’s not TTYD” or because “I can’t accept change”. I had no trouble accepting Super as a good game when it came out and still like it today, and Origami King is passable. Sticker Star isn’t bad because it’s different, it’s because the change was bad. Putting aside the lack of story and generic characters, from a gameplay standpoint it just doesn’t work. Battles serve no purpose beyond padding (or if you want to complete the museum, you could get a few enemy-specific stickers) because you don’t level up and you just loose the stickers you need to solve puzzles and fight required battles. In order to simply proceed you have to subject yourself to trial and error, fall down every sand pit until you find the one that doesn’t kill you, or strike a hidden block so you can jump across a flower before it becomes hazardous again, or jump down a waterfall that looks like it would be blocked off by an invisible wall, all to simply continue the game. Sticker Star isn’t worth defending in the slightest, even Shigeru Miyamoto thought the game was boring. That said, this entire argument seriously needs to end. No more death threats, no more toxic modern fans trying to rain on everyone’s parade, no more toxic Classic fans throwing mindless shade at the modern fans. There are people out there who legitimately like all the games. It’s time to move on.
It's a shame, the paper mario franchise is one of my favourites but I just never bother to get involved with the community anymore. I'm definitely more into the newer games as I don't have the nostalgia for the older ones. My first one was Super Paper Mario which I loved. In fact when playing Super Paper Mario I didn't even realise there were older paper mario games. Sticker Star I never played and thank god as it looks terrible. Colour Splash I liked a lot though and seemed to be a much more improved version of Sticker Star, and then Origami King is one of my favourite games of all time tbh. I love puzzle games so seeing that being the main element mixed with paper mario is my perfect game tbh. Got a gamecube several years ago to finally see what the hype with TTYD is about, got about 2 hours in and never finished it. I just found it boring compared to what I'm used to. And even mentioning that online would make me feel bad for having an opinion. I'm definitely not one of the people who say 'TTYD fans don't deserve this remake', but at the same time I have trouble feeling happy for the TTYD fans just because what the community is like, but yeah not all fans are going to be toxic of course. I'll still give the remake a try, but I don't think any paper mario will beat Origami King for me
A bad game as well as its criticism doesnt just disappear because people finally got something they wanted. The problems that upset people in the first place still exist so it should have been expected the hate would continue as it always has. I still hate the notion that any toxic fan ruins a game when the two are unrelated. A games quality does not change because some guy gets annoyed about your stance behind it. Simply recognize why they are upset then go back to playing the game. Either side does not change the reality of what the game actually is.
I never understand how the most fun, happy, colourful games or tv shows can create the absolute worst fan bases 😂😂 I’m a MASSIVE paper Mario fan and I feel like even though I hold the “the old games were better” opinion, but I still don’t understand how you can be so mean and unnecessarily toxic about it
The Paper Mario fanbase is just one of the most toxic fanbases I've ever encountered in all my years of gaming (of course l'm only talking about the vocal fans as you mentioned). I've played every game so far and yeah, TTYD is my fav. game in the series aswell, and I didn't really enjoy SPM, Sticker Star and Color Splash. But that's just my opinion and if you enjoyed those games, I'm really happy for you! But here's the thing: I think that Origami King was a step in the right direction and I actually really enjoyed it. Sure, it's no TTYD but it's still pretty good imo. Many ppl just blindly hate on that game without even trying to see the good things about it. I feel like they just take the opinions from certain larger youtubers as facts (I won't name them but we all know who I'm talking about) without making their own opinions and that's a bit sad and unfair to me.
7:08 this makes me pity the person who made this, the reasons literaly are the same reasons that people make about the newer games and they have nothing to do with the story at all.
I have played both sides, um, the biggest complaint i had was the change to limited attacks and the removal of badges, which let every game feel different and fun, but sticker star modding has started, so maybe there's hope for more people to have a better experience with that title (and since i am last and gonna have a complaint about the remake: i honestly dislike some of the quality of life changes, i love the back sprites, i hate how i have to hammer everything and press a button for the pipes and it lags in the pit, but hey, that's me complaining because i liked the og version because it was my introduced to the fandom, sorry for this mini rant)
There are always going to be people who have opposite views, opinions, & behavior to your own. If it weren't for origami king, many of us may not have ever played TTYD or paper mario 64. I had never played a paper mario game before origami king & I like all 3. That said, why do we call all opposing arguments "toxic?" I mean, at the end of the day, the negative opinions & behavior have no power unless you give them power. Those people don't like the game. You win even if you say nothing. You have a game you enjoy, they don't. Why would these opinions matter to anyone who enjoys the game? Toxic? I think not. The only thing more embarrassing than publicly crying about how the new paper mario didn't make you happy, is publicly defending a Nintendo game as though it's some kind of underdog. Nintendo doesn't need the help & not every idea they have is going to be a zinger. People have a right to their opinions regardless of the level of "toxicity." America was founded on toxic opinions of living under British rule. "Toxic" opinions are always valid even when they're misguided & misinformed. How else do we learn, if not by expressing ourselves? Especially when we are wrong. Take a firm stance against opposing opinions, but don't just label them as "toxic." That destroys any valid arguments you may have because it suggests pretension in the speaker. Paper mario fans must realize they are a goofy group of folks. Don't they? Because if not, that's even funnier. 👍🏻☕️
I may love paper mario, the first three games are good but I just simply enjoy them for what they are. You don't have to be super obsessed with them, just enjoy them for what they are. Not worship them like a religion lol.
1. Those on both sides who attack each other personally are wrong. 2. You're looking at social media cesspool like Twitter and reddit, where hyperbole is king. 3. The new games tend to get more flack and derision because they are just more divisive. It's unavoidable fact that the new paper mario games fractured the fanbase more and more over time precisely because they are divisive. All this drama didn't happen until Super and even Super's detractors came to see it still felt like the older games even if it was very different gameplay-wise. But what aggravates the situation more is the devs' literally stated desire to kill the old rpg direction and deliberate tone-deaf messaging with regards to fan feedback/ creativity. This is rough, but it's not purely fan-created. The devs did not handle the VERY poor reception to their games well with regards to disappointed fans and PR. They kinda helped create this mess, with bad messaging and awful handling of the direction of the series that they wanted.
How tf does a community with only 6 FU#$ING ENTRIES manage to be so toxic? The majority just come down brutally on CS, TOK, and god forbid you say anything positive about SS. They just defend TTYD and 64 ( SPM is in the middle ) with all their heart to the point you can't have an opinon about it that says anything negative. It sucks, as someone who grew up with Color Splash and Origami King being my 2 favorite games, that I cant even say what I feel about each game without 20 comments saying A. I didnt play the game B. Im wrong or C. Modern Paper Mario sucks/ the first 2 are the only good ones. Games? Consistently masterpieces. ( Except for ttyd and ss.) Community? Ass.
"You didnt Play the Game" is my biggest pet peeve. Like they dont know them? And even If they are right they cant treat the minority like they know everything about them. And i See Here still some passive aggressive Statements to someone praising new Games Just to defend themselves when called Out. No respect. No self Reflection. No Balls to be confronted for idiotic behaviour dispite being Anonymous. And i am Sure they also have a gaming Take a Lot of people would judge Them for..
All the toxic fans are the reason I barely play paper Mario anymore. I don't want to be thrown into a war for liking a specific game in the series. They're all fun games. If I like color splash or origami king, it shouldn't have to be a problem to other people or a reason to start an argument.
"Guys listen to my paper mario hotakes!!" Every fucking paper mario opinion is a hottake which actuall cancels it out any there are no hottakes. (Note: this message is not directed at the person who made this video)
As someone who genuinely enjoys all the paper mario games in the series (even sticker star to a degree), I don't really see why people can't just enjoy the things they do???? Like of course criticism can be a good thing but I just can't understand the mindset of getting legitimately angery at what other people think about a video game. I understand that you can be passionate about a game you love and that's great but let other people be passionate about the games they enjoy too and like, just be a reasonable human being idk.
Pardon the probing question, but do you consider Chuggaaconroy (one of the tweets you put in the thumbnail) in the category of "toxic paper mario fan"?
He does go too far sometimes but I wouldn't consider him a toxic fan because he doesn't harass other people and most of the stuff that he does with hating Sticker Star is mostly a part of his RUclips persona (even though he genuinely does hate it). He's also going through Sticker Star with his "Sticks it to Sticker Star" series and is fairly criticizing the game which I think is a decent way of approaching the game that's not just another repetitive rant about it. I just included that tweet in the thumbnail because his response to the TTYD remake spawned some controversy.
Hey I just want to state my favorite paper mario games without anyone comming to attack me I've got Paper mario 64 for my birthday when i was 7 erm...8 And then i got Super paper Mario for Christmas I loved them both I never got the chance to play thousand year door until i got my own laptop and an emulator I loved 64, TTYD, and SPM and I always refered to them as the original three, because they were amazing in their own ways I got paper Mario sticker star for Christmas when I was 9 and it was pretty boring. First, I didn't really like backtracking, and I would run away from battles so often. Looking back, yeah it wasn't that amazing, because with the lack of XP what is the point, and how would you know if you had the right "things" for the boss fights? Also if you ran out of stickers in the fights, especially boss fights your screwed. The originals had xp, and even if SPM wasn't turn based, it at least had a level up system and a reason to defeat enemies. I've heard of Color Splash, but i assumed it to be a fan game, because I've never heared of it. Nope it was actually by Nintendo. It was basically sticker star, nothing too special except for the witty dialogue, which kept it fun. However like sticker star, if you didn't have the right things, or ran out of cards, your screwed. Then I got TOK for my birthday when i was in highschool, and I felt like it was a step in the right direction, but I was cautious for this one. There was witty dialogue, and they did have partners, but unfortunately they were temporary, which was disappointing, and the puzzle idea was unique and they removed the stickers and cards, however the badges like the iron jump would break which I didn't really like, and the fact that since there are no xp points, i just don't see the reason to fight, not to mention they got repetitive. However, there were some good parts on it that i did enjoy To anybody who has read this comment, would you say that I am being Toxic? Yeah i know the ones I like have some flaws SPM: The bowser carrie strategy, but that one's not a problem for me, but the fact that you can't go back to the part where you were in castle bleck if you used the return pipe is not that great TTYD: Backtracking can be very annoying. 64: If you level up your characters too much, you basically soft lock the game, because the game is programmed to have a limit on which you can level up, in other words you'll just be stuck on the screen with the words "you can't level up that one anymore" if you try to pick HP, FP, or BP
Sorry if I'm a bit tardy to the party but, nah fam, you're not being toxic, you're just stating your opinion on each Paper Mario game. If anything, anyone who views your comment as "toxic" should probably take a loooong look in the mirror lol
I really like the old ones and the origami king. I don't hate the Star sticker and the color splash, just because it's different, but because I don't have what his previous mind did to him, like me, I don't like the sticker star very much. Only why is it different, if not because it changes its mechanics and history a lot, I would very much like it if they make a new one that they bring the old with the stories companion points stars and the new How different combat systems like the origami kingdom or they improve what was the card combat system Something a thousand years ago would be epic, it will be the best but we shouldn't go crazy insulting another person with different tastes, I just want to play the remake and enjoy What's more, I'm thinking of buying the origami king and then the remake of the thousand year door
The problems in this video goes beyond just Paper Mario or even Nintendo discussions. The Internet has this major problem where some people love to leave their manners at the door so to speak when they pick up their phone or logon to their computers. It's like some people treat the Internet like a GTA-style sandbox game where their abusive behavior has no consequence, partly because they don't see it. I say this because with most of these people, there is no way they would pull most of this nonsense at their local store or park. Like accusing people of being Nintendo defenders or being the reason why modern Paper Mario is bad is something that would get people annoyed with you IRL. Also, I'm sure these same toxic parts of the Paper Mario fanbase, they're likely also in other fandoms too, making things insufferable for others there too. I kinda wished schools would teach Internet etiquette, actually.
I personally hate Sticker Star, dislike Color Splash, and barely enjoy Origami King. Still, if you ask for my opinion in a conversation, i'll tell you what i think. But not actively being toxic with random people online, that's not good.
Honestly I think these people are trolling i remember someone said they thought tok was better than ttyd so I asked them why they thought it was better to have a genuine discussion but they just kept saying it was "better" and than they started accusing me of being a toxic ttyd fan despite the fact I Honestly think super paper mario is the best game anyways lol
Unfortunately, despite your good points, there are always going to be people out there being toxic. If Paper Mario hadn't changed so drastically over the years, with Sticker Star, Color Splash, and even Origami King gutting out everything the older fans had loved about the original Paper Mario games the older fans loved so much, then this wouldn't be a problem in the first place. But because Nintendo did what they did to a beloved series, of course you're going to have two sides of the fanbase arguing about which one's better, which leads to an all out toxic war between them. So now, even if the series goes back to how it was before Sticker Star- heck, before Super Paper Mario, the damage has already been done. Instead of just enjoying the fact the remake of TTYD could possibly mean more return to form Paper Mario, now the toxic classic fans will use that as ammo to attack the modern fans. And the toxic modern fans will scream how ALL fans who liked the classic Paper Mario games don't deserve the remake and all that. It is the unfortunate truth about human nature, especially on the internet.
You mention being annoyed with how the new games are still being talked about in light of ttyd remake. But I think you're missing how ttyd remake is shocking BECAUSE we just got 3 games that were extremely divisive and the team quite clearly seemed to be stuck on the new direction for the future. And because they had no reason to do this. They easily could have ported Color Splash or remade Sticker Star. Those games didn't break their apparent rules and limitations. But ttyd does. And they remade it. Which is why the contrast between it and the new games is brought into greater light here. Ttyd remake was such a wonderful announcement in part because of how it harshly contrasts with Paper Mario's at the time apparent shackles and the divided fan reception to the new games. I've only seen joy and happiness at ttyd's announcement. That's a far cry from the reception to the previous games. And it's worth noting to a degree, I think.
I don't even like Paper Mario. However, I want to know what about this series brings out the worst in people. This discourse is weird since the stories in these games are more or less the same thing, with the only difference being the gameplay mechanics. Compared to Dragon Quest (one of the few RPG series I like), Paper Mario feels like an entry-level beginner's RPG. Earnestly, what's good about this spin-off franchise?
As someone looking in from the outside: I've long been thinking about playing a Paper Mario game, but the fanbase has been incredibly intimidating to me, to the point where I just didn't want to bother.
Just look at the critical reception of the games and go from there. You don't have to lock yourself from playing what are by most accounts critically acclaimed titles just because people are arguing about it on the Internet.
I mean, don’t Paper Mario fans absolutely bloodlusted on toads ? They literally want them all to be dead. And it’s possible that they’re mad because Nintendo made fun of them in Origami King.
@@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712 *inhales* In Paper Mario Color of the Green Big Paint Star Chapter getting all Red Rescue Squad member Numba 23 will say “Mario sir! I’m a huge fan! Thanks for taking the time to talk to a normal Toad like me with no unique traits or discernible characteristics”
I absolutely hate the modern paper mario games. And my hate is valid, yes ive played them all, and i literally had to stop after the second chapter of each game, because i literally felt like i was forcing mtself to play this. I got 0 enjoyment out of those games. Maybe im biased as hell because i grew up with ttyd and played it constantly, i didnt even touch the first paper mario until way after super paper mario, but i believe the games are genuinely that bad, and while i dont agree on how people are hating paper mario new and old, some people do have valid reasons behind it
I know that they are remaking ttyd but that is not the same as them making a new game in the classic style and we still don't know for sure if they'd be willing to do that. I think you'll see older fans calm down if a new paper mario game is made in the classic style. Also I disagree with measuring how bad each side has been...quite frankly both sides need a chill out badge
I love that literally nothing has changed in this fandom sense the literal most ideal thing that this fandom wanted happened, if anything they've gotten more toxic
I've seen "Modern Paper Mario Fans" throw shit at Arlo for making videos about how happy he is that Paper Mario is coming back to its roots Insulting him to the point he hardly touches twitter now, blaming him for the remake happening, which is INSANE lmao I see more toxic af "Modern Paper Mario fans" these days honestly
Just wow, and they say TTYD fans are toxic... Which, don't get me wrong, some of them can be, but some of the modern Paper Mario fans aren't exactly angels themselves either
The remake was coming anyways. Blaming that on Arlo is wild to me. While I think he praises TTYD too much, he was very fair when reviewing CS and OK. I’ve seen so much worse from TTYD fans than Arlo.
The arguements about modern Paper Mario games is getting too old. This alone just make Paper Mario TTYD looks bad and the fandom itself looks terrible. There's literally zero points on bashing on recent Paper Mario games anymore. As a Mario fan myself, I love every Paper Mario games but except for Sticker Star because that's the ONLY bad game. And I have nothing against the Modern Paper Mario styles either. Now that the Paper Mario TTYD Remake is been announced, I think everyone should be chill out for once and stop with the toxicity.
I am a paper mario newcomer, origami king will be my first game that I have played and from what I have seen of that game, it looks spectacular, 10 out of 10. But I have barely seen anyone on RUclips that says origami king is their favorite paper mario game and I do feel like i am the only person who thinks origami king is the best. And when you showed the thumbnail to that video, I was like " ok that is the literal definition of bashing out on the modern games". And some people can't even look past the fact that they didn't get a true sequel to ttyd. One really good example of this characteristic is Arlo, he is so incredibly biased that he couldn't even call the origami king a solid game because origami king lacked RPG elements and creativity and it wasn't the return-to-form that people expected. So what i am trying to say is 5hat TTYD fans are the most annoying part of the fan base
Paper Mario Community is extremely toxic. I just made a Tier List of the Mario RPG games that I've played and I sent identical ones to both Mario and Luigi Community and the Paper Mario Community and legit a week later, mods removed the Paper Mario post due to the toxic behavior of the community. I truly believe Nintendo revealed the TTYD remake purely for 1 reason and 1 reason only. To shut those entitled and spoiiled TTYD brats up. Nintendo legit just said "here is TTYD HD, now shut the fuck up" My Paper Mario Ranking currently is TOK > PM64 > SPM > PMSS > TTYD -------(PMCS) and the only reason why TTYD is super low is due to how Toxic the community is. The Mario and Luigi Community doesn't even have to deal with this sort of crap. Even if Alphadream was shut down, I still see how the Mario and Luigi community treats those with different options. I dare anyone to make a Tier list and not put TTYD on S-Tier and watch how these toxic Paper Mario fans react.
Paper Mario fans are f’d up for sure. But TO BE COMPLETELY fair, the Mario and Luigi series never strayed away from their formula where modern paper Mario games are vastly different from the original. I say this as a Mario and Luigi fan. Also ranking TTYD so low solely based on the fandom is something toxic paper Mario fans would say about modern paper mario. My favorite paper Mario game is Origami King and I think TTYD if overrated but it’s still a great game. Don’t be petty like the toxic TTYD fans.
I love the classic games yes we got bad apples but some of you modern fans are not perfect either yah attack me because I was skeptical about the origami King when it first got announced
The battle system and boss battles in Origami King are absolute CRAP. Nobody wants to line up some damn rings to be able to attack. And nobody wants office supplies as Bosses. Let alone the fact that you have to form a path to the boss using the rings to even damage it. BUT besides the battle system and bosses, the rest of it wasn't too bad. I wish it had more unique characters and original characters and more races besides Toads but I did enjoy having to find the Origami Toads. However it is sad when finding hidden Origami Toads and solving puzzles is the most enjoyment I get out of the game. For Color Splash I didn't like the battle system either and the only part I liked was painting in the spots that had missing color. 😭
Look i dont hate sticker star, color splash or origami king the only thing i never liked was the complex puzzles, bosses whit higher hp, no original characters, heck even no real partners up to the chapter final boss ... ... ... ... Olivia was the closest thing i got.. and bobby too 😭
Why not, people have the right to be critical. You don't need to like everything to be a fan. I like SpongeBob but, I haven't seen the show past season 5-6. I think Classic fans are probably the biggest fans, they were through it all. If you see your favorite game change it's identity yet, you still wait patiently for it to return. It says a lot.
This is proving the point of the video. You don't need to be a fan of anything, and you should be allowed to call out what you don't like. If it for some reason has an effect on you, you are welcome to just ignore the discussion.
I personally dislike paper mario TTYD, and I haven't even played it. Why?. well, because of the fandom itself not shutting up about it, I got tired of seeing it be fanboyed everywhere so I didn't even think of giving it a chance. that's just how the fandom is.
Man this shit just happens in everything It's just something we all sane people have to ignore and look at in disgust, I should know I'M IN THE SONIC FANBACE
The thing that's funny to me right, is that pretty much every Sonic game has a group of people that despises it, loves it, or anything in between. I feel like on the whole at the very least because of the sheer amount of differing opinions, it's harder for there to be as distinctive of a line drawn as this situation. Like, being a Sonic fan you kinda just except that people like or dislike stuff that you do. I guess like with there being fewer Paper Mario games than Sonic games, there is more of a harsh "them or us" divide that surpasses even discussing the games themselves. For sure, the same type of stuff does happen with Sonic though, lol.
@@powerfullpummel6417 @cheesehead302 yeah the Sonic community has chilled out a lot but back in 2002 and especially 2010 was almost as bad mediocre game after mediocre game a huge part of the fan base wanting to return to adventure style but not getting shit not to mention the fucking writing all in all every fan base has ups and downs I have no doubt the Sonic fan base will get even more toxic than it ever has before in the future and so will the paper Mario fan base 😐 It's like a pendulum It always gets worse and always gets better
@@alexthebluehermit Yeahhh I guess, that's thing. A lot of the classic vs modern discourse has died off and is nowhere near as crazy as it was closer to 2010. Probably because of the release of Mania to be honest. It's totally a cyclical thing for most spaces. I don't know if there will ever truly be a point where most people agree on Paper Mario, it's just a strange situation where a company made something so intensely counter to what the majority was interested in and kinda doubled down with that in some aspects, that there will probably be people feeling bitter about it for years. It's a weird situation, honestly, you don't really see a developer be so intently focused on doing something in a way that is completely opposite of what most people want, seeing the massive fan reaction and everything, and then continue to do it. It's just so weird. And then you have the people that are new to the franchise in a weird spot, everything about it is just so bizarre honestly. Nintendo is just a completely strange company some times.
@@Cheesehead302 companies do decisions like that all the time like again Sonic did Sonic boom and double down on it and got fucked over because of it so did Nintendo with the Wii u, hell movies even do it too like Ghostbusters 2016 companies that aren't private are more likely to do bullshit brain damaged things
I personally dislike paper mario TTYD, and I haven't even played it. Why?. well, because of the fandom itself not shutting up about it, I got tired of seeing it be fanboyed everywhere so I didn't even think of giving it a chance. that's just how the fandom is.
I personally dislike paper mario TTYD, and I haven't even played it. Why?. well, because of the fandom itself not shutting up about it, I got tired of seeing it be fanboyed everywhere so I didn't even think of giving it a chance. that's just how the fandom is.
Definitely give the TTYD remake a shot. If you enjoyed the modern games, you’ll highly enjoy TTYD. Don’t let some toxic people on the internet prevent you from enjoying a great game. I personally enjoyed all the paper mario games
At this point I’ve kinda just stopped caring about this whole situation and just enjoy the good parts. I ain’t gonna let a bunch of random people on the internet ruin a remake of one of my favorite games. But god I wished we didn’t have to go though this all over again
One thing that I'm the most concerned about with the TTYD remake, is that if we ever do get a new Paper Mario game that's just like the first two, and it turns out to be actually great, there might be a chance that some folks will say "It's still not as good as TTYD."
Well that will be Nintendo’s fault then
@@a.3160 More like the fault of overhyped fans that set their expectations way too high, or hold TTYD on a pedestal and worship it like a deity.
I love the game as much as the next PM fan, but the amount of love some people give TTYD is borderline unhealthy.
I mean, if said game is genuinely lackluster, then you can't blame people for saying TTYD is better. :P
Sure, some people will always cling to TTYD out of nostalgia, but this new game will have to be genuinely fantastic first, before anyone can accuse anyone of bias.
Key term being "as good". At least they'd be acknowledging that the new title strived to be in the same tier as TTYD. I call that comparison a win.
Seems like a mischaracterization of most fan's complaints. The gripe isn't usually that the sequels suffered a drop in quality, but that the gameplay, which is what they fell in love with, changed so drastically as the series progressed.
It really is up to the fanbase to foster a change for the better in the PM community.
Do you guys want to continue being neckbeards, taking any and every opportunity to attack each other for the sake of clout or to have a "win"? Or can we learn to accept opinions, be excited for the remake, and work towards repairing the damage built over 10 years?
This video is on point.
the forced love on sticker star games like TOK, and CS who basically enjoy shit games can have them for all I care just give people who actually enjoy good games a choice problem solved lmaoo😂
@@niteriemcfarlane5285Honestly I think it's mostly nostalgia the small group of fans have for Sticker because it's not rocket science I think to know why that game is the black sheep of this spin off series.
true
Ok, but I didn't like sticker star or color splash or origami king (it was too different) and people will be disappointed if extram changes are made to a game that a lot of people liked. The truth is we wanted more games like paper Mario 64 and ttyd and Nintendo didn't deliver, now that we get another chance most people don't want to mess it up.
@@courtneycherry5582 Yeah it's honestly a head scratcher why Tanabe the replacement director for this series after Kawade left to work on the Fire-Emblem series would gut so much that worked about this series simply from a suggestion Miyamoto gave out or a flawed Nintendo power question essay about SPM having apparently 1% liking it's story which is very much hard to believe if you ask most gamers who played that game and apparently before Sticker was even released Miyamoto said that game was boring like ouch😖.
I'm not gonna judge anyone for preferring modern PM to Classic PM, they just aren't games that appeal to me at all.
I need my Mario RPGs to be full of creative character designs that play off of and expand the Mario universe in fun ways.
Which just happens to be what TTYD was very good at.
So I'm just happy the game is being remade and I hope the next new game will follow in its footsteps.
They're essentially adventure games instead of RPG's like the first 3. I personally really enjoyed OK for what it was and the same story applied to a ttyd/SPM game could easily be the best game in the series.
Hey, I hear you. I do hope we get a TOK sequel with more classic traits. I love TOK and I grew up with the classics.
@@RidingADream2004 As long as it's without the ring battles. I just can't deal with those.
As someone whos a fan of Origami King, one thing Im sick of hearing is people complaining about the paper aesthetic. I get it, its not what the old games had and therefore bad. But a series called Paper Mario should be allowed to utilize the paper theme. Origami King is an objectively flawed game and I can accept valid criticism but I just get sick of hearing the same rehashed bs about it being too paper focussed
i think sticker star being on the 3ds was the thing that saved it from being the tipping point. most fans probably just saw it as a handheld paper mario "spin off" (ik its a full game) type of game. color splash kind of just confirmed that it was not that and this was the direction
Nah nah, Color Splash seems MILES better than Sticker Star
@@rikustorm13 miles is pushing it. I’d say the gap from CS and origami king is bigger than the gap between sticker star and CS
No wonder during the past the hatred can hardly be felt compared to now.
I personally hate the people who lump everyone together as a single toxic fanbase the most.
On both sides it are such small minorities that are being toxic, I find it so annoying when people talk about the few bad apples as the entire fandom. Same thing happens with Pokemon
I would rather have people overpraise TTYD even tho most folks exaggerate that statement over reddit fandom of modern paper Mario games who refuse to acknowledge those games flaws and defend them as if their lives depend on it like crazy sociopaths dat kill others just for not liking same thing as they do 😭💀👻
That's like every fanbase. Everyone talks about fandoms like they are constituted entirely by the toxic minority.
@@ultimatesora4467 No no no. It is not a fact. Wanna know why you think that? Because the toxic individuals are the ones who get all the attention. Most fans in any fanbase are just chill people who wanna have a good time, THOSE people make up a big chunk of the fanbases, but they don't gain much attention and are overshadowed by the toxic ones.
@@ultimatesora4467 What?
@@niteriemcfarlane5285 you know that some older game stans also send threats to others for liking certain games in the series right ? Both sides are at fault on that bud
I understand people being hard on the newer games before the remake, somewhat. There's this feeling that you have to hate on the games so that Nintendo might hear you and take the series in a new direction. It's still bad to actually attack people for liking the new ones, but I can see how people might be threatened by games like The Origami King doing so well and getting such a good reception.
...That being said, that's not a problem anymore, so... XD You can't even use that excuse. Cool it down, older fans.
yea but that makes sense if a game developer changed my favorite series and got rid of everything i loved like Hell i’m going to complain about it we have every right to complain about the new direction it’s not about being a bad game it’s about taking Everything We Loved About The Series And Throwing It Away we wanted to like the new games but when they keep missing certain stuff that we loved about the old games it makes sense why we’d hate the new games so damn much thank god for this ttyd remake as i have hope for paper mario again seriously i boycotted origomi king for bug fables because at least it had the core elements that i loved from ttyd the origomi didn’t have those so obviously i’m gonna boycott it for the game that has what i’m actually looking for in paper mario
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The Paper Mario community is two entirely different fandoms living under the same roof. I'm unfortunately not sure if there's a solution to that other than to try and find a balance.
agreed i really thought after the ttyd remake was announced that just like the original poster on the video said why would they be fighting still i thought it would calm everything down too as we all have our games now so there’s no reason to fight unfortunately other people think differently
First come first serve. Those who came after are just squatters
unless someone makes a Paper Mario fangame that combines the aspects of both classic and modern games in a way that it can be the most enjoyable gaming experience.
Personally, I wished Nintendo did something just like what I said that the whole Paper Mario fanbase can truly enjoy.
@@NoahTurbo_that would be hard, since old fans like basically nothing that Nintendo added to the new games
This is true, and looking at this video 10 months later, it's true...
I've legit seen people say that they hope that Paper Mario becomes more bland and generic just to make classic fans feel like change is even more hopeless for this series, and like, speaking as someone who believes that Sticker star is the only TRULY bad game in the franchise and every other game both before and after it have plenty of aspects that make them fun and enjoyable experiences, i understand getting mad at people for being extremely harsh on a game you didn't think was that bad, or even that you loved, or was your very first video game so you have a lot of fun memories with it, that is still maybe a little bit excessive. I believe that a future Paper Mario game can absolutely please everyone if they learn from this TTYD remake while also not choosing to throw their previous three games in the trash, there is a golden opportunity here to finally, like Origami king tried so hard to do but was held back from doing, please as much of the fanbase as can possibly be pleased here. But it does genuinely feel sometimes like there are people in the community who only like the newer games because they specifically want Mario to be bland and boring and thing it's best for Nintendo to go out of their way to make people who want Mario to be creative and inventive suffer as much as is humanly possible. Like unlike the people who genuinely like Color splash and Origami king and are willing to be civil towards classic fans, there is just a subset of fans that don't actually care about those games and just like them because they hate Mario being unique and imaginative because it makes a subset of people on the internet they find a little bit annoying happy and they'd rather that all the more civil and non toxic people who want Paper Mario to have it's own identity be forced to deal with it too just so the annoying ones can suffer too and Mario be a stagnant, sanitized series for the rest of all time.
As a reminder, i do agree that some classic fans, more than likely and equal amount to the toxic new fans, can be toxic as well, so don't get me wrong, i've seen plenty of needlessly toxic stuff from both sides, it's just that one tweet that said that they wanted the series to become as bland and flavorless as possible for the sake of dunking on TTYD fans stuck with me in a unique way. I saw some people get a little too excited at the TTYD reveal myself and use it as a chance to be unnecessarily heated towards the newer games to a degree that made me uncomfortable or just being edgy for edgy's sake, but i don't want the entire series and all the fans of TTYD who gave the modern games a shot to be dragged down just to "OWN" this small, albeit loud, subset of people who's disdain for the modern games can come off as a bit intense. Those people can do what they want. The best thing to do in this scenario is just ignore them and enjoy the things you wanna enjoy.
If you are someone who has only played one of the last three games and loved them, that's awesome, and i just wanna say, if you're on the fence about TTYD, i legitimately would suggest giving it a shot. I think that game has a lot of elements seen in the Origami king that you may really love. You don't have to put down sixty bucks for it, i'm not saying that, but what i am saying is that i hope everyone keeps and open mind and is willing to hear this game out because i feel like we can all have our cakes and eat them too here, we can all come to an agreement and finally get the game that bridges the TTYD/Origami king gap if this game sells well. We can get a fun beginners RPG with fun characters and unique locations that still has a lot of the same hilarious writing, fun world exploration and puzzle solving of the recent games if we all set aside our differences.
This is exactly how I’ve been feeling about the Paper Mario fan base for a while now. While PM classicists suck, I feel like nowadays, I see more people complaining about them than I do actual classicists.
I think one of the things that gets me right, is the idea that by simply being critical or not liking specific games is considered by people on Twitter as "toxic." It kinda infuriates me when I see people say, look how toxic these people are repeatedly hating on this thing that I like, they're a bunch of babies. I won't be gaslit into thinking that simply having an opinion on a thing can be considered toxic, it's just dumb. I hate that the discussion can be twisted depending on the point of view of the person reading it, like, so many out there will see "Paper Mario fans are so toxic" and immediately correlate this with the idea that it is because they are complaining about not liking something, when in reality, the true toxicity is those that are putting other's down for their specific views. I'll say it again: I do not care what somebody's opinion is on the franchise, no matter how counter to mine it may be, you are entitled to your opinion that's just how it works. But when I see people trying to write off me or others for simply expressing their opinion, that's when it crosses the line for me. I can't stand the generalizations and outright lies I've seen about other's perspectives over the years, a lot of hoop jumping to make individuals sound like they have no credibility when just engaging with them for any amount of time often shows that no, they just have a perfectly reasonable opinion on the games. With the amount of insane stuff I've seen thrown at Arlo for example, if you were an outsider to the discussion you'd be surprised that his videos on the topic are extremely in depth breakdowns of such things as gameplay elements and concepts.
I just want people to be normal and talk about my favourite game with people... but just yesterday my "controversial take" was the backtracking didnt hurt TTYD very much and it helped level my then new to RPGs sister and was a good learning experience for newer players, because grinding isn't something a casual player will think to do with limited play time.
And then someone just started attacking me "oh, so you have a low opinion of others?" "Why dont you think backtracking and grinding can exist together."
Unlike when the original released, I am old now... if someone goes to personal attacks when I talk about a game that brings me happiness, im going to tell them "bye" and not interact. But man alive was their reading comprehension bad, jumping to conclusions like Olympic competitors.
"I like TTYD's backtracking because it helped my sister who's new to RPG's level up without having to grind, because she wouldn't have thought to do so otherwise since she's new to the genre and thus doesn't have a more firm grasp on the dynamics of RPG's"
"you're an ignorant and elitist twat"
sounds about right for excessively diehard fans.
If you're wondering how I found this video, recommendations exist. Unlike you, I'm not counting on people making their opinions based off of nothing but a one-sided story. The internet is not a place to talk about people behind their backs as if you think they won't find out.
Edit: For people who want to know how the conversation REALLY went, check out their comment on SuperMarioT's "Changes I'd love in the Paper Mario Thousand Year Door Remake" video
@@AkameGaKillfan777 You are a mean person who argues in bad faith and twists words to the most ridiculous conclusion and uses that to attach people... I will talk to who I want and where I want about my experiences, I never mentioned you by name so everyone could be normal should they choose to; but you decided to expose yourself and prove my point.
I told you once and I'll tell you again... you are mean and not worth my time, conversations over. Bye
@@AkameGaKillfan777 LMAO, it went exactly like OP said. Can't you just be normal? Get a life stalker
@@inurare Why should I "get a life" when they can't get over what I said? Practice what you preach.
Do I have "bad reading comprehension," or is it their refusal to revise or restate their comments if they think I misread it?
I loved Origami King, its probably one of my favorite games on the switch. I had Sticker Star as a kid but i dont remember much about it. Super hyped for the TTYD remake
Prepare to have your bar raised
@@_.-. Heh idk, I liked TTYD, didnt reach TOK levels of good
@@_.-.My heart was shattered after playing the original TTYD . You fans set the bar wayyyyy too high. The game is average at best
From my point of view, I don't get why Paper Mario has a fan base of its own, like it doesn't make sense. Even though Paper Mario might be an alternate universe of the Mario universe, I still see them the same. Also, as a Mario fan of my own that also likes Paper Mario, I love all of the paper Mario games except for sticker star and I don't care for story changes that much. I'm technically on both Paper Mario sides, but truthfully I like the entire franchise as a whole.
I think now that thousand year door is finally coming out I think It should give the fan base a chance to finally chill out for ones and not be toxic anymore hopefully.
I honestly refuse to view Paper Mario's first three games as separate from the rest of the Mario universe. In my eyes, they are an expansion of the Mario lore, just shown off in a different artstyle. The later three are clearly a different universe, though.
Even if it's a different universe, I’d still view the Paper Mario fandom as a sub fandom of the overall Mario fandom, just more hostile than the rest of it.
@@mariobroultimate1808 Exactly and good point!
@@mariobroultimate1808it’s definitely separate from the mario universe thats one thing clear in the originals what with the curses in ttyd, the foreground background system in super, and just the way the universe is built mario and luigi games are far more fitting for the original universe, Unfortunately you also cant really say sticker star is separate from the first 3 as the game actually references previous characters in a garbage dump (I know that is extremely ironic considering the direction the series was going) theres thrown away letters from parakarry,a article by goombella and i can’t remember if they had more then that but at the very least every paper mario game shares the same universe i mean kammy is literally taped into the star spirit book in 64 we then of course battle this mafioso in origami king.
@@M64bros
I don't know to me Paper Mario has a different feel to Mainline Mario it's just something about that guy with his blank stare and his obsession with smacking everything with his hammer really separates him
@@powerfullpummel6417 The paper elements in the first time games were moreso gags than anything. You could cut them out and not much would change. I have a friend who made a version of TTYD's story that replaced the paper transformations with other features, such as a belt that would store each of Mario's partners.
The later three games on the other hand rely heavily on the paper aspect. That one garbage scene was clearly just the developers sneaking references underneath the IP team's noses. I could see there being two separate versions of each of the first three Paper Mario adventures. One version is the one canon to the main Mario world without the paper gags, and the other is the one canon to the Paper Mario world which is why they are referenced in the garbage dump and Peach's portraits in the Princess Peach.
Thank you for this video in showcasing that its not just "TTYD fans" as the problem. That's actually a major issue I have had with the "TTYD fans" claim for a long time because when you use the term fan, it is generalizing everyone in association. Not only that, while TTYD is my favorite PM game with TOK right after (My ranking goes TTYD, TOK, 64, CS, RPG, SS) it is so strange to me how TTYD seems to invoke this kind of mud-slinging from the community, I don't think I have ever seen a remake of a game get THIS much controversy and drama upon just a simple release trailer. I also feel it is rather gatekeeping to tell people they don't deserve a game, especially when said fans just do it as an excuse about their game not getting the remake. This even goes into a bigger issue, I use to dedicate my Twitter to refuting these claims fans had but stopped because it got too toxic! In fact, I have distanced myself from this fanbase entirely, because of how awful it is, especially when it comes to TTYD. I just talk about it either in your server or just with friends, as community interaction just amounts to "Hottake here's my thoughts on said game" which either amounts to their own personal PM game bias, or just use it as an excuse to bash TTYD. There was also this weird shift from fans who wanted the TTYD remake, to now saying they don't want it because their game deserves it yet complain about TTYD all the time. So, you don't want a remake that can potentially fix those issues? Or not even give a chance for people who don't have the broadest access to it?
TBH I find the hate toward TTYD in recent times to be FAR more toxic and echo chambery than those who harass newer fans. Because up till this remake, I would literally see posts on Reddit like every month of people complaining about TTYD in some way, to the point EVERY single thing about the game has some kind of controversial or hated aspect, and its like one thing to point out flaws in a game because you want to voice something you feel doesn't get voiced, then just turning complaints into an echo chamber that gets repeated over and over and over again. At that point, it just becomes obnoxious and repetitive. And it isn't just modern fans, even 64 elitists and Bleck Knights (SPM extremists) have become toxic in hating TTYD as well, when this whole "TTYD fans" thing, only comes from it being considered the best game. (I honestly find them to be worse extremists than so-called "TTYD fans" because they get much more defensive and toxic about their respective game yet criticize people who do the same to TTYD) Yet anyone who likes TTYD will NEVER say they hate either game. Meanwhile, fans make a point to state that no game is a masterpiece yet hold their own game up to the same regard they criticize TTYD for. (Hell up until this remake announcement I found more people complaining about TTYD than fans harassing Modern fans who liking modern titles) It's to the point where I've seen fans bring up TTYD when it had nothing to do with the conversation of said PM game, just to turn it into a Vs war between their game and TTYD, mostly just to complain about it. And to me, I find it jarring to say every element of the game annoys you but still cling onto a particular element to say you like it, to me that feels as if you're creating an abusive relationship with a game in which the entire point is to entertain the player. It's also just the annoying trend of gamers just making videos to bash games by saying "Why X game isn't perfect" when its just an amalgamation echo chamber of the same complaints everyone else has just begun repeating in repetitive video form, Pokemon fans are especially egregious about this.
I literally couldn't go anywhere, on Discord or Reddit or even RUclips at times without seeing hate or complaining about TTYD in some way. I also don't like this image the community (or others in general) sets where they base a game's reputation as something, even when that rep has long since changed to the degree they say. Like people still claim SPM is underrated, yet nobody in 2023 (going on 2024) would say its a bad game or criticize it to the same degree, yet fans still use that same perceived notion to create this victim complex toward the game, its like the Ocarina of Time situation, where just because it was considered the "best game ever" that's the basis people USE to judge it, when in reality you get the opposite discourse or opinions just on average, even if I myself hold it as my favorite Zelda and consider Twilight Princess the worst 3D Zelda.
I have made it a thing to just not take Twitter seriously anymore, they'll complain about anything to turn anything into a warzone. I'm not saying TTYD is a perfect game, no game is, which is why the "No game is perfect" statement in videos bug me because like yeah, there is no perfect game, if you find a flaw in a game, then it isn't perfect. I also find there is nothing wrong with considering a game perfect as long as you aren't being toxic about it. At the end of the day, like whatever PM game you like or dislike what you like, just don't use them as an excuse to be Jerkasses toward on another.
These fandoms with so many different games are beyond canceruos, the soul series, Mario, hell, the Zelda fanbase is making me seriously consider never interacting with another fandom
Your first mistake was using twitter. Your second mistake was being in a "fandom". Stick to your close friends and game together. Isn't that what it used to be when the internet was not widely available? Id follow this advice for keeping your mental health as I did.
Also, if you care about people having this much toxicity OVER A VIDEO GAME then I really recommend taking a break and a breather to focus on yourself to understand that your opinions, your likes, your favorites all matter and that your friends and others can/do care about you.
All of this may be true but you should ignore it all and focus on yourself. That is what matters: you. This whole modern internet social media song and dance of stigma and clout is damaging your mental health. Please, just enjoy what you enjoy and dont let anyone tell you else.
@@yonderalt2662 I have already been doing that for a couple months now, I don't actively engage. I just wanted to get my thoughts out here since nobody ls touches on this topic in detail. And by engaging with friends, I don't just mean RL, but online too.
Finally someone points it out, I'm getting really tired of people saying that SPM is "underrated" when it really isn't. If anything, it's tied with TTYD with being the most loved Paper Mario game at this point in time.
@@kirbytheartist3318 I honestly find SPM the most overrated game, I even find the story to not be as good as people say, despite it being the best part about the game. It's just very flawed otherwise.
These people really be drawing Modern and Classic Paper Mario characters killing each other while I just draw them as buddies
Explaining the paper Mario fandom split is like explaining the Israel Palestine conflict
missed opportunity to use fort francis as the background footage
Nintendo fans arguing over the gender of a pink ghost:
🤓🤡
Super is my favorite Paper Mario, but I've always wanted to play TTYD. So glad its getting a remake.
Same
The Paper Mario community is easily one of the most horrendous communities I've ever been a part of from both sides of the fanbase. It's hard to say anything without being absolutely dogpiled no matter if it's on Twitter, Reddit, or even just a small discord server. As a CS and TOK enjoyer, I remember being pretty young and having my first "kys" for even liking it. I would have always argued that it's that side that was the worst, but the modern side has become way more insufferable lately. Even people who are reasonable will often argue in bad faith (ie. "the devs are just have a big ego" or "nothing in ttyd was ever made of paper ever" or "erm actually cs does have exp there's hammer scraps it's the exact same thing for sure"). My old CS videos are super duper cringe because I was on the defensive and I was pretty bad faith in them. I will say, the majority of people I've interacted with in terms of TTYD fans talking to me about me liking the modern games have absolutely not been respectful, and I would say it's the minority that has actually been reasonable. But I don't that's indicitive of the fanbase as a whole, I think that's because I'm a content creator and the people who are gonna be shouting to be heard are probably going to have more extreme opinions.
I think what doesn't help is that nobody actually has anything to add to the conversation and it's just whining about the same things. I feel like every 2 months a new video essay comes out on Sticker Star that adds absolutely nothing to the conversation and looks for things to complain about. Chuggaa's series is an example of one that I'd consider good, adds to the conversation, and criticises elements fairly without actively looking for things to complain about. But generally, I think that's just the Nintendo and probably gaming community as a whole. Just quite a bit worse than average. I stopped looking at Nintendo discourse as much as I can and damn my mental health is so much better haha. I remember I offhandedly mentioned in my TTYD reaction that it was my least favourite in the series and damn some of the comments I got were absurd lmao.
I think it will improve when modern fans actually play TTYD. I feel like a lot of them haven't tried it or seen just how much depth the battling has. 2016 me getting mad in the comments was one of those people haha.
Wait, do I have to read all that?!😰
@@PoyoDreamerTLDR: The Paper Mario fanbase sucks ass and keeps arguing about the same things, Chugga's did an actually good analysis on the entire series, and hopefully now that we have a more accessible remake of TTYD, everyone can finally shut up and be friends.
Ive encountered so many toxic fans it made me dread the ttyd remake more then be hopeful for it. Some people trying to argue with me over just liking SPM more, the gif search is literally full of anti spm gifs is how silly this garbage has gotten.
I honestly think that TTYD fans are the most annoying because they hate the modern games and bash them out
modern fans are toxic too they was attackin people when the remake of ttyd got announce
@@mgmboy3778Well tbf, he did say he thinks TTYD fans are more annoying, he never said moderns weren’t annoying
@@gboogie3257 jus saying tho ??
@@mgmboy3778 Yeah I know, wasn’t saying you were incorrect
I blame Nintendo overall .One thing I could say is the modern fans are not Angels either they be trolling and doing the exact same thing what the classic fans does
I feel like it’s that both sides dont try to understand the other. Old fans have some fans have valid criticisms about the modern games but they sometimes are very hostile towards people who happens to like these games. On the other hand you have some modern fans who calls the old ones nostalgia blind or toxic without even asking themselves why they dont like the newer games. It’s ok to take a stance but I wish that both side would act debate calmly instead of constantly attacking each other.
I used to be someone who was only on the modern side as my first game was color splash and then I played TOK. I gave 64 a try and genuinely loved it but I would have done it sooner had the fanbase not made me feel as if im wrong for enjoying the new games. The main issue is people not letting others enjoy things Im glad that TOK was able to sorta bridge the gap a bit for many though.
I've seen such an insane amount of people on twitter completely write off the idea of even trying older titles because of the discourse, absolutely insane to me when we're talking about games that have been universally praised since release, when this new vs old conversation wasn't even an idea yet. It's gotta be some insane level of mental gymnastics to stop yourself from playing what are by most accounts quality experiences only because of petty Internet discourse.
@@Cheesehead302 it’s because its associated with those toxic fans I think it’s fair for someone to claim that they cant see themselves playing a game if they keep being told that they’re wrong for enjoying something. A less toxic way to go about it would be saying “If you liked the new ones YOULL LOVE TTYD!” Or something along those lines
Thing is, There are good aspects of the new games, even if I heavily prefer the RPG style. It would be great if the vocal parts of the fanbase tried to be understanding of the other's views. Even if IMO the old games are better overall, I think it could borrow specific aspects of the new games to be the best it can.
@@powerfullpummel6417 I disagree honestly. Fair I guess but imagining myself not playing say og Sonic games or something because the discourse between the modern and classic fans back in the day seems a little ridiculous. You're free to think whatever you want I guess, it's just video games.
One thing I can say about the Paper Mario community is that toxicity isn't even exclusive to it, there are so many fanbase that I'm part in and every single one of them has their own toxic fans running rampant, seeing these kind of fans are annoying and exhausting to be around with!
I swear, everytime I want to tell my own opinions on any related subjects, I could receive countless heinous comments and death threats to the point that I don't want to be associated with the fandom that I would not longer be a part in anymore due to how upset, disappointed and depressed I would become!
I just wished that conversations in fan communities were civil and that everyone respected each other's opinions!
I'm a classic Paper Mario fan myself, and never once have I been toxic to anyone in the fandom man. I'm also someone who really loved Origami King a lot with how dark it got. The only game I legit didn't like was obviously Sticker Star, but even that game had a few small good moments here and there. I'm a huge fan of TTYD, and I'm super excited for the remake, but I'm just sad that some of the fandom has this foolish belief about the franchise at times... 😓
(I kinda wish you showed some more examples of people saying some of these things on sites like T w i t t e r though. Because while I'm not doubting their existence... we kinda just have to go off of your word, which as someone who cares about evidence, is kinda an issue for me. Also, nitpicking admittedly, but the pauses between each line could have been edited out or something man, because they only make the video a bit of a slog at times. Not hating you or anything man, these are just some issues I have with this video is all.)
Im still hoping for a super paper Mario remaster
It was my first Paper Mario and my favorite so yeah I can’t wait for eventually we get that
@@owenbridgers same
I’m a Paper Mario veteran. I grew up with PM 64 and played all Paper Mario games. Yes, I don’t really like SPM, PMSS, PMCS and I have loved PM64 and PMTOK. I wish the TTYD crybabies stopped for once. It is super toxic and I have withdrawn with the drama. Paper Mario is getting better, TOK was awesome and even though I am a tad disappointed for the remake, I’m happy that the Paper Mario series is getting better. But the fan base is super toxic 😅
I enjoy all paper Mario games, but I don’t want to call my self a paper Mario fans because of… well.
As someone who’s played The Most are not Modern 2 (CS *Currently replaying* and TOK) and The 2 Classic ones (64 and TTYD *currently playing* ) it’s hard find anyone who enjoys all games like I do
Sheesh. I knew this community can be toxic at times. But this is an whole new level. Some people just don't understand why these games; specifically the first 2 Paper Mario games ( or with some, first 3 Paper Mario games if u want to count Super ) are so special and great to begin with. They have unique story/plot, interesting characters, lore and most importantly, an fun gameplay that it's known for. The fact some people don't get that and why the modern Paper Mario games failed to capitalized really pisses me off.
The problem is that you basically CAN'T like the modern 3, because they are talked into dirt.
It's called PAPER MARIO. of course its gonna focus more on the Mario world.
origami peak
@@cloverkip peak shidd
@@TopTierGamerMan there's a reason why they're talked into dirt, you just haven't figured it yet
@@nobodyinparticular9640 they aren’t that bad to get the shit they do.
I love this series, and I see both sides. My first game was SPM. (So, the things I loved about it wasn’t the pure rpg stuff).
My view was always I’d prefer it to go back to the original style, but what we were getting, I’d much rather have that than nothing at all, which is what I was worried might happen.
I don’t approve of toxicity from either side. It did hurt to see a RUclipsr who I viewed as someone who had the ability to see the good in less popular games just basically abuse the modern ones, like a blanket hate. I understand not preferring them, or even not liking them, but can’t you be a bit less abusive about it? They still have good stuff in them, like, lots of things that are really enjoyable.
My hope is that modern fans will see what it is about the classics people like, and that classic fans, now that their games are getting time in the spotlight, they can see what it is that people like about them.
Isn’t that reasonable?
yea it’s kinda reasonable but at this point in time certain people are in the series for completely different reasons don’t get me wrong i would love to have the sniffit or wiffit game in a ttyd style game it’s actually something i loved about sticker star the series is kinda like sonic and atelier now and there are people who are there for different reasons not that it’s our fault i’m a modern atelier fan and a classic paper mario fan but i honestly couldn’t even play the old atelier games since i fell in love with atelier because of the jrpg mechanics from the ryza trilogy and was honestly livid when the old fan got a return to form because its not what made me fall in love with atelier and the same applies to paper mario the problem is that the old rpg and jrpg style of atelier games share the same name at this point it wouldn’t matter if it was the greatest rpg of all time it’s not what us jrpg atelier fans were there for
Paper Mario can be whatever it wants as long as it's *good*
I wouldnt have it any other way.
I love Color Splash.
I love TTYD
I tolerate Origami King
Super made me cry (in a good way)
and I havent yet finished 64 but its fun
just because one game was bad doesnt mean I have to throw piss baby fits, and I should have realized that a lot sooner
what is your opinion on sticker star lmao
@@trenth.7053 it sucks. everything about the world and puzzle design is anti-speedrunner, anti-casual gamer, and anti-repeat-playthrough. the formula can work, though, Color Splash proves that, Baten Kaitos and Mega Man Battle Network proved that a long time ago
Agreed. SPM is the worst, glad to see another hater
@@CassiusStelar The thing is that there are only 3 Paper Mario games that are good, which are 64, TTYD, and SPM. The rest are horrible.
I guess it depends on your perspective, what if I think more than one game was bad? Honestly kinda missing the point here, you should be tolerating other peoples' views on the games instead of discounting them. That being said, I agree, I don't care what gameplay style Paper Mario is so long as its built on solid mechanics, and makes an effort to have interesting world and characters. If there's something that I think is just lame or unnecessary game design, though, I'll totally call it out.
I do still think if Nintendo sticks with the classic Paper Mario formula the fan base will unite in the long run. 90% of the modern fans will like/love the TTYD remake and won’t mind if the series continues in the classic direction. Part of this is Nintendo’s fault for continually drastically changing the direction (genre even) of the series, so of course the fan base will be divided/ toxic. Personally I enjoyed all the games (even sticker star), however I do greatly prefer the classic style (64 and TTYD)
It's okay to like or dislike a game, personally I think the Paper Mario Franchise as a whole is pretty overrated from all angles, with the game I've enjoyed the most being Super Paper Mario, since the platforming and story telling was an interesting combination, and the unique take of 3D linear and non-linear platforming was a fresh experience, the more RPG combat style of the rest of the Paper Mario games aren't my forte as a general disdain towards the "Helplessly take damage" style that plagues nearly all RPG's with that design, hence why I personally felt like the "Mario and Luigi" RPG series was so innovative and my preference for Mario RPG's (man I really want that series to return by more than just remasters, they were so awesome!), while there's something out there for everyone to enjoy, that doesn't mean everyone has to enjoy it, and that is perfectly fine! Just don't hate someone who likes something else.
I never really played TTYD but when it dose come out I want to try it out myself. I love all of the paper Mario series with each installment it made it intresting to play. my first ever paper Mario game is Super paper Mario, then the modern games. I cant wait for the remake so that I can play it and have a good time with it,
This reminds me of when the Sonic fandom had the crazy classic vs modern shit. Nowadays you barely see it because Sega have been treating both sides for a while now. It’s literally the same thing here, however Genesis does what Nindendo’t for better or worse.
i agree with you it was the same with sonic too i left the modern games after lost world because i prefer the classic ones, its the same with paper mario now that both sides are getting games everything's fine the problem is that the classic fans weren't getting anything until bug fables same with me with sonic until mania and sonic exe yes that even satisfied my classic sonic itch fight me about it. You can only be a fan of a series that has a consistent genre like the mario and luigi series, and the 2d kirby series ps. some people even like them all but most people including myself can only like certain types.
I don’t think we deserve Nintendo and the switch in general because many fans are ungrateful and take what they do for granted
People are traumatized. Hurt people, hurt people.
Thats rough Buddy..
The internet is full of drama. Its best to just not find yourself in the middle of it. If you find that someone starts attacking you, just ignore the person, and just move on with your life. At the end of the day, you're essentially dealing with cults lol
meanwhile there's me who likes all 6 games
Hello! I like 4 of them!
They’re the only ones I’ve played
I love TTYD and hate Sticker Star, but I don’t hate Sticker Star simply because “it’s not TTYD” or because “I can’t accept change”. I had no trouble accepting Super as a good game when it came out and still like it today, and Origami King is passable. Sticker Star isn’t bad because it’s different, it’s because the change was bad. Putting aside the lack of story and generic characters, from a gameplay standpoint it just doesn’t work. Battles serve no purpose beyond padding (or if you want to complete the museum, you could get a few enemy-specific stickers) because you don’t level up and you just loose the stickers you need to solve puzzles and fight required battles. In order to simply proceed you have to subject yourself to trial and error, fall down every sand pit until you find the one that doesn’t kill you, or strike a hidden block so you can jump across a flower before it becomes hazardous again, or jump down a waterfall that looks like it would be blocked off by an invisible wall, all to simply continue the game. Sticker Star isn’t worth defending in the slightest, even Shigeru Miyamoto thought the game was boring.
That said, this entire argument seriously needs to end. No more death threats, no more toxic modern fans trying to rain on everyone’s parade, no more toxic Classic fans throwing mindless shade at the modern fans. There are people out there who legitimately like all the games. It’s time to move on.
I haven’t seen any toxicity. And I’m unsure where it’s even found. I’ve only seen others just as excited for thousand year door
Side note- where can I find the autumn mountain battle theme that ends with the victory theme? Can’t find it on YT - I heard it in this video
It's a shame, the paper mario franchise is one of my favourites but I just never bother to get involved with the community anymore. I'm definitely more into the newer games as I don't have the nostalgia for the older ones. My first one was Super Paper Mario which I loved. In fact when playing Super Paper Mario I didn't even realise there were older paper mario games. Sticker Star I never played and thank god as it looks terrible. Colour Splash I liked a lot though and seemed to be a much more improved version of Sticker Star, and then Origami King is one of my favourite games of all time tbh. I love puzzle games so seeing that being the main element mixed with paper mario is my perfect game tbh.
Got a gamecube several years ago to finally see what the hype with TTYD is about, got about 2 hours in and never finished it. I just found it boring compared to what I'm used to. And even mentioning that online would make me feel bad for having an opinion. I'm definitely not one of the people who say 'TTYD fans don't deserve this remake', but at the same time I have trouble feeling happy for the TTYD fans just because what the community is like, but yeah not all fans are going to be toxic of course. I'll still give the remake a try, but I don't think any paper mario will beat Origami King for me
Hard agree! I wanna feel good for TTYD fans getting the remake but they make it so hard for me to feel good about them
A bad game as well as its criticism doesnt just disappear because people finally got something they wanted. The problems that upset people in the first place still exist so it should have been expected the hate would continue as it always has.
I still hate the notion that any toxic fan ruins a game when the two are unrelated. A games quality does not change because some guy gets annoyed about your stance behind it. Simply recognize why they are upset then go back to playing the game. Either side does not change the reality of what the game actually is.
I never understand how the most fun, happy, colourful games or tv shows can create the absolute worst fan bases 😂😂 I’m a MASSIVE paper Mario fan and I feel like even though I hold the “the old games were better” opinion, but I still don’t understand how you can be so mean and unnecessarily toxic about it
The Paper Mario fanbase is just one of the most toxic fanbases I've ever encountered in all my years of gaming (of course l'm only talking about the vocal fans as you mentioned). I've played every game so far and yeah, TTYD is my fav. game in the series aswell, and I didn't really enjoy SPM, Sticker Star and Color Splash. But that's just my opinion and if you enjoyed those games, I'm really happy for you! But here's the thing: I think that Origami King was a step in the right direction and I actually really enjoyed it. Sure, it's no TTYD but it's still pretty good imo. Many ppl just blindly hate on that game without even trying to see the good things about it. I feel like they just take the opinions from certain larger youtubers as facts (I won't name them but we all know who I'm talking about) without making their own opinions and that's a bit sad and unfair to me.
the red arlo meme is the most sane member of this community
I’m just going say that color splash is the best PM game .__.
7:08 this makes me pity the person who made this, the reasons literaly are the same reasons that people make about the newer games and they have nothing to do with the story at all.
I have played both sides, um, the biggest complaint i had was the change to limited attacks and the removal of badges, which let every game feel different and fun, but sticker star modding has started, so maybe there's hope for more people to have a better experience with that title
(and since i am last and gonna have a complaint about the remake: i honestly dislike some of the quality of life changes, i love the back sprites, i hate how i have to hammer everything and press a button for the pipes and it lags in the pit, but hey, that's me complaining because i liked the og version because it was my introduced to the fandom, sorry for this mini rant)
There are always going to be people who have opposite views, opinions, & behavior to your own. If it weren't for origami king, many of us may not have ever played TTYD or paper mario 64. I had never played a paper mario game before origami king & I like all 3. That said, why do we call all opposing arguments "toxic?" I mean, at the end of the day, the negative opinions & behavior have no power unless you give them power. Those people don't like the game. You win even if you say nothing. You have a game you enjoy, they don't. Why would these opinions matter to anyone who enjoys the game? Toxic? I think not. The only thing more embarrassing than publicly crying about how the new paper mario didn't make you happy, is publicly defending a Nintendo game as though it's some kind of underdog. Nintendo doesn't need the help & not every idea they have is going to be a zinger. People have a right to their opinions regardless of the level of "toxicity." America was founded on toxic opinions of living under British rule. "Toxic" opinions are always valid even when they're misguided & misinformed. How else do we learn, if not by expressing ourselves? Especially when we are wrong. Take a firm stance against opposing opinions, but don't just label them as "toxic." That destroys any valid arguments you may have because it suggests pretension in the speaker. Paper mario fans must realize they are a goofy group of folks. Don't they? Because if not, that's even funnier. 👍🏻☕️
I may love paper mario, the first three games are good but I just simply enjoy them for what they are. You don't have to be super obsessed with them, just enjoy them for what they are. Not worship them like a religion lol.
1. Those on both sides who attack each other personally are wrong. 2. You're looking at social media cesspool like Twitter and reddit, where hyperbole is king. 3. The new games tend to get more flack and derision because they are just more divisive. It's unavoidable fact that the new paper mario games fractured the fanbase more and more over time precisely because they are divisive. All this drama didn't happen until Super and even Super's detractors came to see it still felt like the older games even if it was very different gameplay-wise. But what aggravates the situation more is the devs' literally stated desire to kill the old rpg direction and deliberate tone-deaf messaging with regards to fan feedback/ creativity. This is rough, but it's not purely fan-created. The devs did not handle the VERY poor reception to their games well with regards to disappointed fans and PR. They kinda helped create this mess, with bad messaging and awful handling of the direction of the series that they wanted.
How tf does a community with only 6 FU#$ING ENTRIES manage to be so toxic?
The majority just come down brutally on CS, TOK, and god forbid you say anything positive about SS. They just defend TTYD and 64 ( SPM is in the middle ) with all their heart to the point you can't have an opinon about it that says anything negative.
It sucks, as someone who grew up with Color Splash and Origami King being my 2 favorite games, that I cant even say what I feel about each game without 20 comments saying
A. I didnt play the game
B. Im wrong
or
C. Modern Paper Mario sucks/ the first 2 are the only good ones.
Games? Consistently masterpieces. ( Except for ttyd and ss.) Community?
Ass.
"You didnt Play the Game" is my biggest pet peeve. Like they dont know them? And even If they are right they cant treat the minority like they know everything about them. And i See Here still some passive aggressive Statements to someone praising new Games Just to defend themselves when called Out. No respect. No self Reflection. No Balls to be confronted for idiotic behaviour dispite being Anonymous.
And i am Sure they also have a gaming Take a Lot of people would judge Them for..
I am just sad they didn't remake Paper Mario 64. I think the original TTYD still holds up graphically.
As an all Paper Mario games fan, I agree with this video.
Nothing more to hate Paper Mario are Paper Mario fans.
Reminder, that was before Fire Emblem fans hated Fire Emblem too.
All the toxic fans are the reason I barely play paper Mario anymore. I don't want to be thrown into a war for liking a specific game in the series. They're all fun games. If I like color splash or origami king, it shouldn't have to be a problem to other people or a reason to start an argument.
Nah cause even someone that likes TTYD can't say OK wasn't a good game to sit down and play.
All of them are fun games yup all 5 of them which all came out on consoles of course!
@@trenth.7053im confused are you saying that origami king was fun to play or are you saying it was boring?
@@powerfullpummel6417 Sticker Star can still kindly burn alive.
@@RaziOrSomething FR!!
"Guys listen to my paper mario hotakes!!" Every fucking paper mario opinion is a hottake which actuall cancels it out any there are no hottakes.
(Note: this message is not directed at the person who made this video)
As someone who genuinely enjoys all the paper mario games in the series (even sticker star to a degree), I don't really see why people can't just enjoy the things they do???? Like of course criticism can be a good thing but I just can't understand the mindset of getting legitimately angery at what other people think about a video game. I understand that you can be passionate about a game you love and that's great but let other people be passionate about the games they enjoy too and like, just be a reasonable human being idk.
Pardon the probing question, but do you consider Chuggaaconroy (one of the tweets you put in the thumbnail) in the category of "toxic paper mario fan"?
He does go too far sometimes but I wouldn't consider him a toxic fan because he doesn't harass other people and most of the stuff that he does with hating Sticker Star is mostly a part of his RUclips persona (even though he genuinely does hate it). He's also going through Sticker Star with his "Sticks it to Sticker Star" series and is fairly criticizing the game which I think is a decent way of approaching the game that's not just another repetitive rant about it. I just included that tweet in the thumbnail because his response to the TTYD remake spawned some controversy.
Hey I just want to state my favorite paper mario games without anyone comming to attack me
I've got Paper mario 64 for my birthday when i was 7 erm...8
And then i got Super paper Mario for Christmas
I loved them both
I never got the chance to play thousand year door until i got my own laptop and an emulator
I loved 64, TTYD, and SPM and I always refered to them as the original three, because they were amazing in their own ways
I got paper Mario sticker star for Christmas when I was 9 and it was pretty boring. First, I didn't really like backtracking, and I would run away from battles so often. Looking back, yeah it wasn't that amazing, because with the lack of XP what is the point, and how would you know if you had the right "things" for the boss fights?
Also if you ran out of stickers in the fights, especially boss fights your screwed. The originals had xp, and even if SPM wasn't turn based, it at least had a level up system and a reason to defeat enemies.
I've heard of Color Splash, but i assumed it to be a fan game, because I've never heared of it. Nope it was actually by Nintendo. It was basically sticker star, nothing too special except for the witty dialogue, which kept it fun. However like sticker star, if you didn't have the right things, or ran out of cards, your screwed.
Then I got TOK for my birthday when i was in highschool, and I felt like it was a step in the right direction, but I was cautious for this one. There was witty dialogue, and they did have partners, but unfortunately they were temporary, which was disappointing, and the puzzle idea was unique and they removed the stickers and cards, however the badges like the iron jump would break which I didn't really like, and the fact that since there are no xp points, i just don't see the reason to fight, not to mention they got repetitive.
However, there were some good parts on it that i did enjoy
To anybody who has read this comment, would you say that I am being Toxic?
Yeah i know the ones I like have some flaws
SPM: The bowser carrie strategy, but that one's not a problem for me, but the fact that you can't go back to the part where you were in castle bleck if you used the return pipe is not that great
TTYD: Backtracking can be very annoying.
64: If you level up your characters too much, you basically soft lock the game, because the game is programmed to have a limit on which you can level up, in other words you'll just be stuck on the screen with the words "you can't level up that one anymore" if you try to pick HP, FP, or BP
Sorry if I'm a bit tardy to the party but, nah fam, you're not being toxic, you're just stating your opinion on each Paper Mario game. If anything, anyone who views your comment as "toxic" should probably take a loooong look in the mirror lol
I really like the old ones and the origami king. I don't hate the Star sticker and the color splash, just because it's different, but because I don't have what his previous mind did to him, like me, I don't like the sticker star very much. Only why is it different, if not because it changes its mechanics and history a lot, I would very much like it if they make a new one that they bring the old with the stories companion points stars and the new How different combat systems like the origami kingdom or they improve what was the card combat system Something a thousand years ago would be epic, it will be the best but we shouldn't go crazy insulting another person with different tastes, I just want to play the remake and enjoy What's more, I'm thinking of buying the origami king and then the remake of the thousand year door
The problems in this video goes beyond just Paper Mario or even Nintendo discussions.
The Internet has this major problem where some people love to leave their manners at the door so to speak when they pick up their phone or logon to their computers. It's like some people treat the Internet like a GTA-style sandbox game where their abusive behavior has no consequence, partly because they don't see it. I say this because with most of these people, there is no way they would pull most of this nonsense at their local store or park. Like accusing people of being Nintendo defenders or being the reason why modern Paper Mario is bad is something that would get people annoyed with you IRL.
Also, I'm sure these same toxic parts of the Paper Mario fanbase, they're likely also in other fandoms too, making things insufferable for others there too. I kinda wished schools would teach Internet etiquette, actually.
you didn't just hit the nail, you assembled an entire desk (trash metaphor, I know)
you didn't just hit the nail, you assembled an entire desk (trash metaphor, I know)
you didn't just hit the nail, you assembled an entire desk (trash metaphor, I know)
Looking at you star wars fans…
I personally hate Sticker Star, dislike Color Splash, and barely enjoy Origami King.
Still, if you ask for my opinion in a conversation, i'll tell you what i think. But not actively being toxic with random people online, that's not good.
Honestly I think these people are trolling i remember someone said they thought tok was better than ttyd so I asked them why they thought it was better to have a genuine discussion but they just kept saying it was "better" and than they started accusing me of being a toxic ttyd fan despite the fact I Honestly think super paper mario is the best game anyways lol
Jump on me all you want, I don't care, the Paper Mario fandom is by far, my least favorite video game fandom on the internet.
Not even a hot take lmao
Based 🗿
Unfortunately, despite your good points, there are always going to be people out there being toxic. If Paper Mario hadn't changed so drastically over the years, with Sticker Star, Color Splash, and even Origami King gutting out everything the older fans had loved about the original Paper Mario games the older fans loved so much, then this wouldn't be a problem in the first place. But because Nintendo did what they did to a beloved series, of course you're going to have two sides of the fanbase arguing about which one's better, which leads to an all out toxic war between them. So now, even if the series goes back to how it was before Sticker Star- heck, before Super Paper Mario, the damage has already been done. Instead of just enjoying the fact the remake of TTYD could possibly mean more return to form Paper Mario, now the toxic classic fans will use that as ammo to attack the modern fans. And the toxic modern fans will scream how ALL fans who liked the classic Paper Mario games don't deserve the remake and all that. It is the unfortunate truth about human nature, especially on the internet.
You mention being annoyed with how the new games are still being talked about in light of ttyd remake. But I think you're missing how ttyd remake is shocking BECAUSE we just got 3 games that were extremely divisive and the team quite clearly seemed to be stuck on the new direction for the future. And because they had no reason to do this. They easily could have ported Color Splash or remade Sticker Star. Those games didn't break their apparent rules and limitations. But ttyd does. And they remade it. Which is why the contrast between it and the new games is brought into greater light here. Ttyd remake was such a wonderful announcement in part because of how it harshly contrasts with Paper Mario's at the time apparent shackles and the divided fan reception to the new games. I've only seen joy and happiness at ttyd's announcement. That's a far cry from the reception to the previous games. And it's worth noting to a degree, I think.
I don't even like Paper Mario. However, I want to know what about this series brings out the worst in people. This discourse is weird since the stories in these games are more or less the same thing, with the only difference being the gameplay mechanics. Compared to Dragon Quest (one of the few RPG series I like), Paper Mario feels like an entry-level beginner's RPG. Earnestly, what's good about this spin-off franchise?
As someone looking in from the outside: I've long been thinking about playing a Paper Mario game, but the fanbase has been incredibly intimidating to me, to the point where I just didn't want to bother.
I’d definitely give the series a shot, I love all the games apart from sticker star, just keep away from Twitter haha
Just look at the critical reception of the games and go from there. You don't have to lock yourself from playing what are by most accounts critically acclaimed titles just because people are arguing about it on the Internet.
Like every fandom, stay away from Reddit
Just ignore they're there and enjoy the games, sometimes, ignorance really is bliss.
I mean, don’t Paper Mario fans absolutely bloodlusted on toads ? They literally want them all to be dead. And it’s possible that they’re mad because Nintendo made fun of them in Origami King.
Hate to be that guy but they made fun of them in Color Splash
@@gboogie3257 How ? Oh ?
@@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712 *inhales*
In Paper Mario Color of the Green Big Paint Star Chapter getting all Red Rescue Squad member Numba 23 will say “Mario sir! I’m a huge fan! Thanks for taking the time to talk to a normal Toad like me with no unique traits or discernible characteristics”
@@gboogie3257 It’s just that ? Probably a reference, but I guess Nintendo knows it. 😅
@@BergmitetheBlueandPointy0712 I mean, would it surprise you if it still made people mad?
I absolutely hate the modern paper mario games.
And my hate is valid, yes ive played them all, and i literally had to stop after the second chapter of each game, because i literally felt like i was forcing mtself to play this. I got 0 enjoyment out of those games. Maybe im biased as hell because i grew up with ttyd and played it constantly, i didnt even touch the first paper mario until way after super paper mario, but i believe the games are genuinely that bad, and while i dont agree on how people are hating paper mario new and old, some people do have valid reasons behind it
FE and Xenoblade fans felt the same too with older FE titles before awakening and Xenoblade 1 before xenoblade 2
The only one I loved that became my favorite was spm
I… like all the paper Mario games!
I know that they are remaking ttyd but that is not the same as them making a new game in the classic style and we still don't know for sure if they'd be willing to do that. I think you'll see older fans calm down if a new paper mario game is made in the classic style. Also I disagree with measuring how bad each side has been...quite frankly both sides need a chill out badge
I love that literally nothing has changed in this fandom sense the literal most ideal thing that this fandom wanted happened, if anything they've gotten more toxic
I've seen "Modern Paper Mario Fans" throw shit at Arlo for making videos about how happy he is that Paper Mario is coming back to its roots
Insulting him to the point he hardly touches twitter now, blaming him for the remake happening, which is INSANE lmao
I see more toxic af "Modern Paper Mario fans" these days honestly
Just wow, and they say TTYD fans are toxic...
Which, don't get me wrong, some of them can be, but some of the modern Paper Mario fans aren't exactly angels themselves either
The remake was coming anyways. Blaming that on Arlo is wild to me. While I think he praises TTYD too much, he was very fair when reviewing CS and OK. I’ve seen so much worse from TTYD fans than Arlo.
@xanander4693 Arlo doesn't deserve the hate he's a wholesome RUclipsr who don't cause drama, also Twitter/X is an outhouse in website form.
The arguements about modern Paper Mario games is getting too old. This alone just make Paper Mario TTYD looks bad and the fandom itself looks terrible.
There's literally zero points on bashing on recent Paper Mario games anymore.
As a Mario fan myself, I love every Paper Mario games but except for Sticker Star because that's the ONLY bad game. And I have nothing against the Modern Paper Mario styles either.
Now that the Paper Mario TTYD Remake is been announced, I think everyone should be chill out for once and stop with the toxicity.
JRPGs becoming popular made the fans divided and the consequences for it
I am a paper mario newcomer, origami king will be my first game that I have played and from what I have seen of that game, it looks spectacular, 10 out of 10. But I have barely seen anyone on RUclips that says origami king is their favorite paper mario game and I do feel like i am the only person who thinks origami king is the best. And when you showed the thumbnail to that video, I was like " ok that is the literal definition of bashing out on the modern games". And some people can't even look past the fact that they didn't get a true sequel to ttyd. One really good example of this characteristic is Arlo, he is so incredibly biased that he couldn't even call the origami king a solid game because origami king lacked RPG elements and creativity and it wasn't the return-to-form that people expected. So what i am trying to say is 5hat TTYD fans are the most annoying part of the fan base
My only reaction to this toxicity? "Le sigh...".
GameCube seems to be the most neckbeardy console ever.
Paper Mario Community is extremely toxic. I just made a Tier List of the Mario RPG games that I've played and I sent identical ones to both Mario and Luigi Community and the Paper Mario Community and legit a week later, mods removed the Paper Mario post due to the toxic behavior of the community.
I truly believe Nintendo revealed the TTYD remake purely for 1 reason and 1 reason only. To shut those entitled and spoiiled TTYD brats up. Nintendo legit just said "here is TTYD HD, now shut the fuck up"
My Paper Mario Ranking currently is TOK > PM64 > SPM > PMSS > TTYD -------(PMCS) and the only reason why TTYD is super low is due to how Toxic the community is. The Mario and Luigi Community doesn't even have to deal with this sort of crap. Even if Alphadream was shut down, I still see how the Mario and Luigi community treats those with different options.
I dare anyone to make a Tier list and not put TTYD on S-Tier and watch how these toxic Paper Mario fans react.
Paper Mario fans are f’d up for sure. But TO BE COMPLETELY fair, the Mario and Luigi series never strayed away from their formula where modern paper Mario games are vastly different from the original. I say this as a Mario and Luigi fan.
Also ranking TTYD so low solely based on the fandom is something toxic paper Mario fans would say about modern paper mario. My favorite paper Mario game is Origami King and I think TTYD if overrated but it’s still a great game. Don’t be petty like the toxic TTYD fans.
I love the classic games yes we got bad apples but some of you modern fans are not perfect either yah attack me because I was skeptical about the origami King when it first got announced
Could be just trolls
The battle system and boss battles in Origami King are absolute CRAP. Nobody wants to line up some damn rings to be able to attack. And nobody wants office supplies as Bosses. Let alone the fact that you have to form a path to the boss using the rings to even damage it. BUT besides the battle system and bosses, the rest of it wasn't too bad. I wish it had more unique characters and original characters and more races besides Toads but I did enjoy having to find the Origami Toads. However it is sad when finding hidden Origami Toads and solving puzzles is the most enjoyment I get out of the game. For Color Splash I didn't like the battle system either and the only part I liked was painting in the spots that had missing color. 😭
F**k Sticker Star because it had so missed potential :(
If Super Paper Mario had badges it would be the best
I just wish modern fans didnt live in thin glass houses, jokes are jokes they whould cry wolf all the time
Another problem with this fandom is they keep comparing modern paper mario to ttyd, like just shut up dude.
Look i dont hate sticker star, color splash or origami king the only thing i never liked was the complex puzzles, bosses whit higher hp, no original characters, heck even no real partners up to the chapter final boss
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Olivia was the closest thing i got.. and bobby too 😭
People that claims to be a fan of paper Mario saga and hates the modern games fof me aren't real fans or good fans,nice video
Why not, people have the right to be critical. You don't need to like everything to be a fan. I like SpongeBob but, I haven't seen the show past season 5-6. I think Classic fans are probably the biggest fans, they were through it all. If you see your favorite game change it's identity yet, you still wait patiently for it to return. It says a lot.
This is proving the point of the video. You don't need to be a fan of anything, and you should be allowed to call out what you don't like. If it for some reason has an effect on you, you are welcome to just ignore the discussion.
And people who hate the classic games are?
Also that ine thumbnail was based wdym
I personally dislike paper mario TTYD, and I haven't even played it.
Why?. well, because of the fandom itself not shutting up about it, I got tired of seeing it be fanboyed everywhere so I didn't even think of giving it a chance.
that's just how the fandom is.
Stop spamming!
You're proving my point
@@SuperPlacido1Common YT bug.
Man this shit just happens in everything It's just something we all sane people have to ignore and look at in disgust, I should know I'M IN THE SONIC FANBACE
Seriously although sonic fans are nowhere near the level of toxicity as star wars has gotten.
The thing that's funny to me right, is that pretty much every Sonic game has a group of people that despises it, loves it, or anything in between. I feel like on the whole at the very least because of the sheer amount of differing opinions, it's harder for there to be as distinctive of a line drawn as this situation. Like, being a Sonic fan you kinda just except that people like or dislike stuff that you do. I guess like with there being fewer Paper Mario games than Sonic games, there is more of a harsh "them or us" divide that surpasses even discussing the games themselves. For sure, the same type of stuff does happen with Sonic though, lol.
@@powerfullpummel6417 @cheesehead302 yeah the Sonic community has chilled out a lot but back in 2002 and especially 2010 was almost as bad mediocre game after mediocre game a huge part of the fan base wanting to return to adventure style but not getting shit not to mention the fucking writing all in all every fan base has ups and downs I have no doubt the Sonic fan base will get even more toxic than it ever has before in the future and so will the paper Mario fan base 😐 It's like a pendulum It always gets worse and always gets better
@@alexthebluehermit Yeahhh I guess, that's thing. A lot of the classic vs modern discourse has died off and is nowhere near as crazy as it was closer to 2010. Probably because of the release of Mania to be honest. It's totally a cyclical thing for most spaces. I don't know if there will ever truly be a point where most people agree on Paper Mario, it's just a strange situation where a company made something so intensely counter to what the majority was interested in and kinda doubled down with that in some aspects, that there will probably be people feeling bitter about it for years. It's a weird situation, honestly, you don't really see a developer be so intently focused on doing something in a way that is completely opposite of what most people want, seeing the massive fan reaction and everything, and then continue to do it. It's just so weird. And then you have the people that are new to the franchise in a weird spot, everything about it is just so bizarre honestly. Nintendo is just a completely strange company some times.
@@Cheesehead302 companies do decisions like that all the time like again Sonic did Sonic boom and double down on it and got fucked over because of it so did Nintendo with the Wii u, hell movies even do it too like Ghostbusters 2016 companies that aren't private are more likely to do bullshit brain damaged things
I personally dislike paper mario TTYD, and I haven't even played it.
Why?. well, because of the fandom itself not shutting up about it, I got tired of seeing it be fanboyed everywhere so I didn't even think of giving it a chance.
that's just how the fandom is.
@@magicianrabbidsupremacy454 Am I the Chad or the soyjak?
I personally dislike paper mario TTYD, and I haven't even played it.
Why?. well, because of the fandom itself not shutting up about it, I got tired of seeing it be fanboyed everywhere so I didn't even think of giving it a chance.
that's just how the fandom is.
You spammed so much, you got on twitter!
Definitely give the TTYD remake a shot. If you enjoyed the modern games, you’ll highly enjoy TTYD. Don’t let some toxic people on the internet prevent you from enjoying a great game. I personally enjoyed all the paper mario games
@@CesarCheeser08 oh, just noticed, comment accidentally posted twice, thank you, potato internet.
@@CesarCheeser08 can I see the post?