The last one baffles me! How is it possible to overcome the 3:1 ratio? I mean, in a theoretical situation, in complete absence of friction, the output should be 1+1+1 (3) force units. For how much efficient those pulleys can be, they shouldn't be able to completely eliminate the friction... and even in that case, the ratio should be 3:1 Instead you measured 3.09... Maybe it depends on the elasticity of the rope (shouldn't that be a static rope?)? No clue edit: I wrote the comment right away, before reading other comments... now I see that maybe it could be a calibration issue. Anyway thanks a lot for your work and sperimentation. It's interesting and very valuable!
Awesome stuff! Maybe a topic would be the forces that can be applied when pulling on the rope from the side after it has been tensioned. I would love to see more test like this very interesting! Thank you for the effort to set all of it up and film it for tree mugs like us!
Again, thanks Patrick for putting in the time and effort for these educational videos. What I would like next is for you to give us your thoughts on what rigging setup is most time efficient on a jobsite. If it takes an additional 15 minutes to go from 2kn to 2.25kn, for example, will that make much of a difference in most real life pulling situations. If I need a really strong pull, I usually have another worker to help pull on the rope. Almost zero extra time needed.
Outstanding work! Where would we be without your long boring winter?! Imagine if Jack Nicholson was as smart as you, the Shining would've never happened. I'm curious to see, what it takes to shock load a climb line to where it should be destroyed
Hello! Interesting and informative video as usual. I would love to see some video about the force in rigging. Negative rigging. Dont have to be big but different variables is always interesting. Thank you for the work you do.
I wanted to say the same thing... negative rigged shock loads would be very interesting to see the relationship between load, weight, drop distance and rope.
I’m just an old man but I’ve pulled a lot of trees. I was always taught the strongest pull was to place your pulley on the object you wanted to move. Probably wrong but it’s always worked well for me.
I second testing a Masdom and rope jack forces. Also curious at what force the prusik used to connect systems slips at. Love load cell testing. Wish I’d grabbed one before the big increase in price. 👍🏼
Patrick, thanks for another great video. Since you asked, I have a test idea. The bare aluminum snatch ring video reminded me of my bargain buy coated triple thimble, and a review which warned about runaway loads. I was not able to locate the exact review, but from memory, if the thimble, used for aerial friction, was allowed to “run” , the load can basically run away with little or no braking…. I thought the bare aluminum triple thimble is more coveted because it holds a larger rope, but with aerial friction as the goal, perhaps there’s more to it? I’m curious to know if rope speed affects friction differently for bare aluminum, vs hard-coated aluminum. We know that ceramic insulates well, and aluminum conducts well. Perhaps the ceramic coating removes or sinks less heat from the rope and somehow changes the properties of the rope to decrease braking friction (glazing, suppleness). On the flip side, maybe stationary, bare aluminum concentrates heat and adds friction with speed? I don’t have any great test setup in mind, but I’ll be thinking on it.
I would really be interested in seeing how much load you can pull with heavy duty ratchet straps I have used a pair of these together to pull trees over in the past.
Pulling from side would be interesting. But we also need to figure out what is wrong with your experiment as it’s impossible to get higher than 3.0 to 1. The most you could reasonable get with two 95% pulleys is about 2.7. And your rope angle being off by a few degree costs another percentage or two. What do you think is causing to inaccuracies?
Yeah, I should have done the math in real time. I would have re-calibrated the load cells. Not sure what's going on. I'll re-try it tomorrow... Patrick
Interesting point. When loading up, friction reduces the output below the ideal load. When unloading, friction increases the output above ideal. I suspect that Patrick loaded up and then unloaded very slightly before locking off for making the video. Great work, in every case, on his part. I hope my answer helps. Cheers!
@@teacherhaggis6945 That's an interesting thought. As the efficiency of the system got better, I was forced more and more to "bounce" on the fiddle block just to get it back up to the 2kN mark. I could definitely not get it there with just a strong, steady, constant pull. Could that have contributed to this effect? I do think that the output load cell was off by a consistent 25-50 lbf per pull. Hard to say. I'm going to re-test. Thanks for the help. - Patrick
GREAT VID THANKS...IF 1300 LBS WAS THE STRONGEST PULL YOUR TEST SHOWED W ONE GUY, WHAT DIAMETER HARDWOOD SPECIES AND SOFT COULD YOU PULL ON WITHOUT TEARING IT OUT ON A CLIMBER IN THE PROCESS OF BACKCUT ? OR IS THAT NOT ALSO BE INTERESTED IN WHAT TWO MEN PULLING YOUR TEST ,THE BASIC TRUCKERS AND THE Z RIG TEST ( TWO TESTS ) OR ALL OF THEM IF YOUR INTO IT. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS TO MUCH PULL IN POUNDS --BE SAFE🌲
There are too many factors at play to say how much pull is too much in a given situation. This is how I think about it: put enough pull into it to make sure that it won't go backwards, judge the amount by how much it moves. Then cut it up, face and back cut. Then slowly pull it over. Hope that makes sense. Patrick
@@TreeMuggs_PatrickM YEAH NOT A BLACK /WHITE ANSWER FOR THAT JUST NEVER HEARD ANYONE ASK.THE LAST COUPLE PULLING VIDS ARE INTRIGUING BUT I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THE LAST VID WITH SEVERAL TESTS THE INPUT WAS GREATER THAN THE OUTPUT..THOUGHT NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTPUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE HIGHER ? AM I OVER THINKING THIS NO ONE ELSE HAS ASKED ? THANKS- BE SAFE.
The last one baffles me! How is it possible to overcome the 3:1 ratio?
I mean, in a theoretical situation, in complete absence of friction, the output should be 1+1+1 (3) force units. For how much efficient those pulleys can be, they shouldn't be able to completely eliminate the friction... and even in that case, the ratio should be 3:1
Instead you measured 3.09...
Maybe it depends on the elasticity of the rope (shouldn't that be a static rope?)?
No clue
edit:
I wrote the comment right away, before reading other comments... now I see that maybe it could be a calibration issue.
Anyway thanks a lot for your work and sperimentation. It's interesting and very valuable!
Awesome stuff! Maybe a topic would be the forces that can be applied when pulling on the rope from the side after it has been tensioned. I would love to see more test like this very interesting! Thank you for the effort to set all of it up and film it for tree mugs like us!
Class is in session, good stuff Patrick, thanks for taking the time..
Yeah Patrick that was really helpful. It's good to see the different that make computer to rope on rope
Again, thanks Patrick for putting in the time and effort for these educational videos. What I would like next is for you to give us your thoughts on what rigging setup is most time efficient on a jobsite. If it takes an additional 15 minutes to go from 2kn to 2.25kn, for example, will that make much of a difference in most real life pulling situations. If I need a really strong pull, I usually have another worker to help pull on the rope. Almost zero extra time needed.
Very well done. Changed my understanding of haul systems. Thanks for putting this together.
Awesome video Patrick 🙌 Good stuff to know. I appreciate it
Outstanding work! Where would we be without your long boring winter?! Imagine if Jack Nicholson was as smart as you, the Shining would've never happened. I'm curious to see, what it takes to shock load a climb line to where it should be destroyed
Thank you sir, very educational 👍
Hello! Interesting and informative video as usual.
I would love to see some video about the force in rigging.
Negative rigging. Dont have to be big but different variables is always interesting. Thank you for the work you do.
I wanted to say the same thing... negative rigged shock loads would be very interesting to see the relationship between load, weight, drop distance and rope.
Great vid - thanks for the numbers. 👍👍
I’m just an old man but I’ve pulled a lot of trees. I was always taught the strongest pull was to place your pulley on the object you wanted to move. Probably wrong but it’s always worked well for me.
I second testing a Masdom and rope jack forces. Also curious at what force the prusik used to connect systems slips at. Love load cell testing. Wish I’d grabbed one before the big increase in price. 👍🏼
Patrick, thanks for another great video. Since you asked, I have a test idea. The bare aluminum snatch ring video reminded me of my bargain buy coated triple thimble, and a review which warned about runaway loads. I was not able to locate the exact review, but from memory, if the thimble, used for aerial friction, was allowed to “run” , the load can basically run away with little or no braking…. I thought the bare aluminum triple thimble is more coveted because it holds a larger rope, but with aerial friction as the goal, perhaps there’s more to it? I’m curious to know if rope speed affects friction differently for bare aluminum, vs hard-coated aluminum. We know that ceramic insulates well, and aluminum conducts well. Perhaps the ceramic coating removes or sinks less heat from the rope and somehow changes the properties of the rope to decrease braking friction (glazing, suppleness). On the flip side, maybe stationary, bare aluminum concentrates heat and adds friction with speed? I don’t have any great test setup in mind, but I’ll be thinking on it.
I would really be interested in seeing how much load you can pull with heavy duty ratchet straps I have used a pair of these together to pull trees over in the past.
Pulling from side would be interesting. But we also need to figure out what is wrong with your experiment as it’s impossible to get higher than 3.0 to 1. The most you could reasonable get with two 95% pulleys is about 2.7. And your rope angle being off by a few degree costs another percentage or two. What do you think is causing to inaccuracies?
Yeah, I should have done the math in real time. I would have re-calibrated the load cells. Not sure what's going on. I'll re-try it tomorrow...
Patrick
Interesting point. When loading up, friction reduces the output below the ideal load. When unloading, friction increases the output above ideal. I suspect that Patrick loaded up and then unloaded very slightly before locking off for making the video. Great work, in every case, on his part. I hope my answer helps. Cheers!
@@TreeMuggs_PatrickM not sure if I asked before… are you going to Asheville, NC at the end of the month for ArborFest Expo?
@@teacherhaggis6945 That's an interesting thought. As the efficiency of the system got better, I was forced more and more to "bounce" on the fiddle block just to get it back up to the 2kN mark. I could definitely not get it there with just a strong, steady, constant pull. Could that have contributed to this effect? I do think that the output load cell was off by a consistent 25-50 lbf per pull. Hard to say. I'm going to re-test. Thanks for the help. - Patrick
@@CoolGen10 I don't really travel much outside of Canuckistan. Come to think of it, I don't really travel much inside of Canuckistan.........
Wondering what a masdam or a rope jack forces would be.
GREAT VID THANKS...IF 1300 LBS WAS THE STRONGEST PULL YOUR TEST SHOWED W ONE GUY, WHAT DIAMETER HARDWOOD SPECIES AND SOFT COULD YOU PULL ON WITHOUT TEARING IT OUT ON A CLIMBER IN THE PROCESS OF BACKCUT ? OR IS THAT NOT ALSO BE INTERESTED IN WHAT TWO MEN PULLING YOUR TEST ,THE BASIC TRUCKERS AND THE Z RIG TEST ( TWO TESTS ) OR ALL OF THEM IF YOUR INTO IT. I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHAT IS TO MUCH PULL IN POUNDS --BE SAFE🌲
There are too many factors at play to say how much pull is too much in a given situation. This is how I think about it: put enough pull into it to make sure that it won't go backwards, judge the amount by how much it moves. Then cut it up, face and back cut. Then slowly pull it over. Hope that makes sense.
Patrick
@@TreeMuggs_PatrickM YEAH NOT A BLACK /WHITE ANSWER FOR THAT JUST NEVER HEARD ANYONE ASK.THE LAST COUPLE PULLING VIDS ARE INTRIGUING BUT I'M CONFUSED ABOUT THE LAST VID WITH SEVERAL TESTS THE INPUT WAS GREATER THAN THE OUTPUT..THOUGHT NO MATTER WHAT THE OUTPUT IS SUPPOSED TO BE HIGHER ? AM I OVER THINKING THIS NO ONE ELSE HAS ASKED ? THANKS- BE SAFE.
nice blueberry field
🤔🤔🤔
Are your Lungs OK? All I can hear is breathing