Here's a link to the Moonboard circuit! rb.gy/ttweu Unfortunately someone seems to have gotten wind of it and logged 3/4 of it on the app (I believe under the name "Resista"), so we can't actually log it ourselves since the app doesn't allow duplicates. But that shouldn't stop you from using it! Also, as Dan mentioned: training periodization links in description! ⌛ TIMESTAMPS 00:00 Intro 00:21 Core-Strength Training 01:04 Antagonist Training 01:54 Interference Effect 02:48 Cardio for Climbers 04:24 Concentric Finger Strength Training 06:25 Recruitment Pulls 06:51 Endurance Training for Boulderers 09:18 Face Pulls 10:25 Training Periodization 12:07 Hangboard/Campusboard Risk for Youth 14:06 Progressive Overload 15:04 Gaining Muscle for Climbing 16:35 Losing Weight for Climbing 17:36 Muscle Confusion 18:45 Lower Body Training 20:13 Stretching & Flexibility Training
Curios: does friction on pulleys for essentric phase appear in every exersice (specifically thinking about using a barbell to strengthen flexor digitorum here) or was it just about curling a flat edge? Intuition says that you should be fine with barbell, but i might just be clueless
I have a similar question as my forebearer. There are some climbers around that do heavy finger rolls, either on a barbell or a dumbbell. Eric Horst recommended it at some point and I also saw some pretty advanced climbers recommend it too. I have tried it in the past too and at least I can say that it did not feel uncomfortable. The training effect I cannot really evaluate though, I just haven't tried it long enough. Might be something to take another look at?
that exact quote pops into my mind every time I am in the climbing gym and see folks do endless "core" workouts and such. Such a phenomenal wealth of information (for what he does).
12:14 "I don't feel qualified to speak on it." 👏👏 Wow, this is so refreshing to hear. My respect for Jason grew tenfold. More people with a social media following need to learn this mindset, instead of regurgitating information that is at best - useless, and at worst - dangerous, for the sake of having something to say about a topic.
Would be fun to have a video focusing on us climbers who climb less regularly, maybe 1-3 time a week and recommendations on how to maximize each session without spending a whole session on finger boards
Having cardio is so important for trad climbing! When I was playing soccer with my kids consistently, every approach in socal was a cakewalk and I could climb all day. When I wasn’t doing any running, I had to spend half an hour recovering before I could imagine climbing after every approach.
I got more out of yin yoga classes than any weightlifting or strength-training program I’ve tried. A little bit of gentle yoga gave me huge flexibility gains without causing a lot of stress or risking an injury. The overall slowness of gentle or yin yoga means it takes a long time, but that’s the point. Sometimes, we confuse “efficiency” with “speed,” and we reward practices that pay off immediately over most sustainable practices or slow-but-solid foundation building. I also found yin yoga was helpful for off-the-wall practice with static climbing movement. As someone with a dynamic style, gentle yoga helped me move carefully, slowly, and intentionally. I think strength or weight training could do those things, but those elements are the main focus of gentle yoga.
Great content. The muscle mass meme is super spot on. Anecdote: i started climbing at 190, very muscualar, and felt the need to cut down weight, ended up all the way down to 170 when i sent my first v8 2 years in. A year and a half later i sent my first v10 at 187 lbs and feel way better overall, way more capacity, poeer endurance, and even feel lighter on the wall. Foot cuts are more costly now, but the tradeoffs are brtter footwork and way more compression strength
@@PS-nm8wk really a combo. Definitely better technique, improved strength in the smaller muscles: better hip and shoulder rotation; better body awareness, and also leaning into my strengths and style more. I've probably only gone from a v6 to a v8 crimper, but I've embraced thuggy, steep, and compression climbing which allows my bigger muscles to be more of an assistance rather than a hindrance.
I cannot imagine people actually mean only concentric training for fingers. They are propably thinking about dynamic vs static/isometric. Probably exercises like barbell finger rolls, i rarely see those. At least for hypertrophy training dynamic exercises are superior. Would love to get some details if dynamic finger exercises have carry over for climbers and how they train tendons / connective tissue compared to static. Great episode, love this Q&A style, thanks!
most of the discussion is on concentric like exercises with isometric overcoming. I think most climbers are less aware of the eccentric issue but also never hit weights near to engaging this because a true concentric at intensity is difficult, and to compare to an isometric lift the weight is way below, thus climbers often find the way to make the number be the biggest possible. Having trained several climbers with these isometric overcoming exercises, the feedback from them is almost immediate, and using a strain gauge to assess there is little correlation between hangboard numbers and these numbers, but these numbers do correlate well to true concentrics.
Amateur tip: always check your bands before face pulls. Have had a few times where the band had a small tear and got slapped in the face when it snapped, had a friend scratch his cornea from band to the eye.
As a coach, I'd love to dive more in depth into periodization and how long "period" should be in order to peak for a competition. Another note, I've cut out most campus and hangboarding from my youth programs because I think time spent on the wall is more valuable, but after hearing your notes I'm curious as to what you think "Bad/ dangerous" campus boarding looks like. As always, love the videos and especially the style of editing. Thanks!
Concerned about hypertrophy/gaining muscle mass? Look at the vast majority of high end climbers and calm down. Unless you have the genetics (unlikely) and ingest the calories (not easy to do, ask serious lifters) it's not going to happen. Good episode. Hooper's Beta continues to be one of the best perspectives on training for climbing on the YT
Regarding the muscle question, I want to point out that most climbers will say muscle won't hurt, but all said climbers are invariably lean and have little muscle mass (relative to other sports, especially power sports). That's a case of climbers advising other climbers, rather than people in general who want to get good at climbing. Climbing will not build the kind of muscle mass that hinders climbing, but if a power athlete wanted to transition from their sport to climbing, optimising results would often involve a reduction in muscle mass. Doing so doesn't necessarily make them a better *hybrid* athlete, but if we're talking about maximising pure climbing grade, then specialisation will require changes in body composition. The thing that makes Jason and Dan's comments true is the context of them speaking to a consumer who isn't carrying the muscle mass necessary for other sports (or not being an athlete in the first place); which makes it incidentally true for most people, but not universally.
is there much research on yielding vs overcoming isometrics for tendon strength/stiffness? I see c4hp speak on this a lot, something to do with different fatigue mechanisms and concentric style (overcoming iso) leading to faster recovery?
If you look at the pro level you see how important flexibility is. Probably the best example I can think of is this one incredible split by Alex Megos in a WC, but there are probably countless more examples
Agreed. Mobility is currently one of those areas where the research doesn't match what we see. There are very few clinically researched positions of mobility that have a significant correlation to climbing ability in research papers, but when you watch the sport you see how important good mobility can be.
i totally feel the hamstring issue! i thought i had strong ones, did always hamstring curls in the gym but my from was bad and when i tried to flex them i could never do it, i just didn't have the mind muscle connection. then my partner showed me some tricks on how to flex it, and immediately my heelhooks went from injury inducing to stable and nice and comfortable! great video as always!
The "muscle confusion" thing is a tough one for me, since there's not a lot of research on the subject beyond some very specific measurements. It's also conflated with periodization, and I've heard the term used in non-strength-building training, like stability, reaction, and coordination work which depending on the sport can yield some tangential results. I've realized improvements in mountain biking (my other sport) this way. Certainly it's not what the P90x and crossfit crowd laud it to be, but something's going on.
Muscle confusion is good for keeping people interested in working out. That's it. If they're going to quit because they're bored, change the exercises.
Muscle confusion in my opinion is moronic. My body just feels a stimulus (load) on its muscle and barely handled that load so next time it will be prepared for that load so I try and harder load. My muscles don’t realize “oh he’s doing bench press instead of push-ups now let’s explode his pecs”
I was in the Marines and part of our PFT (fitness test) is a 3 mile run. I was never a rabbit but always had a good time (21 - 24 min depending on how hard I pushed). I got into climbing after getting out of the Marines and got into pretty damn good shape. At one point a guy I worked with asked me to help him get into shape. I asked him what he wanted to do and he wanted to start with running. So I would get up early AF to run with him. At this point it had been years since I ran. We hit the track and I thought I was going to be winded but I flew. If I had to run 3 miles at the time I would guess my 3 mile time to be at 21 or less without having to "push" myself like I had to. So with all that said, I think it cardio is over-rated but you do need power-endurance sessions as part of your training for that to be true.
Wouldn't leg strength and cardio fitness be crucial for outdoor climbing too, not just movement on the rock? I'm thinking of long and/or steep approaches with heavy packs or multiple pads strapped to your back etc. I'm surprised they didn't mention that either.
People make this argument, but unless the objective is alpine or adventuresome then this does not add much. The Ceuse wall is a difficult approach, enough for many climbers to lose an attempt due to energy, but once at the wall this cardio and leg strength will do far less for the actual objective than time better spent training for climbing in particular. Most distant objectives for sport climbers and boulderers... you can simply stop and rest on the approach, and we are not over the course of a day worried about changing weather patterns as say a week long approach onto an alpine tower would. You should have a base of leg and cardio fitness, but these can be developed in climbing related training.
For sure! Critical for conquering the approaches, and weakly beneficial for rope climbers overall, but not a *huge* driver for performance on the wall. Absolutely nothing wrong with cardio, you just want to choose the right tool for the job! :)
“Climbers get rhabdo after KILLER leg day” “These climbers can’t climb out of the Leg Press!” The clickbait titles for an RP x Hoopers Beta collab video writes itself.
What’s endurance in sport climbing anyway? It’s certainly not the type of cardiovascular endurance you need to complete a 5h bike race. Why do climbers have reduced strength levels after doing 5 hard moves? What are the biological processes? Is it build-up of lactic acid? Depletion of ATP?
The muscle growth one i found interesting. I would love to hear more in regards to caloric intake along with metabolism measurements (Is that a thing?) to go along with it. I for one have trained athletes who, no matter how much hypertrophy I try and introduce, it just doesn't build that much muscle. But on the flip have done almost none on some athletes and watched them gain INCHES in bicep growth / chest growth... Obviously age and hormones play a role as well, but ya. Curious.
I sometimes wonder how much benefit climbers get past a certain point with flexibility. Ghisolfi recently did a video earlier this year with Lattice (I think?) and found that his flexibility wasn't great. Obviously he has plenty of other attributes that more than make up for any flexibility concerns, but I think this may indicate that the baseline flexibility needed for most climbing may be relatively low. The benefits of increasing flexibility past whatever that baseline is may be slim for most climbers.
I think in the discussion of muscle mass gains a crucial point was left out. Sure gaining too much muscle in unwanted regions will be detrimental, but the contribution of the forearm muscles to the total muscle mass is negligible. Recruitment will only get you so far. If you look at most pro-climbers, they have massive forearm hypertrophy. Anecdotally, my progress with max hangs always stagnated after about 4 weeks until switching to lower intensity and higher volume hangs (which by my guess cause more hypertrophy).
Yo, quick question for a young climber, I’m having a hard time finding a set in stone answer when it comes to how many calories I should be eating should I be counting my calories and how much do I need to eat too gain more lean strength. Do you have any answers for this?
There is no set in stone answer for that question, there are only multiple options you can choose from depending on your preferences, personal history, and goals. You don’t need to count calories if you don’t want to or are at risk of disordered eating, but it’s often helpful for people to get some baseline of their daily energy expenditure because not everyone has a good intuition for how much they need to eat (the feeling of hunger is affected by MANY things, not just the physiological need for energy - so people that say “just eat when you’re hungry” are not providing useful advice). If you want to gain strength, you don’t necessarily have to eat more (though it may be useful depending on your current diet). If you’re very skinny, eating more can make it easier to gain muscle mass, which will facilitate strength gains. MacroFactor is our app of choice for diet tracking, but is certainly not necessary. You can also use a bathroom scale to weigh yourself on a consistent basis and get some idea of your energy expenditure that way. -Emile
Concentric finger training is usually done with a gripper. I would not dismiss that mode of training so readily. I’ve been experimenting with grippers for about a month and I’ve definitely think there is a place for them in the climbing training tool belt.
These guys are too in the weeds to give any real answer on any of these. Acting like putting on too much muscle is a real risk for climbing is INSANE. You'd need to do WAY more hypertrophy training than climbing to put on so much muscle it hinders your climbing. If you're gaining muscle. You're stronger. It's VERY hard to gain a pound of muscle and NOT have it increase your relative strength by less than 1 pound. Unless you eat/train like a bodybuilder. You won't gain that kind of muscle. Be as strong as you can, it'll only help climbing.
I had just watched Emil's story about how he gained so much power when he gained a significant amount of weight. His message was to train hard and fuel for that and eventually your performance improves
A suggestion for this video format would be to write on the back of the signs too to avoid having turning it to look what you are choosing every time 😂
Hey, I'd love to see a more extensive video on the PE Exercise that Dan is doing in this vid. My gym boulders aren't well suited for 4x4s (also often too crowded), so I can pretty much only use the Moonboard. I would appreciate some pointers on what to look out for in circuits and potential ways to structure the training. I also see him using all feet, but the specified hands for the downclimbs. Why? :D Thanks for the content!
Nope! I use open feet for moon circuits because it lets me chose and use a broader array of movement styles (and typically a better flow) than tracking does. It also gives me access to a broader array of holds at similar difficulty (better feet to support “bad” holds and worse feet or positions to stress “good” holds) Finally, it poses a greater demand on visualization and memorization by having to remember which feet as well as hands for a full circuit. Note that in this case, open feet are not “any feet”, they’re additional holds specifically selected for the climb. I’m not choosing which feet to use on the fly.
@@danielbeall7725 Makes sense, thank you! So my guess is to structure the sessions basically exactly like classical 4x4 sessions and to find suitable circuits (and their "special" feet) by trial and error and with some specificity to current projects (like hold sizes/types, movement patterns, etc.)?
Good question! Yes there is a difference and believe it or not it does matter :) The difference is in the position/angle of the arm(humerus) and shoulder blade (scapula). With the W, both of them (shoulder and scapular) are at lower positions than the Facepull. This changes the activation patterns of muscles, and even the overall stability of the position for the shoulder. As such, the W is often slightly easier for most people to get proper form with, whereas the Facepull can be seen as an advancement. If you can do the facepull properly (good form, no pain etc) then that is often the preferred final form, but both are still good exercises.
Good to hear mention of the concentric finger training, although I think few climbers discuss the concentric currently and isometric overcoming exercises have become the focus. On the notion of the eccentric and friction around the PIP joint, this is specifically why I have begun a BFR protocol to reduce the weight to sub 60% MVC where we notice the PIP joint almost locking entirely. Plus, helps to recruit the Type ii muscle fibers without an obscene number of repetitions which would similarly cause issue to the PIP in particular. However, would disagree about the concentric is dissimilar to climbing, at least high intensity climbing where we almost never get to hit a hold statically in the grip position desired and maintain that position all the way through the next movement. The concentric is far more similar than the yielding exercise.
Cardio training is pretty important for me- 1) it helps to control my weight (I'm not gonna lie- I like to eat) 2) It helps me to stay focused and motivated during the rest days But to be honest it took me quite a lot of time to actually like running.
Cardio is great! And offers lots of general health benefits as well. Our point was only that it’s not likely to lead (by itself) to significantly increased climbing performance. It’s great for general fitness and athleticism, it’s great for moderating daily caloric expenditure, it’s good for heart health, lung health, etc. Can be good for longer sport or trad routes, and definitely good for approaches. “Overrated” was not intended to mean “not good”
@@danielbeall7725 Sure, I think you made it pretty clear that it's overrated in terms of bouldering performance I just wanted to share my experience on cardio, so maybe it will be easier for others to make a decision :)
Here's a link to the Moonboard circuit! rb.gy/ttweu Unfortunately someone seems to have gotten wind of it and logged 3/4 of it on the app (I believe under the name "Resista"), so we can't actually log it ourselves since the app doesn't allow duplicates. But that shouldn't stop you from using it! Also, as Dan mentioned: training periodization links in description!
⌛ TIMESTAMPS
00:00 Intro
00:21 Core-Strength Training
01:04 Antagonist Training
01:54 Interference Effect
02:48 Cardio for Climbers
04:24 Concentric Finger Strength Training
06:25 Recruitment Pulls
06:51 Endurance Training for Boulderers
09:18 Face Pulls
10:25 Training Periodization
12:07 Hangboard/Campusboard Risk for Youth
14:06 Progressive Overload
15:04 Gaining Muscle for Climbing
16:35 Losing Weight for Climbing
17:36 Muscle Confusion
18:45 Lower Body Training
20:13 Stretching & Flexibility Training
Curios: does friction on pulleys for essentric phase appear in every exersice (specifically thinking about using a barbell to strengthen flexor digitorum here) or was it just about curling a flat edge? Intuition says that you should be fine with barbell, but i might just be clueless
I have a similar question as my forebearer. There are some climbers around that do heavy finger rolls, either on a barbell or a dumbbell. Eric Horst recommended it at some point and I also saw some pretty advanced climbers recommend it too. I have tried it in the past too and at least I can say that it did not feel uncomfortable. The training effect I cannot really evaluate though, I just haven't tried it long enough. Might be something to take another look at?
You would hope they would at least log all of them 😭
I did not think Dr Mike would ever be making a cameo on a climbing channel 😅
that exact quote pops into my mind every time I am in the climbing gym and see folks do endless "core" workouts and such. Such a phenomenal wealth of information (for what he does).
12:14 "I don't feel qualified to speak on it." 👏👏 Wow, this is so refreshing to hear. My respect for Jason grew tenfold.
More people with a social media following need to learn this mindset, instead of regurgitating information that is at best - useless, and at worst - dangerous, for the sake of having something to say about a topic.
❤️😊
Words of wisdom from Jason. You do not have to have an opinion on everything.
No joke you gained my respect too. Smart people know when they don't know things @@HoopersBeta
Hear hear!
Seeing a collab w Renaissance Periodization would be exceptional.
Would be fun to have a video focusing on us climbers who climb less regularly, maybe 1-3 time a week and recommendations on how to maximize each session without spending a whole session on finger boards
Agreed, that would be a great video! It’s on the list :)
Having cardio is so important for trad climbing! When I was playing soccer with my kids consistently, every approach in socal was a cakewalk and I could climb all day. When I wasn’t doing any running, I had to spend half an hour recovering before I could imagine climbing after every approach.
Yay, Dr. Mike! pls do a collab with him, i need it!
I got more out of yin yoga classes than any weightlifting or strength-training program I’ve tried.
A little bit of gentle yoga gave me huge flexibility gains without causing a lot of stress or risking an injury. The overall slowness of gentle or yin yoga means it takes a long time, but that’s the point. Sometimes, we confuse “efficiency” with “speed,” and we reward practices that pay off immediately over most sustainable practices or slow-but-solid foundation building.
I also found yin yoga was helpful for off-the-wall practice with static climbing movement. As someone with a dynamic style, gentle yoga helped me move carefully, slowly, and intentionally. I think strength or weight training could do those things, but those elements are the main focus of gentle yoga.
The quality of this videos and the information is UNMATCHED! Keep it up 🙌💪🏼
Great content. The muscle mass meme is super spot on. Anecdote: i started climbing at 190, very muscualar, and felt the need to cut down weight, ended up all the way down to 170 when i sent my first v8 2 years in. A year and a half later i sent my first v10 at 187 lbs and feel way better overall, way more capacity, poeer endurance, and even feel lighter on the wall. Foot cuts are more costly now, but the tradeoffs are brtter footwork and way more compression strength
That’s awesome! I know a few big bois (~190lbs) that crush. Being strong requires some amount of muscle mass, and that is for sure underrated!
-Emile
That's good to know. Why do you think you've improved that much even though you gained weight?
@@PS-nm8wk really a combo. Definitely better technique, improved strength in the smaller muscles: better hip and shoulder rotation; better body awareness, and also leaning into my strengths and style more. I've probably only gone from a v6 to a v8 crimper, but I've embraced thuggy, steep, and compression climbing which allows my bigger muscles to be more of an assistance rather than a hindrance.
I cannot imagine people actually mean only concentric training for fingers. They are propably thinking about dynamic vs static/isometric. Probably exercises like barbell finger rolls, i rarely see those. At least for hypertrophy training dynamic exercises are superior. Would love to get some details if dynamic finger exercises have carry over for climbers and how they train tendons / connective tissue compared to static. Great episode, love this Q&A style, thanks!
most of the discussion is on concentric like exercises with isometric overcoming. I think most climbers are less aware of the eccentric issue but also never hit weights near to engaging this because a true concentric at intensity is difficult, and to compare to an isometric lift the weight is way below, thus climbers often find the way to make the number be the biggest possible.
Having trained several climbers with these isometric overcoming exercises, the feedback from them is almost immediate, and using a strain gauge to assess there is little correlation between hangboard numbers and these numbers, but these numbers do correlate well to true concentrics.
@@zacharylaschoberovercoming isometrics are the jam. Although not needed, it is fun to watch and monitor the progress on a device.
You say the flexibility doesn't come with any "awards", but if you're a guy and can do a split (either front or side), people freak the fuck out.
Haha true, that is a decent reward! It would be cool if it also came with an award 😂 🥇
Amateur tip: always check your bands before face pulls. Have had a few times where the band had a small tear and got slapped in the face when it snapped, had a friend scratch his cornea from band to the eye.
Those gym bands really get abused! If you can bring your own it’s totally worth it (but good to check them either way).
Hahaha ! I got slap by a band snapping doing exactly that earlier today.
What about doing facepulls with a gymnastic rings?
gonna have to wear safety glasses at the gym😊😅
Holy crap I lost it at the walking dead part 😂😂
Excellent video and super informative too.
😂🙏🙏
I feel like Hooper has really upped the quality of their content within ears. At first I didnt really like it, but now the advice is very good
We are always looking to improve so I'm happy to hear that it is showing!
these are some of the most informative climbing videos ive seen. i learned so many new things
As a coach, I'd love to dive more in depth into periodization and how long "period" should be in order to peak for a competition. Another note, I've cut out most campus and hangboarding from my youth programs because I think time spent on the wall is more valuable, but after hearing your notes I'm curious as to what you think "Bad/ dangerous" campus boarding looks like. As always, love the videos and especially the style of editing. Thanks!
Concerned about hypertrophy/gaining muscle mass? Look at the vast majority of high end climbers and calm down. Unless you have the genetics (unlikely) and ingest the calories (not easy to do, ask serious lifters) it's not going to happen. Good episode. Hooper's Beta continues to be one of the best perspectives on training for climbing on the YT
Regarding the muscle question, I want to point out that most climbers will say muscle won't hurt, but all said climbers are invariably lean and have little muscle mass (relative to other sports, especially power sports). That's a case of climbers advising other climbers, rather than people in general who want to get good at climbing.
Climbing will not build the kind of muscle mass that hinders climbing, but if a power athlete wanted to transition from their sport to climbing, optimising results would often involve a reduction in muscle mass. Doing so doesn't necessarily make them a better *hybrid* athlete, but if we're talking about maximising pure climbing grade, then specialisation will require changes in body composition. The thing that makes Jason and Dan's comments true is the context of them speaking to a consumer who isn't carrying the muscle mass necessary for other sports (or not being an athlete in the first place); which makes it incidentally true for most people, but not universally.
This series is so underated !!
very nice/informative compilation with extremely hilarious meme clips :D
is there much research on yielding vs overcoming isometrics for tendon strength/stiffness? I see c4hp speak on this a lot, something to do with different fatigue mechanisms and concentric style (overcoming iso) leading to faster recovery?
These are phenomenal, please keep doing these videos!
Thanks!!
Love this style of videos
If you look at the pro level you see how important flexibility is. Probably the best example I can think of is this one incredible split by Alex Megos in a WC, but there are probably countless more examples
Agreed. Mobility is currently one of those areas where the research doesn't match what we see. There are very few clinically researched positions of mobility that have a significant correlation to climbing ability in research papers, but when you watch the sport you see how important good mobility can be.
i totally feel the hamstring issue! i thought i had strong ones, did always hamstring curls in the gym but my from was bad and when i tried to flex them i could never do it, i just didn't have the mind muscle connection. then my partner showed me some tricks on how to flex it, and immediately my heelhooks went from injury inducing to stable and nice and comfortable! great video as always!
He has a whole video on hamstrings and climbing i think
The "muscle confusion" thing is a tough one for me, since there's not a lot of research on the subject beyond some very specific measurements. It's also conflated with periodization, and I've heard the term used in non-strength-building training, like stability, reaction, and coordination work which depending on the sport can yield some tangential results. I've realized improvements in mountain biking (my other sport) this way. Certainly it's not what the P90x and crossfit crowd laud it to be, but something's going on.
Muscle confusion is good for keeping people interested in working out. That's it. If they're going to quit because they're bored, change the exercises.
The lack of a clear definition is a huge issue with terms like this
Muscle confusion in my opinion is moronic. My body just feels a stimulus (load) on its muscle and barely handled that load so next time it will be prepared for that load so I try and harder load. My muscles don’t realize “oh he’s doing bench press instead of push-ups now let’s explode his pecs”
Great video! Loved the clip of Dr. Mike at the start. Big fan of his as well. 👍
I got a good laugh out of that clip as well. Emile rocks the edits.
@@HoopersBetaAgreed! Awesome work!
I was in the Marines and part of our PFT (fitness test) is a 3 mile run. I was never a rabbit but always had a good time (21 - 24 min depending on how hard I pushed). I got into climbing after getting out of the Marines and got into pretty damn good shape. At one point a guy I worked with asked me to help him get into shape. I asked him what he wanted to do and he wanted to start with running. So I would get up early AF to run with him. At this point it had been years since I ran. We hit the track and I thought I was going to be winded but I flew. If I had to run 3 miles at the time I would guess my 3 mile time to be at 21 or less without having to "push" myself like I had to. So with all that said, I think it cardio is over-rated but you do need power-endurance sessions as part of your training for that to be true.
i love your memes dudes they make the bud so funny thanks for putting the effort in
Haha glad they get appreciated!
Wouldn't leg strength and cardio fitness be crucial for outdoor climbing too, not just movement on the rock? I'm thinking of long and/or steep approaches with heavy packs or multiple pads strapped to your back etc. I'm surprised they didn't mention that either.
People make this argument, but unless the objective is alpine or adventuresome then this does not add much. The Ceuse wall is a difficult approach, enough for many climbers to lose an attempt due to energy, but once at the wall this cardio and leg strength will do far less for the actual objective than time
better spent training for climbing in particular. Most distant objectives for sport climbers and boulderers... you can simply stop and rest on the approach, and we are not over the course of a day worried about changing weather patterns as say a week long approach onto an alpine tower would.
You should have a base of leg and cardio fitness, but these can be developed in climbing related training.
Leg strength and cardio are super necessary when you have long steep trekking or scrambling while carrying pads/gear and water.
For sure! Critical for conquering the approaches, and weakly beneficial for rope climbers overall, but not a *huge* driver for performance on the wall.
Absolutely nothing wrong with cardio, you just want to choose the right tool for the job! :)
Love the Dr. Mike cameo! Would love to see a Collab someday
That would be great!
Thank you!
“Climbers get rhabdo after KILLER leg day”
“These climbers can’t climb out of the Leg Press!”
The clickbait titles for an RP x Hoopers Beta collab video writes itself.
😂 match made in RUclips heaven
These are great! Thanks for the informative vid
ok
I'll do endurance training ☹️😤😂
I can’t believe Mike O’Tren has made an appearance in a climbing video
I love these videos there fun and informative please keep doing more
Will do! :)
What’s endurance in sport climbing anyway? It’s certainly not the type of cardiovascular endurance you need to complete a 5h bike race. Why do climbers have reduced strength levels after doing 5 hard moves? What are the biological processes? Is it build-up of lactic acid? Depletion of ATP?
The muscle growth one i found interesting. I would love to hear more in regards to caloric intake along with metabolism measurements (Is that a thing?) to go along with it. I for one have trained athletes who, no matter how much hypertrophy I try and introduce, it just doesn't build that much muscle. But on the flip have done almost none on some athletes and watched them gain INCHES in bicep growth / chest growth... Obviously age and hormones play a role as well, but ya. Curious.
Very good!
Still got a weird hand injury. Almost 4 months in. Just decided to start light climbing and hope it doesnt get worse lmao
how does progressive overload apply to dieting?
I sometimes wonder how much benefit climbers get past a certain point with flexibility. Ghisolfi recently did a video earlier this year with Lattice (I think?) and found that his flexibility wasn't great. Obviously he has plenty of other attributes that more than make up for any flexibility concerns, but I think this may indicate that the baseline flexibility needed for most climbing may be relatively low. The benefits of increasing flexibility past whatever that baseline is may be slim for most climbers.
Are scarecrows just as good of a option in comparison to face pulls if the traps are also trained saparately?
does climbing blindfolded increase Proprioception?
It’s not something I would ever recommend as a training tool for climbers
Bro I think ur onto something
I have actually used it in exactly
2 very specific cases 😂
Not something I would generally recommend though lol
It objectively increases coolness factor
They should've both been blindfolded for this interview (or separated when they give their answers). Bias be lurking.
I think in the discussion of muscle mass gains a crucial point was left out. Sure gaining too much muscle in unwanted regions will be detrimental, but the contribution of the forearm muscles to the total muscle mass is negligible. Recruitment will only get you so far. If you look at most pro-climbers, they have massive forearm hypertrophy. Anecdotally, my progress with max hangs always stagnated after about 4 weeks until switching to lower intensity and higher volume hangs (which by my guess cause more hypertrophy).
Left out? I don't think anyone would argue that building forearm muscle mass is detrimental, so it didn't even cross our minds to address it 😜
@@HoopersBeta Then I missinterpreted. Glad to hear we are on the same page :-)
What about concentric without curling the fingers ? Using a mesurement tool to mesure the amount of strenght.
If you're referring to recruitment pulls or overcoming isometrics, we are working on a video about that :)
@@HoopersBetaTalking about Tyler Nelson recent protocole (c4HP)
The memes are on point in this one. Great video otherwise too. Dan struggling with the signs as always 😅
Yo, quick question for a young climber, I’m having a hard time finding a set in stone answer when it comes to how many calories I should be eating should I be counting my calories and how much do I need to eat too gain more lean strength. Do you have any answers for this?
There is no set in stone answer for that question, there are only multiple options you can choose from depending on your preferences, personal history, and goals. You don’t need to count calories if you don’t want to or are at risk of disordered eating, but it’s often helpful for people to get some baseline of their daily energy expenditure because not everyone has a good intuition for how much they need to eat (the feeling of hunger is affected by MANY things, not just the physiological need for energy - so people that say “just eat when you’re hungry” are not providing useful advice). If you want to gain strength, you don’t necessarily have to eat more (though it may be useful depending on your current diet). If you’re very skinny, eating more can make it easier to gain muscle mass, which will facilitate strength gains. MacroFactor is our app of choice for diet tracking, but is certainly not necessary. You can also use a bathroom scale to weigh yourself on a consistent basis and get some idea of your energy expenditure that way.
-Emile
Top memes
Oh I dunno. Training heavy and climbing lite has benefits.
Concentric finger training is usually done with a gripper. I would not dismiss that mode of training so readily. I’ve been experimenting with grippers for about a month and I’ve definitely think there is a place for them in the climbing training tool belt.
I laughed out loud at the Walking Dead meme
Stretching will save your life.❤️
feels like you should've taken a break midway, would've helped with focus. Said respectfully and positive,.
Noted! Thanks for the feedback, and for the tone explanation :)
Algogogo
If you wrote the same words on both sides of the sign, then you wouldn't have to peek to remember which is which.
That would make it way too easy! 😂
Such a great video, I feel the psyche ❤
These guys are too in the weeds to give any real answer on any of these.
Acting like putting on too much muscle is a real risk for climbing is INSANE.
You'd need to do WAY more hypertrophy training than climbing to put on so much muscle it hinders your climbing.
If you're gaining muscle. You're stronger. It's VERY hard to gain a pound of muscle and NOT have it increase your relative strength by less than 1 pound.
Unless you eat/train like a bodybuilder. You won't gain that kind of muscle.
Be as strong as you can, it'll only help climbing.
They gave pretty much the same answer...
@@НиколайТобиасyeah, pretty sure that’s exactly what we said… but maybe something was lost in translation 🤷🏻♂️
Genuinely loving this series. Helpful, informative, and I love juicy debates mmm. Cheers lads
Nice! Stoked to hear that. They were honestly quite fun for us to film too.
I had just watched Emil's story about how he gained so much power when he gained a significant amount of weight. His message was to train hard and fuel for that and eventually your performance improves
Been on that face pull game for years now boys. Props
DOCTOR MIKE REFERENCE
Love the little Dr Mike clip in there 😂
A suggestion for this video format would be to write on the back of the signs too to avoid having turning it to look what you are choosing every time 😂
Haha not a bad call 😅
Edit: but then that might take away from some of the laughter watching us struggle to select the correct sign 😉
thank you guys, awesome video and the special thank you from all of us who genuinely hate cardio...
My interest in rock climbing stems from my children, we watch together. I would love an episode dedicated to research in youth climbing.
Not much research in this area I’m afraid.
We’ll try to keep the youth in mind though! Hello to you and the kids!
Hey, I'd love to see a more extensive video on the PE Exercise that Dan is doing in this vid.
My gym boulders aren't well suited for 4x4s (also often too crowded), so I can pretty much only use the Moonboard. I would appreciate some pointers on what to look out for in circuits and potential ways to structure the training. I also see him using all feet, but the specified hands for the downclimbs. Why? :D
Thanks for the content!
He probably used all feet because feet are hard to see on a moonboard (because the light is under the hold) and too much hassle to remember them all
Nope!
I use open feet for moon circuits because it lets me chose and use a broader array of movement styles (and typically a better flow) than tracking does. It also gives me access to a broader array of holds at similar difficulty (better feet to support “bad” holds and worse feet or positions to stress “good” holds)
Finally, it poses a greater demand on visualization and memorization by having to remember which feet as well as hands for a full circuit.
Note that in this case, open feet are not “any feet”, they’re additional holds specifically selected for the climb. I’m not choosing which feet to use on the fly.
Thats a good answer! Great video too btw!
@@dagasmundhelland6931 thank you! Glad you liked it!
@@danielbeall7725 Makes sense, thank you!
So my guess is to structure the sessions basically exactly like classical 4x4 sessions and to find suitable circuits (and their "special" feet) by trial and error and with some specificity to current projects (like hold sizes/types, movement patterns, etc.)?
I dont understand the difference between a 'face pull' and a 'standing W'. Is there a key difference? They look very similar to eachother.
Good question! Yes there is a difference and believe it or not it does matter :) The difference is in the position/angle of the arm(humerus) and shoulder blade (scapula). With the W, both of them (shoulder and scapular) are at lower positions than the Facepull. This changes the activation patterns of muscles, and even the overall stability of the position for the shoulder. As such, the W is often slightly easier for most people to get proper form with, whereas the Facepull can be seen as an advancement. If you can do the facepull properly (good form, no pain etc) then that is often the preferred final form, but both are still good exercises.
@@HoopersBeta thank you very much for the reply. So resistance band at shoulder height for the W then a bit higher, face height, for face pull?
these videos are high key sooooo good
Thank you! They were quite fun for us to make so glad the final product was enjoyable. Should we make more?! :)
@@HoopersBeta yessss for sure!
Dr Mike 😢
Thanks for the tips and info always. Can someone tell me the best moment durante training to practice endurance?
For boulderers I would do it at the end of a climbing session
-Emile
Thanks a lot!! 😊
I find it interesting that you use creatine and ag together. Do they partner well for nutrient absorption?
Nope! Just taste good together haha
Sheer convenience for me!
Good to hear mention of the concentric finger training, although I think few climbers discuss the concentric currently and isometric overcoming exercises have become the focus.
On the notion of the eccentric and friction around the PIP joint, this is specifically why I have begun a BFR protocol to reduce the weight to sub 60% MVC where we notice the PIP joint almost locking entirely. Plus, helps to recruit the Type ii muscle fibers without an obscene number of repetitions which would similarly cause issue to the PIP in particular.
However, would disagree about the concentric is dissimilar to climbing, at least high intensity climbing where we almost never get to hit a hold statically in the grip position desired and maintain that position all the way through the next movement. The concentric is far more similar than the yielding exercise.
running a mile is not cardio, wtf
What?
Cardio training is pretty important for me-
1) it helps to control my weight (I'm not gonna lie- I like to eat)
2) It helps me to stay focused and motivated during the rest days
But to be honest it took me quite a lot of time to actually like running.
Cardio is great! And offers lots of general health benefits as well.
Our point was only that it’s not likely to lead (by itself) to significantly increased climbing performance.
It’s great for general fitness and athleticism, it’s great for moderating daily caloric expenditure, it’s good for heart health, lung health, etc.
Can be good for longer sport or trad routes, and definitely good for approaches.
“Overrated” was not intended to mean “not good”
@@danielbeall7725 Sure, I think you made it pretty clear that it's overrated in terms of bouldering performance
I just wanted to share my experience on cardio, so maybe it will be easier for others to make a decision :)
@@Wiktorthemes totally valid, and thanks for sharing!
I think your point about motivation on rest days is especially good. :)