It can be if you want it that way ... There's ways to build engines more efficiently and father more power than he thinks. His obstinance is not truth or wisdom.
THIS MAN IS A EXCELLENT INSTRUCTOR ..IF I WERE IN HIS CLASS I WOULD GET THE FRONT SEAT WOULDNT WANT TO MISS NOTHING..GREAT PRESENTATION ..I CAN TELL HE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ALONG TIME..
Thank you! This is absolutely, without a doubt, the most informative and intelligent explanation I have found for specing out a cam. I am starting to plan a build on my 2001 corvette and will definitely be refering back to this video when it comes time to select a camshaft. I want the lumpy idle but more importantly, I want a cam that works with my set up and my needs more than just a sound. Thank you again!!!
Awesome video. It is so freaking hard to find someone who wants to build a motor for efficiency over a dollar and bragging rights that doesn't matter. You started to touch on the LS3/ L99. I would appreciate the hell out of it if you would make a video about that/them. Thanks for what you do! If it wasn't for people like you the car world wouldn't be the same today!
I went to Hi-Tech back in 2004 to get their custom grind cam for my 2000 Camaro LS/MT. I had all bolt ons and was looking for a little more power. I installed the cam and took it to Hi-Tech to get it tuned. Car ran perfect , I sold the car back in 2013 - Hi-Tech knows these LS motors! Glad to see you guys making YT vids!
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’m coming from the sport bike world to Chevys and LS motors. This helps me figure out cams to look at.
At 16:34 you nailed it man I made an LS cam selection video based on what we learned on the dyno over the years, I am astounded at how close your numbers are to mine I knew most of this but it's nice to get some confirmation anyway I have been saying the exact same thing with good flowing heads a ton of overlap is not only not necessary it causes lousy performance good video
Watched yours as well, chose a 217/225 .595 .587 114+2 Cam Motion cam for a 6.0 in my almost 4k lb street car, for all the reasons you both talk about. More concerned with driveability and low/mid torque than max peak hp. Not installed yet as it's my daily driver, I think I made a good choice. Your thoughts on my selection ?
I want to spend my money with this guy. Very transparent. Most guys just want your money and send you on your way instead of educating you to get the best bang for your buck.
Awsome to hear an experienced engine builder with real world knowledge talk about something so complex and makes it easy to understand. Where was this video in my life? Lets blow this video up
Thank you for the great information. I completely agree with what you said. I've learned the hard way over the years and also seen many people make the mistake of over camming engines and end up unhappy with performance.
Thanks for the video Bart. I'm stroking my LS1 to 383 and it is supercharged with a Harrop HTV1900. Currently has the stock cam in it (heads, valve springs, arp bolts, forged internals already but swapping some out). This video has been very helpful. I'm putting in a 224/230 .6 & .61 lift at 112 LSA. I'm not chasing power but low down torque and want to use a standard stall. I also want a little chop and the 112 LSA will give 3 degrees of overlap. Yes, I'll be losing boost but I'm not chasing max hp, just want that low down torque and a little chop. Also concerns about the blower running out of puff high in the rpm range, hence the cam size. Car is a WK Grange. Thanks from Australia!
Awesome vid! It's had to believe people are still trying to run big camshafts with a stock converter... The factory grinds are almost big enough to warrant a stall converter. Gotta love the torque of a mild cam in an LS on the street... Everything feels like the old 327-375hp these days...❤
The 233/253 @ 0.050 .646/.637 on a 112+4 in my LS3 Camaro would probably fall on the extreme/max effort end of your scale - but even with stock compression it performs well and has surprisingly good manners for 19* of overlap at 0.050. It's ahead on power and torque for 3200 on up, picked up 70hp at the wheels, and 6-7mph in the quarter mile (probably more if I could get more than 4.10 in the rear). Sure, dynamic compression took a pretty good hit with that much overlap, but eventually I'll get these heads milled and bring that back. Honestly, it's street manners aren't bad at all for what it is, I put about 5k miles a year on the car, and I'm smiling the whole time. I'm sure it's not news to you, but you never touched on tuning in your video. I don't think you can overstate how important that is to the way any camshaft is going to drive. A poor tune will make a mild cam drive like trash, and a good tune can take a rowdy piece and make it very reasonable to live with. I've nitpicked mine to death myself over the last few years, and the little things like injection timing and light load spark tuning makes all the difference in those bad manners areas. But great video - I think you stressed a key factor really well: be honest about what you really want to do with the vehicle, and make a choice based on usage, not what sounds cool. If you're not willing to put a converter and gears in it, and not willing to tolerate some misbehavior, stay away from big duration stuff!
LMAO - this shows up in my recommendations and 3 minutes in, I am thinking to myself I need to go to Wallace Racing and use their calculators again... Such a wonderful resource, just gotta make sure you know what those number mean and remember your conversion factors.
if you just want the "chop Chop" use a 232/242 on a 108 lobe sep. it wont pull its way out of a wet paper bag, and it will get 9 mpg but it will give you Chop Chop. but i will not grind it for you.
I’m about to do a ls swap in my 1990 gmc short bed with 373 posi , I want the maximum hp I can get ,but I want a fair fuel economy.Im planning on really just installing a cam for power purpose,because they usually sound good either way so can you help me determine which cam to use for a stock 5.3 or 6.0 ls swap
Dear Lo-Tech. Check out Richard Holdener's channel. He has 100's if not 1000's of dyno runs documented. He did testing on LS cam LSA. He literally tested the exact cam you said would not not pull it's way out of wet paper bag. Guess what? It made the most power. Not just the most peak power, it made the most power everywhere on the curve. Just search LSA cam test. Maybe you might learn something. PS if you want good gas mileage get a KIA.
Best info I've heard so far, to purchase the right stuff!!👍 I'll be in this week with the grandson to help with his 5.7LS. We're in Foley, just a skip away, Thank you
Great video , thank you . Now back in the day PAW advertised a SBC cam that stated it WAS a 360/360 , always got a chuckle from that and you just reminded me ....thanks again
EVERYONE STOP AND READ THIS!!!! This Guy Is An Absolute Amateur in Valve Event Timing... The info in this vid is about useless if your actually looking for max tq, hp & trapped Volumetric efficiency across the entire curve in an LS or any given v8 engine combo... Any body that sees this i highly recomend Watching bolth of Cattledog Garage's camshaft videos if you want pro stock level knowledge and beyond, Adam at Cattledog Garage explains stuff that dont exist anywhere on the entire internet and with dyno data for proof of concept to back up his words... Im a 73 year old ex Pro stock & Nascar engine builder, ive learned more from listening to Adam at Cattledog Garage for 2 hours than i have from a 3day $1200 David Vizard Seminar and more than the entirety of Billy Godbolds newest Book... Adam is an absolute Genious!!!
4.8/5.3L if you want to keep stock stall and trans go with something around 205-216 intake 210-220 exhaust range. Barts 223/227 cam will need a stall converter, which is perfectly fine. However, on my daily driver and for towing I like the stock stall.
Good info! About three years after this video the hot LS truck cam is the Truck Norris which has a really narrow LSA (~108). This guy likes wide LSA’s after thousands of dyno runs! What gives?!? I know that a torquey street engine can be had with a little compression, smaller ports for higher velocity and a narrow LSA. I have a BBC set up that way and it’s nasty as a porta potty on a hot day!
I put a big circle track cam in my car when I was in my teens, it sounded mean, had top end, but all but needed a push start, I had to slip the clutch alot to get it moving, that didn't last long, I don't remember the spec's, but it had over 300° dur, and 106 lsa, it was crap until about 4k and wanted to keep going above 7k, I think it was a 4500-8500 cam, I'd had to put 4.88:1 gears to run that thing it would still been crappy, I had a truck also, I could jerk the doors on a cobra mustang, on the highway, but it didn't have that low down tq, I made a guy with that cobra feel bad, after spending all that money, then get out run by a 5,000 lb truck, I totally respect your knowledge, I'm here because I don't know LS engines, and looking for a decent Street cam for a 4.8 in a s10, with a turbo, and about 10-15 psi, I'd like the boost to give it the top end, and allow the cam to keep the 1500-2500 rpm tq, I'll probably be running a small amount of stall, maybe 500 over stock, so not really a stall converter, with stock 4.3 auto gears, and probably run the v6 converter, now I'm thinking about it, I know the 4L60's aren't the best, but I'm not racing on the strip, maybe the occasional trip down the track, I want the most power I can get, with the best mileage also, 3k at 65 is not me, (anymore) gas is too high, thanks for the video
I designed and built my own cylinder head with rotating tubes where I had to guess the values by myself. I ended up at about 250/250 with a 110 LSA @ 0.050" equivalent. It has about 4-5 inches of vacuum at 700 RPM idle. I was hoping it would work well at 6k+ rpm, but oddly enough the airflow is similar to stock between 4,000-7,000 rpm and a bit better below 4k. If I did it again, I would certainly go to something like 230/230 since it flows better than a poppet valve engine and so I can improve the idle.
Jesus brought me to this channel!!! About to rebuild my 2006 GMC Sierra CrewCab w/5.3L, and it’s an everyday truck, that occasionally pulls a trailer full of landscaping materials. I don’t need a Sloppy Stage II cam, for sure. Thank you for real world application information🙏🏽💯✊🏽
I got a 5.3/t56 with sloppy stage 2 cam idle set at 900rpm and man she idles aggressive . Car moves side to side at idle I love it. Only paid $229 with pac springs and install was a breeze
I'm in New Zealand trying to choose a new ls1cam for my Holden Commodore and with the awesome information I've just received from you and this grouse video all I can say is sweet as cuzzy bro I've got a better understanding of what I need to do now tumeke cuz👍👍
Thank you sir this video is helping me out alot im going to drop either a 5.3 or6.0 in my single cab silverado im going to use it everyday as a daily but every now and then ill race it and didnt want to buy a cam i wasnt going to be happy with and this video gave me a new view at cams
You don’t choose a cam for an engine, you choose a cam for that engines end use. If you want a perfect cam, you’ll never find one. Every single grind has its own personality. Horsepower , Torque, or somewhere in the middle. You will make gains in some areas and lose in others. Thats the facts.
Wow I followed this channel a long time ago because of Tallguy, now I stumble across your video today while I'm looking for tips building this ls for my Regal. Small racing world
I was talking to a woman I know, who DOES understand cars TO A POINT, and she is a math wizard with a college degree. She looked at me during one of our conversations about old cars and racing, and finally said to me "How can a 305 small block Chevy be faster than a same car with a 350 cubic inch engine?" and I looked at her and said "It is all in the math!" and for a moment she looked at me like I was lying to her in that answer!!! BUT has I went on to explain, you have to know EVERYTHING about the set up you are running!! Weight of the vehicle MATTERS, final drive gear ratios MATTER, and as I further explained to her as well, transmission gears, even engine performance parts ALL MATTER!!! Change ONE small thing in any engine and you can out run (on a drag strip) a V8 engine with a inline 6, if you have done the math correctly because EVERYTHING YOU DO to the car AND MOTOR as well as any gears in between MATTER!!!! And for a moment she looked at me confused!!! The sad thing is, I have seen guys try to run HUGE cams in a car that run like garbage on the high side of the power curve, but seem to run solid but sluggish on the take off, only making power mid way. I have seen guys run cams that are too small that make INSANE off the line power but fall flat shortly after take off, because they just didn't have enough cam to satisfy the same mid way power curve!! I have even seen guys who think stuffing a large carb on an engine will "fix this" and totally ignore allowing the exhaust to flow, and the list of things I have seen goes on and on and on from there to 4.11 rear gears in a car that just can't handle such a steep tooth in "normal" applications, when they should have ran something more "realistic" like 3.73 instead!!! Facts as they say DO NOT LIE!!! And it is all in the numbers!!! And you can stick in the biggest big block you can stuff into a car, and think "This will be fast" but if you ignore the rest of the numbers you might as well take all your work and hard earned money out into the driveway and set it all on fire.......because all you are doing is wasting your time if you don't do the math and follow the numbers with a fine tooth comb!!!!
Good job! I actually understand the theory behind this now! Well explained my friend! I used to say it back in v8 vega days... it's all in the heads! Its flow!
After what feels like half a lifetime spent trying to find the real story on cam selection for my 6.2 LS3 this video was like a breath of fresh air. Thank you for sharing your wisdom! I have a daily driver that I want to take road racing on weekends. I want to maintain driveability, make more power, and lope a bit at idle. Do you have a recommendation for a streetable 6.2 LS3 Camaro?
The right cam and the wrong cam cost the same amount and generally people over cam not under cam and loose power in the range they use there engine and I laugh when people act like they know more than guy like you that dyno prove there theory and do it for a living great video lots of great info
Hate to correct you, but more overlap does not mean less cylinder pressure for the same duration cams. When you tighten the LC you are advancing the intake lobe which closes the valve sooner. Hence higher psi cranking pressure. Most oval track cars run 104 to 105 LC to help accelerate out of the corner. When I worked at Camonics years ago we found 105 to 106 made the highest peak power but the worst idle. 113 to 116 made less peak power but the best idle. Engines that are FI typically run wider LCs due to idle issues with low vacuum. This is naturally aspirated as turbos and blown cars favor 116 LC to keep from blowing the charge out the exhaust port. Your video is somewhat correct but you fail to talk about other items such as exhaust type, compression ratios, etc. which also factors into this.
Thanks so much.... starting a new project and came across your video. To my surprise I know your work from "Tall Guy" hellcat... I'm in the midst of selecting a cam for my 2001 ls1 camaro. The info you presented will help a lot. Thanks again.
What cam did u end up with. I built a vortec back in 2001. 700 carb, edelbrock performer intake and a 282/286 110° with a 106° centerline from reed cams. Put out 420hp. It was hard on the rocker to valve surface though. Im wanting to build another but would like to know how yours turned out with his combo. Id like to copy it. Thx
Needing a recommendation for a cam to go into my 6.0 motor, from an '03 Silverado. Swapping it along w/ @ 4L80 trans into my '92 K1500. Moving into a very fast paced city driving situation, so basically 0-60 quickness is key. But I do a lot of interstate travel too. Just tired of getting dusted in town with my TBI... Great vids, they're very informative and appreciated !
For me I try to make the most average power in the rpm range the engine is designed for, hence why its extremely important to be honest with yourself about what you are going to do with vehicle
I went with what they recommend 231 243 duration @ 116 + 6 degrees.. 9 psi magi supercharger w/ stock heads 488 gears.And performed awesome. On the next bill going to order heads and cam as recommended , big dia. Header ...response was Instantaneous. I’ll always go with recommendations of cam heads after talking to the pros , BUT they have to listen to YOU and YOU have to listen to them
pretty sure tighter LSA usually ends up closing intake earlier which traps more air and increases DCR which boost cylinder pressure and that's why tight LSA cams tend to make more power. I went with a 218/227 112 +2° for my 6.0 2500HD, 10.6:1 comp
Well explained and helped me out in choosing the cam for my needs. Thank you !!!! A good video on ported heads like small valve, dimple port , 365 cfm, 409 cfm etc would be nice
Richard Holdner tested an LS down to 108 LSA and it made the best power everywhere. He also tested the loss of pressure and guess what no problem. The problem is everyone wants lots of duration and most small blocks don't need it. Run more conservative duration and tighten the LSA. You will make more average power. Fat area under the curve.
I love you everything you said about the LS1 LS 2 camshafts and all the tech inspects but I didn't hear nothing about the LS3 . I thought you were going to talk about the LS3 also which is the best motor they made in the LS series
Great video Bart. Thanks for sharing your knowledge . Rebuilding my 6.0 in my 06 Hummer. Do you have a cam idea for towing 4000 lbs and street? Have another set of heads ported for it and 1.8 ratio roller rockers .
Mr Wallace, there is only 1 thing you didn't cover. Crane Cam had a theory called hydralic intensity which covered the spread between .050s and advertised (where they measured at SAE standard or 004s). Comp Cams mesured advertised at .006s, which means you would have to add another 10 degrees at their advertised figures. Generally, if the spread was tightest between the 2 figures, and the most valve lift generated the most hp and torque figures. As far for Comp Cams, I always considered their Xtreme Cam line a pretty close copy of Crane cams. I also wish you had covered using variable duration lifters with large cams to widen out the power band as well. This has been the best discussion of selecting a camshaft for an engine as well I have seen.
I like what you’re saying it’s actually better to go with a smaller camshaft to get a bigger performance and track ability. Especially when it’s a daily driver. I’ll be watching.
I have this setup LS2 engine with milled and CNC ported LS3 heads 11.1 compression l have a crane hydraulic roller with LS7 lifters you'll need a good set of hardened pushrods a good SFI harmonic balancer the cam specs are 226 intake 236 exhaust lift on intake is.551 on exhaust .600 on a engine dyno with no accessories it makes 540hp at 6900rpm 470 foot pounds of torque at 5200rpm at the crank and 400 foot pounds of torque or more from 3000rpm to 7200rpm it pulls very very hard in this range and redlines very fast it idles decent with a slight chop at 800rpm this setup does lose torque below 2400rpm but it's not drastic and runs smooth from 2000rpm up it's in a 1984 monte carlo ss it weighs 3380 with me in it it has a 3000 stall converter and 4.10 gears it is a weekend cruiser it has been in the car since 2008 and runs as good or better than when first put in but it's maintained very well with oil changes ECT it's best quarter mile time was 10.87 at 122.9mph which got me kicked off the track because of no rollbar but it had made 8 passes before in the 11.0 to 11.3 this setup will work good if your car is 3600 pounds or lighter with you in it it's not the right choice for a heavy 4200 pound or more truck or big heavy car and my car has power steering and brakes a 700r4 transmission with a lockup torque converter suspension is drag springs all the way around and lift bars in rear no coilovers stock type suspension it is driven to the track raced and driven home no trailer it also has a GM performance single plane intake and a holley HP 850cfm carburetor so l don't know how well this cam will work on late model fuel injection but I'm more than happy with this setup
@@crw3673 keep duration under 230 on intake and under 240 on exhaust unless it's a drag car with a 4500rpm stall to 5000rpm keep lift at or under 600 unless your going to put forged pistons with valve reliefs and it will run good and last a long time without headaches
@@crw3673 l also have a 15 percent underdrive pulley with a good electric fan it runs at 180 degrees even if in traffic or idling for long periods in 95 degree florida heat using a 1970 chevelle 454 4 core radiator the LSA on my cam is 112
@@gloriamaletta8667 this is for a 4 gen Camaro, with a t56 tran and 3.73 12 bolt rear end. This car will 95% street and 5% strip. Would love to see it idle around 600 - 800 rpm. But needs to have good street and highway manners. Am I asking too much?
What an good spec cam for an 383 ls1 stroker with trickflow 220 heads with 2.055 intake valves and 1.57 exhaust valves and fast 102 intake and Tb , I had an 240/250 cam speced and the car felt like an dog , and only trapped 117mph in the 1/4 mile
Do you happen to have a part number for the 223 227 cam? I bought an Lq4 for my 1997 Z71 pickup. I was going to go with a stock cam, but a little more power would be nice! Thanks.
Great video. Thank you Question? With long tube headers using your recommendation for my 2001 Silverado 5.3, of cam 223/227 600/600 should I plan on flowing heads and valve springs with hardened pushrods or keep what I’ve got Valve wise=stock? Also, torque converter, stock or high stall?
Great vid Bart! Wish I would've found it sooner. Maybe could've done better on the cam I chose. However, it seems good enough for now. Also really appreciated your services when I had you tune my El Camino. I'll definitely recommend your business to others!
1HP = 550Lbs moving up vertically 1 foot in one second. Horse pulling a rope over a pulley. At the other end of the rope is a 550Lb load being lifted out of a mine shaft.
I would argue that the 1.5 is typical but not a hard rule. Look at Ford gen 3 coyotes and 5.2s. They develop more than 1.5 per cube from the factory. With 1.82 per cube in their 5.2l crate engine. Aside from the physics of DOHC vs OHV I think 90 percent of their benefits are from being able to individually swing intake/exhaust independently by a large degree very quickly.
Not too hard to work out, but you need to need to do some math... Do you have tractor tyres on it? Is it a Mini? What gearbox / trans? What gear ratios? How long is a piece of string? All stuff that can be worked out quite simply with math. But in a nut shell you need to work out how many revs you are doing at around town speeds (and what gear) and how many revs at highway speeds (and what gear). You can find a number of tyre circumference calculators online and use your tyre profile. I.E 235/45 - R17 will give you x mm per tyre revolution. You already know you diff ratio, now you need to know each of the gear ratios in your gearbox / trans (if auto does it have a lockup convertors or will it slip?). Hopefully you can see where I am going with this... Some math later later and you know what rev range you will be sitting in for the biggest part of your driving. You go with a cam that is in it's sweet spot at those revs. So lets say you are doing 2500 at highway speeds you don't want a cam that starts at 3500, or it will dog along until it gains another 1000 rpm.
So what would the ideal cam be for an ls3 daily driver looking for the best performance while still keeping good road manners and a little bit of an idle
vortec truck cams are different. the heads are only good for 540 lift with the guides. if you are still using the fuel injection system use a 220/224 540/540, on a 114 lobe sep. the vortec heads are very good but they have some limitations with the valve springs and fuel injection. b
I have a truck motor but it’s going into a car. 2002 5.3 going into a 96 impala. Looking for great torque and cruising characteristics. Plus a great sound. Would you run a cam designed for a truck still? Since the car is so big
Hi-Tech MotorSport I have 2 trucks one with a gen 3 5.3, the other with a new 6.2 and I want to turbo one and supercharge the other, so one on turbo cams would be nice too I suppose, as well as heads in relation to forced induction.
He’s like a parent telling you something you don’t want to hear .....but you know they are right !
Ya, absolutely,
Bow that you mentioned it. lol , like. "Listen, I'm only gonna tell you this once".
Lmao
It can be if you want it that way ...
There's ways to build engines more efficiently and father more power than he thinks. His obstinance is not truth or wisdom.
someone actually explain something really well thank you sir
When the man wears his glasses at the tip of his nose, he knows his stuff!! Glad he spent some time for this video! Thank you
THIS MAN IS A EXCELLENT INSTRUCTOR ..IF I WERE IN HIS CLASS I WOULD GET THE FRONT SEAT WOULDNT WANT TO MISS NOTHING..GREAT PRESENTATION ..I CAN TELL HE BEEN DOING THIS FOR ALONG TIME..
Thank you! This is absolutely, without a doubt, the most informative and intelligent explanation I have found for specing out a cam. I am starting to plan a build on my 2001 corvette and will definitely be refering back to this video when it comes time to select a camshaft. I want the lumpy idle but more importantly, I want a cam that works with my set up and my needs more than just a sound. Thank you again!!!
I also have a 2001 corvette and i want to start modifying the engine! What cam did you end up getting? Any suggestions?
I would put a 221 225 on a 112 and it will roast tires all day because torque will come in sooner
@@utahcountypicazospage5412 I run a 224/228 on 112 .550 lift in my 98 z28 LS1. 3200 rpm stall 2.1 torque converter.
Awesome video. It is so freaking hard to find someone who wants to build a motor for efficiency over a dollar and bragging rights that doesn't matter. You started to touch on the LS3/ L99. I would appreciate the hell out of it if you would make a video about that/them. Thanks for what you do! If it wasn't for people like you the car world wouldn't be the same today!
Ah, what id pay to spend a day wrenching with this guy. Thanks for the knowledge, from Canada.
I went to Hi-Tech back in 2004 to get their custom grind cam for my 2000 Camaro LS/MT. I had all bolt ons and was looking for a little more power. I installed the cam and took it to Hi-Tech to get it tuned. Car ran perfect , I sold the car back in 2013 - Hi-Tech knows these LS motors! Glad to see you guys making YT vids!
Where are they located?
@@grand3lyfecuhh798 Minnesota
What cam specs
Keep them coming. The numbers will come. We're watching all the knowledge
Just wanted to say thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’m coming from the sport bike world to Chevys and LS motors. This helps me figure out cams to look at.
At 16:34 you nailed it man I made an LS cam selection video based on what we learned on the dyno over the years, I am astounded at how close your numbers are to mine I knew most of this but it's nice to get some confirmation anyway I have been saying the exact same thing with good flowing heads a ton of overlap is not only not necessary it causes lousy performance good video
Watched yours as well, chose a 217/225 .595 .587 114+2 Cam Motion cam for a 6.0 in my almost 4k lb street car, for all the reasons you both talk about. More concerned with driveability and low/mid torque than max peak hp. Not installed yet as it's my daily driver, I think I made a good choice. Your thoughts on my selection ?
Looking back at your cam selection video , I already asked your opinion 8 months ago 😂👍
I want to spend my money with this guy. Very transparent. Most guys just want your money and send you on your way instead of educating you to get the best bang for your buck.
same. or tell you they recommend going all acdelco everything and that they dont know about anything aftermarket.
Didn’t sound at all like rambling, just experience and knowledge. Great video Bart !
I’ve learned more from this guy than I have from mechanics from my hometown. Thank you.
Awsome to hear an experienced engine builder with real world knowledge talk about something so complex and makes it easy to understand. Where was this video in my life? Lets blow this video up
Bart did work on my 02 Mustang, I couldn't have been happier! He's a great guy to talk to! If you go to his shop, prepare to drool!! ~SGT. Hot Wheels.
my first week starting ls swaps, I sold 4 in a week and thank-you for the info. With this, I'll be better able to make my customers happy.
The Guru broke it down for us. Really appreciate the science. Great vid
Thank you sr. I followed you instructions and ran a 12.00 with a 6.0 in a 3000lb truck and it feels great.
what cam specs?
Thank you for the great information. I completely agree with what you said. I've learned the hard way over the years and also seen many people make the mistake of over camming engines and end up unhappy with performance.
I stumbled on this video and it is the best tech info I have heard in years. Thank you!!
Thanks for the video Bart. I'm stroking my LS1 to 383 and it is supercharged with a Harrop HTV1900. Currently has the stock cam in it (heads, valve springs, arp bolts, forged internals already but swapping some out). This video has been very helpful. I'm putting in a 224/230 .6 & .61 lift at 112 LSA. I'm not chasing power but low down torque and want to use a standard stall. I also want a little chop and the 112 LSA will give 3 degrees of overlap. Yes, I'll be losing boost but I'm not chasing max hp, just want that low down torque and a little chop. Also concerns about the blower running out of puff high in the rpm range, hence the cam size. Car is a WK Grange. Thanks from Australia!
Awesome vid! It's had to believe people are still trying to run big camshafts with a stock converter... The factory grinds are almost big enough to warrant a stall converter. Gotta love the torque of a mild cam in an LS on the street... Everything feels like the old 327-375hp these days...❤
Thank you for sharing your experience and knowledge!
This was the best information on cams ive ever seen well done my friend
I just want that Chop-Chop.
literally this. f the EPA I wanna spit flaaamez
Check out tick cams!
cackle cackle cackle
228/232 .550 109lsa chop chop chop
The 233/253 @ 0.050 .646/.637 on a 112+4 in my LS3 Camaro would probably fall on the extreme/max effort end of your scale - but even with stock compression it performs well and has surprisingly good manners for 19* of overlap at 0.050. It's ahead on power and torque for 3200 on up, picked up 70hp at the wheels, and 6-7mph in the quarter mile (probably more if I could get more than 4.10 in the rear). Sure, dynamic compression took a pretty good hit with that much overlap, but eventually I'll get these heads milled and bring that back. Honestly, it's street manners aren't bad at all for what it is, I put about 5k miles a year on the car, and I'm smiling the whole time.
I'm sure it's not news to you, but you never touched on tuning in your video. I don't think you can overstate how important that is to the way any camshaft is going to drive. A poor tune will make a mild cam drive like trash, and a good tune can take a rowdy piece and make it very reasonable to live with. I've nitpicked mine to death myself over the last few years, and the little things like injection timing and light load spark tuning makes all the difference in those bad manners areas.
But great video - I think you stressed a key factor really well: be honest about what you really want to do with the vehicle, and make a choice based on usage, not what sounds cool. If you're not willing to put a converter and gears in it, and not willing to tolerate some misbehavior, stay away from big duration stuff!
the Legend
@@Ws6Ms lol!
Hey Andrew, where can I message you about finding a cam setup for my ls3?
LMAO - this shows up in my recommendations and 3 minutes in, I am thinking to myself I need to go to Wallace Racing and use their calculators again... Such a wonderful resource, just gotta make sure you know what those number mean and remember your conversion factors.
if you just want the "chop Chop" use a 232/242 on a 108 lobe sep. it wont pull its way out of a wet paper bag, and it will get 9 mpg but it will give you Chop Chop. but i will not grind it for you.
I’m about to do a ls swap in my 1990 gmc short bed with 373 posi , I want the maximum hp I can get ,but I want a fair fuel economy.Im planning on really just installing a cam for power purpose,because they usually sound good either way so can you help me determine which cam to use for a stock 5.3 or 6.0 ls swap
Hi-Tech MotorSport Lol that son of a bitch is weaker than cat piss!
@@marvisblockum1327 he is giving you the info you need
Dear Lo-Tech. Check out Richard Holdener's channel. He has 100's if not 1000's of dyno runs documented. He did testing on LS cam LSA. He literally tested the exact cam you said would not not pull it's way out of wet paper bag. Guess what? It made the most power. Not just the most peak power, it made the most power everywhere on the curve. Just search LSA cam test. Maybe you might learn something. PS if you want good gas mileage get a KIA.
I have an lq4 with 706 heads. Was thinking 210/213 @.050 600/600 on a 108. Should make good torque?
Best info I've heard so far, to purchase the right stuff!!👍 I'll be in this week with the grandson to help with his 5.7LS. We're in Foley, just a skip away, Thank you
Great video , thank you . Now back in the day PAW advertised a SBC cam that stated it WAS a 360/360 , always got a chuckle from that and you just reminded me ....thanks again
EVERYONE STOP AND READ THIS!!!! This Guy Is An Absolute Amateur in Valve Event Timing... The info in this vid is about useless if your actually looking for max tq, hp & trapped Volumetric efficiency across the entire curve in an LS or any given v8 engine combo... Any body that sees this i highly recomend Watching bolth of Cattledog Garage's camshaft videos if you want pro stock level knowledge and beyond, Adam at Cattledog Garage explains stuff that dont exist anywhere on the entire internet and with dyno data for proof of concept to back up his words... Im a 73 year old ex Pro stock & Nascar engine builder, ive learned more from listening to Adam at Cattledog Garage for 2 hours than i have from a 3day $1200 David Vizard Seminar and more than the entirety of Billy Godbolds newest Book...
Adam is an absolute Genious!!!
4.8/5.3L if you want to keep stock stall and trans go with something around 205-216 intake 210-220 exhaust range. Barts 223/227 cam will need a stall converter, which is perfectly fine. However, on my daily driver and for towing I like the stock stall.
Good info! About three years after this video the hot LS truck cam is the Truck Norris which has a really narrow LSA (~108). This guy likes wide LSA’s after thousands of dyno runs! What gives?!? I know that a torquey street engine can be had with a little compression, smaller ports for higher velocity and a narrow LSA. I have a BBC set up that way and it’s nasty as a porta potty on a hot day!
I put a big circle track cam in my car when I was in my teens, it sounded mean, had top end, but all but needed a push start, I had to slip the clutch alot to get it moving, that didn't last long, I don't remember the spec's, but it had over 300° dur, and 106 lsa, it was crap until about 4k and wanted to keep going above 7k, I think it was a 4500-8500 cam, I'd had to put 4.88:1 gears to run that thing it would still been crappy, I had a truck also, I could jerk the doors on a cobra mustang, on the highway, but it didn't have that low down tq, I made a guy with that cobra feel bad, after spending all that money, then get out run by a 5,000 lb truck, I totally respect your knowledge, I'm here because I don't know LS engines, and looking for a decent Street cam for a 4.8 in a s10, with a turbo, and about 10-15 psi, I'd like the boost to give it the top end, and allow the cam to keep the 1500-2500 rpm tq, I'll probably be running a small amount of stall, maybe 500 over stock, so not really a stall converter, with stock 4.3 auto gears, and probably run the v6 converter, now I'm thinking about it, I know the 4L60's aren't the best, but I'm not racing on the strip, maybe the occasional trip down the track, I want the most power I can get, with the best mileage also, 3k at 65 is not me, (anymore) gas is too high, thanks for the video
yummy yummy knowledge. god i love it. i feel like i should be paying for all this info!!!!!!!!!! amazing video
I designed and built my own cylinder head with rotating tubes where I had to guess the values by myself. I ended up at about 250/250 with a 110 LSA @ 0.050" equivalent. It has about 4-5 inches of vacuum at 700 RPM idle. I was hoping it would work well at 6k+ rpm, but oddly enough the airflow is similar to stock between 4,000-7,000 rpm and a bit better below 4k. If I did it again, I would certainly go to something like 230/230 since it flows better than a poppet valve engine and so I can improve the idle.
Not rambling at all. Makes a lot of sense. Good stuff. Thanks.
Jesus brought me to this channel!!! About to rebuild my 2006 GMC Sierra CrewCab w/5.3L, and it’s an everyday truck, that occasionally pulls a trailer full of landscaping materials. I don’t need a Sloppy Stage II cam, for sure. Thank you for real world application information🙏🏽💯✊🏽
Tha for taking the time out to learn us... 👍
I got a 5.3/t56 with sloppy stage 2 cam idle set at 900rpm and man she idles aggressive . Car moves side to side at idle I love it. Only paid $229 with pac springs and install was a breeze
Did you have to install a stall converter and what heads would you swap with that?
Finally good straight up advice from experience..Thanks.
13.55 Thank you for saying this - 100% agree.
I'm in New Zealand trying to choose a new ls1cam for my Holden Commodore and with the awesome information I've just received from you and this grouse video all I can say is sweet as cuzzy bro I've got a better understanding of what I need to do now tumeke cuz👍👍
3:10 math.
Air Flow Research lists the heads I have flow at 260 cfm on the intake at .500 lift.
So...
260 x 2 = 520
520 x .10 = 52
520 + 52 = 572 h.p.
Thank you sir this video is helping me out alot im going to drop either a 5.3 or6.0 in my single cab silverado im going to use it everyday as a daily but every now and then ill race it and didnt want to buy a cam i wasnt going to be happy with and this video gave me a new view at cams
You don’t choose a cam for an engine, you choose a cam for that engines end use. If you want a perfect cam, you’ll never find one. Every single grind has its own personality. Horsepower , Torque, or somewhere in the middle. You will make gains in some areas and lose in others. Thats the facts.
great video, thank you for sharing all your knowledge. I am about to attempt this for the first time.
Wow I followed this channel a long time ago because of Tallguy, now I stumble across your video today while I'm looking for tips building this ls for my Regal. Small racing world
I was talking to a woman I know, who DOES understand cars TO A POINT, and she is a math wizard with a college degree. She looked at me during one of our conversations about old cars and racing, and finally said to me "How can a 305 small block Chevy be faster than a same car with a 350 cubic inch engine?" and I looked at her and said "It is all in the math!" and for a moment she looked at me like I was lying to her in that answer!!!
BUT has I went on to explain, you have to know EVERYTHING about the set up you are running!! Weight of the vehicle MATTERS, final drive gear ratios MATTER, and as I further explained to her as well, transmission gears, even engine performance parts ALL MATTER!!! Change ONE small thing in any engine and you can out run (on a drag strip) a V8 engine with a inline 6, if you have done the math correctly because EVERYTHING YOU DO to the car AND MOTOR as well as any gears in between MATTER!!!! And for a moment she looked at me confused!!!
The sad thing is, I have seen guys try to run HUGE cams in a car that run like garbage on the high side of the power curve, but seem to run solid but sluggish on the take off, only making power mid way. I have seen guys run cams that are too small that make INSANE off the line power but fall flat shortly after take off, because they just didn't have enough cam to satisfy the same mid way power curve!!
I have even seen guys who think stuffing a large carb on an engine will "fix this" and totally ignore allowing the exhaust to flow, and the list of things I have seen goes on and on and on from there to 4.11 rear gears in a car that just can't handle such a steep tooth in "normal" applications, when they should have ran something more "realistic" like 3.73 instead!!!
Facts as they say DO NOT LIE!!! And it is all in the numbers!!! And you can stick in the biggest big block you can stuff into a car, and think "This will be fast" but if you ignore the rest of the numbers you might as well take all your work and hard earned money out into the driveway and set it all on fire.......because all you are doing is wasting your time if you don't do the math and follow the numbers with a fine tooth comb!!!!
GREAT STORY,
SO TRUE.
THANKS.
Excellent video your knowledge will be building a 5.3 real soon your 475 to 500 horsepower is the range I really want to get
Did you reach your HP goals?
Good job! I actually understand the theory behind this now! Well explained my friend! I used to say it back in v8 vega days... it's all in the heads! Its flow!
After what feels like half a lifetime spent trying to find the real story on cam selection for my 6.2 LS3 this video was like a breath of fresh air. Thank you for sharing your wisdom! I have a daily driver that I want to take road racing on weekends. I want to maintain driveability, make more power, and lope a bit at idle. Do you have a recommendation for a streetable 6.2 LS3 Camaro?
One year later and ??? What did you find out?
this is very helpful because i have a 5.3 in 1974 and i want a cam that doesn't require a stall or change the rocker arms
Just seeing this video now, love the amount of information I got from this video.
The right cam and the wrong cam cost the same amount and generally people over cam not under cam and loose power in the range they use there engine and I laugh when people act like they know more than guy like you that dyno prove there theory and do it for a living great video lots of great info
Hate to correct you, but more overlap does not mean less cylinder pressure for the same duration cams. When you tighten the LC you are advancing the intake lobe which closes the valve sooner. Hence higher psi cranking pressure.
Most oval track cars run 104 to 105 LC to help accelerate out of the corner.
When I worked at Camonics years ago we found 105 to 106 made the highest peak power but the worst idle.
113 to 116 made less peak power but the best idle.
Engines that are FI typically run wider LCs due to idle issues with low vacuum.
This is naturally aspirated as turbos and blown cars favor 116 LC to keep from blowing the charge out the exhaust port.
Your video is somewhat correct but you fail to talk about other items such as exhaust type, compression ratios, etc. which also factors into this.
do you mean LS (Lobe Separation) instead of LC?
Thanks so much.... starting a new project and came across your video. To my surprise I know your work from "Tall Guy" hellcat... I'm in the midst of selecting a cam for my 2001 ls1 camaro. The info you presented will help a lot. Thanks again.
Bart is very generous & helpful. Thank you for the recipe on my 96vortec 5.7 I appreciate your expertise!!
What cam did u end up with. I built a vortec back in 2001. 700 carb, edelbrock performer intake and a 282/286 110° with a 106° centerline from reed cams. Put out 420hp. It was hard on the rocker to valve surface though. Im wanting to build another but would like to know how yours turned out with his combo. Id like to copy it. Thx
Needing a recommendation for a cam to go into my 6.0 motor, from an '03 Silverado. Swapping it along w/ @ 4L80 trans into my '92 K1500. Moving into a very fast paced city driving situation, so basically 0-60 quickness is key. But I do a lot of interstate travel too. Just tired of getting dusted in town with my TBI... Great vids, they're very informative and appreciated !
And I'm hot blooded so I'll be almost always have the AC on... I understand some cam profiles don't work well with AC.
Great video, very informative. I’ll call ya when I’m ready. Thanks! 👍🏻
For me I try to make the most average power in the rpm range the engine is designed for, hence why its extremely important to be honest with yourself about what you are going to do with vehicle
I went with what they recommend 231 243 duration @ 116 + 6 degrees.. 9 psi magi supercharger w/ stock heads 488 gears.And performed awesome. On the next bill going to order heads and cam as recommended , big dia. Header ...response was Instantaneous. I’ll always go with recommendations of cam heads after talking to the pros , BUT they have to listen to YOU and YOU have to listen to them
pretty sure tighter LSA usually ends up closing intake earlier which traps more air and increases DCR which boost cylinder pressure and that's why tight LSA cams tend to make more power.
I went with a 218/227 112 +2° for my 6.0 2500HD, 10.6:1 comp
Yea, that BTR Truck Norris is 216/227 @108* LSA....You’re close except for that LSA.
Is there a part 2 for this??? Cause I'm ready for it
Great video,easy to follow. I wiil definitely be emailing and now subscribing. Thanks from Nigel in Australia 👍
Well explained and helped me out in choosing the cam for my needs. Thank you !!!! A good video on ported heads like small valve, dimple port , 365 cfm, 409 cfm etc would be nice
Jesus, what heads are you using with that much cfm? Sounds like they're huge.
Richard Holdner tested an LS down to 108 LSA and it made the best power everywhere. He also tested the loss of pressure and guess what no problem. The problem is everyone wants lots of duration and most small blocks don't need it. Run more conservative duration and tighten the LSA. You will make more average power. Fat area under the curve.
Thanks Bart, that was a great and informative video!! Really enjoyed how you simplified and explained how cams actually work!
Nice video sir, I have stack 4.8 L and I going to put a cam wish do you recommend or I can buy from you.
I love you everything you said about the LS1 LS 2 camshafts and all the tech inspects but I didn't hear nothing about the LS3 . I thought you were going to talk about the LS3 also which is the best motor they made in the LS series
Great video Bart. Thanks for sharing your knowledge . Rebuilding my 6.0 in my 06 Hummer. Do you have a cam idea for towing 4000 lbs and street? Have another set of heads ported for it and 1.8 ratio roller rockers .
Mr Wallace, there is only 1 thing you didn't cover. Crane Cam had a theory called hydralic intensity which covered the spread between .050s and advertised (where they measured at SAE standard or 004s). Comp Cams mesured advertised at .006s, which means you would have to add another 10 degrees at their advertised figures. Generally, if the spread was tightest between the 2 figures, and the most valve lift generated the most hp and torque figures. As far for Comp Cams, I always considered their Xtreme Cam line a pretty close copy of Crane cams. I also wish you had covered using variable duration lifters with large cams to widen out the power band as well. This has been the best discussion of selecting a camshaft for an engine as well I have seen.
GOOD Stuff! Thank you!!! we have a 5.3 we are building right now
I like what you’re saying it’s actually better to go with a smaller camshaft to get a bigger performance and track ability. Especially when it’s a daily driver. I’ll be watching.
Thanks dad I needed a lily toe peep talk while I’m trying to spec out this 6.0 👍🏿
Was waiting for cam recommendations for 6.0 and ls3/l92 heads? But great video and even better advice!
I have this setup LS2 engine with milled and CNC ported LS3 heads 11.1 compression l have a crane hydraulic roller with LS7 lifters you'll need a good set of hardened pushrods a good SFI harmonic balancer the cam specs are 226 intake 236 exhaust lift on intake is.551 on exhaust .600 on a engine dyno with no accessories it makes 540hp at 6900rpm 470 foot pounds of torque at 5200rpm at the crank and 400 foot pounds of torque or more from 3000rpm to 7200rpm it pulls very very hard in this range and redlines very fast it idles decent with a slight chop at 800rpm this setup does lose torque below 2400rpm but it's not drastic and runs smooth from 2000rpm up it's in a 1984 monte carlo ss it weighs 3380 with me in it it has a 3000 stall converter and 4.10 gears it is a weekend cruiser it has been in the car since 2008 and runs as good or better than when first put in but it's maintained very well with oil changes ECT it's best quarter mile time was 10.87 at 122.9mph which got me kicked off the track because of no rollbar but it had made 8 passes before in the 11.0 to 11.3 this setup will work good if your car is 3600 pounds or lighter with you in it it's not the right choice for a heavy 4200 pound or more truck or big heavy car and my car has power steering and brakes a 700r4 transmission with a lockup torque converter suspension is drag springs all the way around and lift bars in rear no coilovers stock type suspension it is driven to the track raced and driven home no trailer it also has a GM performance single plane intake and a holley HP 850cfm carburetor so l don't know how well this cam will work on late model fuel injection but I'm more than happy with this setup
@@gloriamaletta8667 thank you
@@crw3673 keep duration under 230 on intake and under 240 on exhaust unless it's a drag car with a 4500rpm stall to 5000rpm keep lift at or under 600 unless your going to put forged pistons with valve reliefs and it will run good and last a long time without headaches
@@crw3673 l also have a 15 percent underdrive pulley with a good electric fan it runs at 180 degrees even if in traffic or idling for long periods in 95 degree florida heat using a 1970 chevelle 454 4 core radiator the LSA on my cam is 112
@@gloriamaletta8667 this is for a 4 gen Camaro, with a t56 tran and 3.73 12 bolt rear end. This car will 95% street and 5% strip. Would love to see it idle around 600 - 800 rpm. But needs to have good street and highway manners. Am I asking too much?
excellent video sir! I understand cams so much better now
Happy to see your channel I love your work with tall guy
What an good spec cam for an 383 ls1 stroker with trickflow 220 heads with 2.055 intake valves and 1.57 exhaust valves and fast 102 intake and Tb , I had an 240/250 cam speced and the car felt like an dog , and only trapped 117mph in the 1/4 mile
Do you happen to have a part number for the 223 227 cam? I bought an Lq4 for my 1997 Z71 pickup. I was going to go with a stock cam, but a little more power would be nice! Thanks.
its a custom grind that i have done. $409+25 for shipping. i have them in stock. 763 712 9088 b
Hi-Tech MotorSport I have an lm7, 5.3, will I be able to run my stock torque converter with this cam?
Hi-Tech MotorSport . How are you doing thank you for the video. Where can I get a 226 234 600 600 112 camshaft or a part number?.
Great video. Thank you Question? With long tube headers using your recommendation for my 2001 Silverado 5.3, of cam 223/227 600/600 should I plan on flowing heads and valve springs with hardened pushrods or keep what I’ve got Valve wise=stock? Also, torque converter, stock or high stall?
What did you you end up doing. And how did it go
Long tubes, stainless, just redid the heads with hardened pushrods. It’s perfect. Daily driver and a whole lotta fun
And springs. Just did it right.
Great vid Bart! Wish I would've found it sooner. Maybe could've done better on the cam I chose. However, it seems good enough for now. Also really appreciated your services when I had you tune my El Camino. I'll definitely recommend your business to others!
Excellent video! Helped me decide what I wanna do with my 08 z71 silverado
Thank you for the advice I've emailed you to see if I could get further on selecting the right cam. On my 09 silverdo great video..
1HP = 550Lbs moving up vertically 1 foot in one second. Horse pulling a rope over a pulley. At the other end of the rope is a 550Lb load being lifted out of a mine shaft.
whats best for daily driver 4.8 ?
The correct way to pick a camshaft is to call a cam company, give them your specs and let them grind you one.
will the cam you mentioned 223/227/600/600 113 work in my 2006 Silverado 5.3 with 35 in tires
oh for got to add that i am in the Communist state of California
I would argue that the 1.5 is typical but not a hard rule. Look at Ford gen 3 coyotes and 5.2s. They develop more than 1.5 per cube from the factory. With 1.82 per cube in their 5.2l crate engine. Aside from the physics of DOHC vs OHV I think 90 percent of their benefits are from being able to individually swing intake/exhaust independently by a large degree very quickly.
What cam do you recommend for a daily driver 6.0 with 4:10 gears?
Not too hard to work out, but you need to need to do some math... Do you have tractor tyres on it? Is it a Mini? What gearbox / trans? What gear ratios? How long is a piece of string? All stuff that can be worked out quite simply with math. But in a nut shell you need to work out how many revs you are doing at around town speeds (and what gear) and how many revs at highway speeds (and what gear).
You can find a number of tyre circumference calculators online and use your tyre profile. I.E 235/45 - R17 will give you x mm per tyre revolution. You already know you diff ratio, now you need to know each of the gear ratios in your gearbox / trans (if auto does it have a lockup convertors or will it slip?). Hopefully you can see where I am going with this... Some math later later and you know what rev range you will be sitting in for the biggest part of your driving. You go with a cam that is in it's sweet spot at those revs. So lets say you are doing 2500 at highway speeds you don't want a cam that starts at 3500, or it will dog along until it gains another 1000 rpm.
Or you can just go to the recommended website and find all the resources you will ever need... www.wallaceracing.com/Calculators.htm
So what would the ideal cam be for an ls3 daily driver looking for the best performance while still keeping good road manners and a little bit of an idle
What's your thought on the BTR stage 3 V2 truck cam in a 09 4.8 has 799 heads. Truck weighs around 4500 and is a daily driver.
Great video.. What can would you recommend for a 4.8 with long tubes, to make good power for street cruising
Awesome information sir. I have a question I have a stock 4.8 what cam should I go with.
Ok next time can you talk about the 5.7 vortec truck engine because thats what I have and looking to get the most out of my engine
vortec truck cams are different. the heads are only good for 540 lift with the guides. if you are still using the fuel injection system use a 220/224 540/540, on a 114 lobe sep. the vortec heads are very good but they have some limitations with the valve springs and fuel injection. b
At 3:17 you said it's the Max hp the head can make in any application. You forgot boosted. You can double that hp per atmosphere added.
I have a truck motor but it’s going into a car. 2002 5.3 going into a 96 impala.
Looking for great torque and cruising characteristics. Plus a great sound. Would you run a cam designed for a truck still? Since the car is so big
Great info. Very interesting and to the point.
Great video Bart! I wish I had this when I chose my cam.
Can you do one of these in relation to superchargers?
I will for sure add that onto the list. Any other videos you would like to see??
Hi-Tech MotorSport I have 2 trucks one with a gen 3 5.3, the other with a new 6.2 and I want to turbo one and supercharge the other, so one on turbo cams would be nice too I suppose, as well as heads in relation to forced induction.