I would love to see more plug in reviews such as these. Tutorials in recording application would be helpful as well. I am just a hobbyist so plug-ins offer so many advantages.
Worth mentioning: I’ve heard many amp sim v. real amp comparisons. Some are definitely closer than others of course but, from what I’ve seen at least, many of the subtle differences become mostly negligible in the context of a (moderately dense) mix. The amp sims I did think were very close in isolation became virtually indistinguishable (or completely indistinguishable LOL i.e. I’ve failed a few blind tests) to my ear. What a time to be alive 🤓
Hey Rhett, thanks for sharing. I used your “Five pedal types every beginner should have” video to buy my niece her first pedal for her high school graduation gift. She really loves guitar, guitar history, rock history, old (to her) musicians… I swear, in her enthusiasm she’s packing my lifetime of music into her few years of learning guitar.
Great demo and comparison. These plugins are getting scary good. My personal favorite way to use them is for when I'm writing a song and don't have a good idea of what kind of guitar tone I want. I'll record the track dry and experiment with different tones in software and when I have a better idea what sounds right, I've been using my other gear (Kemper, real amps, etc...) to get the best version of that tone I can.
This is exactly the way I operate. Sometimes scrolling through different amp plugins actually inpires more than I'd originally thought so it's a good way to spark creativity, too.
Sounds like a good process you got going. I feel like best practice is to always record the dry/direct un-effected guitar part of everything you record, so you always have the option to make changes. Counter argument too that is the way you play often changes based on your effects chain.
I love that amp, so easy to play and the tone is so rich. I also had a Falcon Grande that was so addictive. Your tone and that Novo is just killer. Novo guitars are magical. Congratulations on your half million approaching! I’ve been here for quite a few years and you are well deserving of the success. Never stop being you my man, you’re a blessing to all of us. Lol just came back to see that this is a year ago 🥴so congrats on all of it!
I started my musical journey with modelers and have always felt comfortable on them. Many musicians with limited budgets or living in apartments are unable to have the real deal and use it as intended. I appreciate you getting into modern gear and turning some of your more traditional fan base to it.
Hey Rhett-please, please, please do more of these! I’m a Quad Cortex user and I just love what I’m able to do with this technology. I think what NeuralDSP and the other modeling vendors are doing for the craft IS the future and it’s going to be how we will be able to hang on to the sounds of our heroes for generations to come.
I know that it is a head to head comparison but in some moment or even in all the video it would be fine a really close level match. Idk if it is just me, but the real amp sounded louder and it’s tempting to call it better, even if the plugin sounded clearer and way more ready to go to me.
I agree…it wasn’t level matched at all and I also wonder what the input gain was set to on the front of the Apollo…cause that’d make a HUGE difference to how the amp sim reacts with different input hitting it.
yeah i noticed that right off as well. if the volume isn't exactly equal...the loudness bias kicks in. however the plugin sounded fantastic, maybe a bit fuller, surprisingly
@@xdoctorblindx Maybe unconsciously... but I don't think he did it on purpose. I think people doing these "shoot out" style videos don't do enough of the BASIC gain staging stuff. Input level of the instrument hitting the amp is as essential and as character changing as having a drive or boost pedal turned on. Level matching is essential for your ear to make a clear call. I put the same settings Rhett had on the plug with a Gretsch with Filtertrons and got closer to the sound of his guitar through the amp than he got with his guitar through the plugin based solely on just getting the gain staging and mic positions on the cab closer to "right" and no difference in anything else. I mean I'm sure that Neural DSP would have gone to pain staking efforts to do exact shootouts and blind tests to make sure they got as close as possible to cancelling out. At the end of the day I could get this plug to sound as close to the amp as two of the same amps would be to each other and that's all that counts. Put it in a track and they both sound AMAZING! This amp sim tech has come SSOOOOO FAAARRR in the last few years it's insane! We live in the greatest time for making great sounding music on a budget! And as for the argument that "real amps move air" that's just nonsense. Every studio I've ever been in for the past 30 years have had about 95% guitars tracked in the mix room with no direct amp interaction (except through the studio monitors) and a huge percentage of modern pro stages are virtually silent...even if they are using amps they are baffled off stage. I've personally used in-ears and amp sims on stage since 2006 and loved it...if you want feedback you can get it in the side fill or step to the front of the stage. 😜
@@Berndaddie that’s fair, but I think this better represents the difference in a recording or live situation. You’re either gonna run the plug-in and cab sim, or mic up the amp. Not too many people use cab sims with a tube amp live, most just mic up
Pretty blown away ... I actually like what the plugin is able to bring out where the amp seemed less clear with some of the mids and highs. Off to pick it up. Thanks for this!
I’m glad a lot of companies are providing you with free / review models of their lineup. When it comes to amps, I couldn’t think of a better person to review them. You’re definitely one the of the most passionate guitarists with a keen fascination on the inner workings of amps, guitar and gear. Top job as always Rhett, won’t be long until you hit a million subs.
The plug-in sounds like it’s compressing the audio. When you switch to the amp, there seems to be more dynamics and the sound gets punchier. The plug-in almost seems flat. BUT the tone is VERY similar, I am impressed, you can get 95% the way there with the plug-in, pretty damn good.
I would agree. The amp has an intangible quality that is most pleasing to my ear - but the plugin is very, very good. I would use it! I don't know a damn thing about the Tone King, but I like it.
Rhett I have been watching your videos for several years and I always learn something great that makes me a better guitar player. I loved this video in particular because you went the extra mile to compare both the real amp and the plug-in. Your work and effort are very much appreciated. I would like to see more videos like this because that helps me to choose wisely without the need of investing extra money to make the comparison myself. Well done! Keep it up!
I've recently purchased this.... I'm a producer, and I've been using plug ins and sims for all my sounds just because they are so easy to recall. This one is getting used a lot in my studio... I have presets for all my guitars on it, and it sounds really damn good. For years, I had a few great Fender amps set up--a 68 Twin and a tweed, and this is so much easier than setting all that up...and I can come back a different day and punch in a part without it sounding different because my mics are a little different or my pedal settings are a little different.
There sounds like a volume discrepancy, with the amp being noticeably louder, for some reason, even though the knobs are set the same. Thanks for the shootout!!
Yeah it drives me nuts there’s such a big volume discrepancy. Also he micd his amp in the bathroom, whereas the plugin is modeling a totally clean studio setup. He should throw an IR of his bathroom on the end of the plugin, about 8% wet.
I'm an old guy and I kinda like the idea of the cab pushing the air but with the way things are now I think it doesn't matter as long as you hear what you're looking for. Sounds great 👍🏾
Seems like you can hear the room (or maybe the cab comes through more?) with the real amp, and so you’re getting more resonance in the mids/low mids… if you DI the amp so both run through the same cab modeling it would probably be a better comparison?
@@davedeville6540 I mean, I wouldn't put that on the amp. The reason you can "hear the room" on the live amp is because it's being recorded in a bathroom. Same for the low mid resonance
I feel like select plugins do get to that amp voltage sag thing people look for. People still talk about "moving air in the room" but my feeling is that is derived from comparing small computer monitor speaker to big cabs. If one sets up high quality stereo pairs of flat response large monitors on tripods projecting at ear level, I find that there is much more of a "in the room" effect than with, say a 2X12 traditional cab sitting on the floor (as most do), but I could be wrong.
I tried it with amplitube 5 through yamaha HS-7s and it just doesn't feel the same. I was going for the strat into cranked deluxe reverb sound... Rcorded, the plugin gets very close. Still it doesn't "breathe" as much as the real thing even if you add simulated room mics. But that's the thing. It is soo hard to capture with microphones what a cranked deluxe reverb does in a room. The plugin does a fine job imitating that recorded sound, which unfortunately is quite far from what you hear in the room anyway. But when it comes to gettimg that feeling in the room, and feel beneath the fingers (plugin still feels like there is a computer between your fingers and the sound somehow, it might be a latency thing, can't explain it) ... forget about it.
@@alexg4946 Understood. In my experience Amplitube 5 sounds fairly good but does lack that feel. Only particular amp sims seem to incorporate sag/voltage drop feeling. I think Neural DSP Soldano and the one I listed in my other comment do it pretty well. For sure, the Atomic Amplifire does. That sounds about as good as anything in my opinion.
@@tah5w Thnx for the recommendations, I will give these plugins a try if I get the chance! Can I ask u a question though, out of curiosity: (Idk if u have played a real Soldano, but regardless:) In a desert island setting (forget about resale value, rarity etc.) If you had a real Soldano, would u exchange it for the neural DSP version? Or rather, if u could exchange it for many different neural DSP sims, would you do it? I think I wouldn't trade mine for every amplutube 5, neural dsp sim combined haha But that is just my answer... I think it would be fun if people like Rhett who do reviews like this, tried to answer this question at the end of the video. It's all good, but at the end of the day... would you trade it? I think this question cuts straight to the point: what is the relative value of these two items, in your perception? How much value do you actually place on this plugin?
@@alexg4946 I get what you're saying and I wouldn't do that trade but not entirely because I think one sounds better than the other. Rabea Massaad has A/Bed on his channel and the recorded sounds produced are virtually indistinguishable. I've played tubes for 20 years and love 'em but if I can get the same sound and relatively close feel, the plugin is pretty handing to just open and start recording without all the cab in the other room mic mixing chain hassle. Also, if I'm going to a desert island, the head would be heavy to lug around and I might want to play on top of a mountain or something. Laptop and sim make that easy. Also, I'm just being crazy and understand what you're sayin man
Happy to see this comparison. I love the Tone King Neural plug-in. So much so that I'm having to think really hard about picking up an Imperial MK II combo.
Bottom line to me is I just think it’s great to have a plugin that sounds THAT good, available. I use some of the Amplitube Mesa Boogie plug-ins occasionally and they blow me away. To have almost any sound you want at your fingertips is a huge accomplishment and benefit. Never replace my amp, but I’m all for this!
Okay, well then, as much as I hate to admit it, this changes everything! I've sat by and ignored all of these digital solutions for analogue greatness for quite some time. This was so close, that if it were a live performance, I'd have to hear them side-by-side, immediately switched, to be able for me to perceive any real difference! And this gives me hope, because I can't afford the number of amps (in money, or in space, or in my dear wifey's patience!) that my heart truly desires. Dang it.... you did it Rhett, you did what the rest of the community failed to do, and now, I'm a believer!!!
This is a really great review/comparison. It seems the end result was more or less just the difference in mic placement and room (which are huge factors, regardless). the rest sounded identical, to me. do more of these videos!
For me, plug-ins are the way to go for practicing at home. I have an HX stomp on my board, but after a few years I got tired of even taking that out and setting it up. Id much rather just keep my gigging setup ready to run and use my interface and plugins for practicing
this is one of the coolest guitar videos i've ever watched, i didn't know amp sims were that detailed even going as far as letting u choose what mic you're simulating. plus you play beautifully and the production quality is top notch as always. loved the video!!
I would love to see a guitar collection video, Rhett style. What you love / don't love about each one, how often you pick it up, what you use it for, what tunings they live in, what ones you're thinking of trading / selling, etc. It would probably be an hour long but I'm here for that!
Sounds are real close , dynamics and amp response of the real thing is so much better though , I mean really what would you expect? Good vid man and done well 👍
The plugin is nice but too nasal for me, I like those rich mids from the real amp. Live or studio I'd choose real amp, but the plug in would be good for quiet playing- you wouldn't lose your amp's sound when writing or practicing.
@@rickyricardo2006 What is it that causes that? I always long for more clean and clear bottom and low mids from my Helix, it’s the one thing that really separates the tone from a real amp.
Nice shootout! In the first run of A/Bs, there seemed to be a marked volume difference, so that colored the result a bit. Later A/Bs were more matched. I'm impressed with the plugin and will probably grab it. The real amp was a bit warmer in this test, but keep in mind that no tube tube amps sound exactly the same due to tubes, tube age, component tolerances, etc. So Rhett's amp probably sounds a bit different than the one they modeled. Meaning maybe the plug requires a bit more bass, or gain to get to that point, or the amp requires a bit more presence or treble... Other things that likely "warmed up" the sound from the real amp: 1. The room - probably the biggest factor 2. Differences in mics (again, no two are exactly the same). 3. The speaker cab & speaker (and again...) 3. Mic placement (may not have been exact to the plug-in placement) So it all boils down to whether or not you like the plug-in on its own. I'll probably grab it, I think it sounds great, and any super subtle differences are not going to be evident in a mix anyway. Nice job, Rhett!
I've been binging your videos for a month you make amazing content. First video I watched was on why new young players don't play Gibson's in their bands. thank you RUclips recommended
Agree with your assessment. I really like the plug in and use it a lot. The effects are really tasteful too. That being said it’s just a tad bit refined sounding, but adding the room feature to the sound really helps it come alive.
Last time I was this early I had to prepare for fatherhood. Thanks for the video, Rhett! As someone with a half assed home studio I would love to see you do reviews of plug ins, interfaces etc. Learned more from you gear wise than anywhere else. Keep it up man, hope you get to 1mil soon!
I already have a few of the Neural DSP more Metal centric plugins (Nolly, Gojira, Petruci, Cali) and they are amazing pieces of software. Picking up the Tone King on this years Black Friday sale for sure. Been playing my Tele's and Strat's a lot more lately, so this is a perfect fit. One thing I would have like to have seen you mention was the difference in price between the plugin and the actual amp. The plugin in goes for $99 euros and the amp goes for $2500. Most of us don't have the option to use the real thing like you do even if we wanted to. This plugin is a great option for the rest of us.
I got the free 2-week trial of this. Was very impressed and bought it. It’s fantastic. Was not expecting to be this impressed. Sounds and feels awesome.
I love how you keep going back to Mickey's Monkey in your vids - saw it in another one earlier today. Thanks for the reminder of what a fun song that is!
I love Neural DSP and use a lot of their plugins but recently came across the Euphoria by Mercurial Audio. It is based on a Bogner Ecstasy 101B with an optional Cameron mod switch- one of my favorite amps. If you have this or comparable it might be cool to see a head to head. I was blown away by this plugin.
They used to include a cd with their Vypyr amps that had digital versions of their amps. I'm not sure if it was a plug-in or just standard software to play through.
That sounds really decent - surely not 100% as the real amp but then if you’d use it in a dense mix 🤔 What’s cool is to add analog stompboxes and use it altogether with plugins. Thanks!
@@Daniel-ll2cl Hi Dan. You can but I can't answer because all I have is a computer and no experience. Sorry, hope you get to the bottom of things soon.
To my ears the amp sounded a bit more alive then the plugin... the plugin really does sound true , however the amp as I said sound more alive , more airy ...is that a real word... thank you for the shootout between the two products I enjoyed that. I love my real amps and I love my various software I use... just opens a bigger palette and for me it can over complicate my choices....
the amp is darker, but the highend feels like it has more headroom or something to that extent because the real amp still sounds a little clearer to me even though clarity is usually highend presence. the reverb trails on the amp sound better. having that said, I think the distortion sounds better on the plugin by itself, but preference probably varies depending on the mix. i can imagine the amp being better in certain mixes and the plugin better in certain mixes.
I'm in the process of going full Amplitube 5, laptop, interface, midi footboard and a powered speaker or possibly a keyboard amp. The technology has got there and the models and effects and possibilities are amazing. Amplitube 5 sounds like a dream my guitar tone hasn't ever been this great. And transporting equipment is never been easier.
I think it sounds great. Thinking of getting this one and the Soldano and I’ll pretty much have anything and everything covered. Great review definitely do more.
One doesn't sound "better" than the other that should be the overall point. It's ever so slightly different is certain areas, but in a mix, nobody can tell. Eric Valentine has a video a while back where he was going through a older mix and he forgot which track was a real amp and which one was DI. They were that close in solo and completely indistinguishable in a mix. The tones and technology for plugins once you've entered the real amp into a DAW are 100% the same quality. Just slightly different flavor. Rhett, this video proves it. Well done.
So this is totally un-related to this particular video but I recently discovered righteous guitars thanks to your channel. I had the best experience there and ended up buying what is now my favorite strat. I wanted to thank you for waking me up to the amazing gem of a guitar store that was just a few miles down 400 from me.
All these plugins have a harshness in the overtone spectrum you cannot unhear once you‘ve ever heard it. You‘ve found the most positive way to articulate that. Congrats! :)
@@WookieWarriorz I‘m talking about the best: Line 6, UAD, Softone, etc. Consider yourself lucky if you don‘t hear a difference because that will save you a lot of money! ;)
Neural DSP plug-ins are great for recording guitarists. To my ear, in the mix of a song there’s no way to tell which is which. Perfect job from Neural DSP imho.
All parts in an amp have 5% variation. So the amp that was in the studio at Neural compared to Rhetts is going sound like a huge difference under a studio microscope. Then add plugin. Just getting in the ballpark is a huge accomplishment. Great vid
Can you make a video about using amp and pedal modeling apps with ONLY an iPhone and something like an iRig Pro I/O Duo (with two inputs) for those who don’t own computers or want to play/record on the go? It would be helpful to see how you set up your mobile phone rig, as well as getting your opinion on the best apps/plugins for playing on the go! Perhaps you could also compare mobile and PC plugins in a follow up video to determine whether there’s a difference in quality, tone, etc. Tyvm, Rhett!
Great video 👍 Bought this plugin as soon as it came out and use it all the time. It's one of my favorites! I really like the cab and mic section. The interface is fantastic! I use it as a cab sim with my real amp a lot (turn off the amp, pedals, etc.).
A few months ago MixWave released the Benson Chimera plug in. Whole I don't have that particular amp or cabinets to do a shootout with, I was impressed by the tone(s) and responsiveness of the plug-in. Technology is pretty amazing these days. Appreciate the demo/ shootout with the NeuralDSP gear
I was thinking of getting this tone king by neuraldsp but all my neural dsp plugins seems to sound similar in some way, and good thing mixwave drop the chimera like a few days after tone king and that amp sim is on a different level..
Both sound great, both are equally usable, and any differences just won't be noticeable in a mix. Which is awesome, because it lets players focus on whichever one inspires them more, whichever one eliminates more barriers between them and their creative output.
I know that in some other videos here on RUclips, some 'experts' share their view that 'the audience don't care about them details'. But I gotta admit, having a good quality sound, gives me personally some sort of engagement and pride to my work in addition to the musicality that our band put together arrangement-wise. It gives me that confidence and big smile from a personal enjoyment because I know I do it right and hoping the audience would have it as well (although I know some don't care), and this psychological perception, is projected through how much energy you show live. For recording, of course good sound matters!
As a hobbyist, I use an Iridium, computer simulators, and other tools so I can play through headphones. It means my family stays on good terms with me! 😂
I use plugins for guitar before I use anything else. But that's because I only own a few crappy little practice amps and like to record quietly in my bedroom studio. I use the plugins in Cubase and I love them. It did take a while to figure out how to get them to sound good but thanks to people like you, Rhett, and Tim Pierce I've got tones that I'm proud of.
I think you can get extremely close to the real amp settings by making a few eq/gain adjustments on the plugin. The pots on the real amp can't be as linear/standardized as the plugin is, let alone match everyones individual amp... 2 Tone Kings from the assembly line with consecutive serial numbers could sound slightly different even with the settings exactly matched... you'd have to assume that all of the pots were installed at precisely the same angle and that you were able to duplicate each knobs orientation exactly the same ... and that each pot has the exact same values! The bottom line is, this plugin sounds great. Its tweakable, responds great to guitar volume knob adjustments and is 95% cheaper than the real amp. As someone who doesn't primarliy play edge of breakup/blues/clean stuff- this plugin is perfect. When I need it, I've got the sound for about 100 bucks. Much appreciated Neural DSP and Tone King!
really great review! thanks to neural dsp we can finally kinda play those types of amps. I never could afford a tone king, deluxe reverb or JCM, JVM... the vintage and the whole modern amp sector. all the stuff i'm loging to play as a guitarist, but i'm gonna be honest to myself, i have no band, no use of real tube amps, i just play along some stuff at home, recording sometimes, and even my electricity bill will thank me.
I need to add that putting your amp in closet covered with a blanket would make it more even. one other thing, you're doing great work. 👍 👌 👏 Thx for the info.
Awesome comparison. I want an Imperial MK II AND plug in now. I blame you. Completely unrelated - tell us about your headphones (the only auxiliary gear you dont namecheck in the "check out below" list....
Hey, thank you for a great video! I am fan of heavier sounding guitar styles, but your work and your skill definitely got my eyes and ears. I'm in love with Neural DSP products. Also, there is one thing you should definitely try in terms of VST/real amp comparison, just in case if you are still in touch with this team. Try to capture an IR of your cabinet in bathroom and feed it to your VST. In my opinion, here the comparison will definitely excel. Thank you again for your work, got me subscribed to your channel! Best wishes from Ukraine.
I would love to see more plug in reviews such as these. Tutorials in recording application would be helpful as well. I am just a hobbyist so plug-ins offer so many advantages.
Yes !!!
I will never use a plugin modeler unless I can buy a controller for it that has actual knobs, switches, etc.
@@afterglow2020 there's a billion midi controllable knobs. Logic has an easy learn function. Go nuts!
@@joshuaharris7787 What is this midi you speak of?
for me I may want to work in the music industry this stuff is amazing. all of his videos are great
Worth mentioning: I’ve heard many amp sim v. real amp comparisons. Some are definitely closer than others of course but, from what I’ve seen at least, many of the subtle differences become mostly negligible in the context of a (moderately dense) mix. The amp sims I did think were very close in isolation became virtually indistinguishable (or completely indistinguishable LOL i.e. I’ve failed a few blind tests) to my ear. What a time to be alive 🤓
you are deaf
Hey Rhett, thanks for sharing. I used your “Five pedal types every beginner should have” video to buy my niece her first pedal for her high school graduation gift. She really loves guitar, guitar history, rock history, old (to her) musicians… I swear, in her enthusiasm she’s packing my lifetime of music into her few years of learning guitar.
Great demo and comparison. These plugins are getting scary good. My personal favorite way to use them is for when I'm writing a song and don't have a good idea of what kind of guitar tone I want. I'll record the track dry and experiment with different tones in software and when I have a better idea what sounds right, I've been using my other gear (Kemper, real amps, etc...) to get the best version of that tone I can.
Texas Blues Alley!!!!😎
That's a great idea. Re-amping the dry signal is perfect for sorting out what tone is best for the song.
This is exactly the way I operate. Sometimes scrolling through different amp plugins actually inpires more than I'd originally thought so it's a good way to spark creativity, too.
Sounds like a good process you got going. I feel like best practice is to always record the dry/direct un-effected guitar part of everything you record, so you always have the option to make changes. Counter argument too that is the way you play often changes based on your effects chain.
I love that amp, so easy to play and the tone is so rich. I also had a Falcon Grande that was so addictive. Your tone and that Novo is just killer. Novo guitars are magical. Congratulations on your half million approaching! I’ve been here for quite a few years and you are well deserving of the success. Never stop being you my man, you’re a blessing to all of us. Lol just came back to see that this is a year ago 🥴so congrats on all of it!
I started my musical journey with modelers and have always felt comfortable on them. Many musicians with limited budgets or living in apartments are unable to have the real deal and use it as intended. I appreciate you getting into modern gear and turning some of your more traditional fan base to it.
Exactly
Hey Rhett-please, please, please do more of these! I’m a Quad Cortex user and I just love what I’m able to do with this technology. I think what NeuralDSP and the other modeling vendors are doing for the craft IS the future and it’s going to be how we will be able to hang on to the sounds of our heroes for generations to come.
I know that it is a head to head comparison but in some moment or even in all the video it would be fine a really close level match. Idk if it is just me, but the real amp sounded louder and it’s tempting to call it better, even if the plugin sounded clearer and way more ready to go to me.
I agree…it wasn’t level matched at all and I also wonder what the input gain was set to on the front of the Apollo…cause that’d make a HUGE difference to how the amp sim reacts with different input hitting it.
yeah i noticed that right off as well. if the volume isn't exactly equal...the loudness bias kicks in. however the plugin sounded fantastic, maybe a bit fuller, surprisingly
The level of the amp was about 2 dB louder.
Rhett had decided the amp sounded better before he even started the comparison, so he unconsciously biased the representation toward the amp.
@@xdoctorblindx Maybe unconsciously... but I don't think he did it on purpose. I think people doing these "shoot out" style videos don't do enough of the BASIC gain staging stuff. Input level of the instrument hitting the amp is as essential and as character changing as having a drive or boost pedal turned on. Level matching is essential for your ear to make a clear call. I put the same settings Rhett had on the plug with a Gretsch with Filtertrons and got closer to the sound of his guitar through the amp than he got with his guitar through the plugin based solely on just getting the gain staging and mic positions on the cab closer to "right" and no difference in anything else. I mean I'm sure that Neural DSP would have gone to pain staking efforts to do exact shootouts and blind tests to make sure they got as close as possible to cancelling out. At the end of the day I could get this plug to sound as close to the amp as two of the same amps would be to each other and that's all that counts. Put it in a track and they both sound AMAZING! This amp sim tech has come SSOOOOO FAAARRR in the last few years it's insane! We live in the greatest time for making great sounding music on a budget!
And as for the argument that "real amps move air" that's just nonsense. Every studio I've ever been in for the past 30 years have had about 95% guitars tracked in the mix room with no direct amp interaction (except through the studio monitors) and a huge percentage of modern pro stages are virtually silent...even if they are using amps they are baffled off stage. I've personally used in-ears and amp sims on stage since 2006 and loved it...if you want feedback you can get it in the side fill or step to the front of the stage.
😜
Would love to hear the real amp through the NeuralDSP IR cab section to see how different they really are.
That would bring this closer to apples and apples.
Bump
Really good point.
@@Berndaddie that’s fair, but I think this better represents the difference in a recording or live situation. You’re either gonna run the plug-in and cab sim, or mic up the amp. Not too many people use cab sims with a tube amp live, most just mic up
@@matroid4996 Point is… the IR section in the plugin is not modelled off miking the amp in a bathroom.
Pretty blown away ... I actually like what the plugin is able to bring out where the amp seemed less clear with some of the mids and highs. Off to pick it up. Thanks for this!
did you get around to it?
@@samouellette5130 I sure did. I've since picked up three of the Archetypes by Neural.
That plugin sounds great! Get the job done for sure!
How the heck are you not verified. SMH RUclips
@@marcuslajeuness8400 that's crazy...THE Brett Papa not verified.
Nothing beats a bathroom reverb
Don’t underestimate the towel fabric and toilet paper patterns!
Make sure there's a full roll of butt paper in there for just the right amount of sound dampening 🤘😜🤘
A non-flushed deuce still in the bowl gives boost to the lows.
A Church Reverb...
Electric fan autotune better
I’m glad a lot of companies are providing you with free / review models of their lineup.
When it comes to amps, I couldn’t think of a better person to review them. You’re definitely one the of the most passionate guitarists with a keen fascination on the inner workings of amps, guitar and gear.
Top job as always Rhett, won’t be long until you hit a million subs.
The plug-in sounds like it’s compressing the audio. When you switch to the amp, there seems to be more dynamics and the sound gets punchier. The plug-in almost seems flat. BUT the tone is VERY similar, I am impressed, you can get 95% the way there with the plug-in, pretty damn good.
Tonally it's missing the lower mid range
I totally agree. Though RUclips's own compression doesn't help at all.
The amp is living and breathing along with the player and his ax.
It's just louder, and the tone differencejust has a slightly different EQ due to mic placement.
I would agree. The amp has an intangible quality that is most pleasing to my ear - but the plugin is very, very good. I would use it! I don't know a damn thing about the Tone King, but I like it.
@@craigwillms61 one of best amps for low gain vintage clean / or breakup tones. Something like a reverb deluxe
Rhett I have been watching your videos for several years and I always learn something great that makes me a better guitar player. I loved this video in particular because you went the extra mile to compare both the real amp and the plug-in. Your work and effort are very much appreciated. I would like to see more videos like this because that helps me to choose wisely without the need of investing extra money to make the comparison myself. Well done! Keep it up!
I've recently purchased this.... I'm a producer, and I've been using plug ins and sims for all my sounds just because they are so easy to recall. This one is getting used a lot in my studio... I have presets for all my guitars on it, and it sounds really damn good. For years, I had a few great Fender amps set up--a 68 Twin and a tweed, and this is so much easier than setting all that up...and I can come back a different day and punch in a part without it sounding different because my mics are a little different or my pedal settings are a little different.
There sounds like a volume discrepancy, with the amp being noticeably louder, for some reason, even though the knobs are set the same. Thanks for the shootout!!
I think the amp sounds a little cleaner.
Gain mismatch, it would be much closer if he matched "input gain" on the preset
Yeah it drives me nuts there’s such a big volume discrepancy. Also he micd his amp in the bathroom, whereas the plugin is modeling a totally clean studio setup. He should throw an IR of his bathroom on the end of the plugin, about 8% wet.
I'm an old guy and I kinda like the idea of the cab pushing the air but with the way things are now I think it doesn't matter as long as you hear what you're looking for. Sounds great 👍🏾
Seems like you can hear the room (or maybe the cab comes through more?) with the real amp, and so you’re getting more resonance in the mids/low mids… if you DI the amp so both run through the same cab modeling it would probably be a better comparison?
Spot on. Real amp has more body and punch. Both sound very good.
Good call, I was thinking the same thing.
@@davedeville6540 I mean, I wouldn't put that on the amp. The reason you can "hear the room" on the live amp is because it's being recorded in a bathroom. Same for the low mid resonance
Yep. The real amp seems more "alive". The plugin does sound good, but thru my desktop speakers, the real amp sounds better from a tone pov.
Wut?
pffft im gonna say it, i actually prefer the clarity on the plugin. amazing video thanks for taking the time to do this !
Recording ,no brainer plug-in for ease. But, live or pure listening enjoyment for the the player. The amp hands down ,not even close.
Super awesome blog! Thank you very much for content!
I feel like select plugins do get to that amp voltage sag thing people look for. People still talk about "moving air in the room" but my feeling is that is derived from comparing small computer monitor speaker to big cabs. If one sets up high quality stereo pairs of flat response large monitors on tripods projecting at ear level, I find that there is much more of a "in the room" effect than with, say a 2X12 traditional cab sitting on the floor (as most do), but I could be wrong.
I tried it with amplitube 5 through yamaha HS-7s and it just doesn't feel the same.
I was going for the strat into cranked deluxe reverb sound... Rcorded, the plugin gets very close. Still it doesn't "breathe" as much as the real thing even if you add simulated room mics.
But that's the thing. It is soo hard to capture with microphones what a cranked deluxe reverb does in a room. The plugin does a fine job imitating that recorded sound, which unfortunately is quite far from what you hear in the room anyway.
But when it comes to gettimg that feeling in the room, and feel beneath the fingers (plugin still feels like there is a computer between your fingers and the sound somehow, it might be a latency thing, can't explain it) ... forget about it.
@@alexg4946 Understood. In my experience Amplitube 5 sounds fairly good but does lack that feel. Only particular amp sims seem to incorporate sag/voltage drop feeling. I think Neural DSP Soldano and the one I listed in my other comment do it pretty well. For sure, the Atomic Amplifire does. That sounds about as good as anything in my opinion.
Greg Koch calls voltage sag "squish".
@@tah5w Thnx for the recommendations, I will give these plugins a try if I get the chance! Can I ask u a question though, out of curiosity:
(Idk if u have played a real Soldano, but regardless:) In a desert island setting (forget about resale value, rarity etc.) If you had a real Soldano, would u exchange it for the neural DSP version? Or rather, if u could exchange it for many different neural DSP sims, would you do it?
I think I wouldn't trade mine for every amplutube 5, neural dsp sim combined haha But that is just my answer... I think it would be fun if people like Rhett who do reviews like this, tried to answer this question at the end of the video. It's all good, but at the end of the day... would you trade it? I think this question cuts straight to the point: what is the relative value of these two items, in your perception? How much value do you actually place on this plugin?
@@alexg4946 I get what you're saying and I wouldn't do that trade but not entirely because I think one sounds better than the other. Rabea Massaad has A/Bed on his channel and the recorded sounds produced are virtually indistinguishable. I've played tubes for 20 years and love 'em but if I can get the same sound and relatively close feel, the plugin is pretty handing to just open and start recording without all the cab in the other room mic mixing chain hassle. Also, if I'm going to a desert island, the head would be heavy to lug around and I might want to play on top of a mountain or something. Laptop and sim make that easy. Also, I'm just being crazy and understand what you're sayin man
Happy to see this comparison. I love the Tone King Neural plug-in. So much so that I'm having to think really hard about picking up an Imperial MK II combo.
Bottom line to me is I just think it’s great to have a plugin that sounds THAT good, available. I use some of the Amplitube Mesa Boogie plug-ins occasionally and they blow me away. To have almost any sound you want at your fingertips is a huge accomplishment and benefit. Never replace my amp, but I’m all for this!
Plugins straight up REPLACED my amps. I haven't turned them on for home use at all.
Okay, well then, as much as I hate to admit it, this changes everything! I've sat by and ignored all of these digital solutions for analogue greatness for quite some time. This was so close, that if it were a live performance, I'd have to hear them side-by-side, immediately switched, to be able for me to perceive any real difference! And this gives me hope, because I can't afford the number of amps (in money, or in space, or in my dear wifey's patience!) that my heart truly desires. Dang it.... you did it Rhett, you did what the rest of the community failed to do, and now, I'm a believer!!!
I'm new to home recording and I just purchased my first plug-in because of this video. Thank you, Rhett!
Hey Rhett! Great demo. The volume in the plug in was a little lower in comparison..
This is a really great review/comparison. It seems the end result was more or less just the difference in mic placement and room (which are huge factors, regardless). the rest sounded identical, to me. do more of these videos!
For me, plug-ins are the way to go for practicing at home. I have an HX stomp on my board, but after a few years I got tired of even taking that out and setting it up. Id much rather just keep my gigging setup ready to run and use my interface and plugins for practicing
I’ve really got to learn more about this part of recording. Both the amp; and plug-in sound great! Fantastic video as always.
Congrats on the half a mill subs. Cheers!
this is one of the coolest guitar videos i've ever watched, i didn't know amp sims were that detailed even going as far as letting u choose what mic you're simulating. plus you play beautifully and the production quality is top notch as always. loved the video!!
I would love to see a guitar collection video, Rhett style. What you love / don't love about each one, how often you pick it up, what you use it for, what tunings they live in, what ones you're thinking of trading / selling, etc. It would probably be an hour long but I'm here for that!
+1 for this!
Sounds are real close , dynamics and amp response of the real thing is so much better though , I mean really what would you expect? Good vid man and done well 👍
Plugins and modelers need a lot of tweaking! When you did, it sounded almost exactly as the amp! Thanks for sharing your settings Rhett!
The plugin is nice but too nasal for me, I like those rich mids from the real amp. Live or studio I'd choose real amp, but the plug in would be good for quiet playing- you wouldn't lose your amp's sound when writing or practicing.
The "nasaling" thing is a trademark characteristic of vst, plugin, software modeling amps and pedals
@Credit Car Sales i believe he's going guitar > a/b/y switcher with "a" going straight to the computer and "b" going to the amp, which is mic'd
@@rickyricardo2006 What is it that causes that? I always long for more clean and clear bottom and low mids from my Helix, it’s the one thing that really separates the tone from a real amp.
@@steelstrunghero absolutely, and it wont go away even with high quality IRs.. It doesn't sound bad, its just not the same as an analog setup.
exactly it has its place for sure. A good buy.
Nice shootout! In the first run of A/Bs, there seemed to be a marked volume difference, so that colored the result a bit. Later A/Bs were more matched. I'm impressed with the plugin and will probably grab it. The real amp was a bit warmer in this test, but keep in mind that no tube tube amps sound exactly the same due to tubes, tube age, component tolerances, etc. So Rhett's amp probably sounds a bit different than the one they modeled. Meaning maybe the plug requires a bit more bass, or gain to get to that point, or the amp requires a bit more presence or treble...
Other things that likely "warmed up" the sound from the real amp:
1. The room - probably the biggest factor
2. Differences in mics (again, no two are exactly the same).
3. The speaker cab & speaker (and again...)
3. Mic placement (may not have been exact to the plug-in placement)
So it all boils down to whether or not you like the plug-in on its own. I'll probably grab it, I think it sounds great, and any super subtle differences are not going to be evident in a mix anyway. Nice job, Rhett!
The input on the plugin was maybe a little low as well but the volume difference was pretty significant which almost always favors the louder one.
I've been binging your videos for a month you make amazing content. First video I watched was on why new young players don't play Gibson's in their bands. thank you RUclips recommended
Agree with your assessment. I really like the plug in and use it a lot. The effects are really tasteful too. That being said it’s just a tad bit refined sounding, but adding the room feature to the sound really helps it come alive.
From about 11:32 to 12:00 sounds fantastic. It all does, really, but I keep replaying that riff. Simply great.
Rhett, you’re gonna hit a million subs, and many more. All of us will be here for the ride!
Beautiful playing at 11:31 Rhett, also loved that you were riffing abit with Custard Pie, love that song
I absolutely love your channel and learn a ton from it. Just wanted to say thanks man!
Def like to see more content like this! Excellent sound from the plug in. It probably sits very well in a mix
Last time I was this early I had to prepare for fatherhood. Thanks for the video, Rhett! As someone with a half assed home studio I would love to see you do reviews of plug ins, interfaces etc. Learned more from you gear wise than anywhere else. Keep it up man, hope you get to 1mil soon!
I already have a few of the Neural DSP more Metal centric plugins (Nolly, Gojira, Petruci, Cali) and they are amazing pieces of software. Picking up the Tone King on this years Black Friday sale for sure. Been playing my Tele's and Strat's a lot more lately, so this is a perfect fit. One thing I would have like to have seen you mention was the difference in price between the plugin and the actual amp. The plugin in goes for $99 euros and the amp goes for $2500. Most of us don't have the option to use the real thing like you do even if we wanted to. This plugin is a great option for the rest of us.
Good demo. I made a switch to amp modeling few years back for live performance i don't regret it...
I got the free 2-week trial of this. Was very impressed and bought it. It’s fantastic. Was not expecting to be this impressed. Sounds and feels awesome.
I love how you keep going back to Mickey's Monkey in your vids - saw it in another one earlier today. Thanks for the reminder of what a fun song that is!
I love Neural DSP and use a lot of their plugins but recently came across the Euphoria by Mercurial Audio. It is based on a Bogner Ecstasy 101B with an optional Cameron mod switch- one of my favorite amps. If you have this or comparable it might be cool to see a head to head. I was blown away by this plugin.
The Reaxis is a great amp by Mercuriall
Both sound incredible! Absolutely amazing!
Thank you. Rhett! As always a great demo.
Dude, you put out great stuff man, thank you
This is an awesome demo - thanks, Rhett!! (BTW - nice playing, you sound inspired)
Great video, really useful and well done. This is such a great channel!
If Peavey had a plug in, I’d play it 😉
if Peavey made a laptop, Id use it.
@@RhettShull Damn straight you would!!! Hope you’re well my friend, it was good seeing you & Tilly and meeting Phil.
Did Peavey abandon Revalver?
They used to include a cd with their Vypyr amps that had digital versions of their amps. I'm not sure if it was a plug-in or just standard software to play through.
I can't count the amount of 5150 sims that exist in the world today. Some of them are even good.
That sounds really decent - surely not 100% as the real amp but then if you’d use it in a dense mix 🤔 What’s cool is to add analog stompboxes and use it altogether with plugins. Thanks!
Thanks Rhett. I just picked up an M1 Pro and am new to DAW's so this provides good insight for me. Keep up the great work!
Hey could i ask you a question about neural dsp please?
@@Daniel-ll2cl Hi Dan. You can but I can't answer because all I have is a computer and no experience. Sorry, hope you get to the bottom of things soon.
To my ears the amp sounded a bit more alive then the plugin... the plugin really does sound true , however the amp as I said sound more alive , more airy ...is that a real word... thank you for the shootout between the two products I enjoyed that. I love my real amps and I love my various software I use... just opens a bigger palette and for me it can over complicate my choices....
Its also right up my ally. Love the sound of it. Love the focus on clean / edge of breakup tones. Wish they'd do more
They both sound great I guess it just comes down to taste. The laptop is brighter while the amp has more dark crunch.
the amp is darker, but the highend feels like it has more headroom or something to that extent because the real amp still sounds a little clearer to me even though clarity is usually highend presence.
the reverb trails on the amp sound better.
having that said, I think the distortion sounds better on the plugin by itself, but preference probably varies depending on the mix.
i can imagine the amp being better in certain mixes and the plugin better in certain mixes.
The amp feels like it breathes more
I'm in the process of going full Amplitube 5, laptop, interface, midi footboard and a powered speaker or possibly a keyboard amp. The technology has got there and the models and effects and possibilities are amazing. Amplitube 5 sounds like a dream my guitar tone hasn't ever been this great. And transporting equipment is never been easier.
I think it sounds great. Thinking of getting this one and the Soldano and I’ll pretty much have anything and everything covered.
Great review definitely do more.
One doesn't sound "better" than the other that should be the overall point. It's ever so slightly different is certain areas, but in a mix, nobody can tell. Eric Valentine has a video a while back where he was going through a older mix and he forgot which track was a real amp and which one was DI. They were that close in solo and completely indistinguishable in a mix. The tones and technology for plugins once you've entered the real amp into a DAW are 100% the same quality. Just slightly different flavor. Rhett, this video proves it. Well done.
I picked up one of their Archetype's Neural allows you to demo each plugin which is pretty cool Congrats to the upcoming 1/2 mill
So this is totally un-related to this particular video but I recently discovered righteous guitars thanks to your channel. I had the best experience there and ended up buying what is now my favorite strat. I wanted to thank you for waking me up to the amazing gem of a guitar store that was just a few miles down 400 from me.
All these plugins have a harshness in the overtone spectrum you cannot unhear once you‘ve ever heard it. You‘ve found the most positive way to articulate that. Congrats! :)
use better programs or vsts
@@WookieWarriorz I‘m talking about the best: Line 6, UAD, Softone, etc. Consider yourself lucky if you don‘t hear a difference because that will save you a lot of money! ;)
I would’ve liked to see you get the plugin to sound as close to the real amp as possible and then compare settings.
Always great video, very informative
I personally find the real amp more pleasing to the ear. No matter the setting, the plug-in has some digital character to it. Not bad, but noticeable.
Neural DSP plug-ins are great for recording guitarists. To my ear, in the mix of a song there’s no way to tell which is which. Perfect job from Neural DSP imho.
All parts in an amp have 5% variation. So the amp that was in the studio at Neural compared to Rhetts is going sound like a huge difference under a studio microscope. Then add plugin. Just getting in the ballpark is a huge accomplishment. Great vid
Can you make a video about using amp and pedal modeling apps with ONLY an iPhone and something like an iRig Pro I/O Duo (with two inputs) for those who don’t own computers or want to play/record on the go? It would be helpful to see how you set up your mobile phone rig, as well as getting your opinion on the best apps/plugins for playing on the go!
Perhaps you could also compare mobile and PC plugins in a follow up video to determine whether there’s a difference in quality, tone, etc.
Tyvm, Rhett!
Definitely would like to see more plug-in reviews. Thanks!
Great video 👍 Bought this plugin as soon as it came out and use it all the time. It's one of my favorites! I really like the cab and mic section. The interface is fantastic! I use it as a cab sim with my real amp a lot (turn off the amp, pedals, etc.).
This is the most unbiased demo that I have ever seen.
A few months ago MixWave released the Benson Chimera plug in. Whole I don't have that particular amp or cabinets to do a shootout with, I was impressed by the tone(s) and responsiveness of the plug-in.
Technology is pretty amazing these days.
Appreciate the demo/ shootout with the NeuralDSP gear
I was thinking of getting this tone king by neuraldsp but all my neural dsp plugins seems to sound similar in some way, and good thing mixwave drop the chimera like a few days after tone king and that amp sim is on a different level..
Both sound great, both are equally usable, and any differences just won't be noticeable in a mix. Which is awesome, because it lets players focus on whichever one inspires them more, whichever one eliminates more barriers between them and their creative output.
that scream @ 12:24 was a really good one. Made worth listening all the rest.
I love the imperial MKII. Amazing amp. I’m gonna get this amp one day.
I know that in some other videos here on RUclips, some 'experts' share their view that 'the audience don't care about them details'. But I gotta admit, having a good quality sound, gives me personally some sort of engagement and pride to my work in addition to the musicality that our band put together arrangement-wise. It gives me that confidence and big smile from a personal enjoyment because I know I do it right and hoping the audience would have it as well (although I know some don't care), and this psychological perception, is projected through how much energy you show live. For recording, of course good sound matters!
Really surprised how close the spring reverb simulation is!
Hell yea you can make some insane tones on the computer
As a hobbyist, I use an Iridium, computer simulators, and other tools so I can play through headphones. It means my family stays on good terms with me! 😂
love this plugin, absolute game changer for me.
The AMP sounds great...... clever visual reference to the 80's when you go to the clean/chorus vibe. kudos
Love your channel Rhett Youl be 1 000 000 in no time now
I use plugins for guitar before I use anything else. But that's because I only own a few crappy little practice amps and like to record quietly in my bedroom studio. I use the plugins in Cubase and I love them. It did take a while to figure out how to get them to sound good but thanks to people like you, Rhett, and Tim Pierce I've got tones that I'm proud of.
Would love to see some Rhett Shull presets....
I can't believe how far plugins have come in the last 15/20 years. Amazing how good of a tone you can get through a computer these days...
I think you can get extremely close to the real amp settings by making a few eq/gain adjustments on the plugin. The pots on the real amp can't be as linear/standardized as the plugin is, let alone match everyones individual amp... 2 Tone Kings from the assembly line with consecutive serial numbers could sound slightly different even with the settings exactly matched... you'd have to assume that all of the pots were installed at precisely the same angle and that you were able to duplicate each knobs orientation exactly the same ... and that each pot has the exact same values! The bottom line is, this plugin sounds great. Its tweakable, responds great to guitar volume knob adjustments and is 95% cheaper than the real amp. As someone who doesn't primarliy play edge of breakup/blues/clean stuff- this plugin is perfect. When I need it, I've got the sound for about 100 bucks. Much appreciated Neural DSP and Tone King!
Hey Rhett, another brilliant video from your part. Would love to see more reviews of plugins. Would love for you to review the Amplitube 5 suite
I agree. I have to rely upon plugins for many reasons. I realize they will not be “spot on” but if they sound good, then they are usable.
really great review! thanks to neural dsp we can finally kinda play those types of amps. I never could afford a tone king, deluxe reverb or JCM, JVM... the vintage and the whole modern amp sector. all the stuff i'm loging to play as a guitarist, but i'm gonna be honest to myself, i have no band, no use of real tube amps, i just play along some stuff at home, recording sometimes, and even my electricity bill will thank me.
Custard Pie is just the perfect riff for that amp
The real amp definitely has more presence, it sounds more distinct - but the plugin is pretty close, useful for recording!
There's definitely some bathroom acoustics going on with the real amp.
You could put an automation on the eq switching knob, it's like a friend who turns the knob for you when you need it. Cool stuff.
The ambient sounds from your amp in the bathroom is coloring a bit of your sound. The plug in is doing a great job. 👍
I need to add that putting your amp in closet covered with a blanket would make it more even. one other thing, you're doing great work. 👍 👌 👏 Thx for the info.
Awesome comparison. I want an Imperial MK II AND plug in now. I blame you. Completely unrelated - tell us about your headphones (the only auxiliary gear you dont namecheck in the "check out below" list....
Hey, thank you for a great video! I am fan of heavier sounding guitar styles, but your work and your skill definitely got my eyes and ears. I'm in love with Neural DSP products. Also, there is one thing you should definitely try in terms of VST/real amp comparison, just in case if you are still in touch with this team. Try to capture an IR of your cabinet in bathroom and feed it to your VST. In my opinion, here the comparison will definitely excel.
Thank you again for your work, got me subscribed to your channel! Best wishes from Ukraine.