Miners dispute | Arthur Scargill | Roy Lynk | Miners Strike | TV Eye | 1985
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- Опубликовано: 16 окт 2024
- 'TV Eye' presenter Denis Tuohy chairs a discussion between battling Miners leaders - Roy Lynk of a break-away union - the Union of Democratic Mine workers and Arthur Scargill leader of the National Union of Mineworkers.
First shown: 11/07/1985
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Quote: VT33775
Lynk said they were not a bosses union, but that's exactly what the UDM was -- a yellow, scab union that supported privatisation of the pits, sought single union deals to cut out all the others from their pits, and received preferential treatment from the NCB when it came to pit closures.
Welcome to capitalism- the notts mines closed in 2015.
The UDM if privatisation had gone as planned were going to get rid of NACODS union to run the Collieries themselves.
I do agree that Scargill made a huge mistake in not having a national ballot, but surely the Notts miners would have broken away even with a national vote to strike, if those Notts miners had voted 'no'? Having said that, the NUM may have refused to disclose area results in a national ballot, which itself would have presumably caused ructions!
Notts were going it alone with or without a national ballot. The area incentive scheme proved that
@@markwoodland2886 Thanks for replying. I do think not having a national ballot was a huge mistake, it gave the NUM's enemies, from Thatcher to Kinnock, an easy weapon.
Having said that, they'd soon have found something else with which to batter the NUM - 'support' for Notts going back to work (as you say) being an example.
you cut straight to the point, they would never have honoured any national ballot in favour of action..the motivation was that Scargill was fighting on issues that had no relevance for them...they were wrong...
@@kailashpatel1706 Hi, thank you. Yes indeed.
I wonder though whether it would have been better for the Labour Party if Kinnock had supported the strike. It couldn't have been worse as it turned out - two deserved humiliations in 1987 and 92!
And today of course we have Starmer failing to support the rail workers. I suspect that will turn out to be a bad move too.
@@markwoodland2886 from what I know is that the Yorkshire Area NUM had Scargill, when he won the President job NUM,the Nottinghamshire Area didn't want a left wing President in power ?
And the government kicked Roy Lynk right in the knackers a few years later, so much for his democratic union.
UDM Neil Greatrex stole £150 000 from their Pension, once a Scab always a Scab.
Coming from a huge mining area I didn't want the pits closed, but they were losing money hand over fist. Scargill started life as a communis, and like all good communist leaders became a dictator who got rich on the back of the workers. The ballot of the members at the first pit to strike was to NOT go on strike. This result was rejected by NUM officials and a strike called. That was Scargil's version of democracy. He wanted a class war and did his best to forment one.
So what about about the fact it was the cheapest deep dug coal in EU ?
@@KKTR3 The EU was not created until November 1993.
@@JamesRichards-mj9kw nit picking
How refreshing to read the comments and see someone talking sense- what you have said here is totally true.
United we stand
With SCARGILL in charge divided we fall as have been proved .
With Colonel Gaddafi...? 🙄
@@_Ben4810 President of Libya
Which one was the scab - the one sat on the right who is saying he is Notts leader?
my stepdad worked down the pits for 35 years in the 90s at that pit they voted 99,2% in faviour of it been closed he said it was like winning the pools he had over 50k in payouts a good pension that he still get now at 85 and was retrained as a class one HGV driver alot of his work mates used there redundancy to invest in there own buisnesses and all brought there council houses cheap and today you wouldnt want your kids to worl in the conditions they worked in would you
Your family has profited from everything the old Labour Movement fought for. And now what has North Notts got? (1) Sports Direct and Amazon jobs - no contract, no pension, no redundancy payments, no sick pay, no unions (2) private landlords and a lack of council housing (3) lots of Eastern Europeans, who came over because of the collapse of communism, that had kept their parents in work.
@@grahamjohn678 slightly racist! Where did the Libyan and Russian money go? Nice place Arthur had.
@@Intravenusdimilo slightly racist? how? what was racist in this guys comment? you virtue signalling politically correct fool
Are you going to talk about them kids on drugs in them places ,are you talking about them kids who didn’t make it out to university and now work in a sports direct warehouse,?
I Respect Other People's Views About Arthur Scargill But Everything He Said Came True.
The Pits Were Shut Communities Devastated.
Sometimes You Have To Strike and Fight For Your Job.
Roy Lynk And Notts Miners Should Have Backed The 1984 Strike It's a Simple as That.
Because We All Saw What Happened Some Years Later When The Notts Pits Got Shut.
The strike if it had been supported by Notts miners or not would have failed and the only thing it did was weaken the industry and accelerate its decline, because deep mined coal was simply not going to be economic in the UK or the wider world in the coming decade, as Trump demonstrated by giving subsidies and lowering safety standards to cut cost, but after four years there was less coal being mined and less miners in the USA.
The problem was , they could fetch coal from the other side of the world far cheaper than it could be produced here..the master tactician Scargill failed to get his troops together, and played into the hands of a tory government bent on curbing his power.
People like Lynk sprang up and whether they wanted to or not, him and Scargill helped Thatcher close pits faster than she could have dreamed of.
@@Mark-vq5dz I completely agree with you.
I guess you had to be there Terry, requests for a ballot were turned down, even the NUM of Notts leaders like Richardson and Chadburn asked for one, before they were intimidated/browbeaten into toeing Scargills line.
I remember 4 months into the strike playing cricket in Derbyshire and in the next field there were about 150 men talking about going back to work, and some said they were too frightened, 'as you know what will happen' etc etc.
He picked his fight at the wrong time, could have put Cortonwood into the review procedure which would have taken 3 months at least, and gathered his men together.
Instead he tried to bully folk out, and in Notts the people are stubborn, as in Leicester, Staffordshire and the North West.
I felt for those who believed in what they did, and still do, but he and Thatcher , and cheap import costs were the perfect storm. As for predicting closures, it didn't take a brain surgeon to work out we were in a job where so many pits didn't make money. In South Notts in particular, people were earning paltry bonuses, literally pence per shift.
We wanted a ballot, were swamped by pickets immediately, and men were attacked in the car parks as they got out of their cars to go in to work on many occasions......with things like that, they had zero chance of getting a strike vote.
I recall the day we had a vote, as I drove in, for a mile and a half, bulk freight lorries were backed up waiting to be filled with coal and I could see the lights of 2 trains waiting also to be loaded.
I voted, to strike btw!!, came out of the pit at the end of the shift, and the tip was empty, every bit had been taken, i'll never forget that.
Bentinck Colliery 1984.
She waited for him, triggered him, and destroyed him....in the end he was a man suing the NUM for his Barbican flat...Champagne socialist.
@@Mark-vq5dz Brilliant description of the those times..Scargill was a tyrant who turned families and good men against each other.A nasty far left rabble rouser and no more.
Both union leaders here are very articulate and are masters of the English language.
History has proved Arthur Scargill was right.
Hardly.
He was only right about the EU.
When you're working with the government, it's not hard.
R.I.P Basshead....
I don’t understand why they didn’t have a ballot, the strength would have been colossal
roy lynk super scab
Remember the Nottinghamshire miners, they would never have voted for a strike because none of their state of the art modern collieries were under any threat at all.
They got buried in detail. this should have been about the production of energy and strategic independence. And about social justice for workers of UK Scargil got sucked into the delegitamalisation game. Worker vs worker.
Where's the pits in Nottingham?
Coal mining should have been phased out during the 1960s.
The time when Britain did not invest in training in hairdressers...the cause of all the 1970’s problems.
Yup I agree Thatchers hair always looked like she had been dragged thru a hedge backwards
Hang about, weren't you the people who gave us the skinheads?
The hair dressers, or🤔 maybe sheep shearers
had to find a job somewhere during those times.
hahaha brilliant
While these idiots were debating procedure the working class died
Is Arthur still living in the NUM's apartment at the Barbican?
@hffp1 Nice work when you can get it
I read somewhere that Arthur tried to purchase the flat on the cheap so he could re sell it for treble the price…
Scargill was right.
Yes
He's a tyrrant
Had inside information.
The Notts Miners couldn’t see the wood for the trees. They thought by going back to work they’d be looked after. Talk about being gullible.
Scabs!
And as far as the 'Notts' miners are concerned,they're from Mansfield and not to be trusted.And i live in Nottinghamshire!
The Yorkshire miners followed Scargill, talk about gullable.
Having a strike, without a national ballot and coal stocks at record high and in the summer, who was Scargill working for, because it wasn't the miners.
@MrGoneTroppo 'scabs' but they were following NUM rules, each area had a independent vote, because Scargill wouldn't have a national ballot, they voted to work, Yorkshire didn't.
They were not the brightest..@@andrewh5457
Scargill took 100k from Libya and shared the money with colleagues to pay off their mortgages instead of giving it to the striking members!
Not true
True but it was 5 million
Arthur Scargill Is The One Person In Politics I Totally Admire And Respect.
He Told The Absolute Truth During The Miners Strike And If Only Roy Lynk And The Notts Miners Could Have Supported Arthur We Would Still Have A Coal Industry Today.
Your joking right, the man lied more than anybody, and took the country into illegal strikes, whilst.
@@almostanengineer scab
Yeah course he did he just feathered his own nest.
Notts miners were fools, big incentive production bonuses / job security - they got shafted as well. National ballot would
Not have made a difference
Coal industry for whom exactly? To stock pile under a nationalised coal industry?
What they wanted was for them to keep working while, we win the argument, what would they have done if we had a huge wage rise, and leaving their area on low money?, they would request transfers to the Yorkshire area.
Arthur was correct 100% .. here we are 40 years later
Once a scab always a scab
You talking about Scargill?
Arthur Scargill sporting a lovely combover (both infact) well before Trump.
The NUM leadership should have forseen pit closers when North Sea oil & gas came available for power generation in the late 70s early 80s. I married into a mining family in Fife, Scotland and the closures of pits has a devastating effect on communities all over U.K. The Tories looked down on working class people, it was badly handled on both sides 🇮🇪☘️🏴🙏
Coal mining should have been phased out during the 1960s.
Even after so many years, Scargill is probably the worst thing that ever happened to my region. Not popular in my post mining town.He had a hatfull of hate and no solutions.
Should have had a Ballot.
I never wanted to vote on another man's job,
@@paulmchugh7600 The Ballot would have been won. United and with sympathy and support in the Country. You would have won in weeks .
Spencerite type area would have still scabbed. Anyway Yorkshire coalfield lasted longer than Notts. So there you have it.
@@andrewfincher4435 You are wrong 😑!!! The Notts miners adhered to the overtime ban all through the strike and would have joined the strike. If they had been a Democratic ballot instead of intimidation , the miners would have had much more support in the Country. “There you have it”. Should have had a Ballot !!!
Never crossed a picket line and I'm wrong....now ain't that rich...Ive become used to selfish I'm alright Jack attitudes. The rest is history....Solidarity
Nottingham scabs till this day. Long time shamed
Do you believe in democracy ?
Divide and conquer... since the Romans a basic strategy , Lynk and Scargill were lead into this. Who orchestrated this ? Thatcher.
Scargill began a fight he could not win.
Notts went away.. up to them. NUM lost the plot in 82. Both guys meant well.
Complete clowns and dinosaurs.
Did we really used to run the country this way?
Yes, we did. It's much better now that we've sold it all off to the world's billionaires.
You did not live through this shit. I did -what has come since is nothing to do with what what went before - the miners winning would not have changed the billionaires - but it made life better for us average schmucks.
@@benjaminprentice7186 It didn't. It made it worse.
It was painful & petty...
Margaret Thatcher & conservatives be like, let’s shut the mines and import coal from Australia 🤯 and while we are here let’s destroy Manufacturing as well. 🤯😨
Labour closed more mines than the Tories ever did
@@jaywhyeff3797 She set up a lot of the problems communities are experiencing today as well, all for short term gain, prime example being the housing crisis, I mean look at communities now, nobody talks to each other, neighbor against neighbor, look after no1 mentality, also I don’t see other heavily debted countries massacres there manufacturing base like we did here in the U.K.
Let's open the mines!
@@HenningDiesel importing it from the likes of Australia like we did for 20 years seemed crazy idea, but to be fare Im all for the U.K. getting rid of cheap coal because climate change.
@@jaywhyeff3797 You forgot to mention that she and the conservatives were the ones that sold all the good housing stock off for pennies 85% discount in the first place, and failed to rebuild enough back, result being a huge shortage in housing, resulting in the crisis we have today, now we playing catch up to build enough housing.
Is scargill still squatting in the unions London flat.
I think he has lost it, but he made a cool profit when he brought his council flat, worth £2 million for just over £1 million. So much for wanting to help his people. Just in it for himself, like when he was president of the NUM, driving around in flash cars. He was then and now minted for life.
@dcarter3921 at the start of the strike he had a 2 up 2 down terraced house , after the strike he had a 4 bed bungalow with land .
Probably bought with money donated for the miners from other country's.
No miner received a penny
And everyone voted redwall for Johnson and lived happy ever after ...
Labour tried to prevent democracy in 2016-19.
Promised everything but led like sheep 🐑
Sounds like a massive waste of their members money and huge waste of time
With enemies like him who needed friends? Like General Galtieri for the 1983 election, Scargill guaranteed the 1987 election in favour of Thatcher.
Scabs........
Scab Greatreax the thief
But all those corrupt colliery pit bosses who for years took backhanders & kickbacks from contractors weren't thieves...???
I hear he's been something of a recluse these past years. Probably from all that grifting he did.
Probably that lifetime pension and and that flat in Central London that was part of the deal of being President of the Union of miners. I’m a capitalist but working class. We need unions to keep the bosses in check but these clowns from this period messed it all up. Now employees have no rights and redundancy within a month because no one trusts unions growing up in the 70’s.
@@mrlotusmic When you say you're a 'capitalist', that would imply that you have substantial private corporate capital, and that you have a say in how capital is used to create profit - 'working class' people have 'no say' as to how corporate capital is spent and how company policy is directed
I’m a capitalist and very proud of it
Thy aught to have snotted him Arthur.
Scargill is the JIMMY SAVILL of the NUM
The enemy within
I agree the enemy with in
Just that , that was the university’s not lads digging coal
Scargill.
That strike what a disgrace he was shouting his mouth off what is man should do what they should do well as usual sorry just go away on holidays and maybe somebody else to do the dirty work typical labour don’t think there’s any more to be said.
Cynthia, learn punctuation will you? Your contribution reads like jumbled none sense. The only single punctuation mark in the entire contribution, is a full stop you managed to remember at the end.
@@tracybeckett4107 Dont fuss...its You Tube.
The end result was that he ended up in a big house and no Union .
Today we use nuclear and renewable power, you could see that as far back as the late seventies coal was not going to be used as fuel for power stations.
The 1984-85 miners strike did not stop anything, it closed those mines down even faster .
For a long while the NUM should have worked with both the Labour and Conservative governments to help get mine workers retrained in other fields so that community’s did not get damaged because of the mines being shut down.
Today there’s 500 years worth of coal under central Britain which will never be used because of climate change.
So many workers could have been helped into other jobs , but politicians and unions got in the way ……….
I blame them both, and many suffered needlessly when common sense should have took presidence .
That comment you made are some of The best & most constructive I’ve seen written about all of this tragic set of circumstances that took place… Shame the powers that be didn’t have your views & outlook… They were too opinionated on both sides..
Roy Lynk stood up and defeated a tyrant in Scargill.He is a hero.
And what did Roy Lynk achieve?
Lynk got shafted
Now lives in bitterness due his betrayal
Lynk is no hero, even the notts miners know there got shafted by Roy and Maggie , but once a scab always a scab
What a pointless strike this was, there is no way that they were going to beat Maggie Thatcher "the Iron Lady".
They beat us because they stock piled millions of tonnes of coal Thatchers government wasn't going to go like in the seventys once bitten and all that cobblers
@@nigelkent-ux7ye we were grateful that they did stockpile coal, so that the nation couldn't be blackmailed/coerced by the miner's because we would have to give in to all demand's that the miner's made (because we would have all froze to death in the dark) it's just a shame that we couldn't have stockpiled Teacher's, Nurses & junior Doctors.lol
King Arthur
SCAB
The brilliance of Scargill.
That's a joke, calling a strike without a national ballot, with coal stocks at record high and in the summer, that was brilliant, who was he working for, because it wasn't the miners.
Thatcher ruined this old codger 🤣