British Rail | Rail Strikes | industrial action | Train Strikes | TV Eye | 1982
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- Опубликовано: 5 июл 2019
- Denis Tuohy introduces a programme where In the week that one rail strike was called of f, and another rail strike announced, TV Eye looks at the recurring problems haunting British Rail.
Reporter Bryan Gould talks to the workers and the managers, the unions and the board.
First shown: 01/07/1982
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Quote: VT27404
Notice the entrenched positions but the civil discourse and the appreciation of other points of view.
Remember working in catering in late 90s until 2003. Managers tried to implement "line bar rostering" from America. It meant you would work your 8 paid hours over the day to fit in with busy times. So you could work a shift 8 until 10 then 11.00 to 13.00 then 16.00 until 19.00. so you would be out your house most of day. But need to find something to do in the hours between shifts. Which unless you are doing a degree in spare time or a hobby to do it would be a nightmare. Thankfully it didn't come in
whats that got to do with 1982...
@@michaelwalton9528 urm the hours you muppet ?!🙄😔
related trivia - the reporter Bryan Gould who narrates the piece (and is visible from the back at one point) was on a sabbatical from his other career as a Labour MP. He lost his seat in 1979 and spent the subsequent Parliament working as a TV reporter. Was re-elected as a Labour MP the following year , becoming a key fixture in the shadow cabinets of Neil Kinnock in the late 80s / early 90s.
Almost elected as leader in 1992, losing out to John Smith.
I see "impartial journalists" weren't a thing back then either
I love watching these old videos
That Thames TV intro always reminds me of coming home from school and watching cartoons!!!
and Minder
Citv or bbc 😂😂
7:30 What an interesting chap that Sid Weighell is! A union man speaking logic and sense, that rare creature, a true conviction politician, working with the times and adapting to change without hyperbole or injected drama! No wonder he wasn't popular with the Labour Party National Executive Committee. Very interesting bio, seems to be as close to the genuine article as British Politics has ever produced. Can you imagine if Brexit was discussed in a similar way?
Interesting bio on him. He fought for electricification over dieselisation so he was ahead of his time. No uni education for him - left school at 15 and joined the railways and grafted. Unfortunately those days are long gone now when a working man could rise to high office through his own graft - the political class has stopped that in it's tracks.
@@Spookieham no pun intended 🤨😆
Thanks for share us the information THAMES TV!!
40 years later, we’re back on strike
Worse than ever now
and as always…down to a tory lot
That Sid Weighell, he has quite an interesting history. He wrote a book 'On the Rails', he was a footballer, been about. I googled him and his life is told on Wikipedia.
His house where he was born in 1922 still stands, although there is no blue plaque.
His book is worth a read.
Great video this.
I'm in Thailand and interestingly the railways are still state owned. They are very much there for the poorer people here. I used to do a 10 mile run on the train across Bangkok in 2007 for 4 pence, cost now 6 pence. As a mass transport system here it does a reasonable job and makes no profit, in fact it's running at a loss ( no surprise) but it helps the poor. Just saying.
50% price hike in 13 years? Disgusting! There will be revolt
I wonder how much money has been spent on new vinyls covering the locos, coaches and wagons, new station branding and staff uniforms every time a franchise changes...millions of pounds wasted since privatisation was introduced
@Bessie Hillum Would you prefer there to be no unions?
@Bessie Hillum You didn't quite answer my question
In reality the operation of the trains today only costs around £10 billion a year. Matt Hancock blew £32 billion on the PPE scandal alone, and Johnson is hiking military spending unnecessarily up to £60 billion this year. So we really aren't short of money to deal with this. Trains should be made free for all.
Some of the 317`s in the yard are still in use to day in 2021 !!!
Worked on the railway through the 80s, spent most of my time playing cards, drinking tea and smoking endless cigarettes. Got out when the whispers of privatisation started doing the rounds. We always said, if we didn't have passengers this could be a good little number.
haaa nice one all the best
The old days when I was a kid.
Brilliant.
More!@!
Just wish the unions were as strong now as they were then it’s a disgrace the way people are treated in the work place now.
Unions non existent now they don't fight for employees
They we too strong pre Maggie and too weak since.
They are having a go at minute
Wow there was definitely a case for rail privatisation in the UK. The underfinancing and lack of market signals reaching the MPs and Cabinet is mind-blowing. Terrible track and 1936 rolling stock. Beeching was an outsider reporting without prior knowledge of rail and his report was called and used to justify cuts in an unafordable rail system, the Tory government could not afford to modernise the full system and had to rapidly replace the 10,000 steam engines still in service with BR in 1967. One of the few things Beeching saw correctly was the question what is the max distance and time for economical passenger rail and what is minimum distance for economical freight rail. The critical report on British rail was Tony Croslands Orange paper of 1977. Crosland decided that British rail would cease to be a rail freight and passenger common carrier. Crosland decided that British rail would become a high fare fast intercity rail would be the function and the passenger rail would pay for the infrastructure with rail freight being a secondary function handling only niche and difficult freigh, but freight would be carried at marginal cost on what would be a passenger rail. Truly radical but still the basis of British railways today before, during and post rail privatisation after Blair nationalised the track.
I'm a Train Driver, o how the working conditions have demised. 8hr day! Wow what a luxury that would be. We do a 12hr day now. Of all types of working times. Our day can be changed from the moment we start work. We have been sold off by corrupt union leaders looking for a juicy retirement for many years! We now have only 3 days a month that we can plan our life aound, all other days off can be interfered with and our plans cancelled. On the positve side we do earn between 50 and 80k per year, BUT, this month I will be paying £2400 in tax! So where is the work/life balance? £2400 in tax an NI. We have been sold. You won, the management has won
Blackheath station is apparently Grade II listed then. I don't know when that came in, but it surely couldn't have been then.
Ahh 1980s. If only you knew the sheer misery the next 25 years would bring
Speak for yourself - I had a brilliant time
Fantastic time, job security, cheap services, free universities, no food banks required, houses for the many, yes the " bad old 1980,s ".
Early 1980s we’re pretty miserable. I bet Blackheath station is in a lot better condition today than 40 years ago.
This was how it was back in 1982, the foundation of a changing world of work. The " markets " were becoming the be all and end all, privatisation, efficiency savings, private investment and basically the world we have today. A few have it all while the world of work has changed beyond recognition.Eventualy they would prefer robots doing all the work to make maximum profit while the population starve at home.
@Bessie Hillum It's true the unions abused their power but since they have disappeared we have had a return back to the days of slave mentality. Fine by me if they want to mechanised as long as someone is happy to pay for the workers to stay at home and pursu their own lives. Why can't they computerised the banksters and parliament, get rid of corruption?
@Bessie Hillum Well you talk about in demand skills, I,m not against training and development but I would not want employers to exploit my skills and pay me " just about managing to survive " wages while the so called employer earns enormous ridiculous greedy uneccesary salaries.
What about the quality of these new jobs that replace the old? Do they consist of satisfying work, do they allow a balance beween home and working hours, do they pay livable wages?
Yes certain situations are a choice for some but not everyone. For example when the so called government decided to privatise our public services back in the 1980,s, we never had a choice, we were not asked for consent, nothing was argued in public. We are constantly told we are governed by consent, we live in a democracy, does that mean we are allowed by some people who feel they have a right, to get a vote one time and then after this they can do whatever they like behind closed doors??
I guess like many people we have seen how it was before and we dont like how it looks now! Its a mess and its falling apart.
@Bessie Hillum your ideas sound like the survival of the fittest mentality, the unempathic cold idea of individualism. The I'm ok so who gives a dam about anyone else.
There is even grandious speech, almost looking down on any who dare challenge your views. I'm out at this point, I'll bid you good day.
The guy at 8.28 knew the score.....its still true today and commuters continue to pay through the nose for a crap service.
Run down the railways so as to make it more acceptable to the public for privatisation....THE NHS NEXT.
British Rail "We're getting there" Yeah, right! After this I'm so glad they eventually broke it up and sold it all off. No more strikes, No more delayed trains! (Rail travel is just a lot more fucking expensive!)
Erm, I think we still have delayed trains.
Is now £10,000 for a season ticket from Brighton to London.😉🤢
Alan Watts Tamworth to London Euston, using any route has just came out @ £19000 on the trainline.com that’s half my salary for the year! That’s disgusting
Its absolutely disgusting and criminal how much a season ticket for a frankly appalling, overcrowded, rail service costs. Railways should have remained in public ownership and be subsidised out of general taxation. I'd far rather the government provided decent trains than paying for the anti-British progressive propaganda spewed daily by the BBC.
I've just looked - it's £4k. That's a lot, but less than £10k. Where is that figure from?
@@davehowe4714 also don't know where you've got that price from... National Rail currently price Tamworth to London at £7,000. Or £15 a day over a 5 day week.
Sam Robinson well that was a month ago so prices may have changed but that’s what was offered at the time checked 🙂
Have just had another look and the price I found is still valid, the price you’ve found exists but is restricted to a couple of rail operators unlike the £19000 season ticket
Pat seems the life and joy of a party!
@The Marquis De Quigley He honestly seems understandably stressed about the whole situation, and he knew his time on camera was important to get his point across, and didn't want to mess it up. Added to that, the guy was not a worthless but charismatic media darling, he was a railwayman doing a valuable job. RIP your grandfather.
18:15 "we might not need a railway" 40yrs later -- Internet + off shoring = Work from Home. And the railways are running 60-70% below numbers before COVID.
Laws about giving someone a lift??
Got to be honest, I wouldn't loose my break. Question is why does the first leg arrive 10 mins late?
5:59 yip i remember stations like that.
More to come
Far more people work on the railway now and train crew have had huge pay rises. At the same time, passenger numbers have doubled. But still, most comments on here will say how bad privatisation has been and things were much better then.
Interesting isn't it? Even with the pandemic and work from home, railways are still vital - more so today with the green movements than ever before.
Is it true that far more people work on the railway now? Do you have a source for that?
39 hour week?? why?? Doesn't like the rest of the developed world use 40 as a general benchmark?? You can easily divide 40 by 8...surprisingly exactly 5 times (duh), making it 39 only creates confusion and cumbersomeness, doesn't it?
THATS A GOOD NAME FOR SOMEONE WHO WORKS ON THE RAILWAYS, SID WHEEL
Did you know that ASLEF is an anagram for "total and complete bastard"?
Do you vote Conservative! 💩
That comes from The Young Ones
And in 2019 trains are overcrowded and we need more trains.
It all changed around 2000.
trains are more overcrowded bcos the countrys overcrowded
@@michaelwalton9528 Thanks to Blair and Cameron opening our borders to low-skilled mass immigration, yes, we are overcrowded.
Because people are actually using the trains now. There was space on the trains in the early 1980s because there were hardly any passengers. Hardly a good thing.
The eight hour day agreement of 1915 was supposed to be a maximum eight hour day, not that you got paid for eight hours if you didn't do eight hours work. BR management also demonstrated they were incapable of managing a company without the employees hating them. Parliament was never capable of managing a railway company. It was a bad deal all the way around.
@Katrina S How so? Are British trains performing worse than they did in 1982? Are there still constant strikes? Do they still have engines that are 50 years old? Baggage rooms being flooded when it rains?
@Katrina S I see. The old Tories vs Labour thing. What party was in power for almost 13 years after privatization (sorry for the yank spellings), could have reversed it at will, yet never did? Why did the former Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen general secretary Lew Adams moved to work for Virgin Trains, and said on a 2004 radio phone-in programme: "All the time it was in the public sector, all we got were cuts, cuts, cuts. And today there are more members in the trade union, more train drivers, and more trains running. The reality is that it worked, we’ve protected jobs, and we got more jobs.
Railroads in the US created their own problems with bad management and militant unions constantly at war, rather like we saw in the UK. The railroads got better management, unions became more realistic in their demands, and now mainline railroads are thriving. Yes, there are less employees than in 1948, but that's a natural byproduct of increased automation, longer trains, and less switch with containerized freight. Still, the numbers of railroad employees, once we factor out the years of recession,, especially 2008-2010, when the severe recession of those years drastically cut freight car loadings, has been steadily rising since 1999. 1997 was deepest trough of railroad employment, with 220,000 employees on the payroll. It had risen ever since, with 246,000 employees in 2018. Most of these are high paying jobs, and many are union..Employment has been rising due to increased demand, but revenue per employee continues to climb. they have better equipment, more effective computerization and automation, and improved track and grades, all paid for with revenue from railroad operations.
Our railroads have never existed to provide jobs, They exist to provide service at a profit. We have the most productive railroad employees in the world. They are a positive benefit to the country, paying tens of billions in taxes to the federal state, and local goverments and spend tens of billions for supplies and capital improvements. We continue to have the lowest freight rates in the world while providing more jobs a better return to shareholders.A large portion of business lost to trucks in 70's and 89's has been won back, reducing the numbers of trucks on the road, decreasing accidents, decreasing fuel consumption, and decreasing air pollution. One of the reasons why Amazon and other companies can promise two day delivery to anywhere in a country about 37 times larger in area then the UK is the fast freight services the railroads provide. All this was accomplished without government ownership and without costing taxpayers a dime. I realize that, as a socialist, you want the utopia of government ownership of the means of production. Give me the performance records for British railroads between 1948 and 1995, when they were nationalized. If they are just as good, I'll sign up for your utopia.
@Katrina S Ah, so the Labour during that 13 years wasn't real Labour. Kind of like Stalin. Mao, and Castro weren't doing communism right. Corbyn impresses me as pretty near a real communist, so maybe he'll do it right. However, my question was how have US railroads done so well compared to British railways. You seem to have ducked that whole part.
Sar Jim
When will you learn? Capitalism fails because it works; but socialism fails because it's never been tried properly...
@@sarjim4381 There are engines which are over 30 years old (the Pacer 142).
i wonder how much money they saved by not having gaurds.
i wonder how much money they lost because people could just bunk a ride without having their tickets inspected.
@Bessie Hillum you can't computerise ticket checking. many stations have no ticket styles and you can just waltz on and off the train free of charge.
this was the choice that the companies made, i do not feel bad for any lost revenue
@Bessie Hillum i didn't even mention the underground
@Bessie Hillum you seem busy having your own union busting argument based on things i never said, so I'll just leave you to that.
@Bessie Hillum it's fine, the future you propose makes things a lot easier to ride for free.
@Bessie Hillum the world exists outside of london
Why some many commercials?
12:41 - Station Road, Harlseden!
They should renationalise them.
It's happening!! Franchising is coming to an end!!
Well seems to be listening to it the politicians didn’t have the vision of the understanding of the changing world and the railwaymen might be selfish but they were on the right side of history
Push people hard enough, expect them to push back .
13.55. That prick with the snobby voice needs a good kick in the nuts.
Entrenched positions all round but everyone involved in this puts their position across strongly with rational and factual anecdotes to justify their position. From the days when Unions were run by actual workers not lawyers and entitled University graduates.
Good job, they didn´t shut down the railways in the 1980´s! The roads would be blocked.
Well hello
5:00 Disrepair station 6:13 we want them to travel and comfort but what can we do 6:26 this Railway is not the railway I knew after the war 7:00 40% of that dates from 1936 7:33 we are decaying rapidly8:23 paying for a rotten service 10:30 no upgrade 12:50 this guard looks like Dr Martin Luther King 14:30 declined by 5% 15:00 this guy looks like Stephen Hawking 16:50 throwing out of work through no fault of their own
What’s your point??
💪 unite, lads
Who did say only the french workers go on strike?
Nobody. The French are associated with strikes because French strikes are often theatrical and the unions are really good at getting attention to their cause. You never hear about workers "kidnapping" their bosses, that's just the French that do that!
Ah the good ol' French love a strike don't they? They practically invented striking!
Just think if they’d got rid of the railways... our road network would be fubar’d
I like ian hegggie first mentioned intercity bus services, car sharing, cycling and motor biking... hmmm what's the connection here i wonder 🤔🤔🤔
That is typical governments road and air before rail... even now it's the same.. they will tell you different but there intentions are shown by the way they vote..
1:20 Pete Waterman
Pip Pip Cheerio
Bob’s your Uncle
Now we back to Railway strikes, hope they strike it lucky this time🤣😂
Pats a bit lazy, isnt he?
When you see this in 2023, I think most people miss the time with British Rail.
39 hour week? Lazy bums. Work longer, harder, and more efficiently.
Workers can only work with what they are given tech was low then but still expensive, then came thatcher with her lies, we now have the most expensive rail travel in the world and compared to other countries its miles outbof date
interesting how you can manage the world, but not your own country, how it happens to all old and current powers
Just the Britain we would return to under a Jeremy Corbyn Government
Where the working class have real power? How terrible.
Good......
@@lutherblissett9070 you don't realy believe that do you.
Tax the bankets and the rich.
Good idea, that is until the rich move as they can afford to, and as for the banks and we are not talking about the one in the high street but the ones in the city of London. Simply put, unplug phones and computers and relocate to another skyscraper in another country. Like Poland. But he has pissed all this cash away buying the rail and utilities back and someone will have to pay. Guess who that someone will be, the average working person..
@@michaelwalker1119 as someone who works on the railway now, and is more pro labour than the Tories, I agree he shouldn't buy the railways back.
Because if he did, we could invest all the profit back into the railway and really get it going how it should be.
But then as our politics in this country, the Tories will get back in, and they will cut the railway back just as they did before and the railway will suffer once again.
Just look at all the work we have to do now because we didn't keep it up to date.
The thing is, things like the railway, post office and other potential money making markets, if it's doing well and makes money, the money will be paid off. Not only that it's not going into private hands it'd go to our country.
We can't keep selling our public owned assets, they make money if they are invested in
@@SomeGuy-lw2po The problem is ,IF they get in and IF they buy back the railways what will be the first thing that happens. Strike , The Unions will hold them to ransom ASAP. and unlike now were there are multiple companies running different areas it will be one big company so back to the old one out all out.
Nothing changes. Still on strike in 2024 and still an absolutely shite service
JC4PM
That aged well. He's not even Labour leader now ;)
Lazy bastards. We had to work 9hrs 36m on London Transport !
Tube?
@@jay-xo9dx Bus rate !
@@peterbustin2683 I suppose you also called all the bus workers “lazy bastards” when they went on strike?
@@jay-xo9dx Our Garage never went on strike ! Thats so 70s !!, boring !
@@peterbustin2683 you must of all been company heads then I’m guessing? No wonder bus unions have so little power now
I would've happily drove an HST for nothing.
so ,just WHAT stopped you applying to be a train driver and driving H.S.T,s ?? im sure you could have coped with the endless 3am starts in rain ,frost and or snow !!
aslef = asleep
The industries, had changes..the systematics..thats marvlously..they have..unionionized..diffrnta unions are..vehicles, others... desed...forgot..too spelled this words..I'm postal..systematically, somes custodians too..not all labors, systematic, is aldepwndwd..the individuals,who's org, this his, or hers org, they's des.
.
The brits, labors unions..these emoyees, get a goods benefits, health.. dentals,plans.. pay vacationing..also..unions plans..good salaries, all depended on..theirs experience
I types n..too quicks so go..on..rewrites it..again. experiences.yes it..they haves a skilled..they got it..for..attended too..a nothers programs..after..🎓 🎓 🎓..universities, or colleges,org, most of the..times..they checked half of the times..no..becuz..individuals, pay too..br...paying..too stays there's becuz..they did'nt comes n..with experienced..so..the bosses, try too..fits the situations..thats been going on..for a longs times..I heard a individuals, told them, give me, the $100.00 💵 💵 💵..the employees, haves no options..but how longs thats..bribery..is going..too..last the bosses, is fed up..becuz..they can't keeps doing this..
The economic ignorance of rail unions and so called Labour affiliated Transport economists is amazing. The change proposed by the rail management from a strict max of 8 hrs a day on the trains for rail drivers and train crews to a flexible 13 hrs ( but the same total 39/40hrs a week) is not marginal. In commercial operation the basic obligation is to break and exceed the operating cost and secondly some contribution to long term rolling stock and track signalling plant maintenance. The change flexible operation makes it much closer or easier to reach these various levels of immediate cost and actual profit requirements Passing these required revenue levels and being in profit or loss is basic. Which side of the ledger may be determined by quite small alterations to staff conditions and is not a small or marginal question. Clearly the British rail unions were not in business.
If people like Thatcher and Clark, Helen had actually ridden trains rather than being of the opinion that there lower middle class potential vote would not be seen dead on one. They might have thought more about railways and some sort of rail privatisation.
Gould is of course a failed NZ academic who somehow ended up as a UK Labour MP. That was fortunate for NZ as like the NZLP President 36years ago , Jim Anderson, Gould is so myopic, and politically clueless and socially challenged, that he (Anderson ) actually thought that Clarks impassioned activist politics was ' religious' and like Jim Anderson , Clark was actually a displaced Bible basher. And you wonder why Gould and that other Vicars son, Cunliffe were rapidly deposed by their own party.
Thank god we tackled the unions
Yeah thank god for zero hour contracts with minimal wages and with no confidence in making a decent living or future.
@@razor000999000 Disposable incomes for the poor are at a record high
razor000999000 A NLW has still been achieved and introduced with unions that behave themselves, however we no longer have to put up with ridiculous, petty strike action anymore like the 70s.
@@importantjohn In China perhaps.
@@importantjohn what load of crap, if your poor you don't have income which is disposable, that's something the clowns in Westminster would say.