Have I got this straight, Jonesy? A $40 million computer tells you you're chasing an earthquake, but you don't believe, and you come up with this on your own?
You always launch the F-14As with the Air To Air Long Range loadout which only give them 1 Phoenix with 2 Sparrows and 2 Sidewinders. You should instead launch them with Intercept Long Range which give them 4 Phoenixes, 2 Sparrows and 2 Sidewinders. As you can guess this loadout is better for this kind of engagement.
@@mikedoria6770 in reality, if any USN pilot ever got a successful kill with a Phoenix, it would literally be the first in history. Every Phoenix fired in anger either had a failed rocket motor or missed the target. They got retired for a reason, two years before the Tomcat was retired.
@@jimfrazier8104 the problem was the missile motors aren't meant to sit around for year upon year before use! When they finally had a chance to fire them did not work surprise surprise.... applies to any ammo overtime it goes bad due to a range of factors: storage, moisture,etc
48:40 that is what weapons free/tight is. Weapons free is basically "go hunting" Weapons tight is "shoot the things I tell you to shoot only" Weapons safe is "don't shoot anything"
SO I have not watched the full vid yet, but based off some comments in the beginning: the A-7E is actually really useful for anti-ship. There's a stealth17 vid from this morning, showcasing that you can use A-7E's to carry ARM's to snipe defensive radars, before having your other platforms engage with harpoons, thus making your strike more effective. Plus cluster bombs do a number on anything they hit.
@@Tuning3434 ...how does radar jamming affect ARM's being useful for anti-radar? As for nerfs, I hope not. People obsess over passive stealth for fighters and such, but the worst EWAR is still miles better at protecting its host than the best passive stealth. EWAR should be effective
@@TheEngineeringTactician radar jamming made it possible for him to operate very close next to a soviet carrier group, without getting shot by their missles. (they haven't launched a single interception missle)
The only reason those planes got anywhere as close as they did was because the Soviets couldn't shoot their SAMs due to jamming, which is something that doesn't happen anymore
I was in the USN submarine force in the eighties to the mid-nineties. We did not even have the Seawolf-class SSNs yet, much less the Virginia-class that followed them when the Seawolfs proved too expensive to fill the fleet with. Los Angeles-class was the hottest thing we had back then. Also, this is the second time you've run this scenario and left your main low-level attack aircraft (the A-7E) sitting in the hanger. If you send them out with HARM missiles and run them in at wavetop-height, you'll find that Harpoons and Tomahawks are a lot more effective after the enemy radars have recently had a Mach-3 "blast-fragmentation enema".
Issues/improvements: 1. Changing orders for F-14 when they are already guiding an aim 7 to target 2. Forgetting about tomcat flights and leaving them circling the carrier not helping 3. Not turning ECM on 4. Launched anti ship planes with strike load out 5. Telling RTB tomcats to fight 6. Not telling tomcats with no missiles to RTB 7. Telling planes with no fuel and no weapons to engage 8. Could have had helos up around the carrier group to spot the anti ship missiles better 9. Could have landed the attack planes that were loaded with strike and reloaded them for anti ship 10. Left 10+ planes circling the carrier doing nothing for 20 plus minutes 11. Telling tomcats to fire on a mig that already has a SM2 in the air fired at it 12. Left tomcats on weapons tight then got mad that they weren’t firing 13. Didn’t use recon planes for 20 minutes could have used them to soak missiles for the tomcats 14. Didn’t send back up the tomcats that landed and reloaded 15. Telling planes to fly away from the carrier then there about to run out of fuel 16. Not using the S3 planes with harpoons 17. Didn’t check F14 air to air intercept loadout 18. Leaving planes in holding patterns with no orders for way to long 19. Not realize the red circle is the weapon engagement range
@@theverminator9923 I wouldn't call it aggravating. I don't think Cap is familiar with this game nor this era of systems, and he's learning. He'll make mistakes, doesn't mean the video isn't worth watching (as some other people have suggested).
@@ValoriusI don't think Cap is familiar with this game nor this era of systems, and he's learning. He'll make mistakes, doesn't mean the video isn't worth watching (as some other people have suggested).
Part of the problem is that the player is expected to be CAG, SWO and ASWO at the same time. Many of the things you listed have multiple officers dedicated to their operation in a CSG. It would be very different if, in real-time, another person could watch the battle tracker/carrier menu (independently, not just a screen-share) and say "hey, order the recon planes out" or "tomcats armed and refueled, suggest sending them on this bearing". I think it's just too much information for one person, especially in real time. ESPECIALLY since it seems every 1v1 air engagement requires the admiral's supervision.
Despite the just *comical* imbalance in the AI control / AAM success between red and blue, this was one of the most enjoyable GR videos I've seen in a while! *Love* the format. Not knowing where the red fleet is to start with hits completely differently to the old school DCS fare. And even though it's single player, the Admiral / XO chatter is really fun to follow along with. When they get the bugs sorted out, this is going to be a super fun video format!
I was stationed on both Sturgeon class (637) and Los Angeles class (688) subs and both will easily make near 20 knots at all heads two-thirds at periscope depth without cavitating in the right conditions. They will do even better in cold water up north. Cavitation is the formation and subsequent collapsed of vapor bubbles due to the passage of an object through a liquid medium at a faster rate than what the water can effectively backfill in the void passage of the object. Cavitation mostly comes into play with the rate of propellor acceleration. Cavitation over time also leads to propellor damage and is relatively less efficient for the energy cost vs. speed. Basically, if you are in shallower or warmer water (less dense) then you try to accelerate more slowly and to a lower speed (25 knots or so) to avoid cavitation. When you are in colder and deeper water (more dense) then you can accelerate more quickly to a higher speed (>35 knots) without cavitating. The sub control center (Conn) calls for a specific speed (ahead 1/3, 2/3, full, flank) and the maneuvering operators (engineroom controller) open the throttles to the steam turbines at a rate to reach that speed at the best rate without cavitating. This is all automatic with training and technology. In emergencies Conn can specific a speed (typically flank) and authorize cavitation in order to make that speed at the fastest rate in order to GTF out of there ASAP.
1:01:59 The moment someone say vampire in a ship will the most chilling moment in a battle. Now imagine being in that position without any ability to stop time like here.
Sea Power is a great game. Check Tomcat patrol armament compared with full armament, I think that is why only one phoenix missile on patrol load out, to give longer range. Also the Corsairs can, I think, carry shrike anti radar missiles and you can use those against enemy warships.
Just starting the video but I know this must have been a crazy amount of work, even compared to the other massive battles. thanks for all you do cap, lots of love
this game is so incredibly cool, and every video i watch by every single channel is so frustrating bc the ships and planes refuse to stay in formation or follow orders
@@cyrusjalali1571 This Sea Power playthrough is standard meat & potatoes Air Superiority. Maybe adjustment on delegating targets for fighter groups in the AI by the developers might be needed for multiple target engagements selected in a group. Streamer should have put the F-14's on weapons free as soon as their bandits entered effective AIM-54 range so they couldn't run away from them. However, he didn't and took forever to queue up attack orders and by that time, most was short range to knifefight range air engagements. This is basic stuff you have to be very good at or you gonna get your rear end handed to you on hard scenarios.
To be fair to him, the air combat micro in sea power is pretty brutal at the moment. You simply cannot trust your aircraft to do what they should do automatically, especially when they’re engaging things that can actually kill them. The devs have addressed it and want to improve it, because they believe it requires _too much_ micro right now.
Hey there Cap! I was reading an old Cold War book about naval tactics. In the book the A-7 could be used along with EA-6Bs to knock out escort vessels around the Kiev or Kirov. It could do so by flying low with shrikes or HARMs against ship radars and mavericks or walleyes against ships.
Watched beginnng to end. So good A few good constructive co.ments from viewers it seems . The needlessly aggressive ones disappoint me to no end. Those who can't do, whine and criticize, it would appear. Very cool video!
I feel like this game has the potential to be absolutely brilliant provided they can get the aircraft AI sorted out so you don't have to babysit their every move (for all the good that seems to be doing).
Cap, Fly and GR, that was excellent. Would you kindly consider doing a another vid of the 2nd half of this battle? BLUE decides to rearm and hunt down the RED fleet, and the RED fleet attempts a fighting withdrawal to break contact fighting to preserve the carrier whilst BLUE is trying to work around the defences to sink the carrier as a priority target.
Red would use land based long range anti-ship Bears, Backfires, and Badgers. In fact they should have had a few Maratime Patrol Bears up gathering Elint.
- I think you can get boundary layer information by hovering over the depth with the sub - You can change the CAP loadout to take more phoenixes. You had them set to "Air-to-Air Long Range" - If you want fighters to target someone specific, you should do that manually with weapons tight. "Weapons Free" essentially means "do whatever you want" (and target selection AI is godawful from what I've seen) Every time you set your tomcats to weapons free, they start going after 7002 (enemy AWACS that's 400nm away) - If there are subs, you might want your sub to deploy the towed array (if it has one, I don't know about LAs) - I think you want your ECM behind the fleet and relatively low (6k ft is good), then you can blind enemy missiles (radar guided, at least) the whole way in - To turn on ECM, select the plane, click the "Offensive ECM" on the bottom of the screen, then click on the map where you want to aim it. I don't know if you can select a target specifically vs just a direction - From what I've seen, the AIM-9s in this game fire at the absolute max range, which usually causes them to miss. Try getting the planes closer before you use them - When the Tomcats are winchester and go RTB, I think they're resetting to very low altitude, so when you retask them to shoot an AIM-9, it's launching from 6k ft at a 37k ft enemy - "And he's turned around and given up" I think it might be more helpful to think of your "attack him" command as "send one missile that way". He hasn't given up, he sent a missile - it just missed. - :) If you want to reduce the sound, select the submarine :D I love your videos!
Just finished it up. Couple of slow spots were y’all had to fumble about with the finicky controls for the aircraft, but y’all are on a great path. Continue to work with it and y’all will be killing it! Great job GR!
Just to let you know you can use the bottom panel of your screen to give orders to the unit you have selected like where it says EMCON or where it tells you the weapons
Great video. Looks like it has a very steep learning curve. Just a suggestion Cap and Fly, you may want to break it into much smaller missions at first till you get the hang of controlling the units.
I see so many ways to improve/do things different! Having Fly do his thing really slowed it down to a watchable pace, greatly appreciated Fly! I cannot wait to get a copy!! Loving what I'm learning while watching you learn, keep up the great videos! I'd swap out Admirals, let's see what Simba will do, and Grump? Let's have them all put on the Admiral's cap, and Cap just clicks the things and pulls his lever...?
Hope you're feeling better Cap and good job on the demonstration with the German. A couple of things tactically I think you would want to do as blue given the range dynamics on the ASh for the Reds. 1. Put the combat group going E full to maximize the range - that way you can utilize the advantage of the F14 as your long range intercept. Bringing the Blue group closer creates absolutely no tactical advantage. 2. Put 4-5 F14 groups out early in a long range picket line as the AWACS caught up. I'd want 2 groups of F14 out at least 250/300 miles and ASAP so start on burn to get range ASAP for early intercept with the others in staged waves 50 miles back. 3. If you can get air superiority or see a good trend, I'd go with 2 A6 groups and split WNW/WSN as you know with the distances there at least one of the 2 could launch and get back and worst case use the S2 for refueling of the other group to keep the deck clear for the FY14 rotations if needed. The game looks like it has some teething issues and obviously the F14 and Phoenix gameplay was just totally off the mark with the AI but it does look like it could be a decent wargame simulator in time.
My take is that deploying the Tomcats with 1 Phoenix each cost the range war on the Migs. They outnumbered the Tomcats, so having 2 or 3 Phoenixes per Tomcat could have been more effective at taking them down (and leave some extra Phoenixes for Ko-45 and SSN-19s?) Edit after 1:35:00: Cap I believe you can outfit a different loadout for Tomcats with more Phoenixes, you sent them up with "Air to air long range", which I believe has fewer missiles for a lighter aircraft, but outfitting plain "Air to Air" has more Phoenixes
The AIM 54 did terrible. Not suited for "maneuverable" targets like the Mig. If you look at the majority of successful interceptions it was the Sparrow AIM 7 that did the most kills. And I don't think this game has modeled for AIM-54s to target anthship cruise missiles right?
Cap and gang I know people criticise a lot in comments but tell them to split and just buy the game on the 13th This is the internet after all - all great sea power vids so far keep up the good work
7:45 If they detect two of your planes they can triangulate their starting point. You could have them fly to different points north or south of you and then diverge from there.
It's already kinda mentioned, On your tomcats you launched with "long range" which refers to the aircrafts range not the missile range. If you want CAP or AWACS escorts then you want to take the long range loadout for obvious reasons. But if you want to fight an air war you want to take the other loadout which carries 4 pheonixes. When you tell them to go weapons free they do just spam out pheonixes like they would in DCS. As for why they planes were being stupid in this video, it's a mixture of where they were told to go and also just the basic AI. If you want them to get air superiority around an area I think you just have to give them a move order at where you want them to clear and then tell them to go weapons free. Ocassionally you will have to select which weapon to use and click on the targets manually. Obviously with sparrows they can only fire one at a time (they won't be able to fire pheonixes or sidewinders though while guiding a sparrow so if you think they're ignoring you it's almost always because it has a sparrow out) As for other bits of advice, with your tomcats they tend to work best when you group them up for a time-on-attack or while being able to rotate them. basically, launch a wave of pheonixes at long range, wait for them to go active and run and then send in another wave of tomcats to replace them onto a different set of targets. Definitely keep a reserve though for the inevitable attack from Ko45s. as for how your fleet got spotted? I actually have no idea. It's possible that their awacs could detect the carrier itself and they could fire a wave of missiles at it. if an awacs was at 40k ft it could theoretically see 400nm out but I didn't think you were 400nm away at the time. The last thing then which I leave entirely in your hands, maybe 450nm isn't a long enough start distance? As crazy as that sounds lol. I figured 400nm would be enough but perhaps not
Fabulous work chaps...the only thing missing is my ownership of the game, which will be rectified next week when its out 😊...see you in the skies (Blade)
I’d recommend using the RA-5 in the future. It’s radar is not as good as the E-2’s but it also has an ESM sensor and a fantastic visual sensor. I’ve seen videos where it VISUALLY detects really small ships like Osa’s from ~75nmi away. Plus, it’s super sonic so if you spot aircraft coming to shoot it down it can run away much better than an E-2 can and give you much more time for fighters to come over and defend it.
haven’t watched but one issue I’ve already noticed and I didn’t see someone point out is ignoring the RA-5. They are actually an extremely potent reconnaissance and search plane. They can see far, but they also have very long range and are fast, so you can have them zoom in take a look and then zoom back out. They do also have a radar you can turn on. Next thought is that as opposed to having the carriers heading west, I would’ve launched it immediately turned east. But as much distance between you and the enemy as you can, so you have as much time as possible to get the planes on them. Once fired on, you should also probably be all ahead flank so the ships are as far away from where they were expected to be as possible. As others have pointed out, the air to air intercept load out of the F14 has all the phoenixes.
Because I dismally failed "political correctness", I somehow hear AVACS in Anton Chekov's voice. Made me chuckle incessantly through the video. Highly recommended if your brain is warped like mine! 😅
Probably put the EW aircraft more closer to the carrier and when you see the missiles make the EW aircraft go towards them when detected and jam them this should make a bright light "kinda thing" so that they cannot track the CSG
Hi. Just started the video and I have a question and suggestion. As a former submariner of the generation of this scenario, I know the Red force would send forward SSGNs to be the primary weapon against a carrier group. So the question is does this game platform have classic SSGNs like Charlie or Oscar? If yes, then add two to three in front of the red carrier group then send them out in a parallel line spaced at 30-40 miles apart. In front of that line add two Victor class and two kilo subs.
Biggest thing I picked up on regarding your fighters and them not engaging the enemy, or the enemy dodging your fighters missiles, was that your fighters were almost always vectored away from the enemy. then you would individually tell them to attack a target. They would then automatically return to their vector meaning they were no longer providing any guidance to the missile, or trying to engage the enemy plane. If you want your planes to continue to engage the enemy or guide their missiles, you need to have them vectored in the right direction. You also should be looking to get all your planes in the air at the start. you spent a long time not launching anything before the enemy missiles fighters showed up, when you could have had all your own fighters launched ready to engage.
Yes! Fire the Phoenix or Sparrow then turn slightly to maintain a lock but also keep separation. Stuff CAP knows from DCS but he got fuddled by having so much happening.
That was epic! Enjoyable format to the video, good to at least pretend not to know what's out there. Like to see one of the other GR Create a mission / plausible scenario for you to play blind.
Feedback from a valued viewer: I'm not going to be able to consistently watch 2+ hour videos, though I did watch this one. Also, I'd be interested to see you use the subs more since that is one of the differentiators from DCS.
Awesome video, looking forward to you learning the game in and out, as well as upcoming bug fixes and improvements for the game. Game looks amazing but still needs some work!
The A-7 Corsair can be configured for anti-ship using 2× AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles. They could follow up on the Intruder mission. (mentioned below).
I was going to get this game on release, but given the number of bugs GR has shown up, and that I have seen on other channels, I shall wait, this is not yet ready for sale. Great vids Cap
need to keep tabs on your ships too, they had no orders and was just sitting in place (only speeding up when the carrier moved). Also once you had a location for the enemy fleet I would have sent the CGN at flank speed on a course on that heading so they can have a crack at the Vampires before they get to the Carrier.
Probably could've used the Vigilantes for searching for the enemy ships too, they are recon planes after all. And scramble the A-7s for anti-air with sidewinders.
Hi Cap, I'm doing well thanks for asking. I hope you are too. Yes, we want long range, more realistic war games that reflect how battles would be in real life with the given tech. However, if you want to ramp up the crazy and have 20 Iowas come around the corner of an island and engage in point blank range (~20 miles) with 20 Kirovs or Slavas that would be interesting. Or a mix of 10 Iowas plus 10 Virginias against 10 Kirovs and 10 Slavas. Honestly, you kind of need to go very realistic or very over the top to make these videos stand out. Just my two cents.
As a potential recreation you might want to think about Barrrat Tillmans "The sixth battle" off the coast of South Africa. The scenario involves a Soviet supercarrier plus escorts with Su27 and AWACS with a Kiev class with Yak 141's. US side is a Forrestal class (F14 and F18) and a Tarawa class US carrier groups with AV8B's. If Backfires with shipwrecks and comtempary Submarines for both sides are available in Sea Power this could be possible to do....
And I would expect the russian fleet to stay under the backfire bubble anyway, adding fighter escorts for them and providing sensor data (and of course missiles of their own). A US carrier fleet far from the soviet union is not in their immediate interest. But I did like that book.
I can't find the moment in the video, but I think I saw Walleyes in one of the load outs for the A-7. If so, you are definitely discounting the A-7's too quickly. The Walleye is a glide bomb with TV guidance. In other words, a big ass warhead with wings. If so, lead with Shrikes, followed by Harpoons, and then use the Walleyes to mop up.
Yeah good vis BtW! Can you ask devs if they can look at rules for each asset. Eg: fleet defence. Prioritise Sanger to ship vs air to air - or rtb when out of long and mid range weapons - or fight till all ammo inc guns expended etc
The nature of naval warfare is slow and tedious planning. Followed by moments of intense terror. Been there, done that, but only in training and a few pucker moment IRL.
Cap absolutely fantastic video❤ and as for all the wine comments in the comment section just ignore them. This is a brand new game you're just now learning it and I mean take some suggestions but please don't let it bother you
Also fly same goes for you everybody complaining or that does complain about you can GTFO!!! You were doing fantastic and absolutely love hearing you in these videos❤
The vikings were used as scout bombers. You could sling 2 harpoons on them and send them out to scout. If they make surface contact they can throw a harpoon out and run for home. T
I noticed that many of your micromanaged F14s were Weapons Tight for most of the engagement. Issuing Cease Fire appeared to change Weapons Free status back to Weapons Tight. Perhaps this may have prolonged their disengaging behaviour?
Cap - quick request. Can you provide us the rough year you're using when creating the scenario? With Sea Power covering several decades from the 1960s through the 1980s, it'll help to know if we're seeing a 1975 era contest, a 1982 contest or a 1989 contest between the two sides. Wolfpack and Stealth17 do this with their videos, defining the scenario tightly (e.g the Indian Sea, 1981 or Taiwan Strait, 1969). One of the great things about Sea Power over DCS (which is still great) is that it's not the hodgepodge of different eras and years that DCS can be. You can really pin down and say - OK here's what was available to the two sides in 1980, or here's what was available in 1989.
A-7Es are actually useful, a RUclipsr named Stealth17Gaming tried using it, and it took out radars with ARMs and destroyed the Soviet fleet with cluster bombs
"This mostly us two talking" before 2 hours of intensive nail biting action and then finishing it off with "As you saw it was mostly just a lot of talking but that's how it goes in this kind of videos". I watched all of it! From the first second til last! Good stuff and by gods the plane AI is even dumber than in DCS. Hopefully EA provides ample opportunity to improve that.
Very cool video. Love to see you work together. I noticed that you spendt a lot of time watching incomming missiles as they got close to the fleet. Maybe this is time that could be spendt on managing air assets instead. I get its very exciting to watch and maybe its good for us viewers but its just an observation from me.
Is ELINT modelled so that AWACS doesn’t necessarily have to turn its active sensors on in order to detect and locate enemies? I.e. two or three AWACS listening carefully with radar off stands a decent chance to find enemies stealthily by triangulating the data they obtain?
ELINT is modeled in Sea Power. Its just not as accurate as radar and if the enemy is in EMCON, you wont get anything. Anti Ship Cruise Missiles that dont emit anything until terminal homing phase are a concern as well.
@ good to know thanks looking forward to buying this game - yes understand it has its limitations and perhaps more so in the modelled era than modern systems but valuable if you want to be very sure that you don’t give yourself away and perhaps it’s you sneaking up of them (relatively) undetected rather than vice versa? As I understand it ELINT because of its technical limitations, relies more so on several data points in order to be reasonably accurate - I was just wondering about the necessity to switch on radar rather than just try to be a bit more passive to help manoeuvre to your advantage?
Practice makes perfect cap, I'd suggest you have some of the community pool together some kind of instruction check list or something. you shouldn't need to micro manage to this extent as you'll end up having an aneurysm lol
planes seem to have same issue as Fleet Command , fire and turn to loiter to see if they hit instead of prosecuting in after missile or using two or three on a big target, also may have 80s odds which is 3:1 ..
The Dallas, that's Bart Mancuso's boat.
Have I got this straight, Jonesy? A $40 million computer tells you you're chasing an earthquake, but you don't believe, and you come up with this on your own?
@@kdub40k1 Yes sir
Bart Mancuso. Not Burt.
@@structured_anarchist Noted and fixed, thanks!
Come on Big D, FLY!
You always launch the F-14As with the Air To Air Long Range loadout which only give them 1 Phoenix with 2 Sparrows and 2 Sidewinders. You should instead launch them with Intercept Long Range which give them 4 Phoenixes, 2 Sparrows and 2 Sidewinders. As you can guess this loadout is better for this kind of engagement.
Youre right but the 54's seem really badly modelling in this game...
@@mikedoria6770 in reality, if any USN pilot ever got a successful kill with a Phoenix, it would literally be the first in history. Every Phoenix fired in anger either had a failed rocket motor or missed the target. They got retired for a reason, two years before the Tomcat was retired.
@@jimfrazier8104 the problem was the missile motors aren't meant to sit around for year upon year before use! When they finally had a chance to fire them did not work surprise surprise.... applies to any ammo overtime it goes bad due to a range of factors: storage, moisture,etc
Full Phoenix loadout reduces range dramatically. Would only use it if a Bear regiment was attacking
@@Wolfe351 even in testing they were quite bad if I remember correctly
48:40 that is what weapons free/tight is.
Weapons free is basically "go hunting"
Weapons tight is "shoot the things I tell you to shoot only"
Weapons safe is "don't shoot anything"
Weapons tight is also, "defend your self from incoming missiles"
SO I have not watched the full vid yet, but based off some comments in the beginning: the A-7E is actually really useful for anti-ship. There's a stealth17 vid from this morning, showcasing that you can use A-7E's to carry ARM's to snipe defensive radars, before having your other platforms engage with harpoons, thus making your strike more effective. Plus cluster bombs do a number on anything they hit.
I didn’t know A-7E’s could even utilize anti radar missiles in the first place, much less against ships. Cool info
Yeah, but even Stealth admitted that Radar Jamming needed (and has already been) nerfed in the game.
@@Tuning3434 ...how does radar jamming affect ARM's being useful for anti-radar? As for nerfs, I hope not. People obsess over passive stealth for fighters and such, but the worst EWAR is still miles better at protecting its host than the best passive stealth. EWAR should be effective
@@TheEngineeringTactician radar jamming made it possible for him to operate very close next to a soviet carrier group, without getting shot by their missles. (they haven't launched a single interception missle)
The only reason those planes got anywhere as close as they did was because the Soviets couldn't shoot their SAMs due to jamming, which is something that doesn't happen anymore
I was in the USN submarine force in the eighties to the mid-nineties. We did not even have the Seawolf-class SSNs yet, much less the Virginia-class that followed them when the Seawolfs proved too expensive to fill the fleet with. Los Angeles-class was the hottest thing we had back then. Also, this is the second time you've run this scenario and left your main low-level attack aircraft (the A-7E) sitting in the hanger. If you send them out with HARM missiles and run them in at wavetop-height, you'll find that Harpoons and Tomahawks are a lot more effective after the enemy radars have recently had a Mach-3 "blast-fragmentation enema".
Issues/improvements:
1. Changing orders for F-14 when they are already guiding an aim 7 to target
2. Forgetting about tomcat flights and leaving them circling the carrier not helping
3. Not turning ECM on
4. Launched anti ship planes with strike load out
5. Telling RTB tomcats to fight
6. Not telling tomcats with no missiles to RTB
7. Telling planes with no fuel and no weapons to engage
8. Could have had helos up around the carrier group to spot the anti ship missiles better
9. Could have landed the attack planes that were loaded with strike and reloaded them for anti ship
10. Left 10+ planes circling the carrier doing nothing for 20 plus minutes
11. Telling tomcats to fire on a mig that already has a SM2 in the air fired at it
12. Left tomcats on weapons tight then got mad that they weren’t firing
13. Didn’t use recon planes for 20 minutes could have used them to soak missiles for the tomcats
14. Didn’t send back up the tomcats that landed and reloaded
15. Telling planes to fly away from the carrier then there about to run out of fuel
16. Not using the S3 planes with harpoons
17. Didn’t check F14 air to air intercept loadout
18. Leaving planes in holding patterns with no orders for way to long
19. Not realize the red circle is the weapon engagement range
Ya I liked the vid but this was aggravating
@@theverminator9923 I wouldn't call it aggravating. I don't think Cap is familiar with this game nor this era of systems, and he's learning. He'll make mistakes, doesn't mean the video isn't worth watching (as some other people have suggested).
@@ValoriusI don't think Cap is familiar with this game nor this era of systems, and he's learning. He'll make mistakes, doesn't mean the video isn't worth watching (as some other people have suggested).
Cap + time with the game = SuperCap!
Part of the problem is that the player is expected to be CAG, SWO and ASWO at the same time. Many of the things you listed have multiple officers dedicated to their operation in a CSG. It would be very different if, in real-time, another person could watch the battle tracker/carrier menu (independently, not just a screen-share) and say "hey, order the recon planes out" or "tomcats armed and refueled, suggest sending them on this bearing".
I think it's just too much information for one person, especially in real time. ESPECIALLY since it seems every 1v1 air engagement requires the admiral's supervision.
Despite the just *comical* imbalance in the AI control / AAM success between red and blue, this was one of the most enjoyable GR videos I've seen in a while! *Love* the format. Not knowing where the red fleet is to start with hits completely differently to the old school DCS fare. And even though it's single player, the Admiral / XO chatter is really fun to follow along with. When they get the bugs sorted out, this is going to be a super fun video format!
Yup ... all the things in this post, followed by exclamation points!! The chat be5ween you and Fly, Cap -- was awesome.
I was stationed on both Sturgeon class (637) and Los Angeles class (688) subs and both will easily make near 20 knots at all heads two-thirds at periscope depth without cavitating in the right conditions. They will do even better in cold water up north. Cavitation is the formation and subsequent collapsed of vapor bubbles due to the passage of an object through a liquid medium at a faster rate than what the water can effectively backfill in the void passage of the object. Cavitation mostly comes into play with the rate of propellor acceleration. Cavitation over time also leads to propellor damage and is relatively less efficient for the energy cost vs. speed.
Basically, if you are in shallower or warmer water (less dense) then you try to accelerate more slowly and to a lower speed (25 knots or so) to avoid cavitation. When you are in colder and deeper water (more dense) then you can accelerate more quickly to a higher speed (>35 knots) without cavitating. The sub control center (Conn) calls for a specific speed (ahead 1/3, 2/3, full, flank) and the maneuvering operators (engineroom controller) open the throttles to the steam turbines at a rate to reach that speed at the best rate without cavitating. This is all automatic with training and technology. In emergencies Conn can specific a speed (typically flank) and authorize cavitation in order to make that speed at the fastest rate in order to GTF out of there ASAP.
1:01:59 The moment someone say vampire in a ship will the most chilling moment in a battle. Now imagine being in that position without any ability to stop time like here.
All I can think is the Red Storm Rising ambush on Nimits. Vampire is such a perfect brevity code for ASMs.
Sea Power is a great game. Check Tomcat patrol armament compared with full armament, I think that is why only one phoenix missile on patrol load out, to give longer range. Also the Corsairs can, I think, carry shrike anti radar missiles and you can use those against enemy warships.
Good video. Loved the interplay between Cap and Fly. Definitely want more of both of you doing Sea Power.
The best 2 hours I'm gonna spend at work today!
I'm feeling very valued right now, thanks.
Gud vid in advance 💯💥
Just starting the video but I know this must have been a crazy amount of work, even compared to the other massive battles. thanks for all you do cap, lots of love
this game is so incredibly cool, and every video i watch by every single channel is so frustrating bc the ships and planes refuse to stay in formation or follow orders
You got tunnel vision on taking out the Migs and completely disregarded the real threat of their AWACS and Anti-ship flights.
well not easy when you gotta micromanage the fighters to follow attack orders. Maybe bug in game that needs to get sorted out?
@@cyrusjalali1571 This Sea Power playthrough is standard meat & potatoes Air Superiority. Maybe adjustment on delegating targets for fighter groups in the AI by the developers might be needed for multiple target engagements selected in a group.
Streamer should have put the F-14's on weapons free as soon as their bandits entered effective AIM-54 range so they couldn't run away from them. However, he didn't and took forever to queue up attack orders and by that time, most was short range to knifefight range air engagements.
This is basic stuff you have to be very good at or you gonna get your rear end handed to you on hard scenarios.
To be fair to him, the air combat micro in sea power is pretty brutal at the moment. You simply cannot trust your aircraft to do what they should do automatically, especially when they’re engaging things that can actually kill them.
The devs have addressed it and want to improve it, because they believe it requires _too much_ micro right now.
Great vid cap and fly really close to the wire. 👍
I love this long format. Not all the time but a nice break once in a while. I also enjoyed the CO and XO orders of sorts. Keep it up guys n gals.
Hey there Cap! I was reading an old Cold War book about naval tactics. In the book the A-7 could be used along with EA-6Bs to knock out escort vessels around the Kiev or Kirov. It could do so by flying low with shrikes or HARMs against ship radars and mavericks or walleyes against ships.
Geez I admire how you look at, and try to incorporate, feedback. The "Fly doesn't know" strategy is terrific! #FLYingBlind 🙈
Watched beginnng to end. So good A few good constructive co.ments from viewers it seems . The needlessly aggressive ones disappoint me to no end. Those who can't do, whine and criticize, it would appear. Very cool video!
Ty Cap for doing your best to make this more realistic.
Been wanting to see stuff like this for ages. Thanks for setting it up. Much appreciated.
I feel like this game has the potential to be absolutely brilliant provided they can get the aircraft AI sorted out so you don't have to babysit their every move (for all the good that seems to be doing).
This is the the electronic form of the Tabletop Harpoon strategy game. Bring it on 👍👍
There was a computer game and then after a few years Harpoon 2 came out. I played it a LOT and still would if a modern computer would run it.
Cap, Fly and GR, that was excellent. Would you kindly consider doing a another vid of the 2nd half of this battle? BLUE decides to rearm and hunt down the RED fleet, and the RED fleet attempts a fighting withdrawal to break contact fighting to preserve the carrier whilst BLUE is trying to work around the defences to sink the carrier as a priority target.
Red would use land based long range anti-ship Bears, Backfires, and Badgers. In fact they should have had a few Maratime Patrol Bears up gathering Elint.
This is the beauty of sea power. The ability to do massive simulations with intricate detail.
- I think you can get boundary layer information by hovering over the depth with the sub
- You can change the CAP loadout to take more phoenixes. You had them set to "Air-to-Air Long Range"
- If you want fighters to target someone specific, you should do that manually with weapons tight. "Weapons Free" essentially means "do whatever you want" (and target selection AI is godawful from what I've seen) Every time you set your tomcats to weapons free, they start going after 7002 (enemy AWACS that's 400nm away)
- If there are subs, you might want your sub to deploy the towed array (if it has one, I don't know about LAs)
- I think you want your ECM behind the fleet and relatively low (6k ft is good), then you can blind enemy missiles (radar guided, at least) the whole way in
- To turn on ECM, select the plane, click the "Offensive ECM" on the bottom of the screen, then click on the map where you want to aim it. I don't know if you can select a target specifically vs just a direction
- From what I've seen, the AIM-9s in this game fire at the absolute max range, which usually causes them to miss. Try getting the planes closer before you use them
- When the Tomcats are winchester and go RTB, I think they're resetting to very low altitude, so when you retask them to shoot an AIM-9, it's launching from 6k ft at a 37k ft enemy
- "And he's turned around and given up" I think it might be more helpful to think of your "attack him" command as "send one missile that way". He hasn't given up, he sent a missile - it just missed.
- :) If you want to reduce the sound, select the submarine :D
I love your videos!
All US Navy submarines in front line service in the 80's had towed array sonars so LA Flight 1 does have one
Fantastic vid.... loved the early stages, trying to hunt down bogies and searching for the fleet
As always, I love it, and I hope it is as much fun to make this content as it is to watch it!
35 minutes in and I’m still glued. If it continues this way, this may be a huge success cap!!
Just finished it up. Couple of slow spots were y’all had to fumble about with the finicky controls for the aircraft, but y’all are on a great path. Continue to work with it and y’all will be killing it! Great job GR!
@@ferrimusbueller we had bunch of fun TOO 😀😀
I listen to this while doing other work, so I love the long format stuff
Just to let you know you can use the bottom panel of your screen to give orders to the unit you have selected like where it says EMCON or where it tells you the weapons
Great video. Looks like it has a very steep learning curve. Just a suggestion Cap and Fly, you may want to break it into much smaller missions at first till you get the hang of controlling the units.
I think this is a great thing to add to the mix of what you do.
Cap you should have added some neutral ships and commercial liners around the map, again for merchants ships there are alot in the Mediterranean
why the heck you didn't use your A7s to take out the antishipers so you could prioritize your tomcats against the migs?
I love the action and the comments are cracking me up
Now we're cooking. Good to see you developing the skillz. Lots of room for improvement but I'm certain you can manage!
I see so many ways to improve/do things different! Having Fly do his thing really slowed it down to a watchable pace, greatly appreciated Fly! I cannot wait to get a copy!! Loving what I'm learning while watching you learn, keep up the great videos! I'd swap out Admirals, let's see what Simba will do, and Grump? Let's have them all put on the Admiral's cap, and Cap just clicks the things and pulls his lever...?
Hope you're feeling better Cap and good job on the demonstration with the German. A couple of things tactically I think you would want to do as blue given the range dynamics on the ASh for the Reds. 1. Put the combat group going E full to maximize the range - that way you can utilize the advantage of the F14 as your long range intercept. Bringing the Blue group closer creates absolutely no tactical advantage. 2. Put 4-5 F14 groups out early in a long range picket line as the AWACS caught up. I'd want 2 groups of F14 out at least 250/300 miles and ASAP so start on burn to get range ASAP for early intercept with the others in staged waves 50 miles back. 3. If you can get air superiority or see a good trend, I'd go with 2 A6 groups and split WNW/WSN as you know with the distances there at least one of the 2 could launch and get back and worst case use the S2 for refueling of the other group to keep the deck clear for the FY14 rotations if needed. The game looks like it has some teething issues and obviously the F14 and Phoenix gameplay was just totally off the mark with the AI but it does look like it could be a decent wargame simulator in time.
My take is that deploying the Tomcats with 1 Phoenix each cost the range war on the Migs. They outnumbered the Tomcats, so having 2 or 3 Phoenixes per Tomcat could have been more effective at taking them down (and leave some extra Phoenixes for Ko-45 and SSN-19s?)
Edit after 1:35:00:
Cap I believe you can outfit a different loadout for Tomcats with more Phoenixes, you sent them up with "Air to air long range", which I believe has fewer missiles for a lighter aircraft, but outfitting plain "Air to Air" has more Phoenixes
The AIM 54 did terrible. Not suited for "maneuverable" targets like the Mig. If you look at the majority of successful interceptions it was the Sparrow AIM 7 that did the most kills. And I don't think this game has modeled for AIM-54s to target anthship cruise missiles right?
@@cyrusjalali1571I agree, but with all the load outs having max 2 sparrows using the Air to Air Intercept with 4x Phoenix is just more ammo to fire
really would like to see more long range battles as they are very fun to watch
Cap and gang I know people criticise a lot in comments but tell them to split and just buy the game on the 13th
This is the internet after all - all great sea power vids so far keep up the good work
7:45 If they detect two of your planes they can triangulate their starting point. You could have them fly to different points north or south of you and then diverge from there.
I think its great watching you guys learn it!
It's already kinda mentioned,
On your tomcats you launched with "long range" which refers to the aircrafts range not the missile range. If you want CAP or AWACS escorts then you want to take the long range loadout for obvious reasons. But if you want to fight an air war you want to take the other loadout which carries 4 pheonixes. When you tell them to go weapons free they do just spam out pheonixes like they would in DCS.
As for why they planes were being stupid in this video, it's a mixture of where they were told to go and also just the basic AI. If you want them to get air superiority around an area I think you just have to give them a move order at where you want them to clear and then tell them to go weapons free. Ocassionally you will have to select which weapon to use and click on the targets manually. Obviously with sparrows they can only fire one at a time (they won't be able to fire pheonixes or sidewinders though while guiding a sparrow so if you think they're ignoring you it's almost always because it has a sparrow out)
As for other bits of advice, with your tomcats they tend to work best when you group them up for a time-on-attack or while being able to rotate them. basically, launch a wave of pheonixes at long range, wait for them to go active and run and then send in another wave of tomcats to replace them onto a different set of targets. Definitely keep a reserve though for the inevitable attack from Ko45s.
as for how your fleet got spotted? I actually have no idea. It's possible that their awacs could detect the carrier itself and they could fire a wave of missiles at it. if an awacs was at 40k ft it could theoretically see 400nm out but I didn't think you were 400nm away at the time.
The last thing then which I leave entirely in your hands, maybe 450nm isn't a long enough start distance? As crazy as that sounds lol. I figured 400nm would be enough but perhaps not
Fabulous work chaps...the only thing missing is my ownership of the game, which will be rectified next week when its out 😊...see you in the skies (Blade)
Well you learn something new every day. I never knew a Fox 3 Phoenix could get spoofed by flares.
You’re getting the hang of it!!!…
Time to take the training wheels off!!!
No pausing in player versus “live” engagements!!!
I’d recommend using the RA-5 in the future. It’s radar is not as good as the E-2’s but it also has an ESM sensor and a fantastic visual sensor. I’ve seen videos where it VISUALLY detects really small ships like Osa’s from ~75nmi away. Plus, it’s super sonic so if you spot aircraft coming to shoot it down it can run away much better than an E-2 can and give you much more time for fighters to come over and defend it.
haven’t watched but one issue I’ve already noticed and I didn’t see someone point out is ignoring the RA-5. They are actually an extremely potent reconnaissance and search plane. They can see far, but they also have very long range and are fast, so you can have them zoom in take a look and then zoom back out. They do also have a radar you can turn on.
Next thought is that as opposed to having the carriers heading west, I would’ve launched it immediately turned east. But as much distance between you and the enemy as you can, so you have as much time as possible to get the planes on them.
Once fired on, you should also probably be all ahead flank so the ships are as far away from where they were expected to be as possible.
As others have pointed out, the air to air intercept load out of the F14 has all the phoenixes.
I like the way Fly says "AWACS".
Ayvacks
Because I dismally failed "political correctness", I somehow hear AVACS in Anton Chekov's voice. Made me chuckle incessantly through the video. Highly recommended if your brain is warped like mine! 😅
nice mate. keep them coming. Sea Power will reinvigorate the place. lets keep you from a 9 to 5
Probably put the EW aircraft more closer to the carrier and when you see the missiles make the EW aircraft go towards them when detected and jam them this should make a bright light "kinda thing" so that they cannot track the CSG
I just sitting here yelling you never turned the awacs radar on
we did that actualy
Brilliant content Cap & Admiral General Fly. That is all. 👍
Hi. Just started the video and I have a question and suggestion. As a former submariner of the generation of this scenario, I know the Red force would send forward SSGNs to be the primary weapon against a carrier group. So the question is does this game platform have classic SSGNs like Charlie or Oscar? If yes, then add two to three in front of the red carrier group then send them out in a parallel line spaced at 30-40 miles apart. In front of that line add two Victor class and two kilo subs.
That was stressful 😂 thanks cap and GR
Biggest thing I picked up on regarding your fighters and them not engaging the enemy, or the enemy dodging your fighters missiles, was that your fighters were almost always vectored away from the enemy. then you would individually tell them to attack a target. They would then automatically return to their vector meaning they were no longer providing any guidance to the missile, or trying to engage the enemy plane.
If you want your planes to continue to engage the enemy or guide their missiles, you need to have them vectored in the right direction.
You also should be looking to get all your planes in the air at the start. you spent a long time not launching anything before the enemy missiles fighters showed up, when you could have had all your own fighters launched ready to engage.
Yes! Fire the Phoenix or Sparrow then turn slightly to maintain a lock but also keep separation.
Stuff CAP knows from DCS but he got fuddled by having so much happening.
That was epic! Enjoyable format to the video, good to at least pretend not to know what's out there. Like to see one of the other GR Create a mission / plausible scenario for you to play blind.
Feedback from a valued viewer: I'm not going to be able to consistently watch 2+ hour videos, though I did watch this one.
Also, I'd be interested to see you use the subs more since that is one of the differentiators from DCS.
Isn't the Phoenix missile better suited for a large targets rather than fighter size airframes? cheers
Awesome video, looking forward to you learning the game in and out, as well as upcoming bug fixes and improvements for the game. Game looks amazing but still needs some work!
awacs and prowlers should be odd distances from CVBG to avoid triangulation..
The A-7 Corsair can be configured for anti-ship using 2× AGM-65 Maverick air-to-ground missiles. They could follow up on the Intruder mission. (mentioned below).
I was going to get this game on release, but given the number of bugs GR has shown up, and that I have seen on other channels, I shall wait, this is not yet ready for sale. Great vids Cap
What kind of bugs did u see ?
Nice, Thanks for setting up this type of scenario. I wish this game had multi-player
Quit dismissing A-7s! Carrier groups don't waste a single resource and they are multi-role aircraft.
need to keep tabs on your ships too, they had no orders and was just sitting in place (only speeding up when the carrier moved). Also once you had a location for the enemy fleet I would have sent the CGN at flank speed on a course on that heading so they can have a crack at the Vampires before they get to the Carrier.
Probably could've used the Vigilantes for searching for the enemy ships too, they are recon planes after all. And scramble the A-7s for anti-air with sidewinders.
Hi Cap, I'm doing well thanks for asking. I hope you are too. Yes, we want long range, more realistic war games that reflect how battles would be in real life with the given tech. However, if you want to ramp up the crazy and have 20 Iowas come around the corner of an island and engage in point blank range (~20 miles) with 20 Kirovs or Slavas that would be interesting. Or a mix of 10 Iowas plus 10 Virginias against 10 Kirovs and 10 Slavas. Honestly, you kind of need to go very realistic or very over the top to make these videos stand out. Just my two cents.
Cap this is fucking cool! Keep it up. Love this content
As a potential recreation you might want to think about Barrrat Tillmans "The sixth battle" off the coast of South Africa. The scenario involves a Soviet supercarrier plus escorts with Su27 and AWACS with a Kiev class with Yak 141's. US side is a Forrestal class (F14 and F18) and a Tarawa class US carrier groups with AV8B's. If Backfires with shipwrecks and comtempary Submarines for both sides are available in Sea Power this could be possible to do....
And I would expect the russian fleet to stay under the backfire bubble anyway, adding fighter escorts for them and providing sensor data (and of course missiles of their own). A US carrier fleet far from the soviet union is not in their immediate interest. But I did like that book.
They don’t have su27/yak141 in the game
This has played out like oh so many Fleet Command battles in the days gone by.
I can't find the moment in the video, but I think I saw Walleyes in one of the load outs for the A-7. If so, you are definitely discounting the A-7's too quickly. The Walleye is a glide bomb with TV guidance. In other words, a big ass warhead with wings. If so, lead with Shrikes, followed by Harpoons, and then use the Walleyes to mop up.
Good vid. More of this please.
Yeah good vis BtW! Can you ask devs if they can look at rules for each asset. Eg: fleet defence. Prioritise Sanger to ship vs air to air - or rtb when out of long and mid range weapons - or fight till all ammo inc guns expended etc
I loved it Fly!!!! More more more!!!!
This is the new favorite game of cap
1:34:16 you can put more Phoenix, just not in that loadout
Brilliant.
The nature of naval warfare is slow and tedious planning. Followed by moments of intense terror.
Been there, done that, but only in training and a few pucker moment IRL.
The Walleyes on the A7's have a range of 16 to 54 miles dependant on variant and release altitude.
however this video goes, it's a learning experience :)
Cap absolutely fantastic video❤ and as for all the wine comments in the comment section just ignore them. This is a brand new game you're just now learning it and I mean take some suggestions but please don't let it bother you
Also fly same goes for you everybody complaining or that does complain about you can GTFO!!!
You were doing fantastic and absolutely love hearing you in these videos❤
The vikings were used as scout bombers. You could sling 2 harpoons on them and send them out to scout. If they make surface contact they can throw a harpoon out and run for home. T
I noticed that many of your micromanaged F14s were Weapons Tight for most of the engagement. Issuing Cease Fire appeared to change Weapons Free status back to Weapons Tight. Perhaps this may have prolonged their disengaging behaviour?
Cap, don't know if this has been mentioned before. @1:51:21, they were returning to station every time because they still had weapons tight command
I also can't believe how dismally the Tomcats are performing.
Awesome do more!!!
Kynda class ships had more than 8 cruise missiles: they could store and launch 24; they generally carried at least 16.
Cap - quick request. Can you provide us the rough year you're using when creating the scenario? With Sea Power covering several decades from the 1960s through the 1980s, it'll help to know if we're seeing a 1975 era contest, a 1982 contest or a 1989 contest between the two sides. Wolfpack and Stealth17 do this with their videos, defining the scenario tightly (e.g the Indian Sea, 1981 or Taiwan Strait, 1969). One of the great things about Sea Power over DCS (which is still great) is that it's not the hodgepodge of different eras and years that DCS can be. You can really pin down and say - OK here's what was available to the two sides in 1980, or here's what was available in 1989.
Trying to go for mid 1980's.
@@grimreapers Cool thanks!
A-7Es are actually useful, a RUclipsr named Stealth17Gaming tried using it, and it took out radars with ARMs and destroyed the Soviet fleet with cluster bombs
"This mostly us two talking" before 2 hours of intensive nail biting action and then finishing it off with "As you saw it was mostly just a lot of talking but that's how it goes in this kind of videos".
I watched all of it! From the first second til last! Good stuff and by gods the plane AI is even dumber than in DCS. Hopefully EA provides ample opportunity to improve that.
Very cool video. Love to see you work together. I noticed that you spendt a lot of time watching incomming missiles as they got close to the fleet. Maybe this is time that could be spendt on managing air assets instead. I get its very exciting to watch and maybe its good for us viewers but its just an observation from me.
I loved this video! Shame you can’t save the file, I’d love to see the end of the battle
Is ELINT modelled so that AWACS doesn’t necessarily have to turn its active sensors on in order to detect and locate enemies? I.e. two or three AWACS listening carefully with radar off stands a decent chance to find enemies stealthily by triangulating the data they obtain?
ELINT is modeled in Sea Power. Its just not as accurate as radar and if the enemy is in EMCON, you wont get anything. Anti Ship Cruise Missiles that dont emit anything until terminal homing phase are a concern as well.
@ good to know thanks looking forward to buying this game - yes understand it has its limitations and perhaps more so in the modelled era than modern systems but valuable if you want to be very sure that you don’t give yourself away and perhaps it’s you sneaking up of them (relatively) undetected rather than vice versa? As I understand it ELINT because of its technical limitations, relies more so on several data points in order to be reasonably accurate - I was just wondering about the necessity to switch on radar rather than just try to be a bit more passive to help manoeuvre to your advantage?
You should really utilize the A-5 earlier, they are a great addition to the E-2
Great video
Practice makes perfect cap, I'd suggest you have some of the community pool together some kind of instruction check list or something. you shouldn't need to micro manage to this extent as you'll end up having an aneurysm lol
planes seem to have same issue as Fleet Command , fire and turn to loiter to see if they hit instead of prosecuting in after missile or using two or three on a big target, also may have 80s odds which is 3:1 ..