Doug Harris is in conversation with John 'JT' Tancock about Celtic Christianity. This program was first broadcast on Simply the Truth, Revelation TV, Tuesday 3 July 2012
Excellent interview. I'm studying Celtic christianity and appreciate JT's balanced approach. The i terviewer's style was very down to earth. I will watch more from him.
I think that in Britain at least, Celtic Christianity must have absorbed and carried forth certain aspects and attitudes of the Druids. It is important to remember than the Catholic church was not the earliest church, and not the original influence on Christianity, and even while it was gaining a foothold in Britain, there were already Christians there since before the consolidation of the Catholic church in Rome. So the forms of Christianity that developed in Britain probably had been influenced by the Christianity of the desert fathers, Byzantine christianity, and others. Only later did the Catholic church, by this time, dogmatic, officious and increasingly political, become firmly established in Britain. But in the outer regions of Britain, at the edges where old traditions were still cherished, Roman Catholicism was never truly Roman, never wholly the Catholicism of Europe. And thank goodness for it.
There was no such thing as "celtic christianity", the CULDEES were not christians, they were Celtic Nazarene Israelites. The APOSTLES were not christians, they were Hebrew Nazarene Israelites. Christianity is a greco-roman invention, the Culdee Way is an hebreo-celtic invention, it is a completely different thing. The Culdees were Israelites but not jews, they were nazarenes but not christians, and they were druids but not pagans. They did not believe in the doctrine of the trinity or the incarnation, they believed that the Messiah was a man, and they were his disciples, which is what the apostles believed. They did not observe christmas or sundays or any other christian days, they observed the sabbath and the biblical calendar, which is what the apostles did. They did not believe in going to "heaven" when they died, they believed in reincarnation, which is what both the apostles and the druids believed. And they also believed that the messiah will come again at the end of the age to establish the kingdom of the heavens on the earth, which is what the bible teaches. The trinity, christmas & sunday observance, and going to heaven when you die were all invented by the r.c. church, and they are all derived from greco-roman paganism
You'll have to come up with evidence for all those claims. The evidence so far suggests that there was no theological differences between Celtic Christians and those of the Roman church. There were some local practices they did such as going into "exile for Christ" but otherwise they were in full theological and practical compliance with Rome. The whole idea of a "Celtic Church" as opposed to the Roman Church is a modern invention fueled by Celtomania. It came out of the same places and time period as Wicca, Neo-Paganism, new age, etc. Do your research.
@@daragildea7434 the apostles were nazarenes but they were TRINITARIAN, it's in fact in the book of John where there more proof of the divinity of Jesus
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Thank you, Doug and JT. I had not heard of this channel before, or of either of you (!), but I loved this. It was very helpful and very encouraging. And I loved that song.
Doug was my favourite Rev' TV presenter back in the day. I also found him to have been the best and most capable moderator when various debates were being conducted.
Bishop Fulton Sheen once said, " If a religion proffeses Truth, then it proffesses God, because God is Truth." There is no lie in nature, and Celtic Orthodoxy (Celtic Rite, Celtic Christianity, etc.) exemplifies that.
Thanks John, very informative. Good to see a son of Swansea on the RUclips. As you say Celtic Christianity has a lot to teach us today and a return to its emphases and values is a return to the Christian Faith in all its fulness, Many thanks
THE SABBATH IN THE CELTIC CHURCHES "It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times*, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labor, and Sunday, commemorative of the Lord’s resurrection, as one of rejoicing, with exercises of public worship. In that case they obeyed the Fourth Commandment literally upon the Seventh Day of the week - the day on which the Lord lay in the grave - and did not understand the precept about resting from labor to apply to the day of rejoicing over His resurrection. On the latter, people did not feel under obligation to refrain from any of their ordinary occupations consistent with their attending upon public worship." * From about 200 A.D. (perhaps earlier) until the reign of Queen “Saint” Margaret of Scotland c. 1045 - 16 November 1093. ~ pg 140, The Church in Scotland. By the Rev. James C. Moffat, D.D. Professor of Church History, Princeton Theological Seminary.
Glory to Jesus Christ! Just FYI - The Christians if that era then and now didn’t worship saints or relics. They venerated (is showed honor) to these people because of Who they were so deeply, mystically united to, that is, Jesus Christ. The veneration of saints and relics goes back to the roots of the Christian faith. It’s not a later invention.
The presenter brings up the "soul friend," but fails to mention the crucial aspect that it is the very root of the practice of confession in the Roman Catholic Church. Furthermore, Celtic Christianity was a system based on Monasteries with Abbots and Abbesses rather than a system based on Dioceses like the rest of the Roman Catholic world. They were Catholic without being Roman-based. Celtic monks had different tonsured (they shaved off all their hair from the ears forward rather than the halo-esque tonsures of the Roman Church. The other key difference between the two types of Christianity was centered on the dates used for the celebration of Easter, since the Celtic Church used a different calendar method to determine its date. In the Synod of Whitby that was mentioned, these questions were all brought up and the King of North Umbria had to choose which system to follow. In the end, the Roman system was adopted using the justification that the rest of Christendom used the Roman system, so they should too. The Irish monks refused to make the changes and returned to Ireland, while those in England adopted the Roman practices. Finally, the Celtic people used the number three in many aspects of life, including their artwork and designs as well as their poetry in three line couplets and revered many female deities, and readily accepted the triune aspect of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as well as central female saints and Mary as the Mother of God.
The question I want to know, were the early Christian Celts Trinitarian? Is the Trinity and Sunday worship a Roman concept from the Nicene Creed in the 4th century?
Read Kegan Chandler's book The God of Jesus in the light of Christian dogma. This book will convince you that Trinitarianism was never part of the earliest church - it was a mix of non-Hebrew/non-Christian sources. The Celtic Chuch were strongly sabbitarian (Saturday) worshippers.
They most definately were trinitarian. in common with all the mainstream Church from the first century they were trinitarian and used Sunday to celebrate.
Celtic Christianity is traditionally, historically, Greek-Roman Orthodox, not western, not papal, but there was a forced change towards the end of the 10th century onward. A reliable repository of information about this subject is here: www.oodegr.com/english/brit_celt_orthodoxy/brit_celt_orthodoxy.htm
British Museum's current exhibition challenges all that this man says about the history of the 'Celts'. It was no more than a culture which spread across several races and ended up being roughly defined geographically.
Lizzie Locked In the recent DNA test of all the U.K., Cornwall was found to be the most genetically "pure" in hat they had the least intermarriage with other parts of the British Isles. To the Common Celtic speaking countries are two areas of Spain that also see themselves as Celts (for example they also play a version of bagpipes, etc.) Although the Celts may not be a separate race, they definitely had a unique culture, albeit one that was influenced by outsiders.
Look i know its not nice... But its the truth... If you want to actually do something about it... That's up to you... I've done all I can by informing you of the situation...
i spread the celtic christian massage this guy is grand for sumthing on a reilgious channel. im atheist but it has no effect on my thinking that a naturalistic christianity cuts to the very heart of humanity. bobby sands martin luther king david kato etc...... i can scientificly prove the power of jesus weather or not its super natural its amazing. iosa gu bragh
Watch Barry Cuniff , archeologist explain celts. There's a pile of things here, that confuses people , I'll just address Ireland , we were not invaded by the celts, we all speak a language I'd say is Celt but that's just like speaking English , it doesn't make us English . There's a farmer republic that spread along the Atlantic seaboard that speak the same language and its 8,000 years older than the celts , we are part of that and so is much of Britain , the populations have been there for 3000 bc, the worst thing Ireland did was copy some art styles , that's it. Please stop going on with this Celt myth, it's a 18th fabrication from Brittany
I don't think you fully appreciate the gravity of the situation... Its all like that... History... Science... Religion... Everything.... If your a good decent person... Your probably not going to like it at all... I fucking hate it... But can't do anything about it...
Michael Tinney theologically Celtic Christianity was much closer to Coptic Christianity than it ever was to Roman Catholicism, it was only after the Norman invasion the Irish officially became catholic as one of the reasons for the invasion was to unite the Irish church with the apostolic church of Rome.
Brilliant this has helped me so much. Thank you JT for explaining in an easy simple manner that even I could understand.
Excellent interview. I'm studying Celtic christianity and appreciate JT's balanced approach. The i terviewer's style was very down to earth. I will watch more from him.
thanks Ike sorry I am late picking this up. Do have a wander around my blog jtsblogspot.blogspot.com/
I think that in Britain at least, Celtic Christianity must have absorbed and carried forth certain aspects and attitudes of the Druids. It is important to remember than the Catholic church was not the earliest church, and not the original influence on Christianity, and even while it was gaining a foothold in Britain, there were already Christians there since before the consolidation of the Catholic church in Rome. So the forms of Christianity that developed in Britain probably had been influenced by the Christianity of the desert fathers, Byzantine christianity, and others. Only later did the Catholic church, by this time, dogmatic, officious and increasingly political, become firmly established in Britain. But in the outer regions of Britain, at the edges where old traditions were still cherished, Roman Catholicism was never truly Roman, never wholly the Catholicism of Europe. And thank goodness for it.
There was no such thing as "celtic christianity", the CULDEES were not christians, they were Celtic Nazarene Israelites.
The APOSTLES were not christians, they were Hebrew Nazarene Israelites.
Christianity is a greco-roman invention, the Culdee Way is an hebreo-celtic invention, it is a completely different thing.
The Culdees were Israelites but not jews, they were nazarenes but not christians, and they were druids but not pagans.
They did not believe in the doctrine of the trinity or the incarnation, they believed that the Messiah was a man, and they were his disciples, which is what the apostles believed.
They did not observe christmas or sundays or any other christian days, they observed the sabbath and the biblical calendar, which is what the apostles did.
They did not believe in going to "heaven" when they died, they believed in reincarnation, which is what both the apostles and the druids believed.
And they also believed that the messiah will come again at the end of the age to establish the kingdom of the heavens on the earth, which is what the bible teaches.
The trinity, christmas & sunday observance, and going to heaven when you die were all invented by the r.c. church, and they are all derived from greco-roman paganism
@@daragildea7434 how do you know all this to be true. Will you me someday? PLEASE!!!
You'll have to come up with evidence for all those claims. The evidence so far suggests that there was no theological differences between Celtic Christians and those of the Roman church. There were some local practices they did such as going into "exile for Christ" but otherwise they were in full theological and practical compliance with Rome. The whole idea of a "Celtic Church" as opposed to the Roman Church is a modern invention fueled by Celtomania. It came out of the same places and time period as Wicca, Neo-Paganism, new age, etc. Do your research.
@@daragildea7434 the apostles were nazarenes but they were TRINITARIAN, it's in fact in the book of John where there more proof of the divinity of Jesus
@@pineapplepeanuts nice copy and paste
The Celtic Church"s contribution to the early history of Northumbria is considerable and well worth reading about.
Just like biblical and historical evidence proves that jesus and his apostles were vegatarians biblical and historical evidence also proves that the trinity, atonement, original sin and hell are very late misinterpretations and are not supported by the early creed hence its not a part of Christianity I pray that Allah swt revives Christianity both inside and out preserves and protects it and makes its massage be witnessed by all people but at the right moment, place and time
The secred text of the Bible says ye shall know them by their fruits
So too that I say to my christian brothers and sisters be fruitful and multiply
Best regards from a Muslim ( line of ismail )
Thank you, Doug and JT. I had not heard of this channel before, or of either of you (!), but I loved this. It was very helpful and very encouraging. And I loved that song.
Doug was my favourite Rev' TV presenter back in the day. I also found him to have been the best and most capable moderator when various debates were being conducted.
TheHumbuckerboy n
Absolutely brilliant thank you 🙏
Bishop Fulton Sheen once said, " If a religion proffeses Truth, then it proffesses God, because God is Truth." There is no lie in nature, and Celtic Orthodoxy (Celtic Rite, Celtic Christianity, etc.) exemplifies that.
Thanks John, very informative. Good to see a son of Swansea on the RUclips. As you say Celtic Christianity has a lot to teach us today and a return to its emphases and values is a return to the Christian Faith in all its fulness, Many thanks
THE SABBATH IN THE CELTIC CHURCHES
"It seems to have been customary in the Celtic churches of early times*, in Ireland as well as Scotland, to keep Saturday, the Jewish Sabbath, as a day of rest from labor, and Sunday, commemorative of the Lord’s resurrection, as one of rejoicing, with exercises of public worship. In that case they obeyed the Fourth Commandment literally upon the Seventh Day of the week - the day on which the Lord lay in the grave - and did not understand the precept about resting from labor to apply to the day of rejoicing over His resurrection. On the latter, people did not feel under obligation to refrain from any of their ordinary occupations consistent with their attending upon public worship."
* From about 200 A.D. (perhaps earlier) until the reign of Queen “Saint” Margaret of Scotland c. 1045 - 16 November 1093.
~ pg 140, The Church in Scotland. By the Rev. James C. Moffat, D.D. Professor of Church History, Princeton Theological Seminary.
Thank y'all..
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Just FYI - The Christians if that era then and now didn’t worship saints or relics. They venerated (is showed honor) to these people because of Who they were so deeply, mystically united to, that is, Jesus Christ. The veneration of saints and relics goes back to the roots of the Christian faith. It’s not a later invention.
Good exploration of the topic!
The presenter brings up the "soul friend," but fails to mention the crucial aspect that it is the very root of the practice of confession in the Roman Catholic Church. Furthermore, Celtic Christianity was a system based on Monasteries with Abbots and Abbesses rather than a system based on Dioceses like the rest of the Roman Catholic world. They were Catholic without being Roman-based. Celtic monks had different tonsured (they shaved off all their hair from the ears forward rather than the halo-esque tonsures of the Roman Church. The other key difference between the two types of Christianity was centered on the dates used for the celebration of Easter, since the Celtic Church used a different calendar method to determine its date. In the Synod of Whitby that was mentioned, these questions were all brought up and the King of North Umbria had to choose which system to follow. In the end, the Roman system was adopted using the justification that the rest of Christendom used the Roman system, so they should too. The Irish monks refused to make the changes and returned to Ireland, while those in England adopted the Roman practices. Finally, the Celtic people used the number three in many aspects of life, including their artwork and designs as well as their poetry in three line couplets and revered many female deities, and readily accepted the triune aspect of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit as well as central female saints and Mary as the Mother of God.
The ancient British contained 2 groups of people. 1 the Albyne or Albina people and 2 the Cymric. Both considered themselves as British.
interesting and really refreshing, given all the angry evangelical Christianity today. A wonderful antidote
Long live the Culdees
Celtic Christians were not under the yoke of Rome and were the original believers in the Bible alone. Sad that Rome eventually took over.
The question I want to know, were the early Christian Celts Trinitarian?
Is the Trinity and Sunday worship a Roman concept from the Nicene Creed in the 4th century?
No. Sunday worship began in the first century and the concept of Trinity goes back to the Apostolic Fathers before Nicea.
Read Kegan Chandler's book The God of Jesus in the light of Christian dogma. This book will convince you that Trinitarianism was never part of the earliest church - it was a mix of non-Hebrew/non-Christian sources. The Celtic Chuch were strongly sabbitarian (Saturday) worshippers.
@@rutherglenroad8109 😂😂😂😂😂😂🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
@@Tsalagi978 Please, read "A Patristic Treasury." It has all of the answers.
They most definately were trinitarian. in common with all the mainstream Church from the first century they were trinitarian and used Sunday to celebrate.
but yes, he can present a balanced argument
So Paganism from the dark ages is now being called Christianity? And now the Celts were a race??? What creative interpretation!
Your dark ahhges are your dark ages. Cristianity and Celtic Christianity were not the same as Paganism. Some races were Celts.
Yes some races are Celtic...what did you think it was a basketball team
Celtic Christianity is traditionally, historically, Greek-Roman Orthodox, not western, not papal, but there was a forced change towards the end of the 10th century onward. A reliable repository of information about this subject is here: www.oodegr.com/english/brit_celt_orthodoxy/brit_celt_orthodoxy.htm
Does anyone have these notes?
There was a Great Celtic Empire all over Europe. Cimmerian Celts were in the Middle East, Tocharians have also been called Celts.
There is some really offensive and juvenile language being used by some people in these comments . Pretty immature if u ask me.
I have removed the worst that I can find JT.
That must seem very spooky, getting a message from Doug. It's Mike.
It was a bit spooky for me to read the comment seeing as I am aware that Doug himself died several years ago !
British Museum's current exhibition challenges all that this man says about the history of the 'Celts'. It was no more than a culture which spread across several races and ended up being roughly defined geographically.
Lizzie Locked In the recent DNA test of all the U.K., Cornwall was found to be the most genetically "pure" in hat they had the least intermarriage with other parts of the British Isles. To the Common Celtic speaking countries are two areas of Spain that also see themselves as Celts (for example they also play a version of bagpipes, etc.) Although the Celts may not be a separate race, they definitely had a unique culture, albeit one that was influenced by outsiders.
Highly informative, but Doug seems a bit too flippant.
Celtic
(HEBER, IBER, IVERI, HIBER) Christianity is the real Christianity
Look i know its not nice... But its the truth... If you want to actually do something about it... That's up to you... I've done all I can by informing you of the situation...
People in the comments are nonsensical.
News at six one
What's that about?
News at
Satewn 1/6=???
Today's Celts don't argue.. We debate.. Sometimes we do get a bit loud and forceful..
.....
The holiest of holies is a man...
Loose suffer is the straight one
365 days in a year
6-5=1 difference of one
1+3=4 difference of one
4*5 difference of one
Divided by three steps
666
A brah him is in the j cub
Do you know the story of
Know ahs are k?
i spread the celtic christian massage this guy is grand for sumthing on a reilgious channel. im atheist but it has no effect on my thinking that a naturalistic christianity cuts to the very heart of humanity. bobby sands martin luther king david kato etc...... i can scientificly prove the power of jesus weather or not its super natural its amazing. iosa gu bragh
Bobby Sands is rotton!!!
Brightest star in the universe is C... Anis.. Majoris... Dog...
what's with the interviewer laughing at the welsh language?? and rolling his eyes that he may have celtic blood? racist!
+TheRaokenx I am proud of having Celtic blood in me, its the Anglo Saxon blood I'm not proud of having... but we can't choose who we are.
Celtics were wild and crazy. Maybe he likes more order in life.
Watch Barry Cuniff , archeologist explain celts. There's a pile of things here, that confuses people , I'll just address Ireland , we were not invaded by the celts, we all speak a language I'd say is Celt but that's just like speaking English , it doesn't make us English . There's a farmer republic that spread along the Atlantic seaboard that speak the same language and its 8,000 years older than the celts , we are part of that and so is much of Britain , the populations have been there for 3000 bc, the worst thing Ireland did was copy some art styles , that's it. Please stop going on with this Celt myth, it's a 18th fabrication from Brittany
I don't think you fully appreciate the gravity of the situation... Its all like that... History... Science... Religion... Everything.... If your a good decent person... Your probably not going to like it at all... I fucking hate it... But can't do anything about it...
Walt disney
Deny what?
Woody and buzz and molly and toys that come alive when the parents aren't home
60 seconds one unit type
60 minutes one unit ype
24 hours one unit type
2+4
Three steps...
One and three...
666
Whitby is more than fish and chips....
also you need to learn about history
Look at this..
R'n'a genetic sequencing...
Ghey ain't he thick see quence... R'n'a...
Quence... R'n'a..
Querce...
Revelations on the "John"
When shall they ass end to havin???
Reverse
Not i at all ever nevaeh
DNA the genetic sequence
Deny...
The Lord of laois is a bad guy for being honest
The poop is the voice of gay odd
Gay men brother...
Gay men!!!
Face psalm
Face psalm
Me likey
Me likey
Easy kill..
Cock Nee (Cymru)
Six one
S.. I.. X(roman numeral 10)
One
I s10 won
I s 10 (binary 2) won
I s two won
I stwon...
The bible is written on paper by God...
The holey sheets of dog...
Jesus is the light...
The light is a rainbow flag
Straight one is De evil
Sin... Is a crime against god...
Six inches...
And the seven prince's of hell...
Paganism, pure and simple. Just look at the Iona community website and you will get more than a trifle ecumenical vibe!
The Iona Community is not the Celtic Christianity of antiquity by any stretch of the imagination.
you need to be cultic to know
St Patrick was trained in France the celtic church was always part of the Catholic Church please stop lying it's a sin
Michael Tinney theologically Celtic Christianity was much closer to Coptic Christianity than it ever was to Roman Catholicism, it was only after the Norman invasion the Irish officially became catholic as one of the reasons for the invasion was to unite the Irish church with the apostolic church of Rome.
based on the dating of easter alone that's what you say with conviction, Biff? I think it was neither
Wrong
Papists are always pure raging whenever the truth shows that Jesus did not start the Catholic church.