Steve Forrest (Parmalee) played a similar character in the previous season, aka the "dream" season, named Ben Stivers. It was originally scripted that he WAS Jock. His revelation would've been part of the cliffhanger that year. When Patrick Duffey agreed to come back, the story line was shelved until the next season. With Bobby back it was unnecessary to bring back Jock, and all of the original cast members weren't sold on the idea anyway, as they were all of the opinion that no one could replace Jim Davis.
That's not true. If you have the DVD there is an interview in the special features section where it's explained that was never something they intended to do and that it would have been an insult to Jim Davis to do that. They always kept a portrait of Jim Davis on the wall, reminding the audience who was the real Jock Ewing.
@@KennyKendall2001 really? The point was to string us along? I think it would have been great. Bobby stayed dead, Jock returns, clayton dies of a heart attack and Jock swoops in. I think this was one of the 4 bad mistakes that killed the series. 2. Bobby's return. Never never ever should have been so final. One simple scene would have made it ambiguous. 3. Pamela leaving. They had the perfect opportunity and actress, Margret Michaels, to take over as Pam. She was a different character anyway and would have kept Bobby interesting for at least two more seasons. 4. JR losing. Why was the vampire defanged? After losing Ewing oil he should have went into politics and ran against Cliff.
@@CaptainSpalding72 I think bringing back Patrick Duffy was mistake too. Having Bobby not be dead and saying the whole previous season had ben Pam's dream made it hard to take anything else that happened from then onwards seriously. Victoria Principal wanted to leave so that wasn't something they had control over. I liked April a lot. She was the only new character in the later seasons I did like. James was a big mistake. The actor who played James couldn't act! I didn't like Michelle either. They weren't good for the show. The writers weakened JR a lot in the later seasons. I don't know why they didn't fix that mistake when they saw it wasn't working. The show didn't work with JR as a loser.
stevebbuk it wasn’t a bad storyline per se, but it was poorly executed. We never got answers.. how did he have the exact injuries as Jock? How’d he pass the polygraph?
The real tragedy is that originally he was intended to really be Jock, but because of a fan backlash they chickened out on keeping Steve Forrest on as Jock and wrote the character out asap, that's why he just disappears so abruptly.
Not true. The producer of the show, David Paulsen, said they had no intention of making Wes Parmalee Jock. By the time the first episode where Wes claimed to be Jock was airing, they were already filming the story’s resolution where they revealed Wes wasn’t Jock.
Oh, that's where I remember him from. I was wracking my brain, trying to figure out where I had seen him. That family was cra cra, but who could forget about Martha Corinne. My God, that actress could tug on the heartstrings when she wanted to. I loved the scene where the family is moving off the mountain and Martha Corinne tells the story of when she and her husband moved into the house. Her eyes had that far away look that one gets when relaying past events. She moved slowly, sweeping up the last bit of their lives there. I didn't want that scene to end. I cried when she died, in the painted pony episode. What a talent Beulah Bondi was, as well as Morgan Woodward.
@@johnothy , it is well known that they intended to bring Jock back, despite all the protestation that it was not so, which is why the storyline so abruptly ended with unanswered and unresolved questions and plot holes. Given the lame ass confession was offscreen and Miss Ellie's rather wistful reaction made it a bit ambiguous if Wes was indeed a con man or actually Jock himself and the two agree it was better that they parted ways.
@@PungiFungi He was meant to really be Jock but a fan backlash not receptive to the recast of Steve Forrest taking over the role made Lorimar reverse their decision & they wrote him off the show asap. That's why Wes just disappears so abruptly.
what the hell did Clayton expect for Miss Ellie to just forget what happen not having old emotions and feeling stired up again do to Parmalee. It took her long time to accept Jock was dead and then Parmalee comes in with renewed hope Jock is still alive......that is not something you can just forget.
I really thought this show jumped the shark when they ended this storyline so abruptly. They had set it up perfectly that he was Jock and when they come out with this ridiculous story that it wasn't him it was just so hokey.
Parmalee never had Jock's toughness he never even really acted like Jock and would never let JR and Bobby talk to him like that no matter how old or disfigured he was. They should have had him drive a Lincoln Continental Mark too to make it even more believable..
@@willisapril JR never talked to Jock like that. Bobby did many times and got away with it. Jock respected and almost even encouraged Bobby's defiance.
The producers got rid of the character due to very unfavorable viewer approval of it. They decided to go this route and eliminate the idea of Jock Ewing still being alive. The damage was already done though, and the show never fully recovered from this idiotic storyline.
I have never seen a single episode of Dallas, but I found myself binging on these short clips and I wonder if Miss Ellie was ever happy. She seems to be crying in almost every clip. I remember back in the day, people asking me why I never watched it, but it held no interest for me. It seemed too much like a man's show. Dynasty was my guilty pleasure, mainly because of Alexis. It was so nice to see a woman in a dominant role and to be just as conniving and ruthless as any man. That and let's face it, the clothes were everything. Not too many of my close friends watch Dallas, it was more my co-workers that watched. My friends and I were hard core Dynasty fans and it is so nice to be able to watch clips here on you tube, even if the clips are just a few minutes long. It brings back some very good memories. Although I did give up on it a few seasons before it was cancelled, so some of the clips here are new to me. I think if I had given Dallas a try, I might have liked it, especially since the writing was so good and Bobby was sooooo hot.
I am a hardcore dynasty fan too but dallas is the nightime soap that started it all- amazon prime has all 13 seasons available- you should watch dallas the first 8 seasons are the best- after that it goes downhill but even at its worst it beats what is on tv now - both dallas and dynasty were pop culture phenomenons and part of tv history i grew up watching both
Watching these scenes..........its as if it was "aired" yesterday....as if times hasn,t passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i,ve probably said it about this programme a millon times......................Great Show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone needs to remind Bobby that Wes Parmalee had blood tests that matched up with Jock, had x-rays that matched up with Jock, and passed a lie detector test confirming he was Jock! ... Wyatt would NOT have been able to do those things! ... The only reason Parmalee left is because he saw what pain it was causing the Ewing family - another move confirming he was Jock.
I tell you this.....it must have been some type of SL if all these years later people still debate if Wes was Jock (which personally I think he was. The x-rays proved it for me).
I read in a book about the show that Steve Forest had to wrap up on Dallas and leave to film a Gunsmoke reunion movie he had committed to. He stated that Leonard Katzman wanted him to stay longer, but he couldn’t at that time. Steve had thought they wanted him to permanently join the cast, but were seeing how the audience reacted.
It's certainly stood the test of time. I love the show's theme tune. The Dallas theme is one of the most iconic themes of all time, just like the Star Trek & Doctor Who theme tunes.
Classic example of a jumping the shark moment. The Wes Parmalee character first appeared towards the end of the "dream season" but writers were so lazy they assumed nobody would remember.
Wes was Jock. Miss Ellie's scene with Clayton said it all. He was alive but for the good of the family, he had to stay dead. Miss Ellie felt like she lost him all over again.
100% false because they asked, the producer of Dallas did they have any intention of reprising jocks character through Steve portraying Wes. And he said absolutely not.
@@Via_The_Void there are producers out there that admit when they try things and fail or when they change their minds on something. If that's the case they got no reason to deny something like that. Especially when you're talking about an old show that really has no relevance for today.
It would have been a great twist if the revival series had them discover Parmalee had died and out of curiosity Bobby runs a DNA test and discovers he was really Jock.
Exactly. ... Someone needs to remind Bobby that Wes Parmalee had blood tests that matched up with Jock, had x-rays that matched up with Jock, and passed a lie detector test confirming he was Jock! ... Wyatt would NOT have been able to do those things!
Michael Zoran Came back to this video recently one other thing to add. Bobby talking to Christopher and John Ross "I spoke to the hospital where Amanda was kept. They said after leaving us Parmalee visited her and continued to visit everyday until the day she died."
Another thing punk said that Jock had a fever and he was "ranting and Raven" for days about his life. Now how is someone suppose take a sick man who "was ranting raven words seriously? And remember everything thing he said anyway? Parmelee was suppose to be as old as Jock you mean to tell me someone of that age going remember in detail what was said 5 years earlier? Jock had a long life I am sure he didn't say everything. Parmelee was Jock I think miss Ellie knew it.
Tim Riggins,......... That is interesting what you mentioned. one thing bothers me..... Remember the first time Jock went to see Amanda with Miss Ellie, Amanda didn't reconize him and thought Bobby was a Young Jock. when Bobby returned the second time to get papers to save Ewing Oil from Cliff and Jamie....Amanda thought he was Jock........ if Parmalee was pretending to be Jock. I don't think Amanda even with her memory issues would have accepted him as Jock. She remembers Jock as young when both of them got married. not as a old man.
I never believed Wes was Jock. My guess was that Wes was the pilot of Jock's helicopter who had truly had reconstructive surgery and sincerely believed that he was Jock, which is how he passed the lie detector test. The eventual explanation was similar to this but Wes had apparently figured out he was not Jock before he even came to Dallas. I was also hoping the character would return at some point but instead, he just vanished.
Someone needs to remind Bobby that Wes Parmalee had blood tests that matched up with Jock, had x-rays that matched up with Jock, and passed a lie detector test confirming he was Jock! ... Wyatt would NOT have been able to do those things! ... The only reason Parmalee left is because he saw what pain it was causing the Ewing family - another move confirming he was Jock.
Michael Zoran People can pass a lie detector test so that's not too surprising. He could have had the same blood type as Jock. Could mark it off as coincidence. I don't see how he could have had matching wounds as Jock though. That signifies to me that he was Jock (or at least, that was the writers intentions) and they ended up getting cold feet when it wasn't going over well with the viewers or cast and so they abruptly ended the storyline without tying up all the loose ends.
He just vanished because there was a fan backlash not receptive to the storyline. It leaked whilst the show was being filmed that Steve Forrest would be playing the new Jock Ewing. Quite a few American fans bombarded CBS & Lorimar with complaints not to bring Jock Ewing back with another actor. They felt it was disrespectful to Jim Davis who had originated the role. So reluctantly Lorimar wrote Steve Forrest out of the show. The original intention was for Wes Parmalee to really be Jock Ewing.
@@Via_The_Void Miss Ellie was certainly holding back something. Instead of being angry at being manipulated, she seemed sad. Assuming Wes did confessed to Ellie that he was a con, Ellie sensed that Wes didn't meant it. She knew deep down that Wes was Jock. Very telling the rest of the family only focused on evidence that could be questioned in affirming their belief in Wes being a con, instead of the evidence that they could not refute, like the x-rays.
It's a shame they couldn't settle this earlier on. Didn't they have a Maury Show back then? ..in all seriousness I liked this storyline and I think they ended it the best possible way. I liked how they didn't show Wes' conversation with Ellie because it left us hanging with the possibility that this guy really was Jock. I think it would've been hard for most viewers to accept a new Jock and with Bobby having just been "resurrected " two Ewings returning from the dead would've been too much. I mean it's Dallas not Highlander.
they do it all the time. It would have been an easy recast and people wanted Jock back and Forrest would have owned it and those later years would have been something instead of Hagman getting drunk and JR shit on.
I guess we respectfully disagree on that one. Obviously JD wasn't up there with Kevin Spacey as far as his acting but he didn't need to be. Most of Jock Ewing's character was just a look and a presence. Davis left such an impact with both that the character is held on the platform even today. SF was a great actor but I don't think he would've brought those elements home the way Jim did but hell we'll never know.
Thank God they did. I love Dallas. My all time favorite show, but as much as I love it that probably would have been the one thing to make me want to stop watching, especially coming on the heels of the ridiculous dream season.
part of the irony of this scene is that woodward was originally the choice for jock. he refused when he found out his friend jim davis was also up for the role to give him a chance to start on a show. If this story is true makes u wonder what would have happened if the roles had been reversed. Morgan was still alive when show went off air.
@@CaptainSpalding72 i don't know how much i buy the "friendship" aspect of the story. from waht i've heard and read noone disputes the actors were friends. on and off screen. i guess what i doubt is why anybody in that business puts friendship over money. obviously punk's actor would have made much more money overall even if not per episode as a regular than as a recurring character. jim davis was a fine actor and it's a shame he built most of his career as a character actor, but one big what if of this show had they gone with the other actor.
This explanation never made any sense. They had hired the best investigators that money could buy to go to South America, and none of them came up with this. But, somehow, Bobby did after Parmalee had already decided to leave? I will forever believe that they fully intended to have this man be Jock. They first brought in Forrest during the previous season and started to hint at something then, only to have to scrap the story when Duffy returned, making the season a dream. They brought him back under a different name, but it was clear that the story was the same. I think the fact that they had already lost about 10% of their audience by resurrecting Bobby prompted them to change their mind about doing it again with Jock. Ultimately, it was a poor resolution to an otherwise good storyline. I prefer to think that he actually was Jock, and did what he had to do to make things better for his family. And, Miss Ellie knew it.
In the original script he was going to be Jock, but the audience did not like it, Miss Ellie getting re-married to Clayton, and Steve Forrest being 16 years younger than Jim Davis had a lot to do with it too.
Back then tv shows ran around 25 episodes each year and they would film 6 and start the season and keep shooting while that season was in progress, so when people complained about Wes becoming Jock, they were able to call an audible and change the storyline...The Dallas loyalists loved Jim Davis and were not having it so they canned it...if that were today the storyline would have remained with Wes becoming Jock...so its hard for me totally believe Wes isn't Jock as the explanation was weak as hell
I've always believed Parmalee really was Jock and just left because of the pain it was causing his family. There's no way someone else could have every single broken bone in the exact same places as Jock's.
Agreed, Also not not sure if anyone has mentioned. Remember when Ray confronted Parmalee before he went in to see Miss Ellie? Ray last comment to Parmalee was something like I know what the the real Jock Ewing would do I am curious to see if you will do the same. Sorry If that is not the exact quote Ray said but I know it's close enough. Now to your point I think that is what Ray figured Jock would do. He would just walk away rather then continue to cause the family anymore pain So he left. My second option is that Parmalee lied to miss Ellie and told her he wasn't Jock (when in fact he really was) and he was sorry about the pain he caused her and the family then he left.
@@connerhuston2613 The real Jock would've disappeared off the face of the Earth before he'd hurt a family like you've done. It was something like that, which ironically enough pre-empts what's about to happen as Wes goes into Southfork to see Miss Ellie.
@@Via_The_Void , true Parmelee had that talk with Ray he went in to talk with miss Ellie. Ray said (not sure if these were his exact words) but he said something like I have a pretty good idea of what Jock would do. I want to see if you (Parmelee) are going to to the same thing. Gotta find that clip somewhere.
@@connerhuston2613 Jock Ewing would just lie to Ellie, and walk away from the family he created? To what? Some ghostly, existential void? I don't understand what precedent folks refer to when they confidently confirm "what Jock would've done."
@@TheEwing69 A strange coincidence! That's what you call the X rays. The injuries on Jock's X ray matched on Parmalee's I wouldn't call that a coincidence, I'd call it conclusive.
@@Via_The_Void Apparently the producers really *intended* Wes Parmalee to be Jock. So that's why they included all those things. But Dallas being Dallas they had a change of mind after a producer was against it or something so they forgot all about that and simply resolved it by making him a fraud. I mean if they could bring Bobby back from the dead by having an entire season a long dream there's *nothing* they wouldn't pull off.
I believe the show wanted to have "Wes" as jock because they wanted tv season 9 to look like season .But changed their minds when they would get flack from viewers.
Wes WAS Jock. They just did this because the audience didn't like the story line. The same broken bones in the same spots on the x-rays? Did he obtain Jocks x-rays and break all his bones himself?
Does anyone know if the question of was Wes suppose to be Jock was ever posed to any of the Casts? I mean it's been many years since so it would not be like they are revealing a secret plot.
Hi Connor, the original intention was for Ben/Wes to really be Jock Ewing but because of a fan backlash Steve Forrest got written off the show asap which is why he disappears so abruptly. Hope this answers your question buddy.
@@Via_The_Void , Thanks yeah I knew he was Jock, however I was just curious to know if anyone in the cast was ever questioned on the subject? Since it's been many years so some cast member would just say Yes he was suppose to be Jock. Because there were some people (who watched the show) for some reason still said he was NOT Jock. And some people may still think that to This day. Not many people but I am sure there are some out there. Thanks again
I think if you just watched it again, you wouldn't say that. I haven't seen it in a year or two and I still remember how awesome it was. It was great the way it united all the Ewing men and Punk. Even JR and Clayton were on the same side, which is unusual.
I thought it was a good story and during an era when Dallas and Dynasty were recasting characters like crazy, it just got you thinking that perhaps this character may have been Jock. Had they kept the character on and allowed Wes to start his own oil company (perhaps in the name of an old Ewing Oil field or something) Wes could have been a constant thorn in the side of J.R. who didn't believe his identity. It would have made the final seasons more interesting.
One of the most convuluted and incredulous storylines ever! And this 3 minute clip illustrates it perfectly. This guy is supposed to be Jock Ewing after a facelift? The sudden passing of Jim Davis seemed to throw the writers into chaos. There must have been a mad scramble on how to deal with the unexpected disappearance of one of the signature characters of "Dallas". They should have simply replaced Jock Ewing with a different actor. And Steve Forrest would have filled the shoes admirably. Just like they had Donna Reed as Miss Ellie for a season.
I honestly cannot believe that there are viewers who actually believed he was Jock Ewing when the writers of the show decided that he was a fraud as if they wrote the storyline to the show 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
I had posted on another video, but I think it would have made sense if Parmalee turned out to be a half brother of Jock. Their father Leander got married another time to a Suzanne and had Neil. He learned of his parentage and followed Jock under the phony alias of Wyatt Haynes. It could have explained the physical resemblance and a lot
Remember, we never SAW what Ellie and Wes' conversation consisted of. I personally think that he was Jock, but they agreed that too much time had passed and everyone's life was so different that he knew that he wouldn't fit in and didn't want to make everyone miserable. Jmho. I think that Ellie lied to everyone.
I always thought that he was Jock. Wes and Ray's conversation before Wes goes in to see Mrs Ellie in a way confirms this. Wes proves this by doing what Jock would do. I believe that if he wasnt Jock, Mrs Ellie would not have let go so easily and would have been more angry and open about her conversation with Wes. Too bad there was never anything more mentioned about this the rest of the series. It would have been good to see some follow ups on this and a few other stories from earlier in the series.
I wish we had seen the conversation between Miss Ellie and Parmalee. even if was in flashback as they did when she told the family was claiming to be Jock.
For those that remember, this was the same season Bobby came back, after Pam dreamed his death. The reason they brought he and "Jock" back, is because Miami Vice, was killing Dallas; in the ratings. The storyline was made, to avoid cancelation.
14DaveHunter No, Miami Vice never beat Dallas when they were head to head in the ratings (1986-88). Dallas ranked 11th during their first season going head to head, while Miami Vice - previously a top 10 show - dropped out of the top 20
kbirdusa After Bobby and "Jock" came back, then DALLAS got its momentum back. Even Larry Hagman himself said, the Bobby and Jock returns, was to give Miami Vice, loss in its ratings.
@@jaredjlinden You are absolutely right. TV insiders thought Miami Vice would crush Dallas. Miami Vice was a hot new show starting its 3rd season and attracting younger viewers while Dallas was an older show starting its 10th season. Surprisingly, Dallas regularly beat Miami Vice in the ratings.
If it helps buddy the original intention was for Wes/Ben to really be Jock. So yeah she probably did say a few white lies, why else would she want to stop Clayton going after Wes. Because Wes really was Jock, that's why|!
We know Parmalee was Jock. Why, would Ms. Ellie need to get her thoughts together about what a charlatan told her? Why was she stll distracted and distancing from Clayton?
Here was the problem. No one would want this Jock. No one. Show would die. Steve Forrest was nothing like Jim Davis. Davis’ Jock Ewing LOOKED like someone JR would fear and respect. If Steve Forrest played him full time, it wouldn’t be the same. JR’s a forever skeptic…he’d never believe it was Jock, and he’d be the same guy, and a JR without a healthy fear of Jock totally slaughters Jock’s character. That said, I loved that they threatened, but didn’t do anything to Parmalee. Smart move. In every fan’s mind, Jock doesn’t get beat up or pushed around. Doing it the way they did made the fans wonder JUST a little if that was Jock, even if the story was dumb
This scene with Ellie convinced me he WAS Jock. They just agreed to let it be. Thats the reason the scene was never shown of the talk. To appease the bitching fans but give a nod to the WES as Jock fans.
possibly..but...i reckon he was also a family man that realised true happiness and a family that had moved on was something he didnt want to create further unrest to
I don't know why they didn't check Wes Parmelees fingerprints. The Army would have copies and also Dallas PD from when Jock was charged with murdering Hitch McKinney.
No he disappears rather abruptly. The original intention was for Wes to really be Jock Ewing but because of a fan backlash the Producers changed their minds & wrote Steve Forrest out mid season.
I never really liked the way Jock was killed off. They could have tried something else, such as using a double from a distance and him having a heart attack at a bar- b-q or event. Never liked that his body was never found. He had heart surgery during the early years.
So Wes said he wasn't Jock. Only because his family didn't believe him & he realised that Miss Ellie had moved on with her life with Clayton Farlow. Despite saying he wasn't Jock, it's so obvious that he really WAS Jock all along.
Truth be told, when an actor/actress dies in real life, the real way to honor them is to only mention them in future storylines. NOT to bring back 'could be, might be' scenarios that are only meant to gin up ratings. Didn't work here, didn't work with the fake Pamela Ewing storyline after Victoria Principal left (although fake Pam actress Margaret Michaels was sexy as hell), and in a modern day way, doesn't work with these 3D holograms (a la Michael Jackson/Tupac). When it's all over, it's only a stark reminder that those folks are no longer with us.
How great would it have been if Wes turned out to be Tom Owens. The crazy old coot who started the barfight and shot Jock from the episode the dove hunt. Some guy name Wyatt Haynes was lame.
Nah, Ellie is lying.............she's being too vague and doesn't want to even talk to Clayton about it and she NEVER told him or anyone ANYTHING about the conversation.
dnt think she was lying...dnt think she knew how to put her feelings into words....words that her present husband would have understood anyway.......wld have been vry different if ellie n jock's relationship had deteriorated n then they divorced...Jock died in a crash and Ellie had to find a way to make peace with that(not stop loving him but to make peace with the fact he was gone and not coming back)...when she felt he had returned to her...the old feelings and love resurfaced because they never went away she just had to make peace with him not coming back....this was a stupid storyline that because of the viewer backlash dallas just abandoned.....steve forrest was just a poor choice for a jim davis replacement....jim davis was a veteran actor with a amazing,confidence,charisma,presence.....not easily replacable......could have been done but not with steve forrest....chuck connors,forrest tucker maybe...steve forrest no...
Had we seen the conversation, I would believe that he wasn't Jock.....but.......it is still open ended and up to the viewers' interpretations. I just find it odd the way Ellie acted and under no circumstances wanted Wes found by Clayton, etc.
i assumed that wes told her that he had fallen in love with her and i assume it was the depth of wes's love for ellie that made him give up on the con . the revelation no doubt would have troubled ellie and i do think that she too fell in love with wes and maybe was in love with him a bit more than she was with clayton and Jock . Hence why she was so troubled and vague in her explanations with clayton and the others . In any case wes not being jock became the truth and this show is now over .
in actuality at the time jim davis died his character was still a very much an intricate part of the show..and because jim davis was just a distinct actor..they were unclear how to move fwd....Wes Parmalee was introduced the latter part of pam's dream sequence....once duffy left the ratings began to slip and they came up with this cornball storyline...but when viewers appeared to be unaccepting of the storyline...it was quickly abandoned...i believe they got backlash because steve forrest was totally miscast....in season 5 jock was off on some exploration in another country...it wld have made more sense to drag that story line out until the last 4-5 episodes of the season...his helicopter crashed..he lived but need extensive plastic surgery.....the new jock introduced in the season finale......
I think yes He was actually Jock.. And he didnt want to create heart ache for the family so decided to walk away.. BUT then again... That should have been confirmed.. I think more emphasis was given to the return of Bobby than anything else.. Amd because all viewers were happy for Bobbys return, they didnt care! Especially after experiencing the DREAM SEASON ! Anything was possible!
Jock Ewing would not have just turned tail and ran like that. Jock would have stayed and fought for his family and his company. And.....how do you explain what Bobby found in South America? Everyone seems to just overlook that out of wanting this man to be Jock.
@@caseyl3789 Yes DNA didn't exist then. Even in the early 90s, DNA was difficult as technicians had to visually match the DNA strands and it was long and laborious process
Lie detector was a ridiculous idea. If Wes really thought he was Jock, then his statements would not register as lies. If Wes lost his memory in the crash he could have been recalling the stuff Jock was describing when he was rambling with fever. Recalling it but not remembering that it came from Jock, he could have thought they were his own memories.
@@twc3546 No It wasn't a ridiculous idea. The Ewings thought Wes was a fraud who knew he wasn't Jock. They didnt' think he had amnesia and acquired Jock's memories.
Steve Forrest was such a great actor too - big booming voice, he was better than Jim Davis in a lot of ways... a missed opportunity. The show fumbled in those later years by introducing characters that didnt fit. Jenna, Clayton... awful characters that served no purpose but to keep Pam and Bobby apart and Miss Ellie busy.
Why couldn't Parmalee have been Jock? Offhand, maybe because he had an entirely different build. What, did his whole skeleton shrink? He was so badly burned they had to build him a new face but his face doesn't have a single scar on it?
David Paulsen Messed Up Both Dallas And Dynasty Dallas Went Downhill After Bobby Returning And Season 9 Of Dynasty Losing Linda Evans (Krystle Carrington) And Having Blake Carrington Being Mean Adam Carrington Very Evil And Killing Dex It Made No Sense
they originally were planing to bring Jock back..with another actor... but the entire cast protested it as did the fans. so they changed it to somone pretending to be Jock.............. one thing were not explained one being how Wes Parmalee had the same wounds as Jock from the hunting trip. Doctors exhaimed Wes and found out he had old wounds like Jock when Jock was shot during a hunting trip. of course JR didn't believe Wes was Jock. and even if he truely was. I guess JR never heared of plastic surgery after all if you get burned in a crash chances are your not going to look like you did before the crash.
I sort of wish they had let Wes Parmalee be Jock, but I'm glad they didn't and allow Jim Davis' character to Rest in Peace. He was the only one, IMO who could be Jock Ewing.
This had to be one of the worst storylines ever in a TV show. They tried to bring back Jock Ewing and it failed miserably. They wrote Parmalee off as an imposter after viewer reaction was unfavorable.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
I always loved Barbara Bel Geddes in this role. Such a wonderful actress.
Yes I Agree 💯
Rest in peace JR your masterpiece was amazingly planned and carefully followed
Yes christina
This was the best show that ever been on 📺 and nothing now is better love jr
Steve Forrest (Parmalee) played a similar character in the previous season, aka the "dream" season, named Ben Stivers. It was originally scripted that he WAS Jock. His revelation would've been part of the cliffhanger that year. When Patrick Duffey agreed to come back, the story line was shelved until the next season. With Bobby back it was unnecessary to bring back Jock, and all of the original cast members weren't sold on the idea anyway, as they were all of the opinion that no one could replace Jim Davis.
I would've taken Jock back over Bobby every day of the week.
Keena and you are a idiot
That's not true. If you have the DVD there is an interview in the special features section where it's explained that was never something they intended to do and that it would have been an insult to Jim Davis to do that. They always kept a portrait of Jim Davis on the wall, reminding the audience who was the real Jock Ewing.
@@KennyKendall2001 really? The point was to string us along? I think it would have been great. Bobby stayed dead, Jock returns, clayton dies of a heart attack and Jock swoops in. I think this was one of the 4 bad mistakes that killed the series.
2. Bobby's return. Never never ever should have been so final. One simple scene would have made it ambiguous.
3. Pamela leaving. They had the perfect opportunity and actress, Margret Michaels, to take over as Pam. She was a different character anyway and would have kept Bobby interesting for at least two more seasons.
4. JR losing. Why was the vampire defanged? After losing Ewing oil he should have went into politics and ran against Cliff.
@@CaptainSpalding72 I think bringing back Patrick Duffy was mistake too. Having Bobby not be dead and saying the whole previous season had ben Pam's dream made it hard to take anything else that happened from then onwards seriously.
Victoria Principal wanted to leave so that wasn't something they had control over. I liked April a lot. She was the only new character in the later seasons I did like. James was a big mistake. The actor who played James couldn't act! I didn't like Michelle either. They weren't good for the show.
The writers weakened JR a lot in the later seasons. I don't know why they didn't fix that mistake when they saw it wasn't working. The show didn't work with JR as a loser.
Love this clip. It's brilliant. Great cast. Fantastic show. Compulsive viewing.
That Wes Parmalee story may have been ridiculous, but it was damn entertaining.
Yes I Agree 💯
I agree too😂
Wes Parmalee could have been an ideal psychiatric patient.
Steve Forrest’s stint as Ben Stivers during the Dream Season was quite intriguing… 🧐
Very rare that JR gave Clayton equal credit and footing.
Yes that's true. For this stage of the series it wasn't a bad storyline.
That helped J.R.. He's more of a complex character than a typical villian. He knows when to get ruthless when necessary.
JR and Clayton did get on on the rare occasion
@@JayJay-nc7pr true did
stevebbuk it wasn’t a bad storyline per se, but it was poorly executed. We never got answers.. how did he have the exact injuries as Jock? How’d he pass the polygraph?
I loved when J.R. met Parmelee,he walked up and said sarcasticly,"Well, Hello Daddy!!"
Tom Moorhead That was hilarious
When he said that I honestly thought at first that J R was behind the whole thing!
J.r was a bastard liked em though
The real tragedy is that originally he was intended to really be Jock, but because of a fan backlash they chickened out on keeping Steve Forrest on as Jock and wrote the character out asap, that's why he just disappears so abruptly.
Not true. The producer of the show, David Paulsen, said they had no intention of making Wes Parmalee Jock. By the time the first episode where Wes claimed to be Jock was airing, they were already filming the story’s resolution where they revealed Wes wasn’t Jock.
Morgan Woodward as Punk Anderson, still alive in his 90's. Also, remember him as Boone Walton, on "The Waltons".
14DaveHunter The mob boss on Walking Tall Final Chapter.
If you want to see how great he was just watch him on old Gunsmoke episodes. He was amazing
He played a manipulative senator in The Midnight Man (Burt Lancaster movie)...good movie, check it out...
And, Which Way Is Up!
Oh, that's where I remember him from. I was wracking my brain, trying to figure out where I had seen him. That family was cra cra, but who could forget about Martha Corinne. My God, that actress could tug on the heartstrings when she wanted to. I loved the scene where the family is moving off the mountain and Martha Corinne tells the story of when she and her husband moved into the house. Her eyes had that far away look that one gets when relaying past events. She moved slowly, sweeping up the last bit of their lives there. I didn't want that scene to end. I cried when she died, in the painted pony episode. What a talent Beulah Bondi was, as well as Morgan Woodward.
I wish this show was still around great drama
Once in a lifetime mediocre series
@Greg Watson yet you keep watching 🤡🤡🤡
Rip To All Those Who We're On Dallas,That Are No Longer With Us, Still Miss You All😢😢😢
I think Miss Ellie really wanted it to be Jock.
i think Parmalee banged Miss Ellie in a cut scene
Ron Yeahright That must be why she was upset he was gone in this scene.
@@johnothy , it is well known that they intended to bring Jock back, despite all the protestation that it was not so, which is why the storyline so abruptly ended with unanswered and unresolved questions and plot holes. Given the lame ass confession was offscreen and Miss Ellie's rather wistful reaction made it a bit ambiguous if Wes was indeed a con man or actually Jock himself and the two agree it was better that they parted ways.
@@PungiFungi He was meant to really be Jock but a fan backlash not receptive to the recast of Steve Forrest taking over the role made Lorimar reverse their decision & they wrote him off the show asap. That's why Wes just disappears so abruptly.
punk made it to 95 and only passed a couple of years ago - class gent
He looks 95 here lol
Punk or Morgan Woodward?
Wow.God Bless him.
Great guy !
He drinking Irish whisky with jock in paradise now
what the hell did Clayton expect for Miss Ellie to just forget what happen not having old emotions and feeling stired up again do to Parmalee. It took her long time to accept Jock was dead and then Parmalee comes in with renewed hope Jock is still alive......that is not something you can just forget.
The scene in the living room seems like a final scene is Scooby-Doo!
with Bobby in the role of Velma!
John Ross: “Good one, Raggy” 😂
No, Scooby-Doo made more logical sense than this did.
Absolutely...lol!
Lol! 😂
I really thought this show jumped the shark when they ended this storyline so abruptly. They had set it up perfectly that he was Jock and when they come out with this ridiculous story that it wasn't him it was just so hokey.
I always thought they should have made Steve Forrest's character Jason, Jock's brother and Jamie and Jack's father
Parmalee never had Jock's toughness he never even really acted like Jock and would never let JR and Bobby talk to him like that no matter how old or disfigured he was. They should have had him drive a Lincoln Continental Mark too to make it even more believable..
@@willisapril JR never talked to Jock like that. Bobby did many times and got away with it. Jock respected and almost even encouraged Bobby's defiance.
Dallas inconsistent
The producers got rid of the character due to very unfavorable viewer approval of it. They decided to go this route and eliminate the idea of Jock Ewing still being alive. The damage was already done though, and the show never fully recovered from this idiotic storyline.
I have never seen a single episode of Dallas, but I found myself binging on these short clips and I wonder if Miss Ellie was ever happy. She seems to be crying in almost every clip. I remember back in the day, people asking me why I never watched it, but it held no interest for me. It seemed too much like a man's show. Dynasty was my guilty pleasure, mainly because of Alexis. It was so nice to see a woman in a dominant role and to be just as conniving and ruthless as any man. That and let's face it, the clothes were everything. Not too many of my close friends watch Dallas, it was more my co-workers that watched. My friends and I were hard core Dynasty fans and it is so nice to be able to watch clips here on you tube, even if the clips are just a few minutes long. It brings back some very good memories. Although I did give up on it a few seasons before it was cancelled, so some of the clips here are new to me. I think if I had given Dallas a try, I might have liked it, especially since the writing was so good and Bobby was sooooo hot.
I am a hardcore dynasty fan too but dallas is the nightime soap that started it all- amazon prime has all 13 seasons available- you should watch dallas the first 8 seasons are the best- after that it goes downhill but even at its worst it beats what is on tv now - both dallas and dynasty were pop culture phenomenons and part of tv history i grew up watching both
Watching these scenes..........its as if it was "aired" yesterday....as if times hasn,t passed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i,ve probably said it about this programme a millon times......................Great Show!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Someone needs to remind Bobby that Wes Parmalee had blood tests that matched up with Jock, had x-rays that matched up with Jock, and passed a lie detector test confirming he was Jock! ... Wyatt would NOT have been able to do those things! ... The only reason Parmalee left is because he saw what pain it was causing the Ewing family - another move confirming he was Jock.
Michael Zoran Bingo
That would have been too much work for the crappy writers of the new Dallas. They didn't even watch much of the old show.
I think the writers originally planned for Wes to really be Jock, but chickened out because they feared viewer reaction.
I tell you this.....it must have been some type of SL if all these years later people still debate if Wes was Jock (which personally I think he was. The x-rays proved it for me).
@@chandlerwhite8302 it had already happened. it leaked that he was a fans hit the roof.
I read in a book about the show that Steve Forest had to wrap up on Dallas and leave to film a Gunsmoke reunion movie he had committed to. He stated that Leonard Katzman wanted him to stay longer, but he couldn’t at that time. Steve had thought they wanted him to permanently join the cast, but were seeing how the audience reacted.
Best 80s Nighttime Soap Ever,In My Opinion
Agreed 💯
It's certainly stood the test of time. I love the show's theme tune. The Dallas theme is one of the most iconic themes of all time, just like the Star Trek & Doctor Who theme tunes.
@@TheAutisticCapricornExactly 💯
@@Via_The_VoidExactly 💯
Classic example of a jumping the shark moment. The Wes Parmalee character first appeared towards the end of the "dream season" but writers were so lazy they assumed nobody would remember.
Actually they did reintroduce him and some other storylines. Just at the beginning of the real season they developed it way faster.
What got me is that Wes also recognized Jock's tailor! You mean Jock talked about his tailor in his delirium as well?!!
Those must have been some fittings.
😂😂😂. I think the writers were scrambling to put the pieces together since Jim Davis passed away.
Wes was Jock. Miss Ellie's scene with Clayton said it all. He was alive but for the good of the family, he had to stay dead. Miss Ellie felt like she lost him all over again.
100% right !
100% false because they asked, the producer of Dallas did they have any intention of reprising jocks character through Steve portraying Wes. And he said absolutely not.
@@drdfilm The Producers are hardly going to admit that they changed a storyline outcome because that storyline wasn't well recieved.
@@Via_The_Void there are producers out there that admit when they try things and fail or when they change their minds on something. If that's the case they got no reason to deny something like that. Especially when you're talking about an old show that really has no relevance for today.
@PungiFungi,
Can you please explain to me in detail how can Wes be Jock if Jock was played by the late Jim Davis and everybody worldwide knew about?
It would have been a great twist if the revival series had them discover Parmalee had died and out of curiosity Bobby runs a DNA test and discovers he was really Jock.
Exactly. ... Someone needs to remind Bobby that Wes Parmalee had blood tests that matched up with Jock, had x-rays that matched up with Jock, and passed a lie detector test confirming he was Jock! ... Wyatt would NOT have been able to do those things!
Michael Zoran Came back to this video recently one other thing to add. Bobby talking to Christopher and John Ross "I spoke to the hospital where Amanda was kept. They said after leaving us Parmalee visited her and continued to visit everyday until the day she died."
Tim Riggins , Never thought about that yes that would have been a great twist. Or something like that happened before the original went off the air.
Another thing punk said that Jock had a fever and he was "ranting and Raven" for days about his life. Now how is someone suppose take a sick man who "was ranting raven words seriously? And remember everything thing he said anyway? Parmelee was suppose to be as old as Jock you mean to tell me someone of that age going remember in detail what was said 5 years earlier? Jock had a long life I am sure he didn't say everything. Parmelee was Jock I think miss Ellie knew it.
Tim Riggins,......... That is interesting what you mentioned. one thing bothers me..... Remember the first time Jock went to see Amanda with Miss Ellie, Amanda didn't reconize him and thought Bobby was a Young Jock. when Bobby returned the second time to get papers to save Ewing Oil from Cliff and Jamie....Amanda thought he was Jock........
if Parmalee was pretending to be Jock. I don't think Amanda even with her memory issues would have accepted him as Jock. She remembers Jock as young when both of them got married. not as a old man.
I never believed Wes was Jock. My guess was that Wes was the pilot of Jock's helicopter who had truly had reconstructive surgery and sincerely believed that he was Jock, which is how he passed the lie detector test. The eventual explanation was similar to this but Wes had apparently figured out he was not Jock before he even came to Dallas. I was also hoping the character would return at some point but instead, he just vanished.
Someone needs to remind Bobby that Wes Parmalee had blood tests that matched up with Jock, had x-rays that matched up with Jock, and passed a lie detector test confirming he was Jock! ... Wyatt would NOT have been able to do those things! ... The only reason Parmalee left is because he saw what pain it was causing the Ewing family - another move confirming he was Jock.
James Kennedy fans were ready for Jock real or fake . the writers should have rolled the dice.
Michael Zoran People can pass a lie detector test so that's not too surprising. He could have had the same blood type as Jock. Could mark it off as coincidence. I don't see how he could have had matching wounds as Jock though. That signifies to me that he was Jock (or at least, that was the writers intentions) and they ended up getting cold feet when it wasn't going over well with the viewers or cast and so they abruptly ended the storyline without tying up all the loose ends.
He just vanished because there was a fan backlash not receptive to the storyline. It leaked whilst the show was being filmed that Steve Forrest would be playing the new Jock Ewing. Quite a few American fans bombarded CBS & Lorimar with complaints not to bring Jock Ewing back with another actor. They felt it was disrespectful to Jim Davis who had originated the role. So reluctantly Lorimar wrote Steve Forrest out of the show. The original intention was for Wes Parmalee to really be Jock Ewing.
@@Via_The_Void Miss Ellie was certainly holding back something. Instead of being angry at being manipulated, she seemed sad. Assuming Wes did confessed to Ellie that he was a con, Ellie sensed that Wes didn't meant it. She knew deep down that Wes was Jock. Very telling the rest of the family only focused on evidence that could be questioned in affirming their belief in Wes being a con, instead of the evidence that they could not refute, like the x-rays.
It's a shame they couldn't settle this earlier on. Didn't they have a Maury Show back then?
..in all seriousness I liked this storyline and I think they ended it the best possible way. I liked how they didn't show Wes' conversation with Ellie because it left us hanging with the possibility that this guy really was Jock. I think it would've been hard for most viewers to accept a new Jock and with Bobby having just been "resurrected " two Ewings returning from the dead would've been too much. I mean it's Dallas not Highlander.
they do it all the time. It would have been an easy recast and people wanted Jock back and Forrest would have owned it and those later years would have been something instead of Hagman getting drunk and JR shit on.
I guess we respectfully disagree on that one. Obviously JD wasn't up there with Kevin Spacey as far as his acting but he didn't need to be. Most of Jock Ewing's character was just a look and a presence. Davis left such an impact with both that the character is held on the platform even today. SF was a great actor but I don't think he would've brought those elements home the way Jim did but hell we'll never know.
Buck Wild Wes Parmalee originally was supposed to be Jock, but both Fans and the Cast didn't want that. so the writers changed it.
Thank God they did. I love Dallas. My all time favorite show, but as much as I love it that probably would have been the one thing to make me want to stop watching, especially coming on the heels of the ridiculous dream season.
JohnBoy918 Pamela leaving killed the series
part of the irony of this scene is that woodward was originally the choice for jock. he refused when he found out his friend jim davis was also up for the role to give him a chance to start on a show. If this story is true makes u wonder what would have happened if the roles had been reversed. Morgan was still alive when show went off air.
Wow. I think MW only died a few years ago, 2016 maybe?.... show would have been amazing had he took the Jock role and lasted.
@@CaptainSpalding72 i don't know how much i buy the "friendship" aspect of the story. from waht i've heard and read noone disputes the actors were friends. on and off screen. i guess what i doubt is why anybody in that business puts friendship over money. obviously punk's actor would have made much more money overall even if not per episode as a regular than as a recurring character. jim davis was a fine actor and it's a shame he built most of his career as a character actor, but one big what if of this show had they gone with the other actor.
The only time Miss Ellie had anything important to say in Dallas and she wouldn't talk . . . .
Excellent point.
Possibly she didn't want to hurt Clayton by telling him the truth. That's the way I see it.
This explanation never made any sense. They had hired the best investigators that money could buy to go to South America, and none of them came up with this. But, somehow, Bobby did after Parmalee had already decided to leave? I will forever believe that they fully intended to have this man be Jock. They first brought in Forrest during the previous season and started to hint at something then, only to have to scrap the story when Duffy returned, making the season a dream.
They brought him back under a different name, but it was clear that the story was the same.
I think the fact that they had already lost about 10% of their audience by resurrecting Bobby prompted them to change their mind about doing it again with Jock.
Ultimately, it was a poor resolution to an otherwise good storyline. I prefer to think that he actually was Jock, and did what he had to do to make things better for his family. And, Miss Ellie knew it.
But if he wasn't Jock then who was this Wyatt Haynes ?
In the original script he was going to be Jock, but the audience did not like it, Miss Ellie getting re-married to Clayton, and Steve Forrest being 16 years younger than Jim Davis had a lot to do with it too.
Back then tv shows ran around 25 episodes each year and they would film 6 and start the season and keep shooting while that season was in progress, so when people complained about Wes becoming Jock, they were able to call an audible and change the storyline...The Dallas loyalists loved Jim Davis and were not having it so they canned it...if that were today the storyline would have remained with Wes becoming Jock...so its hard for me totally believe Wes isn't Jock as the explanation was weak as hell
Miss Ellie Would have been happier with Parmalee than Clayton
Clayton is handsomer, though.
Yes, but Clayton is hung like a baby carrot.
@@ryanreiter576lol
Clayton, smh. He tried, but he came up short. A poor man's Jock.
Jebediah North Clayton wasn’t poor by the slightest.
Howard Keel could easily have played the role of Jock if casted from the start so he was a great replacement as Ellies partner .
I miss watching Dallas I miss watching this episode I miss watching miss all the cast of Dallas
I've always believed Parmalee really was Jock and just left because of the pain it was causing his family. There's no way someone else could have every single broken bone in the exact same places as Jock's.
Agreed, Also not not sure if anyone has mentioned. Remember when Ray confronted Parmalee before he went in to see Miss Ellie?
Ray last comment to Parmalee was something like I know what the the real Jock Ewing would do I am curious to see if you will do the same.
Sorry If that is not the exact quote Ray said but I know it's close enough.
Now to your point I think that is what Ray figured Jock would do. He would just walk away rather then continue to cause the family anymore pain
So he left.
My second option is that Parmalee lied to miss Ellie and told her he wasn't Jock (when in fact he really was) and he was sorry about the pain he caused her and the family then he left.
@@connerhuston2613 The real Jock would've disappeared off the face of the Earth before he'd hurt a family like you've done. It was something like that, which ironically enough pre-empts what's about to happen as Wes goes into Southfork to see Miss Ellie.
@@Via_The_Void , true Parmelee had that talk with Ray he went in to talk with miss Ellie.
Ray said (not sure if these were his exact words) but he said something like I have a pretty good idea of what Jock would do.
I want to see if you (Parmelee) are going to to the same thing.
Gotta find that clip somewhere.
@@connerhuston2613 Jock Ewing would just lie to Ellie, and walk away from the family he created? To what? Some ghostly, existential void? I don't understand what precedent folks refer to when they confidently confirm "what Jock would've done."
How does a mans xrays and blood match if it’s not himself?
Tv
He was Jock. He only said he wasn't to spare Miss Ellie & his family any more pain because they didn't believe him.
Not uncommon to have the same blood type, the X-rays matching was a strange coincidence.
@@TheEwing69 A strange coincidence! That's what you call the X rays. The injuries on Jock's X ray matched on Parmalee's I wouldn't call that a coincidence, I'd call it conclusive.
@@Via_The_Void Apparently the producers really *intended* Wes Parmalee to be Jock. So that's why they included all those things. But Dallas being Dallas they had a change of mind after a producer was against it or something so they forgot all about that and simply resolved it by making him a fraud. I mean if they could bring Bobby back from the dead by having an entire season a long dream there's *nothing* they wouldn't pull off.
Script-writers were desperate.
The “Wes Parmalee is Jock Ewing” is the best plot since Jock died
I believe the show wanted to have "Wes" as jock because they wanted tv season 9 to look like season .But changed their minds when they would get flack from viewers.
Wes WAS Jock. They just did this because the audience didn't like the story line. The same broken bones in the same spots on the x-rays? Did he obtain Jocks x-rays and break all his bones himself?
Agreed, he was Jock
Does anyone know if the question of was Wes suppose to be Jock was ever posed to any of the Casts? I mean it's been many years since so it would not be like they are revealing a secret plot.
Hi Connor, the original intention was for Ben/Wes to really be Jock Ewing but because of a fan backlash Steve Forrest got written off the show asap which is why he disappears so abruptly. Hope this answers your question buddy.
@@Via_The_Void , Thanks yeah I knew he was Jock, however I was just curious to know if anyone in the cast was ever questioned on the subject? Since it's been many years so some cast member would just say Yes he was suppose to be Jock. Because there were some people (who watched the show) for some reason still said he was NOT Jock. And some people may still think that to This day. Not many people but I am sure there are some out there.
Thanks again
JR threw some massive shade on Ray and Punk.
This entire story arc was not one of the better ones in Dallas.
I think if you just watched it again, you wouldn't say that. I haven't seen it in a year or two and I still remember how awesome it was.
It was great the way it united all the Ewing men and Punk. Even JR and Clayton were on the same side, which is unusual.
I hated this one.
I thought it was a good story and during an era when Dallas and Dynasty were recasting characters like crazy, it just got you thinking that perhaps this character may have been Jock.
Had they kept the character on and allowed Wes to start his own oil company (perhaps in the name of an old Ewing Oil field or something) Wes could have been a constant thorn in the side of J.R. who didn't believe his identity. It would have made the final seasons more interesting.
One of the most convuluted and incredulous storylines ever! And this 3 minute clip illustrates it perfectly. This guy is supposed to be Jock Ewing after a facelift? The sudden passing of Jim Davis seemed to throw the writers into chaos. There must have been a mad scramble on how to deal with the unexpected disappearance of one of the signature characters of "Dallas". They should have simply replaced Jock Ewing with a different actor. And Steve Forrest would have filled the shoes admirably. Just like they had Donna Reed as Miss Ellie for a season.
I honestly cannot believe that there are viewers who actually believed he was Jock Ewing when the writers of the show decided that he was a fraud as if they wrote the storyline to the show 🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️🤷🏽♂️
Almost five minutes of Dallas without any booze. Not very common.
JR is holding a drink.
"I cant believe we're fighting on the same side. "-Son Goku to Piccolo on "The Dead Zone" (1989). J.R. Basically said about Clayton and Bobby.
I had posted on another video, but I think it would have made sense if Parmalee turned out to be a half brother of Jock. Their father Leander got married another time to a Suzanne and had Neil. He learned of his parentage and followed Jock under the phony alias of Wyatt Haynes. It could have explained the physical resemblance and a lot
Remember, we never SAW what Ellie and Wes' conversation consisted of. I personally think that he was Jock, but they agreed that too much time had passed and everyone's life was so different that he knew that he wouldn't fit in and didn't want to make everyone miserable. Jmho. I think that Ellie lied to everyone.
T James interesting thought
I always thought that he was Jock. Wes and Ray's conversation before Wes goes in to see Mrs Ellie in a way confirms this. Wes proves this by doing what Jock would do. I believe that if he wasnt Jock, Mrs Ellie would not have let go so easily and would have been more angry and open about her conversation with Wes. Too bad there was never anything more mentioned about this the rest of the series. It would have been good to see some follow ups on this and a few other stories from earlier in the series.
I wish we had seen the conversation between Miss Ellie and Parmalee. even if was in flashback as they did when she told the family was claiming to be Jock.
That doesn't explain Bobby's Wyatt Haines story?
For those that remember, this was the same season Bobby came back, after Pam dreamed his death. The reason they brought he and "Jock" back, is because Miami Vice, was killing Dallas; in the ratings. The storyline was made, to avoid cancelation.
14DaveHunter No, Miami Vice never beat Dallas when they were head to head in the ratings (1986-88). Dallas ranked 11th during their first season going head to head, while Miami Vice - previously a top 10 show - dropped out of the top 20
kbirdusa After Bobby and "Jock" came back, then DALLAS got its momentum back. Even Larry Hagman himself said, the Bobby and Jock returns, was to give Miami Vice, loss in its ratings.
@@jaredjlinden You are absolutely right. TV insiders thought Miami Vice would crush Dallas. Miami Vice was a hot new show starting its 3rd season and attracting younger viewers while Dallas was an older show starting its 10th season. Surprisingly, Dallas regularly beat Miami Vice in the ratings.
How is this monetized?
Nah.....I still think that Ellie is lying.
If it helps buddy the original intention was for Wes/Ben to really be Jock. So yeah she probably did say a few white lies, why else would she want to stop Clayton going after Wes. Because Wes really was Jock, that's why|!
We know Parmalee was Jock. Why, would Ms. Ellie need to get her thoughts together about what a charlatan told her? Why was she stll distracted and distancing from Clayton?
After the “dream season” this was the oddest thing the show came up with, the Wes Parmalee storyline.
Clayton’s ascot though LOL
I remember Steve Forrest in the UK TV series, The Baron.
These men would never wear their hats in the house.
Here was the problem.
No one would want this Jock. No one. Show would die. Steve Forrest was nothing like Jim Davis. Davis’ Jock Ewing LOOKED like someone JR would fear and respect.
If Steve Forrest played him full time, it wouldn’t be the same. JR’s a forever skeptic…he’d never believe it was Jock, and he’d be the same guy, and a JR without a healthy fear of Jock totally slaughters Jock’s character.
That said, I loved that they threatened, but didn’t do anything to Parmalee. Smart move. In every fan’s mind, Jock doesn’t get beat up or pushed around. Doing it the way they did made the fans wonder JUST a little if that was Jock, even if the story was dumb
Imagine living the life of the Ewings the excitement ....!!!
The ulcers, the high blood pressure.
Victoria Principal was absolutely BEAUTIFUL in this scene!
One of the most beautiful women EVER!
This scene with Ellie convinced me he WAS Jock. They just agreed to let it be. Thats the reason the scene was never shown of the talk. To appease the bitching fans but give a nod to the WES as Jock fans.
Yes buddy. Wes was Jock all along.
I was just a kid when this was on. I used to sit on my nana's lap while she watched this. I know now why she watched it. God damn, JR.
possibly..but...i reckon he was also a family man that realised true happiness and a family that had moved on was something he didnt want to create further unrest to
This video is so authentic Bobby’s shirt colors are acting up just like on the original TV this aired on.
I don't know why they didn't check Wes Parmelees fingerprints. The Army would have copies and also Dallas PD from when Jock was charged with murdering Hitch McKinney.
He didn't have any fingerprints because he was burnt in the chopper crash.
I felt bad for miss Eille
She felt like she like she lost Jock again..
have any of you ever been to south fork ranch if not you owe it to yourself to go it's a great experience.
I was in Dallas area once and drove past it. It was surreal seeing it looking exactly the same as on tv.
Jock would've been in his late 70s by this point whereas Parmalee looked about 60.
With the full white hair, Parmalee looked a lot older than 60, even though Steve Forrest was only 60-61 at the time.
Where is the conclusion to this scene, did the Ewing’s catch up with Parmalee over his lies?
No he disappears rather abruptly. The original intention was for Wes to really be Jock Ewing but because of a fan backlash the Producers changed their minds & wrote Steve Forrest out mid season.
I never really liked the way Jock was killed off. They could have tried something else, such as using a double from a distance and him having a heart attack at a bar- b-q or event. Never liked that his body was never found. He had heart surgery during the early years.
Well nobody liked the way Jock was killed off, but since the RL actor Jim Davis died ....
The actor , actually died !!
@@jimmyk255 Jim Davis passed away between the fourth & fifth seasons. He had brain cancer.
One of the best series ever -- but plot lines like this one, where someone shows up claiming to be Jock, etc., were ridiculous.
Best show ever
I gained a lot of respect for Clayton in this episode.
But he lost it with inane storylines like chasing after a girl in a painting.
Was there supposed to be a Ewing bbq at that time!!?
The writers were reaching with these story lines. It's like they ran out of ideas but had to keep the show going.
What story line
Is this a scene from scooby do?
Steve Forrest should have returned as Jason Ewing. He could have married Ellie instead.
Indeed. I think I would've rather her marry Wendell over Clayton Farlow. Couldn't stand him.
Yeah, that could have worked better. Than Jack and Jamie could've got some personel stories.
What about clayton? Was he not supposed to be jock ewing?
So Wes said he wasn't Jock. Only because his family didn't believe him & he realised that Miss Ellie had moved on with her life with Clayton Farlow. Despite saying he wasn't Jock, it's so obvious that he really WAS Jock all along.
That was Not Over Yet! It’s Not Easy to Solve That Mystery!
Truth be told, when an actor/actress dies in real life, the real way to honor them is to only mention them in future storylines. NOT to bring back 'could be, might be' scenarios that are only meant to gin up ratings. Didn't work here, didn't work with the fake Pamela Ewing storyline after Victoria Principal left (although fake Pam actress Margaret Michaels was sexy as hell), and in a modern day way, doesn't work with these 3D holograms (a la Michael Jackson/Tupac). When it's all over, it's only a stark reminder that those folks are no longer with us.
How great would it have been if Wes turned out to be Tom Owens. The crazy old coot who started the barfight and shot Jock from the episode the dove hunt. Some guy name Wyatt Haynes was lame.
Nah, Ellie is lying.............she's being too vague and doesn't want to even talk to Clayton about it and she NEVER told him or anyone ANYTHING about the conversation.
dnt think she was lying...dnt think she knew how to put her feelings into words....words that her present husband would have understood anyway.......wld have been vry different if ellie n jock's relationship had deteriorated n then they divorced...Jock died in a crash and Ellie had to find a way to make peace with that(not stop loving him but to make peace with the fact he was gone and not coming back)...when she felt he had returned to her...the old feelings and love resurfaced because they never went away she just had to make peace with him not coming back....this was a stupid storyline that because of the viewer backlash dallas just abandoned.....steve forrest was just a poor choice for a jim davis replacement....jim davis was a veteran actor with a amazing,confidence,charisma,presence.....not easily replacable......could have been done but not with steve forrest....chuck connors,forrest tucker maybe...steve forrest no...
Had we seen the conversation, I would believe that he wasn't Jock.....but.......it is still open ended and up to the viewers' interpretations. I just find it odd the way Ellie acted and under no circumstances wanted Wes found by Clayton, etc.
i assumed that wes told her that he had fallen in love with her and i assume it was the depth of wes's love for ellie that made him give up on the con . the revelation no doubt would have troubled ellie and i do think that she too fell in love with wes and maybe was in love with him a bit more than she was with clayton and Jock . Hence why she was so troubled and vague in her explanations with clayton and the others . In any case wes not being jock became the truth and this show is now over .
in actuality at the time jim davis died his character was still a very much an intricate part of the show..and because jim davis was just a distinct actor..they were unclear how to move fwd....Wes Parmalee was introduced the latter part of pam's dream sequence....once duffy left the ratings began to slip and they came up with this cornball storyline...but when viewers appeared to be unaccepting of the storyline...it was quickly abandoned...i believe they got backlash because steve forrest was totally miscast....in season 5 jock was off on some exploration in another country...it wld have made more sense to drag that story line out until the last 4-5 episodes of the season...his helicopter crashed..he lived but need extensive plastic surgery.....the new jock introduced in the season finale......
your entitled to your opinion...
I think yes
He was actually Jock.. And he didnt want to create heart ache for the family so decided to walk away.. BUT
then again... That should have been confirmed.. I think more emphasis was given to the return of Bobby than anything else.. Amd because all viewers were happy for Bobbys return, they didnt care! Especially after experiencing the DREAM SEASON ! Anything was possible!
Jock Ewing would not have just turned tail and ran like that. Jock would have stayed and fought for his family and his company. And.....how do you explain what Bobby found in South America? Everyone seems to just overlook that out of wanting this man to be Jock.
@@JohnBoy918 Easy. The Haynes is in the bottom of the lake.
Aiyah, a simple DNA test would have worked!
Yeah at this time it could have been used. Wasn't in the news often though.
This was 1986. I am not sure if DNA tests existed then. If they were around they were not as advanced as they are now.
@@caseyl3789 Yes DNA didn't exist then. Even in the early 90s, DNA was difficult as technicians had to visually match the DNA strands and it was long and laborious process
Lie detector was a ridiculous idea. If Wes really thought he was Jock, then his statements would not register as lies. If Wes lost his memory in the crash he could have been recalling the stuff Jock was describing when he was rambling with fever. Recalling it but not remembering that it came from Jock, he could have thought they were his own memories.
@@twc3546 No It wasn't a ridiculous idea. The Ewings thought Wes was a fraud who knew he wasn't Jock. They didnt' think he had amnesia and acquired Jock's memories.
Steve Forrest was such a great actor too - big booming voice, he was better than Jim Davis in a lot of ways... a missed opportunity. The show fumbled in those later years by introducing characters that didnt fit. Jenna, Clayton... awful characters that served no purpose but to keep Pam and Bobby apart and Miss Ellie busy.
+Dan Tee
Do you remember Clayton in the earlier episodes when Jock was still living?
Sure... Clayton should have married Sue Ellen when she divorced JR the first time.
Or married Dusty instead of Clayton...
deathtracer Miss Ellie never would have married Dusty. He was too young for that old bag.
kbirdusa, I was adding to what Dan Tee said. I'm not sure where Miss Ellie was in the conversation......
I think one reason they chose not to have Wes Parmalee be Jock was the negative reaction the recasting of Falon on Dynasty had.
Did Sue Ellen actually say "AIGHT!"
Why couldn't Parmalee have been Jock? Offhand, maybe because he had an entirely different build. What, did his whole skeleton shrink? He was so badly burned they had to build him a new face but his face doesn't have a single scar on it?
David Paulsen Messed Up Both Dallas And Dynasty Dallas Went Downhill After Bobby Returning And Season 9 Of Dynasty Losing Linda Evans (Krystle Carrington) And Having Blake Carrington Being Mean Adam Carrington Very Evil And Killing Dex It Made No Sense
Later Clayton had a chance to prove his toughness when Carter McKay was bullying his family and he didn't do much
How does "Punk" know so much about "Jocks' helicopter crash? He acts like he was on it? If he was why isn't he dead?
Punk was in South America working in the oil industry the same time, working with Jock. He wasn't on board the helicopter when it crashed.
He accompanied Jock to South America but he wasn't on the chopper when it crashed.
Why would Wes pulled such a cruel trick on him?
they originally were planing to bring Jock back..with another actor... but the entire cast protested it as did the fans. so they changed it to somone pretending to be Jock.............. one thing were not explained one being how Wes Parmalee had the same wounds as Jock from the hunting trip.
Doctors exhaimed Wes and found out he had old wounds like Jock when Jock was shot during a hunting trip.
of course JR didn't believe Wes was Jock. and even if he truely was. I guess JR never heared of plastic surgery after all if you get burned in a crash chances are your not going to look like you did before the crash.
I know but Jock was a very personal matter in the family especially towards J.R. who idolizes his father ever since he was born.
He really thought he was Jock then his memory came back and he knew he wasn’t
This was the season they show Dallas The Early Years.
I sort of wish they had let Wes Parmalee be Jock, but I'm glad they didn't and allow Jim Davis' character to Rest in Peace. He was the only one, IMO who could be Jock Ewing.
This had to be one of the worst storylines ever in a TV show. They tried to bring back Jock Ewing and it failed miserably. They wrote Parmalee off as an imposter after viewer reaction was unfavorable.
The Western attire; No where but TEXAS, Men and women dressed!!!!
You could tell that the writers had started to run out storylines. 😂
I wish i had a family and a farm like that
It's a ranch, not a farm!