my art school teacher used to say: without all those people using film, making it a profitable industry, there would be no film for us. so let's hope many many people keep that industry alive. long live the hype, long live film.
Bravo! I spent my whole life working as a product photographer and pro photolab printer/processor. I am now 70, and listening to you made me smile. You hit the nail on the head with your discussion, so much ill informed opinions in photography today, so much nonsense. I now retired and have a nice big studio and darkroom, and my pleasure in life is teaching people to develop and print, from beginner to expert, and by expert I mean having the experience to understand how to get the most out of a negative. I have some younger clients who still have me do their portfolio prints, which is gratifying. Film is still relevant in modern photography, and many people shoot film and digitise for editing, which works well and gives a good result. We were shooting 10x8 ektachrome for high end automotive shoots way into the digital era because it made the cars look more desirable. I have subscribed, and look forward to viewing more of your work.
Wow, 8x10 auto. Legendary. I used to love to talk to the auto art directors who would go on location all over the world. Talking about sunrise in Morocco vs Spain, etc. Teaching is a gift. Glad to hear.
What a genius move of RUclips to drop me this video after I watched the trillionth video about a youtuber with a beard talking about his new "these ones are getting harder to find" rare medium format camera and showing one of the most mediocre images ever. I was thinking like "Am I the only asshole in the room to see that RUclips is full of this clones of hipsters sitting at their clean minimalistic 'Ow I better put that book in the background so they see" desk with the EXACT same lightning on their face and background, talking about cameras and not showing any above average images that would not even upstage your usual iPhone photo or even images at all?" Yes, I needed to get that of my chest. I can breath again. Thanks to you.
Well, they are catering to an audience and building following. That is what they know. The photography part takes too much time, typically, for anyone these days to really invest, especially those on YT. You simply can't produce good work a fast rate.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I totally get that. And I absorb the (limited) tech info I occasionally get out of them. But it makes me giggle inside. Followers praising their images through the roof. Or fellow vloggers dropping by for a quick "You scratched my back, now I'll scratch your back" disguised as a genuine comment. It's gets bloated, styled and pretend. Which made your video such a breath (or storm) of fresh air. Can't wait for episode 002. Don't hold back.
Wow! This is amazing information! Finally, a authentic, honest and transparent voice on Photography. A no B.S. guy. How refreshing. We've had our differences, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for Daniel.
Just subscribed to your channel because of the blunt way you spoke about this. I am not a photographer, not even amateur level. I am just a family guy interested in learning about photography with no filters or ideology.
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been caught in this Film-RUclips-fueled rush to buy tons of different film cameras mostly motivated by mediocre photographers who happen to have high subscribers. But lately I've been sticking to one body and one lens it's allowed me to focus on what this is all supposed to be about, the images.
I’m so glad a stumbled on this video. I’m now a subscriber. Please keep making content about film and film photography because it’s finally nice to listen and learn from someone who has actual experience and knowledge from years in the industry. Thank you!
Making me rethink my channel with that little talk. Haha refreshing take on the RUclips world. I’m guilty of it for sure and I’m fresh enough where I can fix my ways before I’m lost forever. Looking forward to the next one of these!
As a millennial who got roped into film with the hipster/nostalgic youtubers, this was a fascinating listen and I can't wait to hear more from a legitimate professional. I myself have really paired down my fascination on gear and am currently committed to exclusively shooting with the 40mm lens I have on my Leica M4-2. Improvement is coming slowly but I believe my ability to compose an image will better for it in the long run
I felt like I was back in 1991 listening to my photography mentor. This is a refreshing video to find in the RUclips photography ecosphere. Please keep making this kind of video!
I thoroughly loved this! You broke down the film v. digital debate to the true facts, with a unique and informed perspective as a pro in the industry for years. As an amateur/enthusiast photographer, I have been shooting film 90% of the time for the past few years, because 1) I love the end result (mostly a bnw shooter), and 2) I thoroughly enjoy the process. I love using all manual film cameras that I've bought off eBay for less than $100 that are often smaller, lighter, and easier to use compared to their digital counterpart, not to mention extremely less expensive. Taking my time, manually adjusting the dials to get a "right," or wrong exposure is so much more rewarding then auto everything because I feel like I'm actually making something, even if it comes out like trash. I took the time to learn the craft, something I will keep learning my entire life. Likewise, self-developing my negatives truly makes me feel like I'm contributing to the whole process from start to finish. I'm not a pro, I don't have clients to serve so I have no concerns about "sharpness" or the perceived costs of film, it's purely for my own joy. As someone in their early 30s, while I grew up with film end product, I didn't appreciate film cameras in their day, other than polaroids, in a sense I'm "revisiting" film, and I love it.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 No thank you. There are not many sources of actual photography knowledge on YT, it all gear reviews, affiliate links, and SquareSpace. Refreshing to hear someone just talk about the work.
I was just yesterday explaining to an older photographer I've had the fortune to assist and learn from, that I, as a kid (well, I'm 30) coming up with digital in this age, had interesting opportunities while I also missed out on some important things. I learned taking photos firing 2000 rounds on AV, then sifting through the photos in Lightroom to see if any of them turned out, celebrating myself when I found a decent photo. While that's a great way to develop a distinguishing eye for what looks good and what doesn't, it's not really image-making. I've felt happy to rediscover photography through film and learn a bunch of stuff that I wasn't really learning with digital. It's like you say, the charm is in the limitation. Thanks for a really entertaining and informative video, looking forward to more.
I did the same with digital. When it arrived it came with overshooting at epic levels. Good photographers have tappered off to some degree but you still see people coming back with 10,000's of images and think "why?"
Thanks! This was probably the most helpful film video I've encountered. I got into photography in high school and college, switched to film after dropping out of journalism school because I wasn't using my DSLR as much, and then picked the hobby back up 8 years later after losing bike racing as a hobby. It's been a weird world to get back into as film got back into style unbeknownst to me. There's definitely a lot of videos I've encountered on here that seem focused on chasing Instagram likes.
IG and the rest of social are nothing but pure poison in my mind. Designed to addict, designed to exploit human vulnerability, designed to destroy free will, designed to manipulate and yet pretty much every single photographer I know makes excuse after excuse for why they continue to use the platforms. WE are the problem. Yet another reason why I have little interest in the photography world.
Dan, I've been following your channel for a while but for whatever reason, this video passed me by but showed up at the right time. Like you, I shoot Fujifilm digitally and film from time-to-time for personal artistic work. I've been having this conversation, not to the detail you did in this video, with some fellow photographers who started with digital, got interested in film but know nothing about film other than what they've learned on RUclips. I sent this video to all of them today. Thanks for your insight and the "films" you load on RUclips sir.
I got alot out of this one Dan! Love the long rants.. packed with tips and truths! I've been shooting nothing but film for 2 yrs and sold my digital gear off. It was the best creative choice I have made for the work I like to make. I I especially found the 'box speed' info interesting. Look forward to the next one.
I really enjoyed hearing your perspective, thanks. It's really interesting to hear from someone with your experience in the industry, especially as someone who went through the huge changes of the last couple of decades. Fwiw I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in being an amateur. I don't think that's what you meant, I am just saying that a lot of us hobbyists know full well that is what we are and are fine with it. I would even go so far as to say that being a hobbyist doesn't mean you can't produce work that matters, it's just that our audience is going to be tiny! I also wouldn't be too down on RUclipsrs who don't know all the details of film. If you grew up photographically in the age of digital and didn't have the funds to study photography at uni; or you're making RUclips videos about your hobby, there's no reason you would know everything. I grew up in the film era but didn't get serious about photography until a few years ago,so everything - film and digital - is a huge learning curve for me. But I also love my day job and have no desire to chuck it all in to work client briefs as a pro. Hipster is such a vague term that I don't know if the people I follow on RUclips are the same people you refer to, but one of the lovely things about photography is how accessible it is, and therefore the variety of people who can talk about it on RUclips. For example, box speed. I have heard old hands on Photrio and FADU say similar things to you about it, but also plenty of people who just use box speed. If you are buying a film that says ISO 400 on it, are you going to take a gamble that one of the dozens of disagreeing people on fora are right, or trust the company who engineered it? I suppose what I am getting at is that people have all sorts of rational reasons for different approaches. That got very rambly, thanks for reading all the way to the end!
The best I took away from this is "It just doesn't matter". I am keen on film and digital having started photography in 1975 reasonably seriously. All the things you say about film are true but I am just happy to see people embracing photography whether it's film,digital, iphone,pinhole,holga,polaroid etc.. In reality the best negatives are arguably the old glass plate ones.The detail in those pics is amazing.That would slow us down a bit.Almost to meditation speed.Thanks for creating content. It does stimulate thinking.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks Daniel. I particularly am a big fan of Darius and Tabitha Kinsey. I have a big coffee table book of their work which is amazing.I think I will do a book review on it soon.The technology they used was mainly glass plates with massive cameras and tripods.
This is pure inspiration. Thanks! I am an old man (well, 45) getting into photography. Just bought myself a Fujifilm X-T4, not to have any gear excused. If my photos are poor, I cannot blame the gear, only myself. I will try to implement your ideas to digital, e.g. sticking to one film simulation at a specific ISO. I think that is bound to be a wise limitation. Keep rocking!
It goes against what the photo forums and reviewers say, but you’ll get the best colours, tonality and noise if you use the lowest possible ISO and try to get the exposure right in camera (as much as the highlight latitude allows you to)
Thanks Daniel! From a digital photographer that transitioned into film 2 years ago then back to digital due to quarantine and the inability to access labs in my area, I gotta say that learning the ropes of film has totally changed my digital process and workflow. Regardless of the medium, photography is amazing and I love both (though my Bessa R is glaring at me right now).
I think a lot of the film experts transitioned to digital really well. Not all but many. There was a multi-year period of wild overshooting, even the celebration of that overshooting. It was odd but has since tapered off.
I needed to hear that! I shot all those films you mentioned in the 80s and 90s. After that I focused on life as an art director. Now I'm returning to my passion, still have many of those in the freezer, including Panatomic-X (my BW passion). It was so nice to hear you, brought SO MANY good memories back, man! Thanks!! Stimulating! I'm having a hard time finding the right things to rebuild my darkroom, but things are on the right track, My F2 and F3 are ready. You've no idea how much it was stimulating to hear this. My best!!
Just left you a comment but it didn't go through for some reason....hmm. Careers were made on Panatomic X. Also amazing were the papers available which all had heavy metals so it was an environmental tradeoff. Glad you found something worthy.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 sure! That was incredible. A 32 ASA film that had grain and tones not competing with each other. How I loved it. Hope the ones on the freezer do well when I decide to use them. I'm from Brazil, darkroom materials are hard to find but I'm working on rebuilding my home lab with quality materials. I'm impressed by how many things vanished! Well, we have to deal with whaat we have and do our best to take the most of it. I've the same vision on many points. I see people today don't know what they're doing. They don't undestand liight, they shoot 1000 pictures on a day and believe that's photography. In my opinion that's editing, no photography. I'm an Art Director, I've heard many times "photographers" say "later we fix that on Photoshop" - whatever it is, from bokeh to background colors, composition, focus, you name it. ABSURD! As you said it's much easier to take three shots right. But you have to KNOW what you're doing. And many know the equipment, the techniques, but lack the vision. I follow thw Ansel Adams school: visualiza what you want and work to get to it. Daniel, pleased to meet you! I've already subscribed to your channel. I'll watch you videos and sometimes hope to have the pleasure to exchange ideas, vision, concepts with you again, ok? My best!
Daniel Milnor a note: Fuji RDP is still relatively widely available, in its third revision, known as Provia 100F. It’s pushing abilities are, I assume, even better now with the technological advancements. I’ve pushed it two stops and indeed it looks amazing, clean shadows with no shifts
Excellent rant. I'm not a photographer, but I repaired cameras for 25 years and met a lot of camera owners across the spectrum. The conclusion I came to was that amateur photographers cared mostly about the equipment, while the pro photographer cared mostly about the image. All that mattered was the image. And selling it, presumably.
so many truths within. i went film to digital and back to film again (gutted I sold my M6/50cron/35lux in 2002 i shot my kids birth with). happy to have a MP and pentax67 for life...well as long as film is still available. I love shooting film and even really enjoy dev at home but just hated the scanning process. now using a mirrorless+macro to digitize with a Negative Supply 35mm holder which feeds a full uncut roll. love it! yes, i still have a digital SL for projects that require a faster turn around and even an x100v that i use like a sketch book for ideas but the passion is still the organic feel of film. subscribed and looking forward to more long form rants
Ya, that's a smart move. I've not yet copied digi cam but it makes sense. Great scanners are SO expensive, hard to find, slow and very difficult to get repaired.
Daniel Milnor totally. Had a pakon when they first got to consumers in maybe 6 or 7 years ago for $200 and sold it a few years later when they were going for $1500-2000 mainly cuz I was afraid of when not if it would die. With this feeder/holder, I just upgrade the digital camera ;)
I feel like I get so much more from Dan’s interviews and films than I do from other photography channels that are so hyper-focused on gear and gear reviews. Gear reviews have their place but you can only watch so many reviews of a $5,000 camera you don’t ever plan to buy. None of that stuff inspires action. They’re done by RUclips vloggers for other RUclips vloggers. It’s these videos that inspire me to get moving on my projects, take them seriously, and go shoot another roll.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Hah, I'm 32! Old enough to shoot film on vacations as a kid, young enough to rediscover it as an adult. I know a lot of people obsessing over gear & fetishizing film without a real project in mind.
One of your most interesting video. Been shooting film for about three years, and you are right you mentioned stuff no-one mentions. Please do more film videos, on anything, I don’t care.
Great Video as always Dan. I bought my first film camera 8 years ago to go with some Canon FD lenses I was using on mirrorless at the time. Figured why not have the option as I have the lenses? Messed up my first roll as I had no real knowledge. Got a second roll successfully shot, but put film aside for a while. Then after learning more on digital, I went back to try film about 5 years ago as an experiment, had a bit of fun but only shot a couple of rolls here and there. When I realized how easy it was, now that I knew more about exposure and photography, I've been shooting film exclusively in my own time for the last 3 and a half years. I've now shot about 110 rolls of film in many formats with a handful of cameras. I've narrowed down my preferred films to Ilford Delta and Kodak Ultramax and I mostly shoot just one camera and one lens (Canon P Rangefinder and a 35mm lens) on a daily basis. And I've been developing black and white for 2 years now. I've learnt a hell of a lot from my mistakes, but I'm still learning and having fun. Hopefully will put together a blurb zine soon. Looking forward to your next video!
Way to go. I would use WAY more film if I was spending my time working on my own projects but have very little time for that these days. And logistics are challenging. Zine is a good move.
Very interesting video. It made me realize I’m most interested in the cameras, the mechanical/physical part of the film world than in the actual picture taking. I’ve been thinking about this for a long time, probably a couple of years, and you just made me realize that I’m right about it. The good thing about this is that it doesn’t really matter because it’s not my profession, I can goof around all I want with interesting medium/large format gear dating back to the XIX century, modding cameras and lenses, designing backs for instant formats and such, without caring a lot if I’m “doing it right” or if I’m being “professional” about the final result, my pictures. It’s a great thing to have film photography as a huge hobby rather than living off it. But I do see your point regarding “professional” photographers (they love to be called that way) whom don’t really know what they’re doing or why but they love to pretend they know everything.
You are not alone. There are considerably more people interested in the equipment than actual photography. Always been this way but even more so now with Internet. Data don't lie. Nothing wrong with it. I love cycling and think the bicycle is one of the most important inventions of all time.
Thank you for being honest. I realized the same thing, it’s like a love for pretty, tactile machinery… but I am serious about my photos too. Realizing why I am interested in gear and accepting it allowed me to forgive myself for GAS and I began to treat my love for cameras separately from my love for photography, so that the former is not confused with the latter.
One of the best nostalgia trips I'll go on this year... Twenty years since I shot film daily (on a newspaper), and now Mr Milnor tells me why Tmax3200 was rubbish shooting dimly lit football night games in Northern England. I believed the box...& got thin negs. Y'see, always learning. Excellent video Mr M.
Most (or all) of the corrections for digital shots you've mentioned are part of what ACR/Lightroom and C1 do nowadays, so it should no longer be a problem. Bur very interesting story, and it shows how much know-how was actually present in professional film processing labs (and luckily still is), that people weren't aware of "back then".
Great video, Daniel! Everything you just said, I've been saying (sometimes ranting) to other photographers since 1999!! I almost forgot about good old EPP, we went through thousands of rolls of that stuff at the studio where I worked back in the 90's.
It was SO odd that THE film companies tried to emulate more than any other was EPP. Technically, there was nothing good about that film. Wasn't a true 100. Didn't have fine grain. Didn't have high saturation. Could not be pushed. But the combo of ingredients was unique.
Totally with you here in regard to the how vs why. My biggest gripe with the RUclips and Instagram photographer community pushing their 'zines is it's always because of the 'how' (film) and almost never the 'why' (artist's intent, artist's purpose, etc). Thanks for putting it out there.
Well, I they are catering to a crowd. Whatever the crowd eats they will serve. Same for all social. It's about popularity. And once you make the deal you have to roll with what the masses want. It's just a boring conversation if you are possessed by the final product.
as a younger film photographer who cannot personally relate to a lot of the history/transition youre talking about -- thank you. I really needed to hear this and it has definitely aided in my thought process and overall creative workflow
Thanks for this video - really enjoyed watching it. I fell in love with photography as a teenager and it was never about the film or the lens or the camera. It was about the feeling of imagining how a scene/subject would look and trying to capture that... and that feeling of seeing if I had done it or not when I saw the resulting image. Somewhere along the way it became more about the stuff I was using to capture images (it was never 100% about that but there were periods where I definitely became distracted by it). In those times the joy I experienced from photography waned. Digital definitely hurt my love of photography. In fact it's been 20 years since I shot film and I so wish I'd seen this video before I made the switch. It's only in the last few months that I've swung back and have begun to reconnect with what I loved about it back as a teen. Running my first roll of Tri-X through my camera at the moment and immediately switched it to 250 :-)
It's like assembling a puzzle. Things that trigger our creativity or brain paths. It can come and go, like film, but whatever you need....keep looking for it.
I’m new to photography been a about a year now. Bought a sony a6000 then got hooked. So down the rabbit hole of photography ordering books buying every documentary i could get my hands on. Even pulled up old courses and class lessons i could find on google. With that being said i bought 3 35mm film cameras just got a rangefinder. I bought them for learning experience in the sense you got to know your roots. I do enjoy shooting the film portra 400 for me . But lol the hipster film culture is to insane for me all them flannels and beanies and deep Confucius quotes..love the video subbed , it will be good ganing some knowledge from you .
No Confucius quotes from me. And it's too hot for a beanie. And I have no tattoos and no drone so no chance I'm gonna fit in that crowd. I do have a van however...
This was really sobering. I became serious about photography about 2 years ago. I loved taking pictures all my life, though but I had no idea what I was doing. I found the community to be seriously toxic and sophicating and I never realised why until recently. It's because the community right now is run by gear heads rather than real photographers like yourself. It says a lot it is when I started looking up real photographers like Bresson or Robert Frank that RUclips algorithm started recommending the likes of you and Sean Tucker and Ted Forbes. Thank you.
The truth is that online photography is mostly about conning people. And some folks are really good at it. It's not a malicious con or anything dangerous. It's just a numbers game promoted by the brands and the people willing to shill just about anything for anyone. And then you realize they don't really know anything about photography and you can move on. I love cycling but don't talk about bikes much. I love birding but don't talk about my binoculars. I love writing but don't fixate on the pen.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 this is precisely why I'm thankful people like you are taking this platform to speak about real photography. I've been listening to your interviews on different channels almost daily in the past week and it was really eye opening. To have real photographers tell you about the reality of photography in an age where people with millions in following label themselves as professional photographers and all they talk about is how to make your photos more moody in photoshop or how to take "banger shots" is a real blessing.
You found your way into my RUclips feed and I’m glad you did. Glad to hear someone dropping some true wisdom about film photography. You have a new subscriber. ☮️✌🏾
Every time I watch this video, I not only get inspired to shoot, but learn more. I first developed film in 1960 and to this day, the smell of fix reminds me of those days. You are so right, it is not just the look I get from film, portra and 3200 in 645, I love the process and making every shot count. It makes me craft every image, not just blast away and chimp. My question is with portra you indicate shoot at 100 and push process 2 stops. Do you mean meter at 100 and develop for 400, 2 stops higher, ie, normal? With 3200 film, would you meter at 1250 and process at 3200?
I don't shoot Portra that way but many of the photogs in Los Angeles did that. This was during my time at Kodak Professional. Nobody seemed to shoot Portra at box speed, and I mean nobody. I rate it at 250 and process normal. And yes, I rate TMAX 3200 at 1250-2000 range and then process for 3200.
fantastic Daniel, i have been itching to get back to film photography, the only thing holding me back is the cost of processing.I may look into learning the basics of black and white processing as i mainly shoot black and white with my nikon d3 and 50mm lens, i think you put your arguments over very well and thank you ,very imformative, best wishes and be safe. Jeff
thanks Dan, been waiting to hear your talk on this for a while ....great knowledge and thoughts it was fascinating to me .to listen you .. ... some food thought for sure ...
Man can I say as an artist who studied fine arts from 2000 - 2004 ... I learnt the beautiful zen of processing BW (and colour) and the endless frustration of the darkroom (for me)... Now as an artist who has done global Shows and books I can only continue to create if I’m shooting film ... I need the organic nature of creativity (for me). I understand light with film , can pre vis the print with film , the organic nature links to my meditation and spiritual practice... Your a good soul Daniel (love your glasses as well) , a real soul and one who understands that we are all just vibrational energy moving from one state to the next ! NB; Plus I Was the guy long ago who told you about ticks on northern beaches of Sydney, AU 🙏 Lyme disease is a dirty little secret that Australian doctor say..”it doesn’t exist here”... it does exist here in Australia
Markus, I REMEMBER you and I remember that conversation. And yes, the Oz medical world tries to downplay Lyme and has from the beginning. I've spoken to many folks who are suffering and apparently they made it difficult on doctors if they even admit Lyme patients. I too love film. But much of what i shoot today isn't really worthy of the time and logistics of film. I rarely ever get to work on projects these days, so mosts of what I shoot is filler or just valuable for my other work purposes.
This is great Dan, could listen to you for hours. Refreshing to hear someone who knows what they're talking about. Would be curious to hear you dive deeper into what needs to be done with film scans (I don't know what I'm doing so I just do what I do in the darkroom in Lightroom) & what role Photography school /BA/ BJ / ASSISTING plays these days!
Scanning is an art form. The good news is that labs do it well these days. The bad news, most good scanners are so outrageously priced they are prohibitive for most. And they are finicky, need to be calibrated/repaired fairly regularly. You can use your digi cam to copy negs. I'll try to work these questions into a new Q&A.
Hi Daniel ! This is my new favorite channel :) fantastic speech! Thank you and please make many more videos on this matter. I could listen to you forever. So insightful. I especially like your comments on film iso rating and I am interested in your view of how much to pull each film (best ASA) and then at what ASA you should tell the lab to process it. I shoot portra400, E100 (sorry) and Ilford3200.
Andri. I rarely pulled film. Most of the time if I was tweaking a film it would be with push. Rating TRI-X at 640 or PKL at 500 or TMZ at 5000. Most of the time however, to save money, I would rate a film like TRI-X at 320 or 250 depending, then process normal.
Awesome vid! Just bought myself a film camera and it has completely rejuvenated my love for photography. I have been playing around with all sorts of film just to see which I like the best... but you recommend just sticking with one eh? Or maybe once I find a film that I like?
Oh ya. Both the baggage machine, a CTX5000 which will fry your film on first pass and the inside scanners which will gradually begin to base fog your film. Lead bags, hand inspection and be polite. Also know TSA is untrained in any of this and will tell you all kinds of misinformation.
I worked in the CTX Vault in ATL ... 12 machines .. batteries will trigger a “Fail Safe” more than anything.This was before I new anything about photography. (Still clueless)...I’m considering 4x5 ... scary .Thanks!. The long term project would be to photograph ladies over the age of 40 in South America. It’s amazing how good they look. I think Blurb would be a good start for a test mag... 40+ Magazine. I apologize for the barrage of questions... Thanks for your contribution. May I share your video to a few groups... ? I will bug you later about fly fishing... my Oyster rod is ready...peace.
Well, you got me interested. I'm a newbie in film photography, I must say. Dunno if I'm a hipster though, I just like the somewhat "simplicity" of that. I was shooting tri-x pushed and developed at 800-1600. You were saying that it's designed for like 250-320. So, what does that mean. Should I measure and shoot it like it's 250 let's say and develop it at the same value, or what? Could you elaborate more on that subject in another video? Regards from Poland.
You can push TRI-X to 800 pretty easily. Anything past that gets a bit contrasty for my liking but it will also depend on how you develop. I rate it at 250 or 320 depending then process normal.
Kodak DCS... wow! When I worked for The Palm Beach Post we had an original model Kodak DCS with the Data Storage Unit. It was... different. The only time I know we used it was for the fireworks/demolition on New Year's Eve of the old county courthouse. We had to extend the paper's deadline to get the pictures in. The DCS images weren't usable - the fireworks were all purple from what I remember (not blaming the camera - digital was still a strange, new frontier) but the rolls of film dropped to me on the roof of the newspaper building from the photographer in the helicopter that was hovering over me were fine. Now it's "Stand by, I'll FTP these to you from my cell phone's hot spot and you'll have them before we land." Man, I miss the newspaper days. Still in the middle of watching your video. Fujichrome 100, we shot that at The Post (with a little hand-processed C-41 film from what I remember) until we eventually switched to Ektapress C-41 films, nice because the processing was so fast, not an hour like with the E-6, which a more user-friendly loading process and even the chemical mixing process. The Ektapress films were pretty nice but no comparison to RDP though. And of course it's all digital there now. (And never mind the layoffs, very sad.) nikonrumors.com/2013/04/09/interview-with-kodaks-lead-engineer-on-the-early-nikon-based-kodak-dcs-cameras.aspx/
Oh my GOD. The helicopter story, to normal people, would seem crazy but to US it just seems like a Tuesday. The news industry in general was so interesting, so much madness. My press pass got me into so many places I should never have been. And got me shot at, got me rammed by a car and get me held at gunpoint. Such fun. I remember the Ektapress ads. The glory years!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Incidental to all this, I just got my first MagCloud magazine test about 15 minutes ago. Not a test of an actual publication, just color charts, a few photos, etc. so I can work out settings in Photoshop. I'm impressed with the quality and the price. I'd never thought of doing any kind of self-published magazine until I saw your video about it. Good inspiration!
Newbie question ... So if I shoot Tri-X with ISO250-320 I still develop it as ISO400? Can I still use yellow filters if I shoot with lower ISO? Or maybe I should not use a filter?
Hot Damn! I learned sooo much from your video, especially the actual film speed. I would say I am an educated photographer, not a pro tho. It my extreme hobby now that I'm fully retired. I have a website, but it is mostly a travel site I keep. I grew up in film in the 70s. Then got out of photography totally. Bought my first DSLR in 2005. And now I have going back to film. It is so fun! I have 6 digital cams, 3 35mm film cams, and 2 TLRs. What I pick to shoot with is pretty much my mood, and what I am going to shoot. I am going TLR for sure now, and I would say each photo I make takes me about 5 minutes. From figuring exposure, composing, shooting, and then I record in a journal each shot and the exposure values as I have never shot FULLY analog manual TLRs before, and not using a single battery for the shot! I never talk camera specs, that's boring. I am also a retired Navy Chief, I have thick skin, you can't hurt my feelings :) I post on Flickr for fun, and never get any comments, that is OK, what somebody thinks about a photo is completely different what another would think. Cheers!
Make a magazine, leave lined pages then hand the magazine to someone you know and ask them to write their thoughts about the images on the lined pages. Then do it with a stranger. See what happens. Navy Chief. That sounds like a real job. I would have joined the Navy but it was the fortitude, strength, courage and aptitude I lacked. And I would have probably failed the drug test. Film is a blast. It really is. I wish I had better logistics because I'd be using it all the time. I am, finally, learning to love the digital side of things but it's a different experience.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 believe me, I was sweating the urinalysis test ... I went in when I was 31, very long hair, bell bottoms, and big ol boots. They had fun with me.
Man... This video was superb... I started film photography back in the mid 90s... Some of the stuff you were talking about I recognized too, some was an eye opener. If possible, like to hear what you have to say more on film ISO... In photo school we were taught to generally shoot at box speed. I knew about Portra being able to be shot at about 1 stop over but not really at 100 and being developed normal for the most part. I just bought some Portra 400 this past weekend and going to give it a go at 100. Love your channel 🙏✌️
Most of the Portra at 100 with push folks were portrait, fashion and celebrity portrait folks who wanted creamy skin tone. They never taught us about film speed either, in my PJ school.
Film has a heel and a toe, what's not to like? I've shot a lot of P3200, and I'm glad they brought it back. I'd also like to see BW400CN revived. My time is to valuable to do scut work, paying lab costs and hiring a pro retoucher, makes economic sense. It's interesting to find out that film is still acceptable to agencys today-good to know info. It always amazes me that people don't do tests. They are easy to do, and don't cost much. After testing you know what YOUR personal ISO, customized to the way YOU work. Unfortunately most people want to be spoon fed.
Testing is SO critical whether it be film or making books. Nothing in the art world comes on the first pass, everything is via revision. 400CN! Wow. I'd forgotten about that.
Geez, you got the whole Hipster thing 100% correct! And I hate this stupid notion that’s been starting to circulate that because it’s shot in film it’s better....Instagram is just mostly of unthoughtful crap I shoot film because Mostly because you can’t make a digital file look like a true back and white film image
I was trying to make that point at the beginning and end. I see so much work being hyped due to it being made on film, only to see the work and think "Okay, maybe the photographer just doesn't know what constitutes good photography." However, conversations about film are good, so the positive outweighs any negative.
Excellent points- got my start on my grandfathers FT-QL and printing in the dark room. One thing tho- and please correct me if I’m wrong, but EPP is Kodak Ektachrome? The way you were speaking made it sound, to me, like it was another company who made EPP.
So much sense in all that Dan, I started when there was only film and have been through digital and come back to film but will use either depending on what I am shooting and why. Great post.
So good, lots of gold nuggets in this. One very good tip he gave, develop your own B&W film! And when you do, use a wetting agent in the final process so you don't get water spots because if you don't use it, you'll get spots. Kodak Photo Flo for example is a wetting agent that will do the job and is cheap as chips. Developing B&W film yourself is inexpensive, not difficult, interesting and fun.
I always dump all my rolls in a big plastic see through bag when I travel. From Myanmar to China they were happy to give me a hand check because customs loved seeing my cameras haha. The bag makes their live easier and a smile always helps too. Also keep on rambling, Daniel. Always love photography ramblings. :)
Same for me, most of the time. TSA is like "Hey, that's film, how great is that?" On the flipside you now see customs forms with "Do you have more than 12 rolls of film," and if so they try to nail you for importing or trying to sell. They also don't understand that most pros don't shoot film and the guy next to you in line with the iPhone who is streaming live and posting nonstop is the one most taking advantage.
Lisa W I know the video you are talking about. But it’s the new CT scanners that you have to worry about. They make a 3D scan of the contents of your bag and are 100 times stronger. Kodak and Ilford released a new protocol for them. And besides. If your photograph earn you money you just don’t want to risk it. Even with the old ones.
Saw this back in late 90’s while I was using 810 Polaroid and 120 b&w & positive stock. Have now moved to digital and like the poster mentioned use it as I have any camera - making sure it’s in the can .. with my past film photography it was not always 100% guaranteed to have the image but as long as the kit was in working order the photograph was there after processing. Now digital allows for checking if you’re unsure but I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of is it there is it not. Just a way of thinking over a very long time in a varied career and life. Digital or film or wet plates whichever you feel is suitable for your practice, art or hobby.
Thank you so much Dan, loving your videos great info and entertaining! along with my D810 I have two OM1’s, and always wondered why my frames came back slightly under exposed, is that because I don’t know what I’m doing and set the camera to 400 when using tri-x then ? And your ten roll film cases, do you sell them?
Regarding your OM1 (fantastic little camera!), what battery do you use for it? It was designed to operate on a 1.35v battery (mercury) that pretty much stays at a constant voltage until it fails. These batteries aren’t produced anymore. If your battery is alkaline it starts at 1.5v or 1.55v and declines with use. So it could be providing too much voltage, too little, or just the right amount depending on where it is in the voltage curve.
You have a few options: - Use the WeinCell MRB625 replacement battery for PX625/PX13. This is designed as a drop-in replacement for the OM-1, and even says so on the packaging. - Get 1.3V hearing-aid batteries from the drug store. They fit and work. - Use readily-available 1.5V lithium cells, but learn to read the meter as off or trick the camera by setting the ISO down by two stops. (That is, if you're using ISO 100 film, set it to 25; if you're using ISO 400, set it to 100.) - Get an adapter which converts 1.5V to 1.35V, like MR-9 Battery Adapter for Film Camera & Exposure Meter.
M S thank you so much for taking the time to comment, it is very much appreciated and very welcome information which I will put to immediate use! I love using film, just hope it stays around for us to enjoy!
Kevin Cull awesome, I just got an OM-1 and OM-2 myself so I had the info on hand 😊 Film is having such a revival, I’m sure it will never go away! Enjoy shooting!
my art school teacher used to say: without all those people using film, making it a profitable industry, there would be no film for us. so let's hope many many people keep that industry alive. long live the hype, long live film.
"Nobody knows anything" the truest statement on RUclips.
Me especially.....
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I feel like Uncle Dano knows a few things.
Bravo! I spent my whole life working as a product photographer and pro photolab printer/processor. I am now 70, and listening to you made me smile. You hit the nail on the head with your discussion, so much ill informed opinions in photography today, so much nonsense. I now retired and have a nice big studio and darkroom, and my pleasure in life is teaching people to develop and print, from beginner to expert, and by expert I mean having the experience to understand how to get the most out of a negative. I have some younger clients who still have me do their portfolio prints, which is gratifying. Film is still relevant in modern photography, and many people shoot film and digitise for editing, which works well and gives a good result. We were shooting 10x8 ektachrome for high end automotive shoots way into the digital era because it made the cars look more desirable. I have subscribed, and look forward to viewing more of your work.
Wow, 8x10 auto. Legendary. I used to love to talk to the auto art directors who would go on location all over the world. Talking about sunrise in Morocco vs Spain, etc. Teaching is a gift. Glad to hear.
What a genius move of RUclips to drop me this video after I watched the trillionth video about a youtuber with a beard talking about his new "these ones are getting harder to find" rare medium format camera and showing one of the most mediocre images ever. I was thinking like "Am I the only asshole in the room to see that RUclips is full of this clones of hipsters sitting at their clean minimalistic 'Ow I better put that book in the background so they see" desk with the EXACT same lightning on their face and background, talking about cameras and not showing any above average images that would not even upstage your usual iPhone photo or even images at all?" Yes, I needed to get that of my chest. I can breath again. Thanks to you.
Well, they are catering to an audience and building following. That is what they know. The photography part takes too much time, typically, for anyone these days to really invest, especially those on YT. You simply can't produce good work a fast rate.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I totally get that. And I absorb the (limited) tech info I occasionally get out of them. But it makes me giggle inside. Followers praising their images through the roof. Or fellow vloggers dropping by for a quick "You scratched my back, now I'll scratch your back" disguised as a genuine comment. It's gets bloated, styled and pretend. Which made your video such a breath (or storm) of fresh air. Can't wait for episode 002. Don't hold back.
Wow! This is amazing information! Finally, a authentic, honest and transparent voice on Photography. A no B.S. guy. How refreshing. We've had our differences, but I have a tremendous amount of respect for Daniel.
So much knowledge in one video. I learned a lot of valuable information from this one video. Thank you so much!
8 minutes plus in -- I love it. I'll subscribe. Looking forward to following. Best wishes.
Ha, thank you. Good old film.
Holy cow. You've just convinced me to pull my film camera off the dusty shelf. I appreciate the film processing suggestions.
Dainel. Loved your presentation. I can tell your heart is in it. The best 35 minutes I have spent on RUclips in a long time. Thank you.
Just subscribed to your channel because of the blunt way you spoke about this. I am not a photographer, not even amateur level. I am just a family guy interested in learning about photography with no filters or ideology.
This is exactly what I needed to hear. I've been caught in this Film-RUclips-fueled rush to buy tons of different film cameras mostly motivated by mediocre photographers who happen to have high subscribers. But lately I've been sticking to one body and one lens it's allowed me to focus on what this is all supposed to be about, the images.
Once you start making solid imagery and then printing those images the YT conversation will fade. My guess anyway.
Hope to see lot's more of Thoughts on Film Photography, totally love this, you are a great speaker! Cheers!
I’m so glad a stumbled on this video. I’m now a subscriber. Please keep making content about film and film photography because it’s finally nice to listen and learn from someone who has actual experience and knowledge from years in the industry. Thank you!
More on the way. Not sure when but it's coming.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Please sir, more film content... More info about box speed vs real speed would be great. I'm doing my own research though.
I really enjoy these. I can’t stick with most people on RUclips more than about 5 minutes. I’ll take the long form ramble any day
amen
Making me rethink my channel with that little talk. Haha refreshing take on the RUclips world. I’m guilty of it for sure and I’m fresh enough where I can fix my ways before I’m lost forever. Looking forward to the next one of these!
As a millennial who got roped into film with the hipster/nostalgic youtubers, this was a fascinating listen and I can't wait to hear more from a legitimate professional. I myself have really paired down my fascination on gear and am currently committed to exclusively shooting with the 40mm lens I have on my Leica M4-2. Improvement is coming slowly but I believe my ability to compose an image will better for it in the long run
Little gear is a relief. Never have to think about it. Just shoot, edit, sequence and print.
I felt like I was back in 1991 listening to my photography mentor. This is a refreshing video to find in the RUclips photography ecosphere. Please keep making this kind of video!
That was a good year....
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I was 14 that year...anyways, yes, more film content please!
I thoroughly loved this! You broke down the film v. digital debate to the true facts, with a unique and informed perspective as a pro in the industry for years. As an amateur/enthusiast photographer, I have been shooting film 90% of the time for the past few years, because 1) I love the end result (mostly a bnw shooter), and 2) I thoroughly enjoy the process. I love using all manual film cameras that I've bought off eBay for less than $100 that are often smaller, lighter, and easier to use compared to their digital counterpart, not to mention extremely less expensive. Taking my time, manually adjusting the dials to get a "right," or wrong exposure is so much more rewarding then auto everything because I feel like I'm actually making something, even if it comes out like trash. I took the time to learn the craft, something I will keep learning my entire life. Likewise, self-developing my negatives truly makes me feel like I'm contributing to the whole process from start to finish. I'm not a pro, I don't have clients to serve so I have no concerns about "sharpness" or the perceived costs of film, it's purely for my own joy. As someone in their early 30s, while I grew up with film end product, I didn't appreciate film cameras in their day, other than polaroids, in a sense I'm "revisiting" film, and I love it.
If you are happy and making pictures then that is what matters. Film and digital are both great but require different skills and different lifestyles.
Not even 1/8 into this video and I just became a huge fan. Preach on.
Thanks Jose. Glad you like.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 No thank you. There are not many sources of actual photography knowledge on YT, it all gear reviews, affiliate links, and SquareSpace. Refreshing to hear someone just talk about the work.
I was just yesterday explaining to an older photographer I've had the fortune to assist and learn from, that I, as a kid (well, I'm 30) coming up with digital in this age, had interesting opportunities while I also missed out on some important things. I learned taking photos firing 2000 rounds on AV, then sifting through the photos in Lightroom to see if any of them turned out, celebrating myself when I found a decent photo. While that's a great way to develop a distinguishing eye for what looks good and what doesn't, it's not really image-making. I've felt happy to rediscover photography through film and learn a bunch of stuff that I wasn't really learning with digital. It's like you say, the charm is in the limitation. Thanks for a really entertaining and informative video, looking forward to more.
I did the same with digital. When it arrived it came with overshooting at epic levels. Good photographers have tappered off to some degree but you still see people coming back with 10,000's of images and think "why?"
Thanks! This was probably the most helpful film video I've encountered. I got into photography in high school and college, switched to film after dropping out of journalism school because I wasn't using my DSLR as much, and then picked the hobby back up 8 years later after losing bike racing as a hobby. It's been a weird world to get back into as film got back into style unbeknownst to me. There's definitely a lot of videos I've encountered on here that seem focused on chasing Instagram likes.
IG and the rest of social are nothing but pure poison in my mind. Designed to addict, designed to exploit human vulnerability, designed to destroy free will, designed to manipulate and yet pretty much every single photographer I know makes excuse after excuse for why they continue to use the platforms. WE are the problem. Yet another reason why I have little interest in the photography world.
Great video, I think perhaps one of your best yet. 👍😺✅
Hey Daniel, thanks for all of this, so much valuable information. I plan to watch this again many times!
I’m so glad I found your channel. This is so underrated
Dan, I've been following your channel for a while but for whatever reason, this video passed me by but showed up at the right time. Like you, I shoot Fujifilm digitally and film from time-to-time for personal artistic work. I've been having this conversation, not to the detail you did in this video, with some fellow photographers who started with digital, got interested in film but know nothing about film other than what they've learned on RUclips. I sent this video to all of them today. Thanks for your insight and the "films" you load on RUclips sir.
Poor guys. I hope it does them good. Film and digital are lifestyles in my mind. I like both, like you.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 agreed!
You are a breath of fresh air in this industry.
I got alot out of this one Dan! Love the long rants.. packed with tips and truths! I've been shooting nothing but film for 2 yrs and sold my digital gear off. It was the best creative choice I have made for the work I like to make. I I especially found the 'box speed' info interesting. Look forward to the next one.
Hey Thomas, I would sell my digital but still using it all the time for work and mine is probably not worth much anymore...
I really enjoyed hearing your perspective, thanks. It's really interesting to hear from someone with your experience in the industry, especially as someone who went through the huge changes of the last couple of decades.
Fwiw I don't think there's anything to be ashamed in being an amateur. I don't think that's what you meant, I am just saying that a lot of us hobbyists know full well that is what we are and are fine with it. I would even go so far as to say that being a hobbyist doesn't mean you can't produce work that matters, it's just that our audience is going to be tiny!
I also wouldn't be too down on RUclipsrs who don't know all the details of film. If you grew up photographically in the age of digital and didn't have the funds to study photography at uni; or you're making RUclips videos about your hobby, there's no reason you would know everything. I grew up in the film era but didn't get serious about photography until a few years ago,so everything - film and digital - is a huge learning curve for me. But I also love my day job and have no desire to chuck it all in to work client briefs as a pro. Hipster is such a vague term that I don't know if the people I follow on RUclips are the same people you refer to, but one of the lovely things about photography is how accessible it is, and therefore the variety of people who can talk about it on RUclips. For example, box speed. I have heard old hands on Photrio and FADU say similar things to you about it, but also plenty of people who just use box speed. If you are buying a film that says ISO 400 on it, are you going to take a gamble that one of the dozens of disagreeing people on fora are right, or trust the company who engineered it? I suppose what I am getting at is that people have all sorts of rational reasons for different approaches.
That got very rambly, thanks for reading all the way to the end!
I think being an amateur is the best way. I really do. Have felt this way for over a decade.
On fire 🔥 Solid points and great insights
The best I took away from this is "It just doesn't matter". I am keen on film and digital having started photography in 1975 reasonably seriously. All the things you say about film are true but I am just happy to see people embracing photography whether it's film,digital, iphone,pinhole,holga,polaroid etc.. In reality the best negatives are arguably the old glass plate ones.The detail in those pics is amazing.That would slow us down a bit.Almost to meditation speed.Thanks for creating content. It does stimulate thinking.
Geoff Thompson I’m about to do something in regard to glass plates
@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks Daniel. I particularly am a big fan of Darius and Tabitha Kinsey. I have a big coffee table book of their work which is amazing.I think I will do a book review on it soon.The technology they used was mainly glass plates with massive cameras and tripods.
Absolute gold.
Finally someone with real experience to learn from.
Just fantastic, thank you very much sir! Greatings from Cologne, best of luck to you.
This is pure inspiration. Thanks! I am an old man (well, 45) getting into photography. Just bought myself a Fujifilm X-T4, not to have any gear excused. If my photos are poor, I cannot blame the gear, only myself. I will try to implement your ideas to digital, e.g. sticking to one film simulation at a specific ISO. I think that is bound to be a wise limitation. Keep rocking!
It goes against what the photo forums and reviewers say, but you’ll get the best colours, tonality and noise if you use the lowest possible ISO and try to get the exposure right in camera (as much as the highlight latitude allows you to)
ok, you win, I subscribed. Excellent points.
Thanks Daniel! From a digital photographer that transitioned into film 2 years ago then back to digital due to quarantine and the inability to access labs in my area, I gotta say that learning the ropes of film has totally changed my digital process and workflow. Regardless of the medium, photography is amazing and I love both (though my Bessa R is glaring at me right now).
I think a lot of the film experts transitioned to digital really well. Not all but many. There was a multi-year period of wild overshooting, even the celebration of that overshooting. It was odd but has since tapered off.
I needed to hear that! I shot all those films you mentioned in the 80s and 90s. After that I focused on life as an art director. Now I'm returning to my passion, still have many of those in the freezer, including Panatomic-X (my BW passion). It was so nice to hear you, brought SO MANY good memories back, man! Thanks!! Stimulating!
I'm having a hard time finding the right things to rebuild my darkroom, but things are on the right track, My F2 and F3 are ready.
You've no idea how much it was stimulating to hear this. My best!!
Just left you a comment but it didn't go through for some reason....hmm. Careers were made on Panatomic X. Also amazing were the papers available which all had heavy metals so it was an environmental tradeoff. Glad you found something worthy.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 sure! That was incredible. A 32 ASA film that had grain and tones not competing with each other. How I loved it. Hope the ones on the freezer do well when I decide to use them. I'm from Brazil, darkroom materials are hard to find but I'm working on rebuilding my home lab with quality materials. I'm impressed by how many things vanished! Well, we have to deal with whaat we have and do our best to take the most of it.
I've the same vision on many points. I see people today don't know what they're doing. They don't undestand liight, they shoot 1000 pictures on a day and believe that's photography. In my opinion that's editing, no photography. I'm an Art Director, I've heard many times "photographers" say "later we fix that on Photoshop" - whatever it is, from bokeh to background colors, composition, focus, you name it. ABSURD!
As you said it's much easier to take three shots right. But you have to KNOW what you're doing. And many know the equipment, the techniques, but lack the vision. I follow thw Ansel Adams school: visualiza what you want and work to get to it.
Daniel, pleased to meet you! I've already subscribed to your channel. I'll watch you videos and sometimes hope to have the pleasure to exchange ideas, vision, concepts with you again, ok? My best!
Daniel Milnor a note: Fuji RDP is still relatively widely available, in its third revision, known as Provia 100F. It’s pushing abilities are, I assume, even better now with the technological advancements. I’ve pushed it two stops and indeed it looks amazing, clean shadows with no shifts
Excellent rant. I'm not a photographer, but I repaired cameras for 25 years and met a lot of camera owners across the spectrum. The conclusion I came to was that amateur photographers cared mostly about the equipment, while the pro photographer cared mostly about the image. All that mattered was the image. And selling it, presumably.
My experience too. Same for truck guys, fishing guys, etc. Gear heads vs people who catch fish.
so many truths within. i went film to digital and back to film again (gutted I sold my M6/50cron/35lux in 2002 i shot my kids birth with). happy to have a MP and pentax67 for life...well as long as film is still available. I love shooting film and even really enjoy dev at home but just hated the scanning process. now using a mirrorless+macro to digitize with a Negative Supply 35mm holder which feeds a full uncut roll. love it! yes, i still have a digital SL for projects that require a faster turn around and even an x100v that i use like a sketch book for ideas but the passion is still the organic feel of film. subscribed and looking forward to more long form rants
Ya, that's a smart move. I've not yet copied digi cam but it makes sense. Great scanners are SO expensive, hard to find, slow and very difficult to get repaired.
Daniel Milnor totally. Had a pakon when they first got to consumers in maybe 6 or 7 years ago for $200 and sold it a few years later when they were going for $1500-2000 mainly cuz I was afraid of when not if it would die. With this feeder/holder, I just upgrade the digital camera ;)
I feel like I get so much more from Dan’s interviews and films than I do from other photography channels that are so hyper-focused on gear and gear reviews. Gear reviews have their place but you can only watch so many reviews of a $5,000 camera you don’t ever plan to buy. None of that stuff inspires action. They’re done by RUclips vloggers for other RUclips vloggers. It’s these videos that inspire me to get moving on my projects, take them seriously, and go shoot another roll.
Thanks B. I suck at gear reviews and my two fav cams are fifty years old. Not great for getting subscriptions I'm sure.
Because Dan is a PHOTOGRAPHER, not a gear collector.
Straight forward! Love or hate 2020, but so much is being revealed. Great video, subscribed!
This is EXACTLY what photographers under 37 need to hear. Cheers, Milnor!
Didn't all those famous people die at 37? No, wait, that was 27. Dude, you are free and clear!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Hah, I'm 32! Old enough to shoot film on vacations as a kid, young enough to rediscover it as an adult. I know a lot of people obsessing over gear & fetishizing film without a real project in mind.
One of your most interesting video. Been shooting film for about three years, and you are right you mentioned stuff no-one mentions. Please do more film videos, on anything, I don’t care.
On the way...
THANK YOU !!!!!!!!
Hello again, when you mentioned Kodak Portra 400 - which film do you refer? The old Portra NC/VC/UC or the new one?
Old. All those versions. I was NC guy.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Always NC! :)
Great Video as always Dan. I bought my first film camera 8 years ago to go with some Canon FD lenses I was using on mirrorless at the time. Figured why not have the option as I have the lenses? Messed up my first roll as I had no real knowledge. Got a second roll successfully shot, but put film aside for a while. Then after learning more on digital, I went back to try film about 5 years ago as an experiment, had a bit of fun but only shot a couple of rolls here and there. When I realized how easy it was, now that I knew more about exposure and photography, I've been shooting film exclusively in my own time for the last 3 and a half years. I've now shot about 110 rolls of film in many formats with a handful of cameras.
I've narrowed down my preferred films to Ilford Delta and Kodak Ultramax and I mostly shoot just one camera and one lens (Canon P Rangefinder and a 35mm lens) on a daily basis. And I've been developing black and white for 2 years now. I've learnt a hell of a lot from my mistakes, but I'm still learning and having fun. Hopefully will put together a blurb zine soon.
Looking forward to your next video!
Way to go. I would use WAY more film if I was spending my time working on my own projects but have very little time for that these days. And logistics are challenging. Zine is a good move.
Very interesting video. It made me realize I’m most interested in the cameras, the mechanical/physical part of the film world than in the actual picture taking.
I’ve been thinking about this for a long time, probably a couple of years, and you just made me realize that I’m right about it.
The good thing about this is that it doesn’t really matter because it’s not my profession, I can goof around all I want with interesting medium/large format gear dating back to the XIX century, modding cameras and lenses, designing backs for instant formats and such, without caring a lot if I’m “doing it right” or if I’m being “professional” about the final result, my pictures.
It’s a great thing to have film photography as a huge hobby rather than living off it.
But I do see your point regarding “professional” photographers (they love to be called that way) whom don’t really know what they’re doing or why but they love to pretend they know everything.
You are not alone. There are considerably more people interested in the equipment than actual photography. Always been this way but even more so now with Internet. Data don't lie. Nothing wrong with it. I love cycling and think the bicycle is one of the most important inventions of all time.
Thank you for being honest. I realized the same thing, it’s like a love for pretty, tactile machinery… but I am serious about my photos too. Realizing why I am interested in gear and accepting it allowed me to forgive myself for GAS and I began to treat my love for cameras separately from my love for photography, so that the former is not confused with the latter.
One of the best nostalgia trips I'll go on this year... Twenty years since I shot film daily (on a newspaper), and now Mr Milnor tells me why Tmax3200 was rubbish shooting dimly lit football night games in Northern England. I believed the box...& got thin negs. Y'see, always learning. Excellent video Mr M.
That film is magic but it's nowhere near a real 3200. Getting it right can be tricky because every lab seemed to have a different strategy.
Daniel Milnor even Kodak themselves in their data sheet state it’s 800-1000 ISO speed
Great video. Great content. I think you are my favorite person on youtube. Keep this videos comming. Very inspiring :)
I have followed years since the Leica File thanks for being real
At some point I will hopefully do those again...
Most (or all) of the corrections for digital shots you've mentioned are part of what ACR/Lightroom and C1 do nowadays, so it should no longer be a problem. Bur very interesting story, and it shows how much know-how was actually present in professional film processing labs (and luckily still is), that people weren't aware of "back then".
All the analog masters, labs, retouchers, etc. are the ones who are the best at digital. Go figure.
Great video, Daniel! Everything you just said, I've been saying (sometimes ranting) to other photographers since 1999!!
I almost forgot about good old EPP, we went through thousands of rolls of that stuff at the studio where I worked back in the 90's.
It was SO odd that THE film companies tried to emulate more than any other was EPP. Technically, there was nothing good about that film. Wasn't a true 100. Didn't have fine grain. Didn't have high saturation. Could not be pushed. But the combo of ingredients was unique.
Totally with you here in regard to the how vs why. My biggest gripe with the RUclips and Instagram photographer community pushing their 'zines is it's always because of the 'how' (film) and almost never the 'why' (artist's intent, artist's purpose, etc). Thanks for putting it out there.
Well, I they are catering to a crowd. Whatever the crowd eats they will serve. Same for all social. It's about popularity. And once you make the deal you have to roll with what the masses want. It's just a boring conversation if you are possessed by the final product.
as a younger film photographer who cannot personally relate to a lot of the history/transition youre talking about -- thank you. I really needed to hear this and it has definitely aided in my thought process and overall creative workflow
Matthew, you might find some of it useful. Always fun to know odd things about this world.
I could listen to you allllllll week!!!!
Holy shit Daniel! Can i spam this video everywhere? So true! Nice words. Keep going on with this topics, we need it!
could‘ve listened for another 3 hrs. awesome.
Love it! What a crazy ride it's been for the Foto world. You need to make a whole clip on crazy stories alone! Entitled "It just doesn't matter"...
Love hearing from photographers who know what they're talking about. Subscription earned 👌
Thanks for this video - really enjoyed watching it.
I fell in love with photography as a teenager and it was never about the film or the lens or the camera. It was about the feeling of imagining how a scene/subject would look and trying to capture that... and that feeling of seeing if I had done it or not when I saw the resulting image.
Somewhere along the way it became more about the stuff I was using to capture images (it was never 100% about that but there were periods where I definitely became distracted by it). In those times the joy I experienced from photography waned.
Digital definitely hurt my love of photography. In fact it's been 20 years since I shot film and I so wish I'd seen this video before I made the switch. It's only in the last few months that I've swung back and have begun to reconnect with what I loved about it back as a teen.
Running my first roll of Tri-X through my camera at the moment and immediately switched it to 250 :-)
It's like assembling a puzzle. Things that trigger our creativity or brain paths. It can come and go, like film, but whatever you need....keep looking for it.
So good! All interesting and definitely refreshing. I'll be following you along for sure. 😊
I’m new to photography been a about a year now. Bought a sony a6000 then got hooked. So down the rabbit hole of photography ordering books buying every documentary i could get my hands on. Even pulled up old courses and class lessons i could find on google. With that being said i bought 3 35mm film cameras just got a rangefinder. I bought them for learning experience in the sense you got to know your roots. I do enjoy shooting the film portra 400 for me . But lol the hipster film culture is to insane for me all them flannels and beanies and deep Confucius quotes..love the video subbed , it will be good ganing some knowledge from you .
No Confucius quotes from me. And it's too hot for a beanie. And I have no tattoos and no drone so no chance I'm gonna fit in that crowd. I do have a van however...
@@DANIELMILNOR505 re: Tattoos - I'm playing the long game and waiting for not having a single tattoo to be the "edgy" trend.
Amazing thanks for sharing
This was really sobering. I became serious about photography about 2 years ago. I loved taking pictures all my life, though but I had no idea what I was doing. I found the community to be seriously toxic and sophicating and I never realised why until recently. It's because the community right now is run by gear heads rather than real photographers like yourself. It says a lot it is when I started looking up real photographers like Bresson or Robert Frank that RUclips algorithm started recommending the likes of you and Sean Tucker and Ted Forbes. Thank you.
The truth is that online photography is mostly about conning people. And some folks are really good at it. It's not a malicious con or anything dangerous. It's just a numbers game promoted by the brands and the people willing to shill just about anything for anyone. And then you realize they don't really know anything about photography and you can move on. I love cycling but don't talk about bikes much. I love birding but don't talk about my binoculars. I love writing but don't fixate on the pen.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 this is precisely why I'm thankful people like you are taking this platform to speak about real photography. I've been listening to your interviews on different channels almost daily in the past week and it was really eye opening. To have real photographers tell you about the reality of photography in an age where people with millions in following label themselves as professional photographers and all they talk about is how to make your photos more moody in photoshop or how to take "banger shots" is a real blessing.
Your best video EVER! Thank you!
Great speech, I really appreciate your statements. I am a true film user. Looking forward to such open thoughts...
You found your way into my RUclips feed and I’m glad you did. Glad to hear someone dropping some true wisdom about film photography. You have a new subscriber. ☮️✌🏾
Thanks Eric. Just rambling on...as I tend to do.
Finally, finally the pure truth!!
Daniel, thanks!
Every time I watch this video, I not only get inspired to shoot, but learn more. I first developed film in 1960 and to this day, the smell of fix reminds me of those days. You are so right, it is not just the look I get from film, portra and 3200 in 645, I love the process and making every shot count. It makes me craft every image, not just blast away and chimp.
My question is with portra you indicate shoot at 100 and push process 2 stops. Do you mean meter at 100 and develop for 400, 2 stops higher, ie, normal? With 3200 film, would you meter at 1250 and process at 3200?
I don't shoot Portra that way but many of the photogs in Los Angeles did that. This was during my time at Kodak Professional. Nobody seemed to shoot Portra at box speed, and I mean nobody. I rate it at 250 and process normal. And yes, I rate TMAX 3200 at 1250-2000 range and then process for 3200.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thanks for the reply.
fantastic Daniel, i have been itching to get back to film photography, the only thing holding me back is the cost of processing.I may look into learning the basics of black and white processing as i mainly shoot black and white with my nikon d3 and 50mm lens, i think you put your arguments over very well and thank you ,very imformative, best wishes and be safe. Jeff
Processing film is SUPER cheap. And it's easy and fun and offers endless variety.
thanks Dan, been waiting to hear your talk on this for a while ....great knowledge and thoughts it was fascinating to me .to listen you .. ... some food thought for sure ...
Man can I say as an artist who studied fine arts from 2000 - 2004 ...
I learnt the beautiful zen of processing BW (and colour) and the endless frustration of the darkroom (for me)...
Now as an artist who has done global
Shows and books I can only continue to create if I’m shooting film ... I need the organic nature of creativity (for me).
I understand light with film , can pre vis the print with film , the organic nature links to my meditation and spiritual practice...
Your a good soul Daniel (love your glasses as well) , a real soul and one who understands that we are all just vibrational energy moving from one state to the next !
NB; Plus I
Was the guy long ago who told you about ticks on northern beaches of Sydney, AU 🙏 Lyme disease is a dirty little secret that Australian doctor say..”it doesn’t exist here”... it does exist here in Australia
Markus, I REMEMBER you and I remember that conversation. And yes, the Oz medical world tries to downplay Lyme and has from the beginning. I've spoken to many folks who are suffering and apparently they made it difficult on doctors if they even admit Lyme patients. I too love film. But much of what i shoot today isn't really worthy of the time and logistics of film. I rarely ever get to work on projects these days, so mosts of what I shoot is filler or just valuable for my other work purposes.
Daniel Milnor purchased Lab 257 a while back , terrifying stuff.
This is great Dan, could listen to you for hours. Refreshing to hear someone who knows what they're talking about. Would be curious to hear you dive deeper into what needs to be done with film scans (I don't know what I'm doing so I just do what I do in the darkroom in Lightroom) & what role Photography school /BA/ BJ / ASSISTING plays these days!
Scanning is an art form. The good news is that labs do it well these days. The bad news, most good scanners are so outrageously priced they are prohibitive for most. And they are finicky, need to be calibrated/repaired fairly regularly. You can use your digi cam to copy negs. I'll try to work these questions into a new Q&A.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thanks! It's more the software side of things I struggle with, for 35mm I use a Prime film xas which is as slow as it is good.
Hi Daniel ! This is my new favorite channel :) fantastic speech! Thank you and please make many more videos on this matter. I could listen to you forever. So insightful.
I especially like your comments on film iso rating and I am interested in your view of how much to pull each film (best ASA) and then at what ASA you should tell the lab to process it. I shoot portra400, E100 (sorry) and Ilford3200.
Andri. I rarely pulled film. Most of the time if I was tweaking a film it would be with push. Rating TRI-X at 640 or PKL at 500 or TMZ at 5000. Most of the time however, to save money, I would rate a film like TRI-X at 320 or 250 depending, then process normal.
So well spoken. I could listen to you go on and on all day long. Wait, I just did. 😏 Love you content and passion. You are the man.
I've been known to ramble.
High school first roll I developed in black and white and was done. I knew what held my passion from that day forward
That seems to be a common affliction. Same for me.
Awesome vid! Just bought myself a film camera and it has completely rejuvenated my love for photography. I have been playing around with all sorts of film just to see which I like the best... but you recommend just sticking with one eh? Or maybe once I find a film that I like?
Don't lose that feeling. That's why we all started this in the first place. Now...for the darkroom.
Tri-x
@@DANIELMILNOR505 I just watched your video on this. Definitely going to check it out. Thanks.
Thanks Dan, that's a great piece.
Superb brother... quick question... Does airport X-ray machines have any effect on film? Preferred canisters? Etc...
Oh ya. Both the baggage machine, a CTX5000 which will fry your film on first pass and the inside scanners which will gradually begin to base fog your film. Lead bags, hand inspection and be polite. Also know TSA is untrained in any of this and will tell you all kinds of misinformation.
I worked in the CTX Vault in ATL ... 12 machines .. batteries will trigger a “Fail Safe” more than anything.This was before I new anything about photography. (Still clueless)...I’m considering 4x5 ... scary .Thanks!. The long term project would be to photograph ladies over the age of 40 in South America. It’s amazing how good they look. I think Blurb would be a good start for a test mag... 40+ Magazine. I apologize for the barrage of questions... Thanks for your contribution. May I share your video to a few groups... ? I will bug you later about fly fishing... my Oyster rod is ready...peace.
Well, you got me interested. I'm a newbie in film photography, I must say. Dunno if I'm a hipster though, I just like the somewhat "simplicity" of that. I was shooting tri-x pushed and developed at 800-1600. You were saying that it's designed for like 250-320. So, what does that mean. Should I measure and shoot it like it's 250 let's say and develop it at the same value, or what? Could you elaborate more on that subject in another video? Regards from Poland.
You can push TRI-X to 800 pretty easily. Anything past that gets a bit contrasty for my liking but it will also depend on how you develop. I rate it at 250 or 320 depending then process normal.
Hey Daniel, just found your channel, loved this video, very inspiring! Subbed, can't wait for future vids, watching the Blurb Q&As now 😛
Blurb Q&A's....I've always got a few of those in the pipeline. It's a complex system so many things to know.
Kodak DCS... wow! When I worked for The Palm Beach Post we had an original model Kodak DCS with the Data Storage Unit. It was... different. The only time I know we used it was for the fireworks/demolition on New Year's Eve of the old county courthouse. We had to extend the paper's deadline to get the pictures in. The DCS images weren't usable - the fireworks were all purple from what I remember (not blaming the camera - digital was still a strange, new frontier) but the rolls of film dropped to me on the roof of the newspaper building from the photographer in the helicopter that was hovering over me were fine. Now it's "Stand by, I'll FTP these to you from my cell phone's hot spot and you'll have them before we land." Man, I miss the newspaper days.
Still in the middle of watching your video. Fujichrome 100, we shot that at The Post (with a little hand-processed C-41 film from what I remember) until we eventually switched to Ektapress C-41 films, nice because the processing was so fast, not an hour like with the E-6, which a more user-friendly loading process and even the chemical mixing process. The Ektapress films were pretty nice but no comparison to RDP though. And of course it's all digital there now. (And never mind the layoffs, very sad.)
nikonrumors.com/2013/04/09/interview-with-kodaks-lead-engineer-on-the-early-nikon-based-kodak-dcs-cameras.aspx/
Oh my GOD. The helicopter story, to normal people, would seem crazy but to US it just seems like a Tuesday. The news industry in general was so interesting, so much madness. My press pass got me into so many places I should never have been. And got me shot at, got me rammed by a car and get me held at gunpoint. Such fun. I remember the Ektapress ads. The glory years!
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Incidental to all this, I just got my first MagCloud magazine test about 15 minutes ago. Not a test of an actual publication, just color charts, a few photos, etc. so I can work out settings in Photoshop. I'm impressed with the quality and the price. I'd never thought of doing any kind of self-published magazine until I saw your video about it. Good inspiration!
Newbie question ... So if I shoot Tri-X with ISO250-320 I still develop it as ISO400? Can I still use yellow filters if I shoot with lower ISO? Or maybe I should not use a filter?
Yes, that's right. A yellow filter will normally take another 1/3 to 1/2 stop of exposure.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 Thanks!
Hot Damn! I learned sooo much from your video, especially the actual film speed. I would say I am an educated photographer, not a pro tho. It my extreme hobby now that I'm fully retired. I have a website, but it is mostly a travel site I keep. I grew up in film in the 70s. Then got out of photography totally. Bought my first DSLR in 2005. And now I have going back to film. It is so fun! I have 6 digital cams, 3 35mm film cams, and 2 TLRs. What I pick to shoot with is pretty much my mood, and what I am going to shoot. I am going TLR for sure now, and I would say each photo I make takes me about 5 minutes. From figuring exposure, composing, shooting, and then I record in a journal each shot and the exposure values as I have never shot FULLY analog manual TLRs before, and not using a single battery for the shot! I never talk camera specs, that's boring. I am also a retired Navy Chief, I have thick skin, you can't hurt my feelings :) I post on Flickr for fun, and never get any comments, that is OK, what somebody thinks about a photo is completely different what another would think. Cheers!
Make a magazine, leave lined pages then hand the magazine to someone you know and ask them to write their thoughts about the images on the lined pages. Then do it with a stranger. See what happens. Navy Chief. That sounds like a real job. I would have joined the Navy but it was the fortitude, strength, courage and aptitude I lacked. And I would have probably failed the drug test. Film is a blast. It really is. I wish I had better logistics because I'd be using it all the time. I am, finally, learning to love the digital side of things but it's a different experience.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 believe me, I was sweating the urinalysis test ... I went in when I was 31, very long hair, bell bottoms, and big ol boots. They had fun with me.
Great video !!!
All great stuff, I am LA guy TriX at 100 works for me! Great stories!
Hmm, I like that. One of the things I love about film is the range of manipulation.
Man... This video was superb... I started film photography back in the mid 90s... Some of the stuff you were talking about I recognized too, some was an eye opener. If possible, like to hear what you have to say more on film ISO... In photo school we were taught to generally shoot at box speed. I knew about Portra being able to be shot at about 1 stop over but not really at 100 and being developed normal for the most part. I just bought some Portra 400 this past weekend and going to give it a go at 100. Love your channel 🙏✌️
Most of the Portra at 100 with push folks were portrait, fashion and celebrity portrait folks who wanted creamy skin tone. They never taught us about film speed either, in my PJ school.
I enjoyed this ramble! I gotta say I am totally in love with the E100 and it's what I am mostly shooting now.
As long as your shooting, you're shooting. Keep it up.
Film has a heel and a toe, what's not to like? I've shot a lot of P3200, and I'm glad they brought it back. I'd also like to see BW400CN revived. My time is to valuable to do scut work, paying lab costs and hiring a pro retoucher, makes economic sense.
It's interesting to find out that film is still acceptable to agencys today-good to know info.
It always amazes me that people don't do tests. They are easy to do, and don't cost much. After testing you know what YOUR personal ISO, customized to the way YOU work. Unfortunately most people want to be spoon fed.
Testing is SO critical whether it be film or making books. Nothing in the art world comes on the first pass, everything is via revision. 400CN! Wow. I'd forgotten about that.
Geez, you got the whole
Hipster thing 100% correct! And I hate this stupid notion that’s been starting to circulate that because it’s shot in film it’s better....Instagram is just mostly of unthoughtful crap
I shoot film because Mostly because you can’t make a digital file look like a true back and white film image
I was trying to make that point at the beginning and end. I see so much work being hyped due to it being made on film, only to see the work and think "Okay, maybe the photographer just doesn't know what constitutes good photography." However, conversations about film are good, so the positive outweighs any negative.
Excellent points- got my start on my grandfathers FT-QL and printing in the dark room. One thing tho- and please correct me if I’m wrong, but EPP is Kodak Ektachrome? The way you were speaking made it sound, to me, like it was another company who made EPP.
Yes, Ektachrome, but just one of many in the Ektachrome lineup.
So much sense in all that Dan, I started when there was only film and have been through digital and come back to film but will use either depending on what I am shooting and why. Great post.
Ya, it's a decision made at the front end of a project and then forgotten about.
great vid , thanks. maybe i overhearwd it, but what was the name of the Fujichrome film you mentioned that was pushable ? 100d ?
Original RDP but they don't make it anymore. They did make a 100-1000 version in the late 90's but I think that is gone too.
@@DANIELMILNOR505 thanks Daniel i might try some old ebay stock :)
Now we have RDP III AKA Provia 100F. Still very pushable from my own experience!
So good, lots of gold nuggets in this. One very good tip he gave, develop your own B&W film! And when you do, use a wetting agent in the final process so you don't get water spots because if you don't use it, you'll get spots. Kodak Photo Flo for example is a wetting agent that will do the job and is cheap as chips. Developing B&W film yourself is inexpensive, not difficult, interesting and fun.
Photo Flo. I can see the bottle in my mind.
When I was in school, we learned to develop and print film. That was in the 90s and early 2000s. Was a lot of fun.
I always dump all my rolls in a big plastic see through bag when I travel. From Myanmar to China they were happy to give me a hand check because customs loved seeing my cameras haha. The bag makes their live easier and a smile always helps too. Also keep on rambling, Daniel. Always love photography ramblings. :)
Same for me, most of the time. TSA is like "Hey, that's film, how great is that?" On the flipside you now see customs forms with "Do you have more than 12 rolls of film," and if so they try to nail you for importing or trying to sell. They also don't understand that most pros don't shoot film and the guy next to you in line with the iPhone who is streaming live and posting nonstop is the one most taking advantage.
Lisa W I know the video you are talking about. But it’s the new CT scanners that you have to worry about. They make a 3D scan of the contents of your bag and are 100 times stronger. Kodak and Ilford released a new protocol for them. And besides. If your photograph earn you money you just don’t want to risk it. Even with the old ones.
@@lisaw150 Also, I've had TMZ base fog after two scans. I shot that film for ten years and traveled with it extensively. scanners are hard to predict.
Saw this back in late 90’s while I was using 810 Polaroid and 120 b&w & positive stock. Have now moved to digital and like the poster mentioned use it as I have any camera - making sure it’s in the can .. with my past film photography it was not always 100% guaranteed to have the image but as long as the kit was in working order the photograph was there after processing. Now digital allows for checking if you’re unsure but I don’t feel comfortable with the idea of is it there is it not. Just a way of thinking over a very long time in a varied career and life. Digital or film or wet plates whichever you feel is suitable for your practice, art or hobby.
Yes, it's all good and worthy and valid and entertaining.
Thank you so much Dan, loving your videos great info and entertaining! along with my D810 I have two OM1’s, and always wondered why my frames came back slightly under exposed, is that because I don’t know what I’m doing and set the camera to 400 when using tri-x then ? And your ten roll film cases, do you sell them?
I don't sell them. I THINK I got them at Freestyle in LA. But it's been a long while. And yes, those box speeds are deceptive!
Regarding your OM1 (fantastic little camera!), what battery do you use for it? It was designed to operate on a 1.35v battery (mercury) that pretty much stays at a constant voltage until it fails. These batteries aren’t produced anymore. If your battery is alkaline it starts at 1.5v or 1.55v and declines with use. So it could be providing too much voltage, too little, or just the right amount depending on where it is in the voltage curve.
You have a few options:
- Use the WeinCell MRB625 replacement battery for PX625/PX13. This is designed as a drop-in replacement for the OM-1, and even says so on the packaging.
- Get 1.3V hearing-aid batteries from the drug store. They fit and work.
- Use readily-available 1.5V lithium cells, but learn to read the meter as off or trick the camera by setting the ISO down by two stops. (That is, if you're using ISO 100 film, set it to 25; if you're using ISO 400, set it to 100.)
- Get an adapter which converts 1.5V to 1.35V, like MR-9 Battery Adapter for Film Camera & Exposure Meter.
M S thank you so much for taking the time to comment, it is very much appreciated and very welcome information which I will put to immediate use! I love using film, just hope it stays around for us to enjoy!
Kevin Cull awesome, I just got an OM-1 and OM-2 myself so I had the info on hand 😊 Film is having such a revival, I’m sure it will never go away! Enjoy shooting!
I need more videos like this!!!!
Great advice Dan. Thank you so much. Btw which agency were you referring to who supported you that well :)