Any musical instrument made with skill, craftsmanship and pride is a thing of beauty. The comparison is a great idea but only for hearing a minor difference in tone that is very subjective to the end listener preferences and the sound producing device being used. I am in awe of your skill and craftsmanship. Thank you for sharing your skill and please keep doing it!
To my ears, the Loar had a softer more subdued tone while the Rosa was crisper, more vibrant. While both sounded great I've gotta give the Gold Medal to the Rosa. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the best, I'd give the Loar a 9.8 & the Rosa a 10. Great job, I'm sure "Thomas" is going to enjoy his for many years to come!
I know I'm a couple of years late to this video, but I'm glad I watched it. I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here, and I don't mean to parrot what other commenters have said, but here goes: The analogy I can quickly think of is this: put a world-class soprano next to a world-class alto, listen to them sing and tell me which one is better. You can't. They're both world-class, they're just different. To my bluegrass-loving ears, the Loar would be what I'd want to hear playing a part in a group because it's got that trebly, tinkely sound that I love in a instrumental blend. However, if the mandolin were going to be the primary, or even just a featured, instrument, I'd much prefer the Rosa, because it seems to have a more rounded, woody sound, featuring the lower (less tinkly) registers with great clarity. Then there's that great volume! I'm a guitarist, but if I could only afford a single, high quality mandolin, it would have to be the Rosa. I hope I made some sense here.........ya never know, because, like I said, I play guitar.......(at least I insult one on a fairly regular basis)
Everyone who has close familiarity with a Loar-signed F5 states that you have to learn how to coax the full sonic potential out of the instrument, that the instrument itself teaches you how to play it if you are sensitive enough to its characteristics. It is currently popular to build excess midrange into an F5 mandolin to produce the "woof" that many players desire. Frequently, this midrange overdrives microphones/soundsystems if the player and/or sound tech does not take care to mitigate this. I prefer the elegant, refined sound of the Gibson F5, but it has the unfair advantage of nearly 100 years over the new one. Thank you for your comparison.
I used to make mandolins for Gibson, when they first moved to Nashville from Montana. I've seen a few Loars come through, Charlie Derrington would take them apart and measure each part, he kept a journal. That said, you make a nice open mandolin. The setup on the Gibson could be better, I'm sure I can make it sound louder and have more bass. It's a good instrument, all of them I saw were. They aren't the best out there, but Gibson had different people making them every day. They were a company, ran by regular guys, many making instruments for the first time. Mr. Loar was good at tinkering, and he came up with some weird ideas, but the mandolins he made were structurally superb, including the 23 you played. Since then, there have been many thousands of luthiers who have improved on the schematics, and made better instruments. Like someone else in your comments said, though, it's the name Gibson Lloyd Loar Mandolin that has the magic. Not only the presence, or the weight of history that the name has though, the particular sound of those early mandolins, even the worst ones, has power over us. We've heard that sound on every Bill Monroe recording, on most early bluegrass stuff. It's like listening to something through a Neumann U87, our favorite music was played through that mic, so it has a resonance in our ear and minds. That's why it's hard for me to judge between instruments like that. Yours is a fine instrument, a world class instrument, you're a good luthier. I wish you good fortune. If you make it to Staunton Virginia, come look me up as Huss & Dalton guitars, I'm in the spray booth. Bring a mandolin if you have one not sold.
Your mandolin seems to have a deeper fuller sound, while the Lore has a brighter higher pitched more metallic sound. My own preference is the deeper more woody sound like yours. Others may prefer the brighter sound which is just a matter of preference. They both sound very nice. The sound of your mandolin may brighten up as the finish cures over time too. I predict that if you keep building these mandolins that some day yours will command the big bucks like the Lore. They are both in the master's category.
I do think the Rosa is more than a cut above the Loar, but this actually depends upon the individual instruments, sometimes the weather, and very importantly, the condition of the strings. Jerry is a very good mandolinist, very consistent, I observed. His playing perfectly showcased both instruments. I vote for “The Rosa” above “The Gibson”!!!
I have no previous knowledge of Mandolins other than what I have learnt from your channel Jerry. Looking up the 1923 Gibson Lloyd Loar on Google showed that they sell for up to $150,000, I would say that your beautiful instrument is priced far too cheaply in comparison! No doubt in my mind that the Rosa is an accumulating classic! Thanks for posting.
I love what I call the "aged" sound of the Loar , deep mellow sound that only comes from aged sounded wood. That being said the crisp bright tone of the Rosa really caught my ear, as untrained as my ears are , both great sounding instruments would be proud to be able to play either one .... another extra thumbs up
I do agree with you The Loar sounds mellow compare to the Rosa and is less bright but comparing such an old instrument with a brand new one is almost impossible. Despite that the Rosa sounds already much louder so the sound will most likely get better and better as for example Martin guitars which are opening up with years as long as they are regularly played
Firstly may I say how much I enjoy watching your videos--I'm rather addicted. When I listen to the Loar it sounds as if the music is coming from the instrument as a whole-- from inside the body. The Rosa's sound still seems to be from the strings. I believe this is because the instrument is so very "young"--it hasn't had the maturing the Loar has enjoyed. However as yours matures I think it too is going to develop that beautiful body sound. I hope that makes sense. It's the best way I can explain what I hear.
I agree with the comments below. I've been playing Guitar/Mandolin/Dobro/ Banjo and fiddle for close to 45+years ,,, In my Opinion ONLY , I Like the sound of your Mandolin Better . In saying that ,,,The Loar has a more Tenor tone and Tinkely tone , where as you "Rosa" has a more evenly Balanced , Rich, Full Tone ,,,, I'm Sure a lot has to do with your Knowledge of Instruments ,,, but i think today Acoustic Instruments are Filled with New knowledge of Tonewoods , aging , finishes , measurements etc, that were not available to the makers of Old. If you'll listen to the up coming players of the violin, guitars , and the acoustics that are available today ,,, Hands down your Mandolin is fuller , and honestly probably better built ,,, due to the knowledge that WE have from our elders of past history . The Masters of years gone by has been great mentors ,,,but the True students of todays musical world is simply amazing to listen to the clarity and raising of the bar in the music world.Rock-on-Rosa . your to be commended !
Your instrument is better because it sounds plumber,smoother and more forgiving and balanced. I am a guitar player and so, not much of an expert in that field but your instrument is easier on the ear.
To my ear yours has a somewhat attenuated high end compared to the Loar and would probably not stand out as well in a typical band mix. Don't get me wrong -- it has a very pleasant sound on its own and is obviously well crafted, it just doesn't have the sort of tonal balance I personally would expect from or look for in an F-5 style instrument. Thanks for posting an honest comparison -- it's great to have highly-skilled and conscientious luthiers like yourself striving for excellence in their work!
The Rosa had a fuller sound, not a lot but noticeable. The Rosa seemed to have more resonance too. It's always best to listen in person instead of RUclips. You made a beautiful and excellent sounding mandolin. I don't play, but I wish I could so I can buy one. I've loved the mandolin since the days of Bill Monroe. I have a suggestion for your videos. When there are 2 or more parts to a project could you number them this way? 1 of 3, 2 of 3, and 3 of 3 in your titles. Sometimes I'm not sure if I missed one if I see "Part 1, part 2, and then "final." Thanks for all the videos.
EXCELLENT work! Hey, if you had it around, it does make a perfect "staple" sound to compare to. If you are coming anywhere near a Loar, you nailed it, and you did. It's so difficult to compare one instrument to the other. Perhaps if you played that Loar all day first, it might open up more for the recording. BUT-- your mandolin is truly comparable to a Loar...
Interesting comparison. It would have been nice to record them both in your studio with the same mike as an overdub. Same song, same licks, so you could hear them at the same time. One panned far left and one panned far right. Something you could quickly select between the two while listening. Hearing them both at the same time in a controlled environment with a decent mike might give some additional insight on the strengths and or weaknesses (if any) of each. I understand doing this was an after-thought, but I think of this kind of thing like tasting fine wines. You have to cleanse the pallet between tastes or the other taints the flavor. When you are only listening to one at a time your ear adjusts and they both sound good (at the time). For me it has to be quicker or simultaneous. Cool idea though Jerry! I enjoy your vids.
All I can say Mr. Jerry, is WOW! If I was blindfolded, and didnt know the brands, I would have picked The Rosa out of the 2. I'm a guitar picker, and not a Mandolin player (Yet), but I know a great sounding string instrument when I hear it. In my personal opinion, The Rosa beats out this particular Lloyd Loar in volume and clarity. Dont get the big head now! Hahaha! If I find a suitcase full of money, I want you to build me 2 or 3 of these ok! lol
I hear what you mean in spacial acoustics, I've noticed too with many cameras that has automatic recording levels are sometimes different, that too could have had an effect, other than that... WOW!! I can tell your mandolin seems to be much louder, I hear a great deal of woody sound in yours as well, but there again it's really hard to tell with the acoustics as you mentioned and the newer technology of the cameras automatically rendering what they pick up. Still it's a good comparison and a guide line for others.
I don't play mandolin and am not sure about how well they sustain but to my ears the Loar seemed to have sharper and more easily dstinguishable notes whereas the Rosa had a more rounded tone but less easily distinctively separate notes. Maybe the Rosa has a bit more sustain??? Not at all sure. A very interesting comparison of two top-of-the-range instruments.
The Rosa is louder and fuller. I don't play mandolin much less have ever built an instrument but I've been playing guitar nearly every day for over 44 yrs and have owned a bunch so I've got a pretty good ear. I could watch Mr. Rosa's vids all day
Hi Jerry; Your videos are Greatly Appreciated. To my ears your instrument seems better balanced. The Loar was more articulate in the higher ranges - Don't know if that's the correct term perhaps brighter on the higher register. Personally, I prefer yours to the Loar. I am a Jazz Archtop Guy with Ham Bones for Hands... I am amazed you are able to manipulate the fretboard on a Mandolin with your Meat Hooks... Gods Good Fortune be with you. Fred v.
the Loar is sharp, clear, mellower sound, possibly due the Age and curing of the finish. The Rosa has the same sharp, clear sound, while not quite as mellow (I believe due to the lack of aging of the wood and finish, I would have liked to heard the Loar in 1923, probably a totally different sound profile.) The Rosa has definitely more decisive Bark, and is a louder instrument, while holding the clarity of sound in the total scale.... My Opinion for what it is, the Rosa is every bit the quality of a mandolin as the Loar. The Rosa is a much louder, Barkier Mandolin, while maintaining the qualities of the Loar F5. I would like to hear the same Rosa mandolin in 50 years...
The automatic volume control and compression from the video camera really makes comparison difficult. In addition, it really isn't possible to compare two instruments at different times and background acoustics being different. I ran the recordings through a spectral analyzer and the Loar is birghter.
I love both. The loar has well played mellow sound. most likely because of its age. Your mandolin sound close but different. I personally don’t know much about mandolins other I have learned from you. I have a solid top Kay mandolin, which is no comparison to yours or Loar.
Your mid to low end is superior to the Lloyd Loar. The top end crispness is a bit better on the Loar. I'd definitely play yours over the other for sure. Any idea why there is such a pronounced difference?
Nice video. I would say doing comparisons like this are tricky because to be fair you'd want to make sure the mic was exactly the same distance away and try to make everything (pick, string gauge, right hand position) the same. But when you play two instruments I think it's hard not to favor one while you are playing. Or at least to alter your playing a bit subconsciously. Not meaning to criticize. I actually listened on a big stereo. Both instruments sound good. The Loar has a nice crisp, clear sound. No doubt it would sound good in a band situation. The Rosa has more mid range to my ears making it seem louder. It rings out a little more and by itself I prefer its tone to the Loar.
+Rosa String Works Your playing did seem very similar both times, particularly when you were just running through the chords. I would think your video should succeed in demonstrating that your mandolin is a high quality instrument, and that while not a Loar clone in terms of tone (due to the antler saddle) it has a great, full sound on its own. I hope this video and the others you did on documenting the Thomas build will generate more orders for you!
Jerry, I thought the Loar sounded brighter than yours, but that doesn't mean better. As I'm sure you know, no two pieces of wood are gonna sound the same. Not all Stradivari's are amazing, and neither are all Loars. Yours sounded more rounded to my 73yr old ears (fitted with hearing aids in both). I'd be proud to own a Rosa, but I live in the UK and I wouldn't trust any shipping company with an expensive instrument.
With instruments, it gets to the point where neither is "better" and at best you are hearing is slight differences. I would describe the Loar as brighter and more bell-like and the Rosa as more Woody and full. Loars used hide glue and the Loar's wood has aged a lot so that probably accounts for most of the subtle differences. That woody tone is more what you probably would want for recording these days because it just plain sounds more rustic and bluegrass. The Loar actually sounds more Celtic and chimney.
I think the Mid range on your Mandolin is better Jerry, the Gibson is good to, the rarity of the Loar is where the worth is, like the 1937 D-28’s, just not many out there.
The Rosa has a richer tone and better sustain, but it also has more pick noise that can be annoying. The Lore mandolin seems a bit tinny sounding, but no pick clacking.
The pic click can be caused by a lot of different things he doesn't really have much to do with the instrument. Probably more the way the mic was happening
I'd have to concur with Dean Jarvis below. It is not known if the strings used on each were an identical set of brand and gauge. The Loar brighter, the Rosa fuller. I'm sure if you compared Loar to Loar and Rosa to Rosa, each would have it's own tonal characteristics. I might add that the Rosa seemed to have a chorus sound to it.
Thanks for the comment. Pretty sure the strings were the same. I think it speaks volumes that the St. Louis mandolin that I built after this one went to the owner of the Lloyd Loar mandolin. He loves it and it is now his primary instrument.
I guess my response to this would be, sometimes subtlety and sweetness is what makes a mandolin beautiful. Punching you in the jaw is what a guitar does. I think the Rosa is a wonderful sounding instrument, but louder doesn't equate to better in all situations.
I like yours better...Loar is a mandolin that exist for 90+ years and it has a little sharper sound (i think),and with time,your mandolin is going to be far better then Loar... I played about 90 year old "bulgaria" in our local folclour band,and it sounded far better then a new instrument (bulgaria is an instrument that plays opposite the bass tunes...like drums in rock...for comparrison),but qith time and usage,instrument gets better and better-if it is built like it suposed to be,and your is...one day,your instruments will be much loved and apriciated collectors items... sorry for long explaining about bulgaria,i don't know if Americans have the same instruments as Europeans...if i wasn't afraid of overseas shipping,i would send it to you for repair,my front board cracked due to too high bridge that one "master builder" forced to it... Greetings from Croatia...
Tihomir Kolarek Thanks for telling about the Bulgaria, and how it is used. I have never heard of one of them before. Its always great to find out about a new instrument.
@@RosaStringWorks Both sound good, and the difference between the two can be chalked up to the reverberance of the room, string age/type, etc. The only reason they are so expensive is because of antique fetishism, and rarity Even real stradivarius violins failed to win in double blind listening tests. If I spent that much on an instrument, I would be scared to play it, and get something like the rosa which sounds just as good if not better, and cost a fraction of the price. Granted for recording and inspiration, I'd play the Loar at home only. You might consider using torrified wood though for a mandolin build experiment, if you think aged wood has a unique sound to it.
In my opinion. Yours cuts through. It's crisper & a bit louder than the Loar. I know the Loar is nearly 100 yrs old, so that may have a bit to do with it. Any way my vote goes to The Rosa.
Gibson sound register is in the treble register rit soumds a bit tinny no insult tinny can be good in a mandolin. The Rosa is more midrange and warm, full sound not as tinny, but it does have high register but not as much. They are different I would classify the Gibson as a high register instrument lacking in mid and bass and the Rosa a more well-rounded instrument displaying a more balanced sound. the Rosa sounds better in my not so humble opinion...
That loar doesnt sound like it's been played in, I wouldnt know what a "played in" loar would sound like other than listening to all the folks who have cut records with them. The Rosa definitely sounds better in my own worthless opinion
I like the Rosa better. The Loar sounds brighter but not as full. With the Loar you are paying for the sticker, which is worth about 180k! Otherwise, you can get the exact same mandolin by buying a Gibson master model, which sells for about 16k. The Rosa will be less expensive and produce better tone but it won't have the sticker inside.
The age of the strings could make a difference in sound, but I do prefer the sound of the Rosa Mandolin for its louder and brighter sound
Any musical instrument made with skill, craftsmanship and pride is a thing of beauty. The comparison is a great idea but only for hearing a minor difference in tone that is very subjective to the end listener preferences and the sound producing device being used. I am in awe of your skill and craftsmanship. Thank you for sharing your skill and please keep doing it!
To my ears, the Loar had a softer more subdued tone while the Rosa was crisper, more vibrant. While both sounded great I've gotta give the Gold Medal to the Rosa. On a scale of 1-10 10 being the best, I'd give the Loar a 9.8 & the Rosa a 10. Great job, I'm sure "Thomas" is going to enjoy his for many years to come!
Thank you very much.
Two great mandolins.
I know I'm a couple of years late to this video, but I'm glad I watched it. I hope I'm not showing my ignorance here, and I don't mean to parrot what other commenters have said, but here goes: The analogy I can quickly think of is this: put a world-class soprano next to a world-class alto, listen to them sing and tell me which one is better. You can't. They're both world-class, they're just different. To my bluegrass-loving ears, the Loar would be what I'd want to hear playing a part in a group because it's got that trebly, tinkely sound that I love in a instrumental blend. However, if the mandolin were going to be the primary, or even just a featured, instrument, I'd much prefer the Rosa, because it seems to have a more rounded, woody sound, featuring the lower (less tinkly) registers with great clarity. Then there's that great volume! I'm a guitarist, but if I could only afford a single, high quality mandolin, it would have to be the Rosa. I hope I made some sense here.........ya never know, because, like I said, I play guitar.......(at least I insult one on a fairly regular basis)
They both sound great, but I really like the sound of the Rosa!
Thanks Jeff.
Great mandolins Jerry thanks for the comparison
I love everything loyd built but your Rosa is the bomb ... meaning, yours is better.... jus sayin ⚡ ⚡
Everyone who has close familiarity with a Loar-signed F5 states that you have to learn how to coax the full sonic potential out of the instrument, that the instrument itself teaches you how to play it if you are sensitive enough to its characteristics. It is currently popular to build excess midrange into an F5 mandolin to produce the "woof" that many players desire. Frequently, this midrange overdrives microphones/soundsystems if the player and/or sound tech does not take care to mitigate this. I prefer the elegant, refined sound of the Gibson F5, but it has the unfair advantage of nearly 100 years over the new one. Thank you for your comparison.
Wow, if I were Thomas I would be thrilled. Your instrument sure held its own against the Loar.
Honestly, Jerry, you mandolin has a deeper and much better tone than the Loar.
I used to make mandolins for Gibson, when they first moved to Nashville from Montana. I've seen a few Loars come through, Charlie Derrington would take them apart and measure each part, he kept a journal. That said, you make a nice open mandolin. The setup on the Gibson could be better, I'm sure I can make it sound louder and have more bass. It's a good instrument, all of them I saw were. They aren't the best out there, but Gibson had different people making them every day. They were a company, ran by regular guys, many making instruments for the first time. Mr. Loar was good at tinkering, and he came up with some weird ideas, but the mandolins he made were structurally superb, including the 23 you played. Since then, there have been many thousands of luthiers who have improved on the schematics, and made better instruments. Like someone else in your comments said, though, it's the name Gibson Lloyd Loar Mandolin that has the magic. Not only the presence, or the weight of history that the name has though, the particular sound of those early mandolins, even the worst ones, has power over us. We've heard that sound on every Bill Monroe recording, on most early bluegrass stuff. It's like listening to something through a Neumann U87, our favorite music was played through that mic, so it has a resonance in our ear and minds. That's why it's hard for me to judge between instruments like that. Yours is a fine instrument, a world class instrument, you're a good luthier. I wish you good fortune. If you make it to Staunton Virginia, come look me up as Huss & Dalton guitars, I'm in the spray booth. Bring a mandolin if you have one not sold.
Thank you for the note. Nice to hear from you. If I get out that way I'll try to remember to look you up.
Your mandolin seems to have a deeper fuller sound, while the Lore has a brighter higher pitched more metallic sound. My own preference is the deeper more woody sound like yours. Others may prefer the brighter sound which is just a matter of preference. They both sound very nice. The sound of your mandolin may brighten up as the finish cures over time too. I predict that if you keep building these mandolins that some day yours will command the big bucks like the Lore. They are both in the master's category.
I do think the Rosa is more than a cut above the Loar, but this actually depends upon the individual instruments, sometimes the weather, and very importantly, the condition of the strings. Jerry is a very good mandolinist, very consistent, I observed. His playing perfectly showcased both instruments. I vote for “The Rosa” above “The Gibson”!!!
I have no previous knowledge of Mandolins other than what I have learnt from your channel Jerry.
Looking up the 1923 Gibson Lloyd Loar on Google showed that they sell for up to $150,000, I would say that your beautiful instrument is priced far too cheaply in comparison!
No doubt in my mind that the Rosa is an accumulating classic!
Thanks for posting.
I love what I call the "aged" sound of the Loar , deep mellow sound that only comes from aged sounded wood. That being said the crisp bright tone of the Rosa really caught my ear, as untrained as my ears are , both great sounding instruments would be proud to be able to play either one .... another extra thumbs up
Thanks Chip.
I do agree with you The Loar sounds mellow compare to the Rosa and is less bright but comparing such an old instrument with a brand new one is almost impossible. Despite that the Rosa sounds already much louder so the sound will most likely get better and better as for example Martin guitars which are opening up with years as long as they are regularly played
Firstly may I say how much I enjoy watching your videos--I'm rather addicted. When I listen to the Loar it sounds as if the music is coming from the instrument as a whole-- from inside the body. The Rosa's sound still seems to be from the strings. I believe this is because the instrument is so very "young"--it hasn't had the maturing the Loar has enjoyed. However as yours matures I think it too is going to develop that beautiful body sound. I hope that makes sense. It's the best way I can explain what I hear.
Thanks Glynis.
I agree with the comments below. I've been playing Guitar/Mandolin/Dobro/ Banjo and fiddle for close to 45+years ,,, In my Opinion ONLY , I Like the sound of your Mandolin Better . In saying that ,,,The Loar has a more Tenor tone and Tinkely tone , where as you "Rosa" has a more evenly Balanced , Rich, Full Tone ,,,, I'm Sure a lot has to do with your Knowledge of Instruments ,,, but i think today Acoustic Instruments are Filled with New knowledge of Tonewoods , aging , finishes , measurements etc, that were not available to the makers of Old. If you'll listen to the up coming players of the violin, guitars , and the acoustics that are available today ,,, Hands down your Mandolin is fuller , and honestly probably better built ,,, due to the knowledge that WE have from our elders of past history . The Masters of years gone by has been great mentors ,,,but the True students of todays musical world is simply amazing to listen to the clarity and raising of the bar in the music world.Rock-on-Rosa . your to be commended !
Thank you my friend.
Would like to hear one of yours that has been played in
Both Mandolin's was very good , I couldn't choose one over the other because my hearing is going & I'm 89 years old. But your 2015 Rosa held it's own.
Your instrument is better because it sounds plumber,smoother and more forgiving and balanced. I am a guitar player and so, not much of an expert in that field but your instrument is easier on the ear.
To my ear yours has a somewhat attenuated high end compared to the Loar and would probably not stand out as well in a typical band mix. Don't get me wrong -- it has a very pleasant sound on its own and is obviously well crafted, it just doesn't have the sort of tonal balance I personally would expect from or look for in an F-5 style instrument. Thanks for posting an honest comparison -- it's great to have highly-skilled and conscientious luthiers like yourself striving for excellence in their work!
The Rosa had a fuller sound, not a lot but noticeable. The Rosa seemed to have more resonance too. It's always best to listen in person instead of RUclips. You made a beautiful and excellent sounding mandolin. I don't play, but I wish I could so I can buy one. I've loved the mandolin since the days of Bill Monroe. I have a suggestion for your videos. When there are 2 or more parts to a project could you number them this way? 1 of 3, 2 of 3, and 3 of 3 in your titles. Sometimes I'm not sure if I missed one if I see "Part 1, part 2, and then "final." Thanks for all the videos.
Bow Lam Soo-Hoo thank you for taking a look.
EXCELLENT work! Hey, if you had it around, it does make a perfect "staple" sound to compare to. If you are coming anywhere near a Loar, you nailed it, and you did. It's so difficult to compare one instrument to the other. Perhaps if you played that Loar all day first, it might open up more for the recording. BUT-- your mandolin is truly comparable to a Loar...
Darren Dix thank you very much. Merry Christmas.
The sound of both mandolins are nearly the same, I would never pay the price for a loar when the Rosa is a great sounding mandolin.Great job Jerry
Dennis Kopp thank you.
To me your mandolin sounds better than the 1923 Loydd Loar.
Interesting comparison.
It would have been nice to record them both in your studio with the same mike as an overdub. Same song, same licks, so you could hear them at the same time. One panned far left and one panned far right. Something you could quickly select between the two while listening. Hearing them both at the same time in a controlled environment with a decent mike might give some additional insight on the strengths and or weaknesses (if any) of each. I understand doing this was an after-thought, but I think of this kind of thing like tasting fine wines. You have to cleanse the pallet between tastes or the other taints the flavor. When you are only listening to one at a time your ear adjusts and they both sound good (at the time). For me it has to be quicker or simultaneous. Cool idea though Jerry! I enjoy your vids.
+LarWolkan thanks for taking a look.
All I can say Mr. Jerry, is WOW! If I was blindfolded, and didnt know the brands, I would have picked The Rosa out of the 2. I'm a guitar picker, and not a Mandolin player (Yet), but I know a great sounding string instrument when I hear it. In my personal opinion, The Rosa beats out this particular Lloyd Loar in volume and clarity. Dont get the big head now! Hahaha! If I find a suitcase full of money, I want you to build me 2 or 3 of these ok! lol
Bryan Wayne thanks.
I hear what you mean in spacial acoustics, I've noticed too with many cameras that has automatic recording levels are sometimes different, that too could have had an effect, other than that... WOW!! I can tell your mandolin seems to be much louder, I hear a great deal of woody sound in yours as well, but there again it's really hard to tell with the acoustics as you mentioned and the newer technology of the cameras automatically rendering what they pick up. Still it's a good comparison and a guide line for others.
Thanks Randy. It really has a bark.
I liked yours it has a richer sound .
Nothing wrong with the sound of that Rosa mandolin that's for sure. Looks like some owner of a Gibson Loar-signed F-5 did not like your video! LOL
Thanks. One thing for sure, no matter what you do, someone will find a way to criticize. Thankd for watching.
I don't play mandolin and am not sure about how well they sustain but to my ears the Loar seemed to have sharper and more easily dstinguishable notes whereas the Rosa had a more rounded tone but less easily distinctively separate notes. Maybe the Rosa has a bit more sustain??? Not at all sure. A very interesting comparison of two top-of-the-range instruments.
The Rosa is louder and fuller. I don't play mandolin much less have ever built an instrument but I've been playing guitar nearly every day for over 44 yrs and have owned a bunch so I've got a pretty good ear. I could watch Mr. Rosa's vids all day
I liked them both, but the Loar sounded more woody to my ear. I'll take the Loar, thanks!
Jerry yours sounded A LOT better to my ears than the F5 Loar. Yours was punchier and louder looked better too.
We all looked better when we were first born, than we will look when we are 92. Haha
Hi Jerry; Your videos are Greatly Appreciated. To my ears your instrument seems better balanced. The Loar was more articulate in the higher ranges - Don't know if that's the correct term perhaps brighter on the higher register. Personally, I prefer yours to the Loar. I am a Jazz Archtop Guy with Ham Bones for Hands... I am amazed you are able to manipulate the fretboard on a Mandolin with your Meat Hooks... Gods Good Fortune be with you. Fred v.
V Miles thank you very much.
the Loar is sharp, clear, mellower sound, possibly due the Age and curing of the finish. The Rosa has the same sharp, clear sound, while not quite as mellow (I believe due to the lack of aging of the wood and finish, I would have liked to heard the Loar in 1923, probably a totally different sound profile.) The Rosa has definitely more decisive Bark, and is a louder instrument, while holding the clarity of sound in the total scale.... My Opinion for what it is, the Rosa is every bit the quality of a mandolin as the Loar. The Rosa is a much louder, Barkier Mandolin, while maintaining the qualities of the Loar F5. I would like to hear the same Rosa mandolin in 50 years...
The automatic volume control and compression from the video camera really makes comparison difficult. In addition, it really isn't possible to compare two instruments at different times and background acoustics being different. I ran the recordings through a spectral analyzer and the Loar is birghter.
I love both. The loar has well played mellow sound. most likely because of its age. Your mandolin sound close but different. I personally don’t know much about mandolins other I have learned from you. I have a solid top Kay mandolin, which is no comparison to yours or Loar.
Wonder how much the Loar would sell for ?
Your mid to low end is superior to the Lloyd Loar. The top end crispness is a bit better on the Loar. I'd definitely play yours over the other for sure. Any idea why there is such a pronounced difference?
I'd say your mandolin is a bit clearer than the Loar.Sweet sounds on both though.Thanks
Nice video. I would say doing comparisons like this are tricky because to be fair you'd want to make sure the mic was exactly the same distance away and try to make everything (pick, string gauge, right hand position) the same. But when you play two instruments I think it's hard not to favor one while you are playing. Or at least to alter your playing a bit subconsciously.
Not meaning to criticize. I actually listened on a big stereo. Both instruments sound good. The Loar has a nice crisp, clear sound. No doubt it would sound good in a band situation.
The Rosa has more mid range to my ears making it seem louder. It rings out a little more and by itself I prefer its tone to the Loar.
The deer antler saddle is one reason my mandolin is louder. I don't think I played them with any significant difference.
+Rosa String Works
Your playing did seem very similar both times, particularly when you were just running through the chords.
I would think your video should succeed in demonstrating that your mandolin is a high quality instrument, and that while not a Loar clone in terms of tone (due to the antler saddle) it has a great, full sound on its own.
I hope this video and the others you did on documenting the Thomas build will generate more orders for you!
Jerry, I thought the Loar sounded brighter than yours, but that doesn't mean better. As I'm sure you know, no two pieces of wood are gonna sound the same. Not all Stradivari's are amazing, and neither are all Loars. Yours sounded more rounded to my 73yr old ears (fitted with hearing aids in both). I'd be proud to own a Rosa, but I live in the UK and I wouldn't trust any shipping company with an expensive instrument.
George Van Win thank you sir thank you for watching
With instruments, it gets to the point where neither is "better" and at best you are hearing is slight differences. I would describe the Loar as brighter and more bell-like and the Rosa as more Woody and full. Loars used hide glue and the Loar's wood has aged a lot so that probably accounts for most of the subtle differences. That woody tone is more what you probably would want for recording these days because it just plain sounds more rustic and bluegrass. The Loar actually sounds more Celtic and chimney.
I think the Mid range on your Mandolin is better Jerry, the Gibson is good to, the rarity of the Loar is where the worth is, like the 1937 D-28’s, just not many out there.
The Rosa has a richer tone and better sustain, but it also has more pick noise that can be annoying. The Lore mandolin seems a bit tinny sounding, but no pick clacking.
The pic click can be caused by a lot of different things he doesn't really have much to do with the instrument. Probably more the way the mic was happening
Your's is louder then the Loar. The loar sounds more mellow, may it because of the age and had had the time mellow out. both sound nice.
David Sims thank you for watching.
I'd have to concur with Dean Jarvis below. It is not known if the strings used on each were an identical set of brand and gauge. The Loar brighter, the Rosa fuller. I'm sure if you compared Loar to Loar and Rosa to Rosa, each would have it's own tonal characteristics. I might add that the Rosa seemed to have a chorus sound to it.
Thanks for the comment. Pretty sure the strings were the same. I think it speaks volumes that the St. Louis mandolin that I built after this one went to the owner of the Lloyd Loar mandolin. He loves it and it is now his primary instrument.
+Rosa String Works Volumes is right! It doesn't get any better than that!
What are you guys are listening to. I'll give the Loar a 10 and the Rosa at the best a 4.
The first one sounded like a mandolin, but then the second one also sounded like a mandolin. ;)
Most accurate assessment yet!
Yours just has it, which isn't bad for straight off the bench
The Loar has more low end, the RSW sounds a little brighter.
As you say, it's really subjective, but I prefer the warmer tone of the Rosa mandolin, not that I can afford to buy either of them.
+Richard Ellis thank you. Happy New Year.
the Rosa is already louder than the Loar ! wonder what it will sound like when it's, 92 years old ?!
Thanks, mine are known to be loud. Thats what sells most of them.
I guess my response to this would be, sometimes subtlety and sweetness is what makes a mandolin beautiful. Punching you in the jaw is what a guitar does. I think the Rosa is a wonderful sounding instrument, but louder doesn't equate to better in all situations.
Yes yours sounds better but not quite as clean. The acoustics do sound different. Great job.
fiddle0351 thanks for watching.
I might be a little tone deaf ( read old) but "the rosa" sounds better than "the loar" ,hands down....
I would have to say I like the Rosa better. Both are great. The Gibson isn't 180K great.
+Dean Barnwell thank you very much Dean
I like yours better...Loar is a mandolin that exist for 90+ years and it has a little sharper sound (i think),and with time,your mandolin is going to be far better then Loar...
I played about 90 year old "bulgaria" in our local folclour band,and it sounded far better then a new instrument (bulgaria is an instrument that plays opposite the bass tunes...like drums in rock...for comparrison),but qith time and usage,instrument gets better and better-if it is built like it suposed to be,and your is...one day,your instruments will be much loved and apriciated collectors items...
sorry for long explaining about bulgaria,i don't know if Americans have the same instruments as Europeans...if i wasn't afraid of overseas shipping,i would send it to you for repair,my front board cracked due to too high bridge that one "master builder" forced to it...
Greetings from Croatia...
Tihomir Kolarek thank you very much my friend. I really appreciate your comment and thank you for watching.
Tihomir Kolarek Thanks for telling about the Bulgaria, and how it is used. I have never heard of one of them before. Its always great to find out about a new instrument.
@@RosaStringWorks Both sound good, and the difference between the two can be chalked up to the reverberance of the room, string age/type, etc. The only reason they are so expensive is because of antique fetishism, and rarity Even real stradivarius violins failed to win in double blind listening tests. If I spent that much on an instrument, I would be scared to play it, and get something like the rosa which sounds just as good if not better, and cost a fraction of the price. Granted for recording and inspiration, I'd play the Loar at home only.
You might consider using torrified wood though for a mandolin build experiment, if you think aged wood has a unique sound to it.
Jerry,1st off both sound great,and look beautiful,but your Mandolin is louder,and has a more mid range punch to it,I like yours better
Did the loar have a virzi?
In my opinion. Yours cuts through. It's crisper & a bit louder than the Loar. I know the Loar is nearly 100 yrs old, so that may have a bit to do with it. Any way my vote goes to The Rosa.
Can you make one with a 31 mm neck or 1 and 1/4"". I like a wide neck. Very wide.
Jamie Jones I'm sure I could. Thanks for looking.
Gibson sound register is in the treble register rit soumds a bit tinny no insult tinny can be good in a mandolin. The Rosa is more midrange and warm, full sound not as tinny, but it does have high register but not as much. They are different I would classify the Gibson as a high register instrument lacking in mid and bass and the Rosa a more well-rounded instrument displaying a more balanced sound. the Rosa sounds better in my not so humble opinion...
The Rosa sounds better during the chord chop section...
Honestly, the loar is more defined and not overly bright. Yours is nice sounding but the loar is unmatched.
Contact Info thanks for watching.
The Rosa has barkier sound better for cutting through the other instruments in a Band. I 'd save my bucks and Buy a Rosa F5... no doubt...
That loar doesnt sound like it's been played in, I wouldnt know what a "played in" loar would sound like other than listening to all the folks who have cut records with them. The Rosa definitely sounds better in my own worthless opinion
I like the Rosa better. The Loar sounds brighter but not as full. With the Loar you are paying for the sticker, which is worth about 180k! Otherwise, you can get the exact same mandolin by buying a Gibson master model, which sells for about 16k. The Rosa will be less expensive and produce better tone but it won't have the sticker inside.
Jamie Jones Thanks for watching and the comment.
How much do your mandolins usually sell for? I don't know how to play, but I intend to learn in the future
Thanks Ted. They are less than half the price of a custom Gibson. For specifics, email me at rosastringworks@gmail.com
no contest
I like yours better
+Ozzie Osborn thank you very much. Happy New Year.
Lmao this comment section is so gullible. This video is sad. Good luck to you.
Freida People thanks thanks for watching.
I like the sound of yours better