I didn't know that there was an alternative to pinyin thanks! I think it would be really cool, if more Chinese loan words were written out in Bopomofo, sort of like Japanese. 🤷♂🤷♂
Yea exactly. Japanese use Katakana for transliteration, and we could easily use bopomofo for that, although I don't know about using it for all loanwords as that would leave spots of bopomofo all over our writing and make it look like we're not, well, not needing a supplement to make the characters work in our language.
It would be preferable to the current way of transcribing loanwords with Hanzi, but Zhuyin suffers from being extremely different from Hanzi in terms of space while still being extremely similar to Hanzi in terms of shape. For every single syllable full size Hanzi character you need at least two full size Zhuyin characters (but usually more like four including the tone marker). This makes Zhuyin difficult to read in-line with Hanzi. Japanese doesn't have this problem because Hiragana is probably roughly 50% or more of regular Japanese script, and makes up pretty much all of the script for inflections and grammar. Katakana is more similar to Kanji in shape, but also fulfils a similar role to Kanji but for modern loanwords. On the other hand, using Zhuyin for Chinese script would be hard to read at an instant because it would be such a tiny portion of Chinese script as a whole while being too similar in shape to Hanzi, and lacking the overall density of Hanzi. Korean Hangul would actually be a pretty good fit for a phonetic script in Chinese - it was originally designed with Chinese transcription in mind, but has a very different shape to Hanzi while maintaining similar density. This would make it differentiable enough to easily spot at an instant while fitting within the flow of Chinese script.
Chinese language derives meaning from its characters, unlike Japanese in which the vocabulary has inherent meaning. Therefore, Chinese must use characters to convey meaning.
@@Hampter-m7r the thing with Chinese is that there is an extreme amount of similar sounding words. I only know a bit of Chinese and I can list out possibly a very long list of different characters that all have the same pronunciation down to the same tones being used. That is why chinese cannot be written down in either pinyin or zhuyin. As for phonetic names, chineese already uses set characters for phonetic transliterations, like 馬 is used for transliterating the sound "ma". for example, marcopolo is 馬可波羅， mark is 馬可, etc. As you see, with the han characters, you have the freedom to choose which characters can represent your name. Maybe, a supposed mark does not want his name to mean "horse permission" so he instead uses the characters 瑪恪 that means something like "Beauty in diligence" because everything he does, he does with dilligence and beauty. + Also, zhuyin is limited to taiwan i guess so that eaves a lot of people that don't know/ can't use zhuyin
Might there uses for it beyond learning purposes such as where Han characters wouldn't quite capture the situations and/or extensions for Formosan languages like how kana is used for Ainuic & other ones in the case of katakana, also including Joseongul/Hangul extensions for others like (R)Yukjin & Jeju languages (as well as Koryo-Mar)?
infact, the are many previous romanisation and simplification systems that were circling around before Zhuyin !! Most notably, Wang Zhao’s Guanhua Zimu was rather influential within the late Qing Dynasty before being discredited after the proposal of regional dialect formatting. Guanhua Zimu, despite its influence, is obscure and frustratingly hard to find on the Chinese Web, let alone Western Sites. Along with this, other systems, such as standardised cursive scripts and modified Latin scripts were apparent during that period, but are now mostly lost to time.
Might seem beautiful but it causes needless headaches in the current world of globalism. Most people would not be able to write English in these comments if their native language wasn't with a latinized alphabet. Yeah, you have Google Translate, but that isn't accurate, and it isn't a substitute in any way. (e.g. try using that for Chinese. It will fail quickly)
It's actually not more efficient for pronunciation. Zhuyin cannot combine vowels to make a separate compound final. For instance, the final "ian" is not "i" plus "an", it is distinct. But zhuyin cannot make that a distinct final, it can only write that as "i" plus "an". ㄧㄢ
Chill my bro, the word Chinese in my video means Chinese language, also known as the standard Mandarin. In language, Taiwanese is typically 台語 ㄊㄞˊ ㄩˇ or can be called Tâi-gí / Tâi-gú.
I didn't know that there was an alternative to pinyin thanks!
I think it would be really cool, if more Chinese loan words were written out in Bopomofo, sort of like Japanese. 🤷♂🤷♂
Sure! it's easier to spell many loanwords.
@@jawijawijawi5047 Yeah, and its consistent to.
Yea exactly. Japanese use Katakana for transliteration, and we could easily use bopomofo for that, although I don't know about using it for all loanwords as that would leave spots of bopomofo all over our writing and make it look like we're not, well, not needing a supplement to make the characters work in our language.
It would be preferable to the current way of transcribing loanwords with Hanzi, but Zhuyin suffers from being extremely different from Hanzi in terms of space while still being extremely similar to Hanzi in terms of shape. For every single syllable full size Hanzi character you need at least two full size Zhuyin characters (but usually more like four including the tone marker). This makes Zhuyin difficult to read in-line with Hanzi.
Japanese doesn't have this problem because Hiragana is probably roughly 50% or more of regular Japanese script, and makes up pretty much all of the script for inflections and grammar. Katakana is more similar to Kanji in shape, but also fulfils a similar role to Kanji but for modern loanwords.
On the other hand, using Zhuyin for Chinese script would be hard to read at an instant because it would be such a tiny portion of Chinese script as a whole while being too similar in shape to Hanzi, and lacking the overall density of Hanzi.
Korean Hangul would actually be a pretty good fit for a phonetic script in Chinese - it was originally designed with Chinese transcription in mind, but has a very different shape to Hanzi while maintaining similar density. This would make it differentiable enough to easily spot at an instant while fitting within the flow of Chinese script.
Chinese language derives meaning from its characters, unlike Japanese in which the vocabulary has inherent meaning. Therefore, Chinese must use characters to convey meaning.
Thank you for the information on Chinese languages it is very interesting 👍
Both Chinese must use more zhuyin like katakana!
Just like how every word cannot be used in hiragana/kataka, Chinese words cannot be written in zhuyin
@mdahsenmirza2536 No not mean all words but only borrowed word like Miller[ㄇㄧㄌㄜ]. You know katakana is used for borrowed words.
@@Hampter-m7r the thing with Chinese is that there is an extreme amount of similar sounding words. I only know a bit of Chinese and I can list out possibly a very long list of different characters that all have the same pronunciation down to the same tones being used. That is why chinese cannot be written down in either pinyin or zhuyin. As for phonetic names, chineese already uses set characters for phonetic transliterations, like 馬 is used for transliterating the sound "ma". for example, marcopolo is 馬可波羅， mark is 馬可, etc. As you see, with the han characters, you have the freedom to choose which characters can represent your name. Maybe, a supposed mark does not want his name to mean "horse permission" so he instead uses the characters 瑪恪 that means something like "Beauty in diligence" because everything he does, he does with dilligence and beauty. + Also, zhuyin is limited to taiwan i guess so that eaves a lot of people that don't know/ can't use zhuyin
@@Hampter-m7ras a chinese person, no we do not, unfortunately
@mdahsenmirza2536 Writing foreign pronunciation as hanzi feels like so stubborn. Korean and Japanese even don't that.
Pinyin is a good one. But I like Zhuyin more.
很有趣，我原來不知道客家和粵語有用注音！
闽南话也用注音，其实，闽南话有很漂亮的注音字。
Might there uses for it beyond learning purposes such as where Han characters wouldn't quite capture the situations and/or extensions for Formosan languages like how kana is used for Ainuic & other ones in the case of katakana, also including Joseongul/Hangul extensions for others like (R)Yukjin & Jeju languages (as well as Koryo-Mar)?
I stumbled by chance upon the hold house of Zhang Taiyan a few days ago in the Northwest of Hangzhou, had no idea he was the guy that created Zhuyin !
I used to be able to read bopomofo very slowly. Forgotten now. I also like the Gwoyeu Romatzyh because it doesn't need tone marks.
infact, the are many previous romanisation and simplification systems that were circling around before Zhuyin !! Most notably, Wang Zhao’s Guanhua Zimu was rather influential within the late Qing Dynasty before being discredited after the proposal of regional dialect formatting. Guanhua Zimu, despite its influence, is obscure and frustratingly hard to find on the Chinese Web, let alone Western Sites. Along with this, other systems, such as standardised cursive scripts and modified Latin scripts were apparent during that period, but are now mostly lost to time.
注音符號不能失傳
I can read zhuyin.
I hate that the latinization that happened to most of the world's scripts, so many beautiful scripts lost
Well good thing Chinese hasn't been latinized. Pinyin is just a pronunciation symbol system. It didn't replace Chinese script.
Might seem beautiful but it causes needless headaches in the current world of globalism. Most people would not be able to write English in these comments if their native language wasn't with a latinized alphabet. Yeah, you have Google Translate, but that isn't accurate, and it isn't a substitute in any way. (e.g. try using that for Chinese. It will fail quickly)
Zhuyin Fuhao
More efficiant and correct than hanyu pinyin that nobody can read correctly. Its still used in the Republic of China.
It's prettier. I always think of Pinyin as romanisation system, which it does better than its predecessors.
It's actually not more efficient for pronunciation. Zhuyin cannot combine vowels to make a separate compound final. For instance, the final "ian" is not "i" plus "an", it is distinct. But zhuyin cannot make that a distinct final, it can only write that as "i" plus "an". ㄧㄢ
And what are you talking about no one can read it correctly? The PRC has more accurate pronunciation the ROC.
ㄨㄛˇ更ㄒㄧˇㄏㄨㄢ 注音。
the two systems clearly indicate we are two different countries !
Traditional Chinese is for true mandarin speakers. Change my mind.
What? Zhuyin is taiwanese bro and pinyi is chinese
Chill my bro, the word Chinese in my video means Chinese language, also known as the standard Mandarin. In language, Taiwanese is typically 台語 ㄊㄞˊ ㄩˇ or can be called Tâi-gí / Tâi-gú.
😂😂😂😂bro thinks zhuyin created by taiwanese
37th sub
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