At this point the 4070 feels more like a scam and less like a generational upgrade. Its clear NVIDIA was trying to steer everyone to their higher priced models, like the 4080/90. The gap between those is just insane.
I was actually pretty "happy" with it in the Aero 16 since it seems to perform quite adequate at lower wattages (65-100W). But unfortunately it scales quite bad above that, making it a less than ideal option in gaming focused laptops.
For the PCspecialist Recoil VII 17, the still reasonable price jumps are 4060 -> +€227 -> 4070 -> +€425 -> 4080 -> +€517 -> 4090. For the XMG Neo 17 E23, the totally unreasonable price jumps are 4060 -> +€332 -> 4070 -> +€718 -> 4080 -> +€637 -> 4090. In comparison, the XMG Neo 17 E23 includes these ripoff surcharges: €105 for 4070, €398 for 4080, €518 for 4090. Hence, it is not that RTX 4000 Laptop gaps are insane per se but some manufacturers make them insane hoping we would blame Nvidia instead of them. --robert jasiek
@@vmafarah9473 not in lower wattages. Even a 4060 can be superior to a 3070 Ti at 80-100w for example. And most people don’t use Turbo modes but rather balanced profiles. Jet engines are annoying.
If I'm reading right, the 3080-ti has about the same performance level as a 4070 of the same wattage. So it would really depend on which one was on what sale. Personally I went with a razer blade 16 with 4070 and IPS and I'm very content with it, but I could definitely see going with a 12th gen intel, or AMD equivalent chip and a 3080-ti. It would be more than powerful enough to handle whatever one might want to throw at it
The 4070 can push almost the same performance at a slightly lower wattage. For example, the 100W 4070 in the Aero delivers roughly the same performance as the 140W variant in the G18. So it depends on how you look at it. But yeah, you are right. If you do not need the latest and greatest and want to spend 4080/4090 money, a high-end 2022 machine might be the best course of action right now. That said, machines like the Aero 16 with its 4070 are still capable if you want something more lifestyle or "creator"-focused. But for pure gaming laptops and proper 3080 Ti is a great option.
is this the best rtx 3080ti to buy or should i consider lenovo legion 7 rtx 3080ti with i912 gen or i rather go with rtx 4070 of 2023 for gaming??? please advise me chose between this 3 bcz am so confused nw
Just a heads up when Alienware Command Center is open it keeps the GPU active (polls it constantly) which in turn keeps the fans spinning. The x15 actually turns the fans off completely at idle when the GPU is not active.
Thanks for the heads-up. But in the case of our measurements on the website, the command center wasn't running. And while it might lead to a misrepresentation in my noise samples in the video, the X15 is mostly silent at idle, but you still get the occasional ramp-up-Command Center or not. Thanks for the info tho, I will keep it in mind for future videos!
Hmmm...The 16GB VRAM is very tempting. There's a second hand X15 for €1200 (15000 SEK) here in Sweden. Thunderbolt, 16GB VRAM and the keyboard are big selling points for me
The 4090 Laptop is the 4080 desktop, and so on. The so-called 4070 will be same specs as the 4060 desktop a card with at best 3070 (Ti) performance, so yeah of cousrese it's a mixed bag.
Very nice comparison, although i really missed wattages in graphs. I'm struggling with choosing between dell g16 with i9 13700hx and 4070 with 32 gb of ram and Alienware x15 r2 with i9 12700h and 3080ti and 32gb of ram. Alienware is more expensive for me by slightly over 150$ but I'm really in love with it's looking. I know that Alienware is really hot and reaches 100°C on stress tests which reduces the lifespan of components. I can't decide if I should spend more on older piece of technology, even though with both variants I'm far above my preferable comfort price limit
You will definitely get better build quality with the Alienware and 3080ti gives on average 5% better performance in games, of course you don't get DLSS 3.5 and frame generation. 3080ti also has more VRAM and higher memory bandwidth than 4070. The HX CPU in the G16 is still a 14 core processor like the 12700H, and I think offers 15% or so extra performance but at the cost of heat and battery life (unless you undervolt). Is your main use case gaming? If so, I'd probably go with the Alienware. In my region the X15 R2 (3080ti, 32GB, i7-12700H) is discounted now to only €1500 which is an absolute bargain considering it launched last year at almost €4000.
While I agree this design language is very interesting, and a big step forward in comparison to their older XTREME GAMER stuff that was all edges, it's hard to gloss over the fact how the device's footprint is so much larger than its screen size would otherwise indicate. Their cooling solution seems to be very robust and nicely engineered, but thin as it is, if it's about the size of an 16/17" device, and not far from their price, the tradeoff doesn't seem that worthwhile... I'm seeing 3070 Tis and 3080s priced at 4060/4070 levels, and those former models, usually being way higher in the hierarchy than the humbler cards, usually come with much nicer overall packages than the newer competition. It's very clear that the 4070 should be a 4060, the 4080 a 4070 and the 4090 a 4080, with prices to match. That, I think, is the generational uplift they had, but deliberately decided not to do. I'm not sold yet on the 4060, Jarrod's latest seems to indicate that it's slower or equal to a 3070 (non Ti!), yet it's priced at pretty much the same point. The one interesting usecase would be to substitute for the 3050s that are in things like the ASUS Z13, that's an interesting scenario. And even then, the painfully slow memory bandwidth rears its ugly head, reminding you that even if the 4060 has 8 GB of VRAM compared to the 6 GB on the 3060, that's 256 GB/s as opposed to 336 on the 3060- a 24% downgrade! So yes, I agree with the premise of the video- unless you have money for a 4080 or 4090, which are the two "real" cards of this gen so far- while still very overpriced, they still offer unmatched performance, so it's slightly forgivable- then RTX 3000 will probably land you with more or equal performance, better chassi and lower price. The two high end cards might not have a good value proposition, but they do have a performance one. Anything else, however, lacks either- no value due the price hikes, no performance that can't be matched by earlier gen at same or lower price. The one downside of going last gen for GPU is that I doubt we will see Ryzen 7000 and RTX 3000 laptops anytime soon, and with Ryzen 6000 vs Intel 12th gen, the trade between power consumption and performance is pretty clear, when Ryzen 7000 looks, from what little we've seen, like it smashes Intel on both categories. But really, I saw a Ryzen 5900H and RTX 3080 ASUS ROG laptop going for 1500 USD the other day, that's *insane* price:performance on a very fancy package. Sure, it's "only" about a 11th/12th gen *desktop* i5 in CPU performance... But that's honestly an overkill amount of CPU for anyone that isn't doing CPU-bound only tasks. More than enough to run games, MATLAB, SolidWorks, Pycharm, Photoshop, etc. Since Intel was forced to actually put in some effort due AMD's Ryzen, CPUs have gotten really fast for those of us that are more used to the tame pace of ~2010s CPU releases. The first wave of RTX 3000 laptops, with Ryzen 5000s and Intel 11th gen, might not *all* have the bells and whistles of the second wave that came with the CPU refresh, like omnipresente MUX switch, OLED/Mini-LED screens, etc, but the part that matters most, the performance and packaging, is absolutely there. And let's not forget that AMD is soon to release their own frame-generation tech, FSR 3! Which will, of course, be hardware-agnostic. And I think that's the biggest selling point of RTX4000 so far. Nice review Alex.
I couldn't agree more with everything you just said. Unless you have the cash to burn for something with a 4080/4090 it might be worth it to pick up something "older" or wait a few months until everything that was announced made its way to the market. Who knows, maybe prices will adjust if demand isn't there.
There have been reports of bad system software for old Alienwares and there are such reports of many severe bugs and 3 minutes delays on start for the Alienware m18 (and bad CPU pasting). What has been your related experience? --robert jasiek
While we had some initial problems with the X14/X17 and M17, my experience with the X15 was almost flawless. I remember the occasional longer-than-usual wait time when starting the command centre and relatively frequent updates. In the case of the other machines, a clean system reset and fresh instal of the command center solved our problems. It should be different from that, but you are not getting an unusable system, either. As for the M18, we have yet to receive any samples.
It really depends on the form factor I would say. The 4070 at around 100W might be a much better option in thin and light devices IF you do not need the smaller VRAM.
So true especially for Modding Skyrim or game developers. Only mainstream gamers who play COD and Apex Legends would benefit from the 4070 because of frame generation. 99% of games will never see its utilization any time soon at least.
While we still need more data on the 4050/4060, I agree. The 4090 is insane if money is no object, but a decent 4080, like in the Legion Pro 7, might be the sweet spot for now.
It seems like all the sub 80 class GPUs are gonna be horrible in price/performance. From the reviews I've seen the 4060 is only 15% faster than the 3060, and that review was with a new 13th gen CPU which probably accounted for a large percentage of that performance uplift.
@@theboogerbomb nah, the 4060 is roughly the same performance as 3070 (so 20-25% faster than 3060 depends on game, might be even bigger in games that require more than 6GB VRAM - like Forza Horizon 5 at Extreme Preset), and 4050 is about the same as 3060 (this is probably the best GPU of this generation, entry RTX GPU that can play almost every game at FHD High/Ultra settings). One advantage of RTX 40 series though is they're extremely efficient at low TGP (but scales pretty bad above 100W). A 105W 4050 I tested basically matches 140W 3060, and 55W 4060 is on par with 3070 85W.
At this point the 4070 feels more like a scam and less like a generational upgrade. Its clear NVIDIA was trying to steer everyone to their higher priced models, like the 4080/90. The gap between those is just insane.
I was actually pretty "happy" with it in the Aero 16 since it seems to perform quite adequate at lower wattages (65-100W). But unfortunately it scales quite bad above that, making it a less than ideal option in gaming focused laptops.
For the PCspecialist Recoil VII 17, the still reasonable price jumps are 4060 -> +€227 -> 4070 -> +€425 -> 4080 -> +€517 -> 4090.
For the XMG Neo 17 E23, the totally unreasonable price jumps are 4060 -> +€332 -> 4070 -> +€718 -> 4080 -> +€637 -> 4090.
In comparison, the XMG Neo 17 E23 includes these ripoff surcharges: €105 for 4070, €398 for 4080, €518 for 4090.
Hence, it is not that RTX 4000 Laptop gaps are insane per se but some manufacturers make them insane hoping we would blame Nvidia instead of them. --robert jasiek
Exactly
Last gen 3070ti is 1% faster than 4070 . And much faster when same cpu is used .
@@vmafarah9473 not in lower wattages. Even a 4060 can be superior to a 3070 Ti at 80-100w for example.
And most people don’t use Turbo modes but rather balanced profiles. Jet engines are annoying.
If I'm reading right, the 3080-ti has about the same performance level as a 4070 of the same wattage. So it would really depend on which one was on what sale. Personally I went with a razer blade 16 with 4070 and IPS and I'm very content with it, but I could definitely see going with a 12th gen intel, or AMD equivalent chip and a 3080-ti. It would be more than powerful enough to handle whatever one might want to throw at it
The 4070 can push almost the same performance at a slightly lower wattage. For example, the 100W 4070 in the Aero delivers roughly the same performance as the 140W variant in the G18. So it depends on how you look at it.
But yeah, you are right. If you do not need the latest and greatest and want to spend 4080/4090 money, a high-end 2022 machine might be the best course of action right now.
That said, machines like the Aero 16 with its 4070 are still capable if you want something more lifestyle or "creator"-focused. But for pure gaming laptops and proper 3080 Ti is a great option.
is this the best rtx 3080ti to buy or should i consider lenovo legion 7 rtx 3080ti with i912 gen or i rather go with rtx 4070 of 2023 for gaming??? please advise me chose between this 3 bcz am so confused nw
i bough in italy an alienware x15 like new with 12700h and rtx 3070ti for only 960 euro... it's absolutely a steal.
Just a heads up when Alienware Command Center is open it keeps the GPU active (polls it constantly) which in turn keeps the fans spinning. The x15 actually turns the fans off completely at idle when the GPU is not active.
Thanks for the heads-up. But in the case of our measurements on the website, the command center wasn't running. And while it might lead to a misrepresentation in my noise samples in the video, the X15 is mostly silent at idle, but you still get the occasional ramp-up-Command Center or not.
Thanks for the info tho, I will keep it in mind for future videos!
the 2023 x16 looks so much better than the m18. better colour, better chassis quality (cuz not full plastic).
I am still on the fence if I prefer the 2022 over the 2023 counterparts. But I have yet to see the new ones in person.
I would have already bought the x14 r2 HAD IT HAD AN RGB TRON RING!!!!
Amd's options are also competitive vs 40m...rx 6800m can be had for $1500
True, might be an idea for the next video ;)
Hmmm...The 16GB VRAM is very tempting. There's a second hand X15 for €1200 (15000 SEK) here in Sweden. Thunderbolt, 16GB VRAM and the keyboard are big selling points for me
The 4090 Laptop is the 4080 desktop, and so on. The so-called 4070 will be same specs as the 4060 desktop a card with at best 3070 (Ti) performance, so yeah of cousrese it's a mixed bag.
Very nice comparison, although i really missed wattages in graphs. I'm struggling with choosing between dell g16 with i9 13700hx and 4070 with 32 gb of ram and Alienware x15 r2 with i9 12700h and 3080ti and 32gb of ram. Alienware is more expensive for me by slightly over 150$ but I'm really in love with it's looking. I know that Alienware is really hot and reaches 100°C on stress tests which reduces the lifespan of components. I can't decide if I should spend more on older piece of technology, even though with both variants I'm far above my preferable comfort price limit
You will definitely get better build quality with the Alienware and 3080ti gives on average 5% better performance in games, of course you don't get DLSS 3.5 and frame generation. 3080ti also has more VRAM and higher memory bandwidth than 4070. The HX CPU in the G16 is still a 14 core processor like the 12700H, and I think offers 15% or so extra performance but at the cost of heat and battery life (unless you undervolt). Is your main use case gaming? If so, I'd probably go with the Alienware. In my region the X15 R2 (3080ti, 32GB, i7-12700H) is discounted now to only €1500 which is an absolute bargain considering it launched last year at almost €4000.
While I agree this design language is very interesting, and a big step forward in comparison to their older XTREME GAMER stuff that was all edges, it's hard to gloss over the fact how the device's footprint is so much larger than its screen size would otherwise indicate. Their cooling solution seems to be very robust and nicely engineered, but thin as it is, if it's about the size of an 16/17" device, and not far from their price, the tradeoff doesn't seem that worthwhile...
I'm seeing 3070 Tis and 3080s priced at 4060/4070 levels, and those former models, usually being way higher in the hierarchy than the humbler cards, usually come with much nicer overall packages than the newer competition.
It's very clear that the 4070 should be a 4060, the 4080 a 4070 and the 4090 a 4080, with prices to match. That, I think, is the generational uplift they had, but deliberately decided not to do.
I'm not sold yet on the 4060, Jarrod's latest seems to indicate that it's slower or equal to a 3070 (non Ti!), yet it's priced at pretty much the same point. The one interesting usecase would be to substitute for the 3050s that are in things like the ASUS Z13, that's an interesting scenario.
And even then, the painfully slow memory bandwidth rears its ugly head, reminding you that even if the 4060 has 8 GB of VRAM compared to the 6 GB on the 3060, that's 256 GB/s as opposed to 336 on the 3060- a 24% downgrade!
So yes, I agree with the premise of the video- unless you have money for a 4080 or 4090, which are the two "real" cards of this gen so far- while still very overpriced, they still offer unmatched performance, so it's slightly forgivable- then RTX 3000 will probably land you with more or equal performance, better chassi and lower price. The two high end cards might not have a good value proposition, but they do have a performance one. Anything else, however, lacks either- no value due the price hikes, no performance that can't be matched by earlier gen at same or lower price.
The one downside of going last gen for GPU is that I doubt we will see Ryzen 7000 and RTX 3000 laptops anytime soon, and with Ryzen 6000 vs Intel 12th gen, the trade between power consumption and performance is pretty clear, when Ryzen 7000 looks, from what little we've seen, like it smashes Intel on both categories.
But really, I saw a Ryzen 5900H and RTX 3080 ASUS ROG laptop going for 1500 USD the other day, that's *insane* price:performance on a very fancy package. Sure, it's "only" about a 11th/12th gen *desktop* i5 in CPU performance... But that's honestly an overkill amount of CPU for anyone that isn't doing CPU-bound only tasks. More than enough to run games, MATLAB, SolidWorks, Pycharm, Photoshop, etc.
Since Intel was forced to actually put in some effort due AMD's Ryzen, CPUs have gotten really fast for those of us that are more used to the tame pace of ~2010s CPU releases.
The first wave of RTX 3000 laptops, with Ryzen 5000s and Intel 11th gen, might not *all* have the bells and whistles of the second wave that came with the CPU refresh, like omnipresente MUX switch, OLED/Mini-LED screens, etc, but the part that matters most, the performance and packaging, is absolutely there.
And let's not forget that AMD is soon to release their own frame-generation tech, FSR 3! Which will, of course, be hardware-agnostic. And I think that's the biggest selling point of RTX4000 so far.
Nice review Alex.
I couldn't agree more with everything you just said. Unless you have the cash to burn for something with a 4080/4090 it might be worth it to pick up something "older" or wait a few months until everything that was announced made its way to the market. Who knows, maybe prices will adjust if demand isn't there.
You released a teaser for MSI Studio 17 a few days ago. When do we get to see full video?
I will wrap filming it tomorrow and then I have to edit, will be a week max from now on! 💪🏻
There have been reports of bad system software for old Alienwares and there are such reports of many severe bugs and 3 minutes delays on start for the Alienware m18 (and bad CPU pasting). What has been your related experience? --robert jasiek
While we had some initial problems with the X14/X17 and M17, my experience with the X15 was almost flawless. I remember the occasional longer-than-usual wait time when starting the command centre and relatively frequent updates.
In the case of the other machines, a clean system reset and fresh instal of the command center solved our problems. It should be different from that, but you are not getting an unusable system, either.
As for the M18, we have yet to receive any samples.
it's nuts to think that some laptop with a 2080m are better wasn't for the limitations of the cpu, wish there were 8cores pared with those
I do not think a 2080m can keep up with even a 30-series mobile chip, even if it was paired with a modern CPU. Wouldnt you agree?
@@NotebookcheckReviews well sure but dont forget rtx 3050s are just dog manure also 4050 and 4060
I think it really depends on the machine. I do not think you can generally dismiss this class of GPUs.
It's great laptop. I will upgrade from M15 r3 with 2070 super to this Alienware x15 with 3080 ti
I liked the form factor a lot! For how much are these going? I feel like the x16 is on sale a lot as well!
Even the 3070 ti is a better option then the 4070 at this price point...
In raw rasterization performance you might be right. But do not forget frame generation and the much better content creation performance.
Thanks for doing this
Any time!
Informative
I am glad we could help!
3080ti 16gb >>> 4070 8gb
It really depends on the form factor I would say. The 4070 at around 100W might be a much better option in thin and light devices IF you do not need the smaller VRAM.
So true especially for Modding Skyrim or game developers. Only mainstream gamers who play COD and Apex Legends would benefit from the 4070 because of frame generation. 99% of games will never see its utilization any time soon at least.
4050 4060 4080 are GPUs to buy 4070 and 4090 have worse performance/price ratio
While we still need more data on the 4050/4060, I agree. The 4090 is insane if money is no object, but a decent 4080, like in the Legion Pro 7, might be the sweet spot for now.
It seems like all the sub 80 class GPUs are gonna be horrible in price/performance. From the reviews I've seen the 4060 is only 15% faster than the 3060, and that review was with a new 13th gen CPU which probably accounted for a large percentage of that performance uplift.
I think we only tested one laptop with a 4060 on the website yet, and that was an "entry level" MSI Katana for well above 2000 Euros :O
@@theboogerbomb nah, the 4060 is roughly the same performance as 3070 (so 20-25% faster than 3060 depends on game, might be even bigger in games that require more than 6GB VRAM - like Forza Horizon 5 at Extreme Preset), and 4050 is about the same as 3060 (this is probably the best GPU of this generation, entry RTX GPU that can play almost every game at FHD High/Ultra settings). One advantage of RTX 40 series though is they're extremely efficient at low TGP (but scales pretty bad above 100W). A 105W 4050 I tested basically matches 140W 3060, and 55W 4060 is on par with 3070 85W.
The RTX4090M is superior to RTX 3090TI desktop and it's compared to 4070 desktop how it's worse performance ?