Will The Hill HX50 Helicopter Actually Happen? (2023 Update)
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- Опубликовано: 18 июн 2024
- In this video we discuss the Hill HX50. On December 9 2023, Hill presented the HX50 to the public. During an in-depth presentation talking design, performance, and production status. I give a breakdown of the most important parts of the presentation and my final thoughts. Let me know your thoughts down in the comments below and don't forget to subscribe!
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As a trained engineer, I've spent over 30 years in Engineering and Manufacturing (worked at Boeing commercial airplane group and Silicon Valley) bringing new products to full production ramp. I also was there in person at the roll-out in Duxford and was at the previous owners meeting in 2022. I talked at length with several of the Hill engineers. The powerplant is probably the most difficult problem to solve. I have a lot of faith in Dr. Hill and the small team that they've assembled to build the prototypes. As you said, they're in a good spot but a lot of the really difficult work (MFG ramp and certifications) is ahead. With that said, I believe they'll do it and they have the kind of people that won't take no for an answer - they'll eventually figure it out. This will change the face of Helicopter general aviation. If I had any doubts, those were 18 months ago, before I put $$ down on a helicopter which won't be delivered for a few years. They're problem solvers - this will become a major force in the vertical flight category.
Thank you for this comment, it provided me with some good insight. I wish them all the luck and I believe they can do it too but the journey is an uphill battle. I'm really excited to follow the project! Keep in touch
@@PilotDevin Hill has just released this video ruclips.net/video/hK0qdGExH8g/видео.htmlsi=Rm_Kp7sVKRG4RC3Y
which speaks to some of the complexities thus far - and I'm not saying that it is easy, but they're building momentum and a track record with me at least. Looking forward to see how things go in 2024!
I am really excited for them, they have a great team
They obviously did work it out, the helicopter is being showcased at HAI this year, what an amazing machine! it looks like the European Sports Car of Helicopters. The digital flight Panel is just amazing as well, it like the inside of a Tesla or something. very cool Bird.
They may do it. But not for $750,000. Maybe $7,000,000
I've been a pilot/mechanic for over 40 years. I currently have a 407. I've not only followed this design, I put in deposits for a few. You have to remember that even the 407 is 60's technology. The Rolls Royce engine was designed with a slide ruler in a smoke filled room. I'm sure Jason will have some setbacks, but I believe in he will succeed. I also attended the Duxford and HAI displays. He drew quite a crowd at both. I think we just need a bit of patience instead of beating on his team for reaching some of these timelines.
Hear hear!
I’ve got my own design and engineering company near to Jason Hills base and have known him for many years. He is an incredible individual and totally solid on every level. He’s an incredibly rare talent as an exceptional engineer, great business man and visionary.
We discussed his vision over lunch some years ago and I remember thinking that this is incredible. However it’s such an immense task it will be almost impossible to get it going. That said I thought there’s probably only a few people in the world to be blessed with the capability to pull this off - Jason being one of them.
This is definitely not a scam. It’s amazing he has got this far with such an incredible product already. He’s a very talented guy with a superb team around him. In my eyes he’s way above the other people lauded as superb engineers and innovators. He’s actually a very talented person from an ordinary background who has risked everything to follow his dream. I hope he receives all the rewards and success he deserves.
Is that you, Jason?..........
😂 No, definitely not Jason. Just look for design companies in Stafford if in doubt
I don't see this making scaled production without at least a few billion dollar of investment.
I (as well) attended the Dec 2023 event for the unveiling of HX50. Shoving the naysayers to the side for a moment..BRAVO Jason and his team at Hill Helicopters. Flying around 50+ year old designs with archaic engines, inefficient transmissions and uncomfortable interiors was ripe for a well prepared entrepreneur to succeed albeit with Jason’s much appreciated panache, using the latest CAD assisted airfoil designs, proven manufacturing techniques and introducing the newest of aero space metals & composites into general aviation light helicopters.
Awesome... been following them since they didnt even have a building... they will 100% get this done... they better bc I'm getting one lol.
I would love to see them get it done aswell!!
Good video...thanks for making this. I will order a Hill for sure.
Thank you for your opinion! I just see it as a PR stunt until they are certified. It’s easy to build concept cars or - in this case - concept helicopters. A good flying prototype with all systems working and certification are the hard parts… Let’s wait and see. I wish them luck but don’t expect them to succeed. 😅
I agree.
You're completely uninformed and are making assumptions based on ignorance. It's 'easy to build a concept helicopter'? This is a 'PR stunt'? Ridiculous statements...
Great observation I love your presentation answered a lot of questions that I had and I can’t wait for it to go into production
It’s the best looking helicopter I’ve ever seen.
Finally a helicopter with a nice interior
Watching that full video was so painful.
Why?
It's amazing.
I've thought about making a turbine engine and it's actually pretty simple. Keep in mind they did these in the 1960s as routine and today you can just order manufacturing online. You could genuinely have a jet engine factory that just assembles ordered parts. A turbine engine uses inconel alloy for the hot parts which is commercially available as a standard, both machining and even 3D print. The rest is either steel, alu or titanium, also available. Even the ball bearings aren't exotic materials, pretty much off the shelf you can order. You have simulation software that can give you direction on sizing, it's actually very doable today. 1 man home office without getting his hands dirty could do it. And the reason it is smart to do rather than buy a P&W is that the scumbag industry is very comfortable in grotesque overpricing. Hill is trying to sell an entire helicopter for 750k. P&W wants more than that just for one engine. And when the engine needs service they want 600k for that.
A turbine engine is actually engineering wise similar to a car turbo which retails for 300$. Same materials, same temperatures, same durability and actually turbos spin much faster than larger turbine engines. A jet engine just looks convoluted and a turboprop has a gearbox as well but it's really quite crude technology. Frank Whittle invented it in the 1930s and it could have been built 40 years prior. That's more than 100 years ago. It's an absolute disgrace that the douche turbine world can only think in 7 figures when the truth is, it's an angry space heater that you should pick up in a hardware store next to lawn tractors.
Speaking in Elon terms the idiot index on a small jet engine is huge. The factor between material cost and the final product cost.
PW610f is the smallest turbojet engine in production that the Eclipse 550 twin jet uses. It weighs 145kg, in refined metals that's about 3000$. The 2023 price for one engine was 920k$. Probably just about 1 million now. Per engine. So because of those scumbags, just OEM engine cost is 2million for a small jet plane that they wanted to sell for 500k total retail originally.
A lot of people are the problem in aviation. The engine makers are definitely a problem. So it's smart to make their own. And when you are confident that it's something you can do, it's generally because it is something you can do. I'd guesstimate that they can produce that engine for less than 20k$. Possibly a lot less.
The Leonardo/kopter AW-09+ started out on a similar path as the Marenco SKY-E SH09 and I too was a doubter of the likelihood of success before becoming part of the team through the turbine provider at the time (Honeywell). Admittedly, Marenco was similarly ambitious to source everything possible, with the engine (Honeywell later Safran) and avionics (Sagem later Garmin) being the only exceptions. Admittedly, Marenco was biting off more than they could chew and eventually backed off on sourcing other components (e.g. hydraulic pumps) rather than developing them from scratch. All said and done, Marenco did an amazing job designing and building three flying prototypes before eventually being acquired by Leonardo, who has built the fourth (first partially conforming) prototype to begin certification flight testing. I suspect certification is still at least a couple years out given the limited flight test resources (another couple aircraft to be built), but the program viability is no longer in question. Needless to say, it is at a much higher price point than the HX50/HC50 and developing/certifying an all new gas turbine engine is likely to take longer than the airframe.
I thought your video was ok but your clickbait heading "SCAM?" was extremely distasteful and unnecessary to be honest.
I'm sure Jason can overcome the manufacturing challenges. The big issue I see.... is how you can ultimately offer a better , faster machine than the competition for a lot less money? I don't think this is a proven or sustainable business model.
Jason can’t do crap. It’s a scam.
In house development and the manufacturing process is how theya re able to pass on the cost... not to mention, current helo companies are inefficient and greedy.
Look at what you are saying. this business model is the business model in the manufacturing game
I saw the video and read the comments. The American audience here (not all) still think that the US and the US way is much better and they know everything . One must sit down and read the comments and then think about what is said and may have been written here. Regards Euroepan Heli and fixed wing former CP. New innovation in the aero structure industry has long left the USA.
I've followed Dr. Hill and this project for a while now and I can assure naysayers that he and his team are fully aware of all the challenges noted here. Hill has a terrific team and they're all able problem solvers, completely dedicated to the successful production of this heli. There has never been a guarantee that the prices will stay at these levels and nor would they need to.
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Ohh fancy. An led nav light. Every hillbilly with a pontoon boat did this last summer.
haha
Remember the first launch of the Ciabertruck price, well going on that the final price will be 120% higher 😮A
They have made steady and significant progress against their plans, and so far seem to be on schedule. They have overcome a lot to get to where they are at ~1,000 pre-orders already. Each of those orders comes with a down payment, so they already have millions in the bank from those. They do not seem to be hurting for money, and recently secured their production location. Based on their steady progress, I feel like they have a good chance at succeeding. Perhaps their rate of production will take a while to ramp up, but I believe they will have initial flights within a year, and production ramping up in two years.
They are way behind. They said a flying prototype this year and they have not started engine tests yet. The engine testing is a massive project. Avionics are a massive project. No way I would put my money there. Did Mr hill also just buy a R66 as well.
@@irisaviation852 My understanding was a flying prototype in 2024 (not 2023), which gives them a whole year to get through engine and electronics testing. Based on their progress to-date, I wouldn't be surprised if they can get that done in a year.
@@DanielShipley ok, let’s see. Maybe I was wrong. Let’s hope something flies next year.
@@DanielShipley I have been following the development of the HX since day 1. They originally promised 2 flying prototypes by now. They then pushed that back and changed the timeline on the website. Over the last 3-4 years, they are approximately 12-18 months behind their expectations.
@@Sergeant898 Where is the timeline posted on the web site? I have never seen it. I would like to take a look at that.
I haven't been following Hill since Day 1, but have been for about the last two years. During that time things seem to have been moving along well, and roughly according to Jason's more recent forecast. Maybe their schedule slipped before I began watching Hill, but that doesn't surprise me too much, given the massive undertaking.
Okay I hope this product is a success , I have to say light shows and fast talking really really annoy me!!!
If you have to compare with car, someone who done everything intern is Koenigsegg. I think that a exemple to follow. On the long run having total control on everything is a big advantage. And what Hill is trying to achieve is this niche luxury, hypercar kind of market but for helicopter.
Interesting comparison. He is charging less than the cheapest mass-produced certified turbine helicopter (The R66) - Koenigsegg that costs less than a Corolla
@@Niko-qs1sl I take that any day.
YOU BROUGHT UP A POINT I HAVE BEEN THINKING ABOUT. IS IT GOING TO BE EASY TO PREFLIGHT WITH THOSE COVERS ON EVERYTHING. IT IS BEAUTIFUL AND STREAMLINE BUT ONE STILLS NEEDS TO BE ABLE TO PUT EYES AND HANDS ON THE DIFFERENCE COMPONENTS BEFORE FLIGHT. MAYBE THEY COVERED THIS ALREADY AND I MISSED IT.
Exactly my thoughts!
I would have imagine they have a way for mechanics and pilots to open the shroud that would open and close for inspection.
Yes, it's obviously not something they've not thought about. Hill is a pilot himself...
This will be such a jump from a R66 if they manage to get it done at the price they are hoping for!
I have no expertise in airframe design or propulsion, but I love the fact Hill is dragging cockpit design and User Interface into the 21st century; for me, the majority of cockpits are still in the steam age. I appreciate pilots are taught how to scan their instrumentation, but there has to be a better way. I admire the Bell 505 especially. The cockpit and Avionics reduce the pilot's workload. I love Airbus helicopters, but their cockpits are so 1970's. Best wishes to Hill Helicopters; they are an industry disrupter that is well overdue.
Do you prefer skids or wheels?
Rich people don’t generally fly themselves. They have a pilot.
The enclosed rotor head and mast is good for wire and bird strikes.
I don’t think they have thought about using the helicopter in a hot environment as the iPad will overheat and take about 20-30 min to be USABLE again.
Devin, your doubts about the manufacturing has been my concern with the whole concept from day one. ( I worked 11 years in the F1, NASCAR and INDY Car industry as a fabricator/welder so I understand the manufacturing challenges ahead of them)
Funding the development and prototyping is one thing.
Where will the money come from to build a factory capable of producing the numbers required to fulfill the current orders?
I have walked through ROBINSON Helicopters factory and their expansion never happened overnight. They produce up to 300 helicopters a year in a facility that has had all the gremlins worked out over a 40 year period.
I personally have more confidence in a company that manufactures and take responsibility for every part they make instead of being a company that manufacture an aircraft but have to use engine from another company like GE and cabin doors from another company like spirits aerospace. That way there is no chance to blame other parts manufacturers when the S*** hit the fan. Ps they already had 2 helicopters on the floor.
I completely agree with your assessment of their point of development. It is possible they have almost peaked, as they haven't reached the really hard part of the journey yet. I think they have made a lot of changes to the typical function of the helicopter which will catch a few pilots out, and cause mistakes leading to crashes and probably deaths. I'm not saying the HX will be at fault, but at this point I think the digital display layout and graphics may be form over function.
IMO there is no way they will produce the numbers they promise for many years. That could lead to mass cancellations and major cash flow problems.
If they don't immediately produce a perfect heli with no faults, people will die and they will be in big trouble as the setbacks may bury Hill.
Ultimately we all need them to succeed though. The helicopter/aviation industry is outdated and should catch up to the car industry.
Look at the Kopter bought by AW. That is what is required now, they are a product of air safety, product testing and continuous testing.
7 airframes so far!
bonk bonk pr prank. BUT I'm a huge fan. Yet let's see it really run/fly and I'll purchase one for sure. I am tired of Robinson and Bell's attitudes.
The manufacturer of the engine and transmission systems is very expensive. They must be approved by the FAA And they have to be tested and tested and tested not just in running good but also every part of them has to be taken apart and tested after being built and tested. It’s an absolute nightmare for anyone with an engine idea or transmission idea not to mention the cost of testing the airframe because it’s new and not a version that’s been built. There in for a long road ahead. But it’s a beautiful design.
You said it exactly right. I Wouldn't change a word of what you said. Cheers!
Dr Hill is a doctor in aerodynamics and structure and he is not alone on this. of course everything is covered. Hill is making the existing better in a new envelope with some new patented innovations. they will manufacture the engine themselves. It is the UK CAA that is the initial testing approving authorities, not Boeing FAA. then it will be approved in CAA Canada before the FAA and many others.
Also to me it looks like their is not alot of headroom . Let alone if you fly with a helmet
I'm 6' tall, and I sat in all of the seats (even in the back) and they've made ample room for most people (97th percentile) even wearing helmets. One of their engineers sat in the middle back seat and is 6ft 4in and he had about another 6 inches of clearance before his head touched the interior roof. (Note: getting into the front seats is a bit challenging for tall people getting through the entry, but they're addressing that aspect in a future update).
I like the concept, But don't like that everything is proprietary to them. Easier and more cost effective for a owner/operator to get certain things locally. lights, filter etc... and a toned down utility version would be nice to, not everyone wants a luxury or sports car. especially in the experimental version.
They can put a car in your hands that is every bit as technically advanced and safety checked more so than most personal aircraft for well under 100k$. Why cant this be done in aviation, probably to keep most people out of it is what I think. Keep aircraft out of the reach of the general population. There are already too many people for the liability involved. What excites me about this is that it starts to bring the costs down to what I think is reasonable. At first glance my thoughts were probably start around 2 to 3 million and up but under 1 million. It can and should be done. If these things were more affordable they would sell more of them making the revenue increase for the company who makes them rather than trying to keep afloat by selling few very expensive units to exclusive buyers. Ultimately the product will be better if they have a larger market with more money involved.
So what are you saying that anyone who has followed the hx50 for a while doesnt allready know??
Corrections: 1) @ :18 "...in production..." Nothing is in production, or is ready to be in production, since nothing has been shown to work at all, much less to spec. 2) @ 25:43 "...two prototypes..." These are mockups, full scale models, or at best: non-functional prototypes.
I've been watching since the very beginning, and many design ideas, numerous re-designs and how to make the parts, and out of what material, seem to be a large case of "on the job training" When Hill announced they were building the turbine engine is when I began to doubt the entire project. When Hill announced they are making their own bearings and gears is when it became obvious that, as stated in one of the "Godfather" movies: "You don't even know, what you don't know!" They may, with luck, have a working* engine in 2025. Maybe . Good luck to all with a neat design.
*working = full FADEC, full power for hundreds of hours with various loads (including shock) at all temperatures.
Its happening
It looks cool, but I don't put to much interest on thing that I cannot go test and take delivery the same day, I don't see this happening anytime soon with that project.
Where this becomes a scam is if these people have lured in investors promising the world of success when the successful outcome is almost ZERO IMO. As a 30 year EMS twin turbine IFR helicopter mechanic this thing is a pipe dream. Yeah, it looks cool but I'd rather have something more realistic.
This helicopter will NEVER be under $1mil if they reach their design goals in the final product.
Id be very worried investing in this company. They buy a load of cheap land for their global hq on an industiral estate that is very close to houses. Very close to a railway. No fire and rescue service. No permission to build and fly helicopters. They have now (for how long who knows) partnered with an actual airfield with the right facilities and permissions but why wasnt this thought about in the first place? Tatenhill is down the road from this so called hq yet they beleived that they could get all this signed off on an unsuitable site. Ambition over ecperience while burning money. It has an oceangate vibe to it
I love the helicopter. it looks amazing. I watched the whole presentation. I was put off by his comment about landings because one of his presenters said he likes the one with skids. He took a low blow at that. I like the one with skids, which looks more, but I'm aware they want to sell the more expensive options. For his speaking, only snobs can digest.
Really I don't see the contra's. Engineering is there, electronics are there. If you forget about the multitasking roles of MBB, Airbus and the likes but just want to propose a simple heli with an acceptable speed and mileage, so what 's the problem? If it is a feasible project, engines are tested over and over again, as are the drive trains, testing wouldn't take that long. My humble opinion.
it actually has happened, it is being showcased at HAI as we speak, what a cool helicopter and is without a doubt going to give Airbus, Bell, and Agusta some competition for sure especially in the price range!
I would sooner see an ugly duck flying that will turn into a swan rather than a beautified swan that cannot fly.
I'm not sure how anyone paying attention to the details of the aircraft and the progress being made would be able to say this won't make it to fruition. They're VERY close to a completed airship. But I guess these titles get clicks.
You’re kidding, right?
It felt like a Tesla "product unveil" to me, and in retrospect knowing it's not a flying prototype makes it seem even more like one. Hope it makes it though, even if it's target audience "are used to driving all the new hypercars" and all. 🙄
I hope they make it aswell!
There is a reason the number of manufacturers in all of aviation has decreased. Its really hard to make money. Developing and certifying new models can break even established brands let alone a startup.
Exactly right
Only the USA have Donald duck insurance prices and payoffs. And they will underwrite the helicopter parts themselves.
This whole thing seems kind of sketchy. They seem more focused on appearances than the actual engineering. Seems like they are more interested in raising money from investors.
Exactly. It’s just a big Ted talk. It will never happen.
No way, suuuuper focused on engineering. If you watched any of their vidoes they are all 100% about engineering haha.
I love the concept and the production, BUT I have severe worries about the financing and ability to get it to production. The coming financial crash we are heading into will destroy everyone in business. It is so ambitious to make everything involved, no other company can make everything involved. Good luck but I see all the customers base melting away in a year when they and their businesses go bust themselves.
No
You said it yourself you only fly helicopters, you know nothing about manufacturing
You should stick to flying helicopters, and leave the design and manufacturing to people who know more about it than you ever will.......
I went to the event at Duxford on 7th Dec 23. The 2 mockups were gorgeous and the fit and finish while not perfect (these are protypes) they were exceptional by aircraft standards. There was a lot of excitement about the HX50 in the room, there were also some experienced people talking about the challenges they face.
One thing they do have is a man wilth Elon Musk-like vision and passion for the project in Dr Jason Hill. They also have a lot of money and good-will from people with deposits already placed. Let's see how their patience is tested further down the track.
I am not a buyer, or a pilot. Perhaps I might be catgorised as a fan but sitting in both of these prototypes the other day 2 things struck me; one was how much I wanted to see HX50 succeed, the second was "I want one"
Thank you for this comment. I look forward to hearing about the journey and production process. Dr. Hill seems to be an incredible man with a vision. I wish them nothing but sucess!
if you truly mean that change your comment/click bait "scam"@@PilotDevin