Sega 32X test on Mega Retron HD by Hyperkin + How the Sega 32X works on Sega Genesis Model 1
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Testing out the 32X on the Mega Retron HD by Hyperkin plus an elaborate breakdown of how the 32X work on the original Sega Genesis model 1
The 90s are back with the Hyperkin MegaRetroN HD, a premium retro console that plays Genesis (US)/Mega Drive (outside US) cartridges in brilliant 720p HD. It includes one (1) premium, classic-style "Squire" controller, a 3 ft. HD cable (supports 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratio), and a 6 ft. Micro cable. You can even play via AV with the provided AV cable. Relive your childhood the right way, with the only powerhouse that can handle these 16-bit masterpieces in the modern age.
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We need a 32x clone console
They should make new games for the 32x.They should make more games for the 32x.Some games that they didn't make for the 32x they should.Like even a better version of the games on the 16bit
This was a great video! Very informative! I never knew much about how the 32X and Genesis worked together all these years until I watched this!
Thank you
I would have just made the mega retron able to play 32x games out of the box that makes the most sense
Yea, that would have been the smarter choice
Interesting!!! Crazy timing of this upload because I just bought a 32x yesterday, and both versions of Virtua Racing. Must be destiny, I must sub :)
Nice
(MORE THAN YOU PROBABLY WANTED TO KNOW ABOUT THE SEGA GENESIS / 32X / SEGACD AUDIO/VIDEO PATHS)
The 32X supplied a pair of PCM audio channels beyond what was present in the Genesis, although I don't know if any games actually used it (based on the videos of Mortal Kombat 2 32X floating around youtube, I'd suspect that some of the samples are in fact played by the 32X and not the Genesis since they aren't scratchy).
The Genesis cartridge port provided two audio input signals (Left and Right) for cartridges that supplied their own onboard sound chips. The 32X had an onboard audio mixer, which mixed any audio coming from a cartridge plugged into the 32X, with the two PCM channels it could generate, and fed it (via the cartridge port lines) to the Genesis, which mixed its YM2612/PSG with any audio form the cartridge port (which in this case would be the 32X's PCM channels), and output it in stereo via the headphone jack, and out the AV port in mono for version 1 genesis and stereo for subsequent versions (if your AV port was mini-din, you had stereo out). The 32X passes the audio left/right signal from its VIDEO_IN connector (from the Genesis AV Out) directly through to the VIDEO_OUT connector untouched and unmixed (meaning that you don't suddenly get stereo output from the 32X AV OUT if you have a Model 1 Genesis).
Things got more interesting if you had a SegaCD. The SegaCD had a mini audio input jack, which accepted the Genesis stereo audio from the headphone jack and mixed it with the CD audio as well as its own onboard 8-channel PCM sound chip, and the mixed output was put out on RCA jacks. However, if the headphone jack was NOT plugged in (to the SegaCD), the Sega CD would instead route the stereo CD-audio and 8-channel PCM to the Genesis via the cartridge port audio inputs (which were the same signal present on the cartridge port but duplicated on the expansion port). Therefore, if you have a Model 1 Genesis, the only way to hear all SegaCD, Genesis, and 32X audio in STEREO is to use the mini audio jack path from the Genesis to the SegaCD and pick up your audio at the SegaCD's RCA audio jacks. Model 2+ owners can forego the mini audio jack cable path and just use a stereo AV cable (without the mini audio jack, the audio on the RCA connectors is just whatever is produced by the SegaCD), although the presence of both the SegaCD AND 32X driving an audio signal at the same time (in this configuration) would probably distort the audio.
The video is path isn't quite as tortuous. Video generated by the Genesis VDP is output on the AV port as Composite video, Composite Sync, and analog RGB (horizontal and vertical sync signals are output to pins on the cartridge slot). The 32X feeds the analog RGB as well as the Composite video and sync signals from the Genesis into a video switcher/composite video generator IC. This switcher IC uses the composite-in signals ONLY to synchronize the color (chrominance) carrier frequency for encoding the video output; actual video color data is taken from either the Genesis analog RGB or the 32X analog RGB, which the 32X can choose on a pixel-by-pixel basis. There are no transparency/mixing effects of the video signal, each pixel is either the VDP output or the 32X output. The 32X synchronizes its video output with the VDP output by sampling the HSYNC and VSYNC signals which are present on the cartridge port. This means that even if you don't have the video in cable connected, the 32X will still generate a display in perfect sync with the Genesis (a requirement for the video switcher; this allows the 32X to "overlay" its video on top of the Genesis). The SegaCD has no video output hardware; instead it has dedicated hardware to perform scaling and rotation algorithms in a format friendly to the Genesis's VDP chip, but as the VDP cannot access the RAM on the SegaCD (where this work is done), it must be copied through the 68000 system bus into Genesis RAM.
I suspect that the Retron probably lacks the Horizontal/Vertical sync outputs on the cartridge port, meaning that the 32X would never be able to lock on and synchronize its video signal.
Info is good!
Great video; thanks for giving this a try! There are at least three lines on the cartridge port that are required specifically for the 32x to function and need to be connected to the correct pins on the ASIC on the Nomad and Genesis 3 for 32x to work; those may not even be implemented on this console.
Cool
Genesis render 1st layer and 32x render 2nd layer. Then 2 layers are merged in 32x then output to TV.
Thanks for this video. This is a great explanation of WHY it doesn't work vs them saying "no it's not compatible"...however since we know WHY it doesn't work, maybe Hyperkin can get a second revision made to work with the 32X, it obviously doesn't seem like it would be too hard. if the Sega CD works the same way, maybe it could be supported in the future too....or even a Sega CD clone console
Man sega was pupler back in the 90s and now new generation wanna play retro games
Thats because they HAD to make a game good despite (or maybe because of) the limitations they had to work within. So when a game was released it was as good as it could be and lived or died by how much people enjoyed that final product. That just isn't the case anymore and gaming is suffering because of it. It's also why you see the really good games coming from indy developers or small studios these days.
Yep. Total puplar.
Good stuff man, bummer this didn't work
Awesome vid! Subbed!
I got Virtua Racing for the 32X.
nice!!!!
Sega 32X working in Mega Retron?¿??
Oh snap, Game Doctors! I remember they installed my modchip in my original playstation. I heard they eventually got raided and shut down.
does 32X works on Sega Genesis Flashback?
Would it be possible to add a board that has sync rgb etc to the Mega HD and it work?
Maybe there also seems to be something in the cartridge slot not communicating with the 32x properly as well maybe not enough voltage or too much. Because I can not get any video from the output of the 32x. When I am plugged in to the Genesis model 1 with no patch cable and just the AV out cable hooked up from the 32x I get a scrambled video output that shows brief glimpses of the game.
Only early clones like Scorpion are able to play 32x (with some modification) and MegaCd (native),because they were REAL clones and not emulation chips or whatever you like to call them.
Same goes for the NES with some of the early famiclones.
Taiwanese power.
Was this tried yet, connecting a Genesis Model 2/3 AV Cable from 32x to the AV Ports on the Megaretron and then connecting HDMI to HDMI TV Port. Maybe it is crazy logic with 32x but maybe just maybe this wasn't attempted
You can make a circuit to get the comp sync signal from the composite out of the Retron and feed the composite signal to all three RGB in on the 32x and make the genesis graphics output in black and white. It will make it sort of playable, just no color from the Genesis graphics...I would be funny to get it working and show it! HAHA! also, anyway probably there are RGB pads inside the Retron that you could wire up a Genesis 2 av jack/cable in the back.
Do you need a bracket for the 32x to work with The Genesis model 1?
You don't need the spacer but you do need the cartridge RF brackets. ALso you need a cable from the mega drive 1 to the 32x. The 32x I got had only a cable for the mega drive 2 and you had to buy an extra cable for the mega drive 1. Also you can get a cable that adds the audio from the headphones jack to the cable. This means you get stereo sound.
You should try the power base converter if it will play it
To fix that probles, use an ISL59885 zo seperate the C-sync from the F-Bas signal , or use that here to genrade an full NTSC to RGB decoder, if you are in USA, the same exists for PAL too...
www.seekic.com/circuit_diagram/Measuring_and_Test_Circuit/NTSC_RGB_VIDEO_DECODER.html
I don't think you can really say that the 32X has a 2D chip. A frame buffer maybe but its the 2 32bit chips that do all the heavy lifting.
As for the Genesis only doing a little bit of the graphics. It really depends on the game.
The SH2 chips are not very good at 2D, specifically tile scrolling. So you will find that in Knuckles Chaotix that its the MegaDrive/Genesis doing most of the work with the 32X just doing the 'sprite' work, which enables the scaleing effects and what not. Plus also the 32X does most of of work in the special stage.
However in games like Virtua Racing and Virtua Fighter, like was said, the 32X does the 3D work with mostly just the background being done on the MegaDrive/Genesis.
That's not to say that the 32bit chips can't do 2D. It just can't do it well. This can be seen with games like Pitfall. Pitfall has an improved and expanded colour palette but the game runs at half the frame rate of the MegaDrive/Genesis version of pitfall.
This is all because the 16bit console has specialised hardware that pushes around 2D tiles very quickly where as the 32bit add on doesn't really have any speclaised hardware and everything is effectively running in a software render mode with the general purpose dual CPUs doing everything.
This means that the 32X has great flexibility. For instance there is no hardware limit on the number of sprites it could display, although you could say there is a soft limit on what it can display before the frame rate drops below what ever rate the developer wants to set.
That was the longest way of saying "You can't plug it in." that I've ever heard. Lol
Although, it was pretty cool to see the 32x running without the genesis portion. 👍
Fair enough. But I did say right off the bat that it does not work. I wanted to explain why it doesn't work in detail and demonstrate how it actually functions to give everyone a better understanding of the 32x. I can make it plug in and I could probably hijack a video sync internally on the board but it doesn't seem to communicate with the MegaRetron in 32x mode. So there is more to it than not being able to plug in.
Why on earth did they not make it a mega retron 32x console with usb dvd support to allow mega cd games it would have been future proof.
@Marc Carran I think the idea is to bring new tech to allow the ability to use original media.
The Mega CD has its own extra chips in it which would require either more powerful hardware in the Mega Retron or extra chips.
I have not really looked into the Mega Retron so I don't know if its a 'Genesis on a chip' or some arm based emulator thing.
If it's a Genesis on a chip then the price if the chip would I would guess double to add all the extra hardware needed.
(My guess is its a Genesis on a chip because Virtua Racing works with its SVP chip and normally emulated clone consoles don't work with VR. But like I said that's an educated guess)
That's not even thinking about the grey area around including a bios.
What is the equivalent of 32X in today's technology?
gameboy advance, maybe
u say that all the sound comes from the genesis but that isn't true. The 32x has it's own sound chip that works in conjunction but not all 32x games use it.
Also some of the graphics that strictly come from the genesis still take advantage of the extra colors from the 32x
Mk2 is a great example. 98 percent of the graphics are from the genesis but with added color. Also the music is from the genesis while the voice samples are from the 32x.
I don't believe these can be split apart or tested by unplugging wires because it's all through the cartridge slot. Unplugging the wire only separates the graphics from each system but not the color or sound.
The sound outputs through the Genesis and then back to the 32x
@@8-Bit_Flashback right but also back to the genesis. Since i think u can get the 32x sounds out of the genesis headphone jack. Lots of 32x games have better sound than genesis alone. Like AfterBurner or the sampled intro in Tempo.
I don’t understand the logical sense behind this unless that retron hd genesis lacks the essential pin to bootup the 32X.
BTW i wish you tested those hdmi adaptors in front of us just for the damn sake,, oh well.
I didn't want to put people to sleep during the video... it got really boring testing and seeing nothing but black screens lol.
8 Bit Flashback yeah it’s pretty strange that black screen, let’s hope for a future genesis version with 32X support right out of the box because there’re already waaay enough genesis clones on the market.
Awww man your genesis model 1 is the stinker! Trade it in for a later model 1 with any where from a Va3 to Va6 motherboard that Va7 doesn’t even have the Yamaha sound chip RIP
Im soooo glad i sold my 32x worst hyped nothing add on , , ,was a complete waste of my $$$ money and time my SNES versions of DOOM and Mortal Kombat2 ran more stable in gameplay and the SNES MK2 ran faster than 32X yuk , , can't emphasize the full level 32X SUCKs at , toss it and never look back , , 😞🙀🙏😔
Interesting
That's super really Interesting
. It has the potential but that involves to mod. Still great awesome video my friend.
That's some pretty good troubleshooting you done there, covered all the bases as to why it's not working.
Thank you
This might be a dumb thing to a lot of people but would you mind trying the 32x games without the 32x on the retro system, if the cartridges would fit?
Where did you buy the clone Sega flashcart from?
got that one on ebay I made a video about a while back
did you also try to just put the 32x cartrige into the mega retron hd without the 32x itself?
32X cartridge cases are slightly wider than regular Genesis cartridges to prevent you from doing this.
Cool vid my man!
Okay so I get the point of this video but the question still remains. who in this entire universe wants to play a 32x game?