🧡 If you find benefit in my videos, consider supporting the channel by joining us on Patreon and get fun extras like exclusive videos, ad-free audio-only versions, and extensive show notes: www.patreon.com/dougsseculardharma 🙂 📙 You can find my book here: books2read.com/buddhisthandbook
There are some actions in livelihood that make the mind unquiet. I did a case one time, and I was a beginner and I took the advice of the more senior person I was paired with in writing up the results. The case was full of a lot of pain, and for a couple of days, I was in pain over it (vicarious traumatization). At some point during my 3rd sleepless night, I realized that there was something I could have done better, something I could do to alleviate the suffering of the client. I rewrote the case, asked for a second meeting to finish it and re-filed it in a way that helped more. The unquiet went away. You can't have an empty mind if you do an occupation or even an action that leaves you with regret or an injured spirit.
I love that you attend to this topic, as I have been thinking about this a lot in recent years. For example, I am a software developer, and honestly most of the things that are developed in today's world are just not needed if you take a closer look. Then I always ask myself, if this falls under a non-righteous livelihood, or if I just wish that it did, to add some credibility to my struggle with the working life.
Hi. Thank you for your amazing content. I came across your channel recently and am eager to learn more about Buddhism and how to live a calmer, happier life. Could you consider making a video that guides us on what concept we should learn first and second and so on? Thank you very much.
Interesting idea, but I couldn't really do such a thing since it entirely depends on the person. Some need to begin by learning one thing, others need to begin by learning another. That said, I do have an intro to the Buddha's teaching course over at the Online Dharma Institute, where I outline the teaching in a nutshell: onlinedharma.org/
Right livelihood is so important. Most people only think about livelihood in the sense of intellectual interests or for practical purposes/ make money; a living... How that job negatively affects others or the environment is diminished or repressed altogether. Actors often take on roles that involve violence and hyper sexuality in order to test their chops and extend their repertoire. They get a rush out of playing a character that is foreign to their real being without caring how that adversely affects others, especially young people. As long as they get recognition, fame, and money then that matters more to them than the social consequences of their roles. I also think about models in the 90s and early 2000s who refused to wear fur coats. Good for them! Even though most models have a price and would do it anyway. Most celebrities care more about their celebrity status than how their actions affect others. Then there are the CEO's of companies that produce massive amounts of products that flood the markets. All this STUFF eventually ends up in landfills or directly in the environment. As consumers we have choices also, but how often to we make conscientious choices, to the point of even paying more, for more "environmentally friendly" products? All my life I've been involved with jobs that help people. Mainly teaching, and now as a caregiver to a person who has a debilitating disease and is wheelchair bound. I had to get out of teaching because I found it too stressful trying to manage behaviors all day. I much prefer caregiving as it is much more in alignment with my heart.
Thanks for exploring this topic to the extent of "light and dark karma", as it demonstrates the complexity and perhaps therefore the reticence the Buddha had initially in answering the question of what constitutes "right livelihood". From the way you've described his answer, I interpret it as a very reserved and intentionally constrained response directly applicable to Buddhist life in particular. In each of his answers - soldier, actor, dancer, etc - the thing they seem to have in common is an one-to-one correspondence with affecting the noble Buddhist life. So for a solider/warrior, it is wrong because they harm and kill. That violates Buddhist principles. Simple. For an actor though, I suspect that it is because in working that craft you are spending inordinate amounts of time playing with the ego, kind of contorting your own mind so as to inhabit someone else, and trying to convince audiences of that illusion on stage or elsewhere. This might be fairly mundane in any other circumstance, but if you want to be a good Buddhist? You should be probably investing that time on stripping _away_ delusion rather than adding to it/causing confusions for yourself and others. The dancer might have a similar problem, in that they are embodying a someone or a something that is intended to display an alternative self, to distract, to titillate, or to dwell in fantasy in a fully-embodied way rather than with the requisite detachment usually called for of a practicing Buddhist, and to communicate that deceit. And looking at your link to the appropriate sutta now, I see that this might be the case, with the addition that the dancer or actor adds the passions and agonies of the audience much like the Buddha's poison arrow parable. This is where these occupations may differ from driving a food truck in your example, in that yes, this could provoke darker and lighter shades of karma in off-hand causation, but such a job is perhaps not such an obvious obstacle to the Buddha way than these other roles, that seem engaged with intoxicating and consuming tendencies counter-intuitive to seeing reality clearly as it is. This might explain the Buddha's reluctance to explain to Talaputa the error of his ways; he's not saying he's a bad person, he's saying that he isn't living by the Buddhist principle of right livelihood. When the dancing master pushes for the answer, he shows his eagerness to give up his distractions, receive ordination, and choose the exceptional path.
Thanks for another informative video, sir : ) I think some of us would have to practically leave the planet to do a type of job that doesn’t bring some kind of harm to some being somewhere in the world in some form. But in this I think we are talking about the physical vehicle. The Spirit of all beings is indestructible, and this truth is what we can serve in all our acts and deeds. I think the cause of the world’s various undesirable livelihoods begins in the mind, under the sway of the senses. Anyway, I realise it’s not exactly buddhist language I’m using. Thanks again for your video!
Agreed:anything that generates income is contingent on creating solid waste, pollution, environmental impact, the poverty of others, loss to others etc. this is generally overlooked. Monastic life is only 1degree removed from this
In the Calvinist/Reformed Christianity with which I am familiar there is rather prominent teaching about right and wrong livelihood, work, and work ethic. Obviously the origins behind it are from different source than Buddhism but I like how the end result has similar. Basically they teach that work has to be ethical and that not all jobs are acceptable because many jobs can be proficient harm and suffering. Now whether Christian’s follow this teaching throughout centuries has not always been consistent.
Hello Doug, I'm currently weaving your last few months of videos into one big musical symphony so i can learn about buddhism in a serious long form lecture format whenever i want, I expect the video to be about 4 - 6 hours long and i'll be putting the first 3 hours to the final fantasy 7 remake for my listening pleasure. Anyway, I was curious about something, I'm making a videogame, and I'm using Elevenlabs AI Voice Synthesis to make the voiced dialogue scenes, You can create AI clones of other people's voices just by uploading a clip of them talking for about 8 minutes, it very effectively creates a copy of their voice when they recorded it that works great for games. Doug, I really admire your voice, Can I make an AI copy of your voice and use your voice to make NPC character conversations and other forms of speech? I would utilize them to voice a large range of random citizens and city dwellers around the big world i've created. I'm not sure if you would like the game or not, I'm targeting an M rating for violence and vape usage and sexy characters, but i do actually intend to tell a long complex multifareous multifaceted story with it, and although things are likely to change, the tone of the conversations, although having overtones of gorey violence and characters in swimsuits, it reminds me of Zelda Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time in the ligthhearted tone of the silly story elements, so what you would think of all that who knows. Can I use your voice, Doug? Technically I can just steal it, as you can't copyright a voice, actually I hope for more legal precedent on this topic, but i had hoped you might agree willingly. Thank you, -Brendan Rose
Insightful, as always! I have a question not really pertinent to this video but maybe worthy of its separate video. All Buddhist traditions refer to the preciousness of a human birth. So what might be the Buddhist ‘take’ on couples choosing not to have children?
@DougsDharma after a very long time I have been to a water park and I've done some water slides, but I didn't have the courage necessary to do the most "dangerous" one. According to Buddhism how could I handle this irrational fear and irrational fears in general?
It's a great question. I did a video awhile back on anxiety and fear that provides some practices: ruclips.net/video/8eQwk4OEeGU/видео.html , but they won't necessarily solve every case.
The bit about actors was surprising. I don't know about other people, but that kind of makes me feel discouraged, if I'm being honest. As much as people say that Buddhism isn't like Christianity and doesn't have an idea of sin, it feels like the ideal Buddhist life even to just facilitate practice is so unattainable, and each little step feels like it doesn't get you anywhere, at least in the modern world. I like drawing, and playing board games with my girlfriend, and reading novels, and I feel that Buddhism doesn't just see those as neutral, but condeming me to Hell. I get Pure Land people more and more.
Thanks for your candor about this material. The judgments are my lessons. The tacit assumption that I have to make progress…and desiring to not desire…I really have to let myself off the hook.
I get your concern, but I don't think the Buddha felt we needed to give up drawing, board games, or novels when living lay lives. For monastics it might be another matter, since monastics are expected to be something like professional practitioners, focused entirely on the dharma.
@@orcguy51 better to study Taoism which is very similar. Buddhism gets to enlightenment thru renunciation which is just one way (rather torturous way). You can get to enlightenment having fun and enjoying life, just don’t be overly attached to things
Examples that seem to contradict karma (bad things happening to good people, good things happening to bad people) are taken from too short of a time scale to know whether or not karma is real, because karma is taught to play out over millions upon millions of lifetimes. The theory as I understand it is that waking reality is a collective projection of the subconscious karmic impressions of all beings in a similar way to how we experience projections of the individual subconscious in dreams. Whatever energy you put out has to return to you eventually, even if it's a thousand million lifetimes down the road. So if something bad happens to a good person it could have been that they ate another being in a past life as a predator or something. Tyrants etc. have a lot of good karma from past lives but waste it and create a lot of bad karma in the process. The theory is generally compatible with my life experience, and I think it's ethically sound to practically assume that it is true.
Doug, i have a question ive been struggling with and i was hoping you may be able to help. I manage a hardware store in the UK. We sell some pest control products. Is me being a part of a company that sells products that kill rodents and insects classed as a unwholesome livelihood? Thanks for reading.❤
@@ReservoirPunk I mean it would be technically wrong livelihood, since you are literally selling poison. However, it seems like this is only be a very, very small fraction of sales for the hardware store. Therefore it is much less worse than for example being a drug dealer who only sells poison. Personally, since you only manage the store and not own it and it is a very small part of the business I wouldn't worry about it too much if I would be you. Maybe you could donate some money every month to an animal shelter if that would make you feel better. I hope that helps :)
@@thomasawdffaw123 Thank you very much for the reply. It has helped put things into perspective for me, thanks. It's funny you mention the animal shelter because I was actually thinking of doing that. Thanks again
With actors and dancers, do we know how acting and dancing looked like during the buddhas time? Maybe "dancers" were a polite and acceptable form of prostitution. I don't know but maybe these occupations were much different back then compared to what they are today
No India has always been pretty relaxed about sex and prostitution as far as I know. Sexual repression is a western monotheistic thing to perpetuate patriarchal dominance to my understanding at least.
I don't believe necessarily so: there were "courtesans" mentioned in the suttas, but those would probably have been different. These were likely people acting out myths or stories through dance.
Do you think a global sangha is possible? Because that is the only way I can see success in the elimination of wrong livelihood. It seems to me that beyond small shops, boutiques, and produce stands exploitation and wrong livelihood is accepted as the norm. You see the people on the bottom work their hands to the bone for peanuts, and the people on the top have never even felt a blister on their finger, or even know how to fix their self a sandwich. Even if the business is not involved in evil directly, there is lots of evil in the way they treat each other. A strange place this dirt ball is.
Yes, though too close a focus on any ethical norm may lead to rigidity and conceit. I think to an extent all or virtually all livelihoods involve some "dark" karma, the hope should be to minimize it where we can. Certainly there is a lot that society could do.
@@DougsDharma Great response, I agree I have seen it everywhere. It is pervasive, and I think we all know what is the right thing to do, it is just so hard. We humans have a hard time seeing our own potential.
@@hammersaw3135 in the vinaya iirc it's not permissible to create a global sangha, even regionally (think like district level). Governance is limited to a small area, a vihara. It is permissible, though, for the small sanghas to have something like a presidium/forum. I feel like it's due to having too wide of an area to control is hindering the head of the sangha. Power corrupts after all.
What if you work for a big pharmaceutical company in clinical trials, and your job is to figure out -- with statistics and analysis -- how many people will die by taking a drug? The government says out of millions of tests a small amount of deaths is acceptable. Your company would rather have no deaths but you know you cannot lower the probability of fatality to zero. Your job is to approve the clinical trial based on some small number of people dying..... Is this Right Livelihood?
@@perrybrissette7144 nothing comes without risk of suffering and your intention here is to maximize helpfulness and minimize fatalities. I would say it's a good livelihood if you and everyone in the production supply chain of the drug follows the intention to heal rather than harm. Just my two cents
I would say it depends on a lot of factors. How much suffering do these drugs cause and how much do they reduce. Do more people die without the drug than with it? What is the quality of life with and without. Is the company solving real problems or playing on peoples insecurities and weaknesses. I think the world is a lot more complex now compared to in the Buddha's day, so I think it helps to be nuanced. But if the person feels bad about it, they could consider a career change. Just my two cents 😃.
Yes I think if the intent is to heal then it is beneficial. Any action we take has potential negative consequences. Having an operation can be quite dangerous, and many people do die from operations. But if they are done properly, with proper intent, then they are truly compassionate actions. Part of doing such actions can be to find ways to minimize their harm, and perhaps one way to approach minimizing harm is to do the sort of statistical analyses you mention. If the intent is proper, then it is compassionate and proper I'd say.
It seems nearly impossible to me to determine whether something like this is "Right" or "Wrong" Livelihood -- especially in the strict Buddhist sense of the Eightfold Path. And I intentionally chose this example to illustrate an important point: our world is far more complex and nuanced than choosing to become a butcher or an arms dealer, which seem far more clear cut-and-dry to me. To take this even further, most of the clinical trials for today's modern drugs -- the ones we all depend upon -- are conducted in poorer, less developed countries, where the rules and regulations are less well established (and the risk of lawsuits is lowest).... and yet the big pharma companies are typically based in richer countries in the U.S., Canada and Europe. And most of the sales of these drugs are in richer countries, not poorer ones. So this means that the people who are most likely to die by taking a new drug in a clinical trial are in poorer countries -- and people who are most likely to benefit from these new drugs are in richer countries. So, poor people die so that rich people may live. As a practitioner, I find it best to open my heart to this kind of pain and suffering and not turn away from the suffering in my midst. I also am reminded of my own precious human birth, that I have been offered such beneficial causes and conditions for my own life --and to therefore live a life guided by bodhichitta and compassion as much as I possibly can everyday.
Is it possible that acting, dancing and today modeling or prostitution, attaches to impermanent appearance, fame, conceit and narcissism? If so the Buddha was onto something.
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Thanks!
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There are some actions in livelihood that make the mind unquiet. I did a case one time, and I was a beginner and I took the advice of the more senior person I was paired with in writing up the results. The case was full of a lot of pain, and for a couple of days, I was in pain over it (vicarious traumatization). At some point during my 3rd sleepless night, I realized that there was something I could have done better, something I could do to alleviate the suffering of the client. I rewrote the case, asked for a second meeting to finish it and re-filed it in a way that helped more. The unquiet went away. You can't have an empty mind if you do an occupation or even an action that leaves you with regret or an injured spirit.
Yes, great insight there. Thanks!
im a pharmacist, and as Paracelsus says, the dose makes the poison, so i technically trade in poisons 😅
The intent makes the poison ... ! 😄
Perhaps self-compassion can help. Even water can be toxic at high enough…well, you know.
I love that you attend to this topic, as I have been thinking about this a lot in recent years. For example, I am a software developer, and honestly most of the things that are developed in today's world are just not needed if you take a closer look.
Then I always ask myself, if this falls under a non-righteous livelihood, or if I just wish that it did, to add some credibility to my struggle with the working life.
Hi. Thank you for your amazing content. I came across your channel recently and am eager to learn more about Buddhism and how to live a calmer, happier life. Could you consider making a video that guides us on what concept we should learn first and second and so on? Thank you very much.
Interesting idea, but I couldn't really do such a thing since it entirely depends on the person. Some need to begin by learning one thing, others need to begin by learning another. That said, I do have an intro to the Buddha's teaching course over at the Online Dharma Institute, where I outline the teaching in a nutshell: onlinedharma.org/
Sadhu Sadhu Sadhu ❤❤❤
Another great video, thank you for all of these!
My pleasure!
Right livelihood is so important. Most people only think about livelihood in the sense of intellectual interests or for practical purposes/ make money; a living... How that job negatively affects others or the environment is diminished or repressed altogether. Actors often take on roles that involve violence and hyper sexuality in order to test their chops and extend their repertoire. They get a rush out of playing a character that is foreign to their real being without caring how that adversely affects others, especially young people. As long as they get recognition, fame, and money then that matters more to them than the social consequences of their roles. I also think about models in the 90s and early 2000s who refused to wear fur coats. Good for them! Even though most models have a price and would do it anyway. Most celebrities care more about their celebrity status than how their actions affect others. Then there are the CEO's of companies that produce massive amounts of products that flood the markets. All this STUFF eventually ends up in landfills or directly in the environment. As consumers we have choices also, but how often to we make conscientious choices, to the point of even paying more, for more "environmentally friendly" products? All my life I've been involved with jobs that help people. Mainly teaching, and now as a caregiver to a person who has a debilitating disease and is wheelchair bound. I had to get out of teaching because I found it too stressful trying to manage behaviors all day. I much prefer caregiving as it is much more in alignment with my heart.
🙏😊
Thanks for exploring this topic to the extent of "light and dark karma", as it demonstrates the complexity and perhaps therefore the reticence the Buddha had initially in answering the question of what constitutes "right livelihood". From the way you've described his answer, I interpret it as a very reserved and intentionally constrained response directly applicable to Buddhist life in particular. In each of his answers - soldier, actor, dancer, etc - the thing they seem to have in common is an one-to-one correspondence with affecting the noble Buddhist life.
So for a solider/warrior, it is wrong because they harm and kill. That violates Buddhist principles. Simple. For an actor though, I suspect that it is because in working that craft you are spending inordinate amounts of time playing with the ego, kind of contorting your own mind so as to inhabit someone else, and trying to convince audiences of that illusion on stage or elsewhere. This might be fairly mundane in any other circumstance, but if you want to be a good Buddhist? You should be probably investing that time on stripping _away_ delusion rather than adding to it/causing confusions for yourself and others.
The dancer might have a similar problem, in that they are embodying a someone or a something that is intended to display an alternative self, to distract, to titillate, or to dwell in fantasy in a fully-embodied way rather than with the requisite detachment usually called for of a practicing Buddhist, and to communicate that deceit. And looking at your link to the appropriate sutta now, I see that this might be the case, with the addition that the dancer or actor adds the passions and agonies of the audience much like the Buddha's poison arrow parable.
This is where these occupations may differ from driving a food truck in your example, in that yes, this could provoke darker and lighter shades of karma in off-hand causation, but such a job is perhaps not such an obvious obstacle to the Buddha way than these other roles, that seem engaged with intoxicating and consuming tendencies counter-intuitive to seeing reality clearly as it is.
This might explain the Buddha's reluctance to explain to Talaputa the error of his ways; he's not saying he's a bad person, he's saying that he isn't living by the Buddhist principle of right livelihood. When the dancing master pushes for the answer, he shows his eagerness to give up his distractions, receive ordination, and choose the exceptional path.
Hello! And thank you for taking the time to answer this. Insightful
Thanks for another informative video, sir : ) I think some of us would have to practically leave the planet to do a type of job that doesn’t bring some kind of harm to some being somewhere in the world in some form. But in this I think we are talking about the physical vehicle. The Spirit of all beings is indestructible, and this truth is what we can serve in all our acts and deeds. I think the cause of the world’s various undesirable livelihoods begins in the mind, under the sway of the senses. Anyway, I realise it’s not exactly buddhist language I’m using. Thanks again for your video!
Agreed:anything that generates income is contingent on creating solid waste, pollution, environmental impact, the poverty of others, loss to others etc. this is generally overlooked. Monastic life is only 1degree removed from this
Love from Germany! 🐱❤️🙏
Hello!! 😄
In the Calvinist/Reformed Christianity with which I am familiar there is rather prominent teaching about right and wrong livelihood, work, and work ethic. Obviously the origins behind it are from different source than Buddhism but I like how the end result has similar. Basically they teach that work has to be ethical and that not all jobs are acceptable because many jobs can be proficient harm and suffering. Now whether Christian’s follow this teaching throughout centuries has not always been consistent.
Right, the same is true in Buddhism and indeed I am sure in all ethical traditions.
Hello Doug,
I'm currently weaving your last few months of videos into one big musical symphony so i can learn about buddhism
in a serious long form lecture format whenever i want, I expect the video to be about 4 - 6 hours long and i'll be
putting the first 3 hours to the final fantasy 7 remake for my listening pleasure.
Anyway,
I was curious about something,
I'm making a videogame, and I'm using Elevenlabs AI Voice Synthesis to make the voiced dialogue scenes,
You can create AI clones of other people's voices just by uploading a clip of them talking for about 8 minutes,
it very effectively creates a copy of their voice when they recorded it that works great for games.
Doug,
I really admire your voice,
Can I make an AI copy of your voice and use your voice to make
NPC character conversations and other forms of speech?
I would utilize them to voice a large range of random citizens and city
dwellers around the big world i've created.
I'm not sure if you would like the game or not,
I'm targeting an M rating for violence and vape usage and sexy characters,
but i do actually intend to tell a long complex multifareous multifaceted story with it,
and although things are likely to change, the tone of the conversations,
although having overtones of gorey violence and characters in swimsuits,
it reminds me of Zelda Majora's Mask and Ocarina of Time in the ligthhearted
tone of the silly story elements, so what you would think of all that who knows.
Can I use your voice, Doug?
Technically I can just steal it, as you can't copyright a voice,
actually I hope for more legal precedent on this topic,
but i had hoped you might agree willingly.
Thank you,
-Brendan Rose
I'd prefer you not use my voice since it could engender confusion among listeners. 🙏
@@DougsDharma Okay, I will of course agree to this, thank you for answering.
Insightful, as always!
I have a question not really pertinent to this video but maybe worthy of its separate video. All Buddhist traditions refer to the preciousness of a human birth. So what might be the Buddhist ‘take’ on couples choosing not to have children?
There is no single "take" on this question in Buddhism, there are a range of opinions but they are to my knowledge never really articulated.
@DougsDharma after a very long time I have been to a water park and I've done some water slides, but I didn't have the courage necessary to do the most "dangerous" one. According to Buddhism how could I handle this irrational fear and irrational fears in general?
remember it will be temporary
It's a great question. I did a video awhile back on anxiety and fear that provides some practices: ruclips.net/video/8eQwk4OEeGU/видео.html , but they won't necessarily solve every case.
@@DougsDharma thank you 👍🏻
The bit about actors was surprising. I don't know about other people, but that kind of makes me feel discouraged, if I'm being honest. As much as people say that Buddhism isn't like Christianity and doesn't have an idea of sin, it feels like the ideal Buddhist life even to just facilitate practice is so unattainable, and each little step feels like it doesn't get you anywhere, at least in the modern world. I like drawing, and playing board games with my girlfriend, and reading novels, and I feel that Buddhism doesn't just see those as neutral, but condeming me to Hell. I get Pure Land people more and more.
Thanks for your candor about this material. The judgments are my lessons. The tacit assumption that I have to make progress…and desiring to not desire…I really have to let myself off the hook.
I get your concern, but I don't think the Buddha felt we needed to give up drawing, board games, or novels when living lay lives. For monastics it might be another matter, since monastics are expected to be something like professional practitioners, focused entirely on the dharma.
@@orcguy51 better to study Taoism which is very similar. Buddhism gets to enlightenment thru renunciation which is just one way (rather torturous way). You can get to enlightenment having fun and enjoying life, just don’t be overly attached to things
Personally I get why acting could be considered harmful. Think about all the films that promote or glorify violence and other harmful behaviors.
Examples that seem to contradict karma (bad things happening to good people, good things happening to bad people) are taken from too short of a time scale to know whether or not karma is real, because karma is taught to play out over millions upon millions of lifetimes. The theory as I understand it is that waking reality is a collective projection of the subconscious karmic impressions of all beings in a similar way to how we experience projections of the individual subconscious in dreams. Whatever energy you put out has to return to you eventually, even if it's a thousand million lifetimes down the road. So if something bad happens to a good person it could have been that they ate another being in a past life as a predator or something. Tyrants etc. have a lot of good karma from past lives but waste it and create a lot of bad karma in the process. The theory is generally compatible with my life experience, and I think it's ethically sound to practically assume that it is true.
Would working as a cook in a place that serves meat be considered wrong livelihood?
What do you think? Make that sort of question part of your practice.
Doug, i have a question ive been struggling with and i was hoping you may be able to help.
I manage a hardware store in the UK. We sell some pest control products. Is me being a part of a company that sells products that kill rodents and insects classed as a unwholesome livelihood?
Thanks for reading.❤
@@ReservoirPunk I mean it would be technically wrong livelihood, since you are literally selling poison. However, it seems like this is only be a very, very small fraction of sales for the hardware store. Therefore it is much less worse than for example being a drug dealer who only sells poison. Personally, since you only manage the store and not own it and it is a very small part of the business I wouldn't worry about it too much if I would be you. Maybe you could donate some money every month to an animal shelter if that would make you feel better. I hope that helps :)
@@thomasawdffaw123 Thank you very much for the reply. It has helped put things into perspective for me, thanks. It's funny you mention the animal shelter because I was actually thinking of doing that. Thanks again
❤
With actors and dancers, do we know how acting and dancing looked like during the buddhas time? Maybe "dancers" were a polite and acceptable form of prostitution. I don't know but maybe these occupations were much different back then compared to what they are today
No India has always been pretty relaxed about sex and prostitution as far as I know. Sexual repression is a western monotheistic thing to perpetuate patriarchal dominance to my understanding at least.
I don't believe necessarily so: there were "courtesans" mentioned in the suttas, but those would probably have been different. These were likely people acting out myths or stories through dance.
Do you think a global sangha is possible? Because that is the only way I can see success in the elimination of wrong livelihood. It seems to me that beyond small shops, boutiques, and produce stands exploitation and wrong livelihood is accepted as the norm. You see the people on the bottom work their hands to the bone for peanuts, and the people on the top have never even felt a blister on their finger, or even know how to fix their self a sandwich. Even if the business is not involved in evil directly, there is lots of evil in the way they treat each other. A strange place this dirt ball is.
Yes, though too close a focus on any ethical norm may lead to rigidity and conceit. I think to an extent all or virtually all livelihoods involve some "dark" karma, the hope should be to minimize it where we can. Certainly there is a lot that society could do.
@@DougsDharma Great response, I agree I have seen it everywhere. It is pervasive, and I think we all know what is the right thing to do, it is just so hard. We humans have a hard time seeing our own potential.
@@hammersaw3135 in the vinaya iirc it's not permissible to create a global sangha, even regionally (think like district level). Governance is limited to a small area, a vihara. It is permissible, though, for the small sanghas to have something like a presidium/forum.
I feel like it's due to having too wide of an area to control is hindering the head of the sangha. Power corrupts after all.
I live in 2024 America. I know Buddhists who are going 5 for 5 as we speak. 😆😂
What if you work for a big pharmaceutical company in clinical trials, and your job is to figure out -- with statistics and analysis -- how many people will die by taking a drug? The government says out of millions of tests a small amount of deaths is acceptable. Your company would rather have no deaths but you know you cannot lower the probability of fatality to zero. Your job is to approve the clinical trial based on some small number of people dying..... Is this Right Livelihood?
@@perrybrissette7144 nothing comes without risk of suffering and your intention here is to maximize helpfulness and minimize fatalities. I would say it's a good livelihood if you and everyone in the production supply chain of the drug follows the intention to heal rather than harm. Just my two cents
I would say it depends on a lot of factors. How much suffering do these drugs cause and how much do they reduce. Do more people die without the drug than with it? What is the quality of life with and without. Is the company solving real problems or playing on peoples insecurities and weaknesses. I think the world is a lot more complex now compared to in the Buddha's day, so I think it helps to be nuanced. But if the person feels bad about it, they could consider a career change. Just my two cents 😃.
if your intent is to heal
Yes I think if the intent is to heal then it is beneficial. Any action we take has potential negative consequences. Having an operation can be quite dangerous, and many people do die from operations. But if they are done properly, with proper intent, then they are truly compassionate actions. Part of doing such actions can be to find ways to minimize their harm, and perhaps one way to approach minimizing harm is to do the sort of statistical analyses you mention. If the intent is proper, then it is compassionate and proper I'd say.
It seems nearly impossible to me to determine whether something like this is "Right" or "Wrong" Livelihood -- especially in the strict Buddhist sense of the Eightfold Path. And I intentionally chose this example to illustrate an important point: our world is far more complex and nuanced than choosing to become a butcher or an arms dealer, which seem far more clear cut-and-dry to me. To take this even further, most of the clinical trials for today's modern drugs -- the ones we all depend upon -- are conducted in poorer, less developed countries, where the rules and regulations are less well established (and the risk of lawsuits is lowest).... and yet the big pharma companies are typically based in richer countries in the U.S., Canada and Europe. And most of the sales of these drugs are in richer countries, not poorer ones. So this means that the people who are most likely to die by taking a new drug in a clinical trial are in poorer countries -- and people who are most likely to benefit from these new drugs are in richer countries. So, poor people die so that rich people may live. As a practitioner, I find it best to open my heart to this kind of pain and suffering and not turn away from the suffering in my midst. I also am reminded of my own precious human birth, that I have been offered such beneficial causes and conditions for my own life --and to therefore live a life guided by bodhichitta and compassion as much as I possibly can everyday.
Is it possible that acting, dancing and today modeling or prostitution, attaches to impermanent appearance, fame, conceit and narcissism? If so the Buddha was onto something.
Perhaps so, though they're not described that way in the suttas.