What makes this so brilliant? Sorkin telegraphed it way back in Season 1, Episode 6 (Mr. Willis of Ohio) when Bartlett got mad at Zoey for ditching her protection: “My getting killed would be bad enough, but that is not the nightmare scenario. The nightmare scenario, sweetheart, is *you* getting kidnapped. You go out to a bar or a party in some club and you get up to go to the restroom and somebody comes from behind and puts their hand across your mouth and whisks you out the back door. You're so petrified you don't even notice the bodies of a few Secret Service agents lying on the ground with bullet holes in their heads. Then you're whisked away in a car. It's a big party with lots of noise and lots of people coming and going, and it's a half hour before someone says, "Hey, where's Zoey?" Another fifteen minutes before the first phone call. It's another hour and a half before anyone even *thinks* to shut down all the airports. Now we're off to the races. You're tied to a chair in a cargo shack somewhere in the middle of Uganda and I am told that I have 72 hours to get Israel to free 460 terrorist prisoners. So I'm on the phone pleading with Be Yabin and he's saying: "I'm sorry, Mr. President, but Israel simply does not negotiate with terrorists, period. It's the only way we can survive." So now we got a new problem because this country no longer has a Commander-in-chief, it has a father who's out of his mind because his little girl is in a shack somewhere in Uganda with a gun to her head. Do you get it?”
My understanding (from DVD commentaries and such, which I watched years ago, so I am a little rusty), is not so much that Sorkin "telegraphed it," as he remembered it at this point in Season 4 and decided to make it happen more-or-less as described.
I love that they expressed the sheer horror of that moment by having Leo run - a man who looks like he hasn’t run anywhere (or had a need to run anywhere) for about 10 years. The world must truly be on the brink of catastrophe.
@@mrcdramavid You know when Ron is flustered, it's big time. 12 concise words that just ratchet things to a new level and make your heart drop with the seriousness of it: "Zoey Bartlett is missing and there's a dead agent at the scene." Michael O'Neill is the actor and he conveys such an air of competence and command with this role. It's similar to the episode where there are shots fired at the Oval Office from the street. He is assessing and in control, and reassuring the President and then Leo tells him that there has been another assassination attempt overseas: "SHUT IT DOWN, crash the West Wing". A switch flips and he goes on high alert. Love it.
Props to the actor who played Jean Paul (I forget his name). He did an incredible job of making us HATE him every time he was on screen. Also, the ending is great... I saw this on DVD, so I just watched the next episode right away (the next day, or maybe same day). Can't imagine having to wait a week to see what happens.
I'm sure Jack Gleeson (Joffrey Baratheon) graduated with honours from The Trent Ford (Jean-Paul Pierre Claude Charpentier Vicomte de Condé de Bourbon) School of Douchébaggery.
The ending sequence is just ridiculously good. The layering of Donna and Amy, CJ and Danny, Josh's nonchalance, and the misdirection with Jean Paul, with Massive Attack slowly building in volume the whole time is just pure brilliance. Check out the camera work on Danny where you get a new angle on the last question, and the slow move-ins on Donna and Amy. Or the orbital shots at the beginning of the sequence. You could watch it 100 times and still see something new.
You missed a huge Sorkiness clue that something was going down. Right before everything happens, Leo says, "Tell us, 'What Kind of Day Has It Been?'" That, was the title of the first season finale. Sorkin says its literary code to warn us that, to take in everything that's happened so far, as now, as something is about to change all of that. He's used that title in every one of his series.
welcome to one of the juiciest finales in west wing! i remember the dread i felt when i realized what was happening the first time i saw this episode and i still get so stressed rewatching it. excellent buildup, set to massive attack, just incredible.
I was a huge West Wing fan. My daughter was born in 2004 (this aired 2 years earlier). That's why it's rubber room all the way, but only till she reaches 30 since I'm not crazy.
I watched and recorded this show live at the time and the end of this episode was one of the most exciting and intense episode endings of any show I'd seen at that point. I don't think I can count how many times I rewatched that ending before the next episode came around.
Think back to Season 3's Finale Posse Comitatus (?), probably my favorite episode of the series. Jeb Bartlett's agonizing over the morality of killing Sharif, from a large global philosophical perspective. And today's events add an entirely new dimension to it, making the entire chain of event even more personal.
I originally thought that your video had frozen because you were just watching transfixed on the screen. But I was that same way when I saw this episode and wanted to immediately watch the next one. I was thinking back to what Kevin said about his prediction about what would happen and just keep an open mind. This was a great way for Sorkin to “leave” the show.
You're right that they're not ending on this cliffhanger. There's one more episode in this season. (Though by this point you've probably already recorded your reaction to it, right, lol?) 😄 I'll be very interested to see your reaction to the next one, and season 5.
that was the second time that Josh has proposed Leo for Vice President, after S3's Stirred, which was episode with the "good" John Hoynes. If you listen, the Massive Attack song answers Amy's question, even if Donna doesn't.
@@Zseventyone While CoS is more practically important day to day, the Vice Presidency is more prestigious, and having a VP who is an actual ally is a huge bonus. It also is, in Josh's mind, the best scenario should Bartlet's MS require the evocation of the 25th amendment - there's no one Josh would trust more to take the reins of the Presidency. the promotion he wasn't looking for was him assuming, should Leo step up, that he would become the new Chief of Staff. it's the logical progression.
@@Zseventyone Josh didn't say it was a promotion for Leo (though I disagree with you that it's not). He said "not that I'm looking for this promotion, but..." it would be a promotion for JOSH TO chief of staff.
@@jemal999 It would technically be a promotion for Leo, of course, as it's a Constitutional office. It would be a promotion in every sense of Josh, assuming he got the CoS job, of course.
In the situation room, while discussing the rain and the five missing suspects, right across Martin Sheen's chest, 4 mins, 15 secs into the episode...."and Taye Diggs".
I love the west wing more than any show ever. I’ve rewatched it about 30 times, but this episode made me almost quit watching. Calling it like 24 is right, and I don’t watch the west wing for an over the top, insane 24 style show. I hated this episode and still hate it. It’s an eye roller for me.
Parts of this episode do have a tone that's very unusual for _The West Wing,_ but the majority of the kidnapping arc is still about the political ramifications and about Pres. and Dr. Bartlet as people, which are both extremely on-brand topics for the show.
Avoiding spoilers... I have mixed feelings about it. I think that the overall arc here is good through most of it, and then has an ending that fizzles out. If only they had delivered at the end of the arc, I'd probably like this episode a lot more.
What makes this so brilliant? Sorkin telegraphed it way back in Season 1, Episode 6 (Mr. Willis of Ohio) when Bartlett got mad at Zoey for ditching her protection:
“My getting killed would be bad enough, but that is not the nightmare scenario. The nightmare scenario, sweetheart, is *you* getting kidnapped. You go out to a bar or a party in some club and you get up to go to the restroom and somebody comes from behind and puts their hand across your mouth and whisks you out the back door. You're so petrified you don't even notice the bodies of a few Secret Service agents lying on the ground with bullet holes in their heads. Then you're whisked away in a car. It's a big party with lots of noise and lots of people coming and going, and it's a half hour before someone says, "Hey, where's Zoey?" Another fifteen minutes before the first phone call. It's another hour and a half before anyone even *thinks* to shut down all the airports. Now we're off to the races. You're tied to a chair in a cargo shack somewhere in the middle of Uganda and I am told that I have 72 hours to get Israel to free 460 terrorist prisoners. So I'm on the phone pleading with Be Yabin and he's saying: "I'm sorry, Mr. President, but Israel simply does not negotiate with terrorists, period. It's the only way we can survive." So now we got a new problem because this country no longer has a Commander-in-chief, it has a father who's out of his mind because his little girl is in a shack somewhere in Uganda with a gun to her head. Do you get it?”
so much in these last few episodes are a call back to season 1
I had forgotten completely about that until someone else pointed it out. Great callback.
My understanding (from DVD commentaries and such, which I watched years ago, so I am a little rusty), is not so much that Sorkin "telegraphed it," as he remembered it at this point in Season 4 and decided to make it happen more-or-less as described.
I love that they expressed the sheer horror of that moment by having Leo run - a man who looks like he hasn’t run anywhere (or had a need to run anywhere) for about 10 years. The world must truly be on the brink of catastrophe.
And like so many West Wing catastrophes, no words used.
For me, the fact that Ron looks out of breath and almost out of control!
I remember when this was first on thinking, Zoey will be fine, but Leo collapses and dies after the last scene
The last 5-10 minutes were so cinematic in the best way.
@@mrcdramavid You know when Ron is flustered, it's big time. 12 concise words that just ratchet things to a new level and make your heart drop with the seriousness of it: "Zoey Bartlett is missing and there's a dead agent at the scene." Michael O'Neill is the actor and he conveys such an air of competence and command with this role. It's similar to the episode where there are shots fired at the Oval Office from the street. He is assessing and in control, and reassuring the President and then Leo tells him that there has been another assassination attempt overseas: "SHUT IT DOWN, crash the West Wing". A switch flips and he goes on high alert. Love it.
I love Ron's face just before he tells Leo what's happened. His face says it all without any words. Such amazing acting.
Ron and Leo's reaction told the whole story. So well-done.
How could you not watch the next episode? You won't be disappointed.
Props to the actor who played Jean Paul (I forget his name). He did an incredible job of making us HATE him every time he was on screen. Also, the ending is great... I saw this on DVD, so I just watched the next episode right away (the next day, or maybe same day). Can't imagine having to wait a week to see what happens.
Spoilers. You suck.
Trent Ford, I believe.
A week?! We had to wait half a year! 😂 After the next one...
I'm sure Jack Gleeson (Joffrey Baratheon) graduated with honours from The Trent Ford (Jean-Paul Pierre Claude Charpentier Vicomte de Condé de Bourbon) School of Douchébaggery.
Really, he killed it. I would think playing such a believable and grounded character while also being so earnest and unlikable can't be easy.
The ending sequence is just ridiculously good. The layering of Donna and Amy, CJ and Danny, Josh's nonchalance, and the misdirection with Jean Paul, with Massive Attack slowly building in volume the whole time is just pure brilliance. Check out the camera work on Danny where you get a new angle on the last question, and the slow move-ins on Donna and Amy. Or the orbital shots at the beginning of the sequence. You could watch it 100 times and still see something new.
You missed a huge Sorkiness clue that something was going down. Right before everything happens, Leo says, "Tell us, 'What Kind of Day Has It Been?'" That, was the title of the first season finale. Sorkin says its literary code to warn us that, to take in everything that's happened so far, as now, as something is about to change all of that. He's used that title in every one of his series.
Wow! That's a great Easter Egg.
When these reactions drop, it's like my morning coffee. Great reactions folks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
welcome to one of the juiciest finales in west wing! i remember the dread i felt when i realized what was happening the first time i saw this episode and i still get so stressed rewatching it. excellent buildup, set to massive attack, just incredible.
The build to the realization that Zoe was kidnapped was perfect.
I was a huge West Wing fan. My daughter was born in 2004 (this aired 2 years earlier). That's why it's rubber room all the way, but only till she reaches 30 since I'm not crazy.
I watched and recorded this show live at the time and the end of this episode was one of the most exciting and intense episode endings of any show I'd seen at that point.
I don't think I can count how many times I rewatched that ending before the next episode came around.
This episode was so intense and the upcoming guest star is even more intense and awesome! Can’t wait!
The last several episodes (starting with the introduction of Matthew Perry's Joe) have been fantastic.
@@watchthiswithjoeandkevin6 more to come.
Upcoming guest star my fav of the show.
Think back to Season 3's Finale Posse Comitatus (?), probably my favorite episode of the series. Jeb Bartlett's agonizing over the morality of killing Sharif, from a large global philosophical perspective. And today's events add an entirely new dimension to it, making the entire chain of event even more personal.
Oh gosh, watching the early reactions knowing how the episode/ season ends is killing me.
I've been waiting for your reaction to this episode. The next few episodes are so good. There are more surprises coming.
A good episode. The end of Sorkin era. Still very good episodes ahead. Enjoy the ride!
I originally thought that your video had frozen because you were just watching transfixed on the screen. But I was that same way when I saw this episode and wanted to immediately watch the next one. I was thinking back to what Kevin said about his prediction about what would happen and just keep an open mind. This was a great way for Sorkin to “leave” the show.
Perfect exit story. Just exceptionally executed.
You guys sniffing around the edges at the start of this. Cant wait for next weeks reaction.
You're right that they're not ending on this cliffhanger. There's one more episode in this season. (Though by this point you've probably already recorded your reaction to it, right, lol?) 😄
I'll be very interested to see your reaction to the next one, and season 5.
that was the second time that Josh has proposed Leo for Vice President, after S3's Stirred, which was episode with the "good" John Hoynes.
If you listen, the Massive Attack song answers Amy's question, even if Donna doesn't.
Yeah, surprising for Josh to think that's really a promotion. CoS is much more important than the VPOTUS in terms of making the gov't work.
@@Zseventyone While CoS is more practically important day to day, the Vice Presidency is more prestigious, and having a VP who is an actual ally is a huge bonus. It also is, in Josh's mind, the best scenario should Bartlet's MS require the evocation of the 25th amendment - there's no one Josh would trust more to take the reins of the Presidency.
the promotion he wasn't looking for was him assuming, should Leo step up, that he would become the new Chief of Staff. it's the logical progression.
@@johnobrien7562 Fair point, but Leo likes being Bartlett’s guy too much, I think.
@@Zseventyone Josh didn't say it was a promotion for Leo (though I disagree with you that it's not). He said "not that I'm looking for this promotion, but..." it would be a promotion for JOSH TO chief of staff.
@@jemal999 It would technically be a promotion for Leo, of course, as it's a Constitutional office. It would be a promotion in every sense of Josh, assuming he got the CoS job, of course.
There’s one more episode before you get to season 5.
In the situation room, while discussing the rain and the five missing suspects, right across Martin Sheen's chest, 4 mins, 15 secs into the episode...."and Taye Diggs".
I have been waiting eagerly for you to watch this one. A great episode.
If you think that's something just wait until the next episode.
Omg yeah
That cliffhanger is not helpful lol
Please upload next video ASAP! 😍😩
No VP ……
I love the west wing more than any show ever. I’ve rewatched it about 30 times, but this episode made me almost quit watching. Calling it like 24 is right, and I don’t watch the west wing for an over the top, insane 24 style show. I hated this episode and still hate it. It’s an eye roller for me.
Parts of this episode do have a tone that's very unusual for _The West Wing,_ but the majority of the kidnapping arc is still about the political ramifications and about Pres. and Dr. Bartlet as people, which are both extremely on-brand topics for the show.
Avoiding spoilers... I have mixed feelings about it. I think that the overall arc here is good through most of it, and then has an ending that fizzles out. If only they had delivered at the end of the arc, I'd probably like this episode a lot more.