If a church is so big that I don't reasonably have the chance to know the pastor personally, or if that pastor does not know every person, or at least every family in that congregation personally, then that church to to big.
There’s a rational position underlying this issue that might be helpful if illuminated, and that’s nominalism. Nominalism says structure, meaning, order is just whatever we arbitrarily impose or decide. When the pattern of the tabernacle was mentioned, this hit me as a Biblical Scholar because it’s the same described in revelation as an ongoing reality, and the same pattern we find in the structure of early churches, and the creation story in Genesis is the pattern of an ancient text describing the construction of a temple (Solomon’s temple follows the same pattern over 7 years). The Greek word for “table” the deacons served is the same Greek word for “alter.” Nominalism is the default OS that we’ve been loosing to in modern Christianity. It’s for this reason I ceded to the original Orthodox Church, with writings from the first, second, and third centuries, all pre-Constantine. Read the martyrdom of Polycarp, the Didachi, Dionysus the Ariophagite (Paul’s disciple, mentioned in the NT). They describe the Orthodox Church. We cannot modal the heavenly reality based on our nominalist disposition.
TBH, I'm not a fan of using this kind of approach to argue because frankly it's a term that Rome has used against reformers for centuries. And it misses the point, (maybe intentionally) framing our conflict on philosophical differences rather than on ultimate authority. This is a Bible Study focused channel because I stand (with the reformers) on the Scripture as the ultimate authority over the church.
So what’s your take then on the book of Acts where you have 3000 people getting saved in the first message and then 2000 getting saved roughly after that with like 5000 people being added to the church in the first couple weeks of Christianity. Do you really think Peter James and John do all those people personally?
@@JimmyNimon Exactly! That's why Acts shows them organizing into house churches, breaking bread daily - not building stadiums or creating a mega-church model.
@@GospelNerd But it does say they 'continued in the apostles teaching meeting in Solomon's portico (large gathering) and met house to house (small gatherings). There is no way the apostles knew all 5,000 people by name, though, I would assume they genuinely cared for all the followers of Christ. I think many good mega churches employ a small group strategy for care while having large group gatherings for quality of teaching, etc. Thoughts?
@@JimmyNimon Yes, the early church seemed to have a beautiful rhythm - apostolic teaching in Solomon's Portico (which, given the space and public nature, likely accommodated maximum hundreds rather than thousands at a time) combined with the vital daily life in homes. Modern mega-churches try to replicate this with small groups, but I wonder if we've inverted the focus from what we see in Acts?
Do you think megachurches should be broken up into smaller churches where this ideal fellowship/daily life can be easier lived out? Or is it possible to achieve this ideal in megachurches?
With God, anything is possible, but He will accomplish His will His way. My argument is that His design for the church in Scripture seems incompatible with the megachurch (for the reasons in the video.)
Deeply appreciate this, brother. Timely. God bless you.
@@padnic88 Thank you brother
If a church is so big that I don't reasonably have the chance to know the pastor personally,
or if that pastor does not know every person, or at least every family in that congregation personally,
then that church to to big.
@@ThorfinnSkullsplitter-fz7ff Agreed
There’s a rational position underlying this issue that might be helpful if illuminated, and that’s nominalism. Nominalism says structure, meaning, order is just whatever we arbitrarily impose or decide. When the pattern of the tabernacle was mentioned, this hit me as a Biblical Scholar because it’s the same described in revelation as an ongoing reality, and the same pattern we find in the structure of early churches, and the creation story in Genesis is the pattern of an ancient text describing the construction of a temple (Solomon’s temple follows the same pattern over 7 years). The Greek word for “table” the deacons served is the same Greek word for “alter.” Nominalism is the default OS that we’ve been loosing to in modern Christianity. It’s for this reason I ceded to the original Orthodox Church, with writings from the first, second, and third centuries, all pre-Constantine. Read the martyrdom of Polycarp, the Didachi, Dionysus the Ariophagite (Paul’s disciple, mentioned in the NT). They describe the Orthodox Church. We cannot modal the heavenly reality based on our nominalist disposition.
TBH, I'm not a fan of using this kind of approach to argue because frankly it's a term that Rome has used against reformers for centuries. And it misses the point, (maybe intentionally) framing our conflict on philosophical differences rather than on ultimate authority. This is a Bible Study focused channel because I stand (with the reformers) on the Scripture as the ultimate authority over the church.
So what’s your take then on the book of Acts where you have 3000 people getting saved in the first message and then 2000 getting saved roughly after that with like 5000 people being added to the church in the first couple weeks of Christianity. Do you really think Peter James and John do all those people personally?
@@JimmyNimon Exactly! That's why Acts shows them organizing into house churches, breaking bread daily - not building stadiums or creating a mega-church model.
@@GospelNerd But it does say they 'continued in the apostles teaching meeting in Solomon's portico (large gathering) and met house to house (small gatherings). There is no way the apostles knew all 5,000 people by name, though, I would assume they genuinely cared for all the followers of Christ. I think many good mega churches employ a small group strategy for care while having large group gatherings for quality of teaching, etc. Thoughts?
@@JimmyNimon Yes, the early church seemed to have a beautiful rhythm - apostolic teaching in Solomon's Portico (which, given the space and public nature, likely accommodated maximum hundreds rather than thousands at a time) combined with the vital daily life in homes. Modern mega-churches try to replicate this with small groups, but I wonder if we've inverted the focus from what we see in Acts?
Do you think megachurches should be broken up into smaller churches where this ideal fellowship/daily life can be easier lived out? Or is it possible to achieve this ideal in megachurches?
With God, anything is possible, but He will accomplish His will His way. My argument is that His design for the church in Scripture seems incompatible with the megachurch (for the reasons in the video.)
Big God > Big Church