Why to avoid CFE223 and Hornady 68-BTHP
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- Опубликовано: 23 ноя 2023
- This test shows that Hodgdon’s CFE223 powder and Hornady‘s 68-BTHP bullet are not a good combination. We will keep testing at lower and higher bullet weights to see if results differ, but these do not work.
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How many of us has JRB inspired. We need him back. Love the target dude. Great vid
I miss Johnny too. I still enjoy his videos. Thanks for watching!
I cant believe the CFE223 would be the problem. It looks like maybe its a matter of your twist rate and bullet stabilization in that weight. I use CFE223 it in 6 ARC 100 and 90 grain bullets ( 1in 7.5 twist) as well as a milspec M-16 build in 223 with 62, 60 and 55 grain bullets with great success. Its good powder
Hi Bubba. It works well with other bullets I just couldn't get it to work with the 68 BTHP. thanks for watching.
My rifle doesn't like 68g otm that much. But I load with the aa2230 powder. It does pretty good with 75g otm. Actually really good.
My rifle seems to like to have your bullets also. Lately I've had some good success with the 52 grain bullets and I am our 3031 powder. Thanks for watching. Please subscribe.
CFE223 works great in my AR with 55 gr FMJBT. I'm running middle of the data for the bullet-powder combo. Off hand I cannot remember exactly what it is. Volume wise I used the exact setting on a Hornady LNL measure as I use for H335, though the weights are different between the 2 powders. When I ran out of H335 I switched to CFE223 and started measuring the charge without changing the setting. The CFE dropped spot on the middle charge weight for the CFE223 data. Now I can switch back and forth and keep my setting the same. Both powders shoot exactly the same at 100 and 150 yards with an off the shelf 16inch barreled Bushmaster and a 4x scope.
That's very interesting. I have H335. I know the CFE 223 is a ball powder, and measures very consistently from my RCBS uniflow powder measure. I will be running a test using 55 FMJ. I want to see if the lower bullet weight will change the accuracy with this powder. Thanks for sharing. This is extremely interesting. Thanks for watching
I found the cfe 223 with 77 gr smk works well for me but the 68gr hornady has given me substantial frustration with 1/9 and 1/7 twist
@@northstarw0w I have to agree. I have not tried the 77SMK before now, because they have to be loaded longer than magazine length. My Ruger American used AR magazines. But I now have a Tikka T3X which will accommodate a longer round. I will have to give that a try. Thanks for the comment. and thanks for watching.
I was shooting Frontier 68 BTHP rounds in 5.56 out of a 13.7 1:7 twist BA barrel.. I was shooting groups of 5 to 7 inches and thought my scope was loose or something was really messed up. I looked in the bottom of my range bag and found a mag with 5 rounds of some kind of m193 I slapped that in my rifle and proceeded to shoot a 1.2 inch 5 shot group. I'm going to try that 68 in some other rifles but its looking like a no go so far. Really confusing part is that 13.7 barrel loves AAC 77 gr. I shot 4 - 5 shot groups with the same rifle last week and 3 of the groups were sub MOA.
I think that we are in a search looking for that best load. It's always nice when you find one that works. Good luck in your journey. And thanks for watching.
I've had good groups with CFE223 with the 75 gr BTHP .
Good morning James. You know they say it's all about finding out what your rifle likes, and it sounds like your rifle likes that combination. I did go back out and shoot some 55 FMJ, and they performed better than the 68 grain BTHP. I suspect the same would be true for the 75 grain. You got to find that right powder/ weight combination. Thanks for watching.
Yes , what works in one rifle may not in another .@@EverydayReloadingandShooting
CFE223 is my go to powder for bullets in the 50g to 64g or what I would consider middle weight .224 bullets. 68g and above N140 has worked well for me. Just my experience.
Thanks for the comment Jennifer. I will be on the lookout for that powder. Thanks for sharing, and thanks for watching.
CFE223 under a 69gn sierra matchking prints clover leafs out of my Tikka.
Sweet! You've gotta love that
@@EverydayReloadingandShooting the same Tikka throws pressure fits with 70gn Barnes that my Savage eats like candy. It's strange how it works. I've heard it put in this way, "Once you've seen one group from one rifle, you've seen just that."
@@coyoteodie4458 Yep, I'm afraid you're right. Even to identical rifles manufactured by the same company can shoot differently. As they say, you have to find out what your rifle likes. Happy reloading.
Tikka? Bolt action… not apples to apples comparison ….he used an AR!
@kochj0713 I've got a couple AR's that do the same. I don't shoot them as much as I enjoy the Tikka more. I've been on a quest to find the best load overall for all my .223's. The 69 gr MK has been the best so far. Previously it was over H335. CFE gave better groups.
But I guess I'm not comparing apples to anything because I'm not using Hornady bullets. Mostly I was just making conversation about how different rifles like different components.
I had basically same results with that bullet/powder combo in a 1-8 twist 223 wylde AR. Groups really come apart after 2700fps.
I have found that many of the rounds I've shot performed well at around 2600. Thanks for watching
I second this. I’ve not gotten good results with CFE and heavier bullets either. Also, when load developing and shooting for groups, I suggest you purposely try not to hit your point of aim, so as to not change the size of it so you don’t accidentally start changing your hold, because you’re shooting away your target/aiming point.
thanks, someone else mentioned the same thing as well, so I have adjusted my scope to where it's an inch off. I did find a decent load with a 73 grain ELD match. Thanks for watching.
The headline is over the top stupid when the differences in rifle chambers to barrels will make all the differences how bullets are accurate or not accurate that also goes for powders.
I use CFE 223 in 223 loads and they are fired from 2 different ARs and I use CFE 223 powder in loading 6mmx45 for another AR rifle and I use CFE 223 for loading 7.62x39 so all of these rifles with the powder CFE 223 is used the rifles shoot great with all kinds of bullet weights and 3 different calibers.
Lure, thank you for the comment. I did find some loads where it worked with 55 grain full metal jacket and 73 grain ELD match bullets. As they say, you have to find what your rifle likes, and mine did not like 68 grain BTHP with CFE223. it does like it for other weights, just not 68 grain. Apparently it works well in your rifles. congratulations for finding that load. "Over the top stupid?" I don't think so. If you read comments by others, you will find that many also find that that combination does not work for them. But I do appreciate your watching.
My results with CFE 223 have been constantly inconsistent. From .730 to 1.730 with the same load.
I found a few charge weights and bullets that it works OK with. Not my favorite go-to powder though.
Interesting results I appreciate the honesty
I appreciate your watching!
You need to work up your seating depth like you did with the powder weights. Take your best grouping weight, then work on varying setting depths. Did that with my AR and was able to get sub .5 moa with 26 g of CFE 223. I find it odd you didn't mention your COAL. Book recommendations are only a starting point. Barrels vibrate at different rates. It's okay that you don't prefer CFE, but give it a fair shake.
Hi Jim. Thanks for watching. I am limited on what I can do with seating depth because my magazine will only take a 2.26 inch maximum bullet length. The COAL was 2.25 inches. I can load them shorter, but I can't load them any longer.
I use CFE223 on anything BELOW 62gr bullet in 223. Its just not consistant with any bullets above 62gr. Hodgen Benchmark is amazing with 69-80gr 223 bullets though.
Thanks for the input Derek. I'll have to check out that benchmark powder. Thanks for watching.
Have the ruger American ranch with the 16 inch barrel. Cci 400 primers, 25 grains cfe 223 and c.o.l of 2.25 gives .5 to one inch groups at about 2550 fps. Wild how every barrel has its own likes and dislikes with the same manufacturer.
As they say, you have to find out what your rifle likes. Thanks for watching
Also, is your result with a 55 grain bullet? It is possible that a lighter or heavier bullet would give me a different result. And I will be testing that.
I concur, I have had almost exactly comparable results with that Exact combination….I cannot explain it. I had a small chronograph test (using only three rounds) on top of it all with a very small extreme spread and I am stumped as to why the groups were so bad. I tend to blame the powder, because I had similar results with 69 grn sierra match kings.
Yeah, I tested the same round with Accurate 2495 powder and had pretty good results. Most groups were under an inch; some better. I think it’s the powder. I’m going to try it with 55 grain and 75 grain bullets. The 68 is right in the middle of the two, so I’m hoping that either a heavier or a lighter bullet may group better. Thanks for watching.
I can't get any tighter groups them 1" with a bullet above 55gr with CFE223 its a good enough powder for your fox and yote loads but once I shoot through the 55gr HPs I loaded up with it I won't buy anymore unless I go through the cartridges I've already made.
Cool, I'll be testing some 55FMJ with it. I screwed up and got an 8 lb container. Hopefully I will find a load that works. Thanks for watching
What is twist rate on your rifle? I get excellent results with cfe 223 in 223,204 ruger,22-250,but with 55-62 gr weights in the 223,22-250 and 32-39 gr in the 204
The twist rate in my rifle is 1:8. I have no idea why it didn't like the 68 grain bullets, but I did other test where I got some good groupings on 55 grain FM J and 73 grain ELD match. I appreciate you watching. Thank you
That sucks. Are the action screws torqued correctly?
I think so. The gun shoots well on other loads; just not these.
Use the same components but try it with 69 grn sierra match kings. It was comparable for me
I do like Sierra bullets. Thanks for the input. I will give that a try.
my only other thought is to take a larger chronograph sample, I only test two loads using 3 rounds each. One at 25.4 grns and the other at the max recommended 26.3 grns so that only gives me a test sample of 6 rounds. Using CCI BR-4 primers I had an ES of only 14fps at 25.4 grns and 11fps at 26.3 grns. I can get groupings of 3 out of my Wyndham Weaponry Vx varminter (yes it is an AR) usnig my pet load (using varget, and sierra match kings of course) averaging .88". I am at a loss as to why in the world I get poor groups using CFE 223 in both Sierra Match Kings at 69grn and Hornady's 68grns. given the low ES velocities for CFE 223. The one thing I can say is that I am getting almost 100fps more out of CFE 223 at the max charge.
I should clarify IT WAS COMPARABLE IN THE SENSE THAT IT WAS EQUALLY AS BAD---just didn't want to get your hopes up lol @@EverydayReloadingandShooting
I do like Varget. That has been an excellent powder for me. No clue why the CFE 223 doesn't produce a better result. oh well, that's part of the fun of this hobby. Experimenting to find out what works and what doesn't.
Every gun is different i have the same gun i've tried just about everything.The one load that groups good in mine is a 55 grain vmax with 25.2 grains of RL 15 on a bad day i get 1/4 inch groups around 2750 fps. The cfe 223 didn't work for me either.
That's excellent! I'll have to try that load. Thanks for watching
I've had good results with cfe 223. there could be a number of problems effecting your accuracy. slug your barrel / barrels, then use di 10:15 al calipers and check your barrels diameter. those 68 grains you used may say .224 but may vary.... ( all guns have a bullet they will shoot excellent groups) it may also not like the twist rate of the barrel. that same load may shoot perfect in another rifle, but it also could be the powder, cfe 223 is fast burning like imr 4895, but varget is slower. there are so many things that can be causing it, but saying avoid cfe 223 isn't good because you'll find thousands saying it is and thousands saying it isn't. when reloading you can spend a year on 1 rifle perfecting the perfect load data for it.
Thanks for sharing Dragen. You make a lot of good points. They say you have to find out what your rifle likes. I have had some good loads with CFE-223 in the past, but I believe it was with lighter bullets like the Vmax. I appreciate the input. Thank you for watching.
PPS: I’m not saying CFE - 223 is not a good powder, I’m just saying it didn’t work well with the 68 BTHP and, I should add, in my rifle.
I’ve just purchased the 68 hpbt. Have you had success with any other powder?
Hi Turck, yes, Varget and IMR-3031 are excellent for this caliber. Thanks for watching
Also Accurate 2495
@@EverydayReloadingandShooting perfect I just picked up varget. Appreciate the response
@@EverydayReloadingandShooting I was thinking about the 2520 I’ll look into 2495
I've had great results with blc2 in this cartridge and 308.
You can't change the powder charge in 223 by a grain at a time and expect meaningful results. You're clearly a beginner. You're just copying right out of the Hornady handbook. In 223 you should increase your charge no more than .2 gn per step. And shoot a single 3 shot group until you find something promising.
Thanks for watching!
Hornady podcast number 50."if you want to get big results, you need to make big changes." They recommend one grain steps between loads. Also, I'm comparing loads ranging from the minimum to the maximum. If I find a load in there that groups pretty well, then I go back and I do further testing with smaller steps .1 or .2 grain increments. but I do appreciate your watching. I also checked out your channel as well. Very interesting content.
Please check out this Hornady podcast where they specifically say to change as much as One grain at a time. ruclips.net/video/QwumAGRmz2I/видео.htmlsi=YaLDzS5G7-K5lyyw
Disappointing. I assume your twist rate in the Ruger is 1:8 or 1:9? Should be enough to keep the 68s stable. And I don't see any evident of tumbling (oblong holes in the target). The 223 is slower burning than some of the other powders - maybe that's the issue?
Hi Cody. It is 1:8. I'm pretty sure it's the powder. Because this same round grouped well with Accurate 2495.
To fast for your twist rate . I have AR 1-7 16” 68 BTHP. RMR .5 or less at 100
That could be. Or my rifle just doesn't like that bullet. I did find excellent groupings at higher and lower bullet weights with this powder. Thanks for watching.
@@EverydayReloadingandShooting Are you still using the Ruger stock ? I also have Ruger American in 7mm 08 and and had the same problem. Got a Boyd’s stock and all my problems went away.
Hi Morgan, thanks for the comment. Yes I am still using the Ruger stock. It's kind of hard to compare a 7 mm 08 with a 223. A different chassis would probably help though, I agree. I do like the looks of Boyd's. Very nice. Thanks for watching.
Have you tried seating depth test? What chronograph do you use?
Because of the length of an AR magazine, which this rifle uses, they have to be seated to fit the magazine. Or, 2.25 inches. I don't use a chronograph. The velocity is based on the load data published in the loading manual. Thanks for watching
You could try getting a good load for single loading for target practice. I was also surprised by how off my velocity was compared to reported load data.