sgtzero1337 Peste Noire can write beautiful things too, I mean I'm french so I don't have much problems to understand them, but it's one of the first band to really impress me through their lyrical content. Their first album contain some lyrical gems like "Des Médecins Malades Et Des Saints Séquestres"
Yeah, I enjoy it a lot. It's Famine's way of expression. His satire reminds me of a better Mark Twain (mind you I don't like Twain, so it's really hard for me to say that) that kind of jests at serious subjects with outrageous lyrics and makes fun to get to a very well-developed point.
Lyrics are a lower priority with me for rock and metal, especially if the vocal style or audio mix would require me to read along to understand what's being said, for the most part, the vocals are just another instrument to me. However, I've never been able to give rap the same treatment. I wouldn't say rap has worse lyrics than rock/metal, it's just that when they are "meh", it's more noticeable to me. I think this is a significant factor for why I can't listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop.
This is likely due to the fact that in certain genres such as Rap and Country and most Pop, the lyrics are at the forefront of the work. The only artist I can think of who blurs hip-hop lyrics is Death Grips, and even they include written lyrics when you purchase their albums.
Same thing with rap and other pop music, lyrics are much more noticeable. Black Metal especially I rarely focus on the lyrics, can't hear them anyways. It's all about good riffs and atmosphere for me.
I think the message is important if the artist has an important message... if that makes sense, especially if that message is important to the listener. Bob Marley has great messages - his music, to me, is about the message as much as the music. On the other hand, Death's album Scream Bloody Gore is not about the message at all. It's about the music. Some of their later work has some more important messages to be heard, and those albums have a more valuable message.
I don't think it matters. I could literally listen to a song that "advocates" raping women, killing people, homophobia, vandalism, terrorism, anarchy, etc and still give it a chance simply because the instrumentation and arrangement is undeniable. People forget artists are suppose to paint a picture and often develop a character for themselves to be as honest and vivid as possible. Even in this fairy tale scenario it IS still a reflection of society. Therefore any perspective on an issue should be allowed and expected. Hell, I'm black, I would still listen and possibly appreciate a record even if it's racist as fuck if the music is just undeniable....just don't expect me at one of your shows.
The thing is: when you know your music, and love it, you start to develop some kind of affinity with the musicians involved. I find myself sometimes listening to, let's say, Black Sabbath, and shouting "shit! Tony, you nailed that solo...you rock!". The fact that this would happen with a person you don't like would make it contradictory and therefore much more interesting. You just have to put more thought into it, which makes you grows as a person/listener. Listening to somebody whom I totally agree with would be boring. Unless he makes good music.
When I listen to a Kanye West album, I see Kanye as a character in the albums story. And honestly, his albums are fucking incredible. But It was only once I started examining Kanye from a distance, and listening to his projects as if they were little stories, that they became really funny, or biting, or whatever Kanye was going for. He is unquestionably narcissistic and has made some mistakes in his life, but when I separated him from his music, I started seeing his genius, and I kind of respect him quite a bit now. Just my 2 cents.
Urine Denial I really agree with you on this man. His albums as a whole are really immersive and give you a really good visual of how Kanye was feeling and going through, when you're listening to whatever track. Also I've noticed that as time goes by, and you go back and listen to your older favorites from him, you understand what he's saying and imo enjoy it more.
Urine Denial Good on you man! I've heard some of his songs and heard from some people he's good. But, I just can't see past his ego or push myself to listen to a whole rap/hip hop album. Not my thing :(
@TheSethIkrass think of your favorite album ever. if the message were changed to something completely different--but the album's sonic qualities remained the same--do you see yourself enjoying it as much?
Let me say Anthony, so glad you made this video. In my view, the music and the message are literally inseparable. The truth is, how you hear an album is how the artists INTENDED for you to hear it. They created that music with something in mind, which includes both the message of the lyrics and the attitude of the music. As far as whether you should support artists whose lifestyles you don't agree with.... that's a bit tougher.
here's an example i haven't seen: I can't listen to some of the weeknd's music for example, despite liking the sound, bc his lyrics are too sexually explicit, I don't mean to be a snob or whatever, it just makes me uncomfortable keep in mind I'm 15 lol I probs sound like a loser now but I typed this out so
Not a loser. Many people sort of over expose themselves to things just to "get it" and then lose their sensitivity to their previously held moral standards. Kind of reminds me of the one girl from Saturday Night Fever..
You're not a loser lol, The weeknd's lyrics make me unfortable too, but i eventually found a way to look past the lyrics, just listen to the music, and I enjoy it for that. But at the same time; for that reason, The weeknd could never be close to an of my favorite artists.Gish is great btw
I'm the same I don't like sexually explicit music, what if that comes up when I'm shuffling my playlist and people hear it, they'd think I was a weirdo or something
Peste noire is basically the most difficult example of a message tending to overlap the music. For most NSBM bands, all the nazi/white power thing has nothing to do with the black metal spirit (meaning at some point bands fail to understand their own stuff), that's actually what the leader of peste noire himself said recently. So I personally don't really mind if a band has stupid ideas if I like their music, I may just not be willing to get into it if I feel it's just another generic band using a certain imagery/ideology to sell records (what happens in french black metal and french rap), without real talent nor artistic interest. However, being french and seing that among the hype this release started, many people outstandingly approving both music and message (and considering that in some case the ideology must have been the decisive factor), I am very careful about peste noire, which, I have to admit, is a very innovative band (and I'll never blame them for it). Since now they're clearly done with all the black metal street-cred thing, they have a fan base, which is for a big part agreeing with the whole right-wing anarchism weird thing of the band, which doesn't want to be seen as a butthurt nsbm band anymore. This is of course has to do with the political climate in France, and the fact that there's a kinda personality cult around the band. Despite the fact I like their music, I personally don't want be seen as a fan (in the sense of fanatic) nor will I ever support them in any way. Moreover, now for peste noire, the message and the music are very related, that's artistically speaking a very good thing, and thus I can't consider them as harmless idiots, but as one of the first truly politically engaged bm bands (blackened crust left aside). They're in some way having "racist basslines" (though their bassist is asian). All the non metal part are satires of what they despise in the french society, all the ghetto culture for instance, and all the racism that implies.
Messages definitely matter. I believe artists hold more power than they think. Music is a very effective way to convey an emotion, idea, ideology, and the music itself makes it easy to have that message really stick in your head. I wouldn't say that just the music is ever enough to push someone to do radical things, but it shows there is support behind it which makes it easier. Furthermore, when you support an artist you help that music spread and therefore spread their message.
I don't know, as a metalhead for more than 25 years, I'm long past caring about the lyrics. Maybe I am wrong, but the only thing that matters to me is whether I get a kick from the music.
I need a good message in my music if I want to keep listening to it over the years and for it to find a place in my heart. I like good music, or instrumentals, but that isn't necessarily everything. The message isn't essential, but it keeps me listening to it.
I usually try to ignore the message or themes of a band if offensive. It can actually help to enhance the music since even though it is offensive, it's often (in the case of Black Metal,) very prideful, and the musicians' pride will sometimes show through the hard work and dedication to the music that they portray. I think it's important, of course, to acknowledge that not everyone will agree, and that everyone listens to music in a different way. For me personally, I don't mind offensive or controversial topics.
Famine, the lead singer and writer of the bands music - as far as I know - writes with a lot of satirical shit, good shit. In interviews you can find that he's not a serious person. Hell the music itself is ridiculous, it's poetry filled with satirical hints.
Refer to this interview: Famine: I will simply state, as an admirer of French culture, that Peste Noire is not linked to Nazism despite what has been abundantly said. I felt the need to set things straight since the main question surrounding Peste Noire was ‘Is he a Nazi or not?'. Why would I be a neonazi when the Nazis did all they could to take over France and fuck its citizens over, a nation they had no respect for whatsoever? I say this with sincere passion for French culture since my case is special : I am partly of German extraction and one of my Alsatian ancestors voluntarily fought alongside the Nazis in Norway. I share all the characteristics of an Aryan man, from the colour of my eyes down to my blond pubic hair… Hell, I could easily be a neo-Nazi with no complex whatsoever (I always chuckle when black-eyed, dark-skinned mongrels want to give me lessons on what National-Socialism is all about and consider me a degenerate). Racist I am not. Call me instead a racialist. I do not like the imperialistic and supremacist aspects of Nazism. The way I see it is that all cultures have the right to exist, although separated from one another…nonetheless they all have the right to exist. After all, there is a heavy Germanic influence in France, the best example being the origin of the country's name, which comes from the Germanic tribe called the Franks… Nazi Germany's will to subdue the French and the Slavs was simply retarded; Germany, which lies at the heart of Europe, being itself an ethnic melting-pot of Slavs, Celts and many other peoples. It's hilarious that the person who inspired Hitler the most, Gobineau - a Frenchman! - considered Germany as the most bastardized country of all Europe, claiming that the last true Aryans were to be found in England and Scandinavia. When, in the past, I used swastikas or other Nazi symbols, it was exactly for the purpose of symbolism : the symbol for the final and decisive battle against all that is prevalent in today's modern world : the irreversible victory of cross-bred jewmerican liberalism and everything it stands for, i.e. stupidity and the absence of values. Nazism, now more punk than ever, represents the perfect anti-symbol to present-day dominant ideologies (the masochistic human rights movement and cosmopolitan capitalism).
@@Vaerangian "The way I see it is that all cultures have the right to exist, although separated from one another…nonetheless they all have the right to exist." This in itself is already a major dogwhistle, or should I say airhorn, to fascists. That's not even mentioning -the phrase "Nazism, now more punk than ever", -the whining about a "masochistic human rights movement" (that's a nice euphemism for "sigh, do I wish brown people still didn't have rights"), -the crying about an "absence of values", -the descriptors "cosmopolitan" and - sweet jesus fuck - "cross-bred jewmerican liberalism". By claiming all this is just satire and jokes you are willfully closing your eyes to the reality. The band is also openly embedded in the Nazi BM scene. Are they doing that out of irony, too? Is the entire scene ironical perhaps? This isn't new by the way; claiming to make their antidemocratic statements with an undertone of "satire" and "irony" has been the alt-right's main strategy of legitimizing themselves for many years. Decide for yourself what stand you want to take in relation to bands that embrace fascist ideology. But. At least be honest to yourself and do not deny that ideology's presence.
+Reuben Solly Interestingly enough, albums like Raise Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven can still express a message without the help of lyrics. Food for thought.
+Trestrope Yep. That whole part at the end of Storm really conveyed this sort of world where you're being watched or prompted to buy things. The guy in Storm talking about God made me think these guys didn't like religion, the old man talking about this place used to be the playground of the world. All message stuff coming from an instrumental.
This is a nice thought that you've given here. Did you notice, that lately a lot of the music that's popular avoids a message at all? Take all the (as i am used to call it) abstract electronica (like the bunch of dubstep made for the sake of making dubstep) that's just.. THERE,with like no intellectual communication with the listener whatsoever.. and a lot of people need that! some sort of background noise that won't try to interact with you and ask you questions..
Hmmm...I think this is one of your best questions Anthony. If I don't agree with the message of some albums and I enjoy the music, then I'll usually be very passive about the lyrics and not worry about it, but there are lines for me concerning messages, not because I'm being strict with myself, but because I just don't like listening to music with a wrong message. That's probably the reason why I'm sooo picky with rap music, I just think too much of it is degrading, but it depends.
Love the message of love for my people they're spreading, I defend the fatherland my ancestors built for me and I am not obliged to tolerate subversive elites or welcome the sweepings of the world to replace us.
Since I watched this video a few weeks ago, I have felt in love with the Black Metal of Komando Peste Noire. The music is so frigging good that I don't care about the message. I'm a mexican guy, so listening that the last chorus at the end of the first song sings: "SUPREMACY ARYAN" kinda tells me what's going on, and even like that, I don't care, cause the middle song (sorry, I don't know french) the on with 20 minutes, is so full of french power that I can't stopo loving the hell out of that record. Thanks Anthony Fantano, you showed one of my favorite bands this far, so, for me, message doesn't matter for me at all. (I'm also a huge Burzum fan, so yeah, message doesn't matter).
Dear god, the message is super important. I guess it might be the fact that I listened to a lot of Bob Marley growing up, but I just can't stand inane bullshit and ignant sillyness I often hear. Most of the music I listen to doesn't even have lyrics. I listen to the track and just enjoy the aesthetic. Other times, I'll listen to a track specifically because it has a message that I think is well presented or especially powerful. I guess however much I like the bassline, I feel a bit iffy about the bassline being played in service of WHITE POWER or WHITE POWDER or some such bullshit. Kanye I can bear, because no one actually cares about Kanye other than Kanye.
answering your question about whether message and music are tied, well they are, and maybe that's why sometimes you cannot embrace some music as you can other,like you like the sound of it but it doesn't fully click with or inspire you cos the message is just not something you want to hear,but you know, it's very abstract, personal and has many different ways to happen in different levels. All I'm glad is there still are people who look for messages and take challenges the artists offer them.
I remembered this vid when Paul Ryan said his favorite band was RATM. I mean, at least two members are self-described Communists. How much of their message does the average fan agrees with? Ryan has some pretty extreme views in economics and social policy, maybe he can identify with the desire of a radical reform of society, even if he is the diametric opposite.
I believe that the way a songs written portrays an emotion, and the message you input flows with that emotion. So if the emotion is good or bad, agreeing or disagreeing, its up to the maker on how its displayed.
Peste Noire's music, and specially on that album, is purely satirical and borderline parody, Famine himself has said it's hyperbolic and that he just wanted the essence of Peste Noire to be the most disgusting, overly french, stinking and offensive entity possible, i MEAN he compared Peste Noire to a bottle of piss lol
On one hand, yeah, but on the other hand, Famine is very much a nationalist, and PN does play live shows on right-aligned festivals. Notably, Napalm Death canceled their Blastfest show after Peste Noire were added to the lineup of the festival.
What I like about Famine's form of satire is that it maintains an underlying sense of seriousness cloaked in over the top satirical lyrics. The lyrics on L'ordure à l'état pur are quite interesting to say the least and represent a resentment towards the modern culture of France by providing a glimpse into how Famine views the various cultural identities that exist in modern France through the use of stereotypical imagery that depicts said cultures. This album attacks the urban street culture of France in the song Cochon Carotte et les sœurs Crotte by using intentionally misspelled words, over the top misogyny, and nonsensical phrases that highlight just how redundant he feels this culture is. On J’avais rêvé du Nord (I Had a Dream of the North) he looks at the Mediterranean culture of southern France and how it is no longer even French culture and as the song shifts into serious black metal, a genre born from northern culture, the lyrics become less satirical and become more serious. The song is a longing for France to return to its northern roots yet it embraces some satire to further illustrate his point. An example from the song in English... "Because where I was born is no longer France, Our Gothic splendors: Now decaying ruins of stone Tagged with exotic swear words…"
Astaroth Belial lol in interviews he talks about how much the band is Nationalist and "Racialist" and it's very Serious, they even work with Action Française a royalist far right association
I relate to what you say in this video. When i was 11, and I knew little English, I used to listen to One in a Million (G N' R). I loved it. I enjoyed the beat and Axl Rose's singing, too. It sounded like a nice, cool love song to me. Then I got older, learned some more English, and realized what he sang in the verses of that song. I couldn't enjoy it the same way anymore. Matter of fact, I hate the song and who wrote it now. But I still catch myself humming it, sometimes.
i feel this way about a lot of bands. no, it's not necessary to agree with every appreciated musician's ideology yes, it's good to be aware of the scope of a musician's message. yes', it's ok to enjoy melodies made by someone who is not on the same moral plane as you, the listener. then again, that's just what i think. several examples could be made in the political/moral/cultural/personal aspect, but... i think it's good to question and listen to a musician's context.
I'm glad you made this video, because I would often listen to an album that I think sounds great, but the lyrics would put me off either because I disagree or that I am just completely indifferent to the message because it has been addressed so many times before. It's nice to know that it may be acceptable to like an album despite its lyrical content, or at least that I'm not the only one who is confused.
I came upon Peste Noire the other night and was hooked. No band has ever hit me like that. So not even a minute into whatever song it was, I start researching this band. I find that they're racist, and got all confused on how to proceed. I had just heard some of the most fucked up noise, pure rage, but I don't want to support them. Now I'll quote a pastor I had a falling out with, "There is no Christian music, there are only Christian lyrics." So I guess the message I'm concerned about lies within the lyrics. It is ONLY the lyrics that keep me at bay from Peste Noire. The instrumentation is bad ass!
I don't mind really offensive messages as long as they're not repetitive messages that you hear in every song and its always nice to know other peoples point of views towards something
For me its a catch 22, because I love music, period. However, I think it stops for me in regard to support or becoming a fan, when the message that is thrown out there by an artist, I don't agree with becomes forced upon me or starts to outshine the great sounds they put across. If it continues on each track, or if it portrays their lifestyle on every song...then yeah, I tend to get turned off by it, no matter how good the music is...
morbideddie Fair point. Still don't understand why he had to submit to these uneducated snowflakes and take down his Deathspell Omega review. A little bit of research would have revealed that they are not a nazi band at all and the latest album has nothing to do with glorying fascism.
@@Tha3rdworldghost Agreed. DSO are not a NSBM band and him taking down the review was a dumb move imho. Having Aspa as a session vocalist Is understandably controversial but he has no input on the bands lyrics which are clearly not nationalist. That said I think this video is reasonable, he doesnt say much concrete and seems fairly in the middle of this issue, and this was half a decade ago before the whole issue with Fader where he got cancelled. Personally I dont listen to any NSBM on principle and while I think the move with DSO was a misstep since they arent NSBM I respect his more recent position of not wanting to associate with any NSBm or anything related to such projects.
Also it's wierd that he took that review down but he still has Mayhem, Burzum, Leviathan, Daughters reviews up, he even did a Emperor classic review where he called the drum performances "killer". It's wierd that he took down that specific review, but reviews of more controversial bands are still up
Honestly, i think this is a great point to bring up. Being a lyricist and writer, i would like to think that i pay more attention than others to the message. In saying this, i really feel like the only music i listen to with a message i don't really agree with is some hip-hop and rap..but even then i can suspend belief and 'morals' for a bit to enjoy the lyrics for what they are: an expression of that artists thoughts, etc. Just my .02.
You can avoid this problem by doing like me, and simply refusing to believe that musicians are even capable a having a message in their produced music. Like you said, you can't have a racist bass line; I extend this principle to the lyrics themselves, and have come to the conclusion that the sounds that peoples' voices make are simply another addition to the sonic arrangement.
Mark Wahlberg The core principle of what Anthony said cannot apply to the lyrics. You can't extend that principle, because the very core of the principle was that a sound, cannot be racist, because it's a sound. The lyrics, are lyrics. They are words you can make sense of. Not to say that you shouldn't enjoy the music if you don't like the message, but you can't pretend that the message doesn't exist.
MestariDuff Yeah but words only make it into the song if they are phonetically appropriate for that particular section. In that way, all the "meaning" behind the idea gets filtered through the aesthetic principles associated with selling music to a commercial audience. Considering that, I'm not in a rush to give musicians good or bad credit for whatever message they claim to have - it's just the wrong medium for it. That's why people write essays or do symposiums when they want to get messages across. Music is for fun.
Mark Wahlberg No, words don't "only make it into the song if they are phonetically appropriate". That's juste not true. If you take Peste Noire as an example, which is the main example used in this video, you have a pretty clear example of a band that focuses on the lyrics content more then the way they will sound in the track. PN actively seeks to be sound raw, disgusting and messy. They have no interest for how the words come out sonically. You also can't presume that all bands and artists focus more on how well something sound sonically then they focus on the message. It highly depends on the bands and artists's preferences. And finally, you can't presume that all musicians make music just for fun, and that they don't care about the message. Some hardcore music in the US, and some national socialist black metal in Europe is used to recruit kids and promote racism, racial and exclusive nationalism, and even violence. You seriously need to distinguish your personal preferences and how you perceive/enjoy your music, versus the historical and sociological facts.
I catch myself thinking that I care, but...never really did. And I don't really have to worry about it, because I don't support artists...cold harsh truth. I don't buy albums or tracks, I stream music. Here's the thing, though...I would probably only buy something specifically from an artist these days if I agreed with the whole package. I know that the aspect of supporting the artist financially is not part of this video. But that's how things have changed. Years ago that would have been an integral part of this question. And MUCH harder to come to terms with.
Jedi Mind Tricks would be a good example for me. I don't have the same beliefs on homosexuality or religion, but I don't care. Violent By Design is one of my favorite hip hop albums of all time.
I think it is very important for the music community to constantly reaffirm the separation between music and message. It is up to us to make that distinction, because the mainstream crowd doesn't care about lyrics anyway.
I think the message is vital to liking the artist that makes the music, because if you buy their stuff and you just like the music but the massage seems wrong to you, you still supporting the massage, so its a bit of a pickle. I guess you cant just switch of liking their music, so in the end you just have to see if you can justify for yourself listening and in the end supporting the Artist. I guess its a bit late for this comment when the video was uploaded in 2011 but I still had to make it.
Arne Enra It depends how much the artist honestly subscribes to these messages. Robin Thicke is someone I do not want to support, but if I come across a simple love song with really great live instrumentation I'm more inclined to buy it because I want to support those who worked on the song to make it sound so good, not as much the song writer, but I'll still be okay with buying it because the message isn't as strong, even though that message from this love song exists just as much as any other song's message. Maybe it means something to the writer, but not as much to me, I'll just like listening to it, and I think those who contributed to that deserve their share. If the song was made by one person then purchasing it is simply a matter of "does the message conflict with me enough for me to not buy it." Renard, sick music, been known to be an abusive relationship partner, would not buy. Magic!, it's about guys and girls and loving one another, I don't need to hear it but yeah I'll still buy it because it sounds really nice.
I listen to so much Black Metal now that vocals are really just another instrument at this point. Case in point would be Drudkh. Black Metal roar and its all in Ukrainian anyway. But I am devoted to this music. I am aware that there is a charge of far right leveled at them but it has no effect on me listening to the music. The music creates its own images in my head and that suits me just fine. Besides whats wrong with being a little bit nationalistic?
I can't listen to anything I find to be morally offensive. Its happened such that I've listened to music over and over without a clue to the lyrical content until one day for whatever reason I happen to really "hear" it and instantly, a song I've loved for its sheer musical melody is ruined by its abhorrent lyrics. Tolerance is a good thing but I have my beliefs and ideals too. I can't rightly sit and listen to musical poison for the sake of being "tolerant."
Try to feels the history of the country before judging the message behind those kind of lyric. There is nothing wrong with the idea of protecting the culture that our ancestors fought for.
In a lot of cases the message is what will keep me coming back to an album. There are albums I hear that I really enjoy but I don't find myself listening to all that often because the message either doesn't sit well with me or it's boring. If an album is interesting and good musically and carries a good or interesting message, I'm much more inclined to give it repeated listens.
@theneedledrop I am as well. I feel their sound is so unique (not necessarily completely original) that you can pick them out within hearing a few seconds and say "That's Rage (or Audioslave if you ignore vocals)." I like when artists differentiate themselves significantly while still retaining strong songwriting and delivery. That's a big reason why I like that Death Grips album you reviewed. I can't compare it to anything I've heard before. It's in a "genre" of its own, if you will
Would you like to back up your claim? As far as shoe gaze goes yes, that's undeniable; however, Deafheaven uses blast-beats, the singer uses mainly high-pitched BM vocal style (as appose to switching to a glam metal vocal style, as screamo does), and the guitarist doesn't shy away from Black-Metal scales. Not to mention the actual lyrics being really deep and dark. Lastly, I've not seen any article ever that says Deafheavem is Screamo. Care to reply?
One would not want to support what they feel is negative for their experience. However, censorship based on personal preference isn't ideal either. I think that the divisor is quite clear: one should enjoy the music sonally, but not necessarily endorse it if they don't agree with the message. I do believe that some explaination as-to why you aren't endorsing it would be nice, so whoever is watching your review understands why you feel the way you do.
I reaallly don't see what's so bad about wanting your culture, your ethnic group to survive. Japanese people have a homogenous society, and no one gives them shit for it.
There's a difference between survival and supremacy. If you're proud of your culture, cool, show not only your kids but other people your customs. Cook them food, play them music, tell them stories, nothing wrong with that. If you try to beat down or out-do another persons culture it's a problem. One classic line I hear from racists a lot is "diversity equals white genocide" which is one of the dumbest concerns I've ever heard. Diversity is what makes the world interesting and unique, the ability to learn new languages, experience new foods and traditions and meet people that are different. Also, homogenous traditions in asain cultures are an undeniable part of their past, but a lot of the more liberal and progressive countries like Japan, South Korea and Hong Kong are breaking those traditions every day.
***** Wow, it's almost like you just admitted that your culture isn't being attacked, but rather that parts of your culture are now included within the public discourse. What's wrong, Rob N? Do you think your culture weak and not worth keep around? Are you insecure, Rob N? Do you think this insecurity stems from your culture? I'd so love to know. Get back to me okay :)
Like in all other arts, message and meaning is important to music. Music has always had a major influence on culture, society, and even politics (the 60's). We do have to be careful of what messages we condone or tolerate in case they become popular and widespread. Indifference to offensive or dangerous messages can make you part of the problem. However, if the message is harmless from a social or political viewpoint, I see no problem in enjoying the music even if u don't agree.
Ultimately I'd say that many people have already faced this problem with other types of art such as literature. French author Louis-Ferdinand Céline collaborated with the nazis during the occupation of France, he wrote some hateful stinking books but also magnificent nihilist ones and he is considered the greatest French author of the 20th century along with Albert Camus. So I think liking a book or an album is not necessarily embrassing all of it and refusing to have a critical point of view.
i am disgusted by your inability to understand.. you're blinded by your social conditioning. you'd read nietzsche and say "i like the writing but the message offends me"? you like the music but want to preserve your liberal integrity and assure people you're not racist or sexist, like you perceive famine to be. i think you are simply missing the point entirely. provocation is key, embracing ugliness, blood sacrifice, crushing your own "comfort zone". you're too weak for this.
@MastroCicio Do you also hate horror movies? Do you hate black humor in general? If you look deeper into his music it's not all about "raping bitches." The whole "Bastard" album is basically a concept album about how he turned out all fucked up and immature because he had to grow up without a father. His music has made me cry.
I can get how it isn't important to some people, but for me it really is. That's why I have problems with rap music alot, especialy when the lyrics is mainly the rapper bragging about how much shit he got I liked Logics mixtape, I like murs and mf doom alot too.
First off, awesome video Anthony! Definitely an interesting topic, and it's nice to see you've put some serious though into it. As for myself I think it's acceptable to shy away from a certain song/album/even artist if their message is just too polarizing for you. I know I've done it before even if, like you mentioned, sonically I really enjoyed the work, that voice in the back of my head reminding what it's about just ruins the experience. I would type more but I only get so many characters!
@musicismyfavorite777 Also, to try and clear up what I meant. A poem is only a poem, and an instrumental song is only an instrumental song, but when introduced to each other I do believe that they become one, and the message is very vital. If it wasn't, it wouldn't and shouldn't be there.
It depends I guess. I don't feel anything when I think about the lyrics of "Pigs (3 diffefent ones)" or "on the turning away" but those are some of my favourite Pink Floyd songs
the message is hugely important to me in a song, a poor message or a bad message can ruin a good song for me, not in that the music now sounds bad, but it just takes something really vital out of the music for me.
(FOLLOWING ON FROM MY PREVIOUS COMMENT) So basically I think artist should expertiment more with conveying messages, and really linking the sounds of the songs with those message. It gives another dimension to the music and it may even help somebody, in more ways than just a rhythem to dance to. Look at John Lennon, his greatest gift to society was his message.
Subject, form, and content, man. Distinct parts of a piece of art. All three have a part in the final beauty of the piece, so sure, an album can be ruined with a bad content. I think we can still appreciate the form while saying the overall beauty is not so great.
In a way, the music can have an effect on you physically. Like you can’t stop moving. And in a way I feel like I decode a certain emotion first when I listen to a song. Or connect it to a point in my life. English is not my native language so when I started to like music I simply thought of the singing track as another layer of the song like any other instrumental. Mostly I listen to music still like this, I only take a look at the lyrics if I really get hooked on the song for a few days.
2. But other - less bloody topics are rather a matter of everyone personally. I always said some of Pink Floyd's albums had a MASSIVE impact on my formative years, but there's gonna be someone who had different times and is gonna disagree with me if he does not feel the same things as portrayed on, say, The Wall.
Fantano...very curious, I would like too see a video on who your favorite artist/groups in each type of music??? Possibly a top 5 for each catagory?? I would love a video like that :) Thumbs this up so he can read it please!
Honestly dude, now that you're saying that, I think I've never been into lyrics too much, I'm more a intrumental music listener cuz that's pretty much that matters to me, well being myself mexican, and all bands I listen to are rather american or european, lyrics don't have that impact in me, even if i look up to them, I try to read them and finf connection, but sometimes I juts feel there's no need to look up to that. Music, just that, sound, notes, vibrations, beat, all that is what Iove.
i think that the thing that bothers me most is the message in songs or song lyrics itself. A message that is cliche or not described in the artist's own way really puts me down, or lyrics like "dj turn it up" or "get on the floor" make me sick. No matter how great the melody is, the message and the lyrics have to go with it, or else it just doesn't resinate with me
Mindless Self Indulgence's lyrics are, well. you know. But I still enjoy their music. As for lyrics being tightly wound around music's message, I'm not sure. Often, I will love a band's lyrics, but when I check them out in text, they're not good. It's like the singer's emotion brings the words to life. This influences me a lot, and my opinion on poetry depends on whether I read it or heard it sung. Which is why lyrics I don't agree with I love sometimes. I don't know. Good question.
As a non native english speaker, I started loving music through a lot of things I did not understand. I would do some researches if i really liked one song but the message part never really bothered me as long as I was still pretty young. Now I feel that message does matter, but I also found myself listening to music without paying attention to the lyrics, just as a way to chill out. So I don't really feel there is a firm answer to that question...
I'm just glad to see that I'm not the only one that is torn on this issue. I feel like everything has gotten so complex and I'm not just talking about music. It all makes me long for my childhood when things seemed so much more simple. Maybe I should just only listen to Van Halen from now on...😑
I find that ultimately the aesthetic and the message do go hand in hand. I could tell what Peste Noire were going for without ever reading any lyrics or even understanding the song titles: the medievalist and nationalist themes are really present in their aesthetic as there is a much more positive kind of melodic grandeur that you are only going to get with a positive culture affirming outlook like Traditionalism or Nationalism- as opposed to the usual nihilism, coldness and subversion that Black Metal bands love. I do not listen to music with leftist themes for this reason that you spoke of- but I find that with a good aesthetic sense we can usually tell what kind of message is being portrayed with most music- I can tell from most Crust Punk that it is going for resentment, dissolution, anarchy, destroying societal roles and subversion from the "victim" position. The musical barbarism, roughness in revolt of aesthetic beauty, angry and emotional vocal and song styles without much power to back it up ect- all point to the kind of ideology those bands support. I find it interesting when people have this conflict because it probably means they are somewhat sympathetic to an aspect of the ideology in question( of course this may even be just a small aspect of it) without knowing it because they've only considered it in one, negative way.
If the band or artist has lyrics then the message better be there. Instrumentals obviously don't need to, but anything with lyrics for me almost has to have this ideology behind it. However, I've never been bothered by an opposing message. When I run into an artist that is what you're describing, I either take it at face value, or I look at it from their view. You know, if you've ever read Mein Kampf or Donald Trump's books or even the communist manifesto (just examples), you don't always have to agree with them. You read it to understand what it is that you don't like. Or,n you could use the music to humanize who you don't agree with. Realize that, hey, these are people. People you disagree with can be good, and they can make good things and can even be your friend.
I'M SO GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP!!! I was just thinking about this actually and I feel the generalmessage is a big part of the determining audience. For example, anyone that likes lil B enjoys the message he gives off with his actions/words. If a makeshift Waka Flocka-esque artist who endorsed knowledge came onto the scene i'm not sure Waka Flocka fans would hop on the bandwagon. (cont)
Why does everyone think nationalism is a bad thing? Nationalism means love to your language and culture, it doesn't automaticly mean hatered to people outside of it. Nationalism is a huge creative power and the fact that Adolf got it wrong and mixed ethnical and racial elements into it doesn't mean a thing to what nationalism is and could positively be used for.
casperado666 I am sorry but you are wrong. Here is -as a shortcut- the definition you can find on Wikipedia (and like in most dictionaries) the definition of "nationalism": "Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions" If you read the article further you will notice that nationalism is not the same as patriotism. You love your country? You are a patriot. Your country is the greatest on earth? You are a patriot with nationalistic streak. You don't differ between country and nation and still are the opinion that it's the greatest thing on earth? You are nationalist. If the own nation is the best thing ever you automatically downgrad all other nations. Nationalism refers to a nation and nation is not equal to country. Just to remember: This is not my personal opinion. I just quoted the "scientific common sense". There is also no judgement (good thing/bad thing) about nationalism/patriotism in this "scientifc common sense". Sorry for any mistakes in spelling or so, English isn't my main language.
I agree with the part beginning with "I find any distinct culture in the world valuable ..." until the end. I also think that globalization can be harmful to all cultures. But I don't see only the negative aspect of globalization, I think there a good aspects too. It can bring cultures together and create new culture as the same time as it can destroy a current culture. In my opinion "globalization" is just life and some kind of "evolutionary thing". Humanity started in caves and little families, more different families became a village, villages became towns and so on. Now we have nations. Humanity has left behind the caves and villages and humanity we nations leave behind too. I also think I will not experience this point in human history because it will happen in a far, far future and than I am dead ;) If you don't mind I would like to explain the whole thing nationalisms I think I have understood so far and what I think that is this "scientifc common sense" I mentioned in my language (German) later. I'm going to have some beer and Peste Noire now.
Bjaerke actually I agree with you as of now. I think the term nationalism is overloaded with negative historical connotations and therefore attracts closed minded morons which I wouldn't like to see in my close proximity. I think I'd rather call myself a global culturalist nowadays (even though I don't know if the term even exists, but it's kinda self-explanatory). I agree with you that nations will be abolished at some point. I also agree that cultures will change in time. I just hope we will not be the same grey mass in the decades to come as it'll be a very sad thing for me to experience. Cheers and have a nice day!
A song like CREAM from Wu-Tang is entertaining, yet has an underlying message that I didn't really catch until after multiple listens, and I respect Wu-Tang for the wisdom that comes with the central idea/message in the song.
depends on how the message is delivered, whether you agree or disagree with the message is beside the point, its how it is delivered, if the singer is passionate and truly believes in what hes saying and you can hear it through the vocals.
I'm pretty sure the Oriental riff can be racist in the right context. That being said, despite being as open minded as possible, there are still some borders I won't cross (NSBM for instance).
I think so when it comes to getting an opinion/statement out there for the people to hear. Granted, not everyone is going to agree/like the message being presented, but others will. For me, if the message isn't all that good to me but the instrumental is, then I can tolerate it. All in all, as long as the message isn't laced with ignorance or arrogance, the message is important to making a song. This is my opinion.
I think that the message does have to be taken into account when it comes to music because it is part of the art. One must appreciate the message as well as the music to appreciate the piece of art in its totality. Once you start advocating music that sounds good, but has a bad message, you are kind of supporting and propagating that message, and that could actually hurt people's feelings.
Over my years of listening to music, I've noticed that lyrical content really doesn't matter much to me. My wife has sometimes objected to the music I was listening to because of the lyrics, but didn't even notice until I re-listened to the song. I guess I don't absorb much of a message unless I've listened to an album tons. It's mostly about the instrumentation for me. I'm really into Heartbeat by Childish Gambino, and didn't notice an issue with the lyrics until you brought them up.
Who wants to be in my new band Racist Basslines?
I'm in.
you know any klan members who play bass?
zxjacko what type of clan we talkin? does wu tang count?
zxjacko ME ME ME
zxjacko no thanks im gonna stick with my band sexist drumbeat
jokes on you racism and sexism are messeges im looking for.
Gotya
Based
I fucking died at "racist bassline".
+Daniel Plainview I play racist basslines all the time too
+Daniel Plainview Racist bassist (good on ya if you get the reference).
Some of Peste Noire's lyrics are actually pretty hilarious even to someone who is a French speaker and doesn't have to translate them to english
sgtzero1337 Peste Noire can write beautiful things too, I mean I'm french so I don't have much problems to understand them, but it's one of the first band to really impress me through their lyrical content. Their first album contain some lyrical gems like "Des Médecins Malades Et Des Saints Séquestres"
Yeah, I enjoy it a lot. It's Famine's way of expression. His satire reminds me of a better Mark Twain (mind you I don't like Twain, so it's really hard for me to say that) that kind of jests at serious subjects with outrageous lyrics and makes fun to get to a very well-developed point.
I love Peste Noire. Amazing band.
@@lotsapasta0858 mad online. Go listen to 100 gecs
@@lotsapasta0858 They made really good music
@@lotsapasta0858 do you like black metal in general?
@@SlyHikari03 yea racism is super interesting man
@@okbuddy6792 yes it is
i love peste noire and needledrop and chelsea wolfe
Wonder when he’s going to delete this.
Lyrics are a lower priority with me for rock and metal, especially if the vocal style or audio mix would require me to read along to understand what's being said, for the most part, the vocals are just another instrument to me.
However, I've never been able to give rap the same treatment. I wouldn't say rap has worse lyrics than rock/metal, it's just that when they are "meh", it's more noticeable to me.
I think this is a significant factor for why I can't listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop.
+DonMezzo Yeah, me too.
+Jordan K. Is that a Kyuss album cover as your profile picture?
This is likely due to the fact that in certain genres such as Rap and Country and most Pop, the lyrics are at the forefront of the work. The only artist I can think of who blurs hip-hop lyrics is Death Grips, and even they include written lyrics when you purchase their albums.
Same thing with rap and other pop music, lyrics are much more noticeable. Black Metal especially I rarely focus on the lyrics, can't hear them anyways. It's all about good riffs and atmosphere for me.
yung inhalt It was, I'm still a fan of Josh Homme and all that shit.
I think the message is important if the artist has an important message... if that makes sense, especially if that message is important to the listener.
Bob Marley has great messages - his music, to me, is about the message as much as the music. On the other hand, Death's album Scream Bloody Gore is not about the message at all. It's about the music. Some of their later work has some more important messages to be heard, and those albums have a more valuable message.
I don't think it matters. I could literally listen to a song that "advocates" raping women, killing people, homophobia, vandalism, terrorism, anarchy, etc and still give it a chance simply because the instrumentation and arrangement is undeniable. People forget artists are suppose to paint a picture and often develop a character for themselves to be as honest and vivid as possible. Even in this fairy tale scenario it IS still a reflection of society. Therefore any perspective on an issue should be allowed and expected. Hell, I'm black, I would still listen and possibly appreciate a record even if it's racist as fuck if the music is just undeniable....just don't expect me at one of your shows.
Chad mindset
Anarchy is good tho
The thing is: when you know your music, and love it, you start to develop some kind of affinity with the musicians involved. I find myself sometimes listening to, let's say, Black Sabbath, and shouting "shit! Tony, you nailed that solo...you rock!".
The fact that this would happen with a person you don't like would make it contradictory and therefore much more interesting. You just have to put more thought into it, which makes you grows as a person/listener. Listening to somebody whom I totally agree with would be boring. Unless he makes good music.
*boom* amazing comment!!!
Well looking back at this and that you removed the Deathspell Omega album review of 2019 makes it a bit hilarious hearing you saying these words.
When I listen to a Kanye West album, I see Kanye as a character in the albums story. And honestly, his albums are fucking incredible. But It was only once I started examining Kanye from a distance, and listening to his projects as if they were little stories, that they became really funny, or biting, or whatever Kanye was going for. He is unquestionably narcissistic and has made some mistakes in his life, but when I separated him from his music, I started seeing his genius, and I kind of respect him quite a bit now. Just my 2 cents.
+Urine Denial Your profile picture is bugging me so bad
+Jake Nash the backwards nature of it?
YESSSSSSSS
Urine Denial I really agree with you on this man. His albums as a whole are really immersive and give you a really good visual of how Kanye was feeling and going through, when you're listening to whatever track. Also I've noticed that as time goes by, and you go back and listen to your older favorites from him, you understand what he's saying and imo enjoy it more.
Urine Denial Good on you man! I've heard some of his songs and heard from some people he's good. But, I just can't see past his ego or push myself to listen to a whole rap/hip hop album. Not my thing :(
@TheSethIkrass think of your favorite album ever. if the message were changed to something completely different--but the album's sonic qualities remained the same--do you see yourself enjoying it as much?
Let me say Anthony, so glad you made this video. In my view, the music and the message are literally inseparable. The truth is, how you hear an album is how the artists INTENDED for you to hear it. They created that music with something in mind, which includes both the message of the lyrics and the attitude of the music.
As far as whether you should support artists whose lifestyles you don't agree with.... that's a bit tougher.
here's an example i haven't seen:
I can't listen to some of the weeknd's music for example, despite liking the sound, bc his lyrics are too sexually explicit, I don't mean to be a snob or whatever, it just makes me uncomfortable
keep in mind I'm 15 lol I probs sound like a loser now but I typed this out so
Not a loser. Many people sort of over expose themselves to things just to "get it" and then lose their sensitivity to their previously held moral standards. Kind of reminds me of the one girl from Saturday Night Fever..
You're not a loser lol, The weeknd's lyrics make me unfortable too, but i eventually found a way to look past the lyrics, just listen to the music, and I enjoy it for that. But at the same time; for that reason, The weeknd could never be close to an of my favorite artists.Gish is great btw
You don't sound like a loser at all.
I'm the same I don't like sexually explicit music, what if that comes up when I'm shuffling my playlist and people hear it, they'd think I was a weirdo or something
You don't sound like a loser, and The Weeknd's lyrics sound too sexual for me too
racist bassline? somebody call the GameGrumps
Forgot to delete this one huh 😅
Peste noire is basically the most difficult example of a message tending to overlap the music. For most NSBM bands, all the nazi/white power thing has nothing to do with the black metal spirit (meaning at some point bands fail to understand their own stuff), that's actually what the leader of peste noire himself said recently.
So I personally don't really mind if a band has stupid ideas if I like their music, I may just not be willing to get into it if I feel it's just another generic band using a certain imagery/ideology to sell records (what happens in french black metal and french rap), without real talent nor artistic interest.
However, being french and seing that among the hype this release started, many people outstandingly approving both music and message (and considering that in some case the ideology must have been the decisive factor), I am very careful about peste noire, which, I have to admit, is a very innovative band (and I'll never blame them for it). Since now they're clearly done with all the black metal street-cred thing, they have a fan base, which is for a big part agreeing with the whole right-wing anarchism weird thing of the band, which doesn't want to be seen as a butthurt nsbm band anymore. This is of course has to do with the political climate in France, and the fact that there's a kinda personality cult around the band. Despite the fact I like their music, I personally don't want be seen as a fan (in the sense of fanatic) nor will I ever support them in any way.
Moreover, now for peste noire, the message and the music are very related, that's artistically speaking a very good thing, and thus I can't consider them as harmless idiots, but as one of the first truly politically engaged bm bands (blackened crust left aside). They're in some way having "racist basslines" (though their bassist is asian). All the non metal part are satires of what they despise in the french society, all the ghetto culture for instance, and all the racism that implies.
Messages definitely matter. I believe artists hold more power than they think. Music is a very effective way to convey an emotion, idea, ideology, and the music itself makes it easy to have that message really stick in your head. I wouldn't say that just the music is ever enough to push someone to do radical things, but it shows there is support behind it which makes it easier. Furthermore, when you support an artist you help that music spread and therefore spread their message.
I don't know, as a metalhead for more than 25 years, I'm long past caring about the lyrics. Maybe I am wrong, but the only thing that matters to me is whether I get a kick from the music.
I need a good message in my music if I want to keep listening to it over the years and for it to find a place in my heart. I like good music, or instrumentals, but that isn't necessarily everything. The message isn't essential, but it keeps me listening to it.
I usually try to ignore the message or themes of a band if offensive. It can actually help to enhance the music since even though it is offensive, it's often (in the case of Black Metal,) very prideful, and the musicians' pride will sometimes show through the hard work and dedication to the music that they portray. I think it's important, of course, to acknowledge that not everyone will agree, and that everyone listens to music in a different way. For me personally, I don't mind offensive or controversial topics.
Famine, the lead singer and writer of the bands music - as far as I know - writes with a lot of satirical shit, good shit. In interviews you can find that he's not a serious person. Hell the music itself is ridiculous, it's poetry filled with satirical hints.
Refer to this interview:
Famine: I will simply state, as an admirer of French culture, that Peste Noire is not linked to Nazism despite what has been abundantly said. I felt the need to set things straight since the main question surrounding Peste Noire was ‘Is he a Nazi or not?'. Why would I be a neonazi when the Nazis did all they could to take over France and fuck its citizens over, a nation they had no respect for whatsoever? I say this with sincere passion for French culture since my case is special : I am partly of German extraction and one of my Alsatian ancestors voluntarily fought alongside the Nazis in Norway. I share all the characteristics of an Aryan man, from the colour of my eyes down to my blond pubic hair… Hell, I could easily be a neo-Nazi with no complex whatsoever (I always chuckle when black-eyed, dark-skinned mongrels want to give me lessons on what National-Socialism is all about and consider me a degenerate). Racist I am not. Call me instead a racialist. I do not like the imperialistic and supremacist aspects of Nazism. The way I see it is that all cultures have the right to exist, although separated from one another…nonetheless they all have the right to exist. After all, there is a heavy Germanic influence in France, the best example being the origin of the country's name, which comes from the Germanic tribe called the Franks… Nazi Germany's will to subdue the French and the Slavs was simply retarded; Germany, which lies at the heart of Europe, being itself an ethnic melting-pot of Slavs, Celts and many other peoples. It's hilarious that the person who inspired Hitler the most, Gobineau - a Frenchman! - considered Germany as the most bastardized country of all Europe, claiming that the last true Aryans were to be found in England and Scandinavia. When, in the past, I used swastikas or other Nazi symbols, it was exactly for the purpose of symbolism : the symbol for the final and decisive battle against all that is prevalent in today's modern world : the irreversible victory of cross-bred jewmerican liberalism and everything it stands for, i.e. stupidity and the absence of values. Nazism, now more punk than ever, represents the perfect anti-symbol to present-day dominant ideologies (the masochistic human rights movement and cosmopolitan capitalism).
Varangian
That's actually pretty thoughtful.
@@Vaerangian Where did you take that from? Is it an interview Famine did?
@@Vaerangian "The way I see it is that all cultures have the right to exist, although separated from one another…nonetheless they all have the right to exist." This in itself is already a major dogwhistle, or should I say airhorn, to fascists. That's not even mentioning
-the phrase "Nazism, now more punk than ever",
-the whining about a "masochistic human rights movement" (that's a nice euphemism for "sigh, do I wish brown people still didn't have rights"),
-the crying about an "absence of values",
-the descriptors "cosmopolitan" and - sweet jesus fuck - "cross-bred jewmerican liberalism".
By claiming all this is just satire and jokes you are willfully closing your eyes to the reality. The band is also openly embedded in the Nazi BM scene. Are they doing that out of irony, too? Is the entire scene ironical perhaps? This isn't new by the way; claiming to make their antidemocratic statements with an undertone of "satire" and "irony" has been the alt-right's main strategy of legitimizing themselves for many years.
Decide for yourself what stand you want to take in relation to bands that embrace fascist ideology. But. At least be honest to yourself and do not deny that ideology's presence.
Lol this comment aged like milk
There's more music out there, than I could ever listen to in my life.
Truly.
Waiting for this to be deleted lol
Instrumental music. Problem solved.
+Reuben Solly Interestingly enough, albums like Raise Your Skinny Fists Like Antennas To Heaven can still express a message without the help of lyrics. Food for thought.
+Trestrope Yep. That whole part at the end of Storm really conveyed this sort of world where you're being watched or prompted to buy things. The guy in Storm talking about God made me think these guys didn't like religion, the old man talking about this place used to be the playground of the world. All message stuff coming from an instrumental.
Fashwave?
This is a nice thought that you've given here. Did you notice, that lately a lot of the music that's popular avoids a message at all? Take all the (as i am used to call it) abstract electronica (like the bunch of dubstep made for the sake of making dubstep) that's just.. THERE,with like no intellectual communication with the listener whatsoever.. and a lot of people need that! some sort of background noise that won't try to interact with you and ask you questions..
Oh boy the Kanye take didn't age well AT ALL 💀💀💀
I was about to say this. "Kanye can come off like a jerk" boy...does he now!
and now we are here
Hmmm...I think this is one of your best questions Anthony. If I don't agree with the message of some albums and I enjoy the music, then I'll usually be very passive about the lyrics and not worry about it, but there are lines for me concerning messages, not because I'm being strict with myself, but because I just don't like listening to music with a wrong message. That's probably the reason why I'm sooo picky with rap music, I just think too much of it is degrading, but it depends.
How do you feel about skrewdriver?
Anthony is a Skinhead
Love the message of love for my people they're spreading, I defend the fatherland my ancestors built for me and I am not obliged to tolerate subversive elites or welcome the sweepings of the world to replace us.
Skrewdriver is a mediocreband.
Since I watched this video a few weeks ago, I have felt in love with the Black Metal of Komando Peste Noire. The music is so frigging good that I don't care about the message. I'm a mexican guy, so listening that the last chorus at the end of the first song sings: "SUPREMACY ARYAN" kinda tells me what's going on, and even like that, I don't care, cause the middle song (sorry, I don't know french) the on with 20 minutes, is so full of french power that I can't stopo loving the hell out of that record. Thanks Anthony Fantano, you showed one of my favorite bands this far, so, for me, message doesn't matter for me at all. (I'm also a huge Burzum fan, so yeah, message doesn't matter).
Same thing happened to me! I'm a huge KPN fan! Thanks Blackthony Metaltano!
David Sosa I see what you did there 👀
Dear god, the message is super important. I guess it might be the fact that I listened to a lot of Bob Marley growing up, but I just can't stand inane bullshit and ignant sillyness I often hear. Most of the music I listen to doesn't even have lyrics. I listen to the track and just enjoy the aesthetic. Other times, I'll listen to a track specifically because it has a message that I think is well presented or especially powerful. I guess however much I like the bassline, I feel a bit iffy about the bassline being played in service of WHITE POWER or WHITE POWDER or some such bullshit. Kanye I can bear, because no one actually cares about Kanye other than Kanye.
answering your question about whether message and music are tied, well they are, and maybe that's why sometimes you cannot embrace some music as you can other,like you like the sound of it but it doesn't fully click with or inspire you cos the message is just not something you want to hear,but you know, it's very abstract, personal and has many different ways to happen in different levels. All I'm glad is there still are people who look for messages and take challenges the artists offer them.
I remembered this vid when Paul Ryan said his favorite band was RATM. I mean, at least two members are self-described Communists. How much of their message does the average fan agrees with? Ryan has some pretty extreme views in economics and social policy, maybe he can identify with the desire of a radical reform of society, even if he is the diametric opposite.
I believe that the way a songs written portrays an emotion, and the message you input flows with that emotion. So if the emotion is good or bad, agreeing or disagreeing, its up to the maker on how its displayed.
Peste Noire's music, and specially on that album, is purely satirical and borderline parody, Famine himself has said it's hyperbolic and that he just wanted the essence of Peste Noire to be the most disgusting, overly french, stinking and offensive entity possible, i MEAN he compared Peste Noire to a bottle of piss lol
On one hand, yeah, but on the other hand, Famine is very much a nationalist, and PN does play live shows on right-aligned festivals. Notably, Napalm Death canceled their Blastfest show after Peste Noire were added to the lineup of the festival.
I love Napalm Death music, but the same like nazi bands, i can listen to them but their believes are complete fucking shit
What I like about Famine's form of satire is that it maintains an underlying sense of seriousness cloaked in over the top satirical lyrics. The lyrics on L'ordure à l'état pur are quite interesting to say the least and represent a resentment towards the modern culture of France by providing a glimpse into how Famine views the various cultural identities that exist in modern France through the use of stereotypical imagery that depicts said cultures. This album attacks the urban street culture of France in the song Cochon Carotte et les sœurs Crotte by using intentionally misspelled words, over the top misogyny, and nonsensical phrases that highlight just how redundant he feels this culture is.
On J’avais rêvé du Nord (I Had a Dream of the North) he looks at the Mediterranean culture of southern France and how it is no longer even French culture and as the song shifts into serious black metal, a genre born from northern culture, the lyrics become less satirical and become more serious. The song is a longing for France to return to its northern roots yet it embraces some satire to further illustrate his point. An example from the song in English...
"Because where I was born is no longer France,
Our Gothic splendors:
Now decaying ruins of stone
Tagged with exotic swear words…"
Astaroth Belial lol in interviews he talks about how much the band is Nationalist and "Racialist" and it's very Serious, they even work with Action Française a royalist far right association
I guess Militantzone and Azov are also satirical
I relate to what you say in this video. When i was 11, and I knew little English, I used to listen to One in a Million (G N' R). I loved it. I enjoyed the beat and Axl Rose's singing, too. It sounded like a nice, cool love song to me. Then I got older, learned some more English, and realized what he sang in the verses of that song. I couldn't enjoy it the same way anymore. Matter of fact, I hate the song and who wrote it now. But I still catch myself humming it, sometimes.
My Needle Drops? Ew.
samson What does needle drop means?
Christopher Niels Gutiérrez Torres when you drop the needle on a record player
i feel this way about a lot of bands.
no, it's not necessary to agree with every appreciated musician's ideology
yes, it's good to be aware of the scope of a musician's message.
yes', it's ok to enjoy melodies made by someone who is not on the same moral plane as you, the listener.
then again, that's just what i think.
several examples could be made in the political/moral/cultural/personal aspect, but... i think it's good to question and listen to a musician's context.
VIVE LA FRANCE
I'm glad you made this video, because I would often listen to an album that I think sounds great, but the lyrics would put me off either because I disagree or that I am just completely indifferent to the message because it has been addressed so many times before. It's nice to know that it may be acceptable to like an album despite its lyrical content, or at least that I'm not the only one who is confused.
I came upon Peste Noire the other night and was hooked. No band has ever hit me like that. So not even a minute into whatever song it was, I start researching this band. I find that they're racist, and got all confused on how to proceed. I had just heard some of the most fucked up noise, pure rage, but I don't want to support them. Now I'll quote a pastor I had a falling out with, "There is no Christian music, there are only Christian lyrics." So I guess the message I'm concerned about lies within the lyrics. It is ONLY the lyrics that keep me at bay from Peste Noire. The instrumentation is bad ass!
I don't mind really offensive messages as long as they're not repetitive messages that you hear in every song and its always nice to know other peoples point of views towards something
When you want to give a 9/10 but it’s racist
Just give it an 8/10. Points knocked off for being gay.
For me its a catch 22, because I love music, period. However, I think it stops for me in regard to support or becoming a fan, when the message that is thrown out there by an artist, I don't agree with becomes forced upon me or starts to outshine the great sounds they put across. If it continues on each track, or if it portrays their lifestyle on every song...then yeah, I tend to get turned off by it, no matter how good the music is...
I guess message only matters if it coming from Deathspell Omega right? Slightly hypocritical
It's almost like peoples opinions might change over the course of over half a decade.
morbideddie Fair point. Still don't understand why he had to submit to these uneducated snowflakes and take down his Deathspell Omega review. A little bit of research would have revealed that they are not a nazi band at all and the latest album has nothing to do with glorying fascism.
@@Tha3rdworldghost Agreed. DSO are not a NSBM band and him taking down the review was a dumb move imho. Having Aspa as a session vocalist Is understandably controversial but he has no input on the bands lyrics which are clearly not nationalist.
That said I think this video is reasonable, he doesnt say much concrete and seems fairly in the middle of this issue, and this was half a decade ago before the whole issue with Fader where he got cancelled. Personally I dont listen to any NSBM on principle and while I think the move with DSO was a misstep since they arent NSBM I respect his more recent position of not wanting to associate with any NSBm or anything related to such projects.
Also it's wierd that he took that review down but he still has Mayhem, Burzum, Leviathan, Daughters reviews up, he even did a Emperor classic review where he called the drum performances "killer". It's wierd that he took down that specific review, but reviews of more controversial bands are still up
Honestly, i think this is a great point to bring up. Being a lyricist and writer, i would like to think that i pay more attention than others to the message. In saying this, i really feel like the only music i listen to with a message i don't really agree with is some hip-hop and rap..but even then i can suspend belief and 'morals' for a bit to enjoy the lyrics for what they are: an expression of that artists thoughts, etc. Just my .02.
You can avoid this problem by doing like me, and simply refusing to believe that musicians are even capable a having a message in their produced music. Like you said, you can't have a racist bass line; I extend this principle to the lyrics themselves, and have come to the conclusion that the sounds that peoples' voices make are simply another addition to the sonic arrangement.
Mark Wahlberg Thank you sir. This needed to be said.
Mark Wahlberg The core principle of what Anthony said cannot apply to the lyrics. You can't extend that principle, because the very core of the principle was that a sound, cannot be racist, because it's a sound. The lyrics, are lyrics. They are words you can make sense of. Not to say that you shouldn't enjoy the music if you don't like the message, but you can't pretend that the message doesn't exist.
MestariDuff Yeah but words only make it into the song if they are phonetically appropriate for that particular section. In that way, all the "meaning" behind the idea gets filtered through the aesthetic principles associated with selling music to a commercial audience. Considering that, I'm not in a rush to give musicians good or bad credit for whatever message they claim to have - it's just the wrong medium for it. That's why people write essays or do symposiums when they want to get messages across. Music is for fun.
Mark Wahlberg No, words don't "only make it into the song if they are phonetically appropriate". That's juste not true. If you take Peste Noire as an example, which is the main example used in this video, you have a pretty clear example of a band that focuses on the lyrics content more then the way they will sound in the track. PN actively seeks to be sound raw, disgusting and messy. They have no interest for how the words come out sonically. You also can't presume that all bands and artists focus more on how well something sound sonically then they focus on the message. It highly depends on the bands and artists's preferences. And finally, you can't presume that all musicians make music just for fun, and that they don't care about the message. Some hardcore music in the US, and some national socialist black metal in Europe is used to recruit kids and promote racism, racial and exclusive nationalism, and even violence.
You seriously need to distinguish your personal preferences and how you perceive/enjoy your music, versus the historical and sociological facts.
Lol
I catch myself thinking that I care, but...never really did. And I don't really have to worry about it, because I don't support artists...cold harsh truth. I don't buy albums or tracks, I stream music. Here's the thing, though...I would probably only buy something specifically from an artist these days if I agreed with the whole package.
I know that the aspect of supporting the artist financially is not part of this video. But that's how things have changed. Years ago that would have been an integral part of this question. And MUCH harder to come to terms with.
CHELSEA WOLFE
Jedi Mind Tricks would be a good example for me. I don't have the same beliefs on homosexuality or religion, but I don't care. Violent By Design is one of my favorite hip hop albums of all time.
GUCCINI MANETANO
TRAPTONY TRAPTRAPTRAP
I think it is very important for the music community to constantly reaffirm the separation between music and message. It is up to us to make that distinction, because the mainstream crowd doesn't care about lyrics anyway.
What's the name of the album behind him?
archetypiarz it's Chelsea Wolf but I don't remember the album title
I think the message is vital to liking the artist that makes the music, because if you buy their stuff and you just like the music but the massage seems wrong to you, you still supporting the massage, so its a bit of a pickle. I guess you cant just switch of liking their music, so in the end you just have to see if you can justify for yourself listening and in the end supporting the Artist.
I guess its a bit late for this comment when the video was uploaded in 2011 but I still had to make it.
Arne Enra It depends how much the artist honestly subscribes to these messages. Robin Thicke is someone I do not want to support, but if I come across a simple love song with really great live instrumentation I'm more inclined to buy it because I want to support those who worked on the song to make it sound so good, not as much the song writer, but I'll still be okay with buying it because the message isn't as strong, even though that message from this love song exists just as much as any other song's message. Maybe it means something to the writer, but not as much to me, I'll just like listening to it, and I think those who contributed to that deserve their share. If the song was made by one person then purchasing it is simply a matter of "does the message conflict with me enough for me to not buy it." Renard, sick music, been known to be an abusive relationship partner, would not buy. Magic!, it's about guys and girls and loving one another, I don't need to hear it but yeah I'll still buy it because it sounds really nice.
I listen to so much Black Metal now that vocals are really just another instrument at this point.
Case in point would be Drudkh. Black Metal roar and its all in Ukrainian anyway. But I am devoted to this music.
I am aware that there is a charge of far right leveled at them but it has no effect on me listening to the music. The music creates its own images in my head and that suits me just fine.
Besides whats wrong with being a little bit nationalistic?
Wanting whats best for your country & culture is a dangerous idea, tread carefully.
@@ChodeMaster ah I dunno....I've no problem speaking my mind on these matters
@@ChodeMaster lol
I can't listen to anything I find to be morally offensive. Its happened such that I've listened to music over and over without a clue to the lyrical content until one day for whatever reason I happen to really "hear" it and instantly, a song I've loved for its sheer musical melody is ruined by its abhorrent lyrics. Tolerance is a good thing but I have my beliefs and ideals too. I can't rightly sit and listen to musical poison for the sake of being "tolerant."
This Album is incredible and in my eyes the best Black metal Album in this Millenium. His ideology seems pretty dull, though.
Dull is the furthest from what it is.
messages fucking matter. very much so
Try to feels the history of the country before judging the message behind those kind of lyric. There is nothing wrong with the idea of protecting the culture that our ancestors fought for.
In a lot of cases the message is what will keep me coming back to an album. There are albums I hear that I really enjoy but I don't find myself listening to all that often because the message either doesn't sit well with me or it's boring. If an album is interesting and good musically and carries a good or interesting message, I'm much more inclined to give it repeated listens.
Here's my solution to this dilemma: I don't give a fuck
@theneedledrop I am as well. I feel their sound is so unique (not necessarily completely original) that you can pick them out within hearing a few seconds and say "That's Rage (or Audioslave if you ignore vocals)." I like when artists differentiate themselves significantly while still retaining strong songwriting and delivery. That's a big reason why I like that Death Grips album you reviewed. I can't compare it to anything I've heard before. It's in a "genre" of its own, if you will
Black Metal is a 100% European music which glorify our pagan ancestors, if you dont like get over with it.
BioLeatherface Deafheaven?
Deafheaven are not Black Metal. They're Screamo mixed with Shoegaze.
Would you like to back up your claim? As far as shoe gaze goes yes, that's undeniable; however, Deafheaven uses blast-beats, the singer uses mainly high-pitched BM vocal style (as appose to switching to a glam metal vocal style, as screamo does), and the guitarist doesn't shy away from Black-Metal scales. Not to mention the actual lyrics being really deep and dark. Lastly, I've not seen any article ever that says Deafheavem is Screamo. Care to reply?
+Ward he didn't care to reply
Sarcofago?
One would not want to support what they feel is negative for their experience. However, censorship based on personal preference isn't ideal either. I think that the divisor is quite clear: one should enjoy the music sonally, but not necessarily endorse it if they don't agree with the message. I do believe that some explaination as-to why you aren't endorsing it would be nice, so whoever is watching your review understands why you feel the way you do.
I reaallly don't see what's so bad about wanting your culture, your ethnic group to survive. Japanese people have a homogenous society, and no one gives them shit for it.
There's a difference between survival and supremacy. If you're proud of your culture, cool, show not only your kids but other people your customs. Cook them food, play them music, tell them stories, nothing wrong with that. If you try to beat down or out-do another persons culture it's a problem.
One classic line I hear from racists a lot is "diversity equals white genocide" which is one of the dumbest concerns I've ever heard. Diversity is what makes the world interesting and unique, the ability to learn new languages, experience new foods and traditions and meet people that are different.
Also, homogenous traditions in asain cultures are an undeniable part of their past, but a lot of the more liberal and progressive countries like Japan, South Korea and Hong Kong are breaking those traditions every day.
***** Right, that's why America only has one culture right?
Protip: It doesn't
***** You can still have cultures mix and still retain your roots.
John King
How is the flooding of European countries with immigrants and degenerate values helping the diversity actually?
*****
Wow, it's almost like you just admitted that your culture isn't being attacked, but rather that parts of your culture are now included within the public discourse.
What's wrong, Rob N? Do you think your culture weak and not worth keep around? Are you insecure, Rob N? Do you think this insecurity stems from your culture? I'd so love to know. Get back to me okay :)
Like in all other arts, message and meaning is important to music. Music has always had a major influence on culture, society, and even politics (the 60's). We do have to be careful of what messages we condone or tolerate in case they become popular and widespread. Indifference to offensive or dangerous messages can make you part of the problem.
However, if the message is harmless from a social or political viewpoint, I see no problem in enjoying the music even if u don't agree.
Anthony Fagtano
Ultimately I'd say that many people have already faced this problem with other types of art such as literature. French author Louis-Ferdinand Céline collaborated with the nazis during the occupation of France, he wrote some hateful stinking books but also magnificent nihilist ones and he is considered the greatest French author of the 20th century along with Albert Camus. So I think liking a book or an album is not necessarily embrassing all of it and refusing to have a critical point of view.
i am disgusted by your inability to understand.. you're blinded by your social conditioning. you'd read nietzsche and say "i like the writing but the message offends me"? you like the music but want to preserve your liberal integrity and assure people you're not racist or sexist, like you perceive famine to be. i think you are simply missing the point entirely. provocation is key, embracing ugliness, blood sacrifice, crushing your own "comfort zone". you're too weak for this.
You're funny
2edgy4me
#fakdeep
@MastroCicio Do you also hate horror movies? Do you hate black humor in general? If you look deeper into his music it's not all about "raping bitches." The whole "Bastard" album is basically a concept album about how he turned out all fucked up and immature because he had to grow up without a father. His music has made me cry.
I can get how it isn't important to some people, but for me it really is. That's why I have problems with rap music alot, especialy when the lyrics is mainly the rapper bragging about how much shit he got
I liked Logics mixtape, I like murs and mf doom alot too.
First off, awesome video Anthony! Definitely an interesting topic, and it's nice to see you've put some serious though into it. As for myself I think it's acceptable to shy away from a certain song/album/even artist if their message is just too polarizing for you. I know I've done it before even if, like you mentioned, sonically I really enjoyed the work, that voice in the back of my head reminding what it's about just ruins the experience. I would type more but I only get so many characters!
@musicismyfavorite777 Also, to try and clear up what I meant. A poem is only a poem, and an instrumental song is only an instrumental song, but when introduced to each other I do believe that they become one, and the message is very vital. If it wasn't, it wouldn't and shouldn't be there.
It depends I guess. I don't feel anything when I think about the lyrics of "Pigs (3 diffefent ones)" or "on the turning away" but those are some of my favourite Pink Floyd songs
the message is hugely important to me in a song, a poor message or a bad message can ruin a good song for me, not in that the music now sounds bad, but it just takes something really vital out of the music for me.
(FOLLOWING ON FROM MY PREVIOUS COMMENT) So basically I think artist should expertiment more with conveying messages, and really linking the sounds of the songs with those message. It gives another dimension to the music and it may even help somebody, in more ways than just a rhythem to dance to. Look at John Lennon, his greatest gift to society was his message.
Subject, form, and content, man. Distinct parts of a piece of art. All three have a part in the final beauty of the piece, so sure, an album can be ruined with a bad content. I think we can still appreciate the form while saying the overall beauty is not so great.
In a way, the music can have an effect on you physically. Like you can’t stop moving. And in a way I feel like I decode a certain emotion first when I listen to a song. Or connect it to a point in my life.
English is not my native language so when I started to like music I simply thought of the singing track as another layer of the song like any other instrumental. Mostly I listen to music still like this, I only take a look at the lyrics if I really get hooked on the song for a few days.
2. But other - less bloody topics are rather a matter of everyone personally. I always said some of Pink Floyd's albums had a MASSIVE impact on my formative years, but there's gonna be someone who had different times and is gonna disagree with me if he does not feel the same things as portrayed on, say, The Wall.
This is exactly what everyone needs to hear. So well put dude. This is exactly how i feel about music like this.
Fantano...very curious, I would like too see a video on who your favorite artist/groups in each type of music??? Possibly a top 5 for each catagory?? I would love a video like that :)
Thumbs this up so he can read it please!
Honestly dude, now that you're saying that, I think I've never been into lyrics too much, I'm more a intrumental music listener cuz that's pretty much that matters to me, well being myself mexican, and all bands I listen to are rather american or european, lyrics don't have that impact in me, even if i look up to them, I try to read them and finf connection, but sometimes I juts feel there's no need to look up to that. Music, just that, sound, notes, vibrations, beat, all that is what Iove.
i think that the thing that bothers me most is the message in songs or song lyrics itself. A message that is cliche or not described in the artist's own way really puts me down, or lyrics like "dj turn it up" or "get on the floor" make me sick. No matter how great the melody is, the message and the lyrics have to go with it, or else it just doesn't resinate with me
Mindless Self Indulgence's lyrics are, well. you know. But I still enjoy their music. As for lyrics being tightly wound around music's message, I'm not sure. Often, I will love a band's lyrics, but when I check them out in text, they're not good. It's like the singer's emotion brings the words to life. This influences me a lot, and my opinion on poetry depends on whether I read it or heard it sung. Which is why lyrics I don't agree with I love sometimes. I don't know. Good question.
As a non native english speaker, I started loving music through a lot of things I did not understand. I would do some researches if i really liked one song but the message part never really bothered me as long as I was still pretty young. Now I feel that message does matter, but I also found myself listening to music without paying attention to the lyrics, just as a way to chill out. So I don't really feel there is a firm answer to that question...
Tim Hecker - Mirages, best message I ever heard!
I'm just glad to see that I'm not the only one that is torn on this issue.
I feel like everything has gotten so complex and I'm not just talking about music.
It all makes me long for my childhood when things seemed so much more simple.
Maybe I should just only listen to Van Halen from now on...😑
I find that ultimately the aesthetic and the message do go hand in hand. I could tell what Peste Noire were going for without ever reading any lyrics or even understanding the song titles: the medievalist and nationalist themes are really present in their aesthetic as there is a much more positive kind of melodic grandeur that you are only going to get with a positive culture affirming outlook like Traditionalism or Nationalism- as opposed to the usual nihilism, coldness and subversion that Black Metal bands love.
I do not listen to music with leftist themes for this reason that you spoke of- but I find that with a good aesthetic sense we can usually tell what kind of message is being portrayed with most music- I can tell from most Crust Punk that it is going for resentment, dissolution, anarchy, destroying societal roles and subversion from the "victim" position. The musical barbarism, roughness in revolt of aesthetic beauty, angry and emotional vocal and song styles without much power to back it up ect- all point to the kind of ideology those bands support.
I find it interesting when people have this conflict because it probably means they are somewhat sympathetic to an aspect of the ideology in question( of course this may even be just a small aspect of it) without knowing it because they've only considered it in one, negative way.
If the band or artist has lyrics then the message better be there. Instrumentals obviously don't need to, but anything with lyrics for me almost has to have this ideology behind it. However, I've never been bothered by an opposing message. When I run into an artist that is what you're describing, I either take it at face value, or I look at it from their view. You know, if you've ever read Mein Kampf or Donald Trump's books or even the communist manifesto (just examples), you don't always have to agree with them. You read it to understand what it is that you don't like.
Or,n you could use the music to humanize who you don't agree with. Realize that, hey, these are people. People you disagree with can be good, and they can make good things and can even be your friend.
I'M SO GLAD YOU BROUGHT THIS UP!!! I was just thinking about this actually and I feel the generalmessage is a big part of the determining audience. For example, anyone that likes lil B enjoys the message he gives off with his actions/words. If a makeshift Waka Flocka-esque artist who endorsed knowledge came onto the scene i'm not sure Waka Flocka fans would hop on the bandwagon. (cont)
Why does everyone think nationalism is a bad thing? Nationalism means love to your language and culture, it doesn't automaticly mean hatered to people outside of it. Nationalism is a huge creative power and the fact that Adolf got it wrong and mixed ethnical and racial elements into it doesn't mean a thing to what nationalism is and could positively be used for.
Patriotism means that you love your country. Nationalism means that you overrate your country to all other countries.
casperado666
I am sorry but you are wrong. Here is -as a shortcut- the definition you can find on Wikipedia (and like in most dictionaries) the definition of "nationalism": "Nationalism is a belief, creed or political ideology that involves an individual identifying with, or becoming attached to, one's nation. Nationalism involves national identity, by contrast with the related construct of patriotism, which involves the social conditioning and personal behaviors that support a state's decisions and actions"
If you read the article further you will notice that nationalism is not the same as patriotism. You love your country? You are a patriot. Your country is the greatest on earth? You are a patriot with nationalistic streak. You don't differ between country and nation and still are the opinion that it's the greatest thing on earth? You are nationalist. If the own nation is the best thing ever you automatically downgrad all other nations. Nationalism refers to a nation and nation is not equal to country.
Just to remember: This is not my personal opinion. I just quoted the "scientific common sense". There is also no judgement (good thing/bad thing) about nationalism/patriotism in this "scientifc common sense".
Sorry for any mistakes in spelling or so, English isn't my main language.
I agree with the part beginning with "I find any distinct culture in the world valuable ..." until the end. I also think that globalization can be harmful to all cultures. But I don't see only the negative aspect of globalization, I think there a good aspects too. It can bring cultures together and create new culture as the same time as it can destroy a current culture. In my opinion "globalization" is just life and some kind of "evolutionary thing". Humanity started in caves and little families, more different families became a village, villages became towns and so on. Now we have nations. Humanity has left behind the caves and villages and humanity we nations leave behind too. I also think I will not experience this point in human history because it will happen in a far, far future and than I am dead ;)
If you don't mind I would like to explain the whole thing nationalisms I think I have understood so far and what I think that is this "scientifc common sense" I mentioned in my language (German) later. I'm going to have some beer and Peste Noire now.
Bjaerke actually I agree with you as of now. I think the term nationalism is overloaded with negative historical connotations and therefore attracts closed minded morons which I wouldn't like to see in my close proximity. I think I'd rather call myself a global culturalist nowadays (even though I don't know if the term even exists, but it's kinda self-explanatory). I agree with you that nations will be abolished at some point. I also agree that cultures will change in time. I just hope we will not be the same grey mass in the decades to come as it'll be a very sad thing for me to experience. Cheers and have a nice day!
A song like CREAM from Wu-Tang is entertaining, yet has an underlying message that I didn't really catch until after multiple listens, and I respect Wu-Tang for the wisdom that comes with the central idea/message in the song.
depends on how the message is delivered, whether you agree or disagree with the message is beside the point, its how it is delivered, if the singer is passionate and truly believes in what hes saying and you can hear it through the vocals.
I'm pretty sure the Oriental riff can be racist in the right context. That being said, despite being as open minded as possible, there are still some borders I won't cross (NSBM for instance).
If you dont agree you shouldnt listen. Maybe look for an instrumental.
I think so when it comes to getting an opinion/statement out there for the people to hear. Granted, not everyone is going to agree/like the message being presented, but others will. For me, if the message isn't all that good to me but the instrumental is, then I can tolerate it.
All in all, as long as the message isn't laced with ignorance or arrogance, the message is important to making a song. This is my opinion.
I think that the message does have to be taken into account when it comes to music because it is part of the art. One must appreciate the message as well as the music to appreciate the piece of art in its totality. Once you start advocating music that sounds good, but has a bad message, you are kind of supporting and propagating that message, and that could actually hurt people's feelings.
Over my years of listening to music, I've noticed that lyrical content really doesn't matter much to me. My wife has sometimes objected to the music I was listening to because of the lyrics, but didn't even notice until I re-listened to the song. I guess I don't absorb much of a message unless I've listened to an album tons. It's mostly about the instrumentation for me. I'm really into Heartbeat by Childish Gambino, and didn't notice an issue with the lyrics until you brought them up.