My wife is the scapegoat in her family. She's an amazing mother, wife, and small business owner. People love being around her, and her Narc Father could not stand it, and he tried everything he possibly could to smash her down, both emotionally and financially. She went no contact a few years ago. I'm sure that drives her dad absolutely insane. Oh well.
@streaming5332 Scapegoats sometimes get to 'scape. 😂 She absolutely is the scapegoat if the whole story surrounding her from her father and/or extended family is that she's somehow the cause of all their problems and unhappiness in life, so she gets nothing but crap from them. She's just become stronger than them for it in the end, and good for her, because it isn't easy even if she is doing well in life. She's just got good support in place and a head that tells her she's worth more than she's been given by some key people in her family. ❤ You don't become the target of narcissists because you have no redeeming qualities, but often because you totally do. They want to rob you of that, maybe because you are what they can't seem to be in life.
Of course we are stronger! My narcissistic mother is sitting at home billowing in her own hatred of the world, self-pity, victimisation, whilst I as the scapegoat, am living my authentic life away from her. She has taught me what not to be as a person and mother.
Yes , the what not to be people keep turning up on the journey away from the family and Thank God for them and I was lucky enough to live beside some aging Narcs and realise what becomes of them and get away before they weighed me down as a prop.
It needs to be said in my opinion that these unquestionable strengths also run the risk of attracting people as unhealthy as the narcissistic parents, at least until the scapegoat survivor learns to boost their biggest weakness - their ability to set and enforce proper boundaries. Until you learn to be strong for yourself, and not to try and compensate for someone else's weaknesses, please be careful with the kind of people that get close to you.
@@darkcreatureinadarkroom1617 exactly - it's a fine line. I didn't know I was attracting them. Now I see that I was & can stop them from getting close to me.
I agree. I have been thru it. Attracted and kept scapegoate gaslighting abusers around since expected to be disrespected. Dismissed and treated badly. Not knowing boundaries.
18:50 "being able to abuse their child without the concern of the impact on their child", that's really scary that there are such parents without empathy..... or guts, or both, or so broken. Please... if you don't have empathy, don't have kids
I have heard from other narcissism specialists that most often the narcissistic "mother" only chooses to have children in order to create her "living dolls" so she can create an artificial hierarchy placing herself at the top as the Queen. She selects a passive husband as her supportive enabler (who she rewards for doing so and punishes for not doing so) who is most often the scapegoat from his own family of origin. Its disgusting to imagine, and sets me on fire with frustration and anger. My "mother" will never see me again and I wont be attending her funeral, when that time comes. She is already dead to me. She systematically tried to destroy me, even far into adulthood.
@@HeartFeltGesture you said it perfectly. They set themselves up, they choose an enabler and the abuse continues... until their own deeds catch up with them, and age gives them that extra devaluation, just enough for the poor victims to escape
My mother told me when I was a teenager that she "knew" I would "be okay" because I "had friends." My relationships outside the family somehow justified her neglect of me, and her focus on my older sibling. Mom's twisted perspective also explains why she expected me to caretake her and everyone else in the family. I was not nurtured to develop a self unless it corresponded to how they defined me. Narcissistic people make such damaging parents. They cannot relax and let their children be themselves. They are compelled to create false realities. My siblings were elevated over me in my family, and they still live in that false reality that my mother and father created for them. It was so lonely for me to try to exist in that family. Since I turned my back on them, I have begun to live for the first time.
@rubberbiscuit99 I’m so glad that you’re writing this because it’s exactly what I have experienced, too. My mother actually said “Awww, well M. is a very good friend! It’s good that you can go to her when you’re depressed.” That was when I was actually comparing my friend’s kindness to her criticism and downplaying of the depression I was in and that her behaviour had created when I was a teen. I was flabbergasted 🤯. I had come home to get a hug. No. Didn’t happen, has never happened.
@@muma6559That was the strangest thing for me too. How total strangers would show me more compassion and understanding than my own parents. I didn’t know them and they seemed more like how my idea of a real family would operate. It’s sad but also beauitful and I’m grateful to every one of them I never met in person but whom reassured or supported me In some way that really helped when nothing else did.
To all the narcissistic abuse scapegoat survivors out there, know that you are strong, worthy and deserving! Everything that your Narcissistic parents said to you doesn’t matter, know your strengths and be proud of yourself and love yourself! Surround yourself with safe people, whom you can trust. You are a wonderful, loving, smart and amazing person, everyone loves you!!
Thank you. We love you too and appreciate your encouragement. Survivors jive so well with one another because it takes one to know one, and also be grateful for those connections. 💕 you’re a gem ✨
@@traviscorder9100 The first time I said it, was in relation to my toxic family being forced to raise me, their own nemesis. lol And thought....someone needs to put that on a Tshirt, it will sell! 🤣
Thank you Jay! "Knowing the truth scratches a fundamental itch for the scapegoat survivor." The truth will set you free, even if it hurts and p*sses you off first.
Yes, all truth sets you free!! I’ve had to come to realizations about all my siblings. It was so very painful,but it opened a window to the personality of each one, as well as how they still viewed me. I, thanks to RUclips videos from various folks, have come to understand that I was…and still am the family scapegoat. Healing, growing, beginning to soar and they don’t like it. Oh well too bad for them. GOOD FOR ME 🥰😊.
Jay Reid is a great therapist. Only a healed former scapegoat is capable of fully understanding and truly helping make sense of this insidious form of psychological child abuse.
Once as an adult, I told my mother that the cruel things she said to me were hurting my feelings. She said, "I didn't think you ever got your feelings hurt." She came perilously close to saying, "I didn't think you had feelings." She justified her abusive behavior by saying to herself, "Oh, my victim doesn't really have any feelings like I do. She's sort of an inanimate object."
Mine basically admitted the same thing. That’s crazy. They teach us to hide our feelings so they can pretend we don’t have any. I wasn’t allowed to show any anger or disappointment on my face or I got in trouble. Wasn’t allowed to cry or I was given a reason to cry. Wasn’t allowed to be sad or I was entitled. Now the narrative is that I had no feelings. Insanity.
FS _everything_ is an object to them & everything is transactional. they can't deal with the world any other way because they can't handle (positive) emotions so they avoid the whole issue by objectify everything. lol sorry if that sounds like mansplanning. I'm explaining it to my inner child, not you. ❤️🩹 ✌️
Thank you. Never understood but it’s hilarious now 😅I used to get accused of being what I had to be to survive her ass. I was told that in so easily defeated. Why do you try to defeat me all the time😂
We have to be mentally much stronger in order to survive the cruelty but our health can suffer greatly as a result of the abuse. It's the enablers who are very weak & willing to be blind to the brutality towards one child in particular as wrong, they join in with the narcissist to save their own skin. Thank you Jay for your generosity in sharing these healing strengthening & encouraging videos its great not to feel so alone anymore💞
I was always the scapegoat in my family dynamic. My mother is a covert narcissist and used me as her supply and would constantly degrade me and critisize me for every mistake. When I was younger I believed I was a burden and unlovable. For years and years I never spoke out about the abuse. I thought her actions were my fault and continued to walk on eggshells around her. She made twisted narratives about me to friends and family yet they thankfully had enough empathy to still care about me. But I knew she'd say things like "my daughter is so lazy and refuses my help" yet she was never emotionally supportive and only helped me to make her look better. The "good parent" mask. I'm 20 now and spent the last 2 years growing my emotional intelligence and realized I wasn't a burden at all and regained my self-worth completely. When I identified her behavior and started dodging the manipulation and showed no emotion to her critizism she started stonewalling me, held grudges against me and told others that the problem in our relationship was my fault and that I was "hostile." Just unbelievable. She hated that I saw through her and chose to no longer be her supply.
You have done superbly well to recognise what was happening and do something about it. Wish I’d understood a lot earlier than I actually did. You’ll lead a much better life now because of it.
So relatable! I no contact. She used me as her physical and emotional punching bag and narc supplies since my day one on earth. I no contact for years. No one has any rights to use me like that. She has to fine her punching bag and narc supplies elsewhere. I don't care. I'm in therapy. I care to heal my inner self.
Oh yes, I realised this a while ago after decades of being labelled and stonewalled and cold shouldered the MOMENT I tried to communicate. Unlike my Dad, I'm strong enough to stand up for what's right. Unlike my mother I'm strong enough to live in the real world even if things aren't great.
@@RootBound505 this 💯💯💯💯💯💯 I couldn't agree more with this statement. Sums up absolutely everything. It's ✨their world✨ 🌍💁🏻♀️💞 I call it sometimes that I was 1984'd my entire life. Or that I've experienced North Korea in family packaging. Crazy what one is thrown into in this world.
Today I’ve decide to cut off myself from last member of my family, so called mother. Even my therapist thinking I was been harsh so I decide to record every conversation with her for a month. After listening my therapist words are she has no empathy! It was relief that I felt because I was right, even when I’m 6 years old I was right, now I’m 40.
@@seachange2512 what I’ve learned, you always have to keep your records to counter gaslighting. If not you will always hear that you are wrong bla bla or you are out of your mind, lunatic, etc.
I believe many/most therapists have yet to delve into their own family of origin issues; that’s why they don’t do a family history on the first visit. If any of the half dozen I’ve seen had it would be IMMEDIATELY FVKKING APPARENT what the core issues are. You had to PROVE to your therapist that you were abused. Isn’t that obvious based on the issues you are struggling with?!?
@@tiendang7531 5 month update for you. Established a new family connection line with my uncle for large family events, after explaining my point of view. Blocked all the flying monkeys immediately with the help of my uncle. Changed a job for higher position and salary with a new company. For last 3 months didn’t think any of the stuff that happened in the past. Moved on and growing (healing) is in progress. Feeling calm and collected for last 3 month.
Initially I was disturbed at the beginning when it was said the 'scapegoat child' is healthier. Later you prefaced that with 'psychologically'. I'm glad, because I've been sick my whole life due to the abuse as a scapegoat child and now I have MS. My narc mom still takes every opportunity to 'devalue and discard me' as now I'm 'weak' in her eyes, but I think she knows she's a bully. I feel sorry for her.
You are right to feel sorry for her. Know this: your unique and outstanding character qualities were and are unbearable for her, that's probably why she picked you to be the scapegoat.
Bless your heart❤ you will always be stronger no matter what and she knows it. You will always be a threat to the feeble minded and ignorant. Sending you love sister❤
I think our mom made my older Sis sick on purpose, so she would become a nurse. Those were two constants in my life, Sis being sick and Sis having sacred nurse dolls, and toys, and costumes, that I wasn't supposed to touch or play with.
My sister with MS is a dead weight on the family. She drains everyone of their money and you cannot reason with her.(lesions on the brain). She's a nightmare.
I feel sad right now remembering that little girl (me!) spending most of her time racking her brain as to how she could please her mother. How she could avoid being hurt and sold by her mother. Instead of spending that time finding who she was. I'm glad I can freely search now.
You are and were precious and deserving of love and should have been demonstrably cherished. I hope you have peace, feel encouraged and know there are people out here who can see how much strength and value you embody. Keep your eyes on the light and reflect it to those who get to have relationship with you. 💕
That movie clip was a great illustration of what the parent does when they want the best for their child. My mother saw this strength in me and wanted to extinguish it.
Thanks a lot. I feel like crying over my harsh childhood and adolescent. This feeling is not belittling me now. After two years of therapy I am still learning how to be the best friend for myself.
@@KatrinAndHerWoolf The negative voices are always your parents voices, always recognize them. They will lose power over time. Behind that voice is your authentic voice, be open to hear it. It is always kind and loving.
I’m a licensed psychotherapist as well as scapegoat survivor who works with mostly scapegoat survivors in my practice. I think this is one of your very best videos yet, Jay! Thank you so much for highlighting in such a direct way of the strength of the skate goat and sometimes we can think they are weaknesses.
It is possible to learn to be one's own best friend as well as to lovingly and tenderly re-parent the dear young abandoned one (you) to be and feel safe and secure. Nightmares have diminished for me over time. May all the resources you could possibly wish for and want to address abandonment and scary nights, come your way. It is never too late to receive what you have always deserved and needed. All the best always.
@@seachange2512 I have been doing my own manual to scape these awkward feelings. This channel, a therapist and creating my tips helped me but it is still tough. I found out that the core wound is about losing my parents, my mother died when I was 19 and my father well is no father at all, he denied and lied and all narcissistic things that scapegoated me. If you have any idea about how to reparent myself I will be thankful. I follow this channel and look for tools but in my own way I try to sooth myself and look forward to scape. I tried with many things before and I ended to the idea that I can only do it by myself. Everything gets so messy when I try to follow other kind of manuals for example, my therapist is really awesome and is specialized in recovery from narcissistic abuse, is from Spain and he gave me a path. But then I got stuck with things that I cannot do, even when I do my best there are things that I cannot solve even with the help of the therapist. But I really want to be free. I used to be "normal" before my mother died and my father scapegoated me. Used to have friends support and a safe place. All is gone. But let's get going. Thanks for your advice. And thanks to Jay Reid. I will keep with the advices
I hope you can get the help and guidance you need. If you can, surround yourself with people who know the real you and appreciate you for who you truly are. Before you go to bed, just remind yourself of your self worth. Remember that you aren't the problem.
Finally someone who is understanding - feels so good! I wished I could have found this understanding in my therapy attempts many years ago (it would have prevented a lot of suffering in the past). But better late than never! There is so much good stuff now out there- and I am grateful to be able to listen to it now ! "The scapegoat child is often the healthiest member of the narcissistic family" - hard to believe and so true ! I always felt driven to the truth - and was often not liked for this, in my family and also from other people. But truth feels so good, and, yes, sets you free ! Thanks !
No, it's not hard to believe. I always knew that I was better and stronger. I used to be GLAD I was an adopted child, because I didn't want to be as stupid and cruel and nasty as my family members. Thank you, Jay. I get so much comfort and validation from your videos.
I was so good at taking on the responsibility of regulating my mother's emotions that when I tried to break away as an adult I was met with harsh backlash from the rest of my family. In my early 20's I moved far away and cut contact with all my blood relatives and and friends of the family. There were tears and deep sadness, but I felt no regret.
I wished that I could have gotten help when I was a lot younger and I did try several times. All of the therapists at that time thought the overt abuse and humiliation was just normal and I had no idea how to describe the covert psycho emotional abuse I had to endure which was the absolute worst. Both of my parents were narcissistic. I believe my mother is a malignant covert. Most people think she's nice.
My mom would lie to my Dad and he just accepted it. She told him I got burnt on a candle that I had lit, and he believed her, instead of the truth, until the day he died.@@JJ_FLA
@@philippagrimoire5968my dad can be very envious, enmeshing and horrifying when raged when faced with truth of their hatred. Lack of empathy and kindness and compassion. Thinks of me as an enemy alot and seek to sabotage my mind in spite for some reason...
This is absolutely brilliant. Every word of it describes my life as the scapegoat. I’s like watching an audio version of a biography of my life growing up with a violent narc father. I always wondered why I had a need for the truth to be revealed, which only grew stronger as I grew older. Thank you.
This was very meaningful to me today - even if I recognize I have abilities, aka strengths, I tend to downplay them - but if I see them in others I highly value them. Your presentation on this topic allows me to take credit I usually don't. Thank you Jay!
I feel like I’m continually trying to figure out how to survive my family on a daily basis. This month was especially tough, idk how much longer I can take…
The pain of not being allowed to live in alignment with the truth. It is a sort of existential pain, for me. I ended up adding a dual major during my bachelor's degree in philosophy because of that thirst for truth. I remember reading Plato and Aristotle and it was SO comforting to have something graspable as foundational truth. Seeing values laid out so clearly in nichomechian ethics was something that i didn't know my soul had been desperately craving. A mirror to check myself with. In my childhood home the expectations were unpredictable and i found myself the wrong or bad one in the majority of situations, regardless of involvement. I was the one separated from the rest of the family and sent to my room, seemingly according to certain "rules" that were supposedly clear but i kept somehow unknowingly and unintentionally offended. No one else seemed to be so worried or concerned about messing up, no other perfectionistic streaks in my siblings, just me. I am the only one that has chronic panic attacks and paralyzing anxiety. But they also buy into my mother's lies. 🤷🏻♀️ It hurts but i cannot control what they believe. I can only represent myself. Thank you for this important discussion! 🙏🏻😊
Fantastic video! I appreciate your approach so much, the examples and how much you truly care about assisting people! I had a few epiphanies while watching this today. Thank you so much. 😀 I loved that you mentioned The Handmaid's Tale because while watching it when it first came out....I was relating to June, her strength and her sadness so much - didn't make sense to me at the time as to why - but now I get it!!!
Thanks Jay. This is one of the most empowering videos of yours to date! I was getting a little despondent at my deep dive into all my so called ‘problems’ that many other sources identify, so it is nice to be reminded of one’s true inner strength and resilience. Much love to you and this community. We’ve got this!! ❤✊
I see myself in almost every example, except a pro pros unrecognised strength I saw their hypocrisy which triggered my parents endlessly. This clarity ended up protecting my sanity while incurring their wrath. Somehow I chose this option as a kid over surrendering to their projections. So their projections became more subtle sowing seeds in my mind and polluting my emotional peace with sabotage and provocations. I always fought them tooth and nail over my perspective and this is what ended up revealing their hatred to me. Sucks to know you were always hated, but it would've been the worst to hate myself. We need and deserve self-compassion, patience, self-care and a calm home to live and recharge in. All the best wishes and thank you very much for these reflections!
Good analysis of the scapegoat child. Often the parents pick the child they perceive as strongest thinking they're able to bear the weight of being the target. But I can tell you even the strongest child can only bear so much. I fought tooth and nail to keep my head above water in a dysfunctional family. Does Brizo sleep all the time!
This is brilliant , validating and mirrors so much of my experience. My only caveat is that the scapegoat is not always calm and can find their own emotions terrifying and overwhelming , especially anger. I was afraid of losing control of going over the edge because of my feelings' intensity. I 've had many years of therapy and acupuncture to help regulate my feelings and centre myself. I am also an artist and writer so process my emotions creatively. My narcissistic mother was controlled by her violent narcissistic rages and was completely unregulated and lacking in introspection . I , her only daughter , was her target. She behaved like a victim and blamed me for all her sufferings ; l was not allowed to question her or express my feelings and grew up afraid of my own reactions. I had to control myself at terrible cost: on the inside I was an inferno. It took getting away from my mother to be able to see this objectively and begin to change the lifetime habit of blaming myself.
You are an amazing gift! This is some deep Houdini sh* we have to work through. I thought I had turned over every stone on this subject in my life, but I see the layers are still there 12 feet deep! I am buying your courses and ready to do the deeper work.
I was the scapegoat. My mom used to come in to my room at night while my dad was gone teaching in the evenings and would wake me up and lecture me.. and then shake me awake and ask me to repeat what she said. I would just cry and ask her to leave me alone because I had school the next day. She would leave as soon as she heard the door open and my dad got home. To this day I have no idea what she would talk to me about. In my early 40's my dad admitted he knew my mom was abusive but did nothing because she was difficult. Turns out, both my parents are narcissistic and I was the one who took the brunt from both...
today all these positive traits including empathy but the one thing that is very important also is boundaries, to keep my true self safe ,and detachment, being direct, speaking my truth, disengaging , advocating for my needs in healthy ways and and choosing available people to share my true self with / connect with share my true and get my needs 4 connection met im worth it in a good way . were worth it :)! With gentleness humor love and respect were worth it . God speed ! Were worth it. with gentleneshumorlove and respect were worth ti
@@Shayne_T I think everybody has a different style of communicationg expressing what they need to do and keeping boundaries, when I say I speak my truth and disengage well I mean it in contexts when some one is trying to provoke me usually with something a projection for instance, and I do this as a way of not stuffing my feelings but expressing what I feel and disengaging . Each person may have a way of dealing with the world basically which is safe , and feels empowering and like it completes what I need to say , and has good boundaries and allows in good people for connection also. Which is key those safe enough people where I can be my true self and get my needs for connection met im worth it in good way were worth it .:) Thanks for letting me share ;)))) God speed !
After watching this I'm now wondering if undermining me may have been the real goal when my mother repeatedly criticized me until I cried about my supposedly bad grades in high school. In retrospect they were actually quite good, and if she actually cared about my success, why did she never offer any constructive advice or encouragement or help me with college applications? College is often the reason parents care about grades. I ended up applying to ONE random college mainly because it accepted applications after all the deadlines I'd missed, and I genuinely thought I was Stupid for years despite good grades and SAT scores. Meanwhile, my mother's literal job was helping other people's children attend the elite university she went to, and she continues to get lots of specialness supply from having attended and worked at one of the most prestigious universities in the world. Coincidence? So true that abusive parents act without concern for the impacts on their children. Narcs and their fragile egos suck! I'll take the strengths mentioned in this video over sabotaging others to feel better any day! 💪🏋♀😻😃🌱🌿💖
This man knows what he's talking about. Whether you've been through this abuse with family, a romantic partner or an acquaintance-this knowledge and understanding is such an important part of healing and reclaiming your happiness and understanding of the TRUTH, not the lies
This has been one of the most validating videos I have ever watched in my healing journey. I never thought for a minute that I possessed any strength (whatsoever) in my childhood, but this video made my inner child smile... ❤ Thank you so much, Jay.
Hi Jay. 72 yo Grannie from South Australia here. I think we perceive strength wrongly at times. We think of aggression and financial success as strength when actually resilience, empathy and peace making are often requiring more strength to maintain. People pleasing just to keep ourselves in the good books is a weak option but putting the correct understanding on things, that it's not always about us, not reacting inappropriately, keeping things in perspective while n
💯This extended by having friends who kept me with them for over 40 years knowing my family! The friend group was an extension of the parents by guilting me to stay in their abuse by making me believe their tactics were not abusive or I should forgive and forget instantly! It’s a lifetime prison sentence! GOD IS GREAT, bringing me out of the “the smear campaign” that followed me, when I did leave!!🙏❤️🕊🌟🎶 Thank you Dr. Reid! God bless you!
YES. After 20 years I have finally seen the light and cut off my own “ long time friend group as an extension of my abusers.” Thank. Thee. Lord. I can finally be free.
My mother is not necessarily a narcissist, but i was definitely a scapegoat. Even her compliments were insulting "youre charismatic - like your father!", "you dont understand because youre not anxious like me and your brother!" Etc etc. She needed me to be weak and unhealthy and I did internalise that and find another person to similarly abuse me after becoming an adult. It took me decades to recover from the pain of this but im through the worst now. My little brother who was the favourite, the golden child, is a wreck because hes realising now how neglected he was. Mum is overtly not interested in his children and resists having a relationship with them, she only wants my brothers support. Hes so traumatised now 😢
I'm reading a book right now by Karl Ove Knausgaard called My Struggle, book one. It's about his relationship with his father, who was a cruel and overbearing narcissist, although Knausgaard never uses that word. But from the beginning, it's clear that Karl Ove was scapegoated and terrorized by his father. Karl Ove is constantly on the alert about his father's moods. Recommended reading.
Wow, this video was the truth --- what we all long for and as you say, secretly know at some deeper level. My therapist told me that I was the strongest and likable, ect... when i felt the opposite. Reprogramming the mind to believe these things it is not easy. Believing these truths as well as appropriating deploying boundaries are always things I am working on. Thanks for this amazing validating and supportive video.
I've heard the term "crab bucket mentality" used to describe situations where a group of people try to tear down a person (who may or may not also be a scapegoat) . For instance, I've heard recovering alcoholics say that when they tried to get sober, the other alcoholics they knew acted resentfully, or even tried to get them to start drinking again. Come to think of it, it applies a lot to toxic families, too.
Yes that exahustion of trying figuuring out how they veiw me (usually erronously and awfully) and then trying to figure out how I can work with it or push back is so daunting. Its degrading some of the things they think I am, and knowing theres not point in trying to get them to perceive me differently or if they even can! It was such a relief knowing that people were in thier own farcicle world and its safer they stay there than to realize anything true. But it sucks that some peoples fake realities are worth more than good people.
I've recently been having nice dreams about my abusive mum, is this what healing can look like?? I'm 55, she passed away 5 years ago and I went no contact with her 10 years before that. I also have removed all other abuse from my life. In my dreams she is doing nice things for me. My dreams have surprised me so much. I also felt unfelt grief for her!!! Would love to know if anyone else has had these experiences?
Very interesting.. I would love to know what this means. Maybe you are healing and this is your subconscious allowing you to experience your mother as a loving and caring mother.. you thinking this makes sense. I have nightmares about my mother and father, but not as often as they used to occur.
@@Shayne_T I too have had nightmares for many years, but now this change. A sign of hope for us all I think. Moving beyond the limits of the abuse into freedom
Wow this is so spot on it’s freaky 😮. Being in this role had such a catastrophic impact on my life. I’m slowly getting better but it’s taken years to get to this position. I always appreciate your channel Jay and recommend it to others.
4 Reasons the Scapegoat Child Is Stronger Than Their Narcissistic Parent: 1. Flexibility 2. Emotional Maturity 3. Driven towards the Truth 4. Empathy I must remember my strengths while recovering from the scapegoat role made by my narcissistic mother.
I hadn't considered the buffering role we play for them as an empathy-dependent skill but you just made it so clear I don't think I'll be able to unsee it again. There were times it was as if I was their liaison to the less important people (reality) or something. So remembering that and realizing of course they didn't really need an interpreter but feigning confusion and intolerance and superiority in that way was how they groomed me really pisses me off. I hadn't thought of it as anything more complicated than a pitiable inability to resist showing off to a grade-schooler. Ugh Actually though then again before my halfbrother was born and I became my dad's scapegoat too he was still humiliating socially, but in different ways. Like the first thing he asked one of my friends from summer camp when I was stupid enough to think letting me invite a friend somewhere could possibly be for my enjoyment was "Hi Chris,, and what does your daddy do?"🤮 The only work he ever did was manipulating other people into bad deals including the business he ruined for me when I hadn't asked for or needed his "help". So no wonder he was insecure all the way back then--facepalm. Thanks for this.
Thank you for educating other therapists on these issues. There is definitely a shortage of folks who grasps these concepts without patients having to educate them.
I didn't realize I was the scapegoat until I saw my teen son dealing with a narc ex gf. She trashed him to her friends (his former friends) and is nice to him when her friends aren't around. The situation got me so enraged for him. I know him and he's a very kind wonderful person. He was wanting to write apology letters to the friends when he hadn't done anything wrong. This video is helpful. Thank you.
A counsellor told me, 'You have more strength than you think? I didn't quite understand or accept her comment. Now I know. I survived sexual abusive & narcissistic parents. Thank you
Oh my goodness, that’s my mother. I’m calm everywhere but am called the emotionally instable and cruel one at home. I have been so confused but recently I read about reactive abuse and realised that I’m still falling for my mother’s baiting. How stupid/blind could I be? She is so mean, but has the demeanour and the face of an angel. She uses my weakest points: the fact that I have been dealing with depression (due to her) since my adolescence and my father’s illness and dependence on her kindness. Wilful neglect, victim playing, gaslighting and triangulation/defamation disguised as “worry” are her revenge if you don’t do her bidding. She is controlling, coercive and cruel and she is persistent and behind your back - and no one outside can see this side of her because she can act the caring, deeply worried, overwhelmed mother and wife.
@@soniahathaway1 🤗Yes, we are strong. But I keep waking up (now after no contact two weeks ago) with that inner voice of my siblings and father who tells me that I must be crazy and that ours is a caring family and that I’m getting it all wrong, because I’m weird and possibly really not really sane. And it’s so difficult to stick to my perception because THEY are like a unity and a complete wall. They all treat the depression - kindly! - as if it was my fault and a burden to them all… but that they still love me…but that my parents are suffering because of my outbursts (when they tell me sweetly that I’m probably not really sane because of my being “too sensitive” or just getting the worry of our poor mother wrong). Their “kind” stabbing leaves me doubting and confused and ruminating and in a constant state of exhaustion because I don’t want to judge wrongly of course. I think I really need trauma therapy because I notice that when I’m ruminating and I do take time to remember the hurtful moments I get scared of going back into the darkest depression, and I’m so glad that I overcame that darkest point - by getting informed (!) But then again I find myself doubting whether I’m not only exaggerating. I need help to get validatiom because I get the gaslighting and then fall directly back into doubts, especially when I remember moments where I got really angry with my mother and my father who didn’t even listen but were and are like a wall. For them, I’m the one who gets it all wrong and there’s not a tiny admission from their side. It’s bad.
You resemble my stepfather, but obviously your eyes are kinder and warmer & actually have love and life in them; it’s like exposure therapy for me prepping having to see him soon
The last ex narc I was married to told me one day that I was “strong.” I later realized that it wasn’t a compliment, it was that he couldn’t completely break me down and get total control over me. 🤷🏾♀️
Thank you Jay; your affirmation of this prevasive seeking for truth has been a pillar upholding my purpose and persistence as a scapegoat survivor. I am now 70 yrs plus and so relieved to discover that a narcissist mother and my role as scapegoat in family of origin is setting me free. Questions and missing links are falling into place, and bringing new peace, hope and healing. I value you and your work.
Thinking of the 3 pillars of recovery…. Gaining distance from the Narcissistic abuser. I’ve been NC with my family for many years. Unfortunately broke it just over 2 years ago when my abusive ex husband walked out. My Narc mother had a rage at me for going NC, then took my then 16 year old daughter and myself back into the family while strategically keeping me away from my GC sister & other family members. She then kicked me out, kept my daughter in there, and replaced me in the family with my abusive ex husband. It’s disgustingly sick. I want to stay out of it and get on with my life but my daughter is in my family now. She’s very unwell with BPD and has recently cut me off again although hasn’t done it for ages. She’s almost 19. She’s had her own issues with them. What do I do to move on from the chaos and drama when my only daughter is in the middle of it. And now turned on me as well. This is all just too much.
I had to go against to my sister who I grew up with…after a mother (she died few years ago) was dark triad… now found out my sister is (possible more) dark triad. I went no contact after she gave me the silence treat..while she had to divide the will. ….she put her 13 year old son against me in that time, to put me in a bad daylight he’s now 18). And sees me as a bad person that did very bad things (all lies by the way).
My mother hasn’t spoke to me in 2 years, my siblings stopped talking to me and my son 3 years ago because they believe what my narcissist mother tells them. She acts one way with them and one way with me. I could never win. Now they want me back into the fold because my mother is embarrassed about this to her own siblings. I’m much happy now that I’ve detached. So is my son. We are off the hamster wheel.
I took off my rose tinted glasses about 2 years ago after ending my toxic relationship with my narcissist father. YOU sir have completely explained me in this video as the scapegoat trying to survive. I'm desperate for information and yes, answers. Thank you SO much for this video, and yes, you are completely accurate. Xxxooo Janique (Canada)
While I agree with the general premise of the video, I also think being considered stronger than the narc parent can lead to the enablers lnsisting you/they need to join in to protect the "fragile" narc-even if it means protecting her from you.ln addition, even the strongest break...when they do, the others look the other way or make you into the "designated patient"/crazy person.
I just realized that my husband and I are both scapegoat children. No wonder we’re so good together. So that saying something like “this’ll build your character”, is a truth?
My wife is the scapegoat in her family. She's an amazing mother, wife, and small business owner. People love being around her, and her Narc Father could not stand it, and he tried everything he possibly could to smash her down, both emotionally and financially. She went no contact a few years ago. I'm sure that drives her dad absolutely insane. Oh well.
Kudos to you as well. We really blossom when we have supportive partners.
She's not a scapegoat if she's achieved all that. Scapegoats are disabled by their abusers.
@streaming5332 Scapegoats sometimes get to 'scape. 😂
She absolutely is the scapegoat if the whole story surrounding her from her father and/or extended family is that she's somehow the cause of all their problems and unhappiness in life, so she gets nothing but crap from them. She's just become stronger than them for it in the end, and good for her, because it isn't easy even if she is doing well in life. She's just got good support in place and a head that tells her she's worth more than she's been given by some key people in her family. ❤
You don't become the target of narcissists because you have no redeeming qualities, but often because you totally do. They want to rob you of that, maybe because you are what they can't seem to be in life.
She was lucky (relatively!) to have found a husband who gets it.
@@streaming5332 not all
Of course we are stronger! My narcissistic mother is sitting at home billowing in her own hatred of the world, self-pity, victimisation, whilst I as the scapegoat, am living my authentic life away from her. She has taught me what not to be as a person and mother.
Yasssssss
mine must be sitting right next to her lol sad people trapped by their lies
It’s actually quite sad.
Yes , the what not to be people keep turning up on the journey away from the family and Thank God for them and I was lucky enough to live beside some aging Narcs and realise what becomes of them and get away before they weighed me down as a prop.
Same with my evil mother and me.
It needs to be said in my opinion that these unquestionable strengths also run the risk of attracting people as unhealthy as the narcissistic parents, at least until the scapegoat survivor learns to boost their biggest weakness - their ability to set and enforce proper boundaries. Until you learn to be strong for yourself, and not to try and compensate for someone else's weaknesses, please be careful with the kind of people that get close to you.
Very well said! An often overlooked topic!!!!
@@darkcreatureinadarkroom1617 exactly - it's a fine line. I didn't know I was attracting them. Now I see that I was & can stop them from getting close to me.
I agree. I have been thru it. Attracted and kept scapegoate gaslighting abusers around since expected to be disrespected. Dismissed and treated badly. Not knowing boundaries.
Gosh you’ve said it all.
@@darkcreatureinadarkroom1617 superbly said my friend ❣️
Anyone who uses a child to inflate their own ego is not a sign of strength. Dealing with psychological warfare as a child takes some guts
🙏🏽🙏🏽🙏🏽
Very well said
Deadset it’s cowardice
damn straight
18:50 "being able to abuse their child without the concern of the impact on their child", that's really scary that there are such parents without empathy..... or guts, or both, or so broken. Please... if you don't have empathy, don't have kids
If you have empathy, you wouldn't have kids to begin with.
@@athena3865 yeah, i tend to agree. Not the world and not the time for kids
I have heard from other narcissism specialists that most often the narcissistic "mother" only chooses to have children in order to create her "living dolls" so she can create an artificial hierarchy placing herself at the top as the Queen. She selects a passive husband as her supportive enabler (who she rewards for doing so and punishes for not doing so) who is most often the scapegoat from his own family of origin. Its disgusting to imagine, and sets me on fire with frustration and anger.
My "mother" will never see me again and I wont be attending her funeral, when that time comes. She is already dead to me. She systematically tried to destroy me, even far into adulthood.
@@HeartFeltGesture you said it perfectly. They set themselves up, they choose an enabler and the abuse continues... until their own deeds catch up with them, and age gives them that extra devaluation, just enough for the poor victims to escape
My mother told me when I was a teenager that she "knew" I would "be okay" because I "had friends." My relationships outside the family somehow justified her neglect of me, and her focus on my older sibling. Mom's twisted perspective also explains why she expected me to caretake her and everyone else in the family. I was not nurtured to develop a self unless it corresponded to how they defined me. Narcissistic people make such damaging parents. They cannot relax and let their children be themselves. They are compelled to create false realities. My siblings were elevated over me in my family, and they still live in that false reality that my mother and father created for them. It was so lonely for me to try to exist in that family. Since I turned my back on them, I have begun to live for the first time.
@rubberbiscuit99 I’m so glad that you’re writing this because it’s exactly what I have experienced, too. My mother actually said “Awww, well M. is a very good friend! It’s good that you can go to her when you’re depressed.” That was when I was actually comparing my friend’s kindness to her criticism and downplaying of the depression I was in and that her behaviour had created when I was a teen. I was flabbergasted 🤯. I had come home to get a hug. No. Didn’t happen, has never happened.
@@chrisg7795 Right. And it will not happen. What a cold thing for her to say to you. I'm sorry you have that for a parent.
@@muma6559 Same. When I was young, I assumed something was wrong with the people who saw something of value in me. I was very brainwashed.
Thank you, this video has helped add another piece to the puzzle
@@muma6559That was the strangest thing for me too. How total strangers would show me more compassion and understanding than my own parents. I didn’t know them and they seemed more like how my idea of a real family would operate. It’s sad but also beauitful and I’m grateful to every one of them I never met in person but whom reassured or supported me
In some way that really helped when nothing else did.
To all the narcissistic abuse scapegoat survivors out there, know that you are strong, worthy and deserving!
Everything that your Narcissistic parents said to you doesn’t matter, know your strengths and be proud of yourself and love yourself!
Surround yourself with safe people, whom you can trust.
You are a wonderful, loving, smart and amazing person, everyone loves you!!
Thank you. We love you too and appreciate your encouragement. Survivors jive so well with one another because it takes one to know one, and also be grateful for those connections. 💕 you’re a gem ✨
"They created their own nemesis , and here I am"
Such a fantastic comment. I'm going to use it as my mantra.
@@traviscorder9100 The first time I said it, was in relation to my toxic family being forced to raise me, their own nemesis. lol And thought....someone needs to put that on a Tshirt, it will sell! 🤣
Best ever thing I have ever read in my life.
love
Spiritual warrior. That’s what we are.
Thank you Jay! "Knowing the truth scratches a fundamental itch for the scapegoat survivor." The truth will set you free, even if it hurts and p*sses you off first.
oh my god so much this.
Yes, all truth sets you free!! I’ve had to come to realizations about all my siblings. It was so very painful,but it opened a window to the personality of each one, as well as how they still viewed me. I, thanks to RUclips videos from various folks, have come to understand that I was…and still am the family scapegoat. Healing, growing, beginning to soar and they don’t like it. Oh well too bad for them. GOOD FOR ME 🥰😊.
That saying about truth is one of my favorites 👏👏👏
I feel like many of these RUclips therapists have been observing me in secret and following my life to a T.
Perfect timing for this
I can relate to the movie a lot but I can’t relate to the Lawrence story. Lawrence was just stronger than me.
It's crazy how these people all think and act alike without taking a class or something. 😂
yeah, that's hmmmm interesting... lol
Truth!! 😳
Jay Reid is a great therapist. Only a healed former scapegoat is capable of fully understanding and truly helping make sense of this insidious form of psychological child abuse.
Fully agree!!
Once as an adult, I told my mother that the cruel things she said to me were hurting my feelings. She said, "I didn't think you ever got your feelings hurt." She came perilously close to saying, "I didn't think you had feelings." She justified her abusive behavior by saying to herself, "Oh, my victim doesn't really have any feelings like I do. She's sort of an inanimate object."
Mine basically admitted the same thing. That’s crazy. They teach us to hide our feelings so they can pretend we don’t have any. I wasn’t allowed to show any anger or disappointment on my face or I got in trouble. Wasn’t allowed to cry or I was given a reason to cry. Wasn’t allowed to be sad or I was entitled. Now the narrative is that I had no feelings. Insanity.
My mother's name for me was "Black Hearted Bitch", obviously illustrating the belief that I had no feelings. Projection at its finest
FS _everything_ is an object to them & everything is transactional.
they can't deal with the world any other way because they can't handle (positive) emotions so they avoid the whole issue by objectify everything.
lol sorry if that sounds like mansplanning. I'm explaining it to my inner child, not you.
❤️🩹 ✌️
Thank you. Never understood but it’s hilarious now 😅I used to get accused of being what I had to be to survive her ass. I was told that in so easily defeated. Why do you try to defeat me all the time😂
@@john-ic5pz❤
We have to be mentally much stronger in order to survive the cruelty but our health can suffer greatly as a result of the abuse. It's the enablers who are very weak & willing to be blind to the brutality towards one child in particular as wrong, they join in with the narcissist to save their own skin. Thank you Jay for your generosity in sharing these healing strengthening & encouraging videos its great not to feel so alone anymore💞
My life😢
I was always the scapegoat in my family dynamic. My mother is a covert narcissist and used me as her supply and would constantly degrade me and critisize me for every mistake. When I was younger I believed I was a burden and unlovable. For years and years I never spoke out about the abuse. I thought her actions were my fault and continued to walk on eggshells around her. She made twisted narratives about me to friends and family yet they thankfully had enough empathy to still care about me. But I knew she'd say things like "my daughter is so lazy and refuses my help" yet she was never emotionally supportive and only helped me to make her look better. The "good parent" mask. I'm 20 now and spent the last 2 years growing my emotional intelligence and realized I wasn't a burden at all and regained my self-worth completely. When I identified her behavior and started dodging the manipulation and showed no emotion to her critizism she started stonewalling me, held grudges against me and told others that the problem in our relationship was my fault and that I was "hostile." Just unbelievable. She hated that I saw through her and chose to no longer be her supply.
You have done superbly well to recognise what was happening and do something about it. Wish I’d understood a lot earlier than I actually did. You’ll lead a much better life now because of it.
@@craftycalley yes exactly. I agree I wish i had understood earlier too
You are so young and already realised this. Do not let her get you back into her net - I did that for years for my family. Stay away from her!
I moved to Europe to get away from them.
So relatable! I no contact. She used me as her physical and emotional punching bag and narc supplies since my day one on earth. I no contact for years. No one has any rights to use me like that. She has to fine her punching bag and narc supplies elsewhere. I don't care. I'm in therapy. I care to heal my inner self.
Oh yes, I realised this a while ago after decades of being labelled and stonewalled and cold shouldered the MOMENT I tried to communicate. Unlike my Dad, I'm strong enough to stand up for what's right. Unlike my mother I'm strong enough to live in the real world even if things aren't great.
Visits to family mean leaving thoughts, feelings and opinions at the door and entering Their World.
Beautifully said! And completely agree. Yes, you and we have a strength they simply don't have. 💪💞🙏
@@RootBound505 this 💯💯💯💯💯💯 I couldn't agree more with this statement. Sums up absolutely everything. It's ✨their world✨ 🌍💁🏻♀️💞
I call it sometimes that I was 1984'd my entire life. Or that I've experienced North Korea in family packaging. Crazy what one is thrown into in this world.
Today I’ve decide to cut off myself from last member of my family, so called mother. Even my therapist thinking I was been harsh so I decide to record every conversation with her for a month. After listening my therapist words are she has no empathy! It was relief that I felt because I was right, even when I’m 6 years old I was right, now I’m 40.
I appreciate your creative way via the recordings of validating your truth and your own perceptions.
@@seachange2512 what I’ve learned, you always have to keep your records to counter gaslighting. If not you will always hear that you are wrong bla bla or you are out of your mind, lunatic, etc.
I believe many/most therapists have yet to delve into their own family of origin issues; that’s why they don’t do a family history on the first visit. If any of the half dozen I’ve seen had it would be IMMEDIATELY FVKKING APPARENT what the core issues are. You had to PROVE to your therapist that you were abused. Isn’t that obvious based on the issues you are struggling with?!?
Yay you for finally walking away. Now onto healing & moving on
@@tiendang7531 5 month update for you. Established a new family connection line with my uncle for large family events, after explaining my point of view. Blocked all the flying monkeys immediately with the help of my uncle. Changed a job for higher position and salary with a new company. For last 3 months didn’t think any of the stuff that happened in the past. Moved on and growing (healing) is in progress. Feeling calm and collected for last 3 month.
Initially I was disturbed at the beginning when it was said the 'scapegoat child' is healthier. Later you prefaced that with 'psychologically'. I'm glad, because I've been sick my whole life due to the abuse as a scapegoat child and now I have MS. My narc mom still takes every opportunity to 'devalue and discard me' as now I'm 'weak' in her eyes, but I think she knows she's a bully.
I feel sorry for her.
You are right to feel sorry for her. Know this: your unique and outstanding character qualities were and are unbearable for her, that's probably why she picked you to be the scapegoat.
Bless your heart❤ you will always be stronger no matter what and she knows it. You will always be a threat to the feeble minded and ignorant. Sending you love sister❤
I think our mom made my older Sis sick on purpose, so she would become a nurse. Those were two constants in my life, Sis being sick and Sis having sacred nurse dolls, and toys, and costumes, that I wasn't supposed to touch or play with.
She not only knows it, but she gets off on it.
It makes them feel powerful in their sorry lives.
My sister with MS is a dead weight on the family. She drains everyone of their money and you cannot reason with her.(lesions on the brain). She's a nightmare.
True we would have had these good qualities without the narcissist's abuse. It's why we were "chosen"
I feel sad right now remembering that little girl (me!) spending most of her time racking her brain as to how she could please her mother. How she could avoid being hurt and sold by her mother. Instead of spending that time finding who she was. I'm glad I can freely search now.
You are and were precious and deserving of love and should have been demonstrably cherished. I hope you have peace, feel encouraged and know there are people out here who can see how much strength and value you embody. Keep your eyes on the light and reflect it to those who get to have relationship with you. 💕
@MorganAntoinette thank you so much, Morgan🙏🕊️🌾
That movie clip was a great illustration of what the parent does when they want the best for their child. My mother saw this strength in me and wanted to extinguish it.
same here and she is still at it - even though i went no contact
Thanks a lot. I feel like crying over my harsh childhood and adolescent. This feeling is not belittling me now. After two years of therapy I am still learning how to be the best friend for myself.
We chose our lives. You are supposed to lean the lesson you are learning in this life. Nothing is wasted. Stay blessed. ❤❤❤
@@professorchaos9 Thank you. I am again on a therapy, so your wish of blessing is even more helpful.
@@KatrinAndHerWoolf The negative voices are always your parents voices, always recognize them. They will lose power over time. Behind that voice is your authentic voice, be open to hear it. It is always kind and loving.
Voices, pain and emptiness sometimes are too loud, but I am finding heartful people now. All the best to you.
One cannot reason with someone who is devoid of insight and or empathy, best to simply view such individuals as an appliance, certainly not a human
I’m a licensed psychotherapist as well as scapegoat survivor who works with mostly scapegoat survivors in my practice. I think this is one of your very best videos yet, Jay! Thank you so much for highlighting in such a direct way of the strength of the skate goat and sometimes we can think they are weaknesses.
I wish I didn't have to feel so abandoned everyday. A lot of nightmares and scares. I have been like these for so long.
It is possible to learn to be one's own best friend as well as to lovingly and tenderly re-parent the dear young abandoned one (you) to be and feel safe and secure. Nightmares have diminished for me over time. May all the resources you could possibly wish for and want to address abandonment and scary nights, come your way. It is never too late to receive what you have always deserved and needed. All the best always.
@@seachange2512 I think I truly believe the I'm begining that path. Thanks for that advice
@@seachange2512 I have been doing my own manual to scape these awkward feelings. This channel, a therapist and creating my tips helped me but it is still tough. I found out that the core wound is about losing my parents, my mother died when I was 19 and my father well is no father at all, he denied and lied and all narcissistic things that scapegoated me. If you have any idea about how to reparent myself I will be thankful. I follow this channel and look for tools but in my own way I try to sooth myself and look forward to scape. I tried with many things before and I ended to the idea that I can only do it by myself. Everything gets so messy when I try to follow other kind of manuals for example, my therapist is really awesome and is specialized in recovery from narcissistic abuse, is from Spain and he gave me a path. But then I got stuck with things that I cannot do, even when I do my best there are things that I cannot solve even with the help of the therapist. But I really want to be free. I used to be "normal" before my mother died and my father scapegoated me. Used to have friends support and a safe place. All is gone. But let's get going. Thanks for your advice. And thanks to Jay Reid. I will keep with the advices
I hope you can get the help and guidance you need. If you can, surround yourself with people who know the real you and appreciate you for who you truly are. Before you go to bed, just remind yourself of your self worth. Remember that you aren't the problem.
I was abondonned by mom for the first 12 years
Finally someone who is understanding - feels so good! I wished I could have found this understanding in my therapy attempts many years ago (it would have prevented a lot of suffering in the past). But better late than never! There is so much good stuff now out there- and I am grateful to be able to listen to it now ! "The scapegoat child is often the healthiest member of the narcissistic family" - hard to believe and so true ! I always felt driven to the truth - and was often not liked for this, in my family and also from other people. But truth feels so good, and, yes, sets you free ! Thanks !
No, it's not hard to believe. I always knew that I was better and stronger. I used to be GLAD I was an adopted child, because I didn't want to be as stupid and cruel and nasty as my family members. Thank you, Jay. I get so much comfort and validation from your videos.
Ditto from another adoptee. Sounds like you met my family 🙁. Best wishes
Empathy is good. Unrestricted empathy (being an empath) is a disease, that makes a person an easy target for exploitation.
I was so good at taking on the responsibility of regulating my mother's emotions that when I tried to break away as an adult I was met with harsh backlash from the rest of my family. In my early 20's I moved far away and cut contact with all my blood relatives and and friends of the family. There were tears and deep sadness, but I felt no regret.
I wished that I could have gotten help when I was a lot younger and I did try several times. All of the therapists at that time thought the overt abuse and humiliation was just normal and I had no idea how to describe the covert psycho emotional abuse I had to endure which was the absolute worst. Both of my parents were narcissistic. I believe my mother is a malignant covert. Most people think she's nice.
stronger (and smarter) "in how she found a way to survive the abuse" (without hurting anyone in the process)
It seems we’re the only ones who have the capacity to break the cycle. The ones who got beat on.
@@SuperDflower It seems so. We rely on super-human power from above to support us. Often it's not against a parent but an older sibling or two
16:48 I did this, she “didn’t remember” any of it
my mom & dad are both like this
My mother has made up other history and says I have "false memories".
My mom would lie to my Dad and he just accepted it. She told him I got burnt on a candle that I had lit, and he believed her, instead of the truth, until the day he died.@@JJ_FLA
My mom never b remembered
Same! She said "I'm making it up" and "what's wrong with me" so damaging and I believed she is a "good" mother LOL it's worse than I thought
Always feel alone and distant and disconnected from everybody and I never get to actually feel Joy around anybody on planet Earth yet
I’m sorry. I hope you are able to connect to the right people and feel that joy when you’re healed more perhaps?
philippagrimoire5 trying...
My dad is always determined to destroy my joy and disturb me with unpredictable psychopathic behaviours.
@@philippagrimoire5968my dad can be very envious, enmeshing and horrifying when raged when faced with truth of their hatred.
Lack of empathy and kindness and compassion.
Thinks of me as an enemy alot and seek to sabotage my mind in spite for some reason...
This is absolutely brilliant. Every word of it describes my life as the scapegoat. I’s like watching an audio version of a biography of my life growing up with a violent narc father. I always wondered why I had a need for the truth to be revealed, which only grew stronger as I grew older. Thank you.
.the innate strength of the scapegoat child terrifies the narcissistic parent.
This was very meaningful to me today - even if I recognize I have abilities, aka strengths, I tend to downplay them - but if I see them in others I highly value them. Your presentation on this topic allows me to take credit I usually don't. Thank you Jay!
One must be of great luck to come across a therapist like yourself ❤
I feel like I’m continually trying to figure out how to survive my family on a daily basis. This month was especially tough, idk how much longer I can take…
I’m in the very same place as you 💔
same :(( i dont know how long ill last
It’s so frustrating and devastating but we deserve a better life. We need to do everything we possibly can to give that to ourselves.
Thank you so much for all that you do for this far too prevelant phenomenon. ❤
The pain of not being allowed to live in alignment with the truth. It is a sort of existential pain, for me. I ended up adding a dual major during my bachelor's degree in philosophy because of that thirst for truth. I remember reading Plato and Aristotle and it was SO comforting to have something graspable as foundational truth. Seeing values laid out so clearly in nichomechian ethics was something that i didn't know my soul had been desperately craving. A mirror to check myself with.
In my childhood home the expectations were unpredictable and i found myself the wrong or bad one in the majority of situations, regardless of involvement. I was the one separated from the rest of the family and sent to my room, seemingly according to certain "rules" that were supposedly clear but i kept somehow unknowingly and unintentionally offended. No one else seemed to be so worried or concerned about messing up, no other perfectionistic streaks in my siblings, just me. I am the only one that has chronic panic attacks and paralyzing anxiety. But they also buy into my mother's lies. 🤷🏻♀️ It hurts but i cannot control what they believe. I can only represent myself.
Thank you for this important discussion! 🙏🏻😊
Be prepared to say it is nothing to you- ⌛️
Fantastic video! I appreciate your approach so much, the examples and how much you truly care about assisting people! I had a few epiphanies while watching this today. Thank you so much. 😀 I loved that you mentioned The Handmaid's Tale because while watching it when it first came out....I was relating to June, her strength and her sadness so much - didn't make sense to me at the time as to why - but now I get it!!!
Thanks Jay. This is one of the most empowering videos of yours to date! I was getting a little despondent at my deep dive into all my so called ‘problems’ that many other sources identify, so it is nice to be reminded of one’s true inner strength and resilience.
Much love to you and this community. We’ve got this!! ❤✊
I see myself in almost every example, except a pro pros unrecognised strength I saw their hypocrisy which triggered my parents endlessly. This clarity ended up protecting my sanity while incurring their wrath. Somehow I chose this option as a kid over surrendering to their projections. So their projections became more subtle sowing seeds in my mind and polluting my emotional peace with sabotage and provocations. I always fought them tooth and nail over my perspective and this is what ended up revealing their hatred to me. Sucks to know you were always hated, but it would've been the worst to hate myself. We need and deserve self-compassion, patience, self-care and a calm home to live and recharge in.
All the best wishes and thank you very much for these reflections!
I appreciate the respect you reserved for yourself to not 'surrender' the projections.
Good analysis of the scapegoat child. Often the parents pick the child they perceive as strongest thinking they're able to bear the weight of being the target. But I can tell you even the strongest child can only bear so much. I fought tooth and nail to keep my head above water in a dysfunctional family. Does Brizo sleep all the time!
They probably choose the strongest child to break them down.. they enjoy, as if it’s a game or something.
It’s evil; but they also choose the more vulnerable or youngest sibling too.
Your videos are giving me strength thank you ❤
I love this video. You deserve a medal.
This is brilliant , validating and mirrors so much of my experience. My only caveat is that the scapegoat is not always calm and can find their
own emotions terrifying and overwhelming , especially anger. I was afraid of losing control of going over the edge because of my feelings' intensity. I 've had many years of therapy and acupuncture to help regulate my feelings and centre myself. I am also an artist and writer so process my emotions creatively. My narcissistic mother was controlled by her violent narcissistic rages and was completely unregulated and lacking in introspection . I , her only daughter , was her target. She behaved like a victim and blamed me for all her sufferings ; l was not allowed to question her or express my feelings and grew up afraid of my own reactions. I had to control myself at terrible cost: on the inside I was an inferno. It took getting away from my mother to be able to see this objectively and begin to change the lifetime habit of blaming myself.
Damn straight.
You are an amazing gift! This is some deep Houdini sh* we have to work through. I thought I had turned over every stone on this subject in my life, but I see the layers are still there 12 feet deep! I am buying your courses and ready to do the deeper work.
I was the scapegoat. My mom used to come in to my room at night while my dad was gone teaching in the evenings and would wake me up and lecture me.. and then shake me awake and ask me to repeat what she said. I would just cry and ask her to leave me alone because I had school the next day. She would leave as soon as she heard the door open and my dad got home. To this day I have no idea what she would talk to me about. In my early 40's my dad admitted he knew my mom was abusive but did nothing because she was difficult. Turns out, both my parents are narcissistic and I was the one who took the brunt from both...
So so. Sorry you went through that.
today all these positive traits including empathy but the one thing that is very important also is boundaries, to keep my true self safe ,and detachment, being direct, speaking my truth, disengaging , advocating for my needs in healthy ways and and choosing available people to share my true self with / connect with share my true and get my needs 4 connection met im worth it in a good way . were worth it :)! With gentleness humor love and respect were worth it . God speed ! Were worth it. with gentleneshumorlove and respect were worth ti
Just remember, it doesn’t need to just be “your truth,” it’s the actual truth. They hate that.
@@Shayne_T I think everybody has a different style of communicationg expressing what they need to do and keeping boundaries, when I say I speak my truth and disengage well I mean it in contexts when some one is trying to provoke me usually with something a projection for instance, and I do this as a way of not stuffing my feelings but expressing what I feel and disengaging . Each person may have a way of dealing with the world basically which is safe , and feels empowering and like it completes what I need to say , and has good boundaries and allows in good people for connection also. Which is key those safe enough people where I can be my true self and get my needs for connection met im worth it in good way were worth it .:) Thanks for letting me share ;)))) God speed !
After watching this I'm now wondering if undermining me may have been the real goal when my mother repeatedly criticized me until I cried about my supposedly bad grades in high school. In retrospect they were actually quite good, and if she actually cared about my success, why did she never offer any constructive advice or encouragement or help me with college applications? College is often the reason parents care about grades. I ended up applying to ONE random college mainly because it accepted applications after all the deadlines I'd missed, and I genuinely thought I was Stupid for years despite good grades and SAT scores.
Meanwhile, my mother's literal job was helping other people's children attend the elite university she went to, and she continues to get lots of specialness supply from having attended and worked at one of the most prestigious universities in the world.
Coincidence?
So true that abusive parents act without concern for the impacts on their children.
Narcs and their fragile egos suck!
I'll take the strengths mentioned in this video over sabotaging others to feel better any day!
💪🏋♀😻😃🌱🌿💖
This man knows what he's talking about. Whether you've been through this abuse with family, a romantic partner or an acquaintance-this knowledge and understanding is such an important part of healing and reclaiming your happiness and understanding of the TRUTH, not the lies
This has been one of the most validating videos I have ever watched in my healing journey. I never thought for a minute that I possessed any strength (whatsoever) in my childhood, but this video made my inner child smile... ❤ Thank you so much, Jay.
I m also the official doormat/scapegoat child in my family.I v gone no contact,never looked back
Hi Jay.
72 yo Grannie from South Australia here.
I think we perceive strength wrongly at times. We think of aggression and financial success as strength when actually resilience, empathy and peace making are often requiring more strength to maintain. People pleasing just to keep ourselves in the good books is a weak option but putting the correct understanding on things, that it's not always about us, not reacting inappropriately, keeping things in perspective while n
💯This extended by having friends who kept me with them for over 40 years knowing my family!
The friend group was an extension of the parents by guilting me to stay in their abuse by making me believe their tactics were not abusive or I should forgive and forget instantly!
It’s a lifetime prison sentence!
GOD IS GREAT, bringing me out of the “the smear campaign” that followed me, when I did leave!!🙏❤️🕊🌟🎶
Thank you Dr. Reid!
God bless you!
YES. After 20 years I have finally seen the light and cut off my own “ long time friend group as an extension of my abusers.” Thank. Thee. Lord. I can finally be free.
My mother is not necessarily a narcissist, but i was definitely a scapegoat. Even her compliments were insulting "youre charismatic - like your father!", "you dont understand because youre not anxious like me and your brother!" Etc etc. She needed me to be weak and unhealthy and I did internalise that and find another person to similarly abuse me after becoming an adult. It took me decades to recover from the pain of this but im through the worst now. My little brother who was the favourite, the golden child, is a wreck because hes realising now how neglected he was. Mum is overtly not interested in his children and resists having a relationship with them, she only wants my brothers support. Hes so traumatised now 😢
Most, if not nearly all, of the comments here, I can truly RELATE.
I'm reading a book right now by Karl Ove Knausgaard called My Struggle, book one. It's about his relationship with his father, who was a cruel and overbearing narcissist, although Knausgaard never uses that word. But from the beginning, it's clear that Karl Ove was scapegoated and terrorized by his father. Karl Ove is constantly on the alert about his father's moods. Recommended reading.
Rigidity is brittle and weak. Flexibility is strength. The Tyrant has no place when the survivor is their own Ruler.
Family scapegoat here too.. no contact 3.5 years, nearly 4 🎉
I'm proud of you!
Did you move out from your birth country ?
@@omartrachen6794 we all did from us to Aus when I was a child and my gc bro was 1
Congrats I walked away from mine as well a few years ago.
@@omartrachen6794 I did actually. Born in USA but moved to Australia 🇦🇺 😄🙏
Wow, this video was the truth --- what we all long for and as you say, secretly know at some deeper level. My therapist told me that I was the strongest and likable, ect... when i felt the opposite. Reprogramming the mind to believe these things it is not easy. Believing these truths as well as appropriating deploying boundaries are always things I am working on. Thanks for this amazing validating and supportive video.
I've heard the term "crab bucket mentality" used to describe situations where a group of people try to tear down a person (who may or may not also be a scapegoat) . For instance, I've heard recovering alcoholics say that when they tried to get sober, the other alcoholics they knew acted resentfully, or even tried to get them to start drinking again. Come to think of it, it applies a lot to toxic families, too.
Yes that exahustion of trying figuuring out how they veiw me (usually erronously and awfully) and then trying to figure out how I can work with it or push back is so daunting. Its degrading some of the things they think I am, and knowing theres not point in trying to get them to perceive me differently or if they even can! It was such a relief knowing that people were in thier own farcicle world and its safer they stay there than to realize anything true. But it sucks that some peoples fake realities are worth more than good people.
I've recently been having nice dreams about my abusive mum, is this what healing can look like?? I'm 55, she passed away 5 years ago and I went no contact with her 10 years before that. I also have removed all other abuse from my life. In my dreams she is doing nice things for me. My dreams have surprised me so much. I also felt unfelt grief for her!!!
Would love to know if anyone else has had these experiences?
Very interesting.. I would love to know what this means. Maybe you are healing and this is your subconscious allowing you to experience your mother as a loving and caring mother.. you thinking this makes sense. I have nightmares about my mother and father, but not as often as they used to occur.
@@Shayne_T I too have had nightmares for many years, but now this change. A sign of hope for us all I think. Moving beyond the limits of the abuse into freedom
@@Shayne_T maybe its because I have been praying for healing for the last year
Me too, im the scapegoat of a narc mom, and also dreaming with her, odd dreams
Wow this is so spot on it’s freaky 😮. Being in this role had such a catastrophic impact on my life. I’m slowly getting better but it’s taken years to get to this position. I always appreciate your channel Jay and recommend it to others.
Well done Jay. You knocked this one out of the park. 🙏
"There is a glaring incapacity to care about the inner worlds of those others" - incredible.
4 Reasons the Scapegoat Child Is Stronger Than Their Narcissistic Parent:
1. Flexibility
2. Emotional Maturity
3. Driven towards the Truth
4. Empathy
I must remember my strengths while recovering from the scapegoat role made by my narcissistic mother.
My mother is borderline-the flip side of narcissism. My childhood was like the first 20 minutes of Saving Private Ryan. Videos like this really help.
This is so good! The pennies from heaven are dropping … such a gift .. thanks so much!
Thank You
Perfect timing ✝️👣
I have no words as I sit here crying but to say, Thank You, Jay ❤❤❤❤.
I hadn't considered the buffering role we play for them as an empathy-dependent skill but you just made it so clear I don't think I'll be able to unsee it again. There were times it was as if I was their liaison to the less important people (reality) or something.
So remembering that and realizing of course they didn't really need an interpreter but feigning confusion and intolerance and superiority in that way was how they groomed me really pisses me off. I hadn't thought of it as anything more complicated than a pitiable inability to resist showing off to a grade-schooler. Ugh
Actually though then again before my halfbrother was born and I became my dad's scapegoat too he was still humiliating socially, but in different ways. Like the first thing he asked one of my friends from summer camp when I was stupid enough to think letting me invite a friend somewhere could possibly be for my enjoyment was "Hi Chris,, and what does your daddy do?"🤮 The only work he ever did was manipulating other people into bad deals including the business he ruined for me when I hadn't asked for or needed his "help". So no wonder he was insecure all the way back then--facepalm. Thanks for this.
This video is incredibly accurate! Please never take it away from RUclips - a lot of us need it! :)
Thank you for educating other therapists on these issues. There is definitely a shortage of folks who grasps these concepts without patients having to educate them.
I didn't realize I was the scapegoat until I saw my teen son dealing with a narc ex gf. She trashed him to her friends (his former friends) and is nice to him when her friends aren't around. The situation got me so enraged for him. I know him and he's a very kind wonderful person. He was wanting to write apology letters to the friends when he hadn't done anything wrong. This video is helpful. Thank you.
Thanks, Jay. All of your videos and your book have helped me immensely. Keep up the great work!
Great Lesson😊 Thank you! Cute Puppy napping on the chair
You’re welcome 😊
A counsellor told me, 'You have more strength than you think?
I didn't quite understand or accept her comment. Now I know.
I survived sexual abusive & narcissistic parents. Thank you
what a beautiful video, thanks for reminding us of our strength.
Oh my goodness, that’s my mother. I’m calm everywhere but am called the emotionally instable and cruel one at home. I have been so confused but recently I read about reactive abuse and realised that I’m still falling for my mother’s baiting. How stupid/blind could I be?
She is so mean, but has the demeanour and the face of an angel. She uses my weakest points: the fact that I have been dealing with depression (due to her) since my adolescence and my father’s illness and dependence on her kindness. Wilful neglect, victim playing, gaslighting and triangulation/defamation disguised as “worry” are her revenge if you don’t do her bidding. She is controlling, coercive and cruel and she is persistent and behind your back - and no one outside can see this side of her because she can act the caring, deeply worried, overwhelmed mother and wife.
I get you; my mother is the same. I am now no contact with her and sadly, my siblings. We are strong and stable. 🎉❤
@@soniahathaway1 🤗Yes, we are strong. But I keep waking up (now after no contact two weeks ago) with that inner voice of my siblings and father who tells me that I must be crazy and that ours is a caring family and that I’m getting it all wrong, because I’m weird and possibly really not really sane. And it’s so difficult to stick to my perception because THEY are like a unity and a complete wall. They all treat the depression - kindly! - as if it was my fault and a burden to them all… but that they still love me…but that my parents are suffering because of my outbursts (when they tell me sweetly that I’m probably not really sane because of my being “too sensitive” or just getting the worry of our poor mother wrong). Their “kind” stabbing leaves me doubting and confused and ruminating and in a constant state of exhaustion because I don’t want to judge wrongly of course. I think I really need trauma therapy because I notice that when I’m ruminating and I do take time to remember the hurtful moments I get scared of going back into the darkest depression, and I’m so glad that I overcame that darkest point - by getting informed (!) But then again I find myself doubting whether I’m not only exaggerating. I need help to get validatiom because I get the gaslighting and then fall directly back into doubts, especially when I remember moments where I got really angry with my mother and my father who didn’t even listen but were and are like a wall. For them, I’m the one who gets it all wrong and there’s not a tiny admission from their side. It’s bad.
My mother to a T, and enabling father
You resemble my stepfather, but obviously your eyes are kinder and warmer & actually have love and life in them; it’s like exposure therapy for me prepping having to see him soon
The last ex narc I was married to told me one day that I was “strong.” I later realized that it wasn’t a compliment, it was that he couldn’t completely break me down and get total control over me. 🤷🏾♀️
I am a believer my children are a better and stronger more talented people than me ! This is just part of nature as far as I am concerned! Thank you
Thank you Jay; your affirmation of this prevasive seeking for truth has been a pillar upholding my purpose and persistence as a scapegoat survivor. I am now 70 yrs plus and so relieved to discover that a narcissist mother and my role as scapegoat in family of origin is setting me free. Questions and missing links are falling into place, and bringing new peace, hope and healing. I value you and your work.
My narcissistic dad dropped out of the ninth grade yet he believes he knows better than everyone else and has never made mistakes, how can this be?
Thinking of the 3 pillars of recovery…. Gaining distance from the Narcissistic abuser. I’ve been NC with my family for many years. Unfortunately broke it just over 2 years ago when my abusive ex husband walked out.
My Narc mother had a rage at me for going NC, then took my then 16 year old daughter and myself back into the family while strategically keeping me away from my GC sister & other family members. She then kicked me out, kept my daughter in there, and replaced me in the family with my abusive ex husband. It’s disgustingly sick.
I want to stay out of it and get on with my life but my daughter is in my family now. She’s very unwell with BPD and has recently cut me off again although hasn’t done it for ages. She’s almost 19. She’s had her own issues with them.
What do I do to move on from the chaos and drama when my only daughter is in the middle of it. And now turned on me as well. This is all just too much.
Your work is much needed and this video was just a great tool to help understand and even deal with ongoing ' show of power'. Thank you 🙏🏼
I had to go against to my sister who I grew up with…after a mother (she died few years ago) was dark triad… now found out my sister is (possible more) dark triad. I went no contact after she gave me the silence treat..while she had to divide the will. ….she put her 13 year old son against me in that time, to put me in a bad daylight he’s now 18). And sees me as a bad person that did very bad things (all lies by the way).
It’s hard to get back to your strenght
It feels like weight has been lifted off me thank you .
Thank you, this came at the perfect time🙏🏼💕
My mother hasn’t spoke to me in 2 years, my siblings stopped talking to me and my son 3 years ago because they believe what my narcissist mother tells them. She acts one way with them and one way with me. I could never win. Now they want me back into the fold because my mother is embarrassed about this to her own siblings. I’m much happy now that I’ve detached. So is my son. We are off the hamster wheel.
You have no idea how valuable this video is. Thank you!
I took off my rose tinted glasses about 2 years ago after ending my toxic relationship with my narcissist father. YOU sir have completely explained me in this video as the scapegoat trying to survive. I'm desperate for information and yes, answers. Thank you SO much for this video, and yes, you are completely accurate. Xxxooo Janique (Canada)
While I agree with the general premise of the video, I also think being considered stronger than the narc parent can lead to the enablers lnsisting you/they need to join in to protect the "fragile" narc-even if it means protecting her from you.ln addition, even the strongest break...when they do, the others look the other way or make you into the "designated patient"/crazy person.
Amazing video...and finally truth emerges.
God bless you Jay
I just realized that my husband and I are both scapegoat children. No wonder we’re so good together. So that saying something like “this’ll build your character”, is a truth?