Why The Format is Everything - The Incineroar Theorem
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- Опубликовано: 27 июн 2024
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Timestamps:
0:00 - Intro
2:12 - Format Differences in Singles and VGC
3:09 - Fakeout & Other Moves Good in VGC
7:38 - Good Doubles Abilities
9:43 - Moves & Abilities That Are NOT Good in Doubles
12:11 - Pokemon That are Good in Both
13:26 - The Pokemon of the Hour
17:29 - Conclusion
Directed by Kellen / kellen_fsg
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Edited By Connor Nguyen aka CDK
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VFX Intro By Ryan Gonzales
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Игры
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Perhaps the next could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
"Now that's pivoting!"
Flareon theorem@@playersnake
Fsg pls do a video about how rng is everything. It could be called the Jirachi theorem or the gen 1 theorem.
My Bombergrounds ID: Rebornjm
That 2-hour long "How GREAT was Incineroar ACTUALLY" video is gonna go crazy whenever it drops. I just know it 😭😭
Not 2h but probably like a latios video
Yeah, FSG has recently doing some starter Pokémon video, and we’re in Hoenn right now. Maybe we might get Sinnoh and Unova first…
If Landorus of all Pokemon didn't hit 2 hours, Incineroar sure isn't.
@@jjtheentonright. Lol. He hasn't been out that long
If Landorus didn't even get to an hour and a half, no way is Incineroar getting anywhere near 2 hours
Why Having a Fully Charged Console is (most likely) Everything - the VGC Newbie Theorem
STOP LMAOO
Why Actually Playing the Game is (almost) Everything - the Overconfident Redditor Theorem
@@nobody08088nah that’s /vp/
if you don’t know what it is, then consider that a very good thing
@@nobody08088Twitter Theorem
@@nobody08088you over did him
Here take this
👑
Can't wait for "How good was Incineroar?" Gonna have to be a whole story about his insane rise and murder of Landorus.
That would just 10 minutes of FSG reading top 4 vgc tournament appearances
@@AlbRomano
“To save time, we will be limiting placements to only tournaments that Incineroar both won, and took all 4 top spots.”
@@Endershock1678 and then proceeds to read 10 minutes of incin tournament appearances
I literally just realized that Incineroars stat spread is just Swampert: but swap 5 HP for 5 Attack. Both still have great Defensive typings and movepools, but it really goes to show how impactful the enviornment is for one to be consistently top tier or UU, while the other is a low tier god. But the dichotomy is flipped in Doubles!
Not to mention Swamp's dominance in gen 3/4. Imagine if he got regenerator or recover finally.
@@zayneharring9570regenerator really fits Swampert well biologically.hope my favorite boi gets it eventually
Yeah, abilities really are strong. Incineroar also has a min maxed build for doubles. Parting shot, Fake out, U-Turn, Helping Hand, and Intimidate is broken. So many great options. Swampert would be a major piece in singles if Gamefreak had the courage to give it Regenerator.
@Killer1984able EXACTLY It's a sin an actual axolotl can't regenerate it's body. Wth GamerFreak 😂
@Killer1984able also, my favorite too! Mudkip was my first starter and I will never regret that.
I think one super interesting difference is how stat dropping moves like charm, string shot, or fake tears are a rarity in singles but extremely good support in VGC since a switch to reset stats costs so much more in the faster paced format
plus, defense-lowering moves like fake tears can be utilized by the other pokemon, allowing for immediate 1-2-punches that wouldn't be possible in singles.
Keep wolfey away from this video
Wolfey: "There's no laws against it in VGC, Bat-Zheng."
Why? 🤨
Yes please
Lol
Idk whenever he say competitive pokemon is only doubles it grinds me the wrong way like why does he pretend like it doesnt even exist or is it just me?
At this rate Wolfey's gonna switch to Smogon, just to avoid Incineroar
Na, Wolfey would never do that because of how horribly that would ruin his real practice. Smogonites are notoriously incapable of doing well at official tournaments specifically because their unofficial tiering format is so drastically different from the real game that they become incapable of playing the real game which lacks their tiering rules. Anyone who wants official tournament success avoids Smogon like a plague due to needing to ground their expectations and game knowledge on the real game's broken and unfiltered nonsense. So as much as Wolfey despises that overused Tony The Tiger ripoff cat, he has to put up with it if he wants to retain his official titles and success.
It also explains why whenever you see Smogon doubles movesets, very few of them have Protect...which is THE most common move in Doubles outside of their little bubble due to how practical and useful it is. It's also the crux of why Smogonites are so bad using nor playing against Trick Room since Protect is one of the ultimate enablers and counters to it.
If he didn't do that in gen 8 he has no reason to do that now.
@joshuakim5240 a smogon singles player literally finished 2nd at worlds last year.
@@joshuakim5240 I've never read a take more horrible in my entire life, damn I am not even mad I am amazed how absolutley inhumanely dogsht this take is, you deserve a god damn award Jesus christ
@@resurrection7480 The Smogon hate runs deep...
This video dropping 2 days after WolfeyVGC's "Why this Stupid Cat is the Best Pokemon Ever" is so poetic
poetic is incineroar only appearing once in the top 8 of the most recent major tournament this weekend
Yeah, and Wolfey used clickbait. Because no, Incineroar isn't close to the best Pokemon ever. Its Doubles greatness is offset by its singles lacklustre efforts. The best Pokemon would be one good in both sorts of format.
@@egbertmilton4003 lol bro, that's why he's called wolfeyvgc. he talks about vgc, which is a doubles format. obviously he wasn't talking about both singles and doubles, only doubles.
@@rogue_114 Then simply just don't call it the best Pokemon ever in the title. Because ever doesn't mean limited to VGC. And no, he doesn't only talk about VGC, he talks about other parts of Pokemons history, so just because he talks about VGC most, doesn't mean that every video he makes is only about VGC. He's just using clickbait when calling Incineroar the best ever
@@egbertmilton4003 in this case you can obviously assume that wolfey is talking about vgc because it's pretty common knowledge that incineroar is a doubles legend
Can't wait for Mega Incineroar in Legends ZA
With its new signature ability As One (Intimidate + Intimidate)
@@dataexpunged4784 Lowers the opponents' attack and sp. attack and also immobilizes them for one turn.
@@Mr.Sax.
It also gets a new Fake Out, that’s a dark type move that hits fairy for super effective, and is a spread move.
dark steel type?
... you're delusional if you expect anything but Mega Charizard Z from ZA when it comes to fire starters getting Mega evolutions, lol.
I don't know if I just missed it in the video but another hugely importand difference with Tailwind is how speed changes are updated during the turn and not after, a recent change in Gen 8. This means if you use Tailwind, your Pokemon is IMMEDIATELY faster and can let you outspeed your opponent the turn you activated Tailwind.
This also allows strategies revolving around lowering your opponent’s speed or defensive stats to enable an offensive mon
it changed in gen 7 which was also huge for singles cuz it meant pokemon like mega metagross got their speed increase when they mega evolved instead of the next turn, not really a big deal now anymore cuz megas are gone
Remember Incineroar's Anime Episode was about Tag Team Wrestling. This Cat was always made with Doubles in Mind. He is...Terry the Punk of Pokemon
“Oh geez, this incineroar is problematic, I better taunt him to stop something like parting shot or will-o”
Incineroar, and every other dark type: “that’s where you’re wrong, Kidd-o”
AV was most common in gen 7.
non-Prankster status still works on dark types, although in VGC you're more likely gonna aim those at the other slot since Incin will be standing next to the real problems of your opponent's team
@@jamesaditya5254 ah, must have mixed it up. Either it was from using prankster taunt or trying to taunt something under aroma veil, I was under the impression dark types were inherently immune to taunt, my mistake
Taunt Flutter Mane:
I feel like gen 9 regielki would have been a good one to mention, as it achieved one of if not the quickest quick ban to Ubers this generation, but sees no play in VGC this gen
Yeah, after the ability nerf and the removal of dynamax it really fell off.
Well that's more a mechanic thing than a format thing, cause it was broken in Gen 8 doubles and only decent in Gen 8 singles
3:11 I gasped at the Davie reference , thank you
Who’s that?
@Davie504
looks like FSG had the same reaction I did when seeing Wolfey's "Incineroar is the best mon ever" video
Something that I wish this video had touched upon a bit more was the differences between Smogon doubles and VGC. For instance, in Smogon doubles, hazards like Stealth Rocks are more viable, and Zamazenta-Crowned is probably the best support Pokemon ever with Snarl, Wide Guard, Coaching, Imprison, Helping Hand, excellent bulk, and offensive presence with ID/Body Press (Zama-C takes a restricted slot in VGC, something you only get two of and want to reserve for your offensive powerhouses, which is why it isn't used there)
Yeah DOU has some pretty interesting stuff. Mew glue, Jirachi redirector etc. And the bans are interesting too, like how ape is considered more problematic than flutter.
@@RocketPropelledMexican Flutter is actually banned now, which I'm a bit sad about, but I didn't play enough to give a full opinion
Same but with the two Singles formats. It's really interesting how much if a difference the "bring six, choose three" rule and item clause actually creates.
@@aedrarising2760that'd be a fun video
8:48 Clefairy is NOT Little Cup legal! It has a pre-evolution called Cleffa!
Anyway, decently fun analysis video! Thanks for uploading!
gen 1 little cup when
I love how gamefreak balanced the metagame around doubles so hard in gen 9 that singles turned into an absolute madhouse
As much as I would like to agree, we only get like 4(?) double battles in base S/V
@@raydosnooband they’re all part of a singular gym challenge because why teach the player about this battle style earlier?
@@MarcusTalks1it's so funny to me that they make the entire game singles battles, even to some degree mimicking the tiering system by having gyms generally use more powerful pokemon later in the games, and then have the official format being in a battle system that generally has a single gym devoted to it, if that.
There's a reason why, even with tpc and big vgc players acting like singles doesn't exist, smogon isn't going away, and that's because when everyone who isn't specifically a vgc fan (ie most fans, since most fans don't know much, if anything, about serious play in general) pictures a pokemon battle, they're always picturing a singles battle, whether in game or in the anime.
Blueberry Academy at least, has both double battles and a good amount of trainers with actual held items and team strategies.
@@auroraourania7161 I just mean it was more of a bad design choice. Considering the other games in the series had regular trainers consistently doing double battles. Even in the games where there wasn’t a double battle gym, there were trainers that did double battles with you. And they had way more than 4, and way earlier in the game than basically the 6th gym
I just love trying things in the Battle Maison! The perfect place to test your team in any format
And it's the place where i really noticed how different both Formats are...
DD Moxie Salamence is amazing in singles... But Intimidade is invaluable in Doubles and is a bit dangerous in Triple Battles
Triple Battles is kind if WILD
One more thing that the 2v2 format changes is the requirement for movesets. In Singles, Pokemons are often expected to have type coverage and be able to cover a wide range of Pokemons. The less Pokemons your Pokemon is unable to handle, the more often you're forced to switch out. Most Pokemons want to run at least 3 offensive moves with no overlap in typings, and almost only Stall and Support Pokemons actually run 2 or more Support moves. And this is why Hidden Power has been a staple, it's the perfect move to patch holes in your type coverage.
But in 2v2, type coverage isn't as important. A lot of Pokemon are seen bringing only two offensive moves or even less, because whatever the Pokemon cannot handle, they can let the teammate handle them instead. There's even often overlaps in typings due to the targetting and utility they bring, such as spread and speed control. That lower importance in type coverage allows to slot in more Support moves, very notably Protect.
Huh you made me realise how much of an insignificance the removal of Hidden Power had on VGC, granted not to say that it was useless, but that 2v2 really brought forward teamwork and relying on your own mon's moveset to fill their own role and not always have the best/most type coverage.
A Choice Specs Articuno with Blizzard, Freeze Dry, Ice Beam and Sheer Cold (yes, really) recently won a regional 😂 So yes I think your comment makes sense
@@carucath97
Who needs coverage when you got a big rock dog and ice ice baby sending the entire other team to the shadow realm.
.
so true
Excited for "Why the Trainer is EVERYTHING" and it talks about unique players, strategies, and plays or teams that only work for the best of the best
the ash ketchum theorem 😭
The CTC theorem… “How great was CTC actually?” Number 4
The Kingambit theorem.
@@mikael.00the skill issue theorem.
The blundino theorem (it works bc he's either good or tactically throws)
While this is by no means always true, i think a good rule of thumb for Pokemon regardless of the format is that Pokemon that are able to alter or set the pace of a battle (either in the opposite direction of the formats baseline pace or by accentuating the formats pace) tend to be good. Using Incineroar and Blaziken as examples, what makes Incineroar so good in doubles is it's ability to slow down the pace of battles by using intimidate and fake out multiple times in part thanks to protect and or u-turn/parting shot. Blaziken on the other hand, literally uses Speed Boost to increase the pace of a singles match by threatening to end the game quickly if you don't find a way to stop it from snowballing.
Agreed, prankster tornadus is a freaking NIGHTMARE
13:06 ‘And the ability to shut something down with Spore’
Amoongus sheds a tear over the recent sleep ban in singles
This is why singles will never be truly competitive lol. They just take away everything that makes people mald and rage on showdown in order to keep the mentally ill players from shooting up their school LOLLLLLLLLLLLL might as well just get rid of crits, paralyze, confusion, moves with less than 100% accuracy, like Jesus christ lmao
@@frankcaggiano8282 Your whole argument is invalidated by the existence of Ubers and AG
@@frankcaggiano8282Lol this is so much nonsense, have you ever heard of voting? Balancing? Do you like the meta of doubles where there is always 5-10 mons that are the only viable ones and if you don't play a combination of these you will lose? Oh that sounds hella fun to me.
People want these bans, so what's wrong about it? Also as someone above already said, you have more metagames to play if you don't want these rules.
@@frankcaggiano8282 Sleep was banned because it was uncompetitive. Its completely random if your going to go to sleep for 1, 2 or 3 turns and in singles 1 turn of setup is normally enough to win a game on certain pokemon (I'm look at you Darkrai and Iron Valiant). Adding to that most sleep moves are likely to miss adding even more RNG. Sleep Iron Valiant isn't a good strat because half the time it doesn't work but the other half its stupidly OP. Sleep needed to be banned.
@@Victoria3WorldConquerer and that's my point exactly. If sleep is uncompetitive because it's random whether you sleep for 1, 2, or 3 turns, then moves than can miss are random and need to be banned. Or confusion, it's a 1/4 chance to not only lose your turn like sleep, but also even damage yourself! How insanely op is that, right! And paralysis? 3/4 speed AND a 25% chance to lose my turn? When speed control is so penultimate? Man, they surely should ban that too, because random=bad. Don't even get me started on critical hits!
@15:38
"Incineroar is regularly complained about by the VGC playerbase, some even considering its presence toxic."
Meanwhile, two days ago: "Why this Stupid Cat is the Best Pokemon Ever" -Wolfe Glick
You do realize that the reason why VGC complains about Incineroar, and consider its presence toxic, is precisely because how good it is, right?
@@eamk887
Oh I do, I am genuinely and unironically subbed to Wolfe Glick after all; doesn't make it any less of a running gag/meme though.
9:51 LOVED the umvc3 reference there
Something Id love to see is a mainline game that just goes all out and is played on doubles for the entire time, like the Colosseum games. i always found it weird how the games are 99% singles, but competitive is in doubles. No doubt a ton of potential players feel intimidated by the format change
The Dracovish Theorem - Why Amplifiers Are Everything
This can discuss things like STAB, weather/terrain boosts, item boosts from things like Choice Band, abilities, etc
Reason it'd be called the Dracovish Theorem is cause Dracovish benefits from like every possible boost. It gets STAB on Fishious Rend, that you can then boost in rain, that also boosts if you're faster, you can also boost it with an item like Choice Band and just keep going
I mean Miraidon is probably the better one now with STAB, Elec Terrain, Hydron Engine, Item Boosted, Tera Boosted, Extra damage on super effective Electro Drifts and that's all without factoring in any other mons on the team unlike Draco needing support for rain
This series is getting better with every video! Love the variety between this and other series.
And then there is Flutter mane god in both formats
Knowing my favorite is one of the greatest in a format I’m not interested in but roughly decent in the format I am interested in is a very bittersweet feeling.
Knowing my favorite is the worst in any format is a bitter feeling
@@mouthwaterin Knowing my favorite is unviable in single-player is a sad feeling.
Knowing my favorite is middle of the road to unviable in singles and not viable in doubles is sad, at least it’s the best option for black and white speedruns (Stoutland)
Just start playing vgc, we totally don’t have a broken format with no bans
@@Sabert0imagine trusting gamefreak to balance the format, rip bozos. :(
Great video, I would definitely love a longer one comparing the formats!
Would love to see The Snorlax Theorem; why the Pokémon generation is an important factor in competitive singles/doubles
You mean why meta game is everything?
Isn't that just called power creep?
@@cephlo4933some amount is mechanics changes, like new types, no maxed out IVs, sleep talk calling rest, etc, but yeah, for the most part it's power creep
@@cephlo4933Granted, it’s not just power creep, but fighting getting buffed to not be terrible anymore.
@@cephlo4933
Belly Drum Snorlax on its way to sweep your whole team under Trick Room in Gen 7 VGC.
Just a small preview of the Incineroar movie to watch here. Can’t wait for the release in the future
I am liking the pokemon cries and descriptions you have started to add. Good editing too. Great video!
Hope FSG makes an hour and a half video about Incineroar in the future!
Doubles are all allergic to THIS cat
I’ve got one! How about a “Flygon postulate”
A postulate differs from a theorem in that it’s assumed true whereas a theorem can be proven true.
Flygon postulate because while on paper, Flygon has a lot going for it (balanced stats, decent typing, varied and wide movepool, halfway decent ability, fan favorite), it still gets the short end of the stick because it’s just too “balanced” thus needing it to be buffed. (This is ironic in a sense because why buff or nerf something balanced enough, right?) The idea hinges on extremes (as Pokémon likes to do). Why choose a jack of all trades to perform the job that a niche specialist can just do better, even so slightly?
Some Pokémon that come to mind for the postulate: Kingdra, Charizard, Raikou, Toxicroak, etc
Just a thought!
Perhaps the next could be why move sets (like mix attacking, fast physical, bulky special, etc) are close to everything or the Dragonite theorem
this is easily the best vgc / smogon comparison i've seen. it really put into context a lot of things i've seen in vgc from the outside but didnt fully understand, like the importance of fake out
Unfortunate to see people arguing about the legitimacy of formats and players here. Both forms of play are rich in depth and complexity, comparing the two should be a way of celebrating how versatile of a game Pokemon is, not arguing for the superiority of one side of the community.
It is Pokémon’s fault for making most battles in game 6v6 but force the only recognized competitive doubles, pick 4. When your preferred in-game battle system and your official competitive system are different, at odds, and equally pushed, why wouldn’t there be such a split?
The point is, Pokemon should have been doubles all along if that is all they will recognize.
Humans always strive for superiority as a group, and this also manifests itself here with Pokemon.
This could also be called the Skarmory Theorum.
I mean i would not call skarmory a meta vgc pick
@@vinipvp4228 It's the opposite. It's a pokemon great in singles and all but useless in vgc. Just looking at it from the other angle.
@@atdaniell2797 thats what i said '-'
@@vinipvp4228and you can't call Incin good in singles
FerroMoonguss theorem
2:44 That's the Yugioh lifepoint counter sound!!!
The concept of this video really resonates with me even when it comes to singles - I know it's not a standard metagame but I always think of Cradily in Monotype, it's barely a pokémon in any of the standard singles formats from Gen 5 onwards, currently being ZU but it's an absolutely integral part of Monotype Rock teams in the generations it's been in because of its water immunity and ground neutrality, as well overall good longevity with Recover.
Pokémon really is such a nuanced game that the traits that make a pokémon great can be as simple as what the rules of the match are - while some objectively good pokémon will exist across multiple formats, there really is some sort of place for a lot of mons that people wouldn't deem useful
9:52 GOATED UMVC3 REFERENCE
Where’s the reference?
@@skeetermania3202 Kingambit flashes red, which in Ultimate Marvel vs Capcom 3 (UMVC3) means you just used X factor, the games comeback mechanic. You can also hear it say “I need more power!!”, which is a quote from Vergil, the strongest abuser or X factor in UMVC3.
One thing I think is interesting that you didn't touch on in this video is movesets. More specifically, I'm a VGC player, but I watch a lot of singles content, and I've always been so surprised by how willing singles players are to use inaccurate moves. OU players will regularly run moves like Focus Blast and Hurricane, whereas in VGC, you're only running Hurricane on rain teams and you'll basically never see focus blast. I'd guess it once again comes down to the shorter length of games. When a game is only 6 turns, you really can't afford to lose a turns worth of damage by missing, whereas its much easier to recover from in a game thats 60 turns
Something similar does come up in singles, since accuracy is an important factor
Example, do you prefer:
Fire Blast:
+ Very strong, allows you to get damage thresholds that would otherwise not be in your favor.
- Low PP, not great for longer turns, especially with low accuracy.
Flamethrower:
+ Much more accurate, has lots of PP.
- Less of a chance to reach certain damage thresholds.
That, or the pokemon just doesn't have better options. Pokemon with Hurricane sometimes don't have access to Air Slash, but even if they did its a fairly weak move with only the flinch chance barely making up for it
And Pokémon with Focus Blast would for sure consider Aura Sphere as a replacement, but for some reason it's fairly limited in its distribution.
Sometimes singles players run inaccurate moves because of their coverage, to be forced to switch out loses you a ton of tempo in singles, because if your opponent knows you're walled they basically get a free turn
Coincidentally the only kind of fighting coverage a lot of psychic type pokémon get is Focus Blast, which is sometimes necessary to not be completely useless in face of a steel or dark type (a lot of them get fairy coverage but steel resisting psychic is steel a problem you have to account for)
Hurricane can be much the same deal when you have a fighting type absorbing your bug type moves or a grass type shrugging off your water type moves, you might risk using Hurricane for the increased power especially if it nets you an OHKO where the accurate Air Slash wouldn't.
Like the editing changes in this one!
although the values for the after effects wiggle might be a little high, i would personally slow it down a little bit
This is the FSG video I have been waiting for
WolfeyVGC is typing...
Yeah, he needs to sit down and take it, because his hating Incineroar schtick is just overdone
@@egbertmilton4003 😂😂
@@egbertmilton4003you never said he’s wrong
@@jebalitabb8228 Oh but he is. To be frank, he is very incorrect. There are way worse Pokemon on VGC's health, one of which is Urshifu, which is what he covers. Yet, he bothers hating on Incineroar, who is harmless in comparison
@@egbertmilton4003 Your onion, m8.
Wolfey uploads a video on Incineroar and now this?
This heel wrestler cat is getting all the attention as per usual. Definitely the Charizard of Gen 7 in terms of exposure.
Love the editing in this vídeo ❤
You could also have mentioned downsides when talking about viable moves - for instance, offensive poison types in singles will almost always spam sludge wave because there is no downside, but in vgc sludge wave is almost non-existent because it hits your partner if they are not steel type. In contrast, high horsepower and stomping tantrum are virtually useless in singles because everything that gets them gets earthquake, but because of wide guard/hitting your allies, many doubles pokemon will either not run earthquake, or run it alongside one of the other two moves depending on team composition.
Not to disagree with your main point but Sludge Bomb is almost always taken over Sludge Wave if both are available (the only notable exception that comes to mind being Sheer Force mons like Nidoking) for the 30% poison chance instead of 10% for just 5 BP less. Also High Horsepower is seen sometimes in singles when paired with a Grassy Terrain setter as it isn't weakened unlike EQ
Hear me out mega incineroar with a ability that lowers your opponent's att and spa by 4 stages and all your opponent's pokemon can't attack for 100 turns
The irony of its mega (typical to non mega incineroar) owning vgc while continuing to be mid in whatever tier it'd inhabit in smogon singles is madness.
Delete your comment before someone at Gamefreak reads this
Love how this is basically a haha nerd to wolfey, reminding him that casual and singles players do in fact exist
Yeah, Wolfey is so stupid, not even bothering to consider the singles format well at all
Im pretty sure he knows and acknowledges that there is a single format. He's said so in multiple videos. It's just that he isn't into it since he is mainly focus in VGC. Even if he didn't, is it really a bad thing?
@@marcorodriguez8792 Yes, it is, because he keeps making claims that act as if his doubles thoughts extend to the rest of the formats. His Incineroar video is embarassing, no you can’t just title a Pokémon as the best ever if it only excels in one format. Him being a VGC talker isn’t even an excuse, he’s talked about several other aspects of Pokémon separate from VGC, at this point he’s just using clickbait
@@egbertmilton4003You’re making a complete mountain out of a molehill, buddy. You know exactly what he’s talking about.
@@skeetermania3202 Nah, Wolfey is just not as good as you thought in judging Pokemon
great video! I personally am more of a VGC person but came to singles after the increasing powerlevel of VGC has decreased the variety of most viable teams to an extend where I don't like it as much anymore, and Smogon Lower Tiers are the perfect fit for that niche ^^
The best solely singles example of this is Mandibuzz, who goes to whatever tier needs it most
VGC sucks ass. Pokemon battles are supposed to be 6x6, no team preview, singles or doubles.
Are you really gonna be the type to say that strategizing what pokemon to bring and making the game hours long with hazards be the case and better for spectating?
@@cephlo4933 Cry me a river, troll.
@@renatoramos8834 Sez you since you're complaining about it and crying lmao. I'm just pointing out why it doesn't suck but all you see it is as a "troll" ok buddy.
I got a YGO ad before the video and right at the beginning you decide to insert YGO sound effects, that can't be just a coincidence
The memes in this video were top tier, cheers to the editors!
I love the use of the Yugi sound effects in this video 😄
It is crazy how the viability of total walls & fast frail sweepers swaps drastically with supports and slow bulky pokemon when you switch formats.
Why protect is close to everything:
the Urshifu theorem.
one more thing I would like to see in this video is another of inceneroar brokeness in vgc, he's also a dark type, making him immune to the prominent prankster pokemons
The Davey Jumpscare at 3:10 LOL
Two key important differences between the singles and doubles battles format are even touched upon in the end of the video in the Blaziken x Incineroar discussion and in the Blissey section, but only a bit: the mixed attackers and exclusively one sided defensive walls. Blaziken surely has the stats and movepool to be a mixed attacker, so it fits it perfectly in the singles battles, as does the current OU prime mixed attacker Iron Valiant, meanwhile in doubles only a handful of people will even attempt to use either Blaziken or Iron Valiant exactly because they are mixed attackers, so their stats are not optimized for the biggest short term damage possible, and strategies that try to use them are commonly labelled as gimmicks. On the other hand, since doing big and fast damage is so important in VGC, its very common to have a physical attacker and a special attacker at the same time in the field to be able to hit opponents in both spectrums, which makes dedicated walls on only one type of defensive capabilities much harder to function, a reason why Blissey never had a big impact, Dondozo is built as a sweeper with Commander Tatsugiri instead of the Unaware physical wall in OU and mixed defensive support thrive in VGC like Amoongus and Incineroar (someone even made a team a while ago with Dondozo and Ting-Lu to do a kind of doubles stall with Stealth Rocks, Roar, Yawn, Fissure and even Rest (if I'm not mistaken) as the main tools, but even those 2 together, that individually are quite possibly the fattest most durable Pokemon to came out of gen 9, couldn't withstand the enormous combined damage and the team archetype never got much traction beyond that).
I find it awesome I commented 9 months ago for this exact video to come out when you made the flareon theorem, wish I would’ve gotten a shout out 😂
As someone who always skipped almost all vgc parts of your videos, this video was genuinely enjoyable for me
There's also a lot to be said about how formats within specifically singles or doubles can also really define how strong a Pokemon is. Some Pokemon like Kabutops in gen 5 do better in higher tiers where things like weather setters are allowed or even for just as simple reasons as there being more counters to it that are meta in lower tiers than higher tiers. VGC goes through so many formats and different pokemon might be able to shine in limited formats as one of the only regional dex options for certain utility such as how Pachirisu was able to win worlds because it had a unique niche in a limited format. There might have already been a video on metagames though, if so that would probably have more on how the metagame a pokemon exists in can be just as important as the format.
Would love a long form video on this subject!
The thought of the Secret to Regigigas' Power being a waft of Wheezing's gas has always made me smile.
I love it when we get a VGC focused video
8:47 whoa wait is Clefairy in little cup? What about Cleffa?
Dang, at the start of the video he started talking about tiers, and I was like... damn. I'd watch format and tier deep dives to explore their evolution and inception any day.
One relatively rare but interesting part of Doubles you left out is the interaction between teammates via the right set of abilities and offensive attacks. For instance, using Surf alongside a Storm Drain Gastrodon, who'll not only be immune to the move, but also gain a boost; or the Beat Up + Justified combo.
Oh, also After You Lilligant, and other specific weather abusers.
I'd love to see a video on HP vs Defence at some point, where you can make comparisons between bulky tanks like Shuckle and Blissey, but then also Pokemon like Wigglytuff and Cradily that are similar but not quite up there either.
This reminds me of how tatsugiri once ran commander in singles because otherwise it got walled by gardevoir in nu
12:01 Little update imho. Leftovers in VGC were used only on ferrothorn and similars before 2018. Since someone started playing tapu fini with leftovers and calm mind in 2018 with 1 or even 2 fake outs (commonly incineroar and rillaboom after gen 8) leftovers is now considered as an option on a pokemon that protects a lot or has a set up move like clam mind or bulk up like kommo-o or corviknight with iron def+body press set or calm mind raging bolt right now.
This is, in my opinion, another proof of the theorem because with dynamax almost nobody used leftovers, now with terastal is a valuable item because the general damage output of the meta is far lower than the dynamax meta.
About damn time. I came up with this idea
2 vids one week we have been blessed
Team picking is very different as well. Just the threat that something can be brought but may not be brought can change the game
Let’s not forget about moves like Icy Wind which are so common on water types that it often overshadows blizzard, another outstanding move in its own right.
Plus hail teams actually being great in doubles since Abomasnow had a lot of great placement over the years for several generations.
Two things I think could have been mentioned:
1. The fact that VGC HAS to use the gimmicks of each generation. The two obvious examples of this are DMax and megas. In Gen 8, not too long after the games were released, DMaxwas banned in singles, and it meant that certain pokemon that benefitted from DMax, like Gyarados and Ditto, took a nosedive. DMax stayed in VGC, though, leading to two MASSIVELY different meta games.
2. Cart Vs Showdown. If any place would be good to mention this, VGC bs Smogon would have been it. The need to obtain pokemon in order to play in official VGC tournaments can be a pretty big deterrent to those who aren’t good at obtaining optimal pokes, and can swing them towards Smogon. It also gives incentive for people to use stuff like PKHex to hack in pokes, which as we can see, causes some issues when the nation hosting the tourney has criminalized that sort of thing.
Clicked the video and came straight to the comments. Im going to assume based on the title we're going to talk about how both the mons in the thumbnail are gods in their formats but not so much in the other?
I had this convo with a friend the other day because I'm a Blaziken stan. Its my favorite.
This is the one I've been waiting for! Knowing what you're up against is essential. Just ask Van Hellsing.
Forgot to mention Wide Guard and Quick Guard.
leftovers are actually used fairly often in vgc on bulky mons. it's just not as prolific an item as it is in singles
The Yu-gi-oh sound effects hit so different
I cant wait for "Why the metagame is everything"
This could alternatively be title a Crash Course on Pokemon Double Battles. Their main differences from singles, the traits that are most desirable in the format, how individual Pokemon function completely differently within it, I was expecting it to have it's own quirks, but not for it to be so fascinating to learn about.
Been waiting for this
9:50 looks like Kingambit is motivated
Love the video explaining the different formats! To add to the abilities section, weather setting Pokemon are much more valuable in VGC than singles. Does anybody remember triple and rotation battles? I am hoping they return back to future Pokemon games!
thats just wrong, weather setting has always been massive in singles
I don’t play competitive, but it’s fascinating to watch.
Maybe you can also take a look at the impact of having legendaries in VGC. I know they were allowed back in Gen 4 but I believe they only really took off in the ORAS series. I remember there was a feeling of shock and excitement during that time, as then we had Megas, and then legendaries at the same time.
Speaking of format, perhaps for certain Pokemon you could cover 1v1 or monotype if the mon has more history there.
BROOO 3:10 WHATS UP SLAPPERS FROM DAVIEE XD god reference
Who’s David?
@@skeetermania3202 davie504 on RUclips
Ngl i wasnt expecting vergil popping xfactor in a pokemon video, but its so fitting for kingambit
VGC content for singles-focused Pokémon players from FSG does my heart good.
I got three theory ideas
Clefable Theorum (How pokemon changed when fairy was introduced)
Ninetales Theorum (How Pokemon rose in popularity with new forms (alolan for example))
Dugtrio Theorum (How Arena Trapping effected the Metagame)
You forgot to mention that we have Open Team Sheet in VGC, whole different game if you know almost exactly what your enemy brings to the battle in a information game like pokemon