Is It Better To Leave The Heating On Constantly? Boilers & Heat Pumps | Consumer Advice
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- Опубликовано: 17 май 2024
- Leaving your heating on may save you money! In this video, we answer the age old question, "should I leave my heating on at night?" and much more, for both boilers and heat pumps.
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00:00 Intro
01:50 What do we mean by heating all the time?
02:48 Heat loss is not the same as fuel usage
03:40 What's the heat source
06:36 Steady State Heating
07:37 Benefits of Steady State Heating
09:05 What's your usage?
10:01 Thermal Mass
11:04 What emitters do you have?
12:39 What controls do you have?
13:34 Summary 
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Amazing!
...if only you hadn't quit Facebook in January aaaaaa
(This is not a complaint, it's great that you guys are offering that. I'll just have to convince the missus to join lol)
@@jezlawrence720 just create a pseudo account!
Hi Adam in all your video you never mention to get the power you need for your air sorse heating from your solar panel and battery storage please can you let me know why
Can you please do an update now we have to pay over £5k for energy. Thanks.
@T U this video is even more relevant now.
That is a superb explanation of how to operate our central heating. I have been keeping our room stat at 17oC all night & most of the day, (we are retired & at home constantly). I have been really worried that we were using far more gas than we needed to. But when the heating has been off for 8 or 12 hours, it takes forever for the house to warm up so I have felt that that was too costly so it's nice to hear that you agree. We are lucky to have a well insulated house & a year old combi boiler, our old one had been installed in 1984 when the house was built, but packed up last Christmas. The new one stopped a week ago because of the big freeze, but the condensing outlet had got frozen at the bottom bend. I had to start near the roof with a hairdryer until it had all melted. Added some insulation around the pipe & got rid of the 90o bend at the bottom & all is good now. Very scary being up a ladder to use the hair drier at 80 years old, but our plumber was too busy with emergency call outs. Thanks for an interesting video.
You're still young at heart 💪
YesI found this to be the case too, having a smart meter allows me to experiment with these issues, I found by leaving my thermo at 15c 24-7 I use less gas than turning it off during the night, I found that the boiler has to work harder for a longtime to raise the temperature to the desired temp in the morning, which costs more in gas to raise the temp back to where it should be compared to allowing the boiler to cutin during the night, plus the structure of the house never drops either helping to maintain a steady heat.
I am really shocked you have only 38k subs.. man.. every single plumber should subscribe, and every DIY at heart person should.. absolute gold stuff
Wow you literally just validated that the way I have my Atag i15s boiler setup (for 20 degrees basically all day, and 18.5 degrees at night [because we have a 1 year old who we want to keep warmer than us adults]) is basically optimal.
We find the house takes a while to heat up - so running a steady temp all day gives us the comfort levels we want. I have worked from home for 2 years (soon to change) so having a warm house has been helpful/comforting.
We have weather comp and its a condensing boiler - and it has low temperatures generally - which is great when you have a little one who you don't want to hurt themselves on a red hot radiator.
The new tech in boilers is pretty great - but it's fapping complicated. I reckon 90% of homeowners will never bother to learn about this stuff - and I reckon 70% of plumbers don't understand how to tune a modern heating system. My installer didn't understand how to set it up properly for our home's characteristics, and I don't blame them: you need to live with the home and the heating system - configuring it for 2 to 3 months to get it right.
Even after maybe 50 hours tuning everything (TRVs, timings, temps etc) - it still needs a tweak once in a while.
It's absolutely exhausting tbh.
I've followed this and left the heating on, the results have been fantastic! House is nice and comfortable. Heating bill has increased by £197 and getting my house repossessed now. Just kidding, it has improved thermal Comfort and I'm not seeing the vent exhausting loads compared to the neighbours
excellent, describes my situation to a T! Had a 30 year old boiler changed to a Valliant condensing boiler. Amazed at the difference, but getting a new boiler didnt take into account the 30 year old TRVs. Your explanation of the improvements with heating all the time, (retired in bungalow with solid brick walls) almost decribes me peffectly. thank you. very professionally explained.
Thank you for such a thought provoking video and appreciate the time and effort these things take. I’ve passed this on to my two lads who have wet systems as it will help them make a more informed choice than the ones currently doing the rounds. I have a warm air system powered by a very efficient condensing boiler and as we have an open plan ground floor operates very well but I cannot regulate the temperature it operates at but it is much lower than conventional wet systems. As retirees we need heating on all throughout the day and I’ve approached my heating from a similar ‘speeding car’ car approach. The house is quite well insulated, cavity and loft, and my night time stat is set at 16 degrees. Current weather conditions dictate that it does operate, however I build the house temperature slowly first thing in the morning. To help address the cost we go to bed an hour earlier and get up a little later. The first main heat is at 17 degrees for ½ an hour incrementing up to 18 or 18.5 by 10 in the morning. As I have a smart thermostat I can adjust from my armchair raising to 19 degrees early evening. I do supplement the heating when it gets too cold with heated throw-overs which makes us very comfortable. I find that if the house is left to cool down too much you know pretty instantly how hard the boiler works to build up the heat lost - whether all this saves money I can’t say but as you say it’s also about comfort and preserving our health👍🏻 Kindest regards and Merry Christmas Mike
Hurrah! At last I have found someone explaining and SHOWING how to use the controls on my Air Source Heat Pump. I am pleased I got an AHSP, I just wish the manufacturers instructions were as helpful and as clear as these videos Congratulations Heat Geeks! This is exactly what I have been looking for since I had the system installed.
Thanks for your time, in putting all of these videos together. It's important information for people to have, right now.
I miss the time when I was living in a 70s flat in Poland heated up by the hot water from a nearby power plant (whole city runs on this). Radiators would come on in autumn and go off in the spring, steady temperature throughout the day with lower temps during the night (you can obviously dial down the rads yourself if you want). No mold, nice and toasty 23C all the time and none of the faff I'm having now in a detached house 😂
I have only recently started to look into heat pumps, your videos are so clear and informative, they should be subsidised by the government. Simply amazing!
But from the figures given they are expensive to install, ugly radiators and expensive to run if the house is empty until 18.00 every night so it has to be heating an empty house 16 hours a day.
Very informative, I have been telling friends the same story for years but I don't think that many believe me. Well done!
Bravo Adam! As succinct as ever, keep up the good work. 👍
Just a thought regarding condensing boilers and a bit on heat pumps for good measure. As you say, the vast majority of people with gas or oil boilers now have condensing boilers. So far, so good. What’s not good is that many, possibly most of these, have been installed and ‘commissioned’ to run at high temperature flow rates, as was the norm on pre-condensing boilers pre 2004/5, and often run at 80* flow and 70* return temperatures (or there or thereabouts). This means that whilst the boilers are indeed ‘condensing boilers’ they rarely, if ever, run in condensing mode. Even this is understandable, given that human nature demands that when cold, you want to warm up as quickly as possible, and people want to practically burn their hands on a stinging hot radiator to prove to themselves that their heating system is on. This video helps to re-educate people on how to effectively and efficiently use their condensing boiler systems. And I believe that re-education is needed, even more so with heat pumps which generally can not operate at these high flow temps. Part (and only part) of the reason why heat pumps have gained a bad reputation for being expensive to run is because people have blasted extra electricity into them in their quest for high temperature heat in short bursts. Liked and subscribed, by the way…
What is the ideal range of flow rate temperatures for a condensing boiler and the optimum operating flow rate temperature within this range?
So true re education. Just been reading the manual of my brand new Worcester Bosch combi which openly says the boiler has been delivered with the heating settings high. Then buried in the energy consumption table it says that the fabled 98.9% energy efficiency is actually achieved at 30% return temperatures, ie low. But how many people would notice that or even know what a 'low-temperature regime' is? I suppose the manufacturers fear that if they delivered the boiler set at low temperatures, new owners would complain their radiators weren't scorching hot and think the boiler wasn't working.
Entirely agree. I’ve spent so much time trying to educate friends & family that a consistent, low heat where you just adjust the target temperature during night, day & perhaps evening if you want to comfortably relax is the way to go.
When we bought our last house, we had prepayment meters for a while which were obviously awful, but gave me great awareness how much we were spending. Even though I was naive to the flow rate at that point, the constant temperature targets worked a treat. Another level again since I belatedly cottoned on to the flow rate a few years ago…
Really helpful and well explained. Thank you.
I fitted an eph controller with opentherm. The rooms are far more comfortable and the boiler runs quieter. Fairly sure it is using less fuel, but i still set the setback to a low level, about 14 degrees. I programmed every day for the times we are in, we have a fairly consistent routine. When the program temperature rises the boiler fires fairly high but soon drops down within half an hour, with the radiators only being warm. But it isnt going on at all until october, or the internal temp drops to 17 deg. 😂
I've taken a different approach. We live in South Australia and the winters here are mild (we don't get snow), but still cold. Our house is double brick, with lots of insulation in the roof and triple glazed windows. We have a large solar array on the roof. I considered batteries, but our main use of power is heating in the winter and so we have 3 Heat Banks. A Heat Bank is a simple device. An electric element is surrounded by a thermal mass (Magnesite bricks). 2 of our Heat Banks are charged during the day by the solar array and give up their latent heat during the evening. The third (largest) heat bank is charged during the night using off peak power and gives up stored heat during the day. The hot water system is a Heat Pump run on a timer, so it only runs during the day when the solar panels are generating power and we only run the dishwasher, washing machine and dryer during the day. The system has worked well for us.
Triple glazed windows, I'm jealous!
Impressive.
Firstly, don't stop doing these videos it really brings these important points to people's attention, any comments of mine is subject to discussion ;-). I had one comment to add/make, when intermittent heating with a lower delta t you will have a lower heat loss, I'm thinking can i be bothered to calculate this for my own home. Anyway many years ago i just used to give advice on heating as you put it about occupancy e.g. if your home a lot then underfloor is brilliant, if your at work all day and out on weekends then radiators or fan coils (love fan coil). A test was carried out with heat pumps in same house types, one ran at a constant 21 the other time clocked for 6 hours of the day. The one on all the time had a great SCOP compared to the other, but the other was less money to run a year (£200, at the time). Anyway all the best.
Great video and channel! Do you know where I can find controls compatable with NTI or maybe Ariston combi boilers? Seems a fools errand to learn about all of this if my local techs won't learn about it or sell me the equipment to truly control the system myself. Thanks!
Great video - as a gas Engineer with poor training it’s beneficial 👍🏻
Great videos with a lot of information. This past two years I have been looking at ways to reduce heating costs. Best Buy was an oil flow meter to let me know how much oil I was using each day. From that we have carried out simple measures to reduce heating costs significantly. Silicon between window frame and walls a benefit extra insulation around the oil burner significant saving.more loft insulation good. One way valves on vents to reduce drafts significant. Running the heating all day with out kick back was break even but house warm all day. Next steps will be more wall insulation at a big cost and a heat pump when they are matured a bit more.
Great video - thank you so much! The clearest and most balanced explanation I’ve heard so far!
This is an EXCELLENT video! A masterclass of providing real value to the viewer. Definitely worth a like 🙂
Very good indeed, but a few observations
Background - My own home is a modern double glazed insulated two storey of 100m2, high thermal mass with plastered walls downstairs, low thermal mass upstairs - Having a monitoring system which tracks temps, gas, etc., I was able to tinker and observe the response.
The Buderus gas combi runs 24/7, but actual feed temperature versus displayed was adrift -5 to -10 degrees (non-linear). Main thermostat is set at 19.5.
As installed, the pump was running full blast, I reduced it to the middle setting once I'd figured what the total required flow was (uses less power to no detriment), and time to boiler temperature was faster.
All but the main radiators were found oversized ca 40%, the main rads were changed from -9% to +9%, constant flow type thermostatic valves (minus the thermostat head for the mains) were subsequently fitted throughout so system balance is constant. Were it physically possible I'd bump the mains to +40%, the why will become clearer.
Winter temps here can fall to -20 so after adding additional insulation and playing with the system for 5 years to very good effect, some observations on setback and boiler temps for homes of high thermal mass.
Figure out your boiler cycle time, viz when the return temp ramps up, the boiler is more efficient the cooler the return, it is important.
Don't take the displayed temp as gospel, check it, and don't be concerned by the output temperature, it's the return which derives efficiency.
If reducing temps, check the cycle time when returning to normal, it is more efficient to step it up gradually, even if it takes two cycles.
eg
I know my main rads begin pushing heat back to the combi ca 18 minutes into a heat cycle - If it goes over 21 minutes I bump the boiler temp by 5c to bring the cycle back down, getting so far as 70c (in reality 60) in the last winter (-15) with considerably less gas consumed than having longer cycles.
If going away and coming back to a cold house, take it up in small bites (in my case 20 min cycles) leaving it for a half hour.
I made the same 2 week winter trip in two consecutive years, leaving the house set to 10c - First year I let it run for hours, second year took it up in stages, same time to target temperature but saved massively on gas consumed after the second trip.
:)
Bumping insulation levels made by far the greatest impact, lopping 50% off my gas consumption immediately, it's been dropping slowly ever since which has been a bonus.
I'd have loved to have fitted an opentherm board to the boiler, but it was so expensive and locked in protocols I gave up on the idea.
Good luck.
This is a great channel I'm learning a lot.
I have long espoused and operated this method. I have a programmable thermostat so I simply set the temperature for different times of the day and leave the heating on round the clock. It costs no more to keep the house relatively warm by heating constantly as opposed to letting the fabric (thermal mass) go cold and then burning loads of gas to get it back up to the desired temperature.
Thanks for this video, l have a newly installed air source heat pump and the info you have provided is just what l need, thanks again.
Here in New England, with a large home of over 2k sq. ft. It's best to leave it on steady. It's more comfortable and cost the same or less. You can turn it down at night when everyone is in bed but it doesn't make a lot of difference.
In support of your video, my ten year old medium sized 3-bed home (in central Scotland) has the condensing boiler controls permanently set for 15 hours at 19 degrees and 15 degrees overnight which lets the boiler run at peak efficiency. Prior to installing a solar PV system, I consumed only 10,500 units of gas for heating, hot water and cooking but this has further reduced by 2,000 units since I installed a solar PV system with an Eddi energy management unit ensuring surplus generation meets the bulk of the hot water load for nine months of the year.
I've got a Solic immersion diverter on my 1.5kW solar array on my boat and I'd reckon it provides all my hot water for 6 months. They're great aren't they? Only reason it doesn't do more is that I have shading issues for 3 hrs per day. Got to love free heat :-)
@@charlespleydell6746 Totally agree!
This video has helped so much I am in a housing association 1920s large roomed through terrace high ceilings large rooms and my heating bills were beyond high I am not well and home a lot and totally clueless about managing my boiler n thermostat my home was either too hot or too cold I had no idea about how to manage the hand I have a lovely housing association but never informed of anything regarding this and especially with the cost of living and rising fuel prices,I truly believe we need more information out there for pp on low income but I till I decided to google how to manage my ideal boiler n thermostat because the bills n the too hot too cold home so thank you I am going to rewatch again 🙏🏻🔥🥶
Very informative and well presented.
Your channel deserves way more likes and subscriptions. Liked and subscribed.
Great, informative video.
I have a thick floor slab, UFH, ASHP and a home battery.
I've recently (last year) found that by running my heating up to 26 over night using my cheap electric (5.5p/kWh about to go up to 8.25p) the heat coming out of the floor slab keeps the house nice and warm up to about 6pm when the heat pump kicks in again to keep it at 20. By doing this I hardly ever need to use any peak rate electric and am saving quite a lot.
It seems completely counter-intuitive to have downstairs at its warmest whilst I'm in bed or at work but that's by far the cheapest way to run my house.
Absolutely not a supprise at all, doesn't always work if you have undersized night storage heaters and only need heat in the evening, but if you have a good size heat store (in this case your floor slab) making use of cheap rate night electricity is a no brainer.
id be curious with regards to flow rate, maintenance, etc how this works out. if the heat pump doesn't suffer efficiency loss or break down, then yes a no brainer. But since those seem to be factors it seems more like a yes brainer
Brilliant - anyone engagibg this conversation should just link here. Thanks Heat Geek!
When I bought this house 28 years ago [built 1970] 3 bed semi] I was told to leave the heating on 24/7 as it's cheaper, I tried various timed settings and it was cheaper to leave it on set at 18c.
In 2010 I had a new Baxi Solo 15kw boiler fitted,
again tried timed settings I used more gas, timed on 6.30am and off 10pm 3.5 units used, timed on at 4.30am to 10.30pm 2.5 units used , on 24/7 1.5 units used [gas meter is in cubic feet]
Unless we have very cold weather usage is pretty much the same
Running gas fire and heating I use 2.5 units per day, gas fire on around 12 hours and has an input of 6.85kw output 4kw
The best way to see if leaving your heating on 24/7 or timed is to take week when temp and gas usage are the same then try your timed method for 3 days and leaving on 24/7 for 3 days, read your meter before and after each , also turn your boiler temperature setting down to the minimum it will work on, if it numbered 1 to 6 set it to number 1, if it just has an arrow find the best point and mark it .
This guy says houses don't normally drop below 16c , mine does, without heating it's about 5c warmer than outside
This has to be one of the best videos I’ve seen on this topic. Thank you. I was stuck in the mindset of “on and off” times, despite having a smart thermostat etc. Much food for thought as we have a reasonable thermal mass having internal brick walls, and a condensing boiler etc.
Thanks Graham. Importantly your smart stat MUST be wired via bus connection. What stat and boiler do you have?
@@HeatGeek Hi there, why is wired controllers critical please? Great channel BTW 👍🏻
@@RossTalloIf the boilert doesnt know whether the thermostats are open or not it will kick in unnecessary and waste energy.
well explained. My home is quite modern. I increased my loft insulation to 250mm. I installed hive and new radiators, bigger ones and put insulation behind radiators. Set boiler to 60'c
By using my heating as normal timed, when I am in, my boiler showed to be on about 3-4 hours on the hive trend graph. By leaving it on at 18 and bumping to 19.5 when I am in, the boiler is on for as little as 35 mins in 24 hrs. I am 100% convinced my fuel usage is so much less. I never used heating like this but its so much better, the whole heat mass of the building and every thing in it, is kept at a constant. I also use stats on all the radiators and a hive thermostat on the rad in the bedroom.
Consider changing the HIVE, the only thing it does that is smart is connect to the internet to turn your heating on and off. It doesn’t;’t allow automatic modulation of the boiler via opentherm (presuming you have a modern boiler).
Brilliant even for heating engineers 👍
Thanks for a educated unbiased explanation. I've been into heating since 60s dip67 didn't even need electrics, gravity heating /hotwater clockwork 7 day timer ,more a electronics engineer than gas fitter at retirement. From over engineered vailliants to camping quality French/Italian appliances, rule of thumb as you said bigger hse bigger the bill. Personally pushing heatpumps like diesel cars now electric government wrong.
Really useful video , and all the others, thanks !
I'm wondering about an air source heat pump and concerned about noise pollution, is the noise reduced when running more gently trickling heat into the house rather than flat out for short periods of time. Or is the noise primarily the heatpump fan and would that be running at the same speed no matter what? Interested to hear if anyone has any experience of this.
Thank you for this video. Just having to have a new combi installed and will use this to inform how i set the hive going forward!
Ah! Donr watch our smart stat video what ever you do!
Damn! When you finally got to the bit I was interested in, you referred me to other videos LOL! I was here for the debate between heat loss and thermal mass in a low efficiency building and how/where/why to set your setbacks and boost routines. I'll follow a few more videos :) Cheers.
I do !!! I watched your boiler flow videos I made 700 litre of kero last over a year filled in April this year and not used a drop since delivery but I don’t use the boiler to heat hot water but my stat is set at 21 degrees in winter 24/7 and with boiler flow at around 48 degrees flow temp so boiler is always condensing it was totally set up wrong and I’m saving big money all down to these videos !!!
Great video as always. Can send this to our customers. We’re on a mission to reduced heating curves on heat pumps.
We live in a 1989 built brick interior walls house. We had an air source heat pump fitted in July by a reputable firm Cotswold Energy. It took them 5 days as there is lagged copper piping coming in through house and under floorboards and then through to a wall in the airing cupboard tank. The airing cupboard has lots of dials and levers and piping in it. We've lost one drying shelf as the tank is bigger... it's toasty in there so I can still hang up my wet housecoat from showering daily and wet towel on hair washing days. The gas was disconnected. Therefore we only pay one (electricity) standing charge. We had double to triple glazing done in August which also kept out some of the sweltering heat we had briefly that month. We finished adding maximum loft insulation a week ago. Checked on 25th November before that and we had 6.2kw of hot water/radiators use to every 1kw of energy drawn in that month. So that's 600% efficiency not the 400% we were told we would get when we had house surveyed and only needed one swop to a larger radiator in one room . Compare that with gas at only 90% efficiency! You are told to keep heating on day and night to ensure the system runs properly and we keep it at 18-19 during day and drop it to 17-18 overnight. Bill was £140? In November when heat was on every day and night and that includes keeping one EV car charged. The great thing about the heat pump is that the hot water is pumped harder out of the larger (than previously) tank in the airing cupboard which means we are doing away with both electric showers which just guzzle electricity much more than anything else inside the house. As we can now have shower head system directly from the taps. (For a few weeks between getting rid of leccy shower and getting heat pump the new shower from taps system just dribbled out.) I was dead against going from gas to electricity from the pump due to the High cost £8.5k after the £5k subsidy but we now get much more heat for less cost. I also need to say our leccy was fixed Dec 2021 to Dec 22 at 5p/kw for 4 hour night time cheap leccy and 28p/kw all other time. With Octopus. So bills will rise. It was that cheap cos we have an electric car. Next month it's going up to 12p and 45p. We have 12 panel of solar on roofs facing east and west not south and battery but only get say 1.2 kw produced per day in winter. Most of the year we don't get anywhere near what we need despite filling battery up for cheap during the night. If we had more roof space we would have more solar and more battery as the battery only stores 6kw and can only release 3.5 kw which is why 8.5-10kw showers were draining the battery and using the grid simultaneously. We have had a gadget called Eddi from My Energy fitted in the airing cupboard which will on the rare occasions in the summer when the battery is full divert excess energy when the battery is full to heating the water in the auring cupboard tank, rather than get the tiny 5p/kw money back from handing it back to the Grid. (PS We are down to 400% efficiency now it's blardy freezing.)
A brilliant informative video
Great info. Thanks
Fantastic info, just come across your channel.
Unfortunately we have a house that has electric underfloor heating throught the entire house.
Qe since a boiler for hot water and towel radiators.
Any advice on best way to be energy efficient with whole house electric UFH?
Thanks for your videos
Jase
Really good video. I'm very difficult to please, but this was really great. Thanks.
what a well informed video I just changed my controls to TADO so looking to temper my home warmth while I am out working.. Thanks 😀😃😁
Thanks for another great video we found the slow heating method has worked well since installed tado smart radiator and boiler controls compared with normal 12 year old gas boiler on and off style and our gas bill dropped as well that was a shock
I live in a 2 bedroom , Victorian, stone built gable end terrace - I have tested this over time in terms of how much my gas bill is and found keeping my several years old Baxi Combi Boiler on 24/7 in winter to maintain an average temp of 20* costs no more than switching it off overnight & off again during the day whilst out at work
Interesting but can't understand why you need a temp as high as 20C?
@@Thursdaym2 why not.
I find 17° temperature positively tropical 🏝. At the moment I’m putting it on for 1 hour a day to take the chill off the air….I set it to 15°, with a hot water bottle I’m toasty
It's very true I left mine on 24 hrs to test the theory of a workmate and my gas bill was no higher than when I turned it on and off.
@@zane___k7333 Why do you need 20c? Put a sweater on and do some exercise, maybe just walking around the house. Am sorry if you are not physically able to do that. I am 83, my wife is 77 and we have no problem with lower home temperatures.
Great video. I've found with my new condensing boiler it uses less if kept running with small drops in internal temp - and a 60c flow temp. If I ran it like an old boiler (2hrs am, off all day, on in eve) then it used loads of gas and the exhaust would boost right out in a big cloud. If I run it continuously it seems to stay in the condensing mode more where it barely uses any gas and the exhaust steam barely 'dribbles' out. I use less gas and the house seems warmer.
Yeh I run mine all the time I believe my flow is at 70 and I very rarely noticed the radiators being hot as the boiler just ticks over instead of flat out then off.
Brilliant, thanks. I am retired and have recently installed an air-source heat pump, which we run at a higher temperature during the day. It has made our lives so much more comfortable. Now we plan to make the house (1900, solid-walled, detached) as energy efficient as possible - so I will be watching more of your videos. Sadly your map shows that Cambridge is not a place where Heat Geeks are active!
Bit of a black hole around there at the moment!
@@HeatGeek Also North Wales!
Very informative. Thanks
Very nica comparison between main heating methods. Thank you! 👍
We have a Geothermal GSHP and constant is the way to go with this system. The reason is going from say 68F to 72F will cause the 'toaster heat' to activate. So steady state is the way to go with our system.
Absolutely no clue now! Too many variables - if only there was a website that took all these in to account and gave you best advice
Great eye opener thanks
Thanks I have learned a lot
Hello great videos,can you tell me what thermostat should i use for underfloor heating?
Super useful! Thanks!
I use schedules, sensors and presence indicators (is the TV on in the room?) to change target temps. Different rooms have different targets at different times of the day. Last time I intervened and touched the heating was April to turn the flow temp down to 45*C for summer. Before that it was months and that was a reboot to add a new feature to the system.
Normally, when I'm out all day at work, I have a morning and an evening schedule which sets those "setback temps" as you call them, to "medium", a few degrees cooler than "comfortable". Outside of those times the setback temps down another few degrees, ending up around 16*C when the house is vacant, idle or overnight. If a room is in use (TV on), the temp goes to "comfort" level in that room, say 20*C for the office, 19*C for the living room, 18*C for the bedroom. The rest of the house is "unzoned" but has TRVs set to 2 or 3 and 5 in the bathroom.
The balance I am running is with the thermal mass, I'm not really heating up the brick/block work, so I'm just getting air temp up and when the heating goes back off, the brickwork quickly absorbs that heat. Given my heat loss issues explain in another comment, I'm kinda stuck this way for now. An idea did cross my mind to more directly heat the brick work, just like a coal fire would have. Not quite sure the cheapest way to achieve that. Blasting the heating won't do it, the building loses too much too fast over 20*C. Direct heat is dangerous as it's got wall paper.
Anyway with prices as they are this autumn. I'm setting my minimum temps down to 14*C and setting up humidity monitoring, heating to lower RH in "emergencies" and weather compensation to try and avoid damp due to ambient temp/pressure changes. At 14*C you are right on the damp line so humidity becomes very important.
How are you achieving all that out of interest? Smart TRVs?
Great video. I have a four storey Georgian town house with an ancient gas boiler and traditional rads. Very expensive to run 😭
@HeatGeek the reason I use setback on a heated floor is so that when I go to bed or wake up, or when I hang out in a living room, the floor is actually warm. So I drop the temperature by 2C during night, or during working hours, just so that I can start recovering slowly when I want actually a warm floor.
Very well explained
I've run my condensing combi 24/7 for years now, before, when I would run it in the morning and evening I found doing so would create the perfect situation for mould, the walls of the house would cool down causing condensation to form on them when the heating was turned on. Sometimes I could never get the house warm enough to reach my bones because the walls would act as one big heat sink. Thanks, Heat Geeks.
I've just replaced my 40-year-old non-condensing combi boiler which I used to run twice a day only, in the classic way. When I was WFH I was so cold in the 'off' times that I got desperate, and I'd wake up to a lake of condensation on every single-glazed window. A search on the internet suggested to run the boiler all day long at a lowish temperature (in my case 18-19 deg). With much trepidation and anxiety about what I thought would be bigger gas bills, I switched the boiler to be on all day long. My life changed totally. Finally I was comfortable, the condensation stopped (mostly because the internet also told me to open each window a tiny amount (1-2mm literally) to get decent ventilation, and my gas bills *still* went down 30%. Obv I was thrilled. But it's such an effort to convince family to do the same. They are stuck on twice-a-day heating and not comfortable. Glad Heat Geek and others are getting the word out.
Great video. We have a 30's house, but refurbished and generally very well insulated and double glazed. We have a condensing gas boiler and the house heats up very quickly. I was interested though in your comment about the overnight temperature generally not dropping below 16. We live on the south coast (Sussex), so it's quite mild, and we're often down to 14 -15 overnight in winter. What should I look for first for heat loss? Loft is insulated so not sure where we're losing it...
I think Roger and Vicky know each other.
Glad I watched this, Just started a bit of a project... 1830's house with Stone staircase, I hadn't considered the Thermal inertia of those stairs or the thick walls.
I think the house would benefit from steady state heating - but need to figure out a control set up for the boiler - Where do I start?
(no heatGeeks in my area of Montrose, Angus and the 1 in arbroath's website is down.)
Check out Plumbing & Renewables Ltd in Elgin if it's not too late. I met these guys on a training course recently and they know their stuff. They will definitely travel to Montrose.
What are your thoughts on turning down our (2) living room rad t/stats to 16C in the evening and using our 84% efficient cavity wall gas fireplace in the living room to solely heat that room as we only need it on for about 10 mins on high flame and then on low flame for 15 mins and then turn it off and the room stays very warm for quite a while. The walls are cavity insulated and we have about 300mm of loft insulation? Thanks
I´m liking this channel. well done guys. do you have anyone in Barcelona? I have a Masia and am planning on putting air-water for underfloor and also air-air. also a big huge log fire integrated. I know very little, and maybe am being too ambitious, but your channel gives me confidence
Truly great advice, Thank you! Trying to get my head round this…
I have recently had a Viessman 100-W Combi installed, the fitter only understood on/off controls and he made it very clear I was wasting my time when discussing load or weather compensation. The setup is in a Victorian semi, mostly radiators but has a one zone u-floor heating in the rear extension which has its own pump + 2 port zone valve. My question re weather comp is, if the system is on all the time does that mean the pump for the U-floor heating will need to be on permanently? If not where would this now get switched from? I assume this would no longer be the role of the thermostat. Many thanks in advance and keep the great advice coming!
on / off control are maybe right for weather compensation you need to select the right heating curve for your house. weather compensation work better for heat pump and I think for underfloor heating as well.
@@CrashUK28 Thanks for your response. For now I have modified the setup to Load compensation employing the Opentherm interface using a 2-zone Honeywell T6R solution. I will spend some time learning from this for now.. As you allude too, this solution may be a better for a (lossy) home with mostly radiators. Next step is to look at finely balanc the system 👍
I installed a slab in the centre of my living room. In the middle of the slab I have a grate where I burn waste plastic. It’s super warm 👍🏻. Smoke and gases are moved outside through the windows by employees wafting A4 cardboard sheets in that direction.
Another excellent video, I do think there are those amongst us though that may still struggle to get it given they may have basic on off systems that go full pelt during the timed period. My parents don't even have a room thermostat. I understand it fully but any chance of a more basic version with less big words lol.
The subject just is complex. And I'm glad people are starting to realise so, so they will listen to the pros.. hence advising to call a heat geek
@@HeatGeek yep got one going out to my parents tmrw based on your advice for the boiler etc. Please do an even simpler video if possible as I like the car accelerator analogy. Some people will still struggle with the depth. Towards the end even I was seeing double lol but it's late.
Very good this should be helping a lot of people.
Great video. Thanks
Thanks for this information,
How should you factor this into heating your water? Currently my heatpump is running at a low flow temperature for heating but still only needs to be running a few hours a day to heat the property to temperature. However when it kicks in for water twice a day it'll output closer to 55c for 30mins.
Excellent and explicit vid as always) just one question though I have a heat pump without weather compensation facility I would like to fit an analogue 3 port valve with a weather compensation control with optimal start ( for the increased temperature during the day) Yes I am retired, In days of your Satchwell and Stafa used to offer such stand alone controls (they were very good) if you Google such controls now there is very very little available .......could this be a business opportunity?
Holy shot. This is solid advice, explained fairly simply!
Very good info well done 👍
Thank you great video explained so well
Regards Steve
U.K. London
My new build has a hive thermostat. I noticed from your videos you don’t recommend them. Should I change to a nest system.
Interesting video thanks for sharing. Quite a complicated subject isn't it? It would be great to be able to test solid state heating vs 'on demand heating' say by using one method over a week and the other over another week and comparing total energy used but it's not that simple? Of course external temperature would vary significantly unless you live somewhere where the weather is constant, not the UK! It might be 15c one week and 5c the other! Cheers.
Great idea/question
The channel I've been praying for. I have a 3 bed semi detached new build from 2015and has always been confused when the temperature numbers come into play on the thermostat. In winter I've always been confused with what to set my digital thermostats wall controls to before it becomes "you have the heating too high". I always putt it at about 21.5c but often still feels cold, but I worry going higher is basically like having the tap on at full blast. What is a good number to aim for before it's too high if you want to save money on bills?
The lowest your comfortable at. You'll find that as you reduce your flow temperature and elingate your heating times you'll be more comfortable at lower temperatures though. Watch the "mustbwatch before buying a smart stat" video that will be your biggest life change for comfort and cost
I think the _worst_ option is to set the heating too high - So that it gets too warm.
The bigger the temperature differential from inside to outside, the higher the rate of transfer.
Some people will set their radiators to 6, thinking it gets warmer faster. But instead it just makes it uncomfortable warm inside. I find that setting to 1 or 2 makes the room about 20*c
sounds like your flow temperature is too high
Sounds like you have not discovered thermostat despite is 21 century
Another great video
live in a council house and our gas boiler, condensing, is controlled by a thermostat in the coldest part of the house and is on all the time heating as required
I agree. I was recommended to have an on for daytime and off at night. Summer adjust the thermosat. For advanced digital systems set 2 temperature.
Thanks for trying to bring a bit of science to this. Really surprised that gas boilers
are less efficient at high temperatures.
Something further to consider about heat pumps. In the 3 coldest months the overnight temperature is very cold and a heat pump will be very inefficient. It makes sense to maximise the heat pump operation to the times of the day when the temperature is higher.
If the house has photovoltaic then that needs to be considered as well.
I think some geeky person needs to build models that takes all relevant factors into account (including the effect of outside temperature on efficiency). I might try it myself for heat pumps.
Interesting video!....I too have the missus thermostat control, its a bit temperamental though :-)
Thanks for the video, now I'm more confused.
I have radiators with condensing boiler in a semi detached house. We're home all day and have thermostat in one room. Do I heat intermittently or continuously?
Maybe it's a good idea to put a little calculator on the website that gives the answers given the variables entered.
Another great video. Seriously considering heat pumping the house now!
Heat pump it!
Look at the vids on heat pumps. Not done properly they can be an *expensive* mistake.
good job, when i set room thermostat to e.g. 23 degrees then what temperature should i set in boiler flow temperature
When I had my radiant system and new boiler installed, my plumber explained that if he did his calculations correctly, during heating season, our boiler should run at some percentage of its capacity 24 hours a day. After 10 years, I have to say he got it right. The home had been more comfortable than I could have imagined. More insulation may have led to cycling and less efficiency. We’re dealing with a 150 year old home that we added insulation to while the heating system was being upgraded. Adding more insulation would have been a lot more expensive due to complications of reality. I think we found the balance point between paying for fuel and/or insulation. In the future, more insulation may be the better pay off. But that depends on the cost of labor to do it.
i am in a 1960's bungalow, with mitsubishi ecodan. it was set to run on timer 20 during morning and evening and 18 at night. The cop was only just above 2. When i set it to run by compensation curve the pump runs all day. Will this be more efficient and cheaper to run?
Brilliant video. I am now of the steady state mindset as I went to the 2 degree set back temperature routine a few years ago (17 degrees over night and 19 degrees during the day) and it did cost a little more, maybe 5-10% but the house is so much more comfortable and was advised that this was a much better way for my condensing boiler to run. Just for info I live in a large 1920’s house which isn’t very well insulated.
Sounds like you could do woth a weather compensator.. it should have not used much more gas really
@@HeatGeek, thanks for the info, I’ll look into that 👍🏻
If you are finding it very expensive to heat your home this winter, you might consider a 12,000 to 18,000 Btu ductless heat pump, as that is the most energy efficient way to heat your home. And it will also provide low cost cooling in the summer if you want that too. Modern ductless units are almost silent, and they don't cost much to run.
There are many variables including the evening cost for electricity. The main point is that hot objects lose heat energy faster than cool ones so simple thinking is cool is good. Here in N. Ontario I keep the night-time temp set at 15.5 C, day at 18 C and evening at 18.5 C. Our former inefficient gas furnace (air ducts) was still running well after 45 years of use. Our present gas-condensing furnace has functioned well for 15 years despite the morning chug. The true test is to experiment with different homes and heating systems comparing energy cost and equipment costs over the long haul.
Excellent stuff. Really clear and well explained. Why don't more people just tell it like it is, calmly, without sensationalism and trying to sell us something!!
BUT, What no search facility on the website? (thought I'd look up more about weather compensation versus room controls..)
thankyou! There's a search butting top right!
www.heatgeek.com/?s=weather+compensation