Is It Cheaper to Leave Your Heating on Constantly?
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- Опубликовано: 27 сен 2024
- Should you be running your heating constantly or are you better off using your timer?
Roger gives us his money-saving advice to reduce your fuel bills this winter.
Energy myth-busting with Money Saving Expert:
The energy market is in crisis. There are no cheap energy deals due to record wholesale prices (what providers pay), so using less is the best way to save right now. There are obvious ways to cut your usage, such as wearing jumpers and turning lights off, but this guide aims to crack the less-obvious energy conundrums, including if it's cheaper to keep your heating on low all day, or whether painting your radiators black can help.
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The best strategy is to holiday in Siberia in the winter, you'll come back to the UK and be running around in shorts and T-shirt saying "this weather is wonderful!"
Try tomorrow morning’s temperature in Chicago 4f for the rest of the world -15c
I wear shorts everyday.
@Random somebodies in a mood
Save yer money mate. No need for Siberia - just have a cold shower every morning.
After you’ve woken up the neighbours with your screams, turned off the tap and dried yourself down, you’ll feel fantastic - and warm all over!
They probably have cheaper heating costs in Siberia...
I have kept weekly records for the last 7 years in Inverness in a detached 3 bedroom house. Prior to the 2021/22 winter, I used to have the gas central heating on in winter from 6am to 10pm and off at night. This year I left it on 24 hours and the peak gas usage looks like it has only gone up by around 6%. The double glazed windows are now condensation free in the morning and the bathroom is warm thru the night. I reckon the extra 6% is worth the extra comfort.
Agreed central heating kept on 24-hours a day on low keeps the house Warm of condensation moisture around windows
There is no such thing as a free lunch.
The condensation comes from moisture in the air. If moisture is a problem where you live, it's cheaper and much more practical to use a dehumidifier rather than a heat pump or central gas heat. I have a big two story house, about 1,700 square ft. Except for nights when I sleep upstairs, I am downstairs on my computer, about 10 ft. away from my dehumidifier. The difference in my indoor humidity, as measured by the gauge on my dehumidifier is tremendous. Depending on the season, if shut off, it can measure 80% (I'm in Florida) but if I turn it on, two/three days later it is down to about 40%. Very comfortable indoors with no condensation on the windows, ever. The dehumidifier is cheaper to run, quieter, and simply takes the water out of the air and purifies the air additionally. If I run it constantly, which I don't because on beautiful days I like to leave the sliding door open, my bill will jump maybe $25 or so a month. If I relied on my heat pump or a/c, it would be much more than that. The unit keeps the whole house drier. Additionally, if the heat is only turned on to keep the very uncomfortable cold off, it can be used for 10 minutes a few times a day and the rest of the time a sweater or layered clothes is adequate. During the night, a very low setting will keep the pipes from freezing if you live in the north. We can do with a lot less heat and a/c than we do, for lower bills.
@@yellowbird5411 excellent point about the dehumidifier
Heating on at night gives me a headache, unless I leave the bedroom window open which would be expensive anyway.
I have a solid wall (3 brick thickness) 1750's house, 3 storey, when I moved in the coal fired back boiler had 15mm copper pipe circulating pipework and an ordinary circ pump, the result was the first rad got warm, after that the rest were luke warm, so that was the first lesson learned, It could have never have worked in a million years. I ripped out the back boiler and started afresh.
28mm copper pipework I fitted throughout the 3 storey house and a bit of that pipework actually had to go into the cellar as well. I bought a used Ideal standard Mexico cast iron 60,000 btu boiler in about 1995 and coupled it with a good circulating pump. It took me the best part of a year, part time, to install all the 28mm pipe and new rads. The boiler lasted until last year when the sheet metal casing was starting to fall apart and the cast iron flutes in the boiler chest were breaking up, but more importantly the burner unit was shot. These mexico boilers were one of the favourite's of the old heating engineers, simple, rugged and easy to work on and gave up to 30 years life. I used it purely on the boiler thermostat setting, which had a dial setting of 1 to 6 and under normal winter conditions I left it on 1, and if it went to -5C outside, put it on setting 2, but very, very rarely on 3. It was a brilliant boiler, no fans, no programmer, no expansion tank and all the unreliable bells and whistles of combi boilers which last about 8 years before costing serious money. Anyway, my dear old, trusty mexico was done for, what do I do? The trade was telling me those cast iron Ideal Mexico's are condemed, 'you should not be using it'. I was faced with fitting a Combi, which I really did not want to do due the cost, and short life of the components. Well, for the first time in my life I got lucky, and just generally browsing on ebay I came across an Ideal Standard Mexico II cast iron Boiler, Brand new, which was found in the back of a plumbers merchants stock room. I spent a week agonising, waiting for the auction to end, and finally, I bought it for £50, plus a trip to sheffield to collect. It worked perfectly, all clean and shiney, except that I took the front panel off and that heats my workshop a bit. I am all set for the next 20 years with my heating, unless of course the gas suppliers start pumping hydrogen through the gas pipes?
What a fantastic piece of nostalgia and a wonderful example of how things used to be built to last. The potterton kingfisher floor standing boiler was definitely in the same class . Hardly anything to go wrong with them.
I love the fact that you bought your upgrade via an eBay auction for a bullseye. Fair play to you sir 👍.
New floor standing mexicos can set you back a couple of grand. Water content in 28 mm pipe is on the large side, but so what. Suitably impressed David 👍👍👍👍
about 15 years ago we looked at an old stone house barn conversion in France owned by a Dutchman. He used oil central heating which he had on 24/7 but set very low so you could grip the radiators if you wanted to. This he maintained was to provide a constant background heat into the uninsulated stone walls which acted as a heat sink providing a background heat into the room. It seemed to work very well and the house was always warm - despite its cathedral, cavernous interior. I've used the same technique ever since whilst living in France.
France was the only place I did a test like this and it really surprised me, I lived in the south and we had terrible electric heaters in an old town house with basically zero insulation but cheap electric in the afternoons and at night.
I used to run it on timers the first year and then the second year decided to test the difference early December over two very similar weeks weather wise. 24/7 beat the timers by roughly 10% and over the next couple of months as it became colder, the energy uses continued to drop to somewhere between 15-20%.
Masonry absorbs heat. When you turn off the heating, then the room temperature become lower than the walls, then the wall gives off heat back to the room. It is called _thermal mass._ So heat convects into the wall pushing back to the outside of the wall the line between hot and cold.. When the heat is off this line moves back towards the room. If the heating is on 24/7 the whole wall may become warm, then acting as a heat sink - wasting heat pouring excessive heat to outside. If the heating switched off for a time during the night when the heat moves back into the room, less heat is lost to outside.
@@johnburns4017
You are probably correct, although why in my situation would you turn it off at night during the five hours while electricity was half price?
In terms of units, I had been using 60 per week on timers, it went down to 53 when 24/7, then I got addicted to taking a reading every Saturday morning and during the coldest weeks in January/February it had dropped to 48/49 per week.
I was amazed.
@@morourke2561
The thinner the wall the more it is not worth 24/7 operation. The thicker, the more heat is absorbed.
Interesting! This heat sink effect has been known for a long time but not not exploited enough. I heard of an office building built years ago that had a moat of big rocks around it.
Warm air was pumped via a heat exchanger around the offices. All computer controlled. In Turkey they use a lot of concrete frames in house construction. This gives a lot of thermal mass. So that houses are not as cold as they would otherwise be on colder nights.
That cold call is an automated computer, usually starts with something like ‘ Hi I’m Roger, your local energy advisor’. It listens to the reply to the questions - always answer ‘No’ when it asks if you’re the home owner, or be prepared to be bombarded with further calls!
Back in 1985 me and the wife bought our ist house, 1930's semi with solid walls -no cavity. We lasted 2 winters before we put central heating in operating on a timer. On twice a day, best money spent ever. Prior to this in winter you got up for work and out the door asap, coming home who ever was in first put 2 gas fires on full and cooked the tea in your coat until house warmed up. I've spent 10K having my next house clad in exterior insulation (1960's house also no cavity) so time will tell about constant 18 deg heat in day time 20 evening operating on thermostat which is my option with a kitchen lounge with under flloor heating. God help the pensioners next winter.
1960s and no cavity? Seems odd.
Only jerry builders were building non cavity houses in the 60s. I thought building regs banned this well before. My father designed and built a bungalow in 1954 with cavity walls.
How many people can tell what a cavity construction is or even care and buy a house with their eyes shut.
no, the temperature loss from a house is proportional to the temperature difference (inside temp vs outside temp). by having your house constantly at a higher temperature your will have greater constant heat loss(heat flowing to outside). heat flow is like electrical current flow. you need a voltage difference to get a current flow. the more voltage results in a bigger difference and therefore more current. running your house a few c colder will result in lower heat flow to the outside, once upto temp your boiler then needs to match the heat loss to maintain the temperature. lower the heat loss the less your boiler has to run.
This! How people think it could be cheaper to leave it on all the time I do not know. Nice and warm and cosy yes but never cheaper
Spot on!
@@HIYAharry Basically it's about to be warm and cosy. Few more quid per season makes such a difference? Not really. I always kept constant temperature. Once the walls will warm up there is not that much energy needed to keep the temperature on the same level. My boiler keeps going for short periods of time and work within 35 - 50 deg.
@@HIYAharry Not so if you have a heat pump. Look at my detailed reply in this thread, we have run 24/7 this Winter, vs. on and off last Winter. Our heat pump efficiency has increased by over 25% vs last year and we have actually used less energy overall by running it constantly. This is measured exactly, it's not guesswork.
@@basiltozer9078 Exactly. Hours on full power.
Great advice. We had an oil boiler in a 50's semi and found if we kept at 16, we never needed to tweak with it but the bill was around £45. Now moved a mid 2000 build and bills are £75 (soon £150) and the heat retention is terrible (as described brilliantly in the video), but could probably make some savings easier, so I just think heating is an expensive luxury and is up to the person to decide what they think is 'cheaper' to them, to live in a temperate home and pay a bit more, or try to be cost efficient but maybe not have a temperate home most of the time. Best of luck to people with their bills this year.
My Sister has a brand new house all AAA insulation etc and it's Feb, freezing outside and she put's it on for about 30 in the morning. She say the house gets so warm she have to use fans to cool it down.
I wish my house worked that way I can have my heating on full blast 30+c and thermometers all over the house confirm the temp. If I turn the heating off the temp just drops like a stone within 20mins down to 20c then 18c. My house has cavity wall insulation, loft insulation, insulated wallpaper. I have insulated all the hot pipes, even put insulation between the joists between the bottom floor ceiling and upstairs floors. The boiler works fine and gets a yearly check. The rads all get hot, from top to bottom, It's like living in a fridge. I have double glazing, use thick thermal curtains & thermal blinds behind those, bubble wrap on the glass. The house does get hot but just does not hold it. I have given up using my central heating. it's pointless.
It's layers of warm cloths and a blanket to keep warm.
Every man has the same problem.. The Mrs says she's freezing cold and "the heating needs switching on and cranking up", even though it's hotter than the equator indoors.
Opposite here lol my misses is always red hot 😁🙈
Had the same problem, disconnected the mechanical thermostat and covertly fitted an electronic programmable stat in an enclosure.the sensor for the programmable stat was in the mechanical stat.
The wife wasn't aware of this mod and she still kept cranking the old mechanical stat up.😂😂😂
Women only understand how most men feel (hot) all their lives once they (women) reach the menopause!
Greetings from Poland. 🇵🇱 When I am listening your lectures I wonder were your ancestors Polish. You really look like Pole with British angry face. :)
God bless and nice videos !
Lots of factors to consider. We have great insulation, underfloor heating and missus is working from home so we never touch it.
Same here. I have 200mm pir underneath the slab and the house is SIPS construction. We have found we used less last winter by keeping it on and never letting the slab cool.
Witchers don't get cold surely
Very interesting , as ever. When you get oldish, we are 74/75 you do feel the cold more. I have a 1977 house insulated as much as possible ,without digging floors up or demolishing the house. For 44 years we had an Ideal floor mounted CF 80K boiler. Gravity HW pumped CH. Brilliant and reliable , one thermocouple, cost few poinds. Now we have a WB 03i erp pumped HW/CH . The house warms quickly but the TRVs bang because the flow is opposite to my old boiler. We feel nice and warm but use the same amount of gas but less CO2. I will never recover the £4295 it cost to install though. If you have an old reliable boiler , keep it.
Similar to us really.
Has your boiler got a basic on/off thermostat? If so it will be barely any more efficient than your old boiler. You’ve got a high efficiency boiler but without load/weather compensation it’ll be running too hot to condense.
@@thomassmith7819 although weather compensation will get the most efficiency from his new boiler, even if not condensing fully, it will still be circa 20% more efficient than the old boiler. I would try setting the boiler thermostat to 70 degrees, especially if the house insulation has been improved since the old system was installed. I wouldn't expect the direction of flow to have changed just because the system is now fully pumped.
We have a 1988 Potterton Kingfisher boiler which only needs a new pump every 15-20 years and a litre of inhibiter every 10 - 15 years.
The Ideal combi which my son has was 15 years old and was replaced recently with a GlowWorm combi. The Ideal was nothing but trouble needing parts every few years.
@@fivish That's very good that the Ideal combi lastest that long, any combi that lasts more than 10 years is doing well, Vaillants probably have the longest life of any boiler, system or Combi. The inhibitor needs testing every two years and after 5 years it's probably not doing very much, in an old cast iron boiler this is not an issue, the main issue is sludge and corrosion radiators, but the main concern with old system is the design and positioning of the Open Vent and Cold Feed, not may old systems are "sealed systems".
Thank you - well explained. Here is the answer slightly more mathematically (without the equations)
It is simple physics - the amount of energy to heat your house is fundamentally based on the temperature between the outside and inside and the insulation over all the surfaces of the house. Simple, it is fundamental (since your insulation does not change day to day), the difference between the temperature difference. So if you turn off the heating at night, then the temperature difference is lower so lower energy loss - simple. Heat capacity (the thermal mass), only affects the hysteresis (delay of heat changes) and comfort to you. You save energy by : improve the insulation or turn down the temperature at any point in the day - so reducing the temperature gradient - the integral over time of temperature difference.
There is one additional factor - drafts - which can cause forced cooling - just assume if you get rid of drafts (without creating condensation), then your reduce cooling.
Just remember - solar gain does not change - it heats your house, regardless of the temperature inside. It is useful to hear your house but does not change the fundamental issue that energy required to heat the house is directly proportional to the of the temperature difference.
Rain causes increased loss by evaporation from the walls, but again, that is a problem as it cools the house, but that cooling is the same regardless.
Here is the equation : Q=U*A*ΔT (Q = heat, A = area (ie the sum of walls), U = the insulation value (which varies enormously - windows are 10x worse than a wall, and finall "delta-temperature" the difference in temperature).
You don't hear an awful lot about thermal gradients these days. Basic building technology stuff at college in the eighties though
It's cheaper to switch it of and f##kk of to the pub, where they have a roaring open fire,,🥳
Who else has been so cold they used an opened oven on full blast to warm the room up?
This video came up tonight even though it was recorded a year ago but your comments re being in control of our heating are spot on. On 14th March 2024 we had a mini heat wave in Derby - 15 degrees so I didn't switch the heating on all day!!
"just keep moving, keep exercising"
Great life advice
Saw in the news an energy boss had to apologise for saying this
Have people forgotten all the water saving advice?
The whole world should be singing from the same sheet: consume less, live more
I get this -thanks for video. We have an air to heat pump - with double / triple layer radiators. Installed from new 10 years ago into a one off 4 bed detached which had to meet certain environmental performance levels to get planning permission. I get what is being said here - but at the extreme end of the scale there are things we have learnt - and the main one is do not treat a heat pump like a gas boiler. So in the early years over winter it would be everything off at night. We would come down at 0610 and switch heating on. By the time we were feeling the difference we were off to work and switched it off again. So now we will set thermostat overnight to say 16C (for example). Depending on the outside ambient temperature the pump may fire a few times in the night, but the object is to keep the pump pipes warm and the internal ambient temp at least 16C. Then when we raise the temp to 18/19 at 0610 there is a nice rise in temp noticeable quickly. So we do leave our pump "on" 24/7 in the winder, but it is not running all the time, it is just ready to catch the daytime and night-time preferred temp. For hot water we run it in the warmest part of the day and store the hot water for later. Mark,.
I’m a semi retired contractor near Chicago and find your perspective very interesting because of the differences in practice and environment factors
We have our gas central heating on timed. On at 05.45, half hour before rising, off at 21.00 just before we go to bed. My partner works from home as a beautician, so heat has to be on most of the day. After much fiddling with timer and TRV's we found that an initial boost to 20c in the morning until 8am then it's set to 19c until 10am then 18c until 3pm then increasing back up to 18 and 19c later in the afternoon/evening. Works perfectly. We are in rented house, old 1970's rads :( poor loft insulation, some sort of blown cavity insulation and thankfully double glazed. New Baxi boiler 1 year old (not the best I have to say). Large 4 bed house, cold kitchen, large hallway. Keeping room doors closed helps. We have unused room rads on low. We found that 24/7 heating made it very stuffy at night and I can't sleep when it's too hot & stuffy. We keep the most often used rooms at a comfortable temperature and I'm a strict old git for having heating off 1st May until Mid October earliest lol
We found that 24/7 vs timed was costing us more.
How much are you spending per day for that?
Mate of mine has a fairly large semi and was doing the 24/7 thing, cost him ~£180 a month for gas/electric. Then his supplier went bust and he got moved to a new one. Just got his first 'new' bill... £340 !! Suffice to say he re-programmed the heating the same day, and is looking into solar heating very closely.
Watch a lot of your videos Roger and I must say that I think you are at the top of your game mate , Love em . Keep them coming , All very easy to understand , Full marks mate Cheers .
I live in a flat; most of the time I leave my heating off and rely on the the thermal gradient between me and my neighbours to keep myself comfortable.
At current UK gas prices (December 2022) it would cost you about 20 quid to keep your heating on 24 hours a day in an average insulated 4 bed detatched.
It’s cheaper to leave if off most of the time when possible. Get a hot water bottle and an extra jumper then go to sleep 🛌 Wake up the next day & go and work in someone else’s warm house 🏡 🥵
Lovely damp feeling bedding and clothes that never dry. 😔
@@TurinTuramber Great point, very true,…..I have a very well insulated castle so it retains heat and doesn’t feel damp…… I do however visit homes which are full of mould because they don’t air their homes or put on the heating combined with the moisture producing human habits ie. Bathing, cooking etc
@@TurinTuramber My house has so much damp that when I put the heating on I get condensation literally running down the walls. :-(
@@TurinTuramber dehumidifier sorts the clothes drying.
@@djtaylorutube I would put the heating on long before I run dehumidifiers!! I moved out when I was 19 so was poor and cold for many years. These days I like my comforts.
Double glazed windows are useless if gaps around them are not sealed properly. Every house I lived in I had to re-seal window frame as in chilly months I could really feel cold wind blowing on me when being next to window. In one case I could see outside through gap 🤦🏻♂️
I've got a fairly big L shaped (more external area) detached house built in the 30's with no cavity insulation. I used to run the heating on an old fashioned on/off timer, the house was hot, cold, hot, cold all the time. I switched to a modulating boiler and thermostat and leave it set to about 20 (maybe 19.8) all the time, 24/7 now... Bills didn't noticeably change at the time but the comfort level increased massively, the house is always comfortable, the radiators are warm not hot unless its absolutely freezing outside.
It may cost me a bit more, but the comfort is worth it, as an old house it takes ages to warm up too....
If it cost me a couple of hundred quid a year to be comfortable all the time that's a bargain... That said with bills as they are going we might all be sat in sleeping bags watching telly!!!
That’s interesting. We live in an old 1940s cottage with old double glazing and very little wall insulating. I think as our houses take so long to heat up, leaving the heating on all the time is the best way. It’s okay if you’ve got a house that warms up quickly - switching heating on/off works.
@@The_crumbling_cookie I have now switched to the timer and a slightly lower temperature to see if I can cut the bills. It's already noticeably less comfortable but I'll wait to see if it really has any impact on finances, it's a very worrying time!!
@@gibfear So you prefer to be uncomfortable for the sake of lower bills? Funny dude!
@@TRPGpilot I'll tolerate a slightly less comfortable house and be able to pay my bills. Can you comprehend that?
@@gibfear no, you live in a 1st world country . . .
I have been doing this leaving my heating on October to March for years and my friend had the same 4 bed house across the road and my bills for heating was lower as my house only going up down 4 degrees where his heating going off for hours then going right down then the boiler had to heat from low back up
I live in a 3 bed mid-terrace built in the 70s. in South of England. I have done my upmost to reduce heating bills over the years. Topped up my loft insulation, replaced all the windows and doors four years ago and ground floor has insulation under 12mm laminate flooring. TRVs on all but 2 rads. (bathroom and hall, where thermostat is).Cavity walls are not insulated though. Even in the current cold conditions, we are running our gas boiler (14 years old and well serviced) at 60c and set the thermostat at 19c. Heating comes on at 6am and goes off at 10pm. It only drops to 18c in the lounge overnight from about 20c during the day. We are retired, so we need the heat on all day (unless we are out). I am impressed that there is only a 2c drop in the coldest time overnight over an 8 hour period.
I tested this theory-
At one point in the past, I lived in a draughty 120 year old 2 up 2 down terraced house with part double glazing, slate roof, draughty loft with a couple of layers of loft insulation/ boards etc
I had gas central heating, which just about coped in winter, I tried 2 experiments over a week.
1. Heating timed to come on for an hour in the morning, then off all day, had good day time heat if the sun was heating through the windows. Mostly it wasn't! Then the heating came on for a couple of hours in the evening. Then off the rest of the night.
2. Manually put the heating on first thing in the morning and have it on all day and evening, turn it off before bedtime.
What I found was the heating used the most gas getting the house up to temperature from cold.
Leaving it on all day used slightly more gas but the benefit was a cosy warm house all day.
So in the week when we were at work the house was empty so we had the heating on in the morning, off all day then back on in the evening.
At weekends we left it running all day.
That seemed to be a good compromise that worked for us.
Turning it off during the day at weekends didn't actually save that much money.
Because the heating is just ticking over cutting in every so often, it's easier for the boiler to maintain a steady temp rather than having to heat up a house from cold.
I had a lot of thermal loses in that house to be fair, in the end I cut my loses and got a more modern, thermally efficient house.
Exactly as expected. :-)
Yep, you are right,
Your answer is better.
Obviously, switching the heating off, will save some fuel, because, obviously, for a time the house being colder, the heat loss will slow down.
BUT, as you mentioned, the saving will be minimal, and so, will not justify the hassle of being cold till it heats back.
The same goes for heat recovery systems. Those are damn expensive, and the heat loss for the few minutes every day opening the windows will be much cheaper than the gizmo.
Leave it on continuously and set the temperature to 14 minimum and turn it up when you need it warmer. You will keep away from the dew point and remove any damp corner mould problems
In essence your idea of running the heating all day would have worked, if you set the target temperature higher to start with and then each hour reduced it by 1 degree throughout the day, then increased by 1 degree an hour to reach a desired occupancy temperature by the time you come home. So maybe 20 by 08:00, then 19 by 09:00 and so on until you reach 15 by 01:00 and then slowly increasing again so that by 04:00 it would be 18 and by 18:00 it would be 20 which you again can slowly drop over the evening until bed time.
@@PabloMartinezLive You're absolutely right, maintaining a level of heat that is comfortable and efficient for the boiler to maintain, without letting the temperature drop to steeply would have been the optimum way to run it.
But the system was an older type with quite a basic electronic LCD display type controller. So it was either off, on constant or timer with very basic on and off timing options, the thermostat was a rotary mechanical type on the wall, not the most accurate but functional.
Although to be fair I had individual rad thermostat valves and had 2 zones of heating upstairs and downstairs, I just used to leave everything fully open because we needed the whole house heating, having a family and multiple bedrooms.
The heating system we have now is a much more efficient condensing boiler type with a tado controller, so I have much better app control and finer control of temp etc
At the time of the experiment, I just wanted a system I could set and leave, not have to monitor it or adjust etc
So it was a good valid test that confirmed to me the most gas used was getting the temps up to comfort level from cold ie first thing in the morning, then later in the day in the evening after it had been off all day.
The most efficient for us was a mix of leaving it on all day at weekends when we were all mostly at home and shutting it off during the week in the daytime as we were at work or school.
What I could have done further was find that optimum temp of comfort and efficiency, which is more or less what you suggest by adjusting the temp to the lowest setting possible without shutting it off completely to maintain a suitable level of comfort.
My test was like an all or nothing approach, in winter our heating was on full, it was a cold house with outside winter temps of -5c up to 7 or 8c max, 10c maybe on warmer days through winter but very rare.
Those were the days with the solar gains through the windows our house warmed up naturally without any additional heating but they were the exception rather than the norm.
The conclusion was leaving the heating on all day used more gas but surprisingly not that much more.
It was an easy decision to make for us, I remember how cold my house was growing up, just a single coal fire down stairs heating an old back boiler that didn't really work properly!
Yes frost on the inside of my bedroom window, condensation, damp walls, my mum trying to make a fire first thing in the morning, us all huddled round it in our coats shivering!
I also remember my dad fitting central heating in that same house and the difference through winter was incredible, we were TOO hot lol happy days! 😊
If I see members of the house swanning about in a t-shirt, I turn the temperature down. Getting all the radiators with thermostats is only half the battle. We have it so easy these days when I used to, as a child, have to get dressed under the covers of the bed (after letting the clothes defrost) before emerging dressed. At the moment it doesn't help living in a building site, but that too will pass.
And once dressed, trying to scratch a hole in the frost on the inside of the bedroom window, to check the weather!
Im here watching this heating my house Ireland with peat fired Stanley range cooker very cheap.
Jaysus, you're climate change personified - a double whammy burning peat!
@@pumpkinhead456 nah he sold his private jet to buy the peat burner. He's practically carbon negative
@@pumpkinhead456 I grow lettuce too..carbon neutral I am.
Surprised the Opentherm standard hasn't taken off more in the UK. People are overusing energy because mostly all boilers are set up to be either off or full temperature and nothing in-between and this ends up with overshooting the target temperature. Opentherm modulates the boiler so it backs off as it approaches the target, much like you slow down when you approach a traffic light. I think a lot of newer boilers are now capable of Opentherm yet installers don't understand it so just fit an on/off control.
I would recommend using weather compensation in the UK precisely for the reasons that Roger gives, I'm also a fan of programmable room thermostats, where I time shift the temperature throughout the day, my house has default temp. of 18deg.c
Mathew,
You hit the nail on the head here my friend, Opentherm is essentially the means of smartly controlling the boiler modulation, much like the commercial controls solutions that I install.
Essentially as the boiler flow and return temperatures get closer together (this is called DeltaT) the smart thermostat (Nest, Hive) etc will reduce its signal to the boiler and allow the boiler flame to subside to a minimum output and its during this time the boiler is operating at its most efficient.
Yes, I have the Nest Gen 3 which is Opentherm compliant, although my boiler is a Worcester Bosch so I bought an adapter from the Netherlands to convert WB language to the Opentherm standard. The Nest does weather compensation as it gets live weather data and also learns how fast is takes my house to heat up so all in all a good solution. I think the optimum temperature is around 55oC for condensing and you can see on my boiler the temp going up and down as it modulates to suit. It means your radiators are not always red hot which can confuse people but it’s doing its job!
Imagine the amount of gas we would save as a country if all boilers were set-up with Opentherm - bet that wasn’t mentioned at COP26! 😏
Vaillant/Gloworm is eBUS many others are OpenTherm, problem is the installers not pushing it and/or consumers not wanting to replace all their existing controls with compatible ones.
Also why Vaillant is one of few suppliers that do not support OpenTherm in the UK (yes in NL they do but officially do not sell the board to make that compatible), but their eBUS does the same thing if using their own controls.
Yea, it should be made standard for all new installs, it’s a no brainer especially in a emission-conscious world we’re now living in. But again installers are either not aware or just don’t understand the technology. I know Baxi, Ideal and Intergas support the Opentherm standard and others do their own propitiatory version.
According to government guidelines do star jumps leave the oven opened after cooking and drink warm drinks 🙄
True though. The oven thing is definitely sound advice.
Star jumps are the best. Warms you up and good cardio vascular exercise. They should be compulsory- 20 star jumps per hour.
What a first class explanation and diaganosis....very well done
My experience of 30 years in a Victorian solid-walled stone house is that heating continuously is cheaper. I calculate the thermal time constant of my walls at about 40 hours (borne out by observation), so switching off the heating overnight makes minimal saving in the heat lost, no more than 5%. But in the morning, with the heating on, the walls are colder so there are more convection currents and the room feels colder (wind chill), and I find that to make the room feel equally warm throughout the day I need to set the thermostat at least 1°C higher, which increases the losses by something like 10%. I do accept that my house is an extreme example and that for most people in UK the advice here works.
I live in a block of flats,I have GCH & put on my heating on a low setting on October & leave it on until March,my flat was built in 1978,the Sound proofing & insultation isnt great,my flat stays at about 16-18c & it suits me fine & works about 75p - £1 per day.....I cant bare a home that is really hot & stuffy....
Exactly the same for me. If heating on timed periods I have to set to 21c to feel warm because the fabric is cold. If I leave at 19c the house is much more comfortable and the boiler runs on opentherm so rads are about 33c.
I thought this so I tested it over the winter and spring this year and having the heating on constantly with the thermstat set to room temperature to keep it comfortable was a terrible idea. I have now switched over to the timer which runs 4.30 am to 5.30am and then 6.30 pm - 7.30 pm and this keeps the house comfortable and cost far less.
In spring we are only running for an hour in the morning.
Turning the heating off completely is a bad idea because all the pipes start radiating very cold air and your house just becomes one massive fridge and be way too cold even on a sunny warm day. So yea, big advice is KEEP ALL DOORS IN THE HOUSE SHUT at all times and RUN heating once a day for a short period. In winter you can increase the timing of the 2 heating periods. You will defo save alot on your bills whilst keeping your house at comfortable levels.
As an HVAC pro. Set a temperature you are comfortable with and enjoy your home. In the winter my system is never off. I have my system programed to turn the temperature down a bit while I'm at work and in the middle of the night. If your bills are to high add insulation and seal up your home. If that still doesn't help upgrade to a more efficient heating system. After all that if you are still unhappy move to a smaller place that you can afford to keep comfortable. Big windows and tall ceilings often make for an uncomfortable home.
Orrrrr.... instead of moving house they could simply apply some common sense and logic by turning the heating off when they're out/when it's not needed lol how anyone could attempt to argue against the Laws of physics/Thermodynamics is beyond me - I always leave my engine running incase I need to go anywhere, cheaper than turning it on again
@@numerouno2532 That comparison doesen't make any sense
@@soulfester6241 I know! I also leave the oven on the whole day because it's cheaper than waiting for it to heat up again every time.
@@numerouno2532 The comparison is different yet it's nonsense like the other one 🤣 How can you compare those two things to not having your home reach 15 degrees and then having to heat up every evening all the way to 20/21?
@@soulfester6241 I know, did I mention I keep my toilet button pressed down constantly too?
I live in a 1994 in a 4 bed detached house. Reasonably well insulated ,maybe the double glazing needs updating Normally i would heat to 19.5 deg or 20 on the thermostat after having the heating off when out. My bills were high . So i decided to experiment . After noticing my house would drop 5 deg average on an average house empty time , i decided to turn my heating down 5 deg on the thermostat when i leave the house so not to drop below this temp with outside temp fluctuation. My house is combi boiler (valiant) all water radiators no underfloor. The gas bill was £60 a month cheapest tariff . Now with this method its £49 a month with the latest gas price rises.
I have the same situation like you had and I am going to do the experiment, as I had the thermostat set at 20 degree only when I am home ,in specially after 8pm until morning and it costs me 5pounds per day,which I think it.s quite a lot for me. So, I am going to proceed and leave the heat on the entire day. Hope I will have good results same as you. I am glad you wrote about it ,it gives me more courage seeing someone already did this, cause i was doubting a bit. So..thanks😁 Have a warm winter and Happy Holidays !
You're right.
Only switch the heating on when you need it.
I've tested this argument myself.
I keep my heating set to a standard 17’C for a constant, and if I feel like it’s a little cold I turn it up to 20’C for a couple hours, and then back down again, what I found is that over the year, it only costs me about £5-10 more a month to do it that way, and I’m happy paying that, especially given my schedule means I’m in and out randomly.
Gosh, I’d feel freezing if the house was below 68°F (20°C)! Offices are almost always kept at 72° (22°) because that is always thought to be a comfortable temperature for sedentary occupants. My friends and I had to ask a friend to turn his heating up from 64°F (18°) when we visited last winter because we were all so cold! I always keep my thermostat at 72°F (22°C) and turn it up a degree or so if I feel cold.
We leave the heating on permanently at 18 degrees, which isn't a warm temp, but is warm enough for us. Can always put a jumper on and some slippers. Our gas bills are a good 30-40% cheaper than our friends.
About 12 years ago we bought a house that an old engineer guy had built a series of walls that acted as baffles and used a bio fuel central heating system which he left running very low for the winter months and he swore by the thermic effects . It was really interesting and a real out of the box style approach. Turned out that he was talking bollocks. Ripped it all out. He was a fucking idiot. Got underfloor heating now.
I've been testing an a2a heat pump for a couple of days recently which proves to be quite efficient - one 4,2 kW Toshiba Haori unit heats up a 120m2 moderately insulated house (located in Poland BTW ;-) is using approx. 8-10 kWh/24h. The target temp is set to 22C, but most of the time it runs in Eco mode, so in the living room the temp is at 20-21C and upstairs in bedrooms it reaches 18-19C. Outside temp swings from -7C in the night to +5 during the day. The input power drops as low as 260W, most of the time it's around 500W, but we may boost it to around 2kW in Power mode. The installation guys adviced to keep it on at all times, because it's better for the compressor, especially at minus temperatures.
Mostly I use 2 pairs of socks a hot water bottle and a wool blanket its virtually free and you kind of get used to it. My rented home has a energy rating of E so little point in putting on heating unless its propper bitter as it just goes through the roof and walls. what with gas the price it is. Mind you when i was a kid our house was just as cold and parents too tight to put heating on very often. we did get one of those big portable Calor Gas fires in the living room though.
My 4 bed semi takes so long to heat up that if we left the hearing off 8 hours during the day it would take all evening to reach 19°C even on 80°C flow temp. Since we both work from home we just keep it on 19°C all day and the flow temps on the condensing boiler varies between 35°C and 50°C. Costs about £4-5 per day at the moment since the Mrs freezes if the overnight temp is any lower than 18°C.
I would say your house is very badly insulated , or your radiators are too small, tiny radiators are a pain .
Wear a jumper not t shirt and shorts. This is northern Europe not Southern California.
@@billgreen576 hoodie and jogging pants are standard attire when in the house. Thanks for the tip though 👍
Would it not be cheaper to exchange the Mrs for a variant which doesn’t require 18 C at night.
Sounds like your radiators are undersized which seems common nowdays when, with a condensing boiler, the opposite is desirable. A result of competitive tendering (imo) since large radiators obviously cost more and people don't compare rad sizes at the quotation stage. Or may be your rads are clogged with cobwebs & dust on the airside fins so greatly reducing convection (radiators heat 85% + by convection). Easy to fix with a bottle washer brush, a lamp and a mirror (not so easy with the enclosed type finned rads that have a top casing, i assume that this is removeable !!)
The Mrs won't need an 18 deg C bedroom if she had a modern electric under blanket (with room temp compensation, room colder, more heat into bed; they come with individual temp. controls for a double bed) and a high TOG duvet with a blanket on top of that if needed. A good dressing gown & slippers are useful too.
People forget the old British Gas `Guaranteed Warmth' advertisements (late 60s ??) .... the guaranteed temperatures were ..... Bedrooms 60 deg F (15.56 C); Hall, Kitchen, Bathroom 65 deg F (18.33 C); Living rooms 70 deg F (21.11 C).
N.B. I live in an 1890s end terrace, my bedroom routinely falls to 14 deg C at night and I'm quite warm enough in bed with only boxers on. I've certainly never left the heating on all night. Today I've had my heating on for 2 hours in the morning (the living room stat never attained it's 18.5 deg C setpoint but nearly did) and nothing since, the living room temperature has decayed to 16 deg C and I don't feel cold - I have 4 T shirts, one Jumper and two pairs of `Long Johns' on. A bit eccentric? Yes i guess, I consider it a challenge to use as little gas as possible. Having a shared warm wall helps of course. It depends on one's mood as well to some extent how much heat you need in the house, and on exercise - coming back from a long walk one feels warm for quite a time in a cool house.
Our monthly bill is now rated at £180 per month(DD) - that is with our heating on twice a day - this works out to around £6 per day. So to remidy this we bougt a small propain heater that uses 1.5 canisters a day(on low) - at £1.50 per cannister(in bulk) that equates to £2.25 per day or £67.50 per day. Down side is that this heats just one room. We might mix and match - stick the central heating on for 1 hour in the morning and 1 in the evening - continuing with the propain heater as and when. Hopefully we are looking at a saving of at least £50 per month.
Don't forget that flueless gas heaters create a lot of moisture.
I think its time to do another video on heat pumps.
With modern thermostats, on and off have different definitions. e.g. with my Hive thermostat it's always on - just timed to be different temperatures. So effectively I could say it's 'off' when I've set it at 10 degrees for 9 am to 4pm, but technically it's still on. I've found with our house it was much less efficient letting the temp drop to even 16 degrees when 'off' and it works much better at 18 at lowest, and coming up to 20 or 21 for comfort times. Of course then boosting when needed. I'm hoping with underfloor heating and a refurb sorting out insulation in many rooms, I will be able to save on bill in future...
Each house is different. Generally speaking having a boiler on low 24/7 means when you do lose heat, it will take ages to get back to temperature. And likely you won’t ever feel ‘proper warm.’ Better just to use your timers effectively for when you want that heat. Your thermostat when it gets to temperature will switch off your boiler anyhow, it doesn’t just keep chugging away constantly costing you money. Unless of course you don’t have one! Ideally you’d think any medium sized dwelling plus would have multiple zonal valves (at least two thermostats) to be more efficient. Many houses can be warm downstairs but cold upstairs, and of course people jack up the thermostat costing them more money.
yeah i tend to turn it off or very low when i go out too
i just like to have the option of giving me that kick of heat when you turn it up again.
Hi mate, I'm in a rented house- very small but loses about 1-1.5c an hour- can only get it to about 18c. I go out and come back and it's very cold- overnight drops to about 8-10c and takes a few hours in a morn to get upto 14c
I’ve done a test Roger , over winter 20 I had flue so had on 24/7 at same temp
Nov dec Jan Feeling better back to on off feb mar
I keep a record of daily temps all 5 months we’re same cold
I used 1.85p a day 24/7
I used 1.45 p a day on/off
So yes it’s costlier BUT not that much more lol
So it all depends on 2 things
How poor you are ( ev penny counts )
And price of your gas ( good bad deal an now this massive surge in prices )
But back to cost
You say “not much more expensive” but the difference in those figures is more than 25%. I think most would be happy to reduce their heating bill by a quarter….
@@nigelbarton8350 must apologise nige on reflection I forgot not everyone can or do leave there CH on for 14 hrs a day !
An extra 10 hours is at 7/5 ratio so who budget and do say 8 to 10 then 4 to 9 cost go from 33% - at min 50% more
Impossible for struggling families people on benefit on old prices !
God help them now at these predicted prices ( ELF quoted me 9p plus for gas on 24 month deal ffs )
My 2.4p deal ended in Nov sob lol .
Now every man an his dog curse ridding the fireplace an gas fire , at least we could toast our feet before going to a ice cold bedroom or sit on a freezing toilet seat lol 😂
It does amplify my reply an yours to me how varied things affect us depending on our situation .
I came across as a pompous well off but I’m a Caring single OAP sickened at cuts to the poorest sadism is truly rife in Tory party !
@@jimmorris5700 Hey don’t be hard on yourself Jim, you didn’t come across that way at all. I was just thinking that the daily difference doesn’t sound huge, but over a year it is.
We have moved to using our wood burners far more and turning the rest of the heating down for most of the day, we’re lucky to have lots of wood for free as neighbours are keen to get rid of it when they have tree work done and I am hoping to break even with last years bill as a result. But as you say I pity families on lower incomes or without this fallback.
Thank you for giving me the answer on like 30 seconds
Thank you Roger, probably the most useful information I'll ever get watching the fluff I do on YT. My new build 15 yr ago 2 bed timber frame shoe box maisonette that iv noticed getting colder quicker an longer to heat n stay warm last 3 yrs r so. Going t 10 Yr 3 bed timber and brick house. Interesting and scary to see the difference in gas bill. I'll take your advice an just heat when I need.
I live in an old house from 1740 it’s not a warm house when the heating goes off on the thermostat it’s of about 25 mins before it comes back on we have it set to 18.5 to 19.5
Roger,
I love watching your videos, because you are quite passionate and sometimes emotive about a particular subject; however in this latest video, you are sort of right if people have an old style boiler, however if you have a combi boiler you are completely wrong.
I am a BMS controls consultant for a reputable company and we have recently persuaded a commercial building owner to leave their heating on 24x7 and guess what, the gas bill went down considerably based on the previous years gas usage.
Now it’s not just as simple as leaving the heating on and that’s why I said you are partially correct.
It’s all about having the boiler operate at a lower temperature to help the boiler condense and improve its efficiency. When the boiler first fires up and is operating at full bore to get the house warm from being off all day,
It’s during this time that the boiler will use the most gas.
When the boiler is up to temperature and is ticking over, it’s then that the efficiency kicks in.
I may do a video of my own in the coming months to disprove your comments here but for now, just trust my 43 years of experience in controlling HVAC in commercial properties as fact that you can save money by leaving the heating on 24x7 if you have the right level of control.
Hi Paul
I fully appreciate your point and I thought long and hard about this very thing before making my video. I may return to the subject because there is a case to be made for leaving your heating on low but it is not economy.
If you simply compare one year with another you need to make all the adjustments for the variation in temperatures.
All the trials I have looked at show that the heat loss from buildings needs to be replaced. You can either do this by matching the heat input to the losses, which is your approach with good controls, or you can let those heat losses do their thing and then top up the heat for the periods you need the heat.
My assumption is that people heat their house for 1 1/2 hours or so in the morning and then for 6 hourse in the evening.
When the boiler kicks in it will be running cold and the heat input will be high. The initial firing up will be in condensing mode but towards the end of the period the boiler will be hardly condensing. Even in a non condensing mode the efficiency is going to be in the high 80's. So we can say that the boiler is running, maybe, 6% below the efficiency that it would achieve running at a flow temperature of 50 deg.
All this will be subject to wide variations according to outside temperatures. I am nowhere near clever enough to run a computer simulation for all the variations.
If you can produce a graph that proves your point then a lot of boiler manufacturers will be interested because, so far, I have only seen evidence that supports my statement.
I am happy to learn and issue a correction or even take that video down it I am wrong.
As I said in my video, thermal comfort is greater when the temperature is even so it may well be that you can set the room temperatures lower. That would be a game changer and I suspect this simple fact would be enough to explain why so many people are saying they save money.
@@SkillBuilder can you provide me with an email address and I can send you graphs proving my point.
@@SkillBuilder
OpenTherm Explained
OpenTherm is a communication protocol between heating controls and the boiler to modulate the temperature flow through a heating system. This can increase the energy efficiency of a heating system whilst maintaining the desired set point temperature in the home.
Here we explain how three types of heating systems operate.
Heating systems with basic controls
Basic heating systems control the temperature of a home by heating the water running into the radiators at one temperature, then switching the boiler off when the room reaches its set point. The boiler will then switch on again when the room temperature drops below set point. This standard on/off operation often over/under shoots the set point when used with basic heating controls.
Heating systems with ON/Off modulating heating controls
ON/Off modulating heating controls adjust the average water temperature within the heating system by cycling your boiler On and Off periodically. In this setup the water temperature produced by the boiler itself is still fixed.
The On/Off period is determined by several factors but is primarily based on how hard your heating needs to work to reach the target temperature. For example, when heating up a cold room or during cold conditions where rooms are cooling quickly, the boiler will be On for longer periods - these are ‘high load’ conditions. In ‘low load’ conditions, such as maintaining a temperature, the boiler may only be on for a few minutes at a time. This translates to high load conditions generating, on average, higher water temperatures than low load conditions. When compared with basic On/Off thermostats this uses less energy to maintain more comfortable conditions.
Note: may or may not overshoot, but there will be a small ripple around the setpoint
OpenTherm heating system with OpenTherm modulating controls
OpenTherm modulation operates on a similar principle but is achieved more directly by setting the desired water temperature from the boiler rather than by cycling it On and Off.
For ‘high load’ conditions a high water setpoint can be requested from the boiler. The water temperature being requested will then reduce over time as the room temperature approaches set point. The important difference here is that the boiler will run for longer periods but it will be producing water at lower temperatures, resulting in less energy being used and maximising the time spent in the higher efficiency condensing mode.
One of the main benefits of OpenTherm modulation is more stable and accurate control of the room temperature, even when compared with On/Off load compensation controls.
Note: May or may not overshoot but will have a stable control (Very minor fluctuations - but better than On/Off load compensation).
@@PabloMartinezLive hey Paul, would love to chat to you as I am also well involved with the Bms company at an office building I manage. Old fashioned 4 pipe active chilled/heated beams. New boilers but still high gas Bills.
Anyway, my opentherm at home is currently controlling my boiler to 30c flow temp with a comfort set point of 19c 24/7. Sometimes I see this creep up as high as 35c if it gets colder but in general it's just ticking it over. Some rooms are nearly at 21c but the coldest room on the hall is 19c. It sets back at night to 18c but heating the home with 30c is great.
Roger, you are a gent, a very intelligent man and an all round decent skin, thank you for all you do, and long may you continue, Kev
Nice of you but have you ever watched those kinds on University Challenge? They make me feel very stupid.
I live in 1910's house and when I work from home I just stick the heating on for an hour at lunch time to take the chill off and then another couple of hours in the evening. After living in cold houses all my life you just get used to not being warm all the time and I just throw a blanket over me when I'm sat down.
Why do you need a "heat pump" , to have your heating on all day?
My elderly mother has always preferred the radiators to be warm at least.
The problem with a thermostat is that when the desired temperature is reached, the boiler switches off and your radiators go cold.
So, the answer to that problem, if you have someone like my mum, is to over ride the thermostat and turn the boiler radiator temperature down .
All you do is turn your thermostat setting to say 30 degrees c, then by setting the boiler radiator temperature dial to a lower temperature, the radiators will stay warm and you actually do feel warmer because the radiators haven't gone cold - they are still radiating heat, but at a lower temperature. It will never reach 30 degrees c if you turn your boiler radiator temperature down, so the thermostat never kicks in
Obviously, if you set too low, the radiators might not be hot enough to reach the desired temperature, or too high and you get too warm.
The only issue though, with this set-up is that the boiler will be running and that means more electricity used .
Just by trial and error you'll find the right setting.
Many people forget that a gas boiler also uses electricity - the motor is probably using something like 140 watts per hour, which equates to about 55 pence a day or £16.50 per month at 35pence a kWh. (UK price, December 2022).
I am currently sat in my office in my house and during the day, the last week or so the temp during the day sits around 11 to 12 Centigrade. I put the central heating on from 8pm to 10pm just to get a little warmth before I go to bed. I can see my breath it's that bad.
I cannot afford to pay for the amount of energy I would normally use over winter due to an increase of 150% on my gas and a 100% on my electric at the end of sept this year when my fixed rate tariff ended.
Octopus wanted to raise my dd from £189 to £600 a month. I cancelled my dd and went over to payment on invoice. I paid £140 credit into my octopus account on Sept 5th and with the last 3 government subsidy payments as of the 5th Dec I was £6 in credit on my account.
This has been the worst winter for the cold in the house and with coronary heart disease I am wrapped up in so many clothes I look twice the size I am.
Dreading the increase next April on the gas and electric prices. YOU WILL OWN NOTHING AND YOU WILL BE HAPPY seems to be coming true for me at least.
Merry xmas everyone and stay safe and sane.
Good luck mate, hard times
@@greggreg9677 Indeed.
@@greggreg9677 Cheers, Merry xmas
Well summed up and very logical
Turning heating off goes back to, starting all over again heating firing up the boiler a cold home
After listening to several experts on yt I was about to say sod it because I was non the wiser. But you sir broke it down in nice easy language and now I know what to do. One question: should we turn down the temperature on the boiler and water tank?
I own a 1970 built flat which now has double glazing. The heating system is warm air supplied by a relatively new Johnson & Starley heating unit. It’s absolutely fantastic, far better and more reliable than the boiler and radiators I used have in my old house and no risk of leaks. I can’t understand why builders don’t adopt theses systems, they’re common in North America. Perhaps it’s because the ducting must be integrated into the building and in a flat that takes up space.
Hi Jack
They are good systems but the British don't like the way they dry the air out.
We use smart trvs and a central thermostat, this allows us to set the temperature of each individual room depending on the time of day, bedrooms warmed in the morning but lower during the day for example. This allows us to keep the heating on 24/7 but the boiler only adds in heat when needed and the temperature in the house can be kept lower as the house doesn't have cold spots. Definitely reduced our heating bills and don't have the issue of cold bedrooms if we light a fire in the living room where the main thermostat was
Which thermostat and trvs do you use ?
@@christophercrowley7574 we use the Tado thermostat
So I’m leaving it on full time. And controlling the temperature to as low as possible and turning it up when needed. Mould happens when a medium house with small ventilation keeps going through the dew point. 14 degrees Not constantly works as a minimum safe temperature.
I leave mine on 30 hours per day. It works out so much cheaper than having it on for 12 hours. BTW I have a bridge for sale if anybody is interested.
Congrats on 400k subscribers, Rodger
Thank you, it has been a long hard road to get here but getting back to zero may be quicker.
Thanks
Thank you Paula, that will go to the Lucy Rayner Foundation
Excellent Roger great explaination of the situation and you throughly covered it all giving the bigger picture of heating your home.
Very well explained. Good advice that not everyone takes it. I have been using the heating only when necessary. The timer selected 2 hs in the morning -5 to 7 AM, then, 4 hs late afternoons -4 to 8 pm. I am a stay home mum and I used jackets and warm clothing while at home. I have been doing this for the last 18 years. Thanks to this my bills are always lower. However, the dodgy company providers are the only reason for the prices up. There are no changes in my habitual actions daily basis and they always ended up refunding the extra money they take on their set ups monthly fees. So why do they ask you to do advance payments as sort of fixed fees in the first place? I honestly think that payments should be paid in arrears and of course, provided your readings accurately, according to your use. What do you think?
The company's make huge money on their "advance payments" yes they refund you, but they are making interest on all the millions of people's money they are holding.
You can ring them up and they will refund otherwise it gets carried forward to the next bill. Due to inertia there are few people that do this. Smart meters get over this problem, so that you are only paying for what you use.
I fully agree with you.same here..heating on for the early shower..so heating on from 5.30am till 7am.. then heating on again before we come home 16.30 till 20.00..👍🏼
The global energy market is the reason for the price rises. All energy suppliers are currently buying energy at 50% (or more) than they're selling it for due to the price cap, which is why many have been forced out of business.
I was thinking exactly the same thing as you. I even rang up the Utility company and started telling them, but the lady simply said, "We are moving to OVO and it's their policy to operate monthly direct debit withdrawals. Also, Martin Lewis was saying the same thing on his money saving programme. He said focus on heating the 'person', not the whole house. In other words, use insulation as a means of keeping warm, rather then just external heaters. That way, you maximise the retention of heat.
Without it even watching the video i know its not cheaper to leave it on 24/7.
My house was built in the early 1700's
I have no cavity. Very little roof insulation.
Its a lovely solid place but damn is it cold in winter, especially with gas prices now.
Wear a jumper or 2, dont be afraid to sit under a blanket.
The worse thing I did was put the gas fire in... The coal fire was so much better.
I'm a plumber, I retrofitted an air source heat pump into my house 3 years ago and I've monitored it closely. It's definitely not cheaper to it 27/7. The COP at night is a killer, and heating the house when everyone is in bed makes no sense....in my opinion anyway. I run the system on weather compensation from 1pm until 11pm everyday, I'd guess its about 30% cheaper to run vs 24/7. My house is not A rated, perhaps a C or B.
I have an air source heat pump and I was advised by the heating engineer to leave it at a constant temperature, simply because the pump, unlike a gas boiler, takes ages to get up to temperature. I have half ignored him and the temperature is reduced overnight to 16 degrees. In the morning it has to get up to 19 and when it starts to go dark in the evening up to 21. However his point was that it takes more electricity to increase temperature by a few degrees than it does to keep it constant. I haven't noticed much difference between the 2 methods in terms of KW hours.. I did have it previously at 16 during the day and then up to 21 at tea time. But it took at least a couple of hours to do that because the radiators never get more than lukewarm.
@@nigelduckworth406 I should also clarify that I'm running my system primarily on radiators, we have a 35sq mtr extension with ufh. Sounds like you might have underfloor heating yourself?
i'm getting a new house, properly isolated, with a heat pump that goes down 136 meters in the ground
sounds pretty promising to me in terms of passive capabilities,
also i'll be getting like 8 big old solar panels on the roof.
or well, if i remember correctly it's 47 heatpumps for 120ish houses orso.
pretty stoked for it, since i lived in a 96-year old run-down house that costs a fortune in the winter to even keep at 16 degrees celcisu lol
Geothermal closed loop heatpump is the best and only choice in a new build. 24/7 21 degrees. COP 5+ with source regen in the summer from passive cooling. I know it, because i have it.
Every house and heating system is different, we currently have a very old house with 3ft thick stone walls, put decent insulation in and keep the oil boiler air stat set to 18° by day and 14° by night, boiler almost never kicks in at night even in winter and we are in the heart of the cairgorm mountains. The 5kw wood burner adds extra heat in the evening should we wish it. Go through about 500litres oil each year, pretty reasonable I think.
How did you insulated the house? We own a late XIX cen house with solid walls (a mix of stone and brick afaik), and I I'm exploring the options. The external wall insulation seems to achieve the best results, but its is definitely more expensive.
Need to do one on gas/oil vs heatpump in a high efficiency house. Total costs and burning FFs to make electricity.
I run my heating on the boiler stat all day not the room stat ..low bills last year
the voice of commonsense has spoken, good work roger !!
I've done the maths. It is CHEAPER to leave the heating ON.
Keep switching the heating on from cold is a waste.
It takes at least a couple of hours to get up to temperature each time .... THAT is wasted energy.
I'm well in pocket leaving the heat on for three months.
You are flying in the face of science and you can't possibly make the 2 hour claim because it depends on things you don't know. It is cheaper to switch it off.....always
Storage heaters work more cheaply when you turn the dial up a bit more so that when they start the heating process again the heat is still there from before without having to heat again from cold saving money
The most economical thing you can do is fit thermostatic radiator valves. Unfortunately the UK Govt puts 20% vat on such energy saving items.
My flat was built in the 40s so it’s all brick takes days to thaw out. If I don’t keep heating ticking over
All uk gas and electric consumers are going to get well and truly shafted by the utility companies come April 2022 , I hope yor ready for the massive bill increases.
Remember doing this experiment thirty years ago. One week on constant the second week timed, as you say the timed was definitely cheaper. It was carried out in January and I was very fortunate to have the same weather conditions both week's hence improving accuracy.
my plutonium pellets keep my feet nice and toasty warm :)
This Winter I have left our heating on 24/7, vs. last Winter we ran it twice a day, once from 5:30am to 9:00am and then from 4:00pm to 12:00pm. Most of our heating is via a heat pump, unless the outdoor temp falls below 3c, then a gas boiler takes over. I have measured the energy consumption exactly via input and output meters, so this is fact, not guesswork. What do you think? We have used less energy this Winter than we did last Winter across the same date range and with similar outdoor temperatures. Part of the reason for this is that our heat pump's operating efficiency has gone up by over 25%, because it never has to work really hard to get the house back to temperature. Additionally, the house has been more comfortable. So, if you're using a heat pump, I would suggest you maximise its efficiency by leaving it on all of the time. BTW, we have an old Victorian house with stone walls, not a super-insulated modern building. The heat pump is providing our heating 75%+ of the time, it DOES NOT take several days for the heat pump to get the house temperature, but it does take several hours and during this time it would be working hard if we kept switching it off.
i agree with your experiance and the theory totally ,i myself will be moving soon and plan on using ground source heating and backing that up with solar to run the heatpump , (my question at that stage will be 'what this cost to heat people are talking about ' )
The heat loss of a house increases with higher temperatures. Therefore, if the heating is off, as the temperature drops so does the amount of energy lost drop too..
Don't (always) agree with Roger but do on this. We've just renovated a very old house and have spent a lot of money on insulation. open plan ground floor with 2 woodburners at each end. One will be enough for most UK winter scenarios. Upstairs - we've insulated everything, including internal walls so that heat loss from unheated rooms doesn't affect the rest of the house. The kitchen is in a large extension and this is also insulated from the main house. During the day, with a woodburner on tick over, there is no need for my wife to heat the house by any other means. She's in the kitchen for most of the time by her own choice. That's the only room that gets heated, all the other rads are off and on bluetooth TRV's. Add clothing, turn heating off = save money. We're all going to have to do this in the future.
I am glad you don't agree with me on everything. I would hate that. I hardly agree with anybody on everything except of course my wife.
The price of Gas and Electricity is so expensive, its actually my biggest monthly expenditure. I'm Thinking of getting myself a skipping rope and an ex army trench coat, and turn the heating off completely!
Ps. I hear energy prices are going up again in April?
Yes there is going to be another big rise. I don't think that Boris has any real problems right now compared to the shit that will hit the fan when people start getting cut off. I can see the headlines now.
I live in a 60s 3 bed detached bungalow, my wife and I are the only 2 residents plus 4 cats. We leave ours on 19/20 degrees 24/7 flicking on and off. Both our gas and electricity combined are £70 per month, good going I'd say. So I think keeping it ticking over is cheaper. To be fair we use more electricity than gas too. I do think it could be down to having cast iron radiators, the boiler doesn't have to work as hard once up to temp.
That's good going. You mustn't be profligate users.
Love these videos !
I leave my thermostat at 17. If I feel cold I light the fire but usually I’m now more used to the cold when I go out. Of course, if I had a bird this wouldn’t be possible.
Good clip ✌️ i think modern inteligent thermostats with tailored schedule can do something between not heating and heating all the time.
6"styrofoam &/or 10-12"rockwool on top of underfloor heating is money&comfort saver on the long run
I don’t agree. Yes, heat loss is bigger when keeping your heating on (+6%?). But if your heat production is 10% cheaper because you operate at lower watertemp, then it is cheaper to leave the heating on. This is very realistic with a heatpump.
Good advice. It's good that we're on the same page.
What about you don’t notice the cold?? My home is a Terrace built in 1900. Everyone thinks my home is cold. But I actually don’t notice it. It’s not a problem too me!!!!!!! But obviously 🙄 it is to everyone else. I do turn it on to warm the house up. But it only needs too rise a few degrees, and I start sweating 😓.
Me too. I have one room that is very draughty (not for long), but 5 minutes with fan heater lasts a couple of hours. Good slippers are a must.
You make a good point. In my job, I spend about an hour each in different houses throughout the day, and I find it surprising that some people have their rooms uncomfortably warm, and others uncomfortably cool.
My condensing boiler
gets the heating turned on around late October till April
Timer set to turn on 4pm till 10pm 7 days a week
When may comes.heating turned off and boiler only used for hot water
My gas and electric bill are 72 pound a month direct debit and for the last couple of years I've got around 100 pound refund as was in credit
The way it was recently put to me by a heating engineer (Andrew Millward on RUclips if anyone is interested), was to frame it in the same way as driving a distance in your car. It's more efficient to drive slower and steadier than to slow right down then hammer it up to speed(and very possibly overshoot). And that makes sense to me so I guess I'm in the camp of 24hr running now. Unfortunately I only kitted my house out with a full tado system a year ago so that'll be going in favour of weather comp at the same time the ufh goes in.
@@DirtIndustry for extended periods, no, if I'm just nipping to the ATM though.....
@@rodgerq Well yes if you're nipping out for 5 min to the shop or 30min to collect your kids from school. What is being talked about is leaving the house at 8am and getting home at 5pm. It's pointless to leave it running at your normal living temp if you can tell it to come on 30-60 minutes before you come in to a nice warm house. If you don't behave Greta will shame you. 🤣😂🤣
Excellent, all your videos are outstanding, I love it