daff152 it's all that disapproval. It would be much easier to enjoy her good moments and ignore the rest if there wasn't always a "Vivienne Greatly Disapproves" floating over my screen.
I've never had a huge problem getting approval from Vivienne. THing is, personal freedom and such is nice. But people with superpowers/magic that can easily harm innocents if untrained kind of makes personal freedom a moot point in the long run.
@@Pfisiar22 Just for lulz and giggles, I opened my savefile pre-Skyhold with an editor to see the numerical amout of Vivienne's approval. Turns out I was above 75 even before Cory attacked, lol :D
Solas: "You would think such understanding would stop me from making such horrible mistakes. You would be wrong." Bioware hid Solas's secret so well, but you have to love the subtle hints they gave us. I totally missed this in my first play through.
captmoroni solas didnt no one did you stopped it from happening. Hell you and dorian see a part and hear stories but none of your party would remember anything since its only you and dorian who got sent foward.
captmoroni Wrong. The veil here wasnt gone it was just torn. Still there but only corypheus was allowing certain creatures through. Only the anchor (besides Solas and The evanuris using other methods) is able to fully tear the veil down. The Evanuris is not corypheus my guy. If the Evanuris were there we would see it, they are so far beyond corypheus's level it isnt funny. I'd assume that in time (more than just one year) we would see them but since Bioware didnt want to use that yet because that will be for DA4 for Evanuris when they will have their grand entrance and will be the main battle with or against Fen Harel to settle their 8000 year old war The world actually without the veil is different because the Fade is actually a normal part of nature. What we see here is just corypheus benifiting off a breach using specific spirits, not the entire fade. What solas did by creating the veil, created the blight (the magisters the accidently released it when they entered the fade) and the Veil slowly is killing off most nature related things. And the veil is slowly suffocating the planet as the Fade is what gives life. Thats why the veil is a mistake and why it will go down. The veil properly removed is just restoring nature. But what happened with the breach was just a chaotic tear because the veil still was there.
@@nelson_rebel3907 Personally, I thought the Blight was a result of the Fade reflecting emotion. Since the magisters were all corrupt to the core, they were reshaped to reflect it. And corruption spreads, which is why the Blight spreads.
The Iron Bull's and Leliana's responses are what really fuck with this quest. They both say that this is /their/ present, not some alternate universe as it appears to the player. They lived through it all, without the Inquisitor. Who are you to say you really know the damage, as this is only a burdened stroll, not a damning lifetime?
Sera is baby and I ruined many, many a body making sure that she was only ever smiles and laughter. I kicked myself so hard for bringing her on this mission...
That particular line made me think that yes, Sera is a jerk, but she didn't become one overnight without any reason. Instead of writing her off, I try my best to think and feel things on her perspective, try at least to be patient while dealing with her because one thing for sure she has been through a lot at such tender age (and judging by her past, it does enough that it influences her actions throughout her appearance).
Lelianna is the most painful in this one. Like, I didn't even see this until my second playthrough, I went with the templars on my first. She is having none of your shit and is still the most badass one in the room
+Dylan Fox I broke my heart to see Leliana like that!!! My beautiful bard turned hardened ghoul, makes me want to fling myself at the nearest high dragon!!!
This scene, honestly, hit a raw nerve with a lot of fans judging from their reactions. I have several characters that would do this quest but honestly I don't think I could do it again.
It crops up in other places as well, Crestwood when fighting Templars before closing the rift at sea for example, or Empres De Leon that has this and Champions of the Just at the same time as some kind of Inquisition Nightmare Hybrid Mix. Nasty.
This whole thing--Varric is like: LOL This is small shit. 3:17 "Demons and gods and....I've got a bow" Hawkeye? Is that you? Solas: Holy shitsnacks, you're alive. Wow! IE - the only time you will ever see Solas shocked by something. Meanwhile, Blackwall cries his big bearded emo tears.
It’s not until you see this cutscene and the Fade’s with Sera that you realize something She’s always been feigning her confidence, she can only act like this because nobles always seem to enable her behavior with how they react. Demons, don’t respond to jokes, quips, or a little jab with death threats. The Fade isn’t something you can traverse naturally. The fact she can’t control either makes her worthless, all she can do is kill, but even then she is still limited in that regard. Without the things that she can rely on to build her confidence, she becomes nothing. And being nothing is what she fears most. She is nothing in this realm
I regretted bringing poor Sera on this quest. She has the hardest time dealing with all the magic and Fade and demon stuff. I never bring her to the Fade. I doubt I'll ever be bringing Blackwall to Redcliffe castle, either. He sounds so broken.
@@rokkfel4999 It's weird cause I got this convo even after not having Blackwall along for this quest. Either it was bugged that time or it's possible to say that even if you don't take him.
@@rokkfel4999 I think the second option's true, cause you can talk about Orlesian Ball or other quests with the companions you didn't bring along yet it still sounds like they were there. Never brought Solas for Wicked Eyes and he still says his things about court intrigue etc.
I've only just played this game and I was kind of sure I'd hate Dorian. I had only seen pictures of him and I knew he was Tevinter and I waited for him to show and fuck things up. Then he showed and I fell in love with the way he talks xD "I'm ever so much more handsome than a cockroach" Dorian was one of my favourites :3
This moment was what made me see Sera differently. It was heartbreaking. And Blackwall became the hottest piece of action, right there. Born leader, the way he takes charge in the end.
@Eagle Seidr not really, one of the reasons it may be hard to guess Solas' identity and motives is because it all sounds so fantastic. The passage of time makes it so that the gods of old are not very real in people's minds, even to the dalish. It was already so in a way even for Corypheus and he is pretty old himself. Imagine one of your friends suddenly comes up and says "yo I'm Jesus but I was only ever human". That's how these people would feel about it. Besides, an all over demon invasion puts elf problems in second rank, since even removing the veil wouldn't fix anything at this point.
@@FullmetalHeart20 I'd actually say that both of them are fitting of being called the most broken out of the whole group. Even if Blackwall were fully a Gray Warden, they're trained against darkspawn and blights... not an army of demons led by a Red Lyrium-infused Tevinter tyrant. Now he becomes just another chevalier living through what might amount to the End Times. And when people threw him at everything else, they probably forced him to come clean about why he's not what they think he is, meaning that he also has to deal with the guilt of his past on top of an impending Apocalypse. His struggle is against being proven partially useless, overwhelming shame, and is more mental than physical. As for Sera, she doesn't care for anything to do with the Fade and is vastly more interested in keeping things fun and lighthearted. You even encounter her in Val Royeaux, meaning she has connections in Orlais as much as she hates the pompous side of its culture, most of whom probably died painfully. Once again, she's woefully under-prepared to deal with an army of demons, and unlike some of the other companions who have official training and battle experience to fall back on, she straight up says all she has is a bow. Her struggle is against seemingly impossible physical odds and an overwhelming wave of death that she's likely never had to deal with before.
"We can go back and change events! The last year will have never happened!" Yeah, exactly! I mean, unless the multiverse theory is correct... Please note, if we succeed but this reality continues on, that does not neccesarily mean the plan did not work!
The Transformation Mirror from the Black Emporium pretty much confirms it, the Inquisitor and Dorian just jumped timelines to timelines to find the one that suits them best.
That reality depends on the Inquisitor leaving the time line for a period of time either dieing or leaving it for a year it would seem, And since they won't back and therefore never left then that future can't happen. However when we start talking about time travel one can easily find an argument that beats mine and another can find another to beat theirs so there's an infinite supply of debate here.
Personally Cassandra, Blackwall, and Sera have the worst reactions because they truly believe that they fail the Herald. Even before you gain their approval for better or for worse, they truly believe in them. And Corypheus and his minions took them away. Special mention goes with Leliana. If the Hero of Ferelden was still alive around the events of the Inquisition, the fact that they didn't come for her in that future pulverized any hopes left in her. If the Hero of Ferelden was dead after Origins, alongside the failed Conclave, Justinia's death, and general distaste towards the state of the world enough that she wants it to be changed, then this would be the moment where her faith is finally shattered. I headcanon my Quizzy who recruited the mages as someone who was traumatized after this and he developed a fear of failure, letting others down, and imagining his clan from afar facing the same fate as his companions if he won't do something about it. He still has nightmares over it, wondering at those people left behind to that bad future or an alternate unvierse.
This quest makes me sad just by the fact that the alternative reality still exists somewhere, the Inquisition still failed, our companions are dead, that REALLY HAPPENED. We - The player and Dorian - were really lucky to just jump to other reality where they can pretend that it never happened.
I love how Dorian is actually silenced by Vivienne's comment at 00:45 like he's never been spoken to in such a sassy manner and is usually on the giving end of such comments 😂
Okay, I don't know how much has been missed, but these aren't all the party comments. I only know that because I played the first part of IHW earlier. When Fiona tells you the arl left, Blackwall says, "Left? An arl would never voluntarily leave his seat." Makes me wonder how much else was missed...
As someone who had Blackwall and Sera with me - yeah... That Prisoncell Scene gave me a hit in the Gutter. I always sided the Templar before. In my current Elf Mage run I sided with the Mages.
*SPOILER ANSWER!* Seeing as how we learn later that Red Lyrium is pretty much normal Lyrium that's been corrupted by the Blight,it probably fucks up a mage's magic,if not the Fade itself,so if Solas could previously travel between the Fade and the real world at will (which I don't think he could,he was just more lucid while dreaming which meant he could interact with the Fade more than most people could) he probably couldn't after being exposed to Red Lyrium for even a short amount of time.Also,while Solas is a god,he's taking on a physical form and has been asleep for a VERY long time,so he's probably not at full strength.
I mean he can use the eluvians and he could enter the crossroads, the place in between the fade and the normal world. He apparently used one at the end.
Henry Wang And where could he use one now. There are only two he knows of. One later in the game, and the one morrigan used in DA:O - which is now broken. They are so unbelievably rare... And what good would it accomplish.
***** Well he go across the cross roads and it seems safe enough for elves. Also depends on your definition of a god. I just happen to very a loose definition of one for dragon age.
He says to Flemeth at the end "I was too weak after my slumber". I figured by the end of the game he gains some of that strength back. Especially after absorbing Mythal. I think the only other one he absorbed pregame was Felassan, but he wasn't a god. So maybe Solas needed someone more powerful. 🤷♀️
Because at that time IHW happened, he was still weak and not yet on his peak. He did sleep for a very, very, very long time after creating the Veil. I mean, he did use Corypheus to open his foci, which required tremendous power to do so.
I never picked this path. Always picked Templars for my main character and can't just play through as anyone else but my self insert. What can I say? I love me.
Vivi: Fiona, dear, your dementia’s showing 😌 Fiona: 😡 Former Grey Warden, my SON ruling Ferelden, and this Orlesian field slave wanna throw shade! Ok, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10...
What reason would there be to keep referring to him as the elder one after the events at Haven? They didn’t know his name before so they just used that title, when they knew his name they used his name going forward, what’s bad about it?
@@lordofmud1) Corypheus only comes to Heaven BECAUSE the inquisitor sealed the breach and "took his mages", IHW takes place before those events. 2) He only revels his identity to the inquisition during his attack. 3) The companions and Leliana get captured at Redcliff, so they wouldn't be present for the attack anyway. This is not bad writing, it's your two braincells competing for 3rd place.
Dang our Inquisitors look alike. Total coincidence though. Anyway, the Redcliffe arc is terrible. Full of plotholes and contradictions. Theirinfall is awesome.
I notice that too. I'm on the BioWare Social Network and I'm baffled by all the IHW praise. Though, I did read one good explanation. The person simply could not get around the idea of hearing about time magic being used to alter the timeline... and then just walking away from that threat to go recruit templars. I have to admit, that is a compelling reason to investigate the mage path. Still, the mage arc is poorly written, and I can't get around that. 1. The fact I am still alive means the time magic can't kill me. Otherwise it would have killed me by now because... it's time magic. It's already happened. Theoretically. 2. The plan to be bait was crap. I would have to first trust Dorian, a Tevinter mage, who just barges in unannounced and claims to be in opposition to Alexius. Riiiiiight. 3. I would have to trust Alexius to not simply ambush and kill me upon first setting foot in the castle. 4. Leliana and her agents would have to basically save my life, and there's just so much that could go wrong there. I agree with your points. Another thing, the bad future also screws up our Heroes and Champions, as well as BioWare's own Morrigan/Kieran/Flemeth thing. It basically proves that without the Herald, Corypheus won the whole damn game. No one was able to stop him. Not the Hero of Ferelden, not the world's armies, not the Qunari, not Flemeth and the old god's soul. So it kind of poops on our Heroes, which I have the biggest problem with. Also, does it mean the Hero fails to discover the cure for the taint? Yeah, the mage path is just a nasty can of worms that has far-reaching implications. I know. None of them give you any INFO about the "future" from your perspective. They say nothing of the dragon that destroys Haven or the red lyrium infected templars. They just mention Celene, which really shouldn't matter in that timeline since all the other nations are basically demolished as well. Cole's involvement was excellent in that mission, and he even helps out in battle as an NPC, which basically makes it a five character party. I agree about not playing the bait. My mage didn't sympathize with the rebellion though. He saw the free mages as foolish for not simply abandoning Fiona to be alone in her idiocy of joining up with Tevinter. I headcanon it to where my mage gave an inspiring speech to the mages at Redcliffe that Fiona knew how to lead them to freedom but did not know how to maintain that freedom or keep them safe. A rebel asks how my mage could suggest they all turn their backs on Fiona after all she did for them. He replies that freedom means being able to choose how and where you live. Following Fiona now out of a sense of loyalty would mean giving up your right to choose, and it would mean accepting actual slavery to Tevinter, a nation that is already despised and mistrusted for its unethical use of magic. If the mages want their choice to be respected by the rest of Thedas then they must prove they can be trusted with that freedom. The Inquisition gets mages regardless, so this is how I explain it in my head. People like Connor, or that elf, or that other guy in front of the griffon statue, or the tranquil, none of those people wanted the Circles to be dissolved. I'm sure the majority felt as they did. Most others simply wanted some practical reforms, which is what my Inquiz was all about. Even set up a mage tower in Skyhold. Also, you're right about the Templars being the better pick. 1. Who would you rather have, soldiers who can fight other soldiers AND dispel magic when fighting mages, or mages who can't fight other soldiers except through magic (an act that the people of Thedas find unforgiveable) and who get pwned by Templars? It's a no-brainer. 2. You get to work with nobles in order to recruit the Templars, and your plan is actually quite tactical. From the moment you arrive the ball is in your court. 3. Getting the Templars automatically puts you in a high vantage against the Chantry clerics. They need the Templars to protect them, and the Inquisition has them. Allying with the Inquisition is thus an inevitability. And a related point, 4. If you don't go to Redcliffe, we know for a fact that Dorian does go back there to deal with Alexius in his own way since you won't. Logically he would have help from Felix, sick as he is. Also, the Ferelden monarch(s) show up to kick Alexius out, which he complies with. And so it is reasonable to conclude that at some point Dorian and Felix manage to get the time amulet away from Alexius and destroy it, thus saving the day. This would also put the Ferelden monarch(s) on the Venatori shit list, which fits better with the storylines dealing with the assassination attempts in Denerim by Venatori agents. And that is how I rationalize that. Also, even though we can't know this at the time, from an out-of-game perspective, it's better to save the good Templars from being deceived into corruption by red lyrium. They are just following duty and doing what they think will save the world. The mages on the other hand are just willingly marching into a cage that they can EASILY choose to avoid by going elsewhere. And don't get me wrong, I do at least go to the tavern to meet with Fiona, and if I recall correctly, EVERY companion tells Fiona what an idiot she is. Even Solas, who agrees with the mages having freedom in theory, says that Fiona is foolish to ally with Tevinter. If you don't mind me asking, did you make the Templars full allies or did you disband the order and absorb them into the Inquisition?
congokong87 Thanks. I am Dai Grepher on BSN. Added you as a friend. I agree with those conscription reasons completely. My mage had problems with the templars in his youth, but had been okay with them for like 20 years leading up to Inquisition (Ostwick Circle was peaceful in the canon). His rationale was that the Templars were leaderless and directionless. They needed the Inquisition to organize them and focus them on the right things. If they prove themselves worthy of autonomy, then the Inquisition can always release them later to become their own separate order, or just give them back to the Chantry. My impression was that Alexius went back in time to get to the mages before the Inquisition could, and he did this by having Venatori pose as Templars. When he arrived with his forces, the fake Templars turned back. Or maybe there was cooperation with Samson on this, and the Templars were real, but controlled by him. Still, I don't cut Fiona any slack. Maybe the Vints deserved her gratitude, but not the mages in her charge. But why are they no longer useful? Because Dorian and Felix stopped Alexius and his plan to alter time. I mean, logically, they would have no reason to kill Alexius. He accomplished his mission of getting the mages to ally with the Venatori. The only clue we get as to why Alexius would be killed by Corypheus is in the alternate timeline. He is to be killed for failure to alter time to undo the mistakes made at the Temple of Andraste. But as we see, Corypheus gave Alexius a full year to do this in the alternate timeline. So the only reason I can think of is if Dorian and Felix stopped Alexius' plans for good. Thus he had no way of completing his mission to alter time. Thus he lost all use to Corypheus at a much earlier point in the true timeline. I don't know. I don't think it matters what path BioWare would take, because it all basically comes out the same. The main problem with the mage path is that even if you stop Alexius and return to the present, there was still basically a timeline in which everyone suffered. Plus, the whole thing brings up bad memories of the Zelda timeline for me. It's just... argh! Anyway, the only reason I could see them going with the mage path is to spare Fiona. Otherwise she dies at Haven. Unless of course BioWare is smart and writes it to be that her imposter was the one we killed in Haven, not the real Fiona. I hated how that storyline was never resolved. Who was that Fiona in Val Royeaux? I agree that siding with templars who want to do right is better politically than siding with mages who want to overthrow the system. 1. Meh. I played both paths. I did the Templars first (canonly) all the way through to the end of Haven, then the mages (non-canonly) all the way through to the end of Haven. The only creepy part was seeing the behemoth and then seeing the name of the enemy as Denam. 2. There is no difference whatsoever. Same dialogue and everything. I think people only think of him as more of a threat because he's spreading red lyrium to people and turning them into monsters, whereas in the templar path he's just using regular people. Still, we fight red templars at Theirinfall, and I think they are more threatening in that setting than they are at Haven because you actually get to see the moment of change. And of course we know Corypheus is behind it all once we see him. He has red lyrium growing out of his face. 3. Actually I don't think the Venatori become known until after the breach is closed and they attack Haven. Up until that point all we know is that the mages plan to go to Tevinter and Alexius plots to trap the Herald. Remember Dorian's line, "They call themselves the Venatori, in service to something called the Elder One". This is outside the gate at Haven. So yeah, before that point it would have just been the Inquisition vs. a Tevinter mage. There was no indication of a large scale army at that time. And I agree, like you wrote, the Ferelden throne was better suited to deal with the Tevinter mage. We did have word that Arl Teagan was riding to Denerim to get military support from the crown.
congokong87 LOL! I'm in the wikia too, and you can't trust most of the stuff that's being posted about Inquisition. It's still new and much of it lacks confirmation. I'm sure the Vints killed Alexius and Felix, perhaps under Calpernia's orders, but I think the reason why is because Alexius failed in his time magic experiment. In the bad future (calling it "bad future" reminds me of Sonic CD) Corypheus gave Alexius multiple chances and a full year to get it right. Logically, the same amount of time would have been given. It wasn't. Which means Alexius must not have had the ability to conduct any more time experiments. I can only conclude that this is because of Dorian and Felix getting the amulet from Alexius. Everything else in the timeline happens the same way. The Ferelden monarch(s) showing up, Alexius being forced out of Redcliffe for the time being, leaving with Felix and the amulet. All points to Alexius being given the chance to implement that bad future, or at least lay the groundwork for it. But instead he is killed. Why? His main mission to get the mages was a success. So I can only conclude that Dorian made all the difference, as in the bad future timeline Dorian was absent until 9:42. Also, Dorian's plan to stop Alexius isn't revealed to him until Redcliffe. No Herald to show up at Redcliffe? No Dorian. Thus Dorian takes Alexius by surprise as he's leaving Redcliffe with the mages and manages to destroy the time amulet. Thus making Alexius worthless and allowing Calpernia to take the lead. As for Felix, he stays with his father for obvious reasons. He is going to die from the taint soon and wants to spend that time with his father. I assume the two tried to run from the Vints, but Calpernia tracked them down and dispatched them easily. Siding with mages doesn't explain why we don't see Calpernia ever again. Or do we? Also, I realize we don't ever meet Calpernia if we side with mages, so it's as if she doesn't exist, but from a storyline perspective we should see her. I mean, with Samson it's easily explained. We prevented the creation of most Red Templars, which means there is no use for Samson. Plus, allowing Theirinfall to be taken by the Inquisition was technically Sanson's fault. Whereas losing the mages would be Alexius' fault rather than Calpernia's. It's possible Alexius turned on the Venatori after losing the amulet to Felix and Dorian (in my theory). He would argue that he was at least able to deliver the mages to the Elder One. That might spare his life, but Alexius might then demand the cure for Felix, to which Corypheus would say that the cure was to be in exchange for the time magic. This might cause Alexius to lose all hope and just fire off a last ditch effort to take down Corypheus for not helping Felix even though he had the power to do so. Ooh, wouldn't that be some twisted shit if Alexius attacked Corypheus and he allowed himself to be killed by him just so Alexius could see Felix be turned into Corypheus' new host body? Ha! I think I have another fanfic to write. :) Ah. That could be true. The one we met was the real Fiona, but after we met her Alexius went back in time to deceive the mages, thus Fiona never went to Val Royeax. It is possible that Fiona left alone. One woman would be harder to spot. So I don't take issue with that. The problem here is how we remember Fiona's offer. If Alexius changed the timeline to where we never meet her, then we should not have met her. I always thought a timeline change was more... instant, for those in that timeline. And why did Fiona say that their meeting seemed familiar even thought she didn't experience it? Also, how did the Val Royeax Fiona know to tell the Herald to meet her at the Gull and Lantern at the designated time if that doesn't happen unless Alexius already scheduled the meeting? Fiona didn't set the meeting until after going to Val Royeax to observe the Herald's actions in response to the Chantry's proclamations. So how would Alexius know to set a trap for a Herald that Fiona never invited to Redcliffe? My current theory is that the Val Royeax Fiona was the Envy Demon impersonating her, or perhaps a different envy demon. While the Lucius in Val Royeax was the real Lucius. That would make the Fiona at Haven the real one though. So maybe it's a different envy demon, or a time doppelganger. 1. I think seeing Theirinfall is more disturbing than reading about it. I haven't played DA2 yet, so I had no idea who Samson was. I figured he was some badass when Cullen said that. Doesn't matter to by canon playthrough though. To me he was just "S" on a letter in Theirinfall. 2. Hmm, maybe the bad future does have a certain terror to it, but I think people overlook the terror to be had in the concept of a demon trying to take over your psyche. If you lose to it, then it takes your being and uses it to destroy the Inquisition from the inside, ruling as a tyrant. You get a taste of what it will do when you see the companions. Any response you have to these situations only makes the demon stronger. I think that's a better terror storyline than a grim future that you plan to prevent right from the start. That future just never feels real. I don't understand the "filler" point. I think Envy calls him that for purposes of veneration, or because he doesn't know Corypheus' real name. It makes sense for him to hide his identity until he's ready to strike. Thing is, Varric should have recognized him in the mage path. So to have him call Corypheus "The Elder One" makes no sense. Worst of all, if you don't take any companions with you to Redcliffe, Varric and Solas show up there automatically. 3. I didn't remember that, but I'll take your word for it. Well in that case, you could just dismiss Felix's claim as exaggeration.
congokong87 He didn't do it alone. He had Felix to help him, and really that's all he needed. All they had to do was get the amulet away from Alexius. But in the bad future Felix was in no condition to help out. But even then Alexius was ready to give up so long as Leliana didn't hurt Felix. I doubt Dorian would crow about it at all. He had no proof of what Alexius could do with the amulet, nor did he have proof that he stopped him. It was just another silent victory for him. The Herald was alive on the templar path, but that's not Alexius' fault. He was never given the chance to attack the Herald in that case. Felix becomes a husk because he is infected with... the taint? It's either the taint, or a taint related sickness. It isn't specifically explained. But I think he's killed defending his father in the templar path. Alexius loses the amulet, knows there's no hope, and so when Corypheus comes to kill him he attacks and Felix tries to defend him. True that the Venatori would not have such large numbers in that case, but most Venatori were soldiers and assassins. There weren't that many mages in their ranks regardless. There should still be a place for her somewhere. But there isn't. That's another reason why I don't like the mage path. Samson's rejoining the templars is like Anders' joining the Wardens. Even if you don't recruit him in Awakening he still becomes a Warden somehow. And still meets Justice somehow. I think they should have used someone else for Samson. In fact, Carroll probably would have been a better pick. I'll check on 3. EDIT: In any case, the mission statement of In Hushed Whispers does mention the Venatori cult. Still, this is a point when there's no real reason to suspect that the cult is a powerful threat. So that's how I dismiss siding with the mages.
Игры
![Party comments [The Descent DLC] | Dragon Age: Inquisition](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/BnupfTUVHgs/mqdefault.jpg)
Everyone: ew Tevinter
Bull: careful he's pretty
I imagine him saying 'pretty' the way he describe dawnstone. prettyyyy
@@2Btoobee it'd just sound like he's thirsting over Dorian, makes it better if they romance each other😂
Foreshadowing.
'Fiona dear, your dementia is showing.'
Ok, Vivi made me laugh, for once.
I would like her a lot if she was like this all the time, lol
daff152 it's all that disapproval. It would be much easier to enjoy her good moments and ignore the rest if there wasn't always a "Vivienne Greatly Disapproves" floating over my screen.
I've never had a huge problem getting approval from Vivienne. THing is, personal freedom and such is nice. But people with superpowers/magic that can easily harm innocents if untrained kind of makes personal freedom a moot point in the long run.
@@Pfisiar22 Just for lulz and giggles, I opened my savefile pre-Skyhold with an editor to see the numerical amout of Vivienne's approval. Turns out I was above 75 even before Cory attacked, lol :D
@@Pfisiar22 I'm always able to get very good approval with Vivienne even as pro mage. It's not hard.
Varric immediately realizing you’re real because he’s a dwarf is a nice touch
Solas: "You would think such understanding would stop me from making such horrible mistakes. You would be wrong." Bioware hid Solas's secret so well, but you have to love the subtle hints they gave us. I totally missed this in my first play through.
That hint though, its mind blowing after you play trespasser and the whole game again, to see hints everywhere.
And yet, after seeing Thedas with no veil and ruled by "Evanuris" Corypheus, Solas still wants to tear it down.
captmoroni solas didnt no one did you stopped it from happening. Hell you and dorian see a part and hear stories but none of your party would remember anything since its only you and dorian who got sent foward.
captmoroni
Wrong. The veil here wasnt gone it was just torn. Still there but only corypheus was allowing certain creatures through.
Only the anchor (besides Solas and The evanuris using other methods) is able to fully tear the veil down. The Evanuris is not corypheus my guy. If the Evanuris were there we would see it, they are so far beyond corypheus's level it isnt funny.
I'd assume that in time (more than just one year) we would see them but since Bioware didnt want to use that yet because that will be for DA4 for Evanuris when they will have their grand entrance and will be the main battle with or against Fen Harel to settle their 8000 year old war
The world actually without the veil is different because the Fade is actually a normal part of nature. What we see here is just corypheus benifiting off a breach using specific spirits, not the entire fade.
What solas did by creating the veil, created the blight (the magisters the accidently released it when they entered the fade) and the Veil slowly is killing off most nature related things. And the veil is slowly suffocating the planet as the Fade is what gives life.
Thats why the veil is a mistake and why it will go down. The veil properly removed is just restoring nature. But what happened with the breach was just a chaotic tear because the veil still was there.
@@nelson_rebel3907 Personally, I thought the Blight was a result of the Fade reflecting emotion. Since the magisters were all corrupt to the core, they were reshaped to reflect it. And corruption spreads, which is why the Blight spreads.
You can tell Blackwall and Sera were the one's who were most broken by what happened to them in Alexius's future its really sad to see them like this.
+Simran Whitham verrik really held it together
Yeah varrick is the best he is a story teller got great imagination :)
Sera could break her head and I wouldn't care.
Cassandra seemed pretty broken to me.
@@SeventhheavenDK No one's expecting u to
The Iron Bull's and Leliana's responses are what really fuck with this quest. They both say that this is /their/ present, not some alternate universe as it appears to the player. They lived through it all, without the Inquisitor. Who are you to say you really know the damage, as this is only a burdened stroll, not a damning lifetime?
"I ran out of arrows making them pay" this is the only line that broke my heart
She sounds so sad , It's like she really thought of you as good friend
Sera is baby and I ruined many, many a body making sure that she was only ever smiles and laughter. I kicked myself so hard for bringing her on this mission...
@@Hinatafanboy
Well I mean everyone in that future suffered the same fate, so don't kick yourself too hard
That particular line made me think that yes, Sera is a jerk, but she didn't become one overnight without any reason. Instead of writing her off, I try my best to think and feel things on her perspective, try at least to be patient while dealing with her because one thing for sure she has been through a lot at such tender age (and judging by her past, it does enough that it influences her actions throughout her appearance).
Creates a year of absolute human agony and misery all across thedas, makes sarcastic jokes.
littlee300 Inquisitor Trevelyian - Looking on the bright side since 9:32 Dragon. :)
+Whoami691 Always look on the bright side of life
He's got demons and gods...and i've got a bow. My heart broke a little there
"The city is flying and we're fighting an army of robots. And I have a bow and arrow. Nothing makes sense."
Lelianna is the most painful in this one. Like, I didn't even see this until my second playthrough, I went with the templars on my first. She is having none of your shit and is still the most badass one in the room
I played it so many times and I cry every single time. She's so fierce.
Personally this is the scariest part in the game. I'd hate to travel to a future where my friends are suffering from loads of shit.
+Dylan Fox I broke my heart to see Leliana like that!!! My beautiful bard turned hardened ghoul, makes me want to fling myself at the nearest high dragon!!!
A future where constipation rules all? Terrible future
Lucky for me I have no friends! Haha! I'm safe. I think.
This scene, honestly, hit a raw nerve with a lot of fans judging from their reactions. I have several characters that would do this quest but honestly I don't think I could do it again.
It crops up in other places as well, Crestwood when fighting Templars before closing the rift at sea for example, or Empres De Leon that has this and Champions of the Just at the same time as some kind of Inquisition Nightmare Hybrid Mix. Nasty.
The way their voices were affected...they sound so corrupted,so broken...wrong... my heart is shattered in pieces
"Fiona, your dementia is showing" mwahahaha
Fr0st1989 I'm stealing this to say to people 😭😂😂😂
Man I wish I can use that as an insult. Sadly my dear deceased grandmother had one. Wouldn't want her to haunt me in my sleep.
"Well...........Shit."
KyoNanashi that's when trevelyan knew he fucked up 😂😂 sorry I had to
This whole thing--Varric is like: LOL This is small shit.
3:17
"Demons and gods and....I've got a bow"
Hawkeye? Is that you?
Solas: Holy shitsnacks, you're alive. Wow! IE - the only time you will ever see Solas shocked by something.
Meanwhile, Blackwall cries his big bearded emo tears.
I just did this and I must say.
Blackwall's breakdown made me cry. A lot.
“And this, chargers, is how I met your dad”
I never know if I love or hate Vivienne, but she is a force of nature.
It’s not until you see this cutscene and the Fade’s with Sera that you realize something
She’s always been feigning her confidence, she can only act like this because nobles always seem to enable her behavior with how they react. Demons, don’t respond to jokes, quips, or a little jab with death threats. The Fade isn’t something you can traverse naturally. The fact she can’t control either makes her worthless, all she can do is kill, but even then she is still limited in that regard. Without the things that she can rely on to build her confidence, she becomes nothing. And being nothing is what she fears most.
She is nothing in this realm
You truly explain Sera's greatest fear. No one seems to get it.
I regretted bringing poor Sera on this quest. She has the hardest time dealing with all the magic and Fade and demon stuff. I never bring her to the Fade.
I doubt I'll ever be bringing Blackwall to Redcliffe castle, either. He sounds so broken.
PeanutButterZombie00 nahh cuz after you can tell him how he honored the wardens by fighting to his last breath
@@rokkfel4999 It's weird cause I got this convo even after not having Blackwall along for this quest. Either it was bugged that time or it's possible to say that even if you don't take him.
gwirith14 might be bugged or like some weird canon thing is that all companions go with ya?
@@rokkfel4999 I think the second option's true, cause you can talk about Orlesian Ball or other quests with the companions you didn't bring along yet it still sounds like they were there. Never brought Solas for Wicked Eyes and he still says his things about court intrigue etc.
gwirith14 probably right kinda wish they all showed up to it though
I've only just played this game and I was kind of sure I'd hate Dorian. I had only seen pictures of him and I knew he was Tevinter and I waited for him to show and fuck things up.
Then he showed and I fell in love with the way he talks xD "I'm ever so much more handsome than a cockroach" Dorian was one of my favourites :3
This moment was what made me see Sera differently. It was heartbreaking. And Blackwall became the hottest piece of action, right there. Born leader, the way he takes charge in the end.
Sera literally breaks my heart in future Redcliffe
She’s my little sarcastic friend, it makes me wanna cry too.
I love The Iron Bull...
Sera really shows a large part of herself here a lonely lil girl....aww ...now im gonna make my inquisitor seem like a big brother now
Solas and Vivienne could just fadestep out of their prison. How can you imprison a mage without templars?
You think in almost a thousand years the world hadn't figured out a way to create a magic-dampening cage? :P
@Eagle Seidr not really, one of the reasons it may be hard to guess Solas' identity and motives is because it all sounds so fantastic. The passage of time makes it so that the gods of old are not very real in people's minds, even to the dalish. It was already so in a way even for Corypheus and he is pretty old himself. Imagine one of your friends suddenly comes up and says "yo I'm Jesus but I was only ever human". That's how these people would feel about it. Besides, an all over demon invasion puts elf problems in second rank, since even removing the veil wouldn't fix anything at this point.
Last time I checked Fadestep doesn't go through obstacles. 😂
Fade Step doesn't make you pass through walls. Wtf are you talking about? 😂
Well...shit.
That made me laugh.
Some of the conversations are really funny.
Yes yes Sera's is heartbreaking Blackwall's is sad but I think I speak for everybody when I say:
WHERE WAS THE HUG OPTION FOR EACH OF THEM?!
4:33 Blackwall seems the most broken... =(
Definitely Sera. She made less sense than usual.
503leafy They are all broken, they have been in a living hell for the last year...
@@FullmetalHeart20 I'd actually say that both of them are fitting of being called the most broken out of the whole group.
Even if Blackwall were fully a Gray Warden, they're trained against darkspawn and blights... not an army of demons led by a Red Lyrium-infused Tevinter tyrant. Now he becomes just another chevalier living through what might amount to the End Times. And when people threw him at everything else, they probably forced him to come clean about why he's not what they think he is, meaning that he also has to deal with the guilt of his past on top of an impending Apocalypse. His struggle is against being proven partially useless, overwhelming shame, and is more mental than physical.
As for Sera, she doesn't care for anything to do with the Fade and is vastly more interested in keeping things fun and lighthearted. You even encounter her in Val Royeaux, meaning she has connections in Orlais as much as she hates the pompous side of its culture, most of whom probably died painfully. Once again, she's woefully under-prepared to deal with an army of demons, and unlike some of the other companions who have official training and battle experience to fall back on, she straight up says all she has is a bow. Her struggle is against seemingly impossible physical odds and an overwhelming wave of death that she's likely never had to deal with before.
varric just takes it all in stride..gotta love it
"We can go back and change events! The last year will have never happened!"
Yeah, exactly! I mean, unless the multiverse theory is correct...
Please note, if we succeed but this reality continues on, that does not neccesarily mean the plan did not work!
The Transformation Mirror from the Black Emporium pretty much confirms it, the Inquisitor and Dorian just jumped timelines to timelines to find the one that suits them best.
That reality depends on the Inquisitor leaving the time line for a period of time either dieing or leaving it for a year it would seem, And since they won't back and therefore never left then that future can't happen. However when we start talking about time travel one can easily find an argument that beats mine and another can find another to beat theirs so there's an infinite supply of debate here.
As much as I don't like Sera, her fear here hurt my soul :(
Wait wait wait...
Solas...?
But... o.o?
He wasn't strong enough
Sshhh x)
AnUnculturedLittlePotato i think its more that they didnt want to foreshadow the whole solas thing :D
AnUnculturedLittlePotato Solas didn't have the power to stop Cory, probably.
---spoilers---
that's why Solas gave the orb to Coryphy
The fact that these guys get stranded for a year kinda makes me glad I chose the templars xD
Thank you for uploading this! I've been wondering what the others would say in the prison! You're made of awesome! :)
I took sera with me when i played last night...ugh i wanted to hug her and never let go 😭
Personally Cassandra, Blackwall, and Sera have the worst reactions because they truly believe that they fail the Herald. Even before you gain their approval for better or for worse, they truly believe in them. And Corypheus and his minions took them away.
Special mention goes with Leliana. If the Hero of Ferelden was still alive around the events of the Inquisition, the fact that they didn't come for her in that future pulverized any hopes left in her. If the Hero of Ferelden was dead after Origins, alongside the failed Conclave, Justinia's death, and general distaste towards the state of the world enough that she wants it to be changed, then this would be the moment where her faith is finally shattered.
I headcanon my Quizzy who recruited the mages as someone who was traumatized after this and he developed a fear of failure, letting others down, and imagining his clan from afar facing the same fate as his companions if he won't do something about it. He still has nightmares over it, wondering at those people left behind to that bad future or an alternate unvierse.
Viv is badass in this ngl
I always wondered what happened to Mythal and Morrigan in this timeline.
Cassandra’s and Sera’s prison dialogue break my heart
This quest makes me sad just by the fact that the alternative reality still exists somewhere, the Inquisition still failed, our companions are dead, that REALLY HAPPENED. We - The player and Dorian - were really lucky to just jump to other reality where they can pretend that it never happened.
I don't think it's certain whether or not the alternate universe theory exists in the Dragon Age Universe.
I'm sure it's fine :)
@@orthellion2347 The most logical answer is that they jumped to another reality.
I’m not sure which interpretation make me sadder, that all these future versions of the companions die, or that this future still exists…
I love how Dorian is actually silenced by Vivienne's comment at 00:45 like he's never been spoken to in such a sassy manner and is usually on the giving end of such comments 😂
Sera and Blackwall lol
Don Quixote And Sancho Panza
I never bring Sera, i don't really like her. But after I see her reaction in this, man I feel so bad for her 😭😭
Okay, I don't know how much has been missed, but these aren't all the party comments. I only know that because I played the first part of IHW earlier.
When Fiona tells you the arl left, Blackwall says, "Left? An arl would never voluntarily leave his seat."
Makes me wonder how much else was missed...
Everyone is "Oh my god, you are alive, impossible"
Vivienne: "F off to your master, peasant", she is something else
The one with sera is cute and quite sad and so is cassandras
Jesus look at this quality, I'm so jealous!! I have to get a better pc goddamnit!!
My inquisitor was behind Cassandra, to see her like this hurted him the most.
As someone who had Blackwall and Sera with me - yeah... That Prisoncell Scene gave me a hit in the Gutter. I always sided the Templar before. In my current Elf Mage run I sided with the Mages.
0:51 lol
"Well....Shit."
I mean, yeah
The future part is weird. The red lyrium voice thing doesnt work for me
Viv, no reaction to time travel, but the destination... curious. She seems to always know more than let on.
You missed the banter at the end after Alistair and/or Anora show up.
Honestly Varric took everything quite well, all things considering.
U all should Do Bull and sera when u Do this one
Now a question: Did they change clothes during this whole year or were they pooping in their cells and in their clothes? Cuz if so... the smell...
Ughhhhh youtube auto captions a very bad thing for nickers
How do I get these scenes?
@nellouse1 So, it's the mage siding story arc?
@nellouse1 Ah, that's why I didn't get this.
Spoiler question!!
Wait, if Solas is a god, couldn't he do go between the fade and reality to escape?
*SPOILER ANSWER!*
Seeing as how we learn later that Red Lyrium is pretty much normal Lyrium that's been corrupted by the Blight,it probably fucks up a mage's magic,if not the Fade itself,so if Solas could previously travel between the Fade and the real world at will (which I don't think he could,he was just more lucid while dreaming which meant he could interact with the Fade more than most people could) he probably couldn't after being exposed to Red Lyrium for even a short amount of time.Also,while Solas is a god,he's taking on a physical form and has been asleep for a VERY long time,so he's probably not at full strength.
I mean he can use the eluvians and he could enter the crossroads, the place in between the fade and the normal world. He apparently used one at the end.
Henry Wang And where could he use one now. There are only two he knows of. One later in the game, and the one morrigan used in DA:O - which is now broken.
They are so unbelievably rare... And what good would it accomplish.
*****
Well he go across the cross roads and it seems safe enough for elves. Also depends on your definition of a god. I just happen to very a loose definition of one for dragon age.
He says to Flemeth at the end "I was too weak after my slumber". I figured by the end of the game he gains some of that strength back. Especially after absorbing Mythal. I think the only other one he absorbed pregame was Felassan, but he wasn't a god. So maybe Solas needed someone more powerful. 🤷♀️
Spoilers
Why is Fen’ Harel playing along with this? He could escape this no problem.
right? like what the hell, he could escape or something
Because at that time IHW happened, he was still weak and not yet on his peak. He did sleep for a very, very, very long time after creating the Veil. I mean, he did use Corypheus to open his foci, which required tremendous power to do so.
They expect me to believe solas just waited in a cell doing nothing? What about mythal/Flemeth or morrigan?
And people wonder why I don't like mages messing with time and magister lunatics will crap like this ever end
I never picked this path. Always picked Templars for my main character and can't just play through as anyone else but my self insert. What can I say? I love me.
As much as I love this mission, I can’t let barris be turned into a behemoth. The mages made a choice, the Templars were lied to.
Anything to see Sera suffer lmao
Iron Bull reviews: demon army. 1/10. Do not recommend.
Vivi: Fiona, dear, your dementia’s showing 😌
Fiona: 😡 Former Grey Warden, my SON ruling Ferelden, and this Orlesian field slave wanna throw shade! Ok, 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10...
So tell me you're a racist without telling me you're a racist field slave sweet Jesus Christ
How hilarious that they keep saying the elder one. But after the reveal at Haven they use his name for the rest of the game. Talk about bad writing.
What reason would there be to keep referring to him as the elder one after the events at Haven? They didn’t know his name before so they just used that title, when they knew his name they used his name going forward, what’s bad about it?
The inquisitor gets sent forward in time 5 years. Yet none of the captives use his name.
Then, after Haven, no one uses the name "Elder One".
@@lordofmud 1 year, not 5. And no one uses the title after Haven because Corypheus revealed his name to the Inquisitor during their confrontation.
So why didn't the captives use his name? Because after Haven everyone just starts using it. Bad writing all around.
@@lordofmud1) Corypheus only comes to Heaven BECAUSE the inquisitor sealed the breach and "took his mages", IHW takes place before those events.
2) He only revels his identity to the inquisition during his attack.
3) The companions and Leliana get captured at Redcliff, so they wouldn't be present for the attack anyway.
This is not bad writing, it's your two braincells competing for 3rd place.
Dang our Inquisitors look alike. Total coincidence though.
Anyway, the Redcliffe arc is terrible. Full of plotholes and contradictions. Theirinfall is awesome.
I notice that too. I'm on the BioWare Social Network and I'm baffled by all the IHW praise. Though, I did read one good explanation. The person simply could not get around the idea of hearing about time magic being used to alter the timeline... and then just walking away from that threat to go recruit templars. I have to admit, that is a compelling reason to investigate the mage path. Still, the mage arc is poorly written, and I can't get around that. 1. The fact I am still alive means the time magic can't kill me. Otherwise it would have killed me by now because... it's time magic. It's already happened. Theoretically. 2. The plan to be bait was crap. I would have to first trust Dorian, a Tevinter mage, who just barges in unannounced and claims to be in opposition to Alexius. Riiiiiight. 3. I would have to trust Alexius to not simply ambush and kill me upon first setting foot in the castle. 4. Leliana and her agents would have to basically save my life, and there's just so much that could go wrong there.
I agree with your points. Another thing, the bad future also screws up our Heroes and Champions, as well as BioWare's own Morrigan/Kieran/Flemeth thing. It basically proves that without the Herald, Corypheus won the whole damn game. No one was able to stop him. Not the Hero of Ferelden, not the world's armies, not the Qunari, not Flemeth and the old god's soul. So it kind of poops on our Heroes, which I have the biggest problem with. Also, does it mean the Hero fails to discover the cure for the taint? Yeah, the mage path is just a nasty can of worms that has far-reaching implications.
I know. None of them give you any INFO about the "future" from your perspective. They say nothing of the dragon that destroys Haven or the red lyrium infected templars. They just mention Celene, which really shouldn't matter in that timeline since all the other nations are basically demolished as well.
Cole's involvement was excellent in that mission, and he even helps out in battle as an NPC, which basically makes it a five character party.
I agree about not playing the bait. My mage didn't sympathize with the rebellion though. He saw the free mages as foolish for not simply abandoning Fiona to be alone in her idiocy of joining up with Tevinter. I headcanon it to where my mage gave an inspiring speech to the mages at Redcliffe that Fiona knew how to lead them to freedom but did not know how to maintain that freedom or keep them safe. A rebel asks how my mage could suggest they all turn their backs on Fiona after all she did for them. He replies that freedom means being able to choose how and where you live. Following Fiona now out of a sense of loyalty would mean giving up your right to choose, and it would mean accepting actual slavery to Tevinter, a nation that is already despised and mistrusted for its unethical use of magic. If the mages want their choice to be respected by the rest of Thedas then they must prove they can be trusted with that freedom.
The Inquisition gets mages regardless, so this is how I explain it in my head. People like Connor, or that elf, or that other guy in front of the griffon statue, or the tranquil, none of those people wanted the Circles to be dissolved. I'm sure the majority felt as they did. Most others simply wanted some practical reforms, which is what my Inquiz was all about. Even set up a mage tower in Skyhold.
Also, you're right about the Templars being the better pick. 1. Who would you rather have, soldiers who can fight other soldiers AND dispel magic when fighting mages, or mages who can't fight other soldiers except through magic (an act that the people of Thedas find unforgiveable) and who get pwned by Templars? It's a no-brainer. 2. You get to work with nobles in order to recruit the Templars, and your plan is actually quite tactical. From the moment you arrive the ball is in your court. 3. Getting the Templars automatically puts you in a high vantage against the Chantry clerics. They need the Templars to protect them, and the Inquisition has them. Allying with the Inquisition is thus an inevitability.
And a related point, 4. If you don't go to Redcliffe, we know for a fact that Dorian does go back there to deal with Alexius in his own way since you won't. Logically he would have help from Felix, sick as he is. Also, the Ferelden monarch(s) show up to kick Alexius out, which he complies with. And so it is reasonable to conclude that at some point Dorian and Felix manage to get the time amulet away from Alexius and destroy it, thus saving the day. This would also put the Ferelden monarch(s) on the Venatori shit list, which fits better with the storylines dealing with the assassination attempts in Denerim by Venatori agents. And that is how I rationalize that.
Also, even though we can't know this at the time, from an out-of-game perspective, it's better to save the good Templars from being deceived into corruption by red lyrium. They are just following duty and doing what they think will save the world. The mages on the other hand are just willingly marching into a cage that they can EASILY choose to avoid by going elsewhere.
And don't get me wrong, I do at least go to the tavern to meet with Fiona, and if I recall correctly, EVERY companion tells Fiona what an idiot she is. Even Solas, who agrees with the mages having freedom in theory, says that Fiona is foolish to ally with Tevinter.
If you don't mind me asking, did you make the Templars full allies or did you disband the order and absorb them into the Inquisition?
congokong87
Thanks. I am Dai Grepher on BSN. Added you as a friend.
I agree with those conscription reasons completely. My mage had problems with the templars in his youth, but had been okay with them for like 20 years leading up to Inquisition (Ostwick Circle was peaceful in the canon). His rationale was that the Templars were leaderless and directionless. They needed the Inquisition to organize them and focus them on the right things. If they prove themselves worthy of autonomy, then the Inquisition can always release them later to become their own separate order, or just give them back to the Chantry.
My impression was that Alexius went back in time to get to the mages before the Inquisition could, and he did this by having Venatori pose as Templars. When he arrived with his forces, the fake Templars turned back. Or maybe there was cooperation with Samson on this, and the Templars were real, but controlled by him. Still, I don't cut Fiona any slack. Maybe the Vints deserved her gratitude, but not the mages in her charge.
But why are they no longer useful? Because Dorian and Felix stopped Alexius and his plan to alter time. I mean, logically, they would have no reason to kill Alexius. He accomplished his mission of getting the mages to ally with the Venatori. The only clue we get as to why Alexius would be killed by Corypheus is in the alternate timeline. He is to be killed for failure to alter time to undo the mistakes made at the Temple of Andraste. But as we see, Corypheus gave Alexius a full year to do this in the alternate timeline. So the only reason I can think of is if Dorian and Felix stopped Alexius' plans for good. Thus he had no way of completing his mission to alter time. Thus he lost all use to Corypheus at a much earlier point in the true timeline.
I don't know. I don't think it matters what path BioWare would take, because it all basically comes out the same. The main problem with the mage path is that even if you stop Alexius and return to the present, there was still basically a timeline in which everyone suffered. Plus, the whole thing brings up bad memories of the Zelda timeline for me. It's just... argh! Anyway, the only reason I could see them going with the mage path is to spare Fiona. Otherwise she dies at Haven. Unless of course BioWare is smart and writes it to be that her imposter was the one we killed in Haven, not the real Fiona. I hated how that storyline was never resolved. Who was that Fiona in Val Royeaux?
I agree that siding with templars who want to do right is better politically than siding with mages who want to overthrow the system.
1. Meh. I played both paths. I did the Templars first (canonly) all the way through to the end of Haven, then the mages (non-canonly) all the way through to the end of Haven. The only creepy part was seeing the behemoth and then seeing the name of the enemy as Denam.
2. There is no difference whatsoever. Same dialogue and everything. I think people only think of him as more of a threat because he's spreading red lyrium to people and turning them into monsters, whereas in the templar path he's just using regular people. Still, we fight red templars at Theirinfall, and I think they are more threatening in that setting than they are at Haven because you actually get to see the moment of change. And of course we know Corypheus is behind it all once we see him. He has red lyrium growing out of his face.
3. Actually I don't think the Venatori become known until after the breach is closed and they attack Haven. Up until that point all we know is that the mages plan to go to Tevinter and Alexius plots to trap the Herald. Remember Dorian's line, "They call themselves the Venatori, in service to something called the Elder One". This is outside the gate at Haven. So yeah, before that point it would have just been the Inquisition vs. a Tevinter mage. There was no indication of a large scale army at that time. And I agree, like you wrote, the Ferelden throne was better suited to deal with the Tevinter mage. We did have word that Arl Teagan was riding to Denerim to get military support from the crown.
congokong87 LOL! I'm in the wikia too, and you can't trust most of the stuff that's being posted about Inquisition. It's still new and much of it lacks confirmation. I'm sure the Vints killed Alexius and Felix, perhaps under Calpernia's orders, but I think the reason why is because Alexius failed in his time magic experiment. In the bad future (calling it "bad future" reminds me of Sonic CD) Corypheus gave Alexius multiple chances and a full year to get it right. Logically, the same amount of time would have been given. It wasn't. Which means Alexius must not have had the ability to conduct any more time experiments. I can only conclude that this is because of Dorian and Felix getting the amulet from Alexius. Everything else in the timeline happens the same way. The Ferelden monarch(s) showing up, Alexius being forced out of Redcliffe for the time being, leaving with Felix and the amulet. All points to Alexius being given the chance to implement that bad future, or at least lay the groundwork for it. But instead he is killed. Why? His main mission to get the mages was a success. So I can only conclude that Dorian made all the difference, as in the bad future timeline Dorian was absent until 9:42. Also, Dorian's plan to stop Alexius isn't revealed to him until Redcliffe. No Herald to show up at Redcliffe? No Dorian. Thus Dorian takes Alexius by surprise as he's leaving Redcliffe with the mages and manages to destroy the time amulet. Thus making Alexius worthless and allowing Calpernia to take the lead. As for Felix, he stays with his father for obvious reasons. He is going to die from the taint soon and wants to spend that time with his father. I assume the two tried to run from the Vints, but Calpernia tracked them down and dispatched them easily.
Siding with mages doesn't explain why we don't see Calpernia ever again. Or do we? Also, I realize we don't ever meet Calpernia if we side with mages, so it's as if she doesn't exist, but from a storyline perspective we should see her. I mean, with Samson it's easily explained. We prevented the creation of most Red Templars, which means there is no use for Samson. Plus, allowing Theirinfall to be taken by the Inquisition was technically Sanson's fault. Whereas losing the mages would be Alexius' fault rather than Calpernia's.
It's possible Alexius turned on the Venatori after losing the amulet to Felix and Dorian (in my theory). He would argue that he was at least able to deliver the mages to the Elder One. That might spare his life, but Alexius might then demand the cure for Felix, to which Corypheus would say that the cure was to be in exchange for the time magic. This might cause Alexius to lose all hope and just fire off a last ditch effort to take down Corypheus for not helping Felix even though he had the power to do so. Ooh, wouldn't that be some twisted shit if Alexius attacked Corypheus and he allowed himself to be killed by him just so Alexius could see Felix be turned into Corypheus' new host body? Ha! I think I have another fanfic to write. :)
Ah. That could be true. The one we met was the real Fiona, but after we met her Alexius went back in time to deceive the mages, thus Fiona never went to Val Royeax. It is possible that Fiona left alone. One woman would be harder to spot. So I don't take issue with that. The problem here is how we remember Fiona's offer. If Alexius changed the timeline to where we never meet her, then we should not have met her. I always thought a timeline change was more... instant, for those in that timeline. And why did Fiona say that their meeting seemed familiar even thought she didn't experience it? Also, how did the Val Royeax Fiona know to tell the Herald to meet her at the Gull and Lantern at the designated time if that doesn't happen unless Alexius already scheduled the meeting? Fiona didn't set the meeting until after going to Val Royeax to observe the Herald's actions in response to the Chantry's proclamations. So how would Alexius know to set a trap for a Herald that Fiona never invited to Redcliffe? My current theory is that the Val Royeax Fiona was the Envy Demon impersonating her, or perhaps a different envy demon. While the Lucius in Val Royeax was the real Lucius. That would make the Fiona at Haven the real one though. So maybe it's a different envy demon, or a time doppelganger.
1. I think seeing Theirinfall is more disturbing than reading about it. I haven't played DA2 yet, so I had no idea who Samson was. I figured he was some badass when Cullen said that. Doesn't matter to by canon playthrough though. To me he was just "S" on a letter in Theirinfall.
2. Hmm, maybe the bad future does have a certain terror to it, but I think people overlook the terror to be had in the concept of a demon trying to take over your psyche. If you lose to it, then it takes your being and uses it to destroy the Inquisition from the inside, ruling as a tyrant. You get a taste of what it will do when you see the companions. Any response you have to these situations only makes the demon stronger. I think that's a better terror storyline than a grim future that you plan to prevent right from the start. That future just never feels real.
I don't understand the "filler" point. I think Envy calls him that for purposes of veneration, or because he doesn't know Corypheus' real name. It makes sense for him to hide his identity until he's ready to strike. Thing is, Varric should have recognized him in the mage path. So to have him call Corypheus "The Elder One" makes no sense. Worst of all, if you don't take any companions with you to Redcliffe, Varric and Solas show up there automatically.
3. I didn't remember that, but I'll take your word for it. Well in that case, you could just dismiss Felix's claim as exaggeration.
congokong87 He didn't do it alone. He had Felix to help him, and really that's all he needed. All they had to do was get the amulet away from Alexius. But in the bad future Felix was in no condition to help out. But even then Alexius was ready to give up so long as Leliana didn't hurt Felix. I doubt Dorian would crow about it at all. He had no proof of what Alexius could do with the amulet, nor did he have proof that he stopped him. It was just another silent victory for him.
The Herald was alive on the templar path, but that's not Alexius' fault. He was never given the chance to attack the Herald in that case.
Felix becomes a husk because he is infected with... the taint? It's either the taint, or a taint related sickness. It isn't specifically explained. But I think he's killed defending his father in the templar path. Alexius loses the amulet, knows there's no hope, and so when Corypheus comes to kill him he attacks and Felix tries to defend him.
True that the Venatori would not have such large numbers in that case, but most Venatori were soldiers and assassins. There weren't that many mages in their ranks regardless. There should still be a place for her somewhere. But there isn't. That's another reason why I don't like the mage path.
Samson's rejoining the templars is like Anders' joining the Wardens. Even if you don't recruit him in Awakening he still becomes a Warden somehow. And still meets Justice somehow. I think they should have used someone else for Samson. In fact, Carroll probably would have been a better pick.
I'll check on 3. EDIT: In any case, the mission statement of In Hushed Whispers does mention the Venatori cult. Still, this is a point when there's no real reason to suspect that the cult is a powerful threat. So that's how I dismiss siding with the mages.