Hey folks, sorry for the double upload. Paramount decided to claim my video in spite of fair use practices, so I had to put a stupid watermark on the footage to maintain the integrity of my points. It sucks, the video was doing well and was going to give me a huge payout, but Paramount is just plain greedy. Which is all the more slimy when you think about people like me actually marketing the film BETTER than they did. So yeah, Paramount and RUclips can shove it.
It's alright besides the watermark text saying "Copyright vultures, go f yourselves" was something I did not expect, and found it funny and very true😅😅😅
I still think it’s because of the release date & teaser trailer reactions that caused the movie to flop… but considering the movie’s doing well on streaming, this whole marketing thing is just old news at this point.
megatron did basically nothing, because he didn't got the chance but his initial action was justified, to burn the statues that sentinel built, destroy the false slave society he built
I think Death Battle summarized Megatron's character best during his analysis. "In essence, there used to be a point to the war. Now, war *_was_* the point."
Best example would be Armada. Unicron straight up calling their BS by revealing that both Optimus and Megatron no longer care about the end goal of their wars. They both just wants to keep the fight going.
If they’re ran by Decepticons… then why they would greenlight Transformers One? Doesn’t that mean the movie was handled by the Autobots? That implies the Decepticons & the Autobots are working at Paramount). Which also implies, the Autobots also banned this average video down. Meaning, the Autobots are the bad guys in this case. Meaning your logic, is just illogical.
From what? Being a normal person with a normal reaction to someone mutilating and enslaving children? Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Bumblebee and Optimus both murdered some of Sentinal's goons who were never established to just be "mindless drones".
Also they were in all honesty defending themselves, Optimus stopped Bee from needlessly killing them though it was framed as a joke so they could focus on the important stuff.
@@lord_bobanewname4069 1) "brought to justice" didn't Optimus at some point say he wanted Sentinal not to die or something? That he wanted him imprisoned? Because that's not justice, that's a slap on the wrist. 2) Megatron was also defending himself. Sentinal was 100% going to murder him. You don't get to try to murder someone and then run away when the odds turn against you. Sentinal started a fight trying to murder someone who couldn't defend himself, it's only fair that the fight continue even when he's fleeing. Edit: who cares if D16 wanted to kill Sentinal as revenge? That's what the vast majority of normal people would want to do too. That's not a sign of turning to the dark side or whatever, it's a sign of being a normal person.
So I posted this on the original upload, so I’ll repost it here. The moment that truly cemented Megatron becoming a villain wasn’t his desire to kill sentinel. It was his desire to keep killing once sentinel was dead.
For me the desire is part of the villainy. Orion/Optimus wants to STOP Sentinel. Megaton wanted to HURT Sentinel. There is a massive difference between those 2 points.
I think it's because people REALLY wanted Sentinel dead. And to them, Orion not letting D-16 kill him is wrong, which it absolutely is not wrong to prevent murder.
@@CMan-x7k I get it. When I say some jokers deserve death, it should be a sentence the court orders. I'm not saying Batman should kill him, just try to get him to stop without causing mass damage
I know other people said this before. But I think it was a great idea that they made Orion pax and d16 both miners instead of d16 just being a miner and Orion pax be a clerk. Otherwise people would have said that Orion always had it better then D16
One of better changes for sure. It works as narrative device & to hammer home that yes, they came from same background, but choose their own path. If Hasbro ever retcon their TF lore, making Orion miner that also happen to be a bookworm, or at the very least likes to read Covenant of Primus like Primal do (to reference the clerk librarian persona), seems to be the way.
Yeah I agree, I hate how the transformers lore is structured especially Optimus himself being a librarian who could never actually understand Megatron's suffering at all. This film did Optimus correctly since he can relate with Megatron but can't stand to see his "brother" killing the innocent.
i do have to somewhat disagree here, at least partially. The original story made clear megatron was evil from the get go. The lesson Orion learned in that story was simple. The most dangerous form of evil is that which claims to be good. Megatron in that story is an opportunist, someone willing to take advantage of real problems to get ahead without any real interest in fixing them or helping others.
D-16 wasn’t wrong for being angry. D-16 was wrong for what he did with that anger. How he took away the opportunity for justice, closure, and healing from every other person Sentinel victimized. How he turned his wrath on others that Sentinel had duped. How he forgot that Sentinel wronged ALL OF THEM, not just him personally. His rage is valid. His choices are not.
Well,even optimus did not ask other cybertronian what to do with megatron, and the decision he took will led cybertron to millions of yrs war so he is no better
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 First of all, Megatron started this whole thing by letting Orion die, and Unlawfully executing Sentinel. Second of all, what's to say Megatron and the High Guard wouldn't comply, and cause more destruction? Thirdly, if Optimus was no better, he would've killed Megatron right then and there.
Megatron: "This is one bot over another... I will never trust a so-called leader." Optimus: Banishes Megatron to allow him the opportunity to live on his own terms rather than force him to live in submission Megatron: Uses his freedom to start a war lasting millenia. Yeah, I don't see the "Optimus is no better than Megatron."
@@OttoMatsonkilling or imprison megatron means that he gets punishment for unnecessary causing mass destruction of iacon.Even imprison would do but orion does not care what judiciary would do.Imprison megatron would be absolutely ok nothing wrong in that
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 One problem with that. Megatron has a massive canon of death. Imprisonment wouldn't last long. Besides, the reply before yours already proved you wrong.
Old comment: I think the reason why Megatron's violence appealed to people is that when we have to take the long way for justice, it doesn't satisfy people's emotional desires for revenge, to make the other person pay and suffer. I guess people praise Megatron for when he made Sentinel suffer because they see him as someone who did what they innerly want: to make their enemies or other jerks they see in life feel emotional horror or pain. Gotta say, great writing. But, yeah, unfortunately he came at a wrong time in media when people see bloodlust as the best way for fulfilling their emotional needs. Idk if this makes sense but that's what I say
I think you hit the nail on the head. People are angry, hell, I’m angry. The world is in a weird place and our culture is steeped in rage. But unilateral decisionmaking against someone who deserves true justice enacted upon them is a slippery slope into authoritarianism… something this film makes abundantly clear. No one person has the right to play god with the will of an entire civilization, the people of Iacon should have had a say in how Sentinel was dealt with.
@@TheSEAempire You took the words right out of my mouth. I just wish it didn't need to take this much discourse for people to get that last point. EDIT: AND lol love that shade towards Toy Story 4, though I blame the Disney producers more than Josh Cooley himself.
It's actually Hasbro btw. Hasbro just after the film released, stated they were gonna outright stop making the movies and instead just let whatever 3rd party that wants to do it, to completely bankroll it instead. Hasbro has basically given up on movies, especially the MLP sector since they cut their Generation 5 short. I just think Hasbro is childish like Square Enix, in that they need to make 1 billion or 900+ at the box office, or it's a "dud", aka "line must go up", which is exactly how you kill creativity and good movies/series. Paramount will still make movies, but Hasbro seems done with their core IP's as movies being made/bankrolled by themselves.
It's so scary that so many people didn't see the faults in D16/Megatron. Just because his anger and pain are relatable, doesn't mean he cares about the greater good. He did himself justice and he will continue to do HIMSELF justice, not for the people. And that leads to what? You guess it, replacing a dictator with another. He will tear down everything in Iacon and rebuild everything under his image. Killing everyone who doesn't agree with him and making everything his way because he cannot ever allow anyone but himself to be the leader. What do you think he meant by saying, "Burn it down, ALL of it!"
Blame the idiots who wrote this script and made the villain so that he would be worshipped. Oreo reacted to the revelation of Sentinel's betrayal as if he were a child discovering that Santa Claus doesn't exist. Sad? Yep. "Shall we open the presents now?" D-16 reacted like someone who had his arm ripped off due to the carelessness of others. With pain, sadness, frustration and hatred. So much hatred. It's something emotional and not logical. This is a controversy in the film created by the messed up narrative that wanted to target different audiences with the ridiculous *badassatron and I'm the crazy Megatron*. I almost felt satisfaction when Megs mistakenly shot Oreo "sanctimonious" Pix's. Could he have pushed Megs? Yes! Not. He jumped in front of an out of control D-16. Imbecile? He was written that way.
@@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740 i definitely see your point and it's totally valid. But since this is an emotion driven film, and many characters acted with their emotions, I can see why both D and Orion was not in the right mind when acting on some decisions, so there are some desperations on Orion's part that he wanted to get his friend back. In the film he tried multiple times to talk to D just to have him shut him down. He didn't know that D was going to shot and D didn't know Orion would stand in his way. I think this film is trying to convey the message of, "Heroes are not flawless and villains are not one-sided." No matter how well you think they handled it. Honestly, i feel like this is a reflection of the real world, no matter how good a person is, they are not flawless. And may I say Orion is quite flawed, he was reckless and inconsiderate in some instances. While D16 is relatable, if you look into the backgrounds of some of the most horrible people, they usually suffered quite a lot in their lives. But it was how they handled their anger that made their actions unjustifiable. And yes, i feel like Sentinel's death was well deserved but Sentinel's death also served as a trigger point for Megatron. That it would set him up for further destruction.
@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740 i think you have a skewed view on how people would react. Not everyone would react out of emotion or hatred. emotional Maturity has a huge role to play in emotional reactions. Megatron has a child emotional Maturity.
@@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740 Blaming the script because of how you interpreted it, when your own interpretation of any kind of medium is itself influenced by your views of the world, is not only ironic, but also just another way of saying "I don't want to take accountability for my views and will instead blame it on someone/thing else", which, funnily enough, is also Megatron's way of thinking in this movie.
Such a good movie. Orion speaking to the other miners really felt like his Optimus moment. I was never a fan of that idea of Orion Pax being a reincarnation of one of the Primes. I always liked the idea it was his own actions and feelings that led him to be worthy of the Mantle. And I think most people who try and say Optimus was the true villian are all the same people who try and say, "The Jedi were the real bad guys!" That is the exact thinking that led to "The Last Jedi."
Them both just being pure miners was great, highlighting the power of one’s choices in those moments. Both could have, theoretically, chosen other paths. And yeah, it definitely highlights for Optimus his character leading to him being a Prime, rather than possibly him already having been a Prime affecting his character. Tbf to TLJ, that’s the exact thinking it’s pushing against. The ones that make such claims in the movie are wrong in their views (one is the bad guy, one is a man with a broken view from his own decisions), and while mistakes were made, the idea of the Jedi is still good. It’s like saying the theme is “Let the past die, kill it.”
Orion want to prevented D16 to went to dark path. He got matric of leadership because not only he risk himself to saved his enemies(sentinel) but to saved his friends(D16) too.
Villains I heard as a word had originated as aristocracy claiming a villager with intent to harm the upper class as a threat and called them a villain.
The best way ive seen someone explain it is basically imagine waking up one day to learn that a garbage truck driver ripped the president in half and claim himself to be something like Rooseveltron.
@@Antasma1 can't have nuisance in this day and age on the internet! Either he's completely right or completely wrong, there's no in-between at all!! /S
@@Antasma1 You’d be surprised with the amount of people within the Star Wars fanbase attempting to say that the Jedi were the bad guys all along, that they also justified Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side.
@@agonyremnanttrap6789 I know how vengeance can turn you into something you’re not. I remember being wronged by a lot of kids back then when I was younger and I wanted vengeance. But not simple vengeance, I wanted to do very bad things to them to make them pay. Very violent and morbid thoughts. Fortunately, I stopped and realized what I was thinking and was like “This isn’t me, I don't want to hurt people. Gosh what am I doing?"
The moment he let go of Optimus' hand should've clued the viewers into the exact point the writers were making. At that point, Megatron would have sacrificed everyone and everything to get the revenge he wanted. If he was willing to kill his best friend then he'd be willing to cut down anyone necessary to eliminate everyone who wronged him (he doesn't hesitate to fight Elita and Bumblebee moments later). Its not about whether killing the people responsible for the wrongdoing is correct or not morally, its about the collateral damage that Megatron sees as necessary in order to get what he wants. And that's not even including the future desire for more power and control he gains later in other Transformers media. After the betrayal is revealed, and after Optimus undermines his murder attempt, he sees himself as the only one who is correct and that anyone who disagrees is simply an obstacle that needs to be rid of.
He goes very quickly from just Sentinel to all his followers, and who are these followers you might be asking? why they would be anyone who disagreed with Megatron of course
There's extreme irony to a Transformers story being more complicated than "One side bad guys, one side good guys, smash together" when that was 100% how this whole thing got started. Great analysis.
D-16 was able not only change his destiny but in my opinion he was always frustrated with the way things were and though he may not admit it. He wanted to take his anger our in Sentinel Prime, on the false reality he lived in. Were Orion Pax saught justice through truth. D-16 saught revenge through power.
The line between admiring the writing of a villain, believing the catalyst of their turn is relatable, realistic, and well executed, and liking them AS A VILLAIN BECAUSE THEY'RE A VILLAIN... and straight-up worshipping a monster who wanted to slaughter innocents... shouldn't be as blurry as modern fandomship makes it out it be.
We live in a world where people literally like Homelander and gush about him, and how they would behave exactly like him if they had his powers. I'm sorry but a lot of people are just straight out stupid, moronic, cruel, vindictive and evil.
Writing the comment again so people can see it. I’m glad you’re bringing this up, because SO many people (and extremely alarming number of people) have been trying to say he was justified killing Sentinel, when the entire point of the scene is that he isn’t, he’s taking it too far, and the only people who don’t realize that are himself, and his blind loyalist followers (who are also a bunch of trigger-happy psychopaths, by the way). I’ve had to explain to a rather scary number of people how “no, murder is bad, actually.”
To be fair, that was how things went down in Berlin after Hitler died as well. The violence went out of control. The Allied forces (aka “the good guys”) started burning, pillaging and raping Berlin civilians. So I kinda understand why some people will consider this as “not that wrong”.
Too many people see Starscream as their "silly cutie pookie that's abused by Megatron", and forget that he's a scheming, manipulative, violent sociopath.
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 Yep, and the Allies ended up eating each other afterwards. And it’s not that the Allied leaders are actually “good guys”. Churchill was responsible for Bengal famine. Eisenhower led a coup in Iran which destroyed a democratic government and ended up turning Iran into a rogue state. Stalin and Mao were both Allied leaders. And of course, the nukes were the creation of the Allies.
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 they weren't. Weimar Republic was either going to swing to the left or the right because the central government was so weak. And it would've well ended with communists taking over and could've quite possibly made USSR 2.0. So in the end, is it replacing bad with good or replacing bad with worse? So people didn't realize this message in the film, it's so scary because we have made so many mistakes like that before. Praising and rooting for a leader who would lead them into destruction.
The story honestly wasn't meant to justify megatron only to show what led him down the path he is on. It's no different from Eric Kilmonger. Both wanted to destroy the system that wrong them and threatened and killed anyone that tried to stop them whether they were innocent or not.
@ The video is stop worshipping villains. I’m reading the comment again and I don’t even know. Disagreeing with Megatron? They insisted over and over again it was hypocritical to kill in self defense. This ain’t a Revenge of the Sith situation where you can justifiably make the argument “He’s too dangerous to be kept alive.”
@Antasma1 Ah. So you're referring to when Optimus got in the way of Megatron killing Sentinel. I'll say that it's understandable that Megatron wanted him dead, but the fact is he was already defeated and exposed. D Wasn't sentinel's only victim, there were hundreds of miners that had a say in what should be done to him and yet he took it upon himself to be his judge, jury, and executioner, And not soon after declared himself the next leader once again robbing his fellow miners a say. Besides that, Sentinel probably knew tons of information about the quintessence. So he was worth more alive than dead.
I’ve seen in the comment section for this video people arguing that what D-16 did is what the vast majority of people would do. Well, if the vast majority of people would react like D-16 then the vast majority of people cannot handle the power that he was given. He quite clearly could not react rationally after learning the truth, beating Starscream basically put him on an ego trip and finally executing a defenseless Sentinel Prime in rage after letting his dying friend drop into a seemingly endless pit sealed the deal. He stole Megatronus’s T-Cog and name for himself. You can say he was stealing it from a thief however it is still not his cog, he is using just to gain more power. He is using the name of a prime as well, why? It seems to me because he has started to believe he is as powerful as a prime, as worthy of power as a Prime. HE should have the Matrix, HE should lead Cybertron since he won’t trust anyone else to do it now. His anger is justified and entirely valid, however the moment he tried executing a defenseless Sentinel Prime in front of Iacon was the moment he truly lost himself. As for Sentinel’s soldiers, those are armed combatants who are entirely willing to kill, if Orion, B, Elita and D didn’t retaliate they would almost certainly die. To compare armed combat to execution is incorrect in my opinion. Don’t know how to end this dumb ahhh stream of thought so imma just say Bingus.
What’s crazy is I was going to watch that video. I had it in my history and I literally just went back to find it so I can watch it and it was taken down so I’m watching this one.
This Megatron kinda helps me to finally understand how the looking into the abyss, it looks back at you thing. In the sense that you could say he blinked.
Honestly, i think whats alarming is how many people side with Megatron. And i understand why, but their rationale is misguided. Megatron has every right to be angry with sentinel, and perhaps sentinel does deserve to die. But the only reason why Megatron was able to kill Sentinel without having an angry mob on his back was because Orion Pax and Elita and Bee had revealed the secrets and showed evidence for Sentinel's betrayal of cybertron. Bare in mind, Sentinel can be considered the Mr Beast of Cybertron, all "nice guy" and generous on the public side but his dirty dealings with the quintessons are why he is as high in power as he is, selling out a false promise in a state thats rigged already. It makes sense to be angry, vut before hand, everyone liked him, even D-16. Attacking him eould be like attacking the president everyone likes, everyone will defend him. And Megatron seemed more than willing to kill anyone he considered in league with sentinel. Hes emotionally immature and lashing out at everything, had Orion not captured Arachnid and show her memories, D-16 probably would've lost against sentinel, and even if he could beat sentinel, he'd have to go through anyone who'd step in to defend the dear leader. Impulsive, irrational, power-drunk, irresponsibly lacking caution, and immature to make decisions critically. There's many people like that, which is why even if you overthrow an evil government, the idiocy of the people can undo your hard fight for freedom and a good future. Give a powerless guy a gun for the first time, combined with the insecurities of his own powerlessness and the bottled in anger of a lifetime of experienced injustice, and you have a guy who might just lash out at the bullies, bystanders, teachers, and classmates. AKA, D-"Scorched earth"-16 And because there's many people luke that, they relate to Megatron for the wrong reasons because even deeper than that is the unfortunate consequence of internet culture, which makes it easier for some people to identify with victimhood classes they neither experienced, nor represent. Victimhood is a powerful moral motivator, you see some little guy get picked on, you wanna give him all your support. If you're the "little guy", maybe you want that attention too, maybe you wanna be "the victim" because it offers you moral power over others to talk over others and go unchallenged. It's how you end up with people playing victim, or using their demographic status to assert a signal of virtue over you. Coming back to my point though, because of the ego some people have, they identify with Megatron because deep down, he's a power fantasy, and Optimus Prime, in opposite, is a fantasy of the moral good, the fair and wise responsible man. He's what we should natural strive for because he intends to be constructive with his ideals and wants a better wirld for everyone, without resorting to force or threat of violence. Optimus is in a way, the true "power" that conflicts with the power fantasy that is Megatron, because his stoicism is a testament to his effort and faith in the greater good. He doesnt need to lash out and go scorched earth because his good judgement carries him forward. Look at who's following whom. Megatron has the support of the High guard who look up to strength over another. Optimus has support from the metaphorical "working class" and "high class" bots, like the Miners he grew up with, and the transformers who maybe once looked down on his status as a miner. He has support from not a military, but a people, because hes "down to Cybertron" with them. When he speaks to the miners, he kneels down to their level. Optimus has humility, and thats a quality many people lack, which is why they identify with megatron and think Optimus is just "too idealistic" to be a real person. But real people like that have existed. It just takes great strength to be that person
Guess what D did after learning the truth about Sentinel: he blamed Pax for the protocol. And compared to Bee, the oppression he suffered was nothing. In short, he was impulsive and childish, with no sympathy whatsoever 👌
It was more personal especially when D saw Sentinel personally behead Megatronus and then proceeds to brand D with his face like a Slave Master to his slave.
A lot of people call D-16/Megatron a "fighter for the people, the little guy" and I think they couldn't be more wrong. He would turn the miners into full on slaves, if not just out right kill them all.
1:05, D-16 being portrayed initially as more of a victim of Orion's ambition and desire for recognition is part of what initially endears the audience to D-16's struggle, but the moment D-16 got a taste of power, he discarded every tie, including his friendship with Orion, he had to his prior life while high on his feeling of being wronged, paranoia over others trying to control him and desire for punishment. It's pure, unrestrained ego that drives D-16, a need to dominate others in fear of being dominated, while his followers are driven by a similar ego and feel enabled to indulge their own egos, and all with while the Quintessens still bear down on Cybertron. This complete disregard for anything beyond his own anger, pride and newly awakened greed (like with the other Decepticons) is what makes D-16 a villain, while Orion directly contrasts him in his journey to become more humble, compassionate and generous, ultimately becoming a hero and a worthy leader through his desire to help others by exposing Sentinel's crimes and rallying the people under the common cause of deposing him and fighting the Quintessens (something D-16 in his haste to indulge his rage and assert any sense of control over his life barely even tried to do, 6:51, since all he wants is to destroy, not even to rule). Arguably, the one misstep Orion had after defeating D-16 was sparing him, allowing him to reorganize the Honor Guard into the Decepticons and cause more trouble for Cybertron in the future, rather than eliminating a clear and present danger to the plant and giving the newly created Autobots more room to plan a more effective counter offensive against the Quintessens, but it's understandable with his prior relationship to D-16 and desire to be compassionate that he would spare his former friend, perhaps naively thinking banishment would be enough to quell the threat he posed.
On the original video, multiple people talked about how so many people today seem to be ruled by their emotions, which is why they think Megatron is in the right here. Megatron wasn’t wrong to feel the way he did, but it worries me the way people think acting purely on feeling is a good way to live.
Correct. It's natural to be emotional, and being emotional in itself is not a bad thing. When it does become bad is when you're so wound up, you don't think things through. Before D dropped Orion, he'd already caused collateral damage that would have gotten people hurt. But he didn't care. All he saw was Sentinel, and the only thing that mattered was killing him. The main thing people need to recognize about why Megatron isn't worthy of leadership is that it isn't a title; it's a responsibility. When you assume leadership, you're responsible for the lives of those trust you. It's not just about you anymore. Megatron's inability to recognize that is why Orion was chosen by Primus over him.
There's a quote from the 2007 TMNT movie that I think sums up Megatron's case. "Funny thing about anger: Let it consume you, and soon enough.....you lose sight of everything."
The thing about him is he was right, HANG ON LET ME FINISH, he was right, but he took it astronomically too far. Sentinel absolutely deserved to die, he killed 13 Demi gods, sold out his entire planet, and the disabled thousands of newborn babies, only to exploit them when they grew up to stay in his position of power, he is definitely pure evil. Megatron killed him, which was justified, but what wasn’t justified, was destroying the entire city of Iacon and all the innocent people who followed sentinel, does that make sense?
@@suki-artsanimations807 Eh, while it's justified, I don't see how he was too dangerous to live. He lost and was barely able to move anymore, since rather than trying to fly away he was simply crawling away from Megatron, which shows he definitely wasn't in any position to defend himself or cause harm. And most of his men were already dead, and all of Iacon knew that he was a lying dictator. He wasn't dangerous at all at that point, and they could have easily removed his T-cog, making him weak and defenseless, and capture him. Not to mention he could have had some intel on the Quintessons.
Some of this is my comment on the original upload: Thank you for making this video. I've seen way too many people claim Megatron's actions were right simply because they see him as a "symbol of the oppressed." But like everyone has said, his anger was understandable, but his actions were unjustifiable. He's a villain for a reason. He just exchanged one violent leader for another upon killing Sentinel and tried to destroy Iacon and anyone he perceived as Sentinel's followers. Megatron was wrong.
Killing Sentinel? justified. destroying stuff around you running the risk of harming civillians in the process, the same ones you claimed to "lead to the future", just because said stuff was built by Sentinel? i am not so sure. even me who feels Megatron's pain would think twice before going full on Devastator on stuff, specially after the main problem was solved.
@blackflagsnroses6013 Orion would not have it in him to Kangaroo Court Nazis like he should nor can he trump up charges to deal out justice. But D-16 can and did just that.
@blackflagsnroses6013 Is it not a moral thing to Kangaroo Court Nazis? They already violated rights of so many others and what is the difference if their rights in court gets violated in return? It is a good thing to trump up charges and even trickle down to the next person in line if they dare speak up in their defense.
I don't know where or when it started, but there seems to be a distinct trend that if the villain is able to say "le system is le bad" people will just kind of default to them being correct. I like to call it "the Armstrong Effect" after Metal Gear Rising. Even though these characters don't actually have a sensible solution or alternative to the system, parts of the audience just give them a moral carte blanche for everything they do. The irony being that these kinds of irrational actions are where abusive systems are born.
For sure, and it’s funny you bring up Senator Armstrong since he’s not even someone could make a case for a decent moral character. Unlike D-16 who started out as a weak individual who had minimal options, Armstrong was born into a successful life and advocated for social darwinism *in spite of the fact* that he would be someone who would benefit from it at the expense of others. Raiden even points out his messed up hypocracy from his own experiences as a literal child soldier. But “hur dur this person is against the system I’m also against so that means they’re justified!” It’s like I said at the end of the vid: just because one side is against another doesn’t mean one is automatically correct. Evil can take many different forms, even being conflicting with itself. So for anybody who thinks Megatron was right, I genuinely question why they think any one person should have unilateral authority to issue a public execution with their bare hands and declare themselves the leader of an entire civilization. Hell, B127 had a far worse life than D-16, and you don’t see him trying to execute someone because of personal beef. Megatron was wrong, plain and simple.
I think the line to cemented Optimus as a fascist dictator villain in these people’s eyes was the line “I’m finally working for the government” by Bumblebee By regarding to Optimus as the government, these people automatically consider Optimus as a bad guy because government = evil, despite this is a story within Transformers lore, not the actual real world allegory. There might be some message about power that can be translated to reality but it ends there, because Cybertronian government operates very differently from real world government.
@@nont18411too many people have come to think any form of authority is bad, and I don't blame them, since throughout human history, almost every government has been oppressive in some way, but that doesn't mean those people are right.
@@nont18411 I genuinely think if people see Optimus as a fascist because of that line, then they need to revaluate themselves. THE LINE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE, NOT SOMETHING OF A BIGGER MEANING. I guess that ever since people's view of the government became completely cynical, any lines like that are bad.
People unironically think that Megatron is right simply because the majority of government in the world are run by Sentinels. But because of this, I think humanity needs someone like Optimus, or should strive towards becoming Optimus more than ever.
The majority of people don't pay attention to what's going on in government, pretty sure people just think Megatron's cooler, I don't think it's that deep.
This is an extremely naive take That was the only correct answer to someone like sentinal But please explain how a person like optimus could solve the very real war in ukraine
@@kylegovender6211the only "logical" way with Sentinel was death, but that isn't up to one person to decide. Everyone who was wronged by Sentinel should get a say.
D-16 is my favorite character in this movie, do i think he is in the right? OF COURSE NO! This shows how much of a problem people have if they think otherwise, clearly josh cooley’s trying to tell that he is wrong Anyway i just found and subscribed to your channel due to transformers ONE! Keep it up and upload more transformers please❤
I believe many people (I guilty among them) say Megatron is right because he appeals to our Id. We the viewer are angry at Sentinel for what he did just as much as D-16 is. We think he should die, maybe even violently so. We are functioning on appeal to the most primal of emotions. It is intensely gratifying to see a powerful scumbag get served. But I think in the back of our mind we all are very much aware that Optimus is right. Optimus is our Superego. He is the one who, as much as we don't want to admit it, because it would spoil our personal immediate gratification, is in the right for complying with standard societal decency. You don't kill people. Not outside of self defense, not without a fair trial. As much as you want to, you can't, and we all know it.
Gotta say, this video did a great job helping give me some perspective on things. Now, I'm not one of those types who thought "Megatron did nothing wrong" because wanting to burn Iacon to the ground for the crimes of one man is going WAY too far. Plus trying to execute folks who are clearly powerless is generally a very NON-heroic thing to do. That said, I guess it's just D-16's actions made sense to me. This was somebody who had been literally born into a twisted, corrupt system, had essentially been indoctrinated to think this was just the way things were meant to be, and just as he was resigning himself to such a life...he finds out that everything he thought he knew was one gigantic lie. Basically neutered since the day he was born, his idol killed his people's protectors, and basically sold out his entire race to the enemy just so he could live as a King. EVERYTHING he's endured was all Sentinel's fault. Looked at it with all that in mind, it's kinda understandable D-16 would just...snap. Thing is, however, his actions weren't motivated by a desire for justice for all the bots who suffered under Sentinel's reign, but his own personal vengeance. His own need for catharsis. Allowing the other bots Sentinel wronged to find closure didn't matter to him. Heck, I'm pretty sure with how the people reacted to the truth, there would be no shortage of them lining up to take his head. Of course, the thing about vengeance is how hollow it ultimately is. Even after Megatron got what he wanted, he still wasn't satisfied. It didn't bring him peace, or give any sort of closure. He simply went about looking for new targets to take out his bloodlust on. It was basically the giant robot equivalent of a hyper-destructive tantrum. At that point, regardless of how much we sympathized with him...he needed to be stopped. He was both villain AND victim rolled into one. A man filled with so much rage and resentment towards a system that had taken the life he should've had...but never found healthy outlets to deal with those feelings. If he had, well...maybe history could've gone down a very different path.
The real problem is that Orion said the WORST thing you can say to a person when trying to calm them down, I genuinely think Orion is the creation of D16's downfall, directly. He never stopped to help him personally with his frustrations, only let it fester and boil in him and in the final moments of their friendship, when D16 needed him most, Orion compared him to the person who ruined D16's life, who personally tortured him just moments ago. Orion telling D16 "Don't be like Sentinel" is pretty much antagonizing, and honestly tipped him over the edge, especially when he then jumped in the way off his cannon moments after, Orion was asking for it. I think D16's anger and reasoning is entirely justified and understandable, Sentinel did ruin alot of lives and deceived people into working towards their inevitable death for his own gain. Had Orion just been less selfish and ensured that, people were okay mentally, which he hardly does in the movie, because he's not flawless. And honestly I really like the way it's handled, these characters aren't flawless, they have faults and those faults have big consequences, with Orion failing D16 and letting him go down this dark path, and his banishing of D16 was premature and really only festered the problem, I don't think he was beyond redemption at that point. I also think that Orion, had he been better, could've prevented D16 from personally killing Sentinel, although I do think Sentinel had to die regardless, seeing trial infront of law, where he could face his crimes and be interrogated for information before execution as he was straight up a liability.
For me, the alarm bells rang so loud it almost broke the immersion completely. You can see Orion struggling to challenge D-16 due to loyalty and guilt, but D-16 was just so blatantly slipping into murderous insanity that it just can't fall under any radar that I can see. There is a swing in our culture to "root for the bad guy", because life choices are hard and conflict is in many cases inevitable, and we feel the need to empathize every side for it to make sense. But following this path is leading many to justify anything, no matter how monstrous or damaging it is to ourselves and our culture. We have to pull back and see that villains are there for a reason, and so are the heroes.
I think people who side with Megatron over Optimus here aren't considering the ramifications of his actions. I mean, yeah, Orion _could've_ let D kill Sentinel out of pure vengeance instead of taking the hit for him. But ultimately, what good would that do? Not only would D still be consumed by his hatred, but Cybertron would still be without the Matrix and the Transformers would still be without Energon. The only thing that would change is trading one evil for another. Primus didn't want that. He wanted ALL of his children to be free. In his eyes, Orion embodied that desire while D did not. Hence why he chose Orion to be his champion, instead of Megatron.
And Sentinel alive what will that do?,the cybertronian don't even know he killed the primes ,if they know it,they will definitely want him death,orion is too stubborn to hear that
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 Sentinel lost his power when the truth came to light (which included the fact that he took Megatronus' cog after killing him). Killing him then would have been pointless. And even so, there's still the question of who would take his place. Megatron, a vengeful, power-hungry tyrant bent on destroying everyone that goes against his view? Or Optimus, a leader who would sacrifice himself for the greater good of his people?
@@bryanstombaugh2000well,as from real history we can say they would have found out someone Capable of great leader not only optimus or megatron had to be,Killin him will give the justice to the victims which orion is not interested to hear or atleast imprison him
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 If Orion wasn't interested in the greater good, he wouldn't have tried to expose Sentinel in the first place. And even when D knew the truth, he didn't take the greater good into account when he wanted to kill Sentinel. Moreso when he declared that he would destroy anyone who stood in his way. And as I said in my first comment, unless Primus found someone who was worthy enough to carry out his ideals, nothing would change for the better. The Matrix would still be lost, and the Cybertronians would still have to mine for Energon until they ran out.
@@bryanstombaugh2000I think u got me wrong,orion and d are both interested for greater good of cybertron but just as d did not take the opinion of other cybertronian, orion would have done the same as orion willing took a canon shot just to prove his point,he himself said rebuilding iacon cannot began with an execution
Hasbro should be renamed, Wasbro. "Wow Hasbro actually made an actually good MLP Series!" Wasbro "Wow Hasbro actually made an actual good Transformers movie!" You guessed it, Wasbro.
The main problem is that the moral conflict in the movie is a false dichotomy. There was no reason to not both reveal the truth as well as execute Sentinel. This clouds Megatron's villainous motivations. The movie would've been better if the moral debate didn't focus on killing Sentinel, but gave more focus on Megatron's lust for power. Which is a logical progression for his character.
Same. It's like trying to convince others that Luigi Mangoine is a bad person for killing a CEO who undeniably caused more harm and death than three bullets to one body could ever do. Megatron was right, Sentinel deserved to die for his crimes. Him wanting Sentinel dead makes a weak moral conflict that should get us to root for Optimus over Megatron. Ironically enough, despite Orion Pax and D16 both being miners, Transformers ONE ended up falling into the same pitfalls in regard to the very classist undertones behind the Autobot vs Decepticon conflict.
@@ToaOfFusion The only real problem imo is that vigilante justice is typically wrong even if it serves a good purpose. An exception to that would be Sentinel Prime because he IS the government. The most ideal circumstance would have him ousted from power, given a trial, and then executed when found guilty. This actually would've allowed for a more interesting conflict in the movie. As Optimus could have been in favor of creating an ordered legal system, and megatron could be in the wrong specifically because of a raw lust for violence and immediate justice.
@@koichidignitythief7429 To be sure yes, but eventually their goals pull them apart, rendering them, offensive to each other you have to pick which image to back fully otherwise you look fickle and split focused.
D/megatron deciding that Sentinel deserves death is justified because of the HORRORS he has comitted (namely subservience to the quintessons, mutilating cybertronians before their birth to justify a caste system, and doing it all for the sake of his own personnal power). The issue is both why he decided death was deserved (not because of what Sentinel did and lied about but purely because of how it affected HIM), and that he didnt stop once Sentinel was taken out, deciding that ANY authority above himself was bound to be poison and that as such he and he alone should lead, the only way he ever gained any power (with the high guard): by sheer might. His greatest failing isnt that he killed Sentinel: is that he never even for a second questioned his own actions nor blamed himself for anything, not even "killing" Orion Pax that only tried to prevent his friend from becoming just as bad as Sentinel was.
You’re telling me that Megatron is crazy for wanting to kill Sentinel for forcing him to work years in mines just to pay of his selfish debts? After all sentinel did kill the primes just so he can establish power over Cybertron! I think Megatron is right for what he wanted but I think his aggressiveness towards his friends is what leads him to be bad..And the fact that he goes mad with power after killing sentinel, but his motives for killing sentinel I still believe is correct.
D16's anger is understandable but his obsession with killing Sentinel blinded him thus he only wanted a world where he would be the leader and if you don't yield you die. Understandable anger but his actions are way too awful. Also funfact : Josh Coolay said in an interview to the french TF youtuber "Magnus" that he and the writer team actually changed a lot of things regarding D16, they wanted him to be complex and he was very complex but they saw how this can influence people by seeing Megatron as a hero so they changed him into what we got in the film
In one alternate Universe, D-16 acually listened to Orion Pax, held his hatred and trusted his friend/brother. Removed Megatronous' core from Sentinal and imprisoned him. There would have been no war, no Autobots, no Decepticons, just Cybertronians.
I genuinely believe that Orion would have been fine with Sentinel being executed, IF he'd been arrested and it was what the people of Iacon had wanted. The unfortunate truth is that D-16 didn't care that CYBERTRON was betrayed. He cared that HE was betrayed. He was angry because Sentinel's betrayal affected HIM, and MAYBE because it affected everyone else. And just like Sentinel, he robbed the people of Iacon the ability to choose.
You know something i find funny about orion and d-16? How their roles switch at the end of the movie. Orion Pax was a really egoistic being, someone who dragged his friends (and even non-friends) to his crazy plans because he wanted to be more than just a mere miner (although that could also be taken as him not wanting to leave them behind, but still). D-16 was a more humble being, he was good with being a miner and didn't want to change his life at all, thats why he always gets mad at Orion each time he ruined that life for him. But at the end, their personalities switch completely, now is optimus the humble one who wanted to bring justice for his people and acknowledged them as equals to himself. Meanwhile, Megatron was now fighting for himself, wanting to overthrow anyone in charge so he could rule Cybertron HIS way, even if that meant to burn everything down and kill everyone so he could restart it all from the ashes. Or maybe this is all something i just came along, idk, thats the way how i see things.
I commented this on another video of yours, but there’s another instance of this on Optimus’s side in the bay verse movies. At the end of Dark of the moon, Optimus had a choice between killing Sentinel or taking him prisoner. Sentinel was again, unarmed, and defeated. Optimus shot him in cold blood. I never liked that, I always thought it was very Megatron of him. Which… it being Optimus… was strange. But people defend it to this day because it’s “justified”. Or that they would do the same, cuz Sentinel deserved it. My point to this day, is as you said, it is a war crime. Optimus, would not have succumbed to that. It wasn’t right.
Honestly D-16 was justified in his anger, I’d be furious too if my entire life was a lie. Toiling away in a mine all day, treated like trash because I wasn’t “born” with something that everyone else has. Being told that I have limited options for my birth defect. Finding out my idol is the reason why my life sucks and killed my actual hero. What he isn’t justified in is going off the deep end and assuming everyone is against him. That the only thing left living for is revenge and killing the man who wronged you and lied to you. Pushing your friends away because you think they’ll get in your way and still opting to kill Sentinel when he was already beaten and at your mercy. D-16 was right with being angry, wrong in what he needed to do with that anger.
i cant believe paramount took down your video due to copyright (i bet it's run by the decepticons). anyway nice video, it would be nice if you made videos where you destroy all the apologies that are too frequently made for certain villains (like zamasu, jax, bill chiper etc.), because too many times i see videos that make those who are actually monsters look like heroes. so it would be nice to finally see a youtuber who refutes all these defenders.
Even Starscream. Because people see him as a "silly cutie pookie who is abused by Megatron", but forget the fact that he's a manipulative schemer who tries to murder Megatron on a daily basis and only retracts from it when Megatron threatens him. Not to mention all the things he did in Transformers Prime.
I could make a broader anti-villain worship video, since I’ve been seeing it for YEARS with Pirates of the Caribbean villains. Barbossa was a sexual predator in Curse of the Black Pearl, Davy Jones was an incel with the powers of a god and a thirst for mass murder, and Cutler Beckett was a literal slave trader (though thankfully most people didn’t worship him, but some do). I love villains, they’ve always been some of my favorite characters, but they’re framed in an evil light for a reason…
So does this mean if D-16 wasn't consumed by his hatred and could still think logically after executing Sentinel, because according to our laws Sentinel should be sentenced to death, he could still be a functioning member of Iacon?
I would debate at the same time the system wouldn't have changed normally if Optimus wanted to reveal Sentinel as a fraud. The population of Iacon at that point have been brainwashed by him that I think it wouldn't have mattered. Megs was unjustified for not wanting stop the suffering after his goal was complete, but that power vacuum was the only way that Optimus was able to become the new leader. Sometimes the only way to deal with a corrupt bureaucracy is to take out the figurehead.
This isn't to say that Megatron would've made for a good leader, but I think for the good of cybertronian society Sentinel *had* to die, he had painted himself as a rightous hero and as we have learned a lot recently that you'll have followers that will stay loyal if you give them a single reason to keep believing in you, no matter how much evidence is stacked against you.
@@TheSEAempire Fair point, but the miners only account for the lower class. In cultural revolution, numbers matter, and if you're having to fight the middle class on top of the ruling class, then you will be outnumbered. Megs killed the fraud figurehead of the ruling class and then became the enemy of the people, and that's how Optimus was able to unite them against Megatron and the High Guard. On a base level, Sentinel being dead and Optimus taking his place to lead a better cybertron rewards the populace without having to live with the repercussions of Sentinel being alive. Ergo, Megatron was correct in killing Sentinel.
@@Cerulean_Sunset Hey! Not sure if you noticed while watching the movie, but it actually shows a scene where Cog bots were angry at Sentinel as well. It's the scene right after the miners say "Liar, we trusted you!". You can hear them calling out "Traitor". Just thought I'd mention it 😀
I think if he just offed Sentinel and kept it at that, Optimus and the regime MIGHT have given him like, jail or something. But he didnt stop at just sentinel. Oh and like, shooting his best friend in the chest and letting him fall to his death.
I feel like D16 and Orion Pax needed to communicate with each other better. Instead of asking whats wrong and get absolutely horrified when D16 TELLS him whats wrong. "I TRUSTED SENTINEL! Ill never trust a socalled leader... ever again" Orion, instead of just staring at him in horror, in that short time left kf that scene, he shouldve done something else tk show that he still CARES about what D16 is going through. Give him a pat on the back or something. But instead, Orion Pax is desperately trying to make sure his best friend doesnt turn evil instead of trying to comfort him. "SO DO I! HE TOOK EVERYTHING FROM US! I HAVE TO DO THIS!" "No. You dont. Rebuilding Iacon cannot begin with an execution." "HE DESERVES TO DIE! CANT YOU SEE THAT?!" "Youre better than this, DONT be like SENTINEL!" In that part of the movie, you can TELL just how upset and broken down D16 is when he was saying that he needs to kill Sentinel. For Sentinel to pay for everything hes done to them. But instead of slowing down to talk to D16 about why he wants to do this and be there for him, he desperately tries to stop D16 from "being like Sentinel". At that point-- D16 would OBVIOUSLY not want to listen to Orion, since he compared him to the guy that ruined everything he knew in life. Basically, to sum this all up. Their friendship being destroyed wasnt just on D16's side of it. Yes, he was becoming more violent and it scared Orion to see his best friend changing so much. But he shouldnt have viewed his best friend as some monster like Sentinel, but to show that hes there for him, and wants to help D16 for the stuff that hes going through. Would that have changed the course kf the movie? I dont know, since D16's rage was so consuming. But Id like to think that if Orion shown that he cared about D16 and talked about what he was going through, then there couldve been a slight change to the story. But I love the idea where: You tell the truth but you still punish Sentinel. Not to the point kf death, but take out his T-cog and force him to work in the mines. The IRONY wouldve been BEAUTIFUL LOLLL
If there’s one thing I don’t agree with is that it was wrong for Megatron to kill Sentinel. Traitor to their people, slayer of their champions and architect for his and every peer Megatron had ever known’s lot in life. All of this is more than qualifying for Sentinel to executed. I’m anti-capital punishment myself but when you’re a supervillain ruining your planet for profit I can justify an exception. Megatron would not become a monster for killing Sentinel in cold blood. He becomes one once Optimus gives him nothing left to lose.
@@koichidignitythief7429 Yes however they had a trial that was decided by a jury, one person is not a jury, one person cant just decide for the death of someone
Megatron was right to feel angry, angry about being lied to and being forced to be a miner to pay off a false prime's death emphasis on *FEEL** just because we feel something doesn't mean we have a right to carry out such actions yes Sentinel deserved to be punished, even Executed, LAWFULLY as Orion said, we cannot murder someone and destroy a world to change and build a new one, and Megatron was gonna kill all "followers" of Sentinel, showing he was crazy with power and yes, Letting Megatron go like that will lead to a war, Optimus, knows that, but murdering Megatron like that would have made him no better than when Megatron let Orion die and killed Sentinal
Fans: Omg Bayverse Optimus is so brutal, he's a war criminal! Also Fans: Omg TFO Optimus is such a coward, he should've let D-16 kill Sentinel! There's no winning with people.
The complication of Orion having a part in killing Cybertronians by killing the "mindless drones" would have been sidestepped if it was written that said "drones" (vehicons) were all 'shards' of a once singular Cybertronian, split by scientists into an army of clones, meaning Orion wouldn't have killed anyone unless he destroyed every single clone.
D-16 did not start anything with StarScream. D-16 wasn't remotely trying to take over StarScream's group. D-16 was walking away, by his lonesome, to fight against all odds to fight Sentinel Prime He never asked or demanded anyone to follow him. D-16 was stopped by StarScream,and it was StarScream, alone, that started the fight against D-16. Don't try twist the fact that StarScream FAFO.
It was sad watching just how INEVITABLE D-16's descent was. There were so many points where you can tell that D-16 misses the signs that he is going off the deep end.
the amount of people who made reactions on youtube to the movie and go "megatron is right, orion is an idiot for trying to stop him" COMPLETLY glossing the fact that megatron killed his best friend with basically 0 remorse, was fully ready to murder both elita and b-127 (who were trying to stop him from destroy the city) and anybody who would oppose him from not only killing sentinel but TAKING HIS PLACE AS TYRANT is genuinely concerning
What u mean zero remorse,he showed pain for hitting orion. Orion action was absolutely reckless going in front of canon just to protect a traitor. Elita and Bee u are right,for them his action was nit justified
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 he showed pain yes.... then he say "i'm done saving you" and let him fall into the pit. furthermore when orion came back as optimus he was ready to kill him again but on purpose this time (sorry for bad english, not my first language)
That’s the part that really confuses me. Again, I can only assume people somehow think sparing sentinel is the same thing as forgiving IRL corrupt governments
@happysocialmoth1197 it's a fictional story bro, nothing in it is true. Everything is the way it is because someone wrote it to be that way. There could be a story where the sky is red and if I said "I think the reason the sky is red in this story is stupid", would you then say "but that's the actual reason it's red tho"? They could have written a story where the guy who wants to kill Hitler isn't a bad guy or where that conflic doesn't exist at all. Another example is how house elves in Harry Potter like to be slaves, in the book it is literally "true", but I still think it's wrong because JKR could have just not written that yk?
This was a really interesting video and I want to share my two cents on the topic. I think Megatron was right to execute Sentinel because say Sentinel was allowed to live and was given a trial, there is a high chance that he could use his position/power to rig the trial in his favour and get away scott-free for his crimes. That said, I do agree that Megatron went to far in continuing to destroy the city and everyone who was against him, even after killing Sentinel.
It doesn’t help Megatron’s image that a lot of the future Decepticons were already heavily militant, while most of the future Autobots were miners and civilian workers with no real combat experience. It makes the Decepticons look like a fanatical militia, especially since Optimus is now the true successor of the Primes, therefore a legitimate leader of the Cybertronians.
Hey folks, sorry for the double upload. Paramount decided to claim my video in spite of fair use practices, so I had to put a stupid watermark on the footage to maintain the integrity of my points. It sucks, the video was doing well and was going to give me a huge payout, but Paramount is just plain greedy. Which is all the more slimy when you think about people like me actually marketing the film BETTER than they did. So yeah, Paramount and RUclips can shove it.
It's alright besides the watermark text saying "Copyright vultures, go f yourselves" was something I did not expect, and found it funny and very true😅😅😅
I still think it’s because of the release date & teaser trailer reactions that caused the movie to flop… but considering the movie’s doing well on streaming, this whole marketing thing is just old news at this point.
well i ended up watching the movie cuz of u so yeah you did market he film better
I guess paramount was bleeding money hence they want your ad revenue.
(Old comment)
Megatron is the best example of "your anger is understandable, but your actions are unjustified."
Still can't believe that my comment in the previous upload got pinned, and the most likes. To those who liked it, thanks. 👍
*Facts.*
megatron did basically nothing, because he didn't got the chance
but his initial action was justified, to burn the statues that sentinel built, destroy the false slave society he built
@@The.Redman he was gonna kill millions. What do you mean he did nothing wrong??
agree but how many of us could have taken the better stance I think most of us would become just as angry and kill sentinel.
Not right but relatable
I think Death Battle summarized Megatron's character best during his analysis.
"In essence, there used to be a point to the war. Now, war *_was_* the point."
Aw yeah, Death Battle for the win!
I may not always agree with their decisions, but I do agree with this point right here.
Best example would be Armada. Unicron straight up calling their BS by revealing that both Optimus and Megatron no longer care about the end goal of their wars. They both just wants to keep the fight going.
Paramount took this banger down because they're ran by DECEPTICONS
Fr
Or Decepticon sympathizers
Paramount is run by Megatron simps
If they’re ran by Decepticons… then why they would greenlight Transformers One? Doesn’t that mean the movie was handled by the Autobots? That implies the Decepticons & the Autobots are working at Paramount). Which also implies, the Autobots also banned this average video down. Meaning, the Autobots are the bad guys in this case. Meaning your logic, is just illogical.
@@ShockwaveFPSStudios okay but what if I nerd emoji you
6:49
Megatron: "Is the future of our race not worth a single life?"
Optimus: "You'll never stop at one!"
"well watch this" *stops at two... Forever*
From the beginning, I saw Orion jumping in the way less as him trying to save Sentinel, and more trying to save D-16.
Same
From what? Being a normal person with a normal reaction to someone mutilating and enslaving children?
Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure Bumblebee and Optimus both murdered some of Sentinal's goons who were never established to just be "mindless drones".
He didn't want him to put down sentinel in revenge, but instead he wanted Sentinel brought to justice in front of the people he wronged.
Also they were in all honesty defending themselves, Optimus stopped Bee from needlessly killing them though it was framed as a joke so they could focus on the important stuff.
@@lord_bobanewname4069 1) "brought to justice" didn't Optimus at some point say he wanted Sentinal not to die or something? That he wanted him imprisoned? Because that's not justice, that's a slap on the wrist.
2) Megatron was also defending himself. Sentinal was 100% going to murder him. You don't get to try to murder someone and then run away when the odds turn against you. Sentinal started a fight trying to murder someone who couldn't defend himself, it's only fair that the fight continue even when he's fleeing.
Edit: who cares if D16 wanted to kill Sentinal as revenge? That's what the vast majority of normal people would want to do too. That's not a sign of turning to the dark side or whatever, it's a sign of being a normal person.
So I posted this on the original upload, so I’ll repost it here.
The moment that truly cemented Megatron becoming a villain wasn’t his desire to kill sentinel.
It was his desire to keep killing once sentinel was dead.
For me the desire is part of the villainy.
Orion/Optimus wants to STOP Sentinel. Megaton wanted to HURT Sentinel. There is a massive difference between those 2 points.
@neodigremo D-16 was branded as a slave with the face of the very Prime he beheaded. Are we going to do Salvery Denialism here?
Optimus said it best: "You'll never stop at one!"
D16 loves to hurt others. The bro laughed at his first kill, and not hesited to kill his own friends
@@neodigremo Which is Based
I’m kinda surprised how people are villainizing Optimus, even my first watch I was like “he wants to save his friend”
I think it's because people REALLY wanted Sentinel dead. And to them, Orion not letting D-16 kill him is wrong, which it absolutely is not wrong to prevent murder.
@@OttoMatson Same people that call Batman the problem since he doesn't kill the Joker.
@@CMan-x7k Tbh, I'd imagine there are versions of the joker that should be dead. However, not all of them.
@@OttoMatson True, but that would be for the courts to determine. Not batman.
@@CMan-x7k I get it. When I say some jokers deserve death, it should be a sentence the court orders. I'm not saying Batman should kill him, just try to get him to stop without causing mass damage
I know other people said this before. But I think it was a great idea that they made Orion pax and d16 both miners instead of d16 just being a miner and Orion pax be a clerk.
Otherwise people would have said that Orion always had it better then D16
One of better changes for sure. It works as narrative device & to hammer home that yes, they came from same background, but choose their own path.
If Hasbro ever retcon their TF lore, making Orion miner that also happen to be a bookworm, or at the very least likes to read Covenant of Primus like Primal do (to reference the clerk librarian persona), seems to be the way.
Yeah I agree, I hate how the transformers lore is structured especially Optimus himself being a librarian who could never actually understand Megatron's suffering at all. This film did Optimus correctly since he can relate with Megatron but can't stand to see his "brother" killing the innocent.
i do have to somewhat disagree here, at least partially. The original story made clear megatron was evil from the get go. The lesson Orion learned in that story was simple. The most dangerous form of evil is that which claims to be good. Megatron in that story is an opportunist, someone willing to take advantage of real problems to get ahead without any real interest in fixing them or helping others.
D-16 wasn’t wrong for being angry.
D-16 was wrong for what he did with that anger. How he took away the opportunity for justice, closure, and healing from every other person Sentinel victimized. How he turned his wrath on others that Sentinel had duped. How he forgot that Sentinel wronged ALL OF THEM, not just him personally.
His rage is valid. His choices are not.
Well,even optimus did not ask other cybertronian what to do with megatron, and the decision he took will led cybertron to millions of yrs war so he is no better
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 First of all, Megatron started this whole thing by letting Orion die, and Unlawfully executing Sentinel.
Second of all, what's to say Megatron and the High Guard wouldn't comply, and cause more destruction?
Thirdly, if Optimus was no better, he would've killed Megatron right then and there.
Megatron: "This is one bot over another... I will never trust a so-called leader."
Optimus: Banishes Megatron to allow him the opportunity to live on his own terms rather than force him to live in submission
Megatron: Uses his freedom to start a war lasting millenia.
Yeah, I don't see the "Optimus is no better than Megatron."
@@OttoMatsonkilling or imprison megatron means that he gets punishment for unnecessary causing mass destruction of iacon.Even imprison would do but orion does not care what judiciary would do.Imprison megatron would be absolutely ok nothing wrong in that
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 One problem with that. Megatron has a massive canon of death. Imprisonment wouldn't last long. Besides, the reply before yours already proved you wrong.
Old comment:
I think the reason why Megatron's violence appealed to people is that when we have to take the long way for justice, it doesn't satisfy people's emotional desires for revenge, to make the other person pay and suffer. I guess people praise Megatron for when he made Sentinel suffer because they see him as someone who did what they innerly want: to make their enemies or other jerks they see in life feel emotional horror or pain.
Gotta say, great writing. But, yeah, unfortunately he came at a wrong time in media when people see bloodlust as the best way for fulfilling their emotional needs. Idk if this makes sense but that's what I say
I think you hit the nail on the head. People are angry, hell, I’m angry. The world is in a weird place and our culture is steeped in rage. But unilateral decisionmaking against someone who deserves true justice enacted upon them is a slippery slope into authoritarianism… something this film makes abundantly clear. No one person has the right to play god with the will of an entire civilization, the people of Iacon should have had a say in how Sentinel was dealt with.
@@TheSEAempire You took the words right out of my mouth. I just wish it didn't need to take this much discourse for people to get that last point.
EDIT: AND lol love that shade towards Toy Story 4, though I blame the Disney producers more than Josh Cooley himself.
@@TheSEAempire And that’s how John Doe won in Se7en, playing with Brad Pitt’s sin, wrath.
@@seankim1592where's the shade towards Toy Story 4?
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 6:39 "yadda yadda Josh Cooley is forgiven for Toy Story 4"
Don't know about you, but that sounds like shade to me
Paramount: Won’t give us a sequel, won’t let us review the one film we do have either.
It's actually Hasbro btw.
Hasbro just after the film released, stated they were gonna outright stop making the movies and instead just let whatever 3rd party that wants to do it, to completely bankroll it instead.
Hasbro has basically given up on movies, especially the MLP sector since they cut their Generation 5 short. I just think Hasbro is childish like Square Enix, in that they need to make 1 billion or 900+ at the box office, or it's a "dud", aka "line must go up", which is exactly how you kill creativity and good movies/series.
Paramount will still make movies, but Hasbro seems done with their core IP's as movies being made/bankrolled by themselves.
D-16: He deserves to DIE!
Orion: but you don't deserve to become a killer.
It's so scary that so many people didn't see the faults in D16/Megatron. Just because his anger and pain are relatable, doesn't mean he cares about the greater good. He did himself justice and he will continue to do HIMSELF justice, not for the people. And that leads to what? You guess it, replacing a dictator with another. He will tear down everything in Iacon and rebuild everything under his image. Killing everyone who doesn't agree with him and making everything his way because he cannot ever allow anyone but himself to be the leader. What do you think he meant by saying, "Burn it down, ALL of it!"
Blame the idiots who wrote this script and made the villain so that he would be worshipped. Oreo reacted to the revelation of Sentinel's betrayal as if he were a child discovering that Santa Claus doesn't exist. Sad? Yep. "Shall we open the presents now?"
D-16 reacted like someone who had his arm ripped off due to the carelessness of others. With pain, sadness, frustration and hatred. So much hatred.
It's something emotional and not logical. This is a controversy in the film created by the messed up narrative that wanted to target different audiences with the ridiculous *badassatron and I'm the crazy Megatron*.
I almost felt satisfaction when Megs mistakenly shot Oreo "sanctimonious" Pix's. Could he have pushed Megs? Yes! Not.
He jumped in front of an out of control D-16. Imbecile? He was written that way.
@@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740 i definitely see your point and it's totally valid. But since this is an emotion driven film, and many characters acted with their emotions, I can see why both D and Orion was not in the right mind when acting on some decisions, so there are some desperations on Orion's part that he wanted to get his friend back.
In the film he tried multiple times to talk to D just to have him shut him down. He didn't know that D was going to shot and D didn't know Orion would stand in his way. I think this film is trying to convey the message of, "Heroes are not flawless and villains are not one-sided." No matter how well you think they handled it.
Honestly, i feel like this is a reflection of the real world, no matter how good a person is, they are not flawless. And may I say Orion is quite flawed, he was reckless and inconsiderate in some instances.
While D16 is relatable, if you look into the backgrounds of some of the most horrible people, they usually suffered quite a lot in their lives. But it was how they handled their anger that made their actions unjustifiable. And yes, i feel like Sentinel's death was well deserved but Sentinel's death also served as a trigger point for Megatron. That it would set him up for further destruction.
@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740 i think you have a skewed view on how people would react. Not everyone would react out of emotion or hatred. emotional Maturity has a huge role to play in emotional reactions. Megatron has a child emotional Maturity.
@@celiovicenteribeirofilho9740
Blaming the script because of how you interpreted it, when your own interpretation of any kind of medium is itself influenced by your views of the world, is not only ironic, but also just another way of saying "I don't want to take accountability for my views and will instead blame it on someone/thing else", which, funnily enough, is also Megatron's way of thinking in this movie.
Idc, Megatron is cool. So that means he's right.
Such a good movie. Orion speaking to the other miners really felt like his Optimus moment. I was never a fan of that idea of Orion Pax being a reincarnation of one of the Primes. I always liked the idea it was his own actions and feelings that led him to be worthy of the Mantle.
And I think most people who try and say Optimus was the true villian are all the same people who try and say, "The Jedi were the real bad guys!" That is the exact thinking that led to "The Last Jedi."
Them both just being pure miners was great, highlighting the power of one’s choices in those moments. Both could have, theoretically, chosen other paths. And yeah, it definitely highlights for Optimus his character leading to him being a Prime, rather than possibly him already having been a Prime affecting his character.
Tbf to TLJ, that’s the exact thinking it’s pushing against. The ones that make such claims in the movie are wrong in their views (one is the bad guy, one is a man with a broken view from his own decisions), and while mistakes were made, the idea of the Jedi is still good. It’s like saying the theme is “Let the past die, kill it.”
You know when a video calls out a company for having the original upload being taken down in the title that its a good video
Orion want to prevented D16 to went to dark path.
He got matric of leadership because not only he risk himself to saved his enemies(sentinel) but to saved his friends(D16) too.
And he lost everything with an execution worthy of a great leader.
Yeah, killing sentinel showed to d16 that he could do everything that he wanted. Thats why after that he decides to destroy everything
"nuh uh, you're just appealing to popularity"
Sometimes, an opinion is popular cause it's just the right one.
@giogio4222 noitice the quotation marks
As I said under the first upload.
It is our actions that define us. I mean, villains are called villains for a reason.
Villains I heard as a word had originated as aristocracy claiming a villager with intent to harm the upper class as a threat and called them a villain.
There's a saying, "Whomever justify a mistake with another loses reason"
And people seem to forget about it.
Great video ❤
I don't get it.
I might be in trouble😂
The best way ive seen someone explain it is basically imagine waking up one day to learn that a garbage truck driver ripped the president in half and claim himself to be something like Rooseveltron.
(Old Comment)
Oh, the main villain of the entire franchise is in the wrong? I never would have guessed!
So true!
Thanks for commenting again 🫡
We grew to grow sympathetic toward Darth Vader, but even I never once heard someone say he was right
@@Antasma1 can't have nuisance in this day and age on the internet! Either he's completely right or completely wrong, there's no in-between at all!! /S
@@slimetank394Moral relativism is foolish
@@Antasma1 You’d be surprised with the amount of people within the Star Wars fanbase attempting to say that the Jedi were the bad guys all along, that they also justified Anakin’s fall to the Dark Side.
Cool motive, still murder.
"Vengeance is like a poison, it can turn you into something you’re not… something ugly…"
-Aunt May (Spiderman 3)
@@agonyremnanttrap6789
I know how vengeance can turn you into something you’re not. I remember being wronged by a lot of kids back then when I was younger and I wanted vengeance. But not simple vengeance, I wanted to do very bad things to them to make them pay. Very violent and morbid thoughts.
Fortunately, I stopped and realized what I was thinking and was like “This isn’t me, I don't want to hurt people. Gosh what am I doing?"
If he hadn't had the intent to kill everyone else who simply disagrees with him, it could've been considered manslaughter.
Bayverse Optimus also faced similar situations as D-16, such as the events in AOE and DOTM
Killing Sentinel was as much murder as what happened to mussolini was murder. In that it isnt.
The moment he let go of Optimus' hand should've clued the viewers into the exact point the writers were making. At that point, Megatron would have sacrificed everyone and everything to get the revenge he wanted. If he was willing to kill his best friend then he'd be willing to cut down anyone necessary to eliminate everyone who wronged him (he doesn't hesitate to fight Elita and Bumblebee moments later). Its not about whether killing the people responsible for the wrongdoing is correct or not morally, its about the collateral damage that Megatron sees as necessary in order to get what he wants.
And that's not even including the future desire for more power and control he gains later in other Transformers media. After the betrayal is revealed, and after Optimus undermines his murder attempt, he sees himself as the only one who is correct and that anyone who disagrees is simply an obstacle that needs to be rid of.
He goes very quickly from just Sentinel to all his followers, and who are these followers you might be asking? why they would be anyone who disagreed with Megatron of course
There's extreme irony to a Transformers story being more complicated than "One side bad guys, one side good guys, smash together" when that was 100% how this whole thing got started. Great analysis.
D-16 was able not only change his destiny but in my opinion he was always frustrated with the way things were and though he may not admit it. He wanted to take his anger our in Sentinel Prime, on the false reality he lived in.
Were Orion Pax saught justice through truth.
D-16 saught revenge through power.
The line between admiring the writing of a villain, believing the catalyst of their turn is relatable, realistic, and well executed, and liking them AS A VILLAIN BECAUSE THEY'RE A VILLAIN... and straight-up worshipping a monster who wanted to slaughter innocents... shouldn't be as blurry as modern fandomship makes it out it be.
We live in a world where people literally like Homelander and gush about him, and how they would behave exactly like him if they had his powers.
I'm sorry but a lot of people are just straight out stupid, moronic, cruel, vindictive and evil.
Writing the comment again so people can see it.
I’m glad you’re bringing this up, because SO many people (and extremely alarming number of people) have been trying to say he was justified killing Sentinel, when the entire point of the scene is that he isn’t, he’s taking it too far, and the only people who don’t realize that are himself, and his blind loyalist followers (who are also a bunch of trigger-happy psychopaths, by the way).
I’ve had to explain to a rather scary number of people how “no, murder is bad, actually.”
To be fair, that was how things went down in Berlin after Hitler died as well. The violence went out of control. The Allied forces (aka “the good guys”) started burning, pillaging and raping Berlin civilians. So I kinda understand why some people will consider this as “not that wrong”.
@@nont18411society has focused so much on how evil Hitler was that no one considers whether all of those who opposed him were truly good.
Too many people see Starscream as their "silly cutie pookie that's abused by Megatron", and forget that he's a scheming, manipulative, violent sociopath.
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 Yep, and the Allies ended up eating each other afterwards. And it’s not that the Allied leaders are actually “good guys”. Churchill was responsible for Bengal famine. Eisenhower led a coup in Iran which destroyed a democratic government and ended up turning Iran into a rogue state. Stalin and Mao were both Allied leaders. And of course, the nukes were the creation of the Allies.
@@eeveeofalltrades4780 they weren't. Weimar Republic was either going to swing to the left or the right because the central government was so weak. And it would've well ended with communists taking over and could've quite possibly made USSR 2.0. So in the end, is it replacing bad with good or replacing bad with worse? So people didn't realize this message in the film, it's so scary because we have made so many mistakes like that before. Praising and rooting for a leader who would lead them into destruction.
This is what happened to magneto all over again
The story honestly wasn't meant to justify megatron only to show what led him down the path he is on. It's no different from Eric Kilmonger. Both wanted to destroy the system that wrong them and threatened and killed anyone that tried to stop them whether they were innocent or not.
Exactly. It explained Megatron magnificently, but justified him not at all.
A commenter once tried to argue that the movie was trying to say Optimus was in the wrong
@@Antasma1 What did they say Optimus was in the wrong for?
@ The video is stop worshipping villains. I’m reading the comment again and I don’t even know. Disagreeing with Megatron? They insisted over and over again it was hypocritical to kill in self defense. This ain’t a Revenge of the Sith situation where you can justifiably make the argument “He’s too dangerous to be kept alive.”
@Antasma1 Ah. So you're referring to when Optimus got in the way of Megatron killing Sentinel. I'll say that it's understandable that Megatron wanted him dead, but the fact is he was already defeated and exposed. D Wasn't sentinel's only victim, there were hundreds of miners that had a say in what should be done to him and yet he took it upon himself to be his judge, jury, and executioner, And not soon after declared himself the next leader once again robbing his fellow miners a say. Besides that, Sentinel probably knew tons of information about the quintessence. So he was worth more alive than dead.
Watching this after spending a day digging through “Megatron was right” comments is insanely refreshing
It's good, because I feel like those types of people need that reality wake up-call.
I’ve seen in the comment section for this video people arguing that what D-16 did is what the vast majority of people would do. Well, if the vast majority of people would react like D-16 then the vast majority of people cannot handle the power that he was given. He quite clearly could not react rationally after learning the truth, beating Starscream basically put him on an ego trip and finally executing a defenseless Sentinel Prime in rage after letting his dying friend drop into a seemingly endless pit sealed the deal. He stole Megatronus’s T-Cog and name for himself. You can say he was stealing it from a thief however it is still not his cog, he is using just to gain more power. He is using the name of a prime as well, why? It seems to me because he has started to believe he is as powerful as a prime, as worthy of power as a Prime. HE should have the Matrix, HE should lead Cybertron since he won’t trust anyone else to do it now. His anger is justified and entirely valid, however the moment he tried executing a defenseless Sentinel Prime in front of Iacon was the moment he truly lost himself. As for Sentinel’s soldiers, those are armed combatants who are entirely willing to kill, if Orion, B, Elita and D didn’t retaliate they would almost certainly die. To compare armed combat to execution is incorrect in my opinion. Don’t know how to end this dumb ahhh stream of thought so imma just say Bingus.
11/10 we love Bingus
dang I was not expecting a reply from the RUclipsr himself! Nice to meet another Bingus enjoyer
🫡
“Clearly everyone would do this which means im normal for thinking it.”
@@eracer166 LITERALLY
What’s crazy is I was going to watch that video. I had it in my history and I literally just went back to find it so I can watch it and it was taken down so I’m watching this one.
Me aswell lol
This Megatron kinda helps me to finally understand how the looking into the abyss, it looks back at you thing. In the sense that you could say he blinked.
Honestly, i think whats alarming is how many people side with Megatron.
And i understand why, but their rationale is misguided.
Megatron has every right to be angry with sentinel, and perhaps sentinel does deserve to die.
But the only reason why Megatron was able to kill Sentinel without having an angry mob on his back was because Orion Pax and Elita and Bee had revealed the secrets and showed evidence for Sentinel's betrayal of cybertron.
Bare in mind, Sentinel can be considered the Mr Beast of Cybertron, all "nice guy" and generous on the public side but his dirty dealings with the quintessons are why he is as high in power as he is, selling out a false promise in a state thats rigged already.
It makes sense to be angry, vut before hand, everyone liked him, even D-16. Attacking him eould be like attacking the president everyone likes, everyone will defend him. And Megatron seemed more than willing to kill anyone he considered in league with sentinel.
Hes emotionally immature and lashing out at everything, had Orion not captured Arachnid and show her memories, D-16 probably would've lost against sentinel, and even if he could beat sentinel, he'd have to go through anyone who'd step in to defend the dear leader.
Impulsive, irrational, power-drunk, irresponsibly lacking caution, and immature to make decisions critically.
There's many people like that, which is why even if you overthrow an evil government, the idiocy of the people can undo your hard fight for freedom and a good future.
Give a powerless guy a gun for the first time, combined with the insecurities of his own powerlessness and the bottled in anger of a lifetime of experienced injustice, and you have a guy who might just lash out at the bullies, bystanders, teachers, and classmates. AKA, D-"Scorched earth"-16
And because there's many people luke that, they relate to Megatron for the wrong reasons because even deeper than that is the unfortunate consequence of internet culture, which makes it easier for some people to identify with victimhood classes they neither experienced, nor represent. Victimhood is a powerful moral motivator, you see some little guy get picked on, you wanna give him all your support.
If you're the "little guy", maybe you want that attention too, maybe you wanna be "the victim" because it offers you moral power over others to talk over others and go unchallenged. It's how you end up with people playing victim, or using their demographic status to assert a signal of virtue over you.
Coming back to my point though, because of the ego some people have, they identify with Megatron because deep down, he's a power fantasy, and Optimus Prime, in opposite, is a fantasy of the moral good, the fair and wise responsible man. He's what we should natural strive for because he intends to be constructive with his ideals and wants a better wirld for everyone, without resorting to force or threat of violence. Optimus is in a way, the true "power" that conflicts with the power fantasy that is Megatron, because his stoicism is a testament to his effort and faith in the greater good. He doesnt need to lash out and go scorched earth because his good judgement carries him forward.
Look at who's following whom.
Megatron has the support of the High guard who look up to strength over another.
Optimus has support from the metaphorical "working class" and "high class" bots, like the Miners he grew up with, and the transformers who maybe once looked down on his status as a miner.
He has support from not a military, but a people, because hes "down to Cybertron" with them. When he speaks to the miners, he kneels down to their level. Optimus has humility, and thats a quality many people lack, which is why they identify with megatron and think Optimus is just "too idealistic" to be a real person. But real people like that have existed. It just takes great strength to be that person
Guess what D did after learning the truth about Sentinel: he blamed Pax for the protocol.
And compared to Bee, the oppression he suffered was nothing.
In short, he was impulsive and childish, with no sympathy whatsoever 👌
It was more personal especially when D saw Sentinel personally behead Megatronus and then proceeds to brand D with his face like a Slave Master to his slave.
As much as I like Megatron just remember what happened anytime Megatron actually came in power folks
A lot of people call D-16/Megatron a "fighter for the people, the little guy" and I think they couldn't be more wrong.
He would turn the miners into full on slaves, if not just out right kill them all.
1:05, D-16 being portrayed initially as more of a victim of Orion's ambition and desire for recognition is part of what initially endears the audience to D-16's struggle, but the moment D-16 got a taste of power, he discarded every tie, including his friendship with Orion, he had to his prior life while high on his feeling of being wronged, paranoia over others trying to control him and desire for punishment.
It's pure, unrestrained ego that drives D-16, a need to dominate others in fear of being dominated, while his followers are driven by a similar ego and feel enabled to indulge their own egos, and all with while the Quintessens still bear down on Cybertron.
This complete disregard for anything beyond his own anger, pride and newly awakened greed (like with the other Decepticons) is what makes D-16 a villain, while Orion directly contrasts him in his journey to become more humble, compassionate and generous, ultimately becoming a hero and a worthy leader through his desire to help others by exposing Sentinel's crimes and rallying the people under the common cause of deposing him and fighting the Quintessens (something D-16 in his haste to indulge his rage and assert any sense of control over his life barely even tried to do, 6:51, since all he wants is to destroy, not even to rule).
Arguably, the one misstep Orion had after defeating D-16 was sparing him, allowing him to reorganize the Honor Guard into the Decepticons and cause more trouble for Cybertron in the future, rather than eliminating a clear and present danger to the plant and giving the newly created Autobots more room to plan a more effective counter offensive against the Quintessens, but it's understandable with his prior relationship to D-16 and desire to be compassionate that he would spare his former friend, perhaps naively thinking banishment would be enough to quell the threat he posed.
On the original video, multiple people talked about how so many people today seem to be ruled by their emotions, which is why they think Megatron is in the right here. Megatron wasn’t wrong to feel the way he did, but it worries me the way people think acting purely on feeling is a good way to live.
Correct. It's natural to be emotional, and being emotional in itself is not a bad thing. When it does become bad is when you're so wound up, you don't think things through. Before D dropped Orion, he'd already caused collateral damage that would have gotten people hurt. But he didn't care. All he saw was Sentinel, and the only thing that mattered was killing him.
The main thing people need to recognize about why Megatron isn't worthy of leadership is that it isn't a title; it's a responsibility. When you assume leadership, you're responsible for the lives of those trust you. It's not just about you anymore. Megatron's inability to recognize that is why Orion was chosen by Primus over him.
I'm emotional myself, but I know that Megatron was wrong. I think when I saw Sentinel die, I was like "Jesus Christ D-16, that's a bit much".
There's a quote from the 2007 TMNT movie that I think sums up Megatron's case.
"Funny thing about anger: Let it consume you, and soon enough.....you lose sight of everything."
Nothing will ever convince me of the "belief" that Megatron is right.
The thing about him is he was right, HANG ON LET ME FINISH, he was right, but he took it astronomically too far.
Sentinel absolutely deserved to die, he killed 13 Demi gods, sold out his entire planet, and the disabled thousands of newborn babies, only to exploit them when they grew up to stay in his position of power, he is definitely pure evil.
Megatron killed him, which was justified, but what wasn’t justified, was destroying the entire city of Iacon and all the innocent people who followed sentinel, does that make sense?
Yeah destroying iacon is definitely unjustified, but killing sentinel was absolutely justified. Sentinel is too dangerous to live.
@@suki-artsanimations807
Eh, while it's justified, I don't see how he was too dangerous to live. He lost and was barely able to move anymore, since rather than trying to fly away he was simply crawling away from Megatron, which shows he definitely wasn't in any position to defend himself or cause harm. And most of his men were already dead, and all of Iacon knew that he was a lying dictator. He wasn't dangerous at all at that point, and they could have easily removed his T-cog, making him weak and defenseless, and capture him. Not to mention he could have had some intel on the Quintessons.
Orion didn’t take the bullet to save Sentinel. He took it to save D.
Some of this is my comment on the original upload: Thank you for making this video. I've seen way too many people claim Megatron's actions were right simply because they see him as a "symbol of the oppressed." But like everyone has said, his anger was understandable, but his actions were unjustifiable. He's a villain for a reason.
He just exchanged one violent leader for another upon killing Sentinel and tried to destroy Iacon and anyone he perceived as Sentinel's followers. Megatron was wrong.
Hell yeah. Also sick profile picture, I was a huge BLOSC fan as a kid.
@@TheSEAempire Thanks, man. It's one of my favorite shows
Third upload, which is a fact that only the OGs know
@@LastGoatKnight no audio 💀
That one was on me, I rendered the nested sequence instead of the full video itself.
More people need to watch this video in light of recent similar events.
What events
Luigi
@@Belangerz oh yeah
Killing Sentinel? justified. destroying stuff around you running the risk of harming civillians in the process, the same ones you claimed to "lead to the future", just because said stuff was built by Sentinel? i am not so sure. even me who feels Megatron's pain would think twice before going full on Devastator on stuff, specially after the main problem was solved.
“The rebuilding of Iacon cannot begin with an execution”
The Nuremburg Trials would disagree.
@@ZX-Gear I don't think you understand the word "trails".
@@ZX-Gearthose were trials not outright murderous execution. Megatron was arguing for the massacre of every German and anyone who disagreed
@blackflagsnroses6013 Orion would not have it in him to Kangaroo Court Nazis like he should nor can he trump up charges to deal out justice. But D-16 can and did just that.
@blackflagsnroses6013 Is it not a moral thing to Kangaroo Court Nazis? They already violated rights of so many others and what is the difference if their rights in court gets violated in return? It is a good thing to trump up charges and even trickle down to the next person in line if they dare speak up in their defense.
Transformers fans when Optimus executes Sentinel: 😡
Transformers fans when Megatron executes Sentinel: 😊
Geewunners be like:
this the one right here
@@NSMexicano2008 I'm a G1 guy, and still thought Megs was wrong
Both were in the right
I don't know where or when it started, but there seems to be a distinct trend that if the villain is able to say "le system is le bad" people will just kind of default to them being correct. I like to call it "the Armstrong Effect" after Metal Gear Rising. Even though these characters don't actually have a sensible solution or alternative to the system, parts of the audience just give them a moral carte blanche for everything they do. The irony being that these kinds of irrational actions are where abusive systems are born.
For sure, and it’s funny you bring up Senator Armstrong since he’s not even someone could make a case for a decent moral character. Unlike D-16 who started out as a weak individual who had minimal options, Armstrong was born into a successful life and advocated for social darwinism *in spite of the fact* that he would be someone who would benefit from it at the expense of others. Raiden even points out his messed up hypocracy from his own experiences as a literal child soldier. But “hur dur this person is against the system I’m also against so that means they’re justified!”
It’s like I said at the end of the vid: just because one side is against another doesn’t mean one is automatically correct. Evil can take many different forms, even being conflicting with itself. So for anybody who thinks Megatron was right, I genuinely question why they think any one person should have unilateral authority to issue a public execution with their bare hands and declare themselves the leader of an entire civilization. Hell, B127 had a far worse life than D-16, and you don’t see him trying to execute someone because of personal beef. Megatron was wrong, plain and simple.
I think the line to cemented Optimus as a fascist dictator villain in these people’s eyes was the line
“I’m finally working for the government” by Bumblebee
By regarding to Optimus as the government, these people automatically consider Optimus as a bad guy because government = evil, despite this is a story within Transformers lore, not the actual real world allegory. There might be some message about power that can be translated to reality but it ends there, because Cybertronian government operates very differently from real world government.
@@nont18411too many people have come to think any form of authority is bad, and I don't blame them, since throughout human history, almost every government has been oppressive in some way, but that doesn't mean those people are right.
@@nont18411 I genuinely think if people see Optimus as a fascist because of that line, then they need to revaluate themselves. THE LINE IS SUPPOSED TO BE A JOKE, NOT SOMETHING OF A BIGGER MEANING. I guess that ever since people's view of the government became completely cynical, any lines like that are bad.
@@eeveeofalltrades4780"Le "oppression" bad"
People unironically think that Megatron is right simply because the majority of government in the world are run by Sentinels. But because of this, I think humanity needs someone like Optimus, or should strive towards becoming Optimus more than ever.
The majority of people don't pay attention to what's going on in government, pretty sure people just think Megatron's cooler, I don't think it's that deep.
@@eagle162 That makes it even worse
This is an extremely naive take
That was the only correct answer to someone like sentinal
But please explain how a person like optimus could solve the very real war in ukraine
@@eagle162so the same thing that happens with people who like the Dark Side of the Force?
@@kylegovender6211the only "logical" way with Sentinel was death, but that isn't up to one person to decide. Everyone who was wronged by Sentinel should get a say.
The fact this has to be explained is enough to let you know where common knowledge and common sense is heading😂
I fear for kids these days.
Yeah, this planet is fucked
@@BryanBradley-q9u
“Go to hell!”
“This planet *is* hell”
@@TheSEAempire Seeing in my local UK newspaper that more kids are being lulled into Marxism was more than alarming enough for me this yr 😱
D-16 is my favorite character in this movie, do i think he is in the right? OF COURSE NO! This shows how much of a problem people have if they think otherwise, clearly josh cooley’s trying to tell that he is wrong
Anyway i just found and subscribed to your channel due to transformers ONE! Keep it up and upload more transformers please❤
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Sorry about the copyright Vultures, I hate that you had to repost this.
It’s a pain, the video was doing really well and was about to hit 70k views after two days, but now I’m back to only 2k views. Fml
I believe many people (I guilty among them) say Megatron is right because he appeals to our Id. We the viewer are angry at Sentinel for what he did just as much as D-16 is. We think he should die, maybe even violently so. We are functioning on appeal to the most primal of emotions. It is intensely gratifying to see a powerful scumbag get served.
But I think in the back of our mind we all are very much aware that Optimus is right. Optimus is our Superego. He is the one who, as much as we don't want to admit it, because it would spoil our personal immediate gratification, is in the right for complying with standard societal decency. You don't kill people. Not outside of self defense, not without a fair trial. As much as you want to, you can't, and we all know it.
Gotta say, this video did a great job helping give me some perspective on things. Now, I'm not one of those types who thought "Megatron did nothing wrong" because wanting to burn Iacon to the ground for the crimes of one man is going WAY too far. Plus trying to execute folks who are clearly powerless is generally a very NON-heroic thing to do.
That said, I guess it's just D-16's actions made sense to me. This was somebody who had been literally born into a twisted, corrupt system, had essentially been indoctrinated to think this was just the way things were meant to be, and just as he was resigning himself to such a life...he finds out that everything he thought he knew was one gigantic lie. Basically neutered since the day he was born, his idol killed his people's protectors, and basically sold out his entire race to the enemy just so he could live as a King. EVERYTHING he's endured was all Sentinel's fault.
Looked at it with all that in mind, it's kinda understandable D-16 would just...snap.
Thing is, however, his actions weren't motivated by a desire for justice for all the bots who suffered under Sentinel's reign, but his own personal vengeance. His own need for catharsis. Allowing the other bots Sentinel wronged to find closure didn't matter to him. Heck, I'm pretty sure with how the people reacted to the truth, there would be no shortage of them lining up to take his head.
Of course, the thing about vengeance is how hollow it ultimately is. Even after Megatron got what he wanted, he still wasn't satisfied. It didn't bring him peace, or give any sort of closure. He simply went about looking for new targets to take out his bloodlust on. It was basically the giant robot equivalent of a hyper-destructive tantrum. At that point, regardless of how much we sympathized with him...he needed to be stopped.
He was both villain AND victim rolled into one. A man filled with so much rage and resentment towards a system that had taken the life he should've had...but never found healthy outlets to deal with those feelings. If he had, well...maybe history could've gone down a very different path.
The real problem is that Orion said the WORST thing you can say to a person when trying to calm them down, I genuinely think Orion is the creation of D16's downfall, directly. He never stopped to help him personally with his frustrations, only let it fester and boil in him and in the final moments of their friendship, when D16 needed him most, Orion compared him to the person who ruined D16's life, who personally tortured him just moments ago. Orion telling D16 "Don't be like Sentinel" is pretty much antagonizing, and honestly tipped him over the edge, especially when he then jumped in the way off his cannon moments after, Orion was asking for it.
I think D16's anger and reasoning is entirely justified and understandable, Sentinel did ruin alot of lives and deceived people into working towards their inevitable death for his own gain. Had Orion just been less selfish and ensured that, people were okay mentally, which he hardly does in the movie, because he's not flawless.
And honestly I really like the way it's handled, these characters aren't flawless, they have faults and those faults have big consequences, with Orion failing D16 and letting him go down this dark path, and his banishing of D16 was premature and really only festered the problem, I don't think he was beyond redemption at that point. I also think that Orion, had he been better, could've prevented D16 from personally killing Sentinel, although I do think Sentinel had to die regardless, seeing trial infront of law, where he could face his crimes and be interrogated for information before execution as he was straight up a liability.
For me, the alarm bells rang so loud it almost broke the immersion completely. You can see Orion struggling to challenge D-16 due to loyalty and guilt, but D-16 was just so blatantly slipping into murderous insanity that it just can't fall under any radar that I can see. There is a swing in our culture to "root for the bad guy", because life choices are hard and conflict is in many cases inevitable, and we feel the need to empathize every side for it to make sense. But following this path is leading many to justify anything, no matter how monstrous or damaging it is to ourselves and our culture. We have to pull back and see that villains are there for a reason, and so are the heroes.
I think people who side with Megatron over Optimus here aren't considering the ramifications of his actions. I mean, yeah, Orion _could've_ let D kill Sentinel out of pure vengeance instead of taking the hit for him.
But ultimately, what good would that do?
Not only would D still be consumed by his hatred, but Cybertron would still be without the Matrix and the Transformers would still be without Energon.
The only thing that would change is trading one evil for another.
Primus didn't want that. He wanted ALL of his children to be free. In his eyes, Orion embodied that desire while D did not. Hence why he chose Orion to be his champion, instead of Megatron.
And Sentinel alive what will that do?,the cybertronian don't even know he killed the primes ,if they know it,they will definitely want him death,orion is too stubborn to hear that
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 Sentinel lost his power when the truth came to light (which included the fact that he took Megatronus' cog after killing him). Killing him then would have been pointless. And even so, there's still the question of who would take his place. Megatron, a vengeful, power-hungry tyrant bent on destroying everyone that goes against his view? Or Optimus, a leader who would sacrifice himself for the greater good of his people?
@@bryanstombaugh2000well,as from real history we can say they would have found out someone Capable of great leader not only optimus or megatron had to be,Killin him will give the justice to the victims which orion is not interested to hear or atleast imprison him
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 If Orion wasn't interested in the greater good, he wouldn't have tried to expose Sentinel in the first place. And even when D knew the truth, he didn't take the greater good into account when he wanted to kill Sentinel. Moreso when he declared that he would destroy anyone who stood in his way.
And as I said in my first comment, unless Primus found someone who was worthy enough to carry out his ideals, nothing would change for the better. The Matrix would still be lost, and the Cybertronians would still have to mine for Energon until they ran out.
@@bryanstombaugh2000I think u got me wrong,orion and d are both interested for greater good of cybertron but just as d did not take the opinion of other cybertronian, orion would have done the same as orion willing took a canon shot just to prove his point,he himself said rebuilding iacon cannot began with an execution
Also 6:43 DAMMIT HASBRO YOU GOT YOUR GOLDEN EGG HERE
Hasbro should be renamed, Wasbro.
"Wow Hasbro actually made an actually good MLP Series!"
Wasbro
"Wow Hasbro actually made an actual good Transformers movie!"
You guessed it, Wasbro.
The main problem is that the moral conflict in the movie is a false dichotomy. There was no reason to not both reveal the truth as well as execute Sentinel. This clouds Megatron's villainous motivations. The movie would've been better if the moral debate didn't focus on killing Sentinel, but gave more focus on Megatron's lust for power. Which is a logical progression for his character.
Same. It's like trying to convince others that Luigi Mangoine is a bad person for killing a CEO who undeniably caused more harm and death than three bullets to one body could ever do.
Megatron was right, Sentinel deserved to die for his crimes. Him wanting Sentinel dead makes a weak moral conflict that should get us to root for Optimus over Megatron. Ironically enough, despite Orion Pax and D16 both being miners, Transformers ONE ended up falling into the same pitfalls in regard to the very classist undertones behind the Autobot vs Decepticon conflict.
@@ToaOfFusion The only real problem imo is that vigilante justice is typically wrong even if it serves a good purpose. An exception to that would be Sentinel Prime because he IS the government. The most ideal circumstance would have him ousted from power, given a trial, and then executed when found guilty. This actually would've allowed for a more interesting conflict in the movie. As Optimus could have been in favor of creating an ordered legal system, and megatron could be in the wrong specifically because of a raw lust for violence and immediate justice.
Saying Megatron is wrong is like saying Fascism is bad. Common sense.
One is a hero of the people
The Other, the enemy of the state
These are not the same
@@koichidignitythief7429 To be sure yes, but eventually their goals pull them apart, rendering them, offensive to each other
you have to pick which image to back fully otherwise you look fickle and split focused.
D/megatron deciding that Sentinel deserves death is justified because of the HORRORS he has comitted (namely subservience to the quintessons, mutilating cybertronians before their birth to justify a caste system, and doing it all for the sake of his own personnal power).
The issue is both why he decided death was deserved (not because of what Sentinel did and lied about but purely because of how it affected HIM), and that he didnt stop once Sentinel was taken out, deciding that ANY authority above himself was bound to be poison and that as such he and he alone should lead, the only way he ever gained any power (with the high guard): by sheer might. His greatest failing isnt that he killed Sentinel: is that he never even for a second questioned his own actions nor blamed himself for anything, not even "killing" Orion Pax that only tried to prevent his friend from becoming just as bad as Sentinel was.
You’re telling me that Megatron is crazy for wanting to kill Sentinel for forcing him to work years in mines just to pay of his selfish debts? After all sentinel did kill the primes just so he can establish power over Cybertron! I think Megatron is right for what he wanted but I think his aggressiveness towards his friends is what leads him to be bad..And the fact that he goes mad with power after killing sentinel, but his motives for killing sentinel I still believe is correct.
D16's anger is understandable but his obsession with killing Sentinel blinded him thus he only wanted a world where he would be the leader and if you don't yield you die. Understandable anger but his actions are way too awful.
Also funfact : Josh Coolay said in an interview to the french TF youtuber "Magnus" that he and the writer team actually changed a lot of things regarding D16, they wanted him to be complex and he was very complex but they saw how this can influence people by seeing Megatron as a hero so they changed him into what we got in the film
@ ye so we have the same thoughts, you just rewrote what I said
Good analysis on megatron
He may evil but i love him
Thanks man!
Seeing the correlation between D16 (Megatron) and Orion Pax (Optimus Prime) is like an allegory of historical leaders irl in some degree
You actually had the balls of steel to slander copyrights, i salute you.🫡
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In one alternate Universe, D-16 acually listened to Orion Pax, held his hatred and trusted his friend/brother. Removed Megatronous' core from Sentinal and imprisoned him. There would have been no war, no Autobots, no Decepticons, just Cybertronians.
I genuinely believe that Orion would have been fine with Sentinel being executed, IF he'd been arrested and it was what the people of Iacon had wanted. The unfortunate truth is that D-16 didn't care that CYBERTRON was betrayed. He cared that HE was betrayed. He was angry because Sentinel's betrayal affected HIM, and MAYBE because it affected everyone else. And just like Sentinel, he robbed the people of Iacon the ability to choose.
Well at least you know it was a good episode also looking forward to seeing your versions of dead men tell no tales have a wonderful day 👍😄
"We were given the power to change our world and you chose to destroy it. Just like Sentinel."
- Optimus Prime (2024)
Also F**k you Paramount.
TRUTH
You know something i find funny about orion and d-16? How their roles switch at the end of the movie.
Orion Pax was a really egoistic being, someone who dragged his friends (and even non-friends) to his crazy plans because he wanted to be more than just a mere miner (although that could also be taken as him not wanting to leave them behind, but still).
D-16 was a more humble being, he was good with being a miner and didn't want to change his life at all, thats why he always gets mad at Orion each time he ruined that life for him.
But at the end, their personalities switch completely, now is optimus the humble one who wanted to bring justice for his people and acknowledged them as equals to himself. Meanwhile, Megatron was now fighting for himself, wanting to overthrow anyone in charge so he could rule Cybertron HIS way, even if that meant to burn everything down and kill everyone so he could restart it all from the ashes.
Or maybe this is all something i just came along, idk, thats the way how i see things.
“They were both miners, but then diddy came back”
Lame
"They're literally called, 'decepticons'! That doesn't raise any red flags?"
I commented this on another video of yours, but there’s another instance of this on Optimus’s side in the bay verse movies. At the end of Dark of the moon, Optimus had a choice between killing Sentinel or taking him prisoner. Sentinel was again, unarmed, and defeated. Optimus shot him in cold blood. I never liked that, I always thought it was very Megatron of him. Which… it being Optimus… was strange. But people defend it to this day because it’s “justified”. Or that they would do the same, cuz Sentinel deserved it. My point to this day, is as you said, it is a war crime. Optimus, would not have succumbed to that. It wasn’t right.
Watching this it's interesting to see some parallels to current events. (In specific the actions of a certain Luigi) And people's reactions to both.
Honestly D-16 was justified in his anger, I’d be furious too if my entire life was a lie. Toiling away in a mine all day, treated like trash because I wasn’t “born” with something that everyone else has. Being told that I have limited options for my birth defect. Finding out my idol is the reason why my life sucks and killed my actual hero.
What he isn’t justified in is going off the deep end and assuming everyone is against him. That the only thing left living for is revenge and killing the man who wronged you and lied to you. Pushing your friends away because you think they’ll get in your way and still opting to kill Sentinel when he was already beaten and at your mercy. D-16 was right with being angry, wrong in what he needed to do with that anger.
Sucks for the reupload but dont give up! Loved the video 🫶
i cant believe paramount took down your video due to copyright (i bet it's run by the decepticons).
anyway nice video, it would be nice if you made videos where you destroy all the apologies that are too frequently made for certain villains (like zamasu, jax, bill chiper etc.), because too many times i see videos that make those who are actually monsters look like heroes. so it would be nice to finally see a youtuber who refutes all these defenders.
Even Starscream. Because people see him as a "silly cutie pookie who is abused by Megatron", but forget the fact that he's a manipulative schemer who tries to murder Megatron on a daily basis and only retracts from it when Megatron threatens him. Not to mention all the things he did in Transformers Prime.
I could make a broader anti-villain worship video, since I’ve been seeing it for YEARS with Pirates of the Caribbean villains. Barbossa was a sexual predator in Curse of the Black Pearl, Davy Jones was an incel with the powers of a god and a thirst for mass murder, and Cutler Beckett was a literal slave trader (though thankfully most people didn’t worship him, but some do). I love villains, they’ve always been some of my favorite characters, but they’re framed in an evil light for a reason…
So does this mean if D-16 wasn't consumed by his hatred and could still think logically after executing Sentinel, because according to our laws Sentinel should be sentenced to death, he could still be a functioning member of Iacon?
I would debate at the same time the system wouldn't have changed normally if Optimus wanted to reveal Sentinel as a fraud. The population of Iacon at that point have been brainwashed by him that I think it wouldn't have mattered. Megs was unjustified for not wanting stop the suffering after his goal was complete, but that power vacuum was the only way that Optimus was able to become the new leader. Sometimes the only way to deal with a corrupt bureaucracy is to take out the figurehead.
This isn't to say that Megatron would've made for a good leader, but I think for the good of cybertronian society Sentinel *had* to die, he had painted himself as a rightous hero and as we have learned a lot recently that you'll have followers that will stay loyal if you give them a single reason to keep believing in you, no matter how much evidence is stacked against you.
They show the miners revolting in the film.
@@TheSEAempire Fair point, but the miners only account for the lower class. In cultural revolution, numbers matter, and if you're having to fight the middle class on top of the ruling class, then you will be outnumbered. Megs killed the fraud figurehead of the ruling class and then became the enemy of the people, and that's how Optimus was able to unite them against Megatron and the High Guard. On a base level, Sentinel being dead and Optimus taking his place to lead a better cybertron rewards the populace without having to live with the repercussions of Sentinel being alive. Ergo, Megatron was correct in killing Sentinel.
@@Cerulean_Sunset Hey! Not sure if you noticed while watching the movie, but it actually shows a scene where Cog bots were angry at Sentinel as well. It's the scene right after the miners say "Liar, we trusted you!". You can hear them calling out "Traitor". Just thought I'd mention it 😀
Didn't seem to notice that. good ear. but chill with the passive aggressive tone, dawg.
I think if he just offed Sentinel and kept it at that, Optimus and the regime MIGHT have given him like, jail or something. But he didnt stop at just sentinel. Oh and like, shooting his best friend in the chest and letting him fall to his death.
If only TikTok commenters had any amount of media literacy…
(Commented on the original video, rip the original)
That's the point of Megatron. He WAS right. He WAS the good guy. Megatron is a warning, Optimus a message, their attitudes necessary evils.
Both were right in the moment but only one was sustainable for a long running future.
@kwayneboy1524 English is either your second language or you are american.
I feel like D16 and Orion Pax needed to communicate with each other better. Instead of asking whats wrong and get absolutely horrified when D16 TELLS him whats wrong.
"I TRUSTED SENTINEL! Ill never trust a socalled leader... ever again"
Orion, instead of just staring at him in horror, in that short time left kf that scene, he shouldve done something else tk show that he still CARES about what D16 is going through. Give him a pat on the back or something. But instead, Orion Pax is desperately trying to make sure his best friend doesnt turn evil instead of trying to comfort him.
"SO DO I! HE TOOK EVERYTHING FROM US! I HAVE TO DO THIS!"
"No. You dont. Rebuilding Iacon cannot begin with an execution."
"HE DESERVES TO DIE! CANT YOU SEE THAT?!"
"Youre better than this, DONT be like SENTINEL!"
In that part of the movie, you can TELL just how upset and broken down D16 is when he was saying that he needs to kill Sentinel. For Sentinel to pay for everything hes done to them. But instead of slowing down to talk to D16 about why he wants to do this and be there for him, he desperately tries to stop D16 from "being like Sentinel". At that point-- D16 would OBVIOUSLY not want to listen to Orion, since he compared him to the guy that ruined everything he knew in life.
Basically, to sum this all up. Their friendship being destroyed wasnt just on D16's side of it. Yes, he was becoming more violent and it scared Orion to see his best friend changing so much. But he shouldnt have viewed his best friend as some monster like Sentinel, but to show that hes there for him, and wants to help D16 for the stuff that hes going through.
Would that have changed the course kf the movie? I dont know, since D16's rage was so consuming. But Id like to think that if Orion shown that he cared about D16 and talked about what he was going through, then there couldve been a slight change to the story.
But I love the idea where: You tell the truth but you still punish Sentinel. Not to the point kf death, but take out his T-cog and force him to work in the mines. The IRONY wouldve been BEAUTIFUL LOLLL
I think people are confusing a SYMPATHETIC villain with a JUSTIFIED villain.
I spent a good chunk of this video not even reading the BIG ASS TEXT IN MY FACE COVERING THE MAJORITY OF THE SCREEN
Alright, guess I will watch the entire video again :}
If there’s one thing I don’t agree with is that it was wrong for Megatron to kill Sentinel. Traitor to their people, slayer of their champions and architect for his and every peer Megatron had ever known’s lot in life. All of this is more than qualifying for Sentinel to executed. I’m anti-capital punishment myself but when you’re a supervillain ruining your planet for profit I can justify an exception. Megatron would not become a monster for killing Sentinel in cold blood. He becomes one once Optimus gives him nothing left to lose.
He killed out of anger, that wasn't even an execution that was cold blooded murder, even if the victim deserves to die murde shouldn't be justified
@@koichidignitythief7429 Yes however they had a trial that was decided by a jury, one person is not a jury, one person cant just decide for the death of someone
Megatron was right to feel angry, angry about being lied to and being forced to be a miner to pay off a false prime's death
emphasis on *FEEL**
just because we feel something doesn't mean we have a right to carry out such actions
yes Sentinel deserved to be punished, even Executed, LAWFULLY
as Orion said, we cannot murder someone and destroy a world to change and build a new one, and Megatron was gonna kill all "followers" of Sentinel, showing he was crazy with power
and yes, Letting Megatron go like that will lead to a war, Optimus, knows that, but murdering Megatron like that would have made him no better than when Megatron let Orion die and killed Sentinal
Fans: Omg Bayverse Optimus is so brutal, he's a war criminal!
Also Fans: Omg TFO Optimus is such a coward, he should've let D-16 kill Sentinel!
There's no winning with people.
The complication of Orion having a part in killing Cybertronians by killing the "mindless drones" would have been sidestepped if it was written that said "drones" (vehicons) were all 'shards' of a once singular Cybertronian, split by scientists into an army of clones, meaning Orion wouldn't have killed anyone unless he destroyed every single clone.
D-16 did not start anything with StarScream. D-16 wasn't remotely trying to take over StarScream's group. D-16 was walking away, by his lonesome, to fight against all odds to fight Sentinel Prime He never asked or demanded anyone to follow him. D-16 was stopped by StarScream,and it was StarScream, alone, that started the fight against D-16. Don't try twist the fact that StarScream FAFO.
It was sad watching just how INEVITABLE D-16's descent was.
There were so many points where you can tell that D-16 misses the signs that he is going off the deep end.
the amount of people who made reactions on youtube to the movie and go "megatron is right, orion is an idiot for trying to stop him" COMPLETLY glossing the fact that megatron killed his best friend with basically 0 remorse, was fully ready to murder both elita and b-127 (who were trying to stop him from destroy the city) and anybody who would oppose him from not only killing sentinel but TAKING HIS PLACE AS TYRANT is genuinely concerning
What u mean zero remorse,he showed pain for hitting orion. Orion action was absolutely reckless going in front of canon just to protect a traitor. Elita and Bee u are right,for them his action was nit justified
@@baisakhimukherjee7524 he showed pain yes.... then he say "i'm done saving you" and let him fall into the pit. furthermore when orion came back as optimus he was ready to kill him again but on purpose this time (sorry for bad english, not my first language)
@@ironpredator6662yeah,but he did felt pain,how he changed in one second was confusing.Yes after Killing Sentinel whatever he did is not justified
That’s the part that really confuses me. Again, I can only assume people somehow think sparing sentinel is the same thing as forgiving IRL corrupt governments
Edgy 14 year olds internally
I think people are just tired of the "we can't kill Hitler because then we'll be just as bad as Hitler" trope.
But this trope came out true tho- unironically 😭
@happysocialmoth1197 it's a fictional story bro, nothing in it is true. Everything is the way it is because someone wrote it to be that way. There could be a story where the sky is red and if I said "I think the reason the sky is red in this story is stupid", would you then say "but that's the actual reason it's red tho"? They could have written a story where the guy who wants to kill Hitler isn't a bad guy or where that conflic doesn't exist at all. Another example is how house elves in Harry Potter like to be slaves, in the book it is literally "true", but I still think it's wrong because JKR could have just not written that yk?
This was a really interesting video and I want to share my two cents on the topic. I think Megatron was right to execute Sentinel because say Sentinel was allowed to live and was given a trial, there is a high chance that he could use his position/power to rig the trial in his favour and get away scott-free for his crimes. That said, I do agree that Megatron went to far in continuing to destroy the city and everyone who was against him, even after killing Sentinel.
It doesn’t help Megatron’s image that a lot of the future Decepticons were already heavily militant, while most of the future Autobots were miners and civilian workers with no real combat experience. It makes the Decepticons look like a fanatical militia, especially since Optimus is now the true successor of the Primes, therefore a legitimate leader of the Cybertronians.
Huh, you're right.