I LOVE my M8. Would gladly spend every penny again. I always have it with me and have created so many tracks since I got it. The developer deserves my hard earned dollars 100%!
And if you like trackers, try Renoise which is a full featured tracker for today's musician. It really puts some of the more popular DAWs to shame by having immense control over samples and automation. Advance users can write scripts/plugins for it as well. Best of all, it will not break the bank at USD 75. Great for beginners and advance tracker-heads.
@@FlawdaJitttFL is not a tracker and do not use any of the sample command effects that even standard trackers do not to speak of the more advanced features in renoise. You can basically do anything in any daw, but not with the ease of workflow that renoise offers. Fl too is not for everyone, I hated the workflow.
I have the Polyend tracker and it was a major throwback to when I used trackers on my AtariST. I wanted a polyend tracker to get as far away from my computer as possible when writing but I agree. It’s not for everyone!
This is why i bought the polyend tracker and jumped into eurorack. 30+ years of computer use going back as far as the Atari 800XL and C-64. I am over it. Most of my work and business is automated and i have started to retire into an offgrid mobile lifestyle. Computers waste resources as far as i am concerned. When running off solar power and a limited battery bank this starts to add up. I can get days out of the polyend where a laptop would chew though that power within 6 hours. Good Health is also priceless and worth spending extra for. 30+ years at a keyboard in front of a screen is a great way to trash my body before i am 50. cheers!
In Milkytracker one instrument can have 16 samples associated to it. You can't layer the samples but if you open the instrument editor and then click the "edit" button next to the piano keyboard you can associate different samples to different keys/notes by selecting the sample and dragging mouse over the piano keyboard.
a trip down memory lane ,I began composing with fast tracker 2 back in 2000, my most complex arrangements are from that early period, then I turned to a Vangelis/Schulze style of layered keyboard playing over programmed beats and sequences. but I've been feeling the pull of the tracker again. digitakt is my tool for now but no chaining, no song mode, is very annoying, I'm stuck in loop mode with it. I don't like using the computer to compose but the hardware solutions are too expensive. maybe what I need is a nice ergonomic setup to go back to using the computer for new projects.
I think the point of hardware trackers is the fact that it gets you away from the laptop and helps you focus on quick ideas without distraction. They can also be possibly more reliable because they aren't affected by viruses. Plus they spark inspiration when using them because they are very attractive looking. Like a flying v guitar, or orange amps, it makes you want to make music. It's art and artists love art. It's like brushing your teeth without a good toothpaste. If the toothpaste tastes bad, you wont want to brush your teeth as much. As a matter of fact, one of the biggest reasons tooth paste was invented was to get people to keep brushing their teeth. That's why hand soap that has a scent or foams up makes people wash their hands more. Do you need to buy a hardware tracker? Nah. This channel is a perfect guide to save you money when you cant afford to. But if you have more than enough money, sure. I own an SP404mk2, and I love it to death. It is a sound palette and a playground for my ideas. I feel like I am playing a guitar or drums, but with bleeps and bloops. That's my opinion anyways.
Hey, love your content! I just want to mention something - there is a thing called Headless M8. It's a free software version of the M8 but you have to put it on a PCB (Teeensy 4.1). So it's a afortable DIY M8 that you can use on a computer (both MAC and Windows). It's something like 30-40$.
@@playpm No noise, I've used it for years now. It just adds ASIO support and wave export in the paid version. Everything else is the same as in the "full" version and they actively develop it, to me the 65€ they charge for it is more about supporting the devs to keep the project going because you really don't have to pay for it to use it :)
add my vote to the bag of “SunVox” videos too please! also i just checked out the podcast you were on with simon the magpie and analog and i just wanted to say that i definitely think you should try out your take on “bad gear” where you talk about the flaws of certain gear! hearing your take on the workflow and performance issues of hardware would be a great watch, especially for someone who does that for a living! keep up the good work. I’ve really have been enjoying all that you do!
Bless you. Back in 1995 we used a souped up Amiga 2000 to produce Drumfunk in our Studio. Octamed efficiency sending midi data to a series of Akai samplers and synths running through a Mackie desk. Beautiful work flow for our particular genre. Drum chopping is in my opinion is rather stimulating using Trackers.
Ok, I have G.A.S. I admit it. I have a Dirtywave M8 on pre-order but in the meantime I'm messing around with Sunvox on a Palm Tungsten TX. Yep, and it works very well. The TX has a tiny screen, but it is pretty amazing that it runs well on an old Palm PDA. You can get a Palm TX off eBay for $50.00 and the Sunvox version is free.
Before I say anything I want to say these videos are great, some of them are better than others and they are always entertaining and kudos to michael for making the effort and continuing to make them. I simultaneously love these videos and cringe at them violently. I've never watched any of these and thought so myself that the suggested alternatives were actually ALTERNATIVES rofl. You want this sleek neat inspiring machine? How about something not sleek, not inspiring in the slightest? HAVE FUN! Why even buy an instrument at all? I mean all you need is a computer from 20 years ago from a daw from that era and you can probably still crank out a hit IF you can get yourself to want to do that. Want a guitar? How about instead you get a $100 keyboard with a guitar/chord synth, same thing! Want to play the drums? Don't bother even thinking about getting a drum kit, just play samples with a touch screen on your phone, same thing! These videos aren't "wrong", they're kind of just a huge wet blanket; and I'm sure it helps folks save money and maybe inspire them in different way but let's not pretend anything put forth here is even kind of reasonable as an actual alternative.
Milky tracker is great, you probably should mention it supports Linux as well. Also if you already own a bunch of Linux based handheld consoles why not try LGPT which is really a more powerful LSDJ which supports samples and is much closer to a M8 than LSDJ. Finally obviously one of the main attractions of M8 is the protability, it's pretty hard to put your MacBook in your pocket...
@@reidfamilydroid Yep I have LGPT running very well on a Anbernic rg280v too. Theres a great tutorial on how to set it up on it here: ruclips.net/video/cTixrLxR7fs/видео.html
this kinda sums up what i thought about polyend tracker when i first saw it. i mean it is very cool and being a standalone box has it's advantages but literally even a shittiest smallest laptop with any freeware tracker (or renoise) installed gives you exact same capabilities if not more xD plus an inbuilt battery which polyend traker doesn't have :P
Even though Renoise and Sunvox do look better and seemingly more powerful, special gratitude for showing the MilkyTracker (made in 🇺🇦) I cannot imagine what a pain In the neck to use dirtywave m8 without a proper keyboard.
Actually because it's UI is optimised for just using a small number of buttons, as LSDJ pioneered using MI is exceptionally fast without a full qwerty keyboard
Seems like most people won't have the patients to do any of this. Its already daunting enough to learn and know enough to get to the point of being able to use this, that by the time you do, you know there are better easier ways for a reason.
Tough to replace the M8 since it's so fast and powerful in a package that honestly kind of makes it super fast with the button combos. I am sure the headless option was mentioned so you can just install it on your laptop and have a M8 for like $30. I went from that to the real thing and for $550, it's worth it, imo. I agree with most of your videos though, especially the MPC one. I just think there is nothing like carrying the M8 around and mastering the button combos. It's a special experience, and not crazy expensive for what it can do. Also you didn't really show how you sequence hardware with MIDI out, which is a big feature of this thing.
my 300 dollar laptop runs renoise and has a full sized keyboard - way more convenient imo. The M8 is cool but it is kind of expensive for what it is...
@@trevor_mounts_music disagree, the m8 is faster than using a keyboard. i have renoise on my laptop too. its also awesome but the m8 is a different experience.
Sorry to necro this, but as far as free alternatives go, littlegpt on a handheld gets pretty close to the M8. They're both based on lsdj so they have basically the same control scheme. The M8 is obviously way more powerful feature wise but the general workflow is nearly identical. Totally worth it if you happen to have a psp or ps vita laying around to install it on.
@@playpm No problem! Like I said the M8 is definitely more powerful, littlegpt doesn't have any synth engines and only very rudimentary ability to manipulate samples (plus probably the worst sounding filter I've ever heard). But as far workflow they're almost identical, they have basically the same button combos so you can get really fast with both of them.
Protracker for Amiga has been free forever. Has no one considered that all "trackers" come from The Ultimate Soundtracker and it's variant evolution Protracker? Milkytracker is also just a Win XP variant of FastTracker2, which creates .xm files. The better choice for creating strictly audio-driven music with a tracker interface should be with Renoise, not Milky. Protracker creates .mod files, FastTracker2 = .xm files, Scream Tracker = .s3m files, and Impulse Tracker = .it files. Still, there is this blind spot and ignorance that tracker music has a significant assocation with Amiga and DOS music. Otherwise, use Renoise for whatever experimenting in interface only. Polyend Tracker continues to fumble with .mod importing.
I was shocked when Polyend Tracker came out. I mean, I remembered my teenage years when my friend had shown me a DAW (it was FL Studio 4, I think) and I was surprised how better and more intuitive it was after trackers which I had been using back then. I have moved to DAWs and never got back. And now, in 2021 (?) Polyend Tracker came out, and I was like, why do I actually need a separate box for that kind of workflow?
Because variety is the mother of creativity. Limitations forces you to try new ways to achieve what you want, which often leads to unexpected and unique exeriences.
I'd say Renoise for the win for tracker based workflow and as others have said here, it's free and only paid if you want vst support or wave /aiff export. Whichever, at the price it is it's totally worth it. I think you could have made your point better with a Polyend tracker and possible M8 in front of you, to really get annoyed with the gear 😅 but anyway thanks for gas therapy 👍🏻
@@playpm yea can understand that, but actually the tracker workflow is only half the argument. Polyend sell a black box limited to 8 audio tracks, limited fx per channel and hardware with documented issues, then ships the same product months after release with a plastic casing instead of metal, and at a higher price. Dirtywave M8 is a lot more value for money and transparent in it's build and development process. However, it is handheld with limited input buttons and a small screen. Just think given the gas therapy there's a lot more for you to argue against than the tracker workflow.
1:45 - this is not true, you dont have to pair m8 with anything and it’s more powerful than polyend tracker. The only thing in which PT excels is having more ticks per steps for shuffling. Source: i have both and recently PT is collecting dust while I use m8 most of the time
@@jefftheworld 100 as I remember correctly. M8 has 6 in straight pattern. Does not really bother me too much since you can offset that time in drum samples
@@LostStylus That's just the default. M8 can be configured with up to 254 step ticks. For a shuffle/swing you can set up to 16 different step tick values in a groove table and each step will use the next number of ticks in the list.
A recommendation for something closer to the Polyend Tracker for free is OpenMPT. The Tracker can export IT files, but OpenMPT's own MPTM format extends it with support for VSTs, as well as native effect. It can also emulate the OPL soundchip native to the S3M tracker format, which does not allow the use of effects, but gives limited synthesis. It's Windows-native, but they also support running it in Wine on Linux and MacOS.
i never like doing anything on a tracker type of sequencer or work flow because its workflow is very time consuming, but anyways there is also tracker call sunvox which is a tracker that is not free on some platforms but it’s closed to free because the app is only $5.99 and is on almost every platform, window, android and ios for example and its always getting updates and im sure that it can do much more then any tracker hardware…
That's exactly that. The tracker workflow is way faster then any other music workflow because it was created by computer minded individuals and not musicians. The learning curve for musicians is steep. Before getting to that that fast workflow, musicians have alot to learn and to unlearn. During this time, it is way slower then making music in another way. And I understand clearly how one won't put the time on it as it seems way less productive and fun to use tracker this time.
Workflow is the best part about the trackers, nothing is faster than a tracker. Here's 5 minutes of my and maybe your time, too: ruclips.net/video/xstPA-MDe6w/видео.html
@D34DB34T To each his own. I didn’t say you were faster with it… seeing some people using it, the screens look like tetris tournaments; we can barely know what is going on. So no doubt it could be the fastest way. Since this comment some months ago, it’s not the fastest workflow for me anymore since I use Koala Sampler now. For my way of working it’s the fastest to resample. And the “limited” possibilities compare to the near limitless possibilities of trackers helps for me. Sometimes it’s good to be focus! 😂
Hey, I'd love to buy a triangle but obviously, considering the cost of such a great instrument, I was wondering if maybe you had a free triangle alternative?
This is off topic, but I just have one (probably dumb) question- Which piece of music gear/groove box do you think, would best fit in the “beginner-friendly” category..? (Beginner, also as in- they’ve never had or bought a groovebox before and they wanna see what’s it’s like to go dawless, but don’t know where to start) And I’m so Sorry to bother you, I know this question is dumb- but I still would really love to know what you think..
By beginner if you mean not too much menu diving then it would be korg volcas, but they're way too limited on each own. More function means more controls, means probably more menu diving therefore steeper learning curve, I got no perfect answer, you will always feel like a beginner on every groovebox. If you mean mean beginner on music making/music theory, then I suggest start from piano or guitar, solid music theory supports you to go further.
honestly i still might look at getting a polyend just for the sample editing because milkytracker is fairly basic in that respect (or maybe im just mad that theres no timestretch) but its good to get my hands on a tracker before looking at paying for something
I definitly got the urge to order the m8, but it isnt available rn, and the price is a bit steep. Ended up getting a used lenovo laptop running a i5 processir and install linux and renoise ... Paid about 15% of the m8 price and honestly got a lot more features. .
Because you have to buy some Teensy usb chip and an extra monitor and hdmi cable and an SD card for the free software, which not many people have, not like a cheap well-assembled computer.
if you want a tracker that is a DAW, it is probably the best choice. hardly an objective "best tracker" though. some just do different things than others. openMPT is "best" for back compatibility and file format options, renoise is best for more DAW-adjacent production, etc.
@@DoctorSoctopus “best” is really subjective. I used Renoise a lot. To make it simple in my view, Renoise is easier to use but Sunvox can make more complex things. Renoise is in no way light and Sunvox is not incomprehensible but which is “best” really depends on the person using it.
thanks for sharing that cool option. still not sure, why the tracker thing seems to be more appealing to some than using a proper DAW. But for those who love it, its a great option to those expensive hardware toys :)
Great stuff! Is there an equivalent to the Polyend Tracker's Fill function? I've been thinking about writing my own tracker just to look at that kind of generative function 😅
Renoise and Sunvox do this. It may be named differently but it's there. The one in Sunvox is pretty extensive. It can generate stuff quite more complex but the way PT implements it is way faster.
Renoise's is not quite the same as the Polyend feature, though we are discussing on the forums how to add similar functionality. That's one thing I love about Renoise is that the community often builds extensions and plugins to add features.
milkytracker and lsdj/m8c/ntrq have completely different workflows. people gravitate to the plane-view ui of LSDJ/m8c/ntrq due to the efficiency with switching menus and fleshing out tracks. once you have these menus memorized it is a completely different experience. another point would be to have a portable device that is smol for travel which is not what a laptop is. for instance i used to write a lot of music on the dingoo with ntrq which would fit into my pocket and i would just have headphones with. ultimately i will be purchasing a uconsole to install renoise on as my travel DAW because it hits a lot of reqs im looking for.
I mean yeah that's cool and all but some people would like to get OFF the computer. Some get easily distracted. Also, you can't take your MacBook with you in your pocket. What's easier to flip out when you're waiting on the bus or on the bus. A MacBook or a smartphone sized Tracker?
If you're broke, just say so 😂 Everyone who actually owns an m8 loves it. Its also open source, so you can make your own with a teensy microcontroller. Its also just lsdj but with more features 😂 People who buy it 100% already know what they're getting. It really feels like you're just mad that you dont have one. As many others have said, you dont seem to mention Sunvox at all in this video? Im not going to finish it to bother finding out. If not, then this is obviously just hate-trash; not a genuine means of helping artists find better tools.
I like your videos, pretty funny, but hardware is totally different than using a computer, especially windows which is a PITA to use for music due to the constant need to update the OS.
@playpm you should check out SunVox its a small, fast and powerful modular synthesizer with pattern-based sequencer (tracker). It is a tool for those people who like to compose music wherever they are, whenever they wish. On any device. On any system.
![KSI - Dirty [Official Visualiser]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/VoDh1h1dPUE/mqdefault.jpg)
Definitely SunVox. Not only tracker but also excelent synth.
❤️👍 Old user here. Forums are fantastic. Shot out to Nightradio!
Seriously one of the most underrated channels on YT right now. Thank you for your advice!
Perfect timing, my dude. I've been trying to convince myself that buying one of those was a bad idea....
I LOVE my M8. Would gladly spend every penny again. I always have it with me and have created so many tracks since I got it. The developer deserves my hard earned dollars 100%!
And if you like trackers, try Renoise which is a full featured tracker for today's musician. It really puts some of the more popular DAWs to shame by having immense control over samples and automation. Advance users can write scripts/plugins for it as well. Best of all, it will not break the bank at USD 75. Great for beginners and advance tracker-heads.
There Is nothing renoise can do that FL Studio can't do
@@FlawdaJittt 1. Be a tracker
@@FlawdaJitttFL is not a tracker and do not use any of the sample command effects that even standard trackers do not to speak of the more advanced features in renoise. You can basically do anything in any daw, but not with the ease of workflow that renoise offers. Fl too is not for everyone, I hated the workflow.
Renoise is fucking amazing
@@sweatycrabthailand4262 Renoise Redux. Done! 😂
you can also run the M8 headless version for free!
I don't think you can run it for free, it takes some hardware too, and you got to know how to set that up.
Great video! Love your approach to teachin people!
Great job you guys have done 🙌 Only wishing the tracker could have a better screen 🤣
@@playpm Our next Tracker will have the best screen possible ;D Meanwhile, nobodys' perfect! :D
Thank you again for great options! What about covering the excellent and free SunVox?
Sunvox is free for Mac and PCs, for IPads it will cost you $8, which is still reasonable.
Alex Zolotov is a genius!
Best tracker, I used it extensively in high school and it is supremely powerful and easy to use
The best eye opener reviews on youtube.. in my opinion.
Thanks! Impulse Tracker and Fast Tracker were my first music production software in early 90x.
I have the Polyend tracker and it was a major throwback to when I used trackers on my AtariST. I wanted a polyend tracker to get as far away from my computer as possible when writing but I agree. It’s not for everyone!
This is why i bought the polyend tracker and jumped into eurorack. 30+ years of computer use going back as far as the Atari 800XL and C-64. I am over it. Most of my work and business is automated and i have started to retire into an offgrid mobile lifestyle. Computers waste resources as far as i am concerned. When running off solar power and a limited battery bank this starts to add up. I can get days out of the polyend where a laptop would chew though that power within 6 hours. Good Health is also priceless and worth spending extra for. 30+ years at a keyboard in front of a screen is a great way to trash my body before i am 50. cheers!
In Milkytracker one instrument can have 16 samples associated to it. You can't layer the samples but if you open the instrument editor and then click the "edit" button next to the piano keyboard you can associate different samples to different keys/notes by selecting the sample and dragging mouse over the piano keyboard.
a trip down memory lane ,I began composing with fast tracker 2 back in 2000, my most complex arrangements are from that early period, then I turned to a Vangelis/Schulze style of layered keyboard playing over programmed beats and sequences. but I've been feeling the pull of the tracker again. digitakt is my tool for now but no chaining, no song mode, is very annoying, I'm stuck in loop mode with it. I don't like using the computer to compose but the hardware solutions are too expensive. maybe what I need is a nice ergonomic setup to go back to using the computer for new projects.
I think the point of hardware trackers is the fact that it gets you away from the laptop and helps you focus on quick ideas without distraction. They can also be possibly more reliable because they aren't affected by viruses. Plus they spark inspiration when using them because they are very attractive looking. Like a flying v guitar, or orange amps, it makes you want to make music. It's art and artists love art. It's like brushing your teeth without a good toothpaste. If the toothpaste tastes bad, you wont want to brush your teeth as much. As a matter of fact, one of the biggest reasons tooth paste was invented was to get people to keep brushing their teeth. That's why hand soap that has a scent or foams up makes people wash their hands more. Do you need to buy a hardware tracker? Nah. This channel is a perfect guide to save you money when you cant afford to. But if you have more than enough money, sure. I own an SP404mk2, and I love it to death. It is a sound palette and a playground for my ideas. I feel like I am playing a guitar or drums, but with bleeps and bloops. That's my opinion anyways.
Hey, love your content! I just want to mention something - there is a thing called Headless M8. It's a free software version of the M8 but you have to put it on a PCB (Teeensy 4.1). So it's a afortable DIY M8 that you can use on a computer (both MAC and Windows). It's something like 30-40$.
I am obsessed with the headless M8! Perfect DAW workflow. My favorite cheap gizmo.
I really enjoy your videos thank you and your sense of humour is great. I hope you're well. Hello from New Zealand
Appreciated. Greetings from China 🙌
Renoise is great even as a freeware. Paid version adds ASIO support and wave export, you can save and load projects even on the free version.
Thanks for reminding, I read about it, says it will insert noise/silent if you don't pay.
@@playpm No noise, I've used it for years now. It just adds ASIO support and wave export in the paid version. Everything else is the same as in the "full" version and they actively develop it, to me the 65€ they charge for it is more about supporting the devs to keep the project going because you really don't have to pay for it to use it :)
Now I wanna redo this episode 🙂
@@playpm I'm sure it's fine as I'm sure the fans of the other trackers will also tell you their favourite in the comments 🙃😁
Definitely recommend Renoise, it's a huge upgrade from Milky, as powerful as Polyend and M8 and much cheaper.
Milky tracker runs on ARM boards like the raspberry pi. It can be used to create a device like the polyend if one is inclined to DIY.
I totally disagree with your opinion but I love your ideas and your video was very constructive and informative. Big up.
add my vote to the bag of “SunVox” videos too please! also i just checked out the podcast you were on with simon the magpie and analog and i just wanted to say that i definitely think you should try out your take on “bad gear” where you talk about the flaws of certain gear! hearing your take on the workflow and performance issues of hardware would be a great watch, especially for someone who does that for a living! keep up the good work. I’ve really have been enjoying all that you do!
That song in the beginning you made is 🔥
Oh, actually it's a demo song from MilkyTracker official, I don't have that much pacience for a tracker 😅
Bless you.
Back in 1995 we used a souped up Amiga 2000 to produce Drumfunk in our Studio. Octamed efficiency sending midi data to a series of Akai samplers and synths running through a Mackie desk. Beautiful work flow for our particular genre. Drum chopping is in my opinion is rather stimulating using Trackers.
Nice stuff. I made the linked Aalto course material for MilkyTracker. It's great that you found it useful.
Ok, I have G.A.S. I admit it. I have a Dirtywave M8 on pre-order but in the meantime I'm messing around with Sunvox on a Palm Tungsten TX. Yep, and it works very well. The TX has a tiny screen, but it is pretty amazing that it runs well on an old Palm PDA. You can get a Palm TX off eBay for $50.00 and the Sunvox version is free.
Try Renoise
Your videos are very entertaining and useful!
Before I say anything I want to say these videos are great, some of them are better than others and they are always entertaining and kudos to michael for making the effort and continuing to make them.
I simultaneously love these videos and cringe at them violently. I've never watched any of these and thought so myself that the suggested alternatives were actually ALTERNATIVES rofl.
You want this sleek neat inspiring machine? How about something not sleek, not inspiring in the slightest? HAVE FUN!
Why even buy an instrument at all? I mean all you need is a computer from 20 years ago from a daw from that era and you can probably still crank out a hit IF you can get yourself to want to do that. Want a guitar? How about instead you get a $100 keyboard with a guitar/chord synth, same thing!
Want to play the drums? Don't bother even thinking about getting a drum kit, just play samples with a touch screen on your phone, same thing!
These videos aren't "wrong", they're kind of just a huge wet blanket; and I'm sure it helps folks save money and maybe inspire them in different way but let's not pretend anything put forth here is even kind of reasonable as an actual alternative.
You got it, I made them funnily useful and money saving.
Love milkytracker. it's why i bought the Polyend. I use it for chunky drum sampling and sequencing VCV Rack, which is free!
Milky tracker is great, you probably should mention it supports Linux as well.
Also if you already own a bunch of Linux based handheld consoles why not try LGPT which is really a more powerful LSDJ which supports samples and is much closer to a M8 than LSDJ.
Finally obviously one of the main attractions of M8 is the protability, it's pretty hard to put your MacBook in your pocket...
I have LGPT running great on the Miyoo Mini CFW on my Powkiddy Q90. Would recommend!
@@reidfamilydroid Yep I have LGPT running very well on a Anbernic rg280v too. Theres a great tutorial on how to set it up on it here: ruclips.net/video/cTixrLxR7fs/видео.html
Used LGPT for years. It's a great little program.
I used FastTracker II when it was new... The one Milkytracker is based on
The algorithm delivers. Thank you, sir.
Yes. Milky tracker makes me happy.
I'm downloading it now......great video as usual. Thanks
Thats true - computer is more powerfull and cheaper, but nothing like hardware. I hate to make music in Daw etc. but I love my mpc
this kinda sums up what i thought about polyend tracker when i first saw it. i mean it is very cool and being a standalone box has it's advantages but literally even a shittiest smallest laptop with any freeware tracker (or renoise) installed gives you exact same capabilities if not more xD plus an inbuilt battery which polyend traker doesn't have :P
Awesome . I'll have to check it out. I ordered the M8 due to it's versatility and portability.
a laptop is also very versatile and portable. never understood this whole shitting-on-computers thing
Even though Renoise and Sunvox do look better and seemingly more powerful, special gratitude for showing the MilkyTracker (made in 🇺🇦)
I cannot imagine what a pain In the neck to use dirtywave m8 without a proper keyboard.
Actually because it's UI is optimised for just using a small number of buttons, as LSDJ pioneered using MI is exceptionally fast without a full qwerty keyboard
Always on point.
thank god youre on a tracker kick the same time i am, great vid
Seems like most people won't have the patients to do any of this. Its already daunting enough to learn and know enough to get to the point of being able to use this, that by the time you do, you know there are better easier ways for a reason.
I really wanted the M8, but then Ableton Note let me pretty satisfied! I think Ableton Note is the perfect pocket groovebox.
You can also DIY a "headless" version of the M8 Tracker: ruclips.net/video/xBVt6wn_b88/видео.html (Not my video)
thanks, but I'll stick with my headless M8 setup. (It costs less than $45).
What kind of setup did you do?
This is what I needed! Thank you!
That was fun. Thank you and God bless 🙂🙏🏼❤️
This channel is so funny 😂❤
Good video. Just Subscribed.
Milky Tracker X is nice as well. Extra features.
Yes, I was interested in checking out tracker. You showed me how without dipping into my wallet. Cheers!
Tough to replace the M8 since it's so fast and powerful in a package that honestly kind of makes it super fast with the button combos. I am sure the headless option was mentioned so you can just install it on your laptop and have a M8 for like $30. I went from that to the real thing and for $550, it's worth it, imo. I agree with most of your videos though, especially the MPC one. I just think there is nothing like carrying the M8 around and mastering the button combos. It's a special experience, and not crazy expensive for what it can do. Also you didn't really show how you sequence hardware with MIDI out, which is a big feature of this thing.
my 300 dollar laptop runs renoise and has a full sized keyboard - way more convenient imo. The M8 is cool but it is kind of expensive for what it is...
@@trevor_mounts_music disagree, the m8 is faster than using a keyboard. i have renoise on my laptop too. its also awesome but the m8 is a different experience.
Sorry to necro this, but as far as free alternatives go, littlegpt on a handheld gets pretty close to the M8. They're both based on lsdj so they have basically the same control scheme. The M8 is obviously way more powerful feature wise but the general workflow is nearly identical. Totally worth it if you happen to have a psp or ps vita laying around to install it on.
@tezeta3725 wow! Thanks for the info, first time hearing it and I'm downloading it now!
@@playpm No problem! Like I said the M8 is definitely more powerful, littlegpt doesn't have any synth engines and only very rudimentary ability to manipulate samples (plus probably the worst sounding filter I've ever heard). But as far workflow they're almost identical, they have basically the same button combos so you can get really fast with both of them.
You can also press the 'Cln' button to create a clone of the current pattern for modifying, no need to select-all/copy/paste.
Thanks for the tip! Definitely gonna try it~
hell yeah milky tracker is great!
Thank you very much! You've saved me a ton of bucks!
I'm using Schism Tracker which is port of Impulse Tracker which run on DOS. It is free 👍 P. S. It is also multi platform MAC/PC/LINUX...
Protracker for Amiga has been free forever. Has no one considered that all "trackers" come from The Ultimate Soundtracker and it's variant evolution Protracker? Milkytracker is also just a Win XP variant of FastTracker2, which creates .xm files. The better choice for creating strictly audio-driven music with a tracker interface should be with Renoise, not Milky. Protracker creates .mod files, FastTracker2 = .xm files, Scream Tracker = .s3m files, and Impulse Tracker = .it files. Still, there is this blind spot and ignorance that tracker music has a significant assocation with Amiga and DOS music. Otherwise, use Renoise for whatever experimenting in interface only. Polyend Tracker continues to fumble with .mod importing.
Sunvox ❤️ Have you tried it? You can ise your own samples.
Thank you!
I was shocked when Polyend Tracker came out. I mean, I remembered my teenage years when my friend had shown me a DAW (it was FL Studio 4, I think) and I was surprised how better and more intuitive it was after trackers which I had been using back then. I have moved to DAWs and never got back.
And now, in 2021 (?) Polyend Tracker came out, and I was like, why do I actually need a separate box for that kind of workflow?
Because variety is the mother of creativity. Limitations forces you to try new ways to achieve what you want, which often leads to unexpected and unique exeriences.
... but you don't specifically need anything more than your own body to make music.
@@gutterg0d The last one is the ultimate truth, brother! Totally agree.
You should check out Renoise and their plugin Redux which you can use in your DAW for sample tracking.
I'd say Renoise for the win for tracker based workflow and as others have said here, it's free and only paid if you want vst support or wave /aiff export. Whichever, at the price it is it's totally worth it. I think you could have made your point better with a Polyend tracker and possible M8 in front of you, to really get annoyed with the gear 😅 but anyway thanks for gas therapy 👍🏻
Some just love trackers but don't want to pay that much attention on them 😊
@@playpm yea can understand that, but actually the tracker workflow is only half the argument. Polyend sell a black box limited to 8 audio tracks, limited fx per channel and hardware with documented issues, then ships the same product months after release with a plastic casing instead of metal, and at a higher price. Dirtywave M8 is a lot more value for money and transparent in it's build and development process. However, it is handheld with limited input buttons and a small screen. Just think given the gas therapy there's a lot more for you to argue against than the tracker workflow.
A teensy 4.1 is around $30-40 USD and you can put M8 firmware on it
You can make a headless M8 for 30 bucks.
The desktop version of sunvox is free!!!! Definitely a better solution!!!
Use Renoise bro
1:45 - this is not true, you dont have to pair m8 with anything and it’s more powerful than polyend tracker. The only thing in which PT excels is having more ticks per steps for shuffling. Source: i have both and recently PT is collecting dust while I use m8 most of the time
What is the maximum ticks per step on the Polyend? I didn't realize it went above the maximum you could configure on the M8.
@@jefftheworld 100 as I remember correctly. M8 has 6 in straight pattern. Does not really bother me too much since you can offset that time in drum samples
@@jefftheworld you can also micromove individual steps in polyend tracker
@@LostStylus That's just the default. M8 can be configured with up to 254 step ticks.
For a shuffle/swing you can set up to 16 different step tick values in a groove table and each step will use the next number of ticks in the list.
A recommendation for something closer to the Polyend Tracker for free is OpenMPT. The Tracker can export IT files, but OpenMPT's own MPTM format extends it with support for VSTs, as well as native effect. It can also emulate the OPL soundchip native to the S3M tracker format, which does not allow the use of effects, but gives limited synthesis. It's Windows-native, but they also support running it in Wine on Linux and MacOS.
i never like doing anything on a tracker type of sequencer or work flow because its workflow is very time consuming,
but anyways there is also tracker call sunvox which is a tracker that is not free on some platforms but it’s closed to free because the app is only $5.99 and is on almost every platform, window, android and ios for example
and its always getting updates and im sure that it can do much more then any tracker hardware…
(It just feels great to jump back to 21th century after done with this video)
@@playpm 😂
That's exactly that. The tracker workflow is way faster then any other music workflow because it was created by computer minded individuals and not musicians. The learning curve for musicians is steep. Before getting to that that fast workflow, musicians have alot to learn and to unlearn. During this time, it is way slower then making music in another way. And I understand clearly how one won't put the time on it as it seems way less productive and fun to use tracker this time.
Workflow is the best part about the trackers, nothing is faster than a tracker. Here's 5 minutes of my and maybe your time, too: ruclips.net/video/xstPA-MDe6w/видео.html
@D34DB34T To each his own.
I didn’t say you were faster with it… seeing some people using it, the screens look like tetris tournaments; we can barely know what is going on. So no doubt it could be the fastest way. Since this comment some months ago, it’s not the fastest workflow for me anymore since I use Koala Sampler now. For my way of working it’s the fastest to resample. And the “limited” possibilities compare to the near limitless possibilities of trackers helps for me. Sometimes it’s good to be focus! 😂
Hey, I'd love to buy a triangle but obviously, considering the cost of such a great instrument, I was wondering if maybe you had a free triangle alternative?
Thanks, I didn't want to fork out 500 bucks for msDos or Terminal based synthesis 😘
I know very little about the sample world and less than nothing about trackers! I am completely lost but very interested haha!
This is off topic, but I just have one (probably dumb) question-
Which piece of music gear/groove box do you think, would best fit in the “beginner-friendly” category..?
(Beginner, also as in- they’ve never had or bought a groovebox before and they wanna see what’s it’s like to go dawless, but don’t know where to start)
And I’m so Sorry to bother you, I know this question is dumb- but I still would really love to know what you think..
By beginner if you mean not too much menu diving then it would be korg volcas, but they're way too limited on each own. More function means more controls, means probably more menu diving therefore steeper learning curve, I got no perfect answer, you will always feel like a beginner on every groovebox. If you mean mean beginner on music making/music theory, then I suggest start from piano or guitar, solid music theory supports you to go further.
honestly i still might look at getting a polyend just for the sample editing because milkytracker is fairly basic in that respect (or maybe im just mad that theres no timestretch) but its good to get my hands on a tracker before looking at paying for something
I definitly got the urge to order the m8, but it isnt available rn, and the price is a bit steep. Ended up getting a used lenovo laptop running a i5 processir and install linux and renoise ... Paid about 15% of the m8 price and honestly got a lot more features. .
I turned my Steam Deck into a M8 for $40 with a Teensy 4.1 and Dirtywave's free M8 Headless firmware.
Why did you not mention the free version of M8.
Because you have to buy some Teensy usb chip and an extra monitor and hdmi cable and an SD card for the free software, which not many people have, not like a cheap well-assembled computer.
I guess the next step is going to be suggesting free alternatives to sample libraries, no? :)
We'll get there 😆
Ahem… Renoise is far and away the best tracker and the free version is excellent. It really is the best tracker objectively
"objectively"? Well, I prefer Sunvox but I get your point.
if you want a tracker that is a DAW, it is probably the best choice. hardly an objective "best tracker" though. some just do different things than others. openMPT is "best" for back compatibility and file format options, renoise is best for more DAW-adjacent production, etc.
I've not used renoise but definitely another vote here for how great Sunvox is and it will run on devices as low powered as an old Palm organiser.
@@maximerobin I actually really enjoy Sunvox so thanks for chiming in, I should have said "most capable and well rounded" and not "best"
@@DoctorSoctopus “best” is really subjective. I used Renoise a lot. To make it simple in my view, Renoise is easier to use but Sunvox can make more complex things. Renoise is in no way light and Sunvox is not incomprehensible but which is “best” really depends on the person using it.
Awesome!
thanks for sharing that cool option. still not sure, why the tracker thing seems to be more appealing to some than using a proper DAW. But for those who love it, its a great option to those expensive hardware toys :)
Great stuff! Is there an equivalent to the Polyend Tracker's Fill function? I've been thinking about writing my own tracker just to look at that kind of generative function 😅
Renoise does
Renoise and Sunvox do this. It may be named differently but it's there. The one in Sunvox is pretty extensive. It can generate stuff quite more complex but the way PT implements it is way faster.
Renoise's is not quite the same as the Polyend feature, though we are discussing on the forums how to add similar functionality. That's one thing I love about Renoise is that the community often builds extensions and plugins to add features.
@@TedCurran That's one important thing about the trackers, many of those tools have great communities.
Good video, for me is better Renoise
i'm getting that M8. But yeah, sub'd i'm a very gas oriented type of person. I have to purchase like 3 pieces of gear to make half a song.
help.
M8tracker defeated any reason to have GAS on my part 😅
milkytracker and lsdj/m8c/ntrq have completely different workflows. people gravitate to the plane-view ui of LSDJ/m8c/ntrq due to the efficiency with switching menus and fleshing out tracks. once you have these menus memorized it is a completely different experience. another point would be to have a portable device that is smol for travel which is not what a laptop is. for instance i used to write a lot of music on the dingoo with ntrq which would fit into my pocket and i would just have headphones with. ultimately i will be purchasing a uconsole to install renoise on as my travel DAW because it hits a lot of reqs im looking for.
Which Midi keyboard do you recommend for the ipad?
Each one will work for your ipad, it depends on your playing skill background and what you want to achieve.
Is there a good tracker app for android? To have a similar feeling like with the M8? I mean to make traker music with your phone?
Milkytracker is also in Google play store, but the touch experience won't be great, I suggest you try run LSDJ on an Gameboy emulator first.
@@playpm Thanks Michael, LSDJ is great, but as you said, it doesnt support samples and doesnt has a "propper" synth engine
hardware trackers are such a weird phenomenon, trackers were all about using computers
Or use pro-tracker on an Amiga, for RUclips and instagram likes 😀
Nothing is portable here, you’re better off using m8headless with some handheld device if you want to do it on budget
Renoise is the best alternative and very cheap for a DAW
I mean yeah that's cool and all but some people would like to get OFF the computer. Some get easily distracted. Also, you can't take your MacBook with you in your pocket. What's easier to flip out when you're waiting on the bus or on the bus. A MacBook or a smartphone sized Tracker?
If you're broke, just say so 😂
Everyone who actually owns an m8 loves it.
Its also open source, so you can make your own with a teensy microcontroller.
Its also just lsdj but with more features 😂
People who buy it 100% already know what they're getting. It really feels like you're just mad that you dont have one.
As many others have said, you dont seem to mention Sunvox at all in this video? Im not going to finish it to bother finding out.
If not, then this is obviously just hate-trash; not a genuine means of helping artists find better tools.
I like your videos, pretty funny, but hardware is totally different than using a computer, especially windows which is a PITA to use for music due to the constant need to update the OS.
@playpm you should check out SunVox its a small, fast and powerful modular synthesizer with pattern-based sequencer (tracker). It is a tool for those people who like to compose music wherever they are, whenever they wish. On any device. On any system.
renoise tracker has a free version as well.
Demo?
@@toitoitoy demos are already on youtube . Another great free tracker software is Sun Vox , ios has it as well buts its a paid version .
Try m8 headless
Are you speeding up your voice? It sounds very strange... It is very hard to listen but interesting.
No, but I'm sorry for my accent.
👀
its funny but I thought why do people not just use a laptop instead of these {soy tracker synth boxes}
Protrekkr is a more modern version of MilkyTracker
Thanks for sharing, will give it a go!
SunVox