What a great guy! I kept a psammophis when I was in my teens. They are hardly ever mentioned nowadays. It's great that his animals are living such long lives. Re incubation: Crittacam did a video showing one of his carpet pythons wrapped round her eggs, taking a rodent (pre-killed): it was charming!
Yep, Francis is awesome! I’d never even heard of psammophis before this, it’s kind of a shame that we’ve lost so much species diversity in the hobby. Thanks for listening always!
One of my pet hates about the hobby is when people say, yeahhh I used to "work" with so and so but I got rid of them and got something else. People don't buy dogs and then after a few years get rid of it and get a different breed. In my opinion if you purchase a snake you are signed up to care for that for the rest of its life. Of course there are circumstances where people have to move on their snakes or they are being kept so terriblly for what ever reason that they should move on for their own well-being. And you shouldn't keep a snake for the sake of it if it's being neglected but again it's a life that needs us to keep it alive. Snakes by nature are so easy to neglect and be able to get away with it, but it doesn't mean people should. I have been keeping for 16 years and there are long periods of time when I am super hyped by my snakes and I can't leave them alone, and I read about them and watch them constantly. Then I have times over a few weeks on months where I am not so hyped, I of course care for them in the same way but they don't grab my attention like they did two weeks ago, but I'm not going to get rid of them...anyway rant over. I have spoken and been helped by Francis on many occasions, they bloke is a legend, and to hear him talk about his animals and his guilt for keeping animals in tubs previously shows real passion and love for what he does.
Very much agree! I do think each animal purchased should be considered a life commitment. I think we all go through that oscillation that you're talking about, I go through moments of dis-interest all the time, but that doesn't mean I should move the reptile along to another home. Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts!
This was a great conversation and articulates a lot of my personal thoughts about improving my own husbandry and advocating for higher minimum standards of care. I am here for this. So much to chew on and I’ll definitely be re-listening to this!
Can’t believe I’m just getting round to watching this, should have watched way sooner. But nonetheless wonderful episode, and definitely would be awesome to have a follow up episode with Francis, I’m sure 5 wouldn’t be enough 🤣 Very interesting to hear more about his experience working at Jersey Zoo, living in Jersey myself I’ve been to the zoo many times and the Herpetology Department always amazes me!
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast I was meant to watch it the day it came out, but I found myself tied down by chores and then forgot about it 🤣 silly me, it was one of the most enjoyable episodes to date I thoroughly enjoyed it! If you make it over to Jersey one day, it would be awesome to meet up, would be great for you to come here, it’s a zoo which won’t disappoint!! Not massive by any means, but I thoroughly enjoy each visit!
There are best practices for making money, and there are best practices for keeping healthy well-adjusted pets, and while they do not have to be mutually exclusive they usually are because, with a few exceptions, the keeper who gives his animals the absolute best care can rarely get enough money to cover that care and make a noticeable profit due to his competitors cutting corners and selling cheaper. By the way, I like this guy. Great episode once again.
Really great episode, I'm sure you could have gone for hours. Covered lot's of topics and found Francis thoughts on things like UV and respiratory illnesses quite fascinating. Look forward to the next one :-)
Thanks for this - Francis offers consistently good information, I really enjoy his posts so it's great to see and hear him in (one of) his natural environment(s). He is one of many people who reminds me of how little I know and has the grace to not make me feel bad about it rather I feel excited that there is so much to consider and learn. Oh speaking of his posts - it's possible he knows the character limit by heart because he has bumped up against it a number of times! Small point - my first Russian ratsnake breeding was a surprise that happened with a young male who had not brumated. Probably different for females.
i could listen to that guy for days. i have spoken with him once or twice on forums and i always take the time to read his posts. i would get on to AHH but i cant stand facebook and really dont want to use it. i may have to look into the events though.
Question for Francis: you mentioned the benefits of UVB that you have noticed like larger eggs and no egg binding. You also mentioned that you wait for animals to age more before breeding. I’m curious what is the oldest snake you have breed and produced good eggs from? I’m asking because I see a lot of breeders on the hognose side retire their girls at 6-9 years old when these snakes can live 15-25 years in captivity. Ive also seen mention about keeping the males smaller because they stay more fertile. What interests me most about breeding snakes is how heat and lighting effect fertility rate. I want to breed small scale and my hogs mean a lot to me so it’s really got me thinking how I can maximize the longevity of my animals and minimize common breeding issues that can be life threatening.
Not sure why but Francis is having an issue replying to this (every time he replies, it disappears). I am going to copy and paste his response! below: "Hi! Francis here. Sorry if this appears twice, I thought I had replied before but cannot see it now. Just to reiterate my belief that UV affects egg, clutch and hatchling size is purely anecdotal, I do not believe it has ever been tested, it is just something I observe myself. That said: So the oldest I have bred female snakes is around 17-18 years old in Japanese (Elaphe climacophora) and Russian (E. schrenckii) rat snakes, as they get to their second decade I tend to retire the females from breeding. It is important to remember though that in the wild, Black rat snakes (for which this data exists) may mature and breed as late as their 7th or 8th year in the north of their range, and as young as 4 further south. It seems to depend on whether they are able to brumate; since brumation reduces how much time they are active each year and thus how much growing they can do. I have no doubt that some of these animals could breed well after 20, I just prefer not to push them. So I think retiring a Hognose at 6-9 is probably a bit premature (I have Hognoses that I purchased in 2003 that are still healthy and active). But that is down to the breeder, it is not for me to judge. At some point between 20-30 (usually around or after 25-30 depending on species) I notice there comes a time when my rat snakes start hitting senescence at the end of their lifespans. At this point they start noticeably losing muscle tone, slow down considerably and can only eat small prey. Usually this means they only have a year or two left in them before passing, and so I stop brumating them and take care to keep them comfortable and feed small prey items. Certainly I would never attempt to breed a snake that has got to this point. But sure, I have animals in their twenties that are still hale and hearty and I am sure COULD breed."
As a fellow UK keeper, I would like to ask if Francis has any tips in mitigating the high costs of electricity in this country, which can sometimes be quiet prohibitive. Dillon, as always, fantastic work!
Thank you for listening, glad you enjoyed it! I asked Francis this, the first thing he said was don’t keep tropical species haha and the next thing he said was, unfortunately there is really no way around the electrical expense.
Hi! Yep with energy prices going up, there is not really a great way to mitigate costs of electricity, especially with a larger collection, and when using several different pieces of electrical equipment per enclosure. The single best way is to keep mainly temperate or cool-habitat species that do not require heat at night. That way you can have all the equipment off for at least 8-10 hours in the day! (And even then, many will appreciate low level heat from something like a small mat, at least during the summer). Good thermostatic control should also help, as does ensuring you are strict with power on and power off times every day.
_Just to be clear I'm not referring specifically to this podcast_ I've been out of the 'hobby' for a number of years now so I'm really enjoying these podcasts. No bs and unnecessary filler. I've always been an advocate of animal welfare and rights, even getting myself into some less than ideal situations in my youth involving rescuing various animals, hunt saboteuring etc. But a lot of the attitudes I'm noticing now online seem to be a huge amount of sanctimonious virtue signalling, one-upmanship and flexing. Someone has set up a 2' vivarium for two Mourning Geckos. Then someone comes along who has set up a 4' bioactive viv for a pair of Mourning Geckos. Next person comes along, asserts a 5' viv is the minimum for one, shames everyone keeping two in a 18"x24" viv and then proudly announces they have an entire spare room devoted to one. Obviously I'm exaggerating but where do we draw the line? Francis himself mentioned Snakes in their wild environment, climbing high walls and eating bats. So again, should the minimum to keep them in captivity include a 15' tall vivarium and a diet of bats and wild birds? Or should we just not keep them at all? Technically that would be better for the animals, right? I get that reptiles have had a real bad time of things since probably the early 80's but what I've noticed seems to be an almost over compensation for that. It's awesome that people are advocating proper husbandry and animal welfare, but it seems to have gone the other direction. I can say it's putting me off getting back into keeping reptiles and I still have some knowledge and experience, although it may be dated. Someone totally new isn't going to stand a chance. Just to reiterate, I'm not suggesting any animal should be kept with minimum care, reptile or otherwise!
I have only just seen this so sorry for the late reply but I will make a few comments as it is a topic I have seen posed any number of times in response to the idea of improving the way we as a hobby keep these animals. First of all, it is important to know I don't believe people need to justify keeping pets. I do however believe that sometimes they need to justify HOW they keep them. On the question 'should the minimum to keep them in captivity include a 15' tall vivarium and a diet of bats and wild birds? Or should we just not keep them at all? Technically that would be better for the animals, right?' My answer would be - no. (But if you CAN, that would be awesome). BUT learning about their habits certainly should factor in how you house them - do they climb? OK, maybe I will increase the height of their enclosure from 45cm to 90cm. Will they eat birds? Cool, I can work day old chicks and quail chicks into their diet to vary it. Very easy fix, absolutely no need to provide a 15' wall. After all, learning about these animals is what the hobby is all about isn't it? A good example - I keep several different species of Psammophis (sand snakes). Which, having chased them around North Africa in my child hood, I assumed were strictly terrestrial and never really provided much of any height - 45-60cm seemed enough. A few years back I got a few new specimens and the only viv I had available to quarantine them in was a 90x90cm enclosure full of branches rather than the usual longer, lower enclosures I used for that genus. And to my surprise the Psammophis spent almost all their time up in the branches watching their surroundings. Further study made me realise these snakes climb up into low bushes or fence posts and watch for prey and predators from there. So now I make sure I give all my Psammophis an extra foot or two of height. It does not need to be a tree, but three feet rather than two feet is good! To quote Gordon Burghardt: captivity is deprivation. HOWEVER the assumption that captivity can never fully replicate 'the wild' is not a reason to give up trying to improve things entirely. I believe any good, thoughtful keeper will wrestle with the question 'should I be doing this?' at one point or other. We know that there are plenty of improvements we can make that positively affect our pets in various ways, and we know there are things that negatively affect them. The way I see it, there are three possible directions we can go: 1. Decide that you are not happy with the level of care you can provide and stop keeping altogether. 2. Decide to improve your keeping. 3. Decide to put your fingers in your ears and continue as you are. Me personally, I am very much an advocate for option 2. My aim is to provide my pets as good a captive environment as possible within my means. For me, that means at the very least: i. an enclosure no less than the length of the snake. ii. Several types of overhead bulb (heater to provide IR-a, light to provide UVB and if possible one more as well for 'full spectrum'). iii. Seasonal and daily cycling appropriate to the species. iv. Environment and habitat appropriate to the species, but at the very least the opportunity to get its whole body off the ground, burrow, and a choice of hides. v. Choice of humidity. vi. Thermal gradient appropriate to the species vii. Prey appropriate to the species, as varied as I can make it, and fed at a healthy rate (i.e. not overfed or underfed). viii. Appropriate biosecurity. All that sounds super complicated. It isn't in the least. And it is implicitly tied to choosing a suitable pet, and a suitable number of pets, to suit your means. It is a sad fact that a lot of people would rather buy another pet than spend that money to provide better care to a snake they already have. Much more tempting to buy that cute hatchling from the pet shop than the £40 UVB rig! I think a big part of the issue is the 'gotta catch 'em all' Pokemon mentality where people feel the need to collect more and more animals but cannot provide IDEALISED rather than MINIMUM standard care to the animals they have. My opinion - and it is just that, an opinion - is that money is better spent first improving existing care than purchasing new animals... and that the animals one DOES keep should be species one can provide great care for - I say that as somebody with a very large collection of very small reptiles! However I do also believe that a WELL KEPT reptile in captivity, while missing out factors from a wild environment, also benefits as an individual from being in captivity. Regular feeding, safe environment, protection from extremes of weather, protection from parasites and competition and predation, protection from being beaten to death with a stick or squashed on a road. In short, it is a 'safe' life and at this point in my career, with multiple animals well into their thirties and even more in their late twenties, it seems to me that a lot of my snakes seem to at least be matching if not exceeding wild lifespans (we do not have much reliable wild data on snake lifespans but one group we DO is rat snakes, which seem to last 20-30 years in the wild... my rat snakes are lasting at least that long in captivity so I believe I am discharging my duty as a pet owner to get them there. There is of course a trade-off here. No, you probably won't be able to offer the full scope of enrichment that a wild environment does... but you also offer protection from the more dangerous aspects of living in the wild and I believe this balances out nicely. So I have never personally felt that keeping reptiles is 'wrong' although I do feel certain WAYS of keeping them are wrong... As to the 'sanctimonious virtue signalling, one-upmanship and flexing' - that is human nature and it happens with all hobbies. Most people treat a hobby as a hobby, but a small percentage feel the need to excel, to be the best, to show off the extreme, to display their greatness on Facebook, RUclips, social media. Let them. I know people that house their snakes in huge elaborate planted enclosures far more complex and larger than mine. Personally, seeing such achievements always impresses and inspires me; it certainly does not make me doubt my own keeping seeing people doing things I cannot. I find seeing and learning from better keepers than me invigorating, not intimidating. I CERTAINLY and ABSOLUTELY prefer that to witnessing the absolute travesty some keepers feel comfortable enacting upon their pets and I certainly think that a zeitgeist where people are showing off bigger and better enclosures is preferable to one where people treat the animals like non-living things. :) I did make another long comment on the video link that Dillon appended above also, which further elaborates my mindset on 'how good is good enough?' Kindest regards, Francis
Interesting podcast. One thing that did seem hypocritical was Francis's dig at Brian Barczyk. Yes we all know about his rack'em and stack'em BHB business, but since opening his reptarium he's gone the other way, which some fantastic large, well furnished enclosures with all the UV and IR lamps. If he really wanted to have a dig at the commercial breeders, or even those that proclaim to be pet owners that cram royals into tubs then there are plenty of others he could have used. One thing I do agree with is viv size.... all my Royal pythons are in vivs that are either 100cm x 40cm x 35cm (LxWxH) or 120cm x 35cm x 40cm (L x W x H). Back in the late 1990's it was often quoted that the distance between diagonally opposing corners (ie bottom front left to top back right) should be the same as the snake, or minimum 75% it's length. Greate video, looking forward to the next
Barczyk still has thousands of animals in that rack style, and still uploads videos of it (4 days ago to be exact). Just because he has the new zoo, I don't believe he is above criticism at all. It was Dillon that named Barczyk, Francis kept quiet lol. Im more than happy to back Dillon and call out a number of em for their bullshit personally, but Francis chose to not even mention any names.
@@ReptilesandResearch I stand corrected... I was sure Francis made reference to him, but can't be bothered to spend two hours listening to this again just to prove a point. I'm not a fan of Barczyk, but you have to agree that his anaconda enclosure goes that extra mile.
@@ReptilesandResearch doesn't offer the snake much in terms of privacy though. Its a decent size and has a good sized pool but it's open on all sides and relatively sparsely furnished. I don't know if it affects that particular snake but it doesn't have many hides if any. Admittedly I've not watched it for quite a while so this might have changed.
I rather keep my senior leopard gecko in a 4x2x2 bioactive enclosure with halogen bulb, uvb and visible light than tossing him a minimalistic rack system!
great video and shout out to boot. Im blushing. Big love xx
Thanks for listening! FYI... you’re on my list of eventual guests as well 😉 I’ll reach out to you at some point!
What a great guy! I kept a psammophis when I was in my teens. They are hardly ever mentioned nowadays. It's great that his animals are living such long lives. Re incubation: Crittacam did a video showing one of his carpet pythons wrapped round her eggs, taking a rodent (pre-killed): it was charming!
Yep, Francis is awesome! I’d never even heard of psammophis before this, it’s kind of a shame that we’ve lost so much species diversity in the hobby. Thanks for listening always!
One of my pet hates about the hobby is when people say, yeahhh I used to "work" with so and so but I got rid of them and got something else. People don't buy dogs and then after a few years get rid of it and get a different breed. In my opinion if you purchase a snake you are signed up to care for that for the rest of its life. Of course there are circumstances where people have to move on their snakes or they are being kept so terriblly for what ever reason that they should move on for their own well-being. And you shouldn't keep a snake for the sake of it if it's being neglected but again it's a life that needs us to keep it alive. Snakes by nature are so easy to neglect and be able to get away with it, but it doesn't mean people should. I have been keeping for 16 years and there are long periods of time when I am super hyped by my snakes and I can't leave them alone, and I read about them and watch them constantly. Then I have times over a few weeks on months where I am not so hyped, I of course care for them in the same way but they don't grab my attention like they did two weeks ago, but I'm not going to get rid of them...anyway rant over. I have spoken and been helped by Francis on many occasions, they bloke is a legend, and to hear him talk about his animals and his guilt for keeping animals in tubs previously shows real passion and love for what he does.
Very much agree! I do think each animal purchased should be considered a life commitment. I think we all go through that oscillation that you're talking about, I go through moments of dis-interest all the time, but that doesn't mean I should move the reptile along to another home. Thanks for listening and sharing your thoughts!
My favorite podcast thus far. Francis is awe inspiring.
Thanks, Victoria! I agree, he is incredibly inspiring!
This was a great conversation and articulates a lot of my personal thoughts about improving my own husbandry and advocating for higher minimum standards of care. I am here for this. So much to chew on and I’ll definitely be re-listening to this!
Thank you for listening, Alyssa! I am glad you enjoyed it, hopefully you get a chance to check out some of the other episodes as well 😊
Brilliant episode
Thanks, mate!
Can’t believe I’m just getting round to watching this, should have watched way sooner. But nonetheless wonderful episode, and definitely would be awesome to have a follow up episode with Francis, I’m sure 5 wouldn’t be enough 🤣
Very interesting to hear more about his experience working at Jersey Zoo, living in Jersey myself I’ve been to the zoo many times and the Herpetology Department always amazes me!
haha wow, I can't believe you've only just got to this one 😜 Thanks for watching, Harry! I would love to visit the Jersey Zoo, sounds amazing!
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast I was meant to watch it the day it came out, but I found myself tied down by chores and then forgot about it 🤣 silly me, it was one of the most enjoyable episodes to date I thoroughly enjoyed it!
If you make it over to Jersey one day, it would be awesome to meet up, would be great for you to come here, it’s a zoo which won’t disappoint!! Not massive by any means, but I thoroughly enjoy each visit!
@@harrynewton9045 Glad you liked it! If I ever make it over there... I will definitely let you know!
A fantastic episode packed with great information!
Thank you, sir!
There are best practices for making money, and there are best practices for keeping healthy well-adjusted pets, and while they do not have to be mutually exclusive they usually are because, with a few exceptions, the keeper who gives his animals the absolute best care can rarely get enough money to cover that care and make a noticeable profit due to his competitors cutting corners and selling cheaper. By the way, I like this guy.
Great episode once again.
Thanks man, glad you enjoyed the episode! Yep, there is always a guy willing to cut corners to keep prices low... it’s unfortunate
Absolutely fantastic interview!
So glad I found this Podcast. Well done.
Is this your first episode? You have some catching up to do! 😉 thanks for listening 🙏🏻
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast I'm ashamed to say yes it is. And I will be going through every episode.
I’m glad you found the show! Enjoy!
Great video. So much knowledge.
Glad you enjoyed it
Really great episode, I'm sure you could have gone for hours. Covered lot's of topics and found Francis thoughts on things like UV and respiratory illnesses quite fascinating. Look forward to the next one :-)
Thanks, Dave! There will definitely be a next one… I think we are going to get Francis in on the next Round Table 🤫
Thanks for this - Francis offers consistently good information, I really enjoy his posts so it's great to see and hear him in (one of) his natural environment(s). He is one of many people who reminds me of how little I know and has the grace to not make me feel bad about it rather I feel excited that there is so much to consider and learn.
Oh speaking of his posts - it's possible he knows the character limit by heart because he has bumped up against it a number of times!
Small point - my first Russian ratsnake breeding was a surprise that happened with a young male who had not brumated. Probably different for females.
Thanks for listening, Edward! I'm glad you enjoyed the episode. haha and yes, that's exactly why he knows there is a character limit!
i could listen to that guy for days. i have spoken with him once or twice on forums and i always take the time to read his posts. i would get on to AHH but i cant stand facebook and really dont want to use it. i may have to look into the events though.
Yes, he is brilliant! AHH is the only positive on Facebook 😂
Loved the show can't wait fore future ones
Thanks, Thomas!
Thanks for listening to the episode! If you are interested in an Animals at Home Podcast shirt, click here: www.animalsathome.ca/shop/
Question for Francis: you mentioned the benefits of UVB that you have noticed like larger eggs and no egg binding. You also mentioned that you wait for animals to age more before breeding. I’m curious what is the oldest snake you have breed and produced good eggs from? I’m asking because I see a lot of breeders on the hognose side retire their girls at 6-9 years old when these snakes can live 15-25 years in captivity. Ive also seen mention about keeping the males smaller because they stay more fertile. What interests me most about breeding snakes is how heat and lighting effect fertility rate. I want to breed small scale and my hogs mean a lot to me so it’s really got me thinking how I can maximize the longevity of my animals and minimize common breeding issues that can be life threatening.
I’ll see if I can get Francis to chime in on this! Thanks for watching 👌🏼
Not sure why but Francis is having an issue replying to this (every time he replies, it disappears). I am going to copy and paste his response! below:
"Hi! Francis here. Sorry if this appears twice, I thought I had replied before but cannot see it now. Just to reiterate my belief that UV affects egg, clutch and hatchling size is purely anecdotal, I do not believe it has ever been tested, it is just something I observe myself. That said: So the oldest I have bred female snakes is around 17-18 years old in Japanese (Elaphe climacophora) and Russian (E. schrenckii) rat snakes, as they get to their second decade I tend to retire the females from breeding. It is important to remember though that in the wild, Black rat snakes (for which this data exists) may mature and breed as late as their 7th or 8th year in the north of their range, and as young as 4 further south. It seems to depend on whether they are able to brumate; since brumation reduces how much time they are active each year and thus how much growing they can do. I have no doubt that some of these animals could breed well after 20, I just prefer not to push them. So I think retiring a Hognose at 6-9 is probably a bit premature (I have Hognoses that I purchased in 2003 that are still healthy and active). But that is down to the breeder, it is not for me to judge. At some point between 20-30 (usually around or after 25-30 depending on species) I notice there comes a time when my rat snakes start hitting senescence at the end of their lifespans. At this point they start noticeably losing muscle tone, slow down considerably and can only eat small prey. Usually this means they only have a year or two left in them before passing, and so I stop brumating them and take care to keep them comfortable and feed small prey items. Certainly I would never attempt to breed a snake that has got to this point. But sure, I have animals in their twenties that are still hale and hearty and I am sure COULD breed."
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast Thank you and thank you Francis for the very informative response!!
nice reptile channel👍👍👍
Thank you! 😀
As a fellow UK keeper, I would like to ask if Francis has any tips in mitigating the high costs of electricity in this country, which can sometimes be quiet prohibitive.
Dillon, as always, fantastic work!
Thank you for listening, glad you enjoyed it! I asked Francis this, the first thing he said was don’t keep tropical species haha and the next thing he said was, unfortunately there is really no way around the electrical expense.
Hi! Yep with energy prices going up, there is not really a great way to mitigate costs of electricity, especially with a larger collection, and when using several different pieces of electrical equipment per enclosure. The single best way is to keep mainly temperate or cool-habitat species that do not require heat at night. That way you can have all the equipment off for at least 8-10 hours in the day! (And even then, many will appreciate low level heat from something like a small mat, at least during the summer). Good thermostatic control should also help, as does ensuring you are strict with power on and power off times every day.
_Just to be clear I'm not referring specifically to this podcast_
I've been out of the 'hobby' for a number of years now so I'm really enjoying these podcasts. No bs and unnecessary filler. I've always been an advocate of animal welfare and rights, even getting myself into some less than ideal situations in my youth involving rescuing various animals, hunt saboteuring etc. But a lot of the attitudes I'm noticing now online seem to be a huge amount of sanctimonious virtue signalling, one-upmanship and flexing. Someone has set up a 2' vivarium for two Mourning Geckos. Then someone comes along who has set up a 4' bioactive viv for a pair of Mourning Geckos. Next person comes along, asserts a 5' viv is the minimum for one, shames everyone keeping two in a 18"x24" viv and then proudly announces they have an entire spare room devoted to one. Obviously I'm exaggerating but where do we draw the line?
Francis himself mentioned Snakes in their wild environment, climbing high walls and eating bats. So again, should the minimum to keep them in captivity include a 15' tall vivarium and a diet of bats and wild birds? Or should we just not keep them at all? Technically that would be better for the animals, right? I get that reptiles have had a real bad time of things since probably the early 80's but what I've noticed seems to be an almost over compensation for that.
It's awesome that people are advocating proper husbandry and animal welfare, but it seems to have gone the other direction. I can say it's putting me off getting back into keeping reptiles and I still have some knowledge and experience, although it may be dated. Someone totally new isn't going to stand a chance.
Just to reiterate, I'm not suggesting any animal should be kept with minimum care, reptile or otherwise!
I certainly understand your point!
We discussed this topic in this episode here: ruclips.net/video/RYoIxzy_e5M/видео.htmlsi=Cg4MXenJLP49RBqC
@@AnimalsatHomePodcast I'll check it out, thank you! :)
I have only just seen this so sorry for the late reply but I will make a few comments as it is a topic I have seen posed any number of times in response to the idea of improving the way we as a hobby keep these animals.
First of all, it is important to know I don't believe people need to justify keeping pets. I do however believe that sometimes they need to justify HOW they keep them.
On the question 'should the minimum to keep them in captivity include a 15' tall vivarium and a diet of bats and wild birds? Or should we just not keep them at all? Technically that would be better for the animals, right?' My answer would be - no. (But if you CAN, that would be awesome). BUT learning about their habits certainly should factor in how you house them - do they climb? OK, maybe I will increase the height of their enclosure from 45cm to 90cm. Will they eat birds? Cool, I can work day old chicks and quail chicks into their diet to vary it. Very easy fix, absolutely no need to provide a 15' wall.
After all, learning about these animals is what the hobby is all about isn't it? A good example - I keep several different species of Psammophis (sand snakes). Which, having chased them around North Africa in my child hood, I assumed were strictly terrestrial and never really provided much of any height - 45-60cm seemed enough. A few years back I got a few new specimens and the only viv I had available to quarantine them in was a 90x90cm enclosure full of branches rather than the usual longer, lower enclosures I used for that genus. And to my surprise the Psammophis spent almost all their time up in the branches watching their surroundings. Further study made me realise these snakes climb up into low bushes or fence posts and watch for prey and predators from there. So now I make sure I give all my Psammophis an extra foot or two of height. It does not need to be a tree, but three feet rather than two feet is good!
To quote Gordon Burghardt: captivity is deprivation. HOWEVER the assumption that captivity can never fully replicate 'the wild' is not a reason to give up trying to improve things entirely. I believe any good, thoughtful keeper will wrestle with the question 'should I be doing this?' at one point or other. We know that there are plenty of improvements we can make that positively affect our pets in various ways, and we know there are things that negatively affect them. The way I see it, there are three possible directions we can go:
1. Decide that you are not happy with the level of care you can provide and stop keeping altogether.
2. Decide to improve your keeping.
3. Decide to put your fingers in your ears and continue as you are.
Me personally, I am very much an advocate for option 2. My aim is to provide my pets as good a captive environment as possible within my means. For me, that means at the very least:
i. an enclosure no less than the length of the snake.
ii. Several types of overhead bulb (heater to provide IR-a, light to provide UVB and if possible one more as well for 'full spectrum').
iii. Seasonal and daily cycling appropriate to the species.
iv. Environment and habitat appropriate to the species, but at the very least the opportunity to get its whole body off the ground, burrow, and a choice of hides.
v. Choice of humidity.
vi. Thermal gradient appropriate to the species
vii. Prey appropriate to the species, as varied as I can make it, and fed at a healthy rate (i.e. not overfed or underfed).
viii. Appropriate biosecurity.
All that sounds super complicated. It isn't in the least. And it is implicitly tied to choosing a suitable pet, and a suitable number of pets, to suit your means. It is a sad fact that a lot of people would rather buy another pet than spend that money to provide better care to a snake they already have. Much more tempting to buy that cute hatchling from the pet shop than the £40 UVB rig! I think a big part of the issue is the 'gotta catch 'em all' Pokemon mentality where people feel the need to collect more and more animals but cannot provide IDEALISED rather than MINIMUM standard care to the animals they have. My opinion - and it is just that, an opinion - is that money is better spent first improving existing care than purchasing new animals... and that the animals one DOES keep should be species one can provide great care for - I say that as somebody with a very large collection of very small reptiles!
However I do also believe that a WELL KEPT reptile in captivity, while missing out factors from a wild environment, also benefits as an individual from being in captivity. Regular feeding, safe environment, protection from extremes of weather, protection from parasites and competition and predation, protection from being beaten to death with a stick or squashed on a road. In short, it is a 'safe' life and at this point in my career, with multiple animals well into their thirties and even more in their late twenties, it seems to me that a lot of my snakes seem to at least be matching if not exceeding wild lifespans (we do not have much reliable wild data on snake lifespans but one group we DO is rat snakes, which seem to last 20-30 years in the wild... my rat snakes are lasting at least that long in captivity so I believe I am discharging my duty as a pet owner to get them there.
There is of course a trade-off here. No, you probably won't be able to offer the full scope of enrichment that a wild environment does... but you also offer protection from the more dangerous aspects of living in the wild and I believe this balances out nicely. So I have never personally felt that keeping reptiles is 'wrong' although I do feel certain WAYS of keeping them are wrong...
As to the 'sanctimonious virtue signalling, one-upmanship and flexing' - that is human nature and it happens with all hobbies. Most people treat a hobby as a hobby, but a small percentage feel the need to excel, to be the best, to show off the extreme, to display their greatness on Facebook, RUclips, social media. Let them. I know people that house their snakes in huge elaborate planted enclosures far more complex and larger than mine. Personally, seeing such achievements always impresses and inspires me; it certainly does not make me doubt my own keeping seeing people doing things I cannot. I find seeing and learning from better keepers than me invigorating, not intimidating. I CERTAINLY and ABSOLUTELY prefer that to witnessing the absolute travesty some keepers feel comfortable enacting upon their pets and I certainly think that a zeitgeist where people are showing off bigger and better enclosures is preferable to one where people treat the animals like non-living things. :)
I did make another long comment on the video link that Dillon appended above also, which further elaborates my mindset on 'how good is good enough?'
Kindest regards,
Francis
Would love to network with Francis if he’s up for just chatting reptiles sometime
Oh he is always up for chatting! You'll have to find him on FB, he's pretty great about getting back to people
Interesting podcast. One thing that did seem hypocritical was Francis's dig at Brian Barczyk. Yes we all know about his rack'em and stack'em BHB business, but since opening his reptarium he's gone the other way, which some fantastic large, well furnished enclosures with all the UV and IR lamps. If he really wanted to have a dig at the commercial breeders, or even those that proclaim to be pet owners that cram royals into tubs then there are plenty of others he could have used.
One thing I do agree with is viv size.... all my Royal pythons are in vivs that are either 100cm x 40cm x 35cm (LxWxH) or 120cm x 35cm x 40cm (L x W x H). Back in the late 1990's it was often quoted that the distance between diagonally opposing corners (ie bottom front left to top back right) should be the same as the snake, or minimum 75% it's length.
Greate video, looking forward to the next
Barczyk still has thousands of animals in that rack style, and still uploads videos of it (4 days ago to be exact). Just because he has the new zoo, I don't believe he is above criticism at all. It was Dillon that named Barczyk, Francis kept quiet lol. Im more than happy to back Dillon and call out a number of em for their bullshit personally, but Francis chose to not even mention any names.
@@ReptilesandResearch I stand corrected... I was sure Francis made reference to him, but can't be bothered to spend two hours listening to this again just to prove a point. I'm not a fan of Barczyk, but you have to agree that his anaconda enclosure goes that extra mile.
@@MalcolmCrabbe The anaconda enclosure i like
@@ReptilesandResearch doesn't offer the snake much in terms of privacy though. Its a decent size and has a good sized pool but it's open on all sides and relatively sparsely furnished. I don't know if it affects that particular snake but it doesn't have many hides if any.
Admittedly I've not watched it for quite a while so this might have changed.
@@pauldavenport6466 I havnt seen it in ages, i just saw it when it was first made
I rather keep my senior leopard gecko in a 4x2x2 bioactive enclosure with halogen bulb, uvb and visible light than tossing him a minimalistic rack system!
Exactly!