Rubber vs Metal Saxophone Mouthpiece? Nigel asks Theo Wanne
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- Опубликовано: 15 июл 2024
- Need help choosing between a metal vs a rubber saxophone mouthpiece? I asked Theo Wanne for his advice - you might be amazed by the answer!
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IN THIS VIDEO:
Rubber vs Metal.
It's a question I'm often asked by Sax School members. And I can understand why - it's very difficult to choose when you want to update your setup.
This week I had a chat with Theo Wanne who is widely regarded as a world expert in saxophone mouthpiece design to ask his advice on this.
Is hard rubber or metal better for my sax mouthpiece?
In this lesson Theo explains the difference between different saxophone mouthpiece materials and how it affects your sound when playing. The answer may not be what you expect.
Understanding the differences will help you a lot when it comes to choosing the right sax mouthpiece for you.
How do I choose the right mouthpiece for me?
Also in our chat, I asked Theo about the mouthpiece chamber and how this affects your sound. Theo had a great explanation for this which makes choosing the appropriate sax mouthpiece for the sound and style you are looking for, much easier.
Should I change my saxophone mouthpiece?
At the end of our conversation, we discuss how you can tell if your saxophone mouthpiece is the right choice for you. It's easy really, does your mouthpiece make sax playing fun and easy? Do you get excited by the sound coming from your sax. Check out what Theo has to say on this topic to see if you're on the right track.
Presented by Nigel McGill
SAX SCHOOL
www.mcgillmusic.com
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This is probably THE MOST informative mouthpiece interview I've heard. I like that Theo isn't pushing one or another but actually educating. The only thing that wasn't covered in your two video interviews, unless I missed it, was chamber shape: round, square or horseshoe and the effect of those.
Thank you!
PS - I hove both hard rubber and metal. I prefer the mouth feel of the hard rubber, partially because the bite plate on the metal is so unforgivingly hard as well. Suppose I'll try a mouthpiece patch on the metal. Also, having started on clarinet the hard rubber feels more "normal." I like the durability of the metal facing however.
Thanks Brian. Glad you enjoyed the video. Good suggestion about covering chamber shapes. Perhaps a topic for a future video!
Great thank you, it can be so intimidating at first, but Theo’s explications and technical expertise is so helpful. When you are learning it is a very daunting path, any help encouragement or advice is always appreciated .
Very helpful Nigel, explained the technical stuff nicely, thanks to both you and Theo👍
Loved this video.
All you need to know on HR vs. Metal. Theo is the guy to go to. The part I liked the most is that Theo is not advertising his products anywhere!! Many respects to that!
As for my preferences on Tenor metal does the job for me, alto and soprano is Hard Rubber. It is more convenient for me because of the volume in my mouth.
I mostly play Tenor and Alto on gigs and with this combination even doubling on those two helps my embochure to adapt much faster.
Also Love Theos' mouthpieces. All three of my saxes are Theo Wanne Gaia. Best mouthpieces out there. Outplays even a Florida!! (Tried it and it does that)
Great job both of you, I always enjoy your conversations!!
This is a question I have had for a long while - I use a Berg Larsen (metal) on tenor and a Meyer (metal) on alto. I also play flute, trumpet, bass, keyboard, ukulele, guitar, mandolin and some percussion, so this has been a great interview for me. I just learned today that Grover Washington, at one time, used the Larsen on tenor and Meyer on alto.
What a great informative video! I have Durga on Tenor and I just bought the same for the Alto 'cause it's so good! Theo's MP's are the best!
I found the video informative. Thank you for sharing this interview. I am a tenor saxophone student of 8 months and I am currently playing a Theo Wanne Gaia 3 hard rubber with a 7* tip. I just purchased it last week to replace the Yamaha 4C that came with the horn. Still getting used to the wider tip opening, but enjoying practicing so far and looking forward to getting the most out of it. Cheers!
I hate that Yamaha 4C thing. I'd start beginners with Selmer C*- anything but the 4C
Loved the tips in this clip Nigel, very clear explanations and taken with the other clip with Theo it covers the topic of choosing mouthpieces very well. I am still playing on the standard Yamaha 4C mouthpiece that came with my sax and am currently looking to upgrade.
Cheers Dazza. Glad you enjoyed these videos. I think Theo makes it much easier to understand what’s going on inside a mouthpiece!
I used metal mouthpieces on tenor for many years getting a bright tone. A few months back I switched to a large chamber hard rubber Morgan Excalibur. The Morgan felt more comfortable and had a more full and warmer tone that I was looking for. Great interview!
I agree with Brian Billings - the MOST informative interview, I absolutely know what to look for when I purchase a new mouthpiece which will be soon :)
Cool. Don’t forget to use the discount coupon in the description!
We need Theo to give his take on ligs too. My screws need to be on top and away from Reed. I've split reed's by having screws on reed.
Thank you for this video! Great to hear straight from Theo about his educated take on mouthpieces. I personally play on the vintage Brilhart Level-Aire that have that flat bill design that I’ve only ever seen in those particular mouthpieces. I found one for my alto, tenor, and baritone horns. Have you had any experience with these odd pieces?
I went with a Theo Wanne Slant Sig 7* based on your last mouthpiece video and some additional research, and I’ve absolutely loved it. For me, it’s been extremely versatile and is very easy to play.
Brilliant. Great to hear you are enjoying the Slant Sig Sam.
I play metal pieces. Used to be all about the hard rubbers, then I tried the metal Durga for alto and got hooked. Love the feel and buzz I get from it at loud volumes. This is a bit shallow, but I also just really like the look and convenience of metal mouthpieces. But, as you and Theo say, it really all boils down to comfort.
Great videos! I really love your content
Cheers, thanks Mason. The Durga is a beast.
Loved the video BUT when I was trying out mouthpieces recently I was given a Jody Jazz Giant 7* to try. This as you probably know is made from aluminium and this is the one that got me excited. I often play in a small wind band and frequently am the only tenor sax. The Giant MP lets me punch above my weight and ensure tenor saxes are accounted for.
Note my Tenor is Trevor James SR and I previously used a metal Yanagisawa 7!
Interesting John. I haven’t tried the Giant. Glad it worked well for you.
Thank you very much for this informative video, as you have always done. I have often heard of the term "hard rubber". I thought it might be the "baker-lite" that was the very common material for pot handles and even machines. I am no expert on sax, nor am I a metallurgical expert. However, I do believe that the reason a hard rubber mouthpiece gives a "darker" sound because some of the vibrations got absorbed by the comparatively softer synthetic one, while the metallic one wouldn't absorb much of the vibrations because of the density of metal. Perhaps that also explained why an aluminium mouthpiece didn't rate for it is less dense than brass.
Another difference between Metal and HR is that with Metal we hear the spittle on the reed better, adding "sizzle" to the sound.
Excellent discussion!!! 🚀
Cheers!
I started on hard rubber in elementary school, and in 8th grade a local sax player gave me a (metal) Dukoff D9, but I could never get it to work. One day I decided to really give it a go and got pretty decent with it. I remember bringing it to school and playing during practice and the director stopped the band after I came in and said, "ARE YOU PLAYING ON A METAL MOUTHPIECE?!" I was like, "Yeah..."
He just shook his head and said, "You're standing out a bit." I just smiled :)
I'm 27 now and it's all I use. I can't find a good ligature though...
I play an Otto link stm 9*. It gives a huge sound, but i can blend in with a big band section as vell. I play allot of funk gigs, and classical gigs, and i USE the same mouthpiece. I love IT!!
That’s brilliant Lars. The Link STM is a great all rounder. I guess that’s why they have been popular for so long. My main issue with them though has been inconsistency, mouthpiece to mouthpiece. But, when you find one that works for you, they are great.
Love Theo Wanne mouthpieces
Theo Wanne. Very knowledgeable guy 👍👍
I understand your point but put a player on a metal and then a hard rubber most of the time they will not sound the same because the mouthpieces are designed differently so why not use multiple set up for what the music requires
That is one approach, but using multiple mouthpieces means you really need to also dedicate practice time to each mouthpiece too. I guess it depends what works for you.
I have not tried a metal mouthpiece yet. When I purchased my yts-26 it came with a plastic mouthpiece. After several months of learning to play I found out a part of my problem was the mouthpiece. I switched to a hard rubber and it made a huge difference for me, especially on the low end. I will wait a little longer on trying a metal until I am playing well enough for it to make a difference in my mind. Mouthpieces are expensive and it could be costly to experiment with all of the different variations.
It is a minefield George. I think always the best option is to find a friendly music shop with a good selection of mouthpieces so you can take your time trying them out before committing to the purchase.
I play only HR mpc on alto because of it’s higher pitch, feeling metal would make my sound too bright. On tenor I play both, mainly Theo’s HR Slant Sig 2 7* and Retro Revival NY 7* metal. Very clear explanation about chamber sizes based on the bore of the mpc. Thanks Nigel, very informative 👍🏼😉
Cheers Thierry, glad you found it helpful. Love that slant sig on tenor!
McGill Music Sax School I love it too. Almost fell for a Phil Tone and then I watched your review.
Both are necessary in your case. If you're playing long performance- get a hr mpc. But for shorter performance- (single solo) chose metal. My intonation is easier to hold true tones by these fundamentals.
So just to make sure, metal will be bueno for marching?
Hi Nigel, thanks for interview. When I played the tenor, I used an Otto Link, metal 7*. Unfortunately I could not longer play the tenor, so I started to play a soprano saxofoon. I started on an hard rubber Otto Link. I liked the sound, but I could not fine a good reed, it costed al lot of energy to blow. So I searched for another mouthpiece. I’ve tried many, and found the Drake SOS and Theo Wanne Gaia very pleasant to blow (free and round). In the end tje gaia was for me the best option, size 7. It was a bit more powerfull. I’m very happy.
Great to hear that. I like the Gaia too.
Nigel, did you compare the Gaia I en II?
It would be nice if there was also a metal Gaia for soprano..
I play the original Durga 9 Vintified metal. I love it.
Nice combo!
When I started on tenor I knew I wanted to play jazz. With this in mind I wanted to try a metal mouthpiece. I got one and tried it out. What I pound is that it was too bright for the kind of section playing I was doing. I got a hard rubber mouthpiece and that better fit my needs. I still use my metal mouthpiece for when I need to be bright and have lots of projection.
That’s interesting Tim. You’ve got two options there. Sometimes you don’t know how a mouthpiece will work for you sound wise until you play it for a while.
I have been playing sax over 40 years. Hard rubber pieces I need to replace after about 6 years, due to the gradual deterioration. Do not use anything but mild soap and water to clean your HR.
I have 7 metal and 5 plastic
Theo Wanne (3) and Judy Jazz (3) and Yanawisagua 1 and Otto link 1 All this are metal love them all
Wow Fernando, that’s quite a collection!
Interesting and informative. I’m a beginner at 73. I have a YTS62, and find my best sound comes from either a metal link STM 6* or a HR Morgan jazz mml 7. I can hear very little difference between the two. But the difference from Yamaha 5 custom HR , the horn came with is amazing. The 5cm is very stuffy and while low notes are easy, the high end is choked and altissimo impossible for me. I also have a Larry Teal , a Runyon 7, and a Rousseau 7jdx, which, for me, do not generate a sound I enjoy.
Theo stated that the very high quality hard rubber mouthpieces have a low carbon content, and I’m wondering if this is why some Hr mps, especially the vintage ones seem to discolour more quickly than others.
Good question Gary. I was surprised about the makeup of the rubber too. I know from previous conversations with Theo that he has done a lot of research on this topic. Interesting stuff.
After listening to you guys about MP 's .I have a greater understanding now thanks but can you tell me if a bigger baffle would take more puff than a smaller baffle? ?
Hope you can advise
I was playing a B&S 210 metal mouthpiece, which I got with my (used) Amati alto sax, but I was unable to adjust it to get the octaves in tune with each other. I tried a Rico Royal C7 and then a few other plastic (I found out by trial and error what Theo says in this clip about plastic is right on) and hard rubber mouthpieces until I got an Otto Link Tone Edge 7 (hr), which gives me the dynamics I was looking for (-- for under $100 :)).
That’s an interesting mouthpiece journey Rob. The rubber Link is a good solid mouthpiece. I’m glad you are enjoying it.
w.o.w.!!!!!! i wish i could listen to this 20 years ago!
A tip: watch movies on flixzone. I've been using them for watching lots of of movies during the lockdown.
@Hugh Amari Yup, have been using flixzone for since november myself =)
@Hugh Amari yup, been using Flixzone for since november myself :D
So if I play on a Jody Jazz HR Alto 6*, what Tenor mouthpiece should I get and should I get the same Jody Jazz mouthpiece? I really like the Jody Jazz HR I have for Alto but I personally feel like the metal mouthpieces resonate better and sound more “bright” or have that ring to it so I’m kinda conflicted. And I can’t go into the shop near me and try mouthpieces because of COVID so unfortunately I’m gonna have to buy and try ones online
Hi I'm a new subscriber! I learnt alot from this video. I am a beginner sort of, and wanted a decent mouthpiece and stumbled across this video and just purchased a metal mouthpiece on reverb.com It wasn't too expensive either. Mint condition for $80.
Same here, all my mouthpieces are big chamber.
I'm playing with a Theo Wanne mindi abair custom metal. I have also the Durga III metal, but I prefer the mindi. I've tried a lot of MPCs, and prefer the metal ones..it looks like they are better in tuning than the rubber ones. Does it make sense for you?
Hey Charles, it really only matters that it makes sense “to you”. If you like the Mindi piece then go for it.
Nice video..
Thanks.
I like metal and rubber pieces equally on tenor. He’s right, aluminum is horrible
Playing on a good hard rubber mouthpiece is like slipping on your favorite pair of broken-in sneakers that you do everything in. A good metal mouthpiece feels more to me like putting on oxfords or even a pair of ski boots--functional, maybe high performance, but not what I want to walk around in all day. Pardon me if I'm putting my foot in my mouth...
Love the analogy!
"Ting".....the sound of a bell ringing with nice tight harmonics. "Gong"....the sound of spread harmonics.
One thing that occurred to me is that the the qualities of hard rubber might be more acceptable to those seeking a darker sound, since the fuzziness is more pronounced in the upper harmonics. I never cared for the sounds that came out of Jumbo Javas and maybe that's why. Whatever. I play metal Links for a dark sound.
Hi Nigel, I’m a fairly young sax player and I’ve been playing alto for 3 years. I’ve finally upgraded from a Yamaha 5c plastic mouthpiece to a Meyer 5m hard rubber mouthpiece. The weird thing is, is that when I try to play I squeak and can hardly take in as much mouthpiece as I usually do. I don’t know if it’s my fault or if I need a reed with less strength or if the mouthpiece just needs some getting used to. If you could maybe give me an explanation it would be much appreciated.
Hi Dylan. Good question. I would start with a softer Reed and spend some time working on tone to get used to the Meyer. You may find you need to keep your throat and mouth more open with the new mouthpiece. Hope that helps.
McGill Music Sax School what strength reed would you recommend? I’ve been using 3.5 reeds for a while so should I go down to a 3 or a 2.5?
Dylan, it could be your Meyer, which is an entry-level rubber mouthpiece; most likely the table is not flat, and/or facing inconsistent, so when you blow the air, the reed vibrates oddly and leaks air somewhere. You hear overblowing sounds (squeaking). Because to a leaking mouthpiece that seals poorly, even your usual blow is an overblow. The uneven table and inconsistent facing is a COMMON problem in MANY rubber mouthpieces in that price range, but which are advertised as UPGRADES to your very basic mouthpiece. Beware of those "upgrades"! Considering all, those "upgrades" are not worth the trouble; to get a copy that seals well (unless you wish to hand-finish them yourself), you must try a dozen of them! Many people recommend that (trying many copies and choosing a good one), but I think it is a totally wrong suggestion and a waste of time. Rather, get a proper, manually checked mouthpiece like Theo Wanne's, which you can then play for decades.
I am going to start playing again, I miss the soul of the sax.
Nigel, I apologise for asking, but do you play the clarinet?????
Sure, I play clarinet and flute too.
Be carful people, dont make my mistakes. Do not leave your saxophone at someones place EVER. he was jealous of my abilities and messed with the surface of my Aotolink 6star. The mouthpiece cost me over 500 Australian dollars and 2 years after i finally realied malicious activities had happened. I also have massive scratch marks on two of my saxophones.
Keep your instuments where you can see them at all times.
Currently playing on an alto Meyer 6M and Beechler Custom Bellite #7 (Metal). The problem is that there aren’t shops who carry a wide variety where you can bring your horn in and play through them all. Obviously hygiene is one of the main issues for this and I’m not sure there is an effective way to address this.
The other thing is that music shops featuring professional grade brass and woodwind components are all but dead and gone.
Everyone plays guitar, bass, drums and keys. Sax and Jazz are not as vibrant as they once were. People play with noises and loops on computers and this is mistakenly considered “music”.
Pray for a Renaissance.
It’s definitely harder to find good music shops with a decent range if you don’t live near a major city. I’m not sure this is going to change back unfortunately. Still, I remember years ago in Australia having to pay in advance and order mouthpieces from the USA that took 3 months to arrive. At least shipping is faster these days.