If you see an fighter pilot ace with 5 kills, he's in a spitfire. If he has 20 kills, he's in a Mustang. If he has hundred's of kill's he's flying for the Luftwaffe. Both Mustang and Spitfire's are beautiful aircraft though. I've got both in 1/32 scale model kits on the shelf.
The Navy and Marines used a light underside to resemble the sky and the tops were a dark blue for the ocean. The 24 Liberator was a tan color. Some models of the 17 were olive or a dark green color. We also had the P61 Black Widow which was black and our only nighttime fighter.
My father was a P-51 pilot. He retired in '65, when I was 3, but we'd go to air shows and he'd chat up the pilots, knew one of them, and I'd get to sit it the cockpits and stand on the wings. Felt like hot stuff, I'll tell you. And to feel those motors up close, as a little guy, took my breath away, for several breaths.
I love the Spitfire even when the Griffon engine was installed in it. I find that the Merlin gave the Spitfire it’s most pleasing sound. Always a Spitfire fan.
@@mudpie95 If one is to believe all of these claims, I would want to examine each claim and see how many matched RAF Spitfire losses before taking it as being true.
Oh dear. Battle of Britain claims July 10th 1 Spitfire damaged, not shot down. July 14th 1 Hurricane. No RAF losses on the day. 2 down and only half way through July.
I see there is the usual comments below about range, but please bear in mind the Spitfire was designed to protect UK from foreign bombers and had adequate range for that task. To ease production, which was now needed to be devoted to bombers, the RAF went to the US for a similar aircraft to the Spitfire and got the Mustang. At first the US saw no potential in the Mustang, but it was only when their bomber losses became unsustainable there turned to the Mustang and added more petrol tanks to give them the range needed to accompany bombers to target. Because the RAF concentrated on night bombing they saw no need for fighter protection; you can question that policy. However the Spitfire could go to Berlin, and did regularly. When the Spitfire role was changed to interdiction, its range was increased. Arguing one was better than the other is meaningless. They, most of the time performed different roles; THEY COMPLIMENTED EACH OTHER.
Laurie When the beggar Brits came to the USA they were looking for the Curtis P40 as they considered it the Best AVAILABLE fighter AT THAT TIME !!!! Curtis was booked and busy with USAAF orders and the beggar Brits went to North American asking them to build the P40 for them. Dutch Kindelberger, NAA President REFUSED to build anothers obsolete plane and OFFERED the Brits a design he had been working on and doing the research on. Why North American was able to deliver a new MODERN fighter in 112 days from day of signing the contract !!!! Brits took what was offered and available and NAA produced the fastest fighter AT THAT TIME of INTRODUCTION, @ 400 MPH !!! Remembering the shitfire Mk V could only muster 368 MPH at half the altitude. see RAF Mustangs here on You Tube to see what the Brits had to say about their NEW FAST, Modern fighter !!! Also the Mustang had over twice the internal fuel capacity and able to lift twice the bomb load of the Mk V shitfire !!! Facts, not lies, or Hype or British BULLSHIT !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 happy to see you still need to be rude about us Brits. It Tells me we are still a major force to be reckoned with. I take issue with the beggar bit. As I understand we were happy to, and did pay, (in fact we only payed pour war debt off around 2010.) Lend lease was not our preferred option that came from Congress, The Spitfire could have carried the same amount of fuel as the Mustang. Its the was the powers that be at the top of the RAF who appear to blocked the design because that thought it would interfere with its fighter role. Its unfair to compare the MKV to the Mustang, it didn't have the two stage compressor, and had been superseded by the MKIX which did and was around be fore the Mustang so its is a fairer comparison. But thankyou for a great airplane, it played a significant part in our victory.
@@gregparker9272 He can't help being a nasty, spiteful little bastard - he just doesn't know any better. He hates everyone, including his fellow Americans.
Thank you for not spoiling it with crappy music. Just love listening to the glorious sound of those engines. But for me the Spitfire is my favourite, the shape is just great.
That is true, they had to spend 500 billion USD to develop the F-35. Invisible to targeting radar, a suite of electronics totaling several thousand watts of radar jamming backed up by several supercomputers that detect all targeting radars, produce counter signals, and then issue a non repeating random sequences produce jamming radar frequencies, flies above mach 1.2 without afterburners attaining supercruise(Limited to 150 miles because the radar absorbent might burn off) The F-35 can also provide its data processing to a flock of F-16s or F-15's. StarSwarm I like the old cars a lot better too. For one thing, just as the mandolin is the percussion instrument in Bluegrass music, so a piston engine is a series of explosions modulated by two stage turbos coming to our ears in a throaty powerful rumble of 3,000 rpm. So whiny jet engines possesses non of the music our ears crave. StarSwarm I suggest, if you ever become an F-35 pilot, purchase a pair of rose colored glasses and put a car stereo in your fighter jet, and pop in an 8 track that plays the sounds of early Detroit-ville.
Actully no, its very easy to belive they are 75YO, the newer planes look like garbage, so if it is nice looking its usually alot older… an easy rule of thumb for us to follow… ;)
Liberty and freedom for whom exactly? More than half of Europe got occupied for 70 years by a regime far worse than nazism... And what odds? The Luftwaffe didn't exist in 1944 because it got swarmed. Don't make me laugh.
@@Shadowhunterbg Liberty from the Nazi's, only half of Germany was occupied by Russia, most of Europe was free which was not the case when the Nazi's took over and stole all they could from every occupied country leaving the population starving like Holland where the RAF was dropping food while Germany was still in control. It took many years for these countries to recover.
@@Shadowhunterbg Only in your tiny brain, the main thing was to rid the world of the very evil Nazi's, we did that and saved all the occupied countries from starvation, what happened afterwards in some countries was not our doing. Maybe if USA had been less weak things would have been better but that is the way it was, no one wanted to live life under the oppressive murdering Nazi's.
@@patthewoodboy Different eras; different purposes. But Mustang was superior in many performance categories. P51s ensured bomber protection and even successfully combatted 262s. Sealed the deal in two theaters of war. Pinnacle of piston technology (along with F4U).
@@c2jones Hmmn.... the Spit' xviii was faster and more powerful than the P51D the Griffon putting out just under 2400hp as opposed to the P51D's packard Merlin's just under 1700hp . So hardly "vastly superior in every performance category." as you suggest, that aside they were originally designed years apart and for differing roles the Spit' being developed as an interceptor and Mustang as an escort .
When I was younger, I worked with a fellow who, in his seventies, was more fit than his grown kids. In WW2, he had been a P-51 candidate in one of several experimental 'rush' training programs. Taxiing deaths, and a glut of pilots, cancelled the programs. He was actually relieved to now be a combat engineer going into D-Day--but he never lost his love for that Merlin sound. We worked near the Naval Test Pilot School, which contracted a Mustang to broaden the test pilot candidate's experience. Unbelievably, my friend and I were the only ones in the building who knew that Merlin note. Whenever that Mustang was in the area, I would run to the parking lot--where he would already be standing in complete peace. As a side note, during our friendship, he received a letter complaining that the Garand he turned in was the wrong serial number. I'll paraphrase his reply: I had a bit of trouble swimming in the Channel and managed to misplace mine. When I met a fellow who didn't need his anymore, I borrowed it. The Government reply: sorry; we won't bother you anymore.
One of the best vids of aircraft I have seen. No talking, no music, just great visuals and beautiful sound from two spectacular aircraft! Well done and thanks!!!!
The Whistle Wine... is that due 2 the air pick up just at the back of the wing under the fuselage ? Yes its a real neat sound. Any answers on this would be appreciated. Thx
Thank for this. These two fighters always fascinated me as much in terms of their difference of performance as anything else. Both were significant and highly successful aeroplanes.
It’s interesting how these worked together in the European theater. Spitfires would escort the bomber formations across the channel where they would be picked up by P-38s and P-47s in France, which would escort them close to the German border. From there, the P-51 Mustangs would take over and escort them to the target. Kind of a bad ass relay race lol.
Thank you to all the allied fighters of WW2 and their pilots.We would not have won that terrible war without them, the men and women who fought on the ground and the American and British navy.
The RAF in particular owes much to the Polish pilots whom hated the luftwaffe and Germany twice as much as the Brits did. They had severe bloodlust and fought as hard as anyyone in Ww2
I am fortunate enough to live near the Battle of Britain memorial... Almost everyday in summer we get to here sound of Merlin's roar... Spine-tingling...
@@Ash_Hudson The Battle of Britain Memorial is at Capel- le- Ferne near Folkestone, Kent, however The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight is based at RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire
We live in Detling. Kent. I couldn't tell you the difference between the griffon or the Merlin. But like you say when I hear that turbine I'm running outside trying to take photos.
i live not too far from Duxford and do exactly the same thing! Amazing machines! In the words of Gen Chuck Yeager, "When i think of flying, I think of Fighting; and those are some fighting aircraft" (paraphrase from 1997)
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Spitfires were powered by Merlin engines, some variants Griffons. P51s were licensed Packard engines of a Merlin 66 (P51D). So they had Merlin engines. The version that fought in the Battle of Britain had a Merlin engine.
The Harrier Jumpin' Bean and the FA18 Hornet are 20th Century too. Personally, I've seen some prettier Mountain Bikes. And french nylons completely roast an airplane for best 20th Cent thing. Kajillions of preverts can't be wrong.
The shrill whine of those supercharged engines is spine tingling. Seeing those simulated dog fights giving those airframes a gentle stretch is great too.
Actually I am an absolute fan of german aircraft, but the Spitfire will always keep a special place in my heart - for me it was one of the best planes of WW2
@@kenz5469 ... which didn't come close to the Spitfire because many dogefights were at higher altitudes where the P 51 had a lot of problems to fight the Bf 109 and Fw 190 D while the Spitfire could keep up - I really don't want to turn this into a discussion but the P 51 had just a high top speed at sea level and a decent high speed turn rate - In a 1 vs 1 against a 190 or 109 (after the G 6) with equal energy states the P 51 would stand most likely no chance - It can just dive away and then outrun the Bf 109 - against the 190 even this would be hard... the P 51 has simply not the engine Power and low speed fighting capabilities to fight any of these Planes - It can just fire some rounds and then run - and Plane could've done that and succeed with the same amount of planes as the US Air Force had, actually the P 51 was pretty bad against planes from 1944/45 while the Spitfire Mk XIV could keep up thanks to the Griffon engine, decent turn charakteristics and very good energy fight capabilities - even the top speed was decent (717 km/h at 7000m) the P 51 was good at 1943 but 1944 and 45 the german fighters were superior- and even at 1943 the Spitfire Mk XIV outclassed the P 51 - It just had not the range to escort bombers into germany.
@@bluefox9436 Those were the early P-51's. In 1944, the updated engine version ones were more than capable, especially the long range versions...could stay in the air much longer.
@@kenz5469 the "updated engine" still just provided 1600 - 1700 hp - 150 octane fuel pushed it at ca. 1800 but that is still not enough to keep up with the 2000 hp engines and the lighter airframe of the Bf 109 K4/ Spitfire Mk XIV and Fw 190 - and I didn't include 150 octane fuel for the Spitfire, the Fw 190 had actually even with the D9 version 2100 hp and the K4 had just half the weight of the P 51 and all the other benefits of the 109 - It even outran the P 51 at 6K - It doesn't matter if we use the P 51 D5, D20 or D30 - all can't do mutch against the other nations top planes because the P 51 was more quantity than quality
2 beautiful aircraft, both absolute masterpieces of design. Often compared, though often unfairly I feel, without taking into account the different philosophies behind their designs. The Spitfire was built in answer the the bomber doctrine of the 1930’s as a defensive weapon, a high speed interceptor if you will. A stunningly beautiful and very effective aircraft with a basic design that allowed it to be upgraded throughout the war. The Mustang’s story is of an extraordinary design completed in record time that was turned into a war-changer building on lessons learned from the early years of the war. Again a gorgeous plane, with the range to both protect the daylight bombing raids in Europe and make an impact in the further flung battlefields of the Asia-Pacific. They were generationally different designs but most importantly beautiful and iconic aircraft flown by extraordinarily brave pilots. Love them both.
@@wilburfinnigan2142 The Packard was a copy and certainly not improved, it was paid for by Rolls Royce and used in the Spitfire Mk XVI, a squadron when supplied with Mk XVI's to replace their old Spitfires, the squadron leader kept his old Spitfire which was faster and better.
People arguing over two planes neither of which would have existed without the British. The Spitfire and the Mustang the latter coming about because the British had issued a requirement for it. It also flew around with the Merlin engine in it which gave it a huge performance boost. Both great planes and if anyone wants to offer me a flight in either, I would grab it.
NAA Kindelberger requested installation plans and documents for the Merlin XX in March 1941 as he was already fed up with Allison's lack of support and lame attempt to bolt on an aux supercharger to the V-1710 . GM therefore interfered with NAA attempts to sell the Mustang to the USAAF.
Please everyone, calm down with all the arguing over the Spit' and the 'Stang. They are both brilliant and beautiful birds in their own regards, and were *designed for different purposes* originally. Please keep that in mind when comparing the two. And let's be honest (myself included) - we all have slight biases depending on our nationality... _ESPECIALLY BETWEEN BRITS AND YANKS_ !
And you didn't mention that the Griffon engine rotated in the opposite direction to the Merlin; clockwise from the front view. This meant that opposite rudder, and a good deal more of it, because of the extra power, had to be used in Griffon-powered Spitfires during take-off. This could catch out a pilot, leading to an accident.
My grandfather volunteered for the RAF and flew a Spitfire, and then the USAAF scooped him up and put him in a Mustang for the rest of the war. He said the Spitfire was like a sports coupe and the Mustang was like a Cadillac, and that it would climb ‘like a homesick angel’.
@@wilburfinnigan2142 From a USAAF pilot who flew both Afterr the Spitfire every other aircraft is inferior. From other USAAF pilots who flew both, in combat the Spitfire would win every time. From a USAAF pilot who flew a Spitfire when he was attacked by four P 51's, I simply out manoeuvred them then climbed away leaving them fiting at empty sky.
The P-51 was heavy and didn't climb as well as the Spit, which is why NAA borrowed Spit blueprints for lesons learned and then developed the brand new, lighter P-51H.
The mustang lives up to its name, and it played a big role in ww2, but the spitfire symbolized a country that stood alone and refused to bow to evil. The spitfire took a stand against the Germans. Spitfires fought the whole war too.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Barrie do you mean the war my country won for your country? Barrie it's 2am I'm turning in. Ill have kick your ass some more tomorrow. Good night
Sorry chap it was the hurricane that did most of the beasting in that battle respect to all the allied airmen there are memorials all around my part of the country for the American servicemen last thank you.
I'd always thought the Merlin engine sound was unbeatable.... until one day a Lancaster visited the airshow in my home town. Four Merlins more or less synchronised. Now that's something else again!
Yup. Without that money England would have been out of the war early. The US lend lease program kept both GB and russia fighting. They also violated their neutrality to help England. Those who like to say stupid things regarding the debt from lend lease are just those sad little people who can't face or cope with the fact that GB needed help and a lot of it. Mismanagement was the downfall of the UK. Large interest free loans that they didn't bother to pay back during the interest free period is not the fault of the lender.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Still carrying around that big inferiority complex are you? You sad damaged little person, you really do have nothing else going for other than your desperate little fantasies. Be pathetic someplace else.
I remember it well in late 1945, after a successful raid at a Japanese garrison in South Cotabato, the Philippines a couple of P-51 Mustang circled our family in tree-top level while we were walking in our just cleared corn field. The pilots probably think we were Japanese stragglers that they can finished off! When our father urged as to wave, the pilots waved back and flew off. The P51 were no higher than 100 feet and were just about 75 yards from us. So if I saw the pilots again I probably recognized them. hahahaha. But it is true!
If you compare P-51D to mid war Merlin engined Spits (Mk. IX, Mk. VB) then Mustang will go all the way. But, if you compare with Griffon engined Spits (Mk. XIV, XII, XVIII) then the Spits will out performance Mustangs because it has a better climb rate, arnament, turn rate and more powerful engine.
Depending on the supercharger fitted, engines were rated as low altitude (e.g.; Merlin 66, Griffon III), where the engine produced its maximum power below about 10,000 feet (3,000 m), medium altitude (Merlin 45), where the engine produced its maximum power up to about 20,000 feet (6,100 m), and high altitude (Merlin 70), where the engine produced its maximum power above about 25,000 feet (7,600 m). As a result, the prefixes which were used on most later Spitfire variants, L.F. Mark..., F. Mark.. and H.F Mark indicated whether the engines fitted were suited for low, medium or high altitude. The use of these prefixes did not change according to the wings, which could be fitted with "clipped" tips, reducing the wingspan to about 32 ft 6 in (9.9 m) (this could vary slightly), or the "pointed" tips which increased the wingspan to 40 ft 2 in (12.29 m).en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament#Single_stage_superchargers
@@wilburfinnigan2142 The Merlin 66 was not a high altitude engine, the Merlin 70 was which is why the Spitfire LF MK IX had the Merlin 66 and the Spitfire HF Mk IX had the Merlin 70, both were capable of exceeding 40,000 feet but the 70 went higher and was faster at high altitude
It means nothing, but I like the sound of the Merlin engine better. I'm glad there was no announcer and no music. Shooting blanks would have been nice!
Both gorgeous. How can you choose one over the other? It's a matter of preference really. I like the Mustang slightly better on the looks due to the canopy and large belly air intake. However I like the Spitfire round wing edges.
Good lord what beautiful machines . I would absolutely love to get a ride in either one . I hope that as the years go by that there will always be a few of these planes still flying. Thanks for the video !
We all love comparing these two remarkable aircraft, and debating British Vs. American, but the truth is the Americans needed the Merlin engine (British) for the Mustang to shine and the Brits needed the Browning (American) machine guns to be effective and avoid jamming issues while shooting. Each airplane filled it's roll which, while similar, were not the same, and show what's really possible when these two great nations work together. Thanks for the video!
@@slw619 "Would've." The Allison engine as provided just didn't give the potential that was badly needed by the Mustang and getting a British engine in it right away proved to be a stunningly effective fix that took less time to engineer. I'll grant you later versions swapped back to US engines later on though. Likewise the Spitfire just worked better when the legendarily un-jam-able Browning machine guns were made the weapon of choice. USA needed Britain and Britain needed the USA, this is just one example where working together proved to be far more effective than what could have been achieved if either nation had gone solo.
The two planes aren’t really comparable. The Spitfire was designed some five years before the Mustang at a time when even a year made a difference. The Mustang was commissioned by the British and the early costs were paid for by the British when it was a “cash on delivery” sort of deal. But, as I’m sure many have mentioned, the early P51s had Allison engines which lacked performance especially at height. After the first had been delivered to the RAF someone suggested taking out the Allison engine and fitting a Spitfire engine. And the Mustang (as christened by the British) was born.
I would love to sit in the seat of either of these beautiful aircraft and fly some simple rolls and other basic aerobatics. It has got to be a glorious feeling.
It's neither Spitfire nor P51, but I took a ride in this aircraft last May: fighterflights.co.nz Hottest hot rod that I ever rode in. I'm still buzzing.
Love both. Was the Mustangs performance on 150 octane like your specs on the Spitfire? Just curious. I like the earlier Mks best ... but that 5-blade prop is sweet.
The Spitfire Mk IX came out in 1942 and used 100 octane fuel, later on it used 150 grade which is really 130 octane, so did the P 51, the Spitfire Mk XIV also started out in 1943 using 100 octane fuel, later on it used 130 octane.
@@barrierodliffe4155 correct. Spit IX's with 150 octane and water injection were also used to chase down V-1 buzz bombs. Those merlins were pumping out 2060 or 2200 hp (depending on which source is read).
As an American, I gotta admit that Spitfire looks mighty fine & sounds increadible too. The whistle effect is more noticable with the Spitfire than the Mustang👌
@@maxmullen6337 I know that I am English. (Not British that can mean anything these days) We always had to name the Americans planes for them in those days
Some of the descriptions of the two planes seem a little retrospective. The Mustang certainly became a long range escort fighter but it was not designed as such. How could it have been when the need had not arisen yet and the USA was not in the war for almost another 2 years.THen it would be another year at least before long range escort of USAAF daylight raids would become a priority. The Mustang was designed for a British requirement for a fighter ,if the P40 had been available in sufficient numbers they would have bought that and no one would have heard of a Mustang. The fact that the Mustang did everything within its design brief then exceeded it to become the premier long range escort is a tribute to its advanced design and the team responsible for producing it. They did all this in a few months. Amazing!!!
It was a British test pilot who after a test flight in a Mustang he thought the performance would be improved with a Merlin engine. This was tried and the rest is history.
It went more like this: North American Aviation had aircraft plants available, and was asked to produce P-40s to be exported to Britain. Instead, NAA asked the British if they would be interested in another type, as they though they could design an aircraft that would surpass the P-40 in performance. British agreed to it, and merely about a 100 days later, what would be known as Mustang came to be. Powered with the Allison V-1710 it's low altitude performance was better than what P-40s or even contemporary Spitfires had to offer. Further, British agreed to power the Mustang with the Merlin, and the rest was history. On top of all that, before the whole shebang North American has never designed a fighter aircraft before, and their first try was by far the best designed airframe of the war.
The Spitfire is by far the most beautiful fighter ever to exist. It's lines, the way it graces through the air. Even on the ground, standing still she looks fast and elegant. Nothing beats it. The Mustang is beautiful in her own right and once mated with the Merlin, was arguably the best allied fighter of WWII in technical terms. But she doesn't have the svelt elegance of the Spitty.
@@barrierodliffe4155 as good at what. The Spitfire was better in a dogfight but not way better. The P51 could go as far as 1700 miles. The Spitfire could not go near so far. Different planes for different roles.
The Griffon was bigger and more powerful than the Merlin, but does not have that sweet sound. If you want the ultimate V-12 aircraft engine sound the Daimler-Benz 605 used in the Bf109 is it. There are a number of flying 109s ( most converted from Spanish versions), and no idea where they got the Daimler-Benz engines.
@@loboheeler There are almost no DB 605 left which is why they use available V 12 engines, the Buchon's had the Hispano Suiza engine then later the Rolls Royce Merlin engine, at least one has been restored and fitted with an Allison V 12.
The Merlin engine made the mustang no doubt I love both planes they won the war on both fronts but the spitfire was in battle much longer and they were a Cadillac they flew their selves one hell of a plane. The P51 was not around as long but it was a bad ass to when one of the German generals looked up in Germany and seen the P51 he said the war is lost. But the Spitfire shot the hell out of them over the channel the guy that built the spitfire died in his 40s just as war broke out got to say man spitfire is awesome just for the sake it was fighting early in the war and kicked ass.
Yes, Mitchell was a genius, BUT no salesman, he hated the name ''Spitfire'' he wanted to call it ''The Shrew'' WTF ? although with that snout, I can see why. Glad he was talked out of it.
steve jenkins you over simplify matters. It’s just not correct to suggest the Spitfire dominated and “shot em up”. If that was the case the war could’ve been over much sooner and fewer Spitfire pilots lost. The truth of the matter, WW2 became a terrible tug-of-war for superior technology which the allies nearly lost. As it was, many good pilots lost their lives in an inferior Spitfire.
@@kencramer2232 Some things are simple. When Spitfire losses were at their highest there was nothing better, and the Spitfire soon turned the tables and remained the best fighter to the end of the war. Just as well that the RAF took on the best of the Luftwaffe so that the USAAF did not have to.
@@scottmurphy650 Scott the Bearcat did not see service in WW2 and its 2xcannon and 4 x 50s was matched by late Spitfires Bill Gunston Combat Aircraft F6F-1 to -5 Performance Max speed F- 1 421mph F -2 447 mph Initial Climb Rate 5000ft/min Service ceiling 40000ft Range F-1 1105 miles f-2 865 The Plane that set the world record to height was NOT a service plane. Specially prepared However to make it fair I will go into WW2 Aircraft performance and get back to you.
The Mustang pilot seemed to trust his plane more, as in not to have wings fly off. Yeager thought the Mustang tougher than FW190 marginally. Sad not to see a Spit doing hard turns?
A US Mustang pilot flew both side the Spitfire was the better dog fighter yes the Mustang had the range to get to Germany but you would want a Spitfire to fight over Germany in ideal world
The five blade prop, the mean gruff sound of the Griffon, the solid construction, the Mk.XVIII. Don't get that 51 to near the thunderheads, she'll lose her wings.
The 2 examples here may not be well matched, the Spitfire is the much later Griffon engined version which kept the turnrate of the original spitfire but upped the speed, climbrate and power significantly. The P51 we see is the later itteration after it had the Merlin engine fitted, that on its own turned the mustang from mediocre at best to an outstanding aircraft, certainly on par with the Merlin engined spitfires.
The much later Griffon engine Spitfire entered service some 6 months earlier than the P 51 D even the Spitfire Mk IX had better climb rate and acceleration than any P 51.
On the production numbers, one would expect many more surviving Spitfires. However, in the immediate aftermath of WWII, Britain was severely short of every kind of metal so most of them were scrapped.
Spitfires were obsolete following the start of the jet age so a large proportion were sold to poorer or developing nations or for scrap, but those being scrapped were sometimes sold for the value of the petrol in their fuel tanks rather than the aluminium they were constructed from.
The Spitfire was by far the most important plane because it won the battle of Briton and allowed a staging point to attack Germany. The p51 was by far the most important because it allowed the allies to escort bombers all the way to Berlin and basically wipe out the Luftwaffe. So there you go they were both by far the most important fighter.
The Spitfire was important because it did so much, not just the Battle of Britain but Malta, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland and Germany, by the time the P 51 could fly to Germany the Luftwaffe was already as good as wiped out.
Amazing fighters. While the Spit may have had marginally better performance in certain aspects, the P51s range was the real war winner. The Allies were well served by both but if we had to only have one the P51 would have been it.
Fortunately the Spitfire was there when it was needed and still the best fighter at the end of the war, the Spitfire had better performance in all aspects, the P 51 only had range.
Ladies and gentlemen!! Cease this pointless debate! Just sit back and savor the sight, sound and fury of two storied warbirds still in the air! By God, they are magnificent!! That's what your freedom sounds like, people. Lap it up!
Agreed. The last production models of the p47 had as much range with drop tanks as any p51, 33% more firepower, and an ability to take punishment and still bring home the pilot that is unmatched by anything before or since (arguably other than the A10). It was the only plane of the war actually able to Accelerate in a climb, and the air cooled engine meant it could attack ground targets with far less risk of taking a hit to the radiator, damage that always meant it was coming down in some manner however controlled, or not. The thunderbolt (or Jug) was even known to have MULTIPLE cylinders shot out, and still fly all the way home. Have to disagree about the bearcat, however. Very underpowered, it was a sitting duck and shot down in droves by the Japanese. The Hellcat, on the other hand, had plenty of power and looked remarkably identical to the bearcat. Unfortunately for the Japanese pilots, by the time they realized the hellcat was a new plane they had already lost most of their veteran pilots who followed standard doctrine that allowed them easy victories against the bearcat, but which same doctrine had them getting shot down by hellcats (said doctrine was to climb. Bearcats always stalled out first, allowing a zero it was chasing to nose over and shoot it down, hellcats were able to stick with the zeros, either shooting them down during the climb, or dropping on them after the zero stalled out first.)
Totally agree my Dad flew the P47 in WWII, along with the p-40 and P39, and love the P47. He flew both Razorback and tear drop models, liked the bubble top the best.
Strange to think that the first Spitfires went into service with 2 bladed wooden props, 1000 hp and some fabric covered surfaces! Only 6 years later its become this monster but demonstrably the same design.
Loved these 2 planes. When i was a kid, i went to a Hobby Store and bought a plastic toy Spitfire with a .049 cox motor in it. It had a pair of strings that went from the plane roughly 30 ft to a handle i would hold onto and stand in middle and fly it around circles. I used the school paved parking lot next door to our farm to take off and land. Those were the days.
Nice video, nice quality too. The Merlin engine has a nicer sound (imo) and sounds similar to the Allison, DB and Jumo series. The Griffon has a different cylinder firing order which doesn't sound as good. Actually this is more of a tail chase than a "simulated dogfight."
@@barrierodliffe4155 You seem to be a Spitfire fan so I'll ask you if the Spitfire out performed the Mustang why did the Brits not put belly tanks on them and use them to escort bombers to Germany?
@@williammawk1720 The RAF did use Spitfires with drop tanks and escorted both the RAF and USAAF bombers in 1943 and 1944. I wonder why the only important thing is meant to be escorting USAAF bombers to Germany. Just to make it clear in 1943 the Spitfire Mk VII flew from Culmhead in Somerset on sweeps over France of over 1,000 miles and escorted bombers almost as far. Even without the drop tank I have a record of a sweep by Spitfire Mk VII's flying a sweep over France, over 620 miles, mostly at low level and at an average speed of over 390 mph. Just to show how the Spitfire compared to the P 51 I will take a 1942 Spitfire Mk IX and compare it to a 1944 P 51D. Apart from top speed which the P 51 was faster, acceleration the Spitfire was considerably faster, like ten seconds less from 200 to 350 mph. Rate of climb P 51 Spitfire 4,800 feet 3,600 ft/min 3,750 ft/min 25,000 feet 2,400 ft/min 3,050 ft/min time to 20,000 feet 6.8 minutes 5.6 minutes time to 30,000 feet 10.9 minutes 9.2 minutes time to 40,000 feet 22.2 minutes 16.6 minutes service ceiling 41,600 feet 43,400 feet It gets even more impressive for the Spitfire when you realize the Spitfire performance test was October 1942 and the P 51 D performance test was June 1945
Spitfire and mustang both had their place in the war but the aircraft that actually defeated the Germans was the p-47 . If I'm going in the combat I want the thunderbolt flies higher faster and has way more armament than both those planes.
![The Spitfire VS the P-51 Mustang - Which one was better [ WWII DOCUMENTARY ]](/img/1.gif)
"If you see a silver plane, it's American. If it's green, it's British. If you see nothing at all, it's the Luftwaffe."
If you see an fighter pilot ace with 5 kills, he's in a spitfire. If he has 20 kills, he's in a Mustang. If he has hundred's of kill's he's flying for the Luftwaffe. Both Mustang and Spitfire's are beautiful aircraft though. I've got both in 1/32 scale model kits on the shelf.
@@paulordeman5169 and that makes you an expert 😂😂😂
Wise words my Motherers grandpa told her
The Navy and Marines used a light underside to resemble the sky and the tops were a dark blue for the ocean. The 24 Liberator was a tan color. Some models of the 17 were olive or a dark green color. We also had the P61 Black Widow which was black and our only nighttime fighter.
@@jmw9904
Didn't the USAAF use the Mosquito as a night fighter? they even tried to get more because of the P 61 being rather poor for the job.
My father was a P-51 pilot. He retired in '65, when I was 3, but we'd go to air shows and he'd chat up the pilots, knew one of them, and I'd get to sit it the cockpits and stand on the wings. Felt like hot stuff, I'll tell you. And to feel those motors up close, as a little guy, took my breath away, for several breaths.
Great Memories mate
I love the Spitfire even when the Griffon engine was installed in it. I find that the Merlin gave the Spitfire it’s most pleasing sound. Always a Spitfire fan.
Thanks watching and your comment
Nice aircraft the `Spit` until you bump into `Pips Pruller` ... he shot down over 68 of these `amazing spitfires` (homself)
@@mudpie95
If one is to believe all of these claims, I would want to examine each claim and see how many matched RAF Spitfire losses before taking it as being true.
Oh dear.
Battle of Britain claims
July 10th 1 Spitfire damaged, not shot down.
July 14th 1 Hurricane. No RAF losses on the day.
2 down and only half way through July.
I believe both aircraft had the Merlin.
I see there is the usual comments below about range, but please bear in mind the Spitfire was designed to protect UK from foreign bombers and had adequate range for that task. To ease production, which was now needed to be devoted to bombers, the RAF went to the US for a similar aircraft to the Spitfire and got the Mustang. At first the US saw no potential in the Mustang, but it was only when their bomber losses became unsustainable there turned to the Mustang and added more petrol tanks to give them the range needed to accompany bombers to target. Because the RAF concentrated on night bombing they saw no need for fighter protection; you can question that policy. However the Spitfire could go to Berlin, and did regularly. When the Spitfire role was changed to interdiction, its range was increased. Arguing one was better than the other is meaningless. They, most of the time performed different roles; THEY COMPLIMENTED EACH OTHER.
exactly. Britain would have collapsed without US help
Laurie When the beggar Brits came to the USA they were looking for the Curtis P40 as they considered it the Best AVAILABLE fighter AT THAT TIME !!!! Curtis was booked and busy with USAAF orders and the beggar Brits went to North American asking them to build the P40 for them. Dutch Kindelberger, NAA President REFUSED to build anothers obsolete plane and OFFERED the Brits a design he had been working on and doing the research on. Why North American was able to deliver a new MODERN fighter in 112 days from day of signing the contract !!!! Brits took what was offered and available and NAA produced the fastest fighter AT THAT TIME of INTRODUCTION, @ 400 MPH !!! Remembering the shitfire Mk V could only muster 368 MPH at half the altitude. see RAF Mustangs here on You Tube to see what the Brits had to say about their NEW FAST, Modern fighter !!! Also the Mustang had over twice the internal fuel capacity and able to lift twice the bomb load of the Mk V shitfire !!! Facts, not lies, or Hype or British BULLSHIT !!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 happy to see you still need to be rude about us Brits. It Tells me we are still a major force to be reckoned with. I take issue with the beggar bit. As I understand we were happy to, and did pay, (in fact we only payed pour war debt off around 2010.) Lend lease was not our preferred option that came from Congress, The Spitfire could have carried the same amount of fuel as the Mustang. Its the was the powers that be at the top of the RAF who appear to blocked the design because that thought it would interfere with its fighter role. Its unfair to compare the MKV to the Mustang, it didn't have the two stage compressor, and had been superseded by the MKIX which did and was around be fore the Mustang so its is a fairer comparison. But thankyou for a great airplane, it played a significant part in our victory.
Wilbur Finnigan calm down you prick it was over 70 years ago and you had nothing to do with it,
@@gregparker9272 He can't help being a nasty, spiteful little bastard - he just doesn't know any better. He hates everyone, including his fellow Americans.
Thank you for not spoiling it with crappy music. Just love listening to the glorious sound of those engines. But for me the Spitfire is my favourite, the shape is just great.
Thanks watching and commenting
Same :)
Not to mention the roaring sound of the rolls royce engine. Just pure gold
music from these engines
yes! no kidding! you cannot fully enjoy the planes without hearing them make their own music!
You could spend $500M on a new fighter jet and it would still pale in comparison and have nowhere near the cool factor of these old girls!
True !
That is true, they had to spend 500 billion USD to develop the F-35. Invisible to targeting radar, a suite of electronics totaling several thousand watts of radar jamming backed up by several supercomputers that detect all targeting radars, produce counter signals, and then issue a non repeating random sequences produce jamming radar frequencies, flies above mach 1.2 without afterburners attaining supercruise(Limited to 150 miles because the radar absorbent might burn off) The F-35 can also provide its data processing to a flock of F-16s or F-15's.
StarSwarm I like the old cars a lot better too. For one thing, just as the mandolin is the percussion instrument in Bluegrass music, so a piston engine is a series of explosions modulated by two stage turbos coming to our ears in a throaty powerful rumble of 3,000 rpm. So whiny jet engines possesses non of the music our ears crave.
StarSwarm I suggest, if you ever become an F-35 pilot, purchase a pair of rose colored glasses and put a car stereo in your fighter jet, and pop in an 8 track that plays the sounds of early Detroit-ville.
I personally prefer the Sopwith Camel.
Or spend the same money as you would on a mustang and get a L 39 jet that will blow it away.
*laughs in F-14*
No but seriously, Spitfire is the real daddy.
Both beautiful aircraft, hard to believe they’re 75 years old!!!!
Yes Awesome
Actully no, its very easy to belive they are 75YO, the newer planes look like garbage, so if it is nice looking its usually alot older… an easy rule of thumb for us to follow… ;)
The two symbols of liberty, freedom and defying the odds both flying together in peace. A peace they helped achieve. Incredible.
Thanks for your comment
Liberty and freedom for whom exactly? More than half of Europe got occupied for 70 years by a regime far worse than nazism... And what odds? The Luftwaffe didn't exist in 1944 because it got swarmed. Don't make me laugh.
@@Shadowhunterbg
Liberty from the Nazi's, only half of Germany was occupied by Russia, most of Europe was free which was not the case when the Nazi's took over and stole all they could from every occupied country leaving the population starving like Holland where the RAF was dropping food while Germany was still in control. It took many years for these countries to recover.
@@barrierodliffe4155 for half of Europe you liberated no one, actually you made it worse.
@@Shadowhunterbg
Only in your tiny brain, the main thing was to rid the world of the very evil Nazi's, we did that and saved all the occupied countries from starvation, what happened afterwards in some countries was not our doing. Maybe if USA had been less weak things would have been better but that is the way it was, no one wanted to live life under the oppressive murdering Nazi's.
If your going to the wolfs lair jump in the mustang, if the wolfs at your door choose the spitfire
After much reading I agree
If you're in any scenario...P51D.
agree. Mustang did a certain job , the Spit did a certain job.
@@patthewoodboy Different eras; different purposes. But Mustang was superior in many performance categories. P51s ensured bomber protection and even successfully combatted 262s. Sealed the deal in two theaters of war. Pinnacle of piston technology (along with F4U).
@@c2jones Hmmn.... the Spit' xviii was faster and more powerful than the P51D the Griffon putting out just under 2400hp as opposed to the P51D's packard Merlin's just under 1700hp .
So hardly "vastly superior in every performance category." as you suggest, that aside they were originally designed years apart and for differing roles the Spit' being developed as an interceptor and Mustang as an escort .
The RCAF used the P-51D. A pilot we knew, years ago, called it the American Spitfire. Both are such magnificent aircraft. Love them equally.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
It’s like choosing between blonde and brunette, how can you choose just one?!
@@hillbillysceptic1982 thats it
The USAAF used Spitfires too, their pilots liked the Spitfire better
The brunette, always the brunette.
When I was younger, I worked with a fellow who, in his seventies, was more fit than his grown kids. In WW2, he had been a P-51 candidate in one of several experimental 'rush' training programs. Taxiing deaths, and a glut of pilots, cancelled the programs. He was actually relieved to now be a combat engineer going into D-Day--but he never lost his love for that Merlin sound. We worked near the Naval Test Pilot School, which contracted a Mustang to broaden the test pilot candidate's experience. Unbelievably, my friend and I were the only ones in the building who knew that Merlin note. Whenever that Mustang was in the area, I would run to the parking lot--where he would already be standing in complete peace. As a side note, during our friendship, he received a letter complaining that the Garand he turned in was the wrong serial number. I'll paraphrase his reply: I had a bit of trouble swimming in the Channel and managed to misplace mine. When I met a fellow who didn't need his anymore, I borrowed it. The Government reply: sorry; we won't bother you anymore.
One of the best vids of aircraft I have seen. No talking, no music, just great visuals and beautiful sound from two spectacular aircraft! Well done and thanks!!!!
Thanks watching and liking
2 excellent aircraft! Love them both, but being British I'd have to pick the spitfire! What a fantastic noise they both make 👌
Wonderful. Great camera work of multiple passes, that fabulous V12 sound, no music, and pertinent subtitles. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks mate !
The Spitfire has that throaty growl, and I do like the whistle/whine that the Mustang makes.
apparently the whistle the Mustang has us an artefact of its outside gun port. Saw that comment in a doco!
@@zenonkolacz3004 I did not know that, thanks.
Both have a very unique sound. Kinda like my favorite “modern” plane the A10. No mistaking the sound of those!
Supercharger
The Whistle Wine... is that due 2 the air pick up just at the back of the wing under the fuselage ? Yes its a real neat sound. Any answers on this would be appreciated. Thx
Thank for this. These two fighters always fascinated me as much in terms of their difference of performance as anything else.
Both were significant and highly successful aeroplanes.
Thanks watching and commenting
It’s interesting how these worked together in the European theater. Spitfires would escort the bomber formations across the channel where they would be picked up by P-38s and P-47s in France, which would escort them close to the German border. From there, the P-51 Mustangs would take over and escort them to the target. Kind of a bad ass relay race lol.
True
Thank you to all the allied fighters of WW2 and their pilots.We would not have won that terrible war without them, the men and women who fought on the ground and the American and British navy.
The RAF in particular owes much to the Polish pilots whom hated the luftwaffe and Germany twice as much as the Brits did. They had severe bloodlust and fought as hard as anyyone in Ww2
@@tomwebb7091 Same with Czechs
@@tomwebb7091 yes they took Mont Casino with Kiwi and Indian help
I am fortunate enough to live near the Battle of Britain memorial... Almost everyday in summer we get to here sound of Merlin's roar... Spine-tingling...
Wow that’s great 😃
I'm in Southampton. Where's the memorial?
@@Ash_Hudson RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire. The Lancaster is based here also.
@@Ash_Hudson The Battle of Britain Memorial is at Capel- le- Ferne near Folkestone, Kent, however The Battle of Britain Memorial Flight is based at RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire
The Spitfire is a head turner, just like concorde was. It just has an aura.
Don't forget the Vulcan too!
@C Es
Both late to the war, just like USA. arrive after most of the hard fighting has been done then claim to have won the war.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Well yeah, that's why so many Europeans immigrated to America, to get away from your kings and lords and all their wars.
@@RandomDudeOne
Yes and it shows, you ended up with a lot of ignorant fools like Trump.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Nobody claims America won the war, but like Churchill said the war couldn't be won without America in it.
Eric Brown summed it up nicely. He always preferred the Spitfire, but you couldn't fly to Berlin and back in a Spitfire.
Good conclusion
Haha was just checking comments
The Americans were using Spitfires to do just that flying from England lol.
British fighters were notoriously short ranged. If the dumb buggers had given the Spitfire more fuel?
Then it would be a different story.
@Gary Tarr Yes I watched this a few months a go. So what do you me to apologize for?
I live near Goodwood and have spitefires regularly over fly my home,always gets me running outside when i hear that distinctive merlin engine.
And do you prefer Merlin or griffon Sounds ?
@@Warbirds Merlin
We live in Detling. Kent.
I couldn't tell you the difference between the griffon or the Merlin. But like you say when I hear that turbine I'm running outside trying to take photos.
i live not too far from Duxford and do exactly the same thing! Amazing machines! In the words of Gen Chuck Yeager, "When i think of flying, I think of Fighting; and those are some fighting aircraft" (paraphrase from 1997)
I am seriously jealous
My two favourite aeroplanes of all-time. Nothing beats the sound of the Merlin engine. It purrs like a cat. Brilliant!
robertsmale the shitfire had the Griffon engine !!! DUUUUHHH!!!!! And the Mustang had the PACKARD made in AMERICA Merlin !!!!!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 Spitfires were powered by Merlin engines, some variants Griffons. P51s were licensed Packard engines of a Merlin 66 (P51D). So they had Merlin engines. The version that fought in the Battle of Britain had a Merlin engine.
In an interview, Göring said, "When I saw Mustangs over Berlin, I knew the jig was up."
The Spitfire was considered by many to be the beautiful and artistic creation of the 20th century.
And it is
The Harrier Jumpin' Bean and the FA18 Hornet are 20th Century too. Personally, I've seen some prettier Mountain Bikes. And french nylons completely roast an airplane for best 20th Cent thing. Kajillions of preverts can't be wrong.
I choose the Mustang.
@@santyclause8034 LoL : )
Easily.
Two of the most beautiful aircraft ever built!
The shrill whine of those supercharged engines is spine tingling. Seeing those simulated dog fights giving those airframes a gentle stretch is great too.
Thanks for your lovely comment . Enjoyed
This is by far the best video of the Sptifire and the P51D Mustang thanks for sharing this
Thanks watching it
Actually I am an absolute fan of german aircraft, but the Spitfire will always keep a special place in my heart - for me it was one of the best planes of WW2
Thanks for watching and stay tuned for more videos
...until the P-51 showed up.
@@kenz5469 ... which didn't come close to the Spitfire because many dogefights were at higher altitudes where the P 51 had a lot of problems to fight the Bf 109 and Fw 190 D while the Spitfire could keep up - I really don't want to turn this into a discussion but the P 51 had just a high top speed at sea level and a decent high speed turn rate - In a 1 vs 1 against a 190 or 109 (after the G 6) with equal energy states the P 51 would stand most likely no chance - It can just dive away and then outrun the Bf 109 - against the 190 even this would be hard... the P 51 has simply not the engine Power and low speed fighting capabilities to fight any of these Planes - It can just fire some rounds and then run - and Plane could've done that and succeed with the same amount of planes as the US Air Force had, actually the P 51 was pretty bad against planes from 1944/45 while the Spitfire Mk XIV could keep up thanks to the Griffon engine, decent turn charakteristics and very good energy fight capabilities - even the top speed was decent (717 km/h at 7000m) the P 51 was good at 1943 but 1944 and 45 the german fighters were superior- and even at 1943 the Spitfire Mk XIV outclassed the P 51 - It just had not the range to escort bombers into germany.
@@bluefox9436 Those were the early P-51's. In 1944, the updated engine version ones were more than capable, especially the long range versions...could stay in the air much longer.
@@kenz5469 the "updated engine" still just provided 1600 - 1700 hp - 150 octane fuel pushed it at ca. 1800 but that is still not enough to keep up with the 2000 hp engines and the lighter airframe of the Bf 109 K4/ Spitfire Mk XIV and Fw 190 - and I didn't include 150 octane fuel for the Spitfire, the Fw 190 had actually even with the D9 version 2100 hp and the K4 had just half the weight of the P 51 and all the other benefits of the 109 - It even outran the P 51 at 6K - It doesn't matter if we use the P 51 D5, D20 or D30 - all can't do mutch against the other nations top planes because the P 51 was more quantity than quality
2 beautiful aircraft, both absolute masterpieces of design. Often compared, though often unfairly I feel, without taking into account the different philosophies behind their designs. The Spitfire was built in answer the the bomber doctrine of the 1930’s as a defensive weapon, a high speed interceptor if you will. A stunningly beautiful and very effective aircraft with a basic design that allowed it to be upgraded throughout the war.
The Mustang’s story is of an extraordinary design completed in record time that was turned into a war-changer building on lessons learned from the early years of the war. Again a gorgeous plane, with the range to both protect the daylight bombing raids in Europe and make an impact in the further flung battlefields of the Asia-Pacific. They were generationally different designs but most importantly beautiful and iconic aircraft flown by extraordinarily brave pilots. Love them both.
Both are iconic fighters, but to me the Spitfire is the very embodiment of total defiance….and you can’t beat the sound of her super chargers.
One has 2035 HP and weighs max 8385 lb and the other 1695 HP and weighs max 12,100 lb. You do the math.
Both stunning planes,merlin engine will always be regarded as one of the best engines of its times but the griffon sounds absolutely brutal.
jaypesserial And the PACKARD built and modified was an improvement on the RR design and they were used only in the mustangs !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142DUHH like I said regarded as one of the best you trolling helmet !!!!!!!!!!🤣
@@wilburfinnigan2142 The Packard was a copy and certainly not improved, it was paid for by Rolls Royce and used in the Spitfire Mk XVI, a squadron when supplied with Mk XVI's to replace their old Spitfires, the squadron leader kept his old Spitfire which was faster and better.
People arguing over two planes neither of which would have existed without the British. The Spitfire and the Mustang the latter coming about because the British had issued a requirement for it. It also flew around with the Merlin engine in it which gave it a huge performance boost. Both great planes and if anyone wants to offer me a flight in either, I would grab it.
NAA Kindelberger requested installation plans and documents for the Merlin XX in March 1941 as he was already fed up with Allison's lack of support and lame attempt to bolt on an aux supercharger to the V-1710 . GM therefore interfered with NAA attempts to sell the Mustang to the USAAF.
Two beautiful and iconic aircraft - both played a major part in achieving victory.
Wow! This is the best video I've seen of these two iconic planes. These birds are gorgeous.
Thanks
Please everyone, calm down with all the arguing over the Spit' and the 'Stang. They are both brilliant and beautiful birds in their own regards, and were *designed for different purposes* originally. Please keep that in mind when comparing the two.
And let's be honest (myself included) - we all have slight biases depending on our nationality... _ESPECIALLY BETWEEN BRITS AND YANKS_ !
I love the spitfire profile. It just looks so sleek, it’s def my favorite of the two in terms of looks
And you didn't mention that the Griffon engine rotated in the opposite direction to the Merlin; clockwise from the front view. This meant that opposite rudder, and a good deal more of it, because of the extra power, had to be used in Griffon-powered Spitfires during take-off. This could catch out a pilot, leading to an accident.
My grandfather volunteered for the RAF and flew a Spitfire, and then the USAAF scooped him up and put him in a Mustang for the rest of the war. He said the Spitfire was like a sports coupe and the Mustang was like a Cadillac, and that it would climb ‘like a homesick angel’.
One was a interceptor, one a high altitude escort so that makes perfect sense. :)
teleblaster from the man that flew both, and he is not alone on that !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 From a USAAF pilot who flew both Afterr the Spitfire every other aircraft is inferior.
From other USAAF pilots who flew both, in combat the Spitfire would win every time.
From a USAAF pilot who flew a Spitfire when he was attacked by four P 51's, I simply out manoeuvred them then climbed away leaving them fiting at empty sky.
The P-51 was heavy and didn't climb as well as the Spit, which is why NAA borrowed Spit blueprints for lesons learned and then developed the brand new, lighter P-51H.
The mustang lives up to its name, and it played a big role in ww2, but the spitfire symbolized a country that stood alone and refused to bow to evil. The spitfire took a stand against the Germans. Spitfires fought the whole war too.
Just got to say 2 of the most fantastic looking planes you would ever wish to see.wonderful.
Thx
Both great planes, But the Spit will always be remembered as the plane that won the battle of britain
And the P-47 will be remembered as the beast that destroyed the Riech
@@laurencethornblade1195 i thought June 6 1944 meant the destruction of the Reich, and the Russian offensive from the east. Guess i was wrong😱😱😱
@@laurencethornblade1195
The p 47 is remembered as the very heavy expensive and poor performing aircraft that did little in the war.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Barrie do you mean the war my country won for your country? Barrie it's 2am I'm turning in. Ill have kick your ass some more tomorrow. Good night
Sorry chap it was the hurricane that did most of the beasting in that battle respect to all the allied airmen there are memorials all around my part of the country for the American servicemen last thank you.
Never get tired of hearing these engines. Awesome aircraft. Thanks for the video.
I'd always thought the Merlin engine sound was unbeatable.... until one day a Lancaster visited the airshow in my home town. Four Merlins more or less synchronised. Now that's something else again!
A tribute to Anglo-American friendship! 🇬🇧🇺🇸 Never again to go it alone.
Yup. Without that money England would have been out of the war early. The US lend lease program kept both GB and russia fighting. They also violated their neutrality to help England. Those who like to say stupid things regarding the debt from lend lease are just those sad little people who can't face or cope with the fact that GB needed help and a lot of it. Mismanagement was the downfall of the UK. Large interest free loans that they didn't bother to pay back during the interest free period is not the fault of the lender.
@@TheEvilmooseofdoom
US profiteering out of the war and sad Yanks who hate Britain making stupid comments like you do when you have no idea.
@@barrierodliffe4155 Still carrying around that big inferiority complex are you? You sad damaged little person, you really do have nothing else going for other than your desperate little fantasies. Be pathetic someplace else.
@Hoa Tattis It didn't amount to much compared to the flow going the other way.
@Hoa Tattis I wouldn't trust the US either.
I remember it well in late 1945, after a successful raid at a Japanese garrison in South Cotabato, the Philippines a couple of P-51 Mustang circled our family in tree-top level while we were walking in our just cleared corn field. The pilots probably think we were Japanese stragglers that they can finished off! When our father urged as to wave, the pilots waved back and flew off. The P51 were no higher than 100 feet and were just about 75 yards from us. So if I saw the pilots again I probably recognized them. hahahaha. But it is true!
Cool story!
If you compare P-51D to mid war Merlin engined Spits (Mk. IX, Mk. VB) then Mustang will go all the way. But, if you compare with Griffon engined Spits (Mk. XIV, XII, XVIII) then the Spits will out performance Mustangs because it has a better climb rate, arnament, turn rate and more powerful engine.
Depending on the supercharger fitted, engines were rated as low altitude (e.g.; Merlin 66, Griffon III), where the engine produced its maximum power below about 10,000 feet (3,000 m), medium altitude (Merlin 45), where the engine produced its maximum power up to about 20,000 feet (6,100 m), and high altitude (Merlin 70), where the engine produced its maximum power above about 25,000 feet (7,600 m). As a result, the prefixes which were used on most later Spitfire variants, L.F. Mark..., F. Mark.. and H.F Mark indicated whether the engines fitted were suited for low, medium or high altitude. The use of these prefixes did not change according to the wings, which could be fitted with "clipped" tips, reducing the wingspan to about 32 ft 6 in (9.9 m) (this could vary slightly), or the "pointed" tips which increased the wingspan to 40 ft 2 in (12.29 m).en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supermarine_Spitfire_variants:_specifications,_performance_and_armament#Single_stage_superchargers
nickdanger Merlin 66 was a high altitude engine !!!
@@wilburfinnigan2142 The Merlin 66 was not a high altitude engine, the Merlin 70 was which is why the Spitfire LF MK IX had the Merlin 66 and the Spitfire HF Mk IX had the Merlin 70, both were capable of exceeding 40,000 feet but the 70 went higher and was faster at high altitude
What absolutely BEAUTIFUL aircraft! You can’t go wrong with either one. Both had a specific role to fill and both did an exceptional job!
It means nothing, but I like the sound of the Merlin engine better. I'm glad there was no announcer and no music. Shooting blanks would have been nice!
Agreed---to me, it's the difference between the sound of a Jaguar 4.2L straight six, and a Diesel.
I will take the Spitfire any day of the week. Because sitting on a parachute for nine straight hours must have been pure hell!
True that. There is nae much Cadillac about sitting on a parachute and holdin'
your " pee " for 9 hrs.
@@arrowbflight5082 If you were locked into a Cadillac for 9 hours straight, your bladder might get uncomfortable too.
What an outstanding, quality video of 2 of my favorite WW2 airplanes.
Thanks watching and sharing a link to this Video is welcome Ted !
@@Warbirds You are more than welcome!
It’s amazing that two aircraft in so many ways are so similar could be so different. Which is better? Both…
Both gorgeous. How can you choose one over the other? It's a matter of preference really. I like the Mustang slightly better on the looks due to the canopy and large belly air intake. However I like the Spitfire round wing edges.
From the side the P51 looks like a pregnant Goldfish
@@jacktattis Are you British or German?
@@claycc79 Australian
That's so cool, they look like they just came off the assembly line. Thanks Alleswasspassmacht!
Good lord what beautiful machines . I would absolutely love to get a ride in either one . I hope that as the years go by that there will always be a few of these planes still flying. Thanks for the video !
Thanks watching and your comment
Watching this was such a vicious pleasure. Thank You !
Thanks for your lovely comment
I first saw a Spitfire in the air at Farnborough in the 60s ,that sight and sound still gives me goosebumps.
So u still Love the sound
We all love comparing these two remarkable aircraft, and debating British Vs. American, but the truth is the Americans needed the Merlin engine (British) for the Mustang to shine and the Brits needed the Browning (American) machine guns to be effective and avoid jamming issues while shooting. Each airplane filled it's roll which, while similar, were not the same, and show what's really possible when these two great nations work together. Thanks for the video!
@@slw619 "Would've." The Allison engine as provided just didn't give the potential that was badly needed by the Mustang and getting a British engine in it right away proved to be a stunningly effective fix that took less time to engineer. I'll grant you later versions swapped back to US engines later on though. Likewise the Spitfire just worked better when the legendarily un-jam-able Browning machine guns were made the weapon of choice. USA needed Britain and Britain needed the USA, this is just one example where working together proved to be far more effective than what could have been achieved if either nation had gone solo.
The two planes aren’t really comparable. The Spitfire was designed some five years before the Mustang at a time when even a year made a difference. The Mustang was commissioned by the British and the early costs were paid for by the British when it was a “cash on delivery” sort of deal.
But, as I’m sure many have mentioned, the early P51s had Allison engines which lacked performance especially at height. After the first had been delivered to the RAF someone suggested taking out the Allison engine and fitting a Spitfire engine.
And the Mustang (as christened by the British) was born.
Old Man you are correct sir
Loved the Spitfire since my school years in the 60's, it will be disloyal to shout "Mustang!" now, but it is a difficult choice...
Both are great !
I would love to sit in the seat of either of these beautiful aircraft and fly some simple rolls and other basic aerobatics. It has got to be a glorious feeling.
Of course
please 😀
It's neither Spitfire nor P51, but I took a ride in this aircraft last May:
fighterflights.co.nz
Hottest hot rod that I ever rode in. I'm still buzzing.
Love both. Was the Mustangs performance on 150 octane like your specs on the Spitfire? Just curious. I like the earlier Mks best ... but that 5-blade prop is sweet.
The Spitfire Mk IX came out in 1942 and used 100 octane fuel, later on it used 150 grade which is really 130 octane, so did the P 51, the Spitfire Mk XIV also started out in 1943 using 100 octane fuel, later on it used 130 octane.
@@barrierodliffe4155 correct. Spit IX's with 150 octane and water injection were also used to chase down V-1 buzz bombs. Those merlins were pumping out 2060 or 2200 hp (depending on which source is read).
As an American, I gotta admit that Spitfire looks mighty fine & sounds increadible too. The whistle effect is more noticable with the Spitfire than the Mustang👌
The Merlin in the P51 is sweet music the Griffon in the Spitfire somehow sounds Angrier than the merlin A growl rather than a purr Both are Beautiful
chitlika. Strictly speaking, it’s a Mustang. The plane was commissioned by the British to a British specification and they named it the Mustang.
@@maxmullen6337 I know that I am English. (Not British that can mean anything these days) We always had to name the Americans planes for them in those days
probably cause the griffon is 10 litres bigger than the merlin
The Griffon sounds different as it is bigger and has a different firing order compared with the Merlin
Amazing sound from those engines. Brilliant aircraft.
Thanks Otto
That's a very late Spit. The Griffon sounds different.
Sound awesome
A late Spitfire and a late P 51.
Which version? Later versions of Spits outclass the P-51D in all aspects other than range,
Which makes sense since one was a interceptor and the other a escort.
And even range wasn't an issue when the allies had airfields on the continent in Belgium etc by autumn 1944.
Could we compare the P51 Merlin with the Seafire with the Griffon and Contra props? Great video, thanks
No, it is hardly fair to compare the P 51 to a Spitfire Mk IX from 1942, the Seafire Mk 47 is really far too much
Some of the descriptions of the two planes seem a little retrospective.
The Mustang certainly became a long range escort fighter but it was not designed as such.
How could it have been when the need had not arisen yet and the USA was not in the war for almost another 2 years.THen it would be another year at least before long range escort of USAAF daylight raids would become a priority.
The Mustang was designed for a British requirement for a fighter ,if the P40 had been available in sufficient numbers they would have bought that and no one would have heard of a Mustang.
The fact that the Mustang did everything within its design brief then exceeded it to become the premier long range escort is a tribute to its advanced design and the team responsible for producing it.
They did all this in a few months. Amazing!!!
Thanks for your comprehensive know how and sharing this
And thank you for your excellent videos ,always great productions.
It was a British test pilot who after a test flight in a Mustang he thought the performance would be improved with a Merlin engine. This was tried and the rest is history.
@@billycaspersghost7528 Thanks
It went more like this: North American Aviation had aircraft plants available, and was asked to produce P-40s to be exported to Britain. Instead, NAA asked the British if they would be interested in another type, as they though they could design an aircraft that would surpass the P-40 in performance. British agreed to it, and merely about a 100 days later, what would be known as Mustang came to be. Powered with the Allison V-1710 it's low altitude performance was better than what P-40s or even contemporary Spitfires had to offer. Further, British agreed to power the Mustang with the Merlin, and the rest was history.
On top of all that, before the whole shebang North American has never designed a fighter aircraft before, and their first try was by far the best designed airframe of the war.
The Spitfire is by far the most beautiful fighter ever to exist. It's lines, the way it graces through the air. Even on the ground, standing still she looks fast and elegant. Nothing beats it. The Mustang is beautiful in her own right and once mated with the Merlin, was arguably the best allied fighter of WWII in technical terms. But she doesn't have the svelt elegance of the Spitty.
Thanks for your lovely comment
The P 51 with the Rolls Royce Merlin was considered the best US fighter, it was never as good as the Spitfire.
@@barrierodliffe4155 as good at what. The Spitfire was better in a dogfight but not way better. The P51 could go as far as 1700 miles. The Spitfire could not go near so far. Different planes for different roles.
I love he Griffon Sound !
its great !
No a late Version but i love her !
@Dalle Smalhals
All Spitfires are classic Spitfires, nothing else was as good.
The Griffon was bigger and more powerful than the Merlin, but does not have that sweet sound. If you want the ultimate V-12 aircraft engine sound the Daimler-Benz 605 used in the Bf109 is it. There are a number of flying 109s ( most converted from Spanish versions), and no idea where they got the Daimler-Benz engines.
@@loboheeler
There are almost no DB 605 left which is why they use available V 12 engines, the Buchon's had the Hispano Suiza engine then later the Rolls Royce Merlin engine, at least one has been restored and fitted with an Allison V 12.
1943 spitfires had a top speed of 440 mph v p51 425 .
We have just had are airshow... it was lovely to see two Spits and two ME 109's flying together .
Wow ! Where was it ?
Bournemouth they came over are building site( very low ) ......then turned left in to the air show..... what a beautiful thing to see.
The spitfire is a beautiful plane.
The Merlin engine made the mustang no doubt I love both planes they won the war on both fronts but the spitfire was in battle much longer and they were a Cadillac they flew their selves one hell of a plane. The P51 was not around as long but it was a bad ass to when one of the German generals looked up in Germany and seen the P51 he said the war is lost. But the Spitfire shot the hell out of them over the channel the guy that built the spitfire died in his 40s just as war broke out got to say man spitfire is awesome just for the sake it was fighting early in the war and kicked ass.
Yes, Mitchell was a genius, BUT no salesman, he hated the name ''Spitfire'' he wanted to call it ''The Shrew'' WTF ? although with that snout, I can see why. Glad he was talked out of it.
steve jenkins you over simplify matters. It’s just not correct to suggest the Spitfire dominated and “shot em up”. If that was the case the war could’ve been over much sooner and fewer Spitfire pilots lost. The truth of the matter, WW2 became a terrible tug-of-war for superior technology which the allies nearly lost. As it was, many good pilots lost their lives in an inferior Spitfire.
@@kencramer2232
Some things are simple. When Spitfire losses were at their highest there was nothing better, and the Spitfire soon turned the tables and remained the best fighter to the end of the war. Just as well that the RAF took on the best of the Luftwaffe so that the USAAF did not have to.
The plane that could out fly anything in the sky at the beginning of WW2 ETO could still out fly anything at the end...that is the Spitfire.
Pure propaganda
@@scottmurphy650 Tell us what you think was better
@@jacktattis Grumman F8F Bearcat. Faster, MUCH higher rate of climb, more maneuverable and the 4 20mm cannons of the F8F-2, more heavily armed.
@@scottmurphy650 Scott the Bearcat did not see service in WW2 and its 2xcannon and 4 x 50s was matched by late Spitfires
Bill Gunston Combat Aircraft F6F-1 to -5 Performance
Max speed F- 1 421mph F -2 447 mph Initial Climb Rate 5000ft/min Service ceiling 40000ft Range F-1 1105 miles f-2 865
The Plane that set the world record to height was NOT a service plane. Specially prepared
However to make it fair I will go into WW2 Aircraft performance and get back to you.
@@jacktattis The Bearcat DID see service in WWII but was too late to see combat.
The Mustang pilot seemed to trust his plane more, as in not to have wings fly off. Yeager thought the Mustang tougher than FW190 marginally. Sad not to see a Spit doing hard turns?
A US Mustang pilot flew both side the Spitfire was the better dog fighter yes the Mustang had the range to get to Germany but you would want a Spitfire to fight over Germany in ideal world
Warst du am Sonntag doch noch mal draußen?
Ja morgens spazieren an der Landebahn mit Frau und Kind. Die FW 190 habe ich aber verpasst
@@Warbirds die perspektive ist gut
ja war interessant auch vom Sound her
The Spitfire along with the Hurricane was the turning point that saved the world. 🧐🇬🇧
OK, and here's me thinking all along it was the Soviet T-34 that did it.
no it was american industrial might that did it
Both amazing and beautiful planes
Both pale in comparison to the mosquito my absolute favourite.
The five blade prop, the mean gruff sound of the Griffon, the solid construction, the Mk.XVIII. Don't get that 51 to near the thunderheads, she'll lose her wings.
The Griffon sounds awesome with the 5-Blade Prop. Maybe the P-51h could compete. I will let you know #Osh2020
@@Warbirds The "H"!? UG! The bastard cousin of the 51. God I hate that plane. Now the 47, that's more my style.
The 2 examples here may not be well matched, the Spitfire is the much later Griffon engined version which kept the turnrate of the original spitfire but upped the speed, climbrate and power significantly. The P51 we see is the later itteration after it had the Merlin engine fitted, that on its own turned the mustang from mediocre at best to an outstanding aircraft, certainly on par with the Merlin engined spitfires.
The much later Griffon engine Spitfire entered service some 6 months earlier than the P 51 D even the Spitfire Mk IX had better climb rate and acceleration than any P 51.
On the production numbers, one would expect many more surviving Spitfires. However, in the immediate aftermath of WWII, Britain was severely short of every kind of metal so most of them were scrapped.
Thanks for watching and commenting!
Spitfires were obsolete following the start of the jet age so a large proportion were sold to poorer or developing nations or for scrap, but those being scrapped were sometimes sold for the value of the petrol in their fuel tanks rather than the aluminium they were constructed from.
The Spitfire was by far the most important plane because it won the battle of Briton and allowed a staging point to attack Germany. The p51 was by far the most important because it allowed the allies to escort bombers all the way to Berlin and basically wipe out the Luftwaffe. So there you go they were both by far the most important fighter.
Quite right, Jeff.
The Spitfire was important because it did so much, not just the Battle of Britain but Malta, North Africa, Sicily, Italy, France, Belgium, Holland and Germany, by the time the P 51 could fly to Germany the Luftwaffe was already as good as wiped out.
Amazing fighters. While the Spit may have had marginally better performance in certain aspects, the P51s range was the real war winner. The Allies were well served by both but if we had to only have one the P51 would have been it.
Thanks mate
Fortunately the Spitfire was there when it was needed and still the best fighter at the end of the war, the Spitfire had better performance in all aspects, the P 51 only had range.
They were built to do different jobs and both did them well.
Glad I dont have to choose between those two. Both get a 10/10 from me. Thanks for uploading. Enjoyed this video.
Ladies and gentlemen!! Cease this pointless debate! Just sit back and savor the sight, sound and fury of two storied warbirds still in the air!
By God, they are magnificent!!
That's what your freedom sounds like, people.
Lap it up!
Those are 2 very nice birds. 👍👍
Yes thanks watching
If I was a pilot back then, I'd rather be in a P47 Thunderbolt or Bearcat.
Agreed. The last production models of the p47 had as much range with drop tanks as any p51, 33% more firepower, and an ability to take punishment and still bring home the pilot that is unmatched by anything before or since (arguably other than the A10). It was the only plane of the war actually able to Accelerate in a climb, and the air cooled engine meant it could attack ground targets with far less risk of taking a hit to the radiator, damage that always meant it was coming down in some manner however controlled, or not. The thunderbolt (or Jug) was even known to have MULTIPLE cylinders shot out, and still fly all the way home.
Have to disagree about the bearcat, however. Very underpowered, it was a sitting duck and shot down in droves by the Japanese. The Hellcat, on the other hand, had plenty of power and looked remarkably identical to the bearcat. Unfortunately for the Japanese pilots, by the time they realized the hellcat was a new plane they had already lost most of their veteran pilots who followed standard doctrine that allowed them easy victories against the bearcat, but which same doctrine had them getting shot down by hellcats (said doctrine was to climb. Bearcats always stalled out first, allowing a zero it was chasing to nose over and shoot it down, hellcats were able to stick with the zeros, either shooting them down during the climb, or dropping on them after the zero stalled out first.)
@@andystar3417 @ Andy Star I believe you're confusing the Bearcat with the Wildcat.
Totally agree my Dad flew the P47 in WWII, along with the p-40 and P39, and love the P47. He flew both Razorback and tear drop models, liked the bubble top the best.
You might not, Thunderbolt losses were not so good and the Bearcat was not around during the war.
Different planes, different missions however, the Mustang can do the Spitfires job but the Spitfire can't do the Mustang's.
Oh yes it could and out perform the one trick Mustang in every other way.
The Mustang could not be used for air superiority, the Spitfire was used for bomber escort.
Strange to think that the first Spitfires went into service with 2 bladed wooden props, 1000 hp and some fabric covered surfaces! Only 6 years later its become this monster but demonstrably the same design.
Loved these 2 planes. When i was a kid, i went to a Hobby Store and bought a plastic toy Spitfire with a .049 cox motor in it. It had a pair of strings that went from the plane roughly 30 ft to a handle i would hold onto and stand in middle and fly it around circles. I used the school paved parking lot next door to our farm to take off and land. Those were the days.
Awesome memories!
I had a Mustang plastic .049 kit. It was great till the fuel dissolved the plastic and the wings fell off. That would have been around 1968
Nice video, nice quality too. The Merlin engine has a nicer sound (imo) and sounds similar to the Allison, DB and Jumo series. The Griffon has a different cylinder firing order which doesn't sound as good. Actually this is more of a tail chase than a "simulated dogfight."
Thanks
In either a tail chase or dogfight the P 51 would not have a chance.
The P51 is so god damn quick. Love that plane
Thanks mate
The P 51 is slower than the Spitfire.
@@barrierodliffe4155 You seem to be a Spitfire fan so I'll ask you if the Spitfire out performed the Mustang why did the Brits not put belly tanks on them and use them to escort bombers to Germany?
@@williammawk1720
The RAF did use Spitfires with drop tanks and escorted both the RAF and USAAF bombers in 1943 and 1944. I wonder why the only important thing is meant to be escorting USAAF bombers to Germany.
Just to make it clear in 1943 the Spitfire Mk VII flew from Culmhead in Somerset on sweeps over France of over 1,000 miles and escorted bombers almost as far. Even without the drop tank I have a record of a sweep by Spitfire Mk VII's flying a sweep over France, over 620 miles, mostly at low level and at an average speed of over 390 mph.
Just to show how the Spitfire compared to the P 51 I will take a 1942 Spitfire Mk IX and compare it to a 1944 P 51D.
Apart from top speed which the P 51 was faster, acceleration the Spitfire was considerably faster, like ten seconds less from 200 to 350 mph. Rate of climb
P 51 Spitfire
4,800 feet 3,600 ft/min 3,750 ft/min
25,000 feet 2,400 ft/min 3,050 ft/min
time to 20,000 feet 6.8 minutes 5.6 minutes
time to 30,000 feet 10.9 minutes 9.2 minutes
time to 40,000 feet 22.2 minutes 16.6 minutes
service ceiling 41,600 feet 43,400 feet
It gets even more impressive for the Spitfire when you realize the Spitfire performance test was October 1942 and the P 51 D performance test was June 1945
@@barrierodliffe4155 Mustang is faster,check your facts
Clip wing variable pitch spitfire was much more advanced .
All Spitfires from the Mk V on had interchangeable wingtips and they had constant speed props.
Glorious video many thanks "what do I choose?" to watch this video with a BIG SMILE ON MY FACE.
Glad you enjoyed
Spitfire and mustang both had their place in the war but the aircraft that actually defeated the Germans was the p-47 . If I'm going in the combat I want the thunderbolt flies higher faster and has way more armament than both those planes.
The USAAF didn't agree, by war's end 13 out of the 15 USAAF fighter groups were equipped with the P-51.