You could a an adjustable proportioning valve to the front line if you need more bias to the rear than your balance bar will give you. Just thought I would throw that out there in case you need it. I have one mounted in my rear line. I came through the floor pan under the front edge of the driver's seat and back under the car to the rear. That way I can adjust from my seat on the fly.
Thanks, the thing with proportioning valves is that they don't behave linearly. When it kicks in you have a totally different line pressure curve than you had when you started braking. I don't want that surprise on my front brakes. Makes more sense to me on the rears as weight shifts forward you need less rear brakes.
Wow Tom.. simply amazing. You turned this video into something easily explained and an amazing piece of fabrication. Very very well thought out and challenging as there are no plans for this type of application you can work from! Inspiring once again
Thanks Mike, I'm definitely not the first one to do this dual master conversion. Porsche did it in the early 80' with the SC RS. I'm happy with getting all factory features back in it and improve the strength some. Thanks again for watching!
Wow, I’m in awe of your skill set. I don’t have the confidence or skill to take on something this complex. Question; why do you suppose Porsche chose to make the brake pedal arm an L shape, which only increases the moment arm? Is it for foot clearance? Keep up the great work!
Thanks man! I love this techy stuff. I think it's for extra heel clearance. That's one drawback to my pedal. Depending how it's setup you may feel the arm with your heel. Or maybe it's to clear the foot board? That board gives a more finished look to the interior.
Thanks Tom for another great video displaying your skills! Your well known for links to all things related to your projects! Please don't hold out on the Caliper link now...ha ha ha! Kudo's!
@@GarageTimeAutoResto thanks, I'm going to look into them. I have the big reds as an upgrade but need to run 17's most likely with them. Would be great to run 15 or 16's instead.
Knowing you Tom, i'm certain you gave this MUCH thought. I see the value in dual Master cylinders,.but what, in your opinion, is the value of the adjustable stroke link vs. Fluid Valve biasing front to rear of the calipers? Would like to hear your thoughts on Pros & Cons...
Hi James, the biasing valve can only do so much. Actually all they can do is reduce pressure. They can't create pressure, ha ha. So if you look at the pressure curve for the valve it works like normal until you get to a threshold pressure and then it starts to reduce pressure. I'm trying to increase pressure to the rear instead of reduce it. If I installed on the front circuit then I have an unpredictable knee in the pressure curve. That could be dangerous! All the sudden the pressure goes down. It's really not the best way to adjust brake bias. Maybe it makes sense for the back circuit but not the front.
In researching brake systems, I think I came across these from the UK - they look beautiful! ... Alas, they are a bit outside my budget. I, too, picked-up a set of Boxster brakes for a steal and then bought some adapters from Marc Poole Motorsport (now RSR Sports Cars) here in Australia. I'm not even close to fitting them yet. Curious to see how you like them when the time comes.
Cool! I have done a fair bit of analysis on both if you're interested. I think the boxster brakes work best with dual master cylinder as they come heavily front biased. They are good quality and have lots of pad options
@@GarageTimeAutoResto Yeah, I did read a lot about the bias ratios of various brake systems from Bill Verbung's posts on Pelican Parts. I'm convinced you're most certainly right in this regard ... BUT, for the moment, I think I'm prepared to see how it goes - I'm not quite as brave (or skilled) as you when it comes to modifying the pedal box :-)
I wrote my first comment before watching your entire video and now understand WHY the threaded links. I think the clearance issues that concerned you with the Clevis links to the master cylinder push rods could be improved by using Heim Ball Bushings. You can get them from McMaster Carr. They are threaded and have a thinner profile than the clevises you're using.
Hi Tom, done the same thing as you, brought 997 calipers and hadn’t thought about the ABS, so I think I’ll put them on my VW T4 instead. So how come the big outlay on calipers on your budget build 🤑
Plasma cutter? It uses electricity and compressed air, so it's very cheap to operate. There is a consumable tip, but I hardly ever change it. The plasma cutter is faster than cutting discs and you can do curves easily. Plus it's easier to get straight cuts. (With straight edge). Sold yet? Ha ha.
Looks soft? Maybe it's DOM mild steel. I don't rely on special steel properties. Instead the size and shape will be enough. The pedal force is around 80 lbs max and that gets multiplied at the pushrods by 5 or 6. I don't expect that material to permanently bend. By the way the new pivot tube is thicker than stock. The stock material was no harder than the stuff I'm using.
@@GarageTimeAutoResto I'm not a metallurgist, but was concerned about bending, yes, or not visibly being able to see any wearing thru from the inside out. Love the comment, "I'm trying to keep it as original as possible." LOL - Customizing can be awesome. Thanks for sharing the vids. Happy Easter.
Thanks man, It's only metal is my motto😀. I'm an engineer, so I can speak the technical lingo and sometimes I slip into that mode, but I try not to, ha ha.
Like your content. But please at least bolt your vice to piece of plywood and you can clamp it to your table, lol. This would make your life so much easier.
Don't forget to LIKE ---> COMMENT -->. SHARE -->. SUBSCRIBE 😃
TIG course at www.ahhgaragetime.thinkific.com
You could a an adjustable proportioning valve to the front line if you need more bias to the rear than your balance bar will give you. Just thought I would throw that out there in case you need it. I have one mounted in my rear line. I came through the floor pan under the front edge of the driver's seat and back under the car to the rear. That way I can adjust from my seat on the fly.
Thanks, the thing with proportioning valves is that they don't behave linearly. When it kicks in you have a totally different line pressure curve than you had when you started braking. I don't want that surprise on my front brakes. Makes more sense to me on the rears as weight shifts forward you need less rear brakes.
Enjoyed every second of this. Awesome!
Thanks Dave! It was a long one, but I'm happy to get a lot done this week. 😀
Wow Tom.. simply amazing. You turned this video into something easily explained and an amazing piece of fabrication. Very very well thought out and challenging as there are no plans for this type of application you can work from! Inspiring once again
Thanks Mike, I'm definitely not the first one to do this dual master conversion. Porsche did it in the early 80' with the SC RS. I'm happy with getting all factory features back in it and improve the strength some. Thanks again for watching!
Awesome episode Tom, really enjoyed it start to finish, glad you finally got there with your pedal box design!
Thanks Chris, Now I know why everyone else makes a new pedal, ha ha.
@@GarageTimeAutoResto Hahaha
Wow, that pedal box turned out to be a work of art! Love it!
Thanks, I tried to jamb everything into the same box. 10lbs of xxxx in a 5lb box, ha ha.
Wow, I’m in awe of your skill set. I don’t have the confidence or skill to take on something this complex. Question; why do you suppose Porsche chose to make the brake pedal arm an L shape, which only increases the moment arm? Is it for foot clearance? Keep up the great work!
Thanks man! I love this techy stuff. I think it's for extra heel clearance. That's one drawback to my pedal. Depending how it's setup you may feel the arm with your heel. Or maybe it's to clear the foot board? That board gives a more finished look to the interior.
Thanks Tom for another great video displaying your skills! Your well known for links to all things related to your projects! Please don't hold out on the Caliper link now...ha ha ha! Kudo's!
Thanks Shane. I don't have a link, ha ha honestly.
@@GarageTimeAutoResto Ugh... go figure! Where did you get them from again?
I got them from the manufacturer. Check out Tuthill Porsche
Can you share the info on the calipers?
These calipers are amazing. Very well engineered. I can get tech details if you need most likely. They are carbon 12
@@GarageTimeAutoResto thanks, I'm going to look into them.
I have the big reds as an upgrade but need to run 17's most likely with them. Would be great to run 15 or 16's instead.
Cool, they are lighter than big red and turbo brakes I believe!
Knowing you Tom, i'm certain you gave this MUCH thought. I see the value in dual Master cylinders,.but what, in your opinion, is the value of the adjustable stroke link vs. Fluid Valve biasing front to rear of the calipers? Would like to hear your thoughts on Pros & Cons...
Hi James, the biasing valve can only do so much. Actually all they can do is reduce pressure. They can't create pressure, ha ha. So if you look at the pressure curve for the valve it works like normal until you get to a threshold pressure and then it starts to reduce pressure.
I'm trying to increase pressure to the rear instead of reduce it. If I installed on the front circuit then I have an unpredictable knee in the pressure curve. That could be dangerous! All the sudden the pressure goes down. It's really not the best way to adjust brake bias. Maybe it makes sense for the back circuit but not the front.
In researching brake systems, I think I came across these from the UK - they look beautiful! ... Alas, they are a bit outside my budget. I, too, picked-up a set of Boxster brakes for a steal and then bought some adapters from Marc Poole Motorsport (now RSR Sports Cars) here in Australia. I'm not even close to fitting them yet. Curious to see how you like them when the time comes.
Cool! I have done a fair bit of analysis on both if you're interested. I think the boxster brakes work best with dual master cylinder as they come heavily front biased. They are good quality and have lots of pad options
@@GarageTimeAutoResto Yeah, I did read a lot about the bias ratios of various brake systems from Bill Verbung's posts on Pelican Parts. I'm convinced you're most certainly right in this regard ... BUT, for the moment, I think I'm prepared to see how it goes - I'm not quite as brave (or skilled) as you when it comes to modifying the pedal box :-)
I wrote my first comment before watching your entire video and now understand WHY the threaded links. I think the clearance issues that concerned you with the Clevis links to the master cylinder push rods could be improved by using Heim Ball Bushings. You can get them from McMaster Carr. They are threaded and have a thinner profile than the clevises you're using.
I'll take a look, but I they usually aren't threaded. They can't slide on the balance bar. If you find something let me know.
Tom, if you have a Grangers Catalog, look under "Spherical Rod Ends"... you'll find both Male and Female threaded Ball ends... should help you out :)
great video as always.
I appreciate it Grant!
Amazing calipers, such a clean design. Are these commercially available ?
Yeah, they are sold in the UK. Check out Tuthill Porsche
Hi Tom, done the same thing as you, brought 997 calipers and hadn’t thought about the ABS, so I think I’ll put them on my VW T4 instead. So how come the big outlay on calipers on your budget build 🤑
Yep, I'm trying to keep the brakes balanced which is why all the components need to work together as a system.
What is the cost of using a torch to cut metal compared to cut off wheels? More clean up with the torch but cheaper?
Plasma cutter? It uses electricity and compressed air, so it's very cheap to operate. There is a consumable tip, but I hardly ever change it. The plasma cutter is faster than cutting discs and you can do curves easily. Plus it's easier to get straight cuts. (With straight edge). Sold yet? Ha ha.
Like your idea , can you send info on the calipers there Assume thanks
Thanks! Brakes are Carbon 12.
Those brakes are 🤤 🤤 🤤
I know right!
@@GarageTimeAutoResto Can you link them up? What are they?
Check out Tuthill Porsche
www.tuthillporsche.com/product/tuthill-porsche-billet-brake-caliper-set/
Do you plan on heel and toe downshifting?
yes
@@GarageTimeAutoResto when I bought my 911 I was disappointed in the placement of the pedals that would make heel and toe downshifting difficult.
Where can you buy the calipers??
Tuthill Porsche in UK
Q: Is the tube metal strong enough material?... my concern light went off. It looks soft.
Looks soft? Maybe it's DOM mild steel. I don't rely on special steel properties. Instead the size and shape will be enough. The pedal force is around 80 lbs max and that gets multiplied at the pushrods by 5 or 6. I don't expect that material to permanently bend. By the way the new pivot tube is thicker than stock. The stock material was no harder than the stuff I'm using.
@@GarageTimeAutoResto I'm not a metallurgist, but was concerned about bending, yes, or not visibly being able to see any wearing thru from the inside out. Love the comment, "I'm trying to keep it as original as possible." LOL - Customizing can be awesome. Thanks for sharing the vids. Happy Easter.
ruclips.net/video/N2NyxdBNFe0/видео.html
some close ups on F1 master cyls
Thanks, that's a good video
Look at the size of these brakes... very good, I want to put a subaru engine in my beetle ai yes I will need brakes like this hahahahhahah
Yes, a subie beetle sounds like loads of fun!
@@GarageTimeAutoResto yes hahahaha💪😁
I like watching intelligent people doing intelligent things that my intelligence can understand...
Thanks man, It's only metal is my motto😀. I'm an engineer, so I can speak the technical lingo and sometimes I slip into that mode, but I try not to, ha ha.
@@GarageTimeAutoResto the saddest thing is that I am a mechanical engineer as well 😭😭😭😭
Ha ha, you should be helping me
Stuttgart Classic brake?
They might be made by the same manufacturer? Not sure though.
Like your content. But please at least bolt your vice to piece of plywood and you can clamp it to your table, lol. This would make your life so much easier.