If AI which is non-human was involved, wouldn't all these issues have popped up as an issue for the pilots? You know these days SpaceX has full control with AI computers and the pilots can take over if something is wrong and take over.. I get that computers don't know everything if everything inputed does make sense like sensors but that should these days be easer, where's the Gyroscope? Wouldn't that make everything better?
I'm always trying to figure out how badly these ended - here when the names of the pilots were unknown I assumed that the result was not a major news event.
What I really love about Mentour Pilot -- besides the incredibly in-depth research, the animation, the structure, and all the elaboration about aviation and plane mechanics -- is the degree of respect and tact he approaches everyone involved in his videos with. He never goes, "And then this guy made a dumb move because he's stupid." He always extends the utmost empathy and understanding to everyone in his videos. Love this guy. Keep up the good work.
Yes, because he is first and foremost teaching in these videos. It serves no one to assign blame or to pronounce judgements. He always says, “But that didn’t happen.” After thirty years of teaching I can’t tell you how detrimental it is to inject negative emotions and judgements into a learning situation. It’s a real distraction to the learning process.
@@mapleext In such a mission critical sector being over critical and bitchy to fellow pilots while trying to train them is counterproductive. If you lose the trust of your employees in any situation they will start to minimise the occurrance of minor accidents and cover up mistakes and departures from correct procedures. This will eventually lead to a fatal accident.
"And then they discovered the pilot was a flat-earther" Mentour: "Yeah, that pilot was an incredibly stupid dumbfuck and deserved to die." The one exception Mentour Pilot should make to your rule. 🤣
@@jgdooley2003 yes, this! it always frustrates me seeing ppl calling for a pilot's head on a pike, their immediate resignation, even JAIL TIME whenever a mistake is made that could have been dangerous/disastrous... but wasn't. people will lie about and obscure their faults/mistakes if they believe that their career and life as they know it is on the line, which is exactly why pilots (typically, there's always exceptions) DON'T get tarred and feathered even if they made a mistake that had the potential to be REALLY bad. if you know you can be frank with your superiors/employers about an error you made bc your job is still secure, then you're probably not going to think twice about reporting it. if anything, you know that it's important for the safety of ALL to do so, everyone benefits from a culture of empathy and understanding; pilots can get better training and learn from others, and passengers are safer for it. i'm no pilot myself, but i remember how i reacted to anything going wrong, be it a mistake on my part, or even things that definitely weren't my fault but i thought i might get into trouble for anyway: i hid the problem. i lied. struggling with my schoolwork? guess i'll just have to wait until my report card snitches on me. an infected wound? guess i'll just try to take care of it myself and not tell anyone (yes this happened to me, tho i eventually had to fess up, and was surprised when i wasn't immediately grounded or scolded lmao). we're afraid of serious consequences AND the harsh judgement of peers, so it's only logical that we might try to avoid both, even if it's ultimately to our detriment. empathy is so important and i hope one day the people calling for retribution will understand that.
It makes total sense to me. The punk attitude of talking to anyone and about anyone in a disrespectful way, without concern about the implications for people's image, perception of professionalism and feelings, is not welcome where people have appreciation for a productive work or community environment. In fact, expressing ourselves respectfully no matter if we are criticizing or approving someone's actions, was the way we were all raised, and the norm in public communication until social media normalized insulting anyone just because they can't reach us physically. I would immediately unsubscribe from the channel if mockery or disrespect were the chosen way to approach the analysis of incidents, also because that would mean that the creator is trying to cover not being knowledgeable enough with a bad attitude. Gotta love MP
I was in the back of a Cessna when my buddy and I were in flight school. He wasn't trimming properly, so the instructor tossed in the control lock and tossed the trim full nose down. We were at about 3k feet and there was a lot of ocean on the other side of the glass. My buddy still didn't figure it out and I was literally floating in the back of the plane. The instructor pulled the plug at about 500ft. I'll never forget that lesson.
That was incredibly stupid of the instructor. On my flight with the MOT (Canada) instructor to get my license, the flaps came out full in 'cruise' and the plane ballooned in a way I had never felt, fortunately I found what had occurred in a few seconds - the spare plug on his headset cable had pushed the flap button down. I always wondered if he had done that on purpose.
I'm amazed that the tower controller didn't realize that "Pan Pan" call wasn't an emergency call purely based on the tone and the repetition. That sounds like a man on the very edge of panic, and if you've got a pilot calling you up in that state, you should probably assume something has gone terribly wrong.
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 That too, though there is a language issue in play here...though I feel like it would just make the air traffic controller *more* concerned. The "Pan" in that transmission sounds very much like the French "pain" which translates to "bread," and this is an air traffic controller in Quebec and the recordings in the video are *entirely* in French, so to the ATC person who didn't know what the Pan Pan call is could have heard that as "Bread bread bread bread bread bread Air Transat uhh Air Transat 211, Air Transat 211, we have a small problem. We request altitude ahh..above 5000. We request to 10 000 feet, OK?" Which sounds mostly fine but the guy's still stammering and why the heck did he say "bread" 6 times just then. Like I said, seems like something that would make you more concerned, or at least, y'know, somewhat curious.
@@rashkavar But pain doesn't actually sounds like pan. It is sure written in approximately the same way, but pain \pɛ̃\ is pronounced differently (no consonant sound at the end and the vowel is distinct). However, pan \pan\ is pronounced like panne \pan\ in French, which means breakdown and is actually the origin of pan pan.
I’ve been watching your channel for the past 3 months and I must tell you that it is by far the best structured RUclips channel that I’ve ever watched. The quality of the videos are exemplary, the content is concise and always made very interesting and I don’t even mind viewing your sponsor ads included in the content. Even though I am not a pilot I did get my PPL when I was young but your descriptive detail in each video makes it easy for anyone to understand your explanations. The graphics used are clean accurate and visually pleasing giving the viewer the impression that they are actually in the cockpit. It also helps that you are a great story teller. Congratulations on this great channel and looking forward to many more hours of enjoyable viewing.
I have about 15 mins of simulator time. In the late 90s the Air Force introduced a program where new troops get to spend a few days checking out what people of different ranks and careers do so they could get a bigger picture of what we as a service did and how everyone contributed to the mission. Because if this I got to fly.... and crash a b1b on a multi million dollar simulator. Best video game ever.
Sounds like crazy fun. Did you and others find the program helpful with respected to its intended purpose? Did it help people around you appreciate each other more? Just curious
I was an Aircraft Control and Warning Systems Specialist (Tactical Aircraft Control) it was “meet and greet” for “voices over comms” mutually beneficial for all it appeared.
Flew this aircraft for 8 years. It’s has VERY Powerful CF5 engines and I learned very quickly that TOGA power combined with a very light aircraft is actually a very dangerous situation. The pitch up is very strong. A low level off after departure combined with a TOGA thrust demanded power reduction right after T/O otherwise you’re going to bust your altitude or over speed.Even in the sim, the stick forces were high necessitating nose down trim. Great video. Thank you
Hey! Just want to say, I've been watching these incident videos for about a month now but I had never quite understood what trimming an aircraft actually was. The explanations didn't really work with me but wow! this video's breakdown of trimming was just the thing I needed to understand the importance. I know it can be hard to make these topics simple for non-aviation people so I just wanted to share that I thought this really helped me!
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I think these two pilots are heroes, simply for the sheer fact that they turned themselves in and reported the incident when it could have been easily swept under the carpet. Reporting must have involved a shit ton of paperwork and nobody enjoys that, but their honesty and effort helped uncover a major flaw in the training sim and quite possibly saved countless others from an actual crash.
The pilot on the left seat did an armbar on the control column to prevent a lifesaving pitch up movement. He should never fly again, regardless of his honesty in reporting the incident. You don't get to keep flying because you're wholesome when you almost killed everyone with incompetent action and might react that way in the future too.
@@palbi I never said anything about being allowed to fly again or not. I just appreciated the fact that they realised there was a problem and went through all the hassle to file paperwork and figure out the problem rather than just shrug it off as one of the many inexplicable mysteries of life. I work in a hospital and I can tell you, the amount of time things need to be reported but aren't because people just can't be bothered with the paperwork is insane. It gets to the point if you're the one person who keeps reporting stuff, everyone hates your guts and thinks you are being an a**hole
Honestly, after watching the videos on this channel, I come away thinking all pilots are heroes. The amount of effort, skill, and focus required to not get everyone killed is incredible. I had no clue.
@@Cekkaaaaaaaa Yup. Silly indeed. The original sentence wouldn't have made sense. "My dad is Canadian and that TABARNAK ..." What? Friggin' identity politics snowflakes that can't stand letting other people determine their own identities. Hint: Their identity is not about you. And more widely, almost everything is not about you.
@@rmck6830 Calm down, you know that you can be Quebecois and Canadian at the same time right? Or do you also get mad at people who call themselves Californian/Bavarian/Neapolitan/Geordie/etc etc...
Great review ! BTW fun fact : I was ATC in CYQB tower at the time of incident. Not the one working at the exact moment. TSC211 is legendary in the tower. You are a tad nice vs the tower controller...we all know what Pan Pan means.
Thank you so much for covering this I am from Quebec City and worked at the YQB airport before the pandemic. My son also took that flight a few weeks ago when he flew to Paris via Montreal in July. I love how you explain things so everyone can understand. Thank you for doing amazing videos ! ✈️
The only problem with your with your RUclips channel is since I've been watching your uploads over many year's now I find myself pulling plane disaster movies apart saying that's not right that couldn't happen and so on. That's all down to you good Sir with how wonderful you are in your story telling and making the facts easy to understand look forward to many more uploads 😊
Those pilots were both about 10 miles behind the airplane. While the trim issue was a significant factor, they were so far behind the airplane that it was clear they had joined the ranks of the passengers even before they tried to level off and they got themselves into coffin corner where they couldn't get out. They were very lucky.
I subscribed to this channel yesterday; I’m seriously impressed with this gentleman’s ability to walk us through this step by step, making it easy to follow and understand; I like the accent too, lol He has a better command of the English language than most Americans, lol
Maddening to learn that neither pilot paid any attention to the thrust at the start or the trim afterwards. "Didn't want to use the trim and make situation worse". Dude - you're about to fly into the ground it couldn't get much worse tbh
Regarding inattentional deafness, there is a reasonably well-documented case of that for a racing driver and his mechanic/co-driver (who rode in the passenger seat at that time), I believe it was in the Mille Miglia race across Italy. In that situation, the driver lost the ability to hear his co-driver telling him directions (literally the driving directions, of which road to take at intersections and preparations for unseen corners), and so the co-driver started using hand signals. They got that to work, and did much of the race like that. And I believe the team won the race, by a considerable margin. This is particularly interesting because the deafness wasn't a disaster. Instead, they utilized it and adapted their coordination process to include it. I can't find details on the specific year of the race or the driver involved; but I believe it was discussed in an episode of Top Gear years ago.
The volume of the car probably played a part in their issues, and wind noise, if it was open top like many race cars of that era. It’s no wonder the driver hyper focussed, that race in it’s original form was no joke, basically like doing an hours long tarmac rally stage with few breaks.
I'm about to take my first plane ride in 2 weeks at age 61. I'm beyond nervous, but have been watching Peter for about a year now, figuring I'd have to fly as my family now lives across the country. This episode highlights my fear about the mental state of pilots under mental and physical pressure. It's really miraculous that air travel is as safe as it is, and to think that some airlines have discussed having only 1 pilot in the cockpit! 😮 Peter is simply brilliant at helping the lay person understand more about aviation.
As a native french canadian speaker, we are use to hear cockpit recordings in english... But hearing their calls in french... It's just chilling. Great video as always!
I have experienced this kind of being overwhelmed by information overflow while handling an engineering casualty aboard a Navy destroyer. I found that, if you can recognize it is happening, it helps to stop, take a deep breath, and revert to first principles. The deep breath is important. I have been told by a doctor that the deep breath helps to reset your brain chemistry. At that point, you can think clearly enough to start evaluating the situation. It helps if you have a mental checklist to quickly check critical controls such as (in this case), gear, throttle, slats and flaps, engine speed and thrust, trim. Make sure all your settings are correct and then start looking for out of range parameters. To start forming a theory of what is wrong. Unfortunately, this takes time, which these pilots didn’t have.
I’m a doctor and can confirm. Your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are both always active to some degree. Taking deep breaths turns the volume up on your parasympathetic and down on your sympathetic nervous systems, which helps turn down the flight or fight. It also gets more oxygen to your brain. There’s a book a lot of people in medicine reference called The House of God. I personally don’t like it because it’s insanely sexist (it’s supposed to be satire, but it’s a little too much for me), but it has a list of rules that are hilarious. Some of them are very helpful, including rule 3: at a cardiac arrest, the first procedure is to take your own pulse. It reminds us to take some deep breaths, calm down, and then address the situation.
The amount and quality of training is so important in this aspect. I found, during both my army and, latterly, police service, that when I got into one of those critical situations, training took over and I just almost automatically kicked into "mental/muscle memory mode" without even consciously realising it. If you haven't received enough quality training, there is nothing to fall back on in such critical situations and that's when it really starts to go downhill fast!
There is something profoundly unsettling about the calm, controlled delivery of Mentour Pilot, combined with the subtle sound design that heightens my anticipation and dread. It is a masterclass in documentary filmmaking.
Even though I'm a swede I love hearing the Québec french language. Coolest language I've ever heard. I wish I would be able to speak it one day. During a wisit in Notre dame du nord Québec I can confirm that the word "Tabarnak" was used a lot there.
Feel free to tell me I am wrong.....I think flying an aeroplane requires a lot of technical understanding, but there is a difference between understanding and aptitude, for sure technical aspects are explained to pilots but how much of it do they 'fully' grasp. Surely international understanding of terms has to conform has to conform to one standard ! Thank you for another in depth, well presented explanation.
Just the fact that a flight with an instructor onboard misinterpreting the rules for runway visuals and then allowing a false take off speed calculation is outrageous, I will never understand people's willingness to risk their own lives (and others) from sheer impatience or laziness. This kind of behaviour in an instructor of all people is disturbing.
I too felt like there was a lot of corner cutting going on with these two and that is a death knell. I hope I never fly with pilots who do that. Procedures exist for a reason.
I disagree that this captain can be retrained to become safe. He instinctively reacted in a manner that almost killed everyone on board by preventing the control column from coming back.
Having gone through NavCan training in the mid-90's, I can confirm that the term PAN PAN and it's meaning was taught. If the tower controller failed to understand it then perhaps that's a function of being in the job for a long time and never hearing the call. Maybe it's an incredibly rare call at an airport. Urgent situations that are possible emergencies during take-off or landing are probably just handled as emergencies. If you are close to the ground and don't have the luxury of time to consider whether it's really a mayday or not, just call mayday out of an abundance of caution.
This is one of my favorite pages I follow and I’m not even a pilot. People never truly appreciate what pilots are doing to get us to our destination safely. You need merchandise
As a professional simulation development engineer, in a very different industry... hearing about "negative training" in this incident is tough. There's a saying, "All models are wrong, and some models are useful." Any sort of simulator... it's NEVER going to be 100% representative of reality, and it's so important to understand and clearly communicate both what it's good for and what it's NOT good for. Otherwise it's so easy to practice bad habits and wrong responses.
It remembers to Independent Air Flight 1851 where the Pilots were trained in the Simulator to ignore GPWS-Alarms - what they did then during a real Approach with the result of crashing the Aircraft and killing all on board.
SUPERLATIVE video. Like many others, until I heard "The captain later stated" I was fully convinced they had bought the farm. After watching tenths of your videos, this one made me subscribe!
The quality of animation is incredibly high, and your narration is thorough and easily understood. Good work as always. You and your team are appreciated.
Peter, you’ll be pleased to know that your name & channel was mentioned at Flightsim 2024 in Las Vegas. It was mentioned as an excellent tool on knowing what not to do and how to forgo problems in different phases of flight.. thank you for all you do for the industry.
I often do my everyday work and imagine that your voice starts narrating that i forgot something trivial in a chain of labor that will end up causing some giant disaster in our labs
Why would an airplane, especially if it has electric trim, be designed in a way that the pilot would lack the strength to over come a full trim? There have been several cases where a malfunction has caused a run-a-trim. If the pilot would be unable to overcome a full trim setting, then that run-a-way trim would be a single point failure.
It's because the elevators are actually on the horizontal stabilizer (the big thing on the tail plane that moves when you trim). So when they move, the elevators that are attached to them move as well. Sure, you could argue that the maximum angle of the horizontal stabilizer should then be more restricted. But then you could end up in situations where you are out of trim at certain speeds and altitudes which isn't very nice for the pilots. The other option would then be to make the elevators longer. But then you end up with an airplane with very sensitive pitch controls which also isn't a very good solution. Edit: I should also add that there are other things that can be done, like moving the whole tail further from the center of lift to create more leverage. That would then cause a whole host of other problems. Like with so many things in engineering it's about finding a balance.
It should also be noted that the question as written could be read to imply that a runaway trim cannot be dealt with unless the elevators are able to overpower the stabilizer. That is not true. There should always be a manual backup that takes precedence over the electrical trim that would allow the pilots to trim the aircraft without the use of electrical trim.
Pilots are trying to recognize runaway trim, and deal with it before it’s a problem. I know it can happen relatively quickly, but still. Maybe as a final protection, sure, but surprise trim I don’t think would be that helpful. There are always options to trim manually.
Seems like it might be a good idea to have the CVR NEVER delete at the end of a flight.. It would seem somewhat straightforward to save these off to an aircraft based solid state drive, then at regular intervals that drive can get synchronised to an airport based server which would keep all of these for future reference. I could imagine pilots not liking this..... but there could be value for pilots in looking at issues in their flying or even their cockpit interactions..... Be interested to hear what others think
I'm a new to your channel but I'm excited with the quality of your content, Peter! I'm a nervous flyer and hope that your channel could help me to reduce the anxiety. And now I'm so in love with aviation that I decided to go to a simulator to try in taking off, flying and landing.
The BIGGEST 'Takeaway' for this video is: "Once you become an 'Instructor' don't become so self-important or take your evaluation duties so seriously that you become useless & unhelpful!"
I absolutely adore this channel. Everything explained in a way that's easy to understand, presented in a professional manner. Students learning from Captain Hörnfeldt are the luckiest people on this planet!
@@MentourPilot to me the Tetris analogy is a great example of your unique knack of storytelling. I hope you will use it again! I look forward to hearing you say “my regular viewers will know that I often liken these situations to the final seconds of a game of Tetris …”
The complexities here are remarkable. Amazing what pilots have to learn, and to operate in these complicated machines and maneuvers. Phew. Impressive explaining of all this, wow.
I think "pilot induced" errors are more common than we think. With the advantages of planes being automated, I this can cause the pilots to rely on the plane instead of their own knowledge.
Somatogravic illusion. Every time I get on an airplane and when the pilots begin their takeoff roll, it always feels like *and looks like* the airplane is in a pitch up configuration, even when the airplane is still well below the speed needed to get airborne. I've mentioned this to people in passing, and they just don't seem to get it. So I'm glad to hear that I'm not just crazy, that somatogravic illusion is a real thing, and I'm glad to know there's actually a term for that sensation.
@robertgantry2118 Agreed, I love it because it actually looks like the whole front of the plane is sticking up in the air and you are looking uphill even though you can still feel the wheels rolling on the ground. That said, I hate when they stop accelerating during the climb out and it feels like you drop about 30 feet 😅
You would think that there would be a highly noticeable notice if the trim ever hit maximum in either direction? If the only way you can verify what the trim setting is is by looking down at the wheels themselves, it seems as if there is a problem somewhere?
Is it just me or does anyone else think cockpits are waaaaaaaaaaaay too complicated. All the different dials, modes, signals, sensors. It's too much isn't it.
@@MentourPilot I also love this channel and learn so much from you 🏆🔥🎰 I'm agape over the documents you referenced at 35:30 being marked "TOP SECRET" 🤯🤯😱😱 isn't that basically concealment of critical information that the aviation community needed? 🫣 😰
“Things were about to get worse” was used in this episode more than most I remember. This should be a training video on things NOT to do. I feel great sympathy for the cabin crew and passengers.
Great video. It's crazy to realize the difference between what I perceive panic to be based on the storytelling vs. actually hearing it through that accidental radio broadcast. Crazy scary.
So, the instructor pilot was the monitoring pilot who did not monitor and did not instruct. No V call, no gear up, brilliant. How about a visual sweep thru the pedestal? Sorry but this two guys did too much errors for a professional pilot. We talk here about a Captain and an Instructor, how do Rookies fly in this company???
Yep. The CRM here seems to have been a major issue. Pilot feeling he has to cope and not ask for any help not volunteered, and instructor thinking he's checking out the piot, so needs to back off and let the pilot sort everything out. Both of them would probably have done better if they had been a normal crew. Seems like they need a briefing in any situation like this, where they both agee that is is ok to call "uncle" if either feels safety is becoming compromised, so they can work together in the regular more open and communicative way to resolve the situation.
RVR in Canada is in feet. So normal IFR takeoff requires 1/2 mile visibility or close to 2600 RVR. RVO Takeoff requires 1200 RVR (1200 feet). LVO Takeoff requires RVR 600 (600 feet). In my airline, Captains can do LVO (600 RVR) and First Officers can do RVO (1200 RVR) but for either of those the Captain must have 100 hours PIC. So not until they have 100 hours actually in command of the real aircraft. So the meter references in the video should be feet. RVO is Reduced Visibility Operations and LVO is Low Visibility Operations.
This account has made me so terrified of flying lol. Before this, I thought any kind of plane incident was extremely rare, exclusive to sketchy developing country airlines or from a long time ago. I didn’t realise just how many accidents and deaths there were and recent too. I know, I know, it’s still statistically safer than driving, but still 😭
It's like watching "worst serial killers in the world", it doesn't mean there's lots of serial killers out there or that you are likely to become a victim
@@MentourPilot And yet you find at least one incident every two weeks to investigate. There was plenty of information to unpack even from an incident rather than an accident. I'm so pleased that this incident did not result in a hull loss or the loss of human lives!
Similar thing happened at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant. Many things went wrong, but the main issue was that the operators had a completely wrong mental picture due to a flaw in the simulator they were trained on. They were convinced that the coolant level is too high, when in reality it was too low. And a similar situation happened at Davis-Besse a few months earlier, but there the shift manager could reason out the problem and stopped the disaster. Unfortunately this information wasn't communicated to other plants.
When I saw that you were doing this flight, I literally made a bowl of popcorn to watch it. Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, it did. I am glad they're both ok, it could have ended so much differently.
I find these videos highly interesting, and educational. It is mind blowing what pilots need to be able to cope with, especially in non-standard situations. I keep wondering though, how much of this translates to military fighter jets. Fighters being built for g-forces beyond human abilities, thrust to weight way over 1:1, most now unstable by design, etc. would you consider bringing on some ex military pilots and discuss publicly available events? I don’t want this to become a military channel at all, but I am unaware of a similar channel for military flight operations. Closest topic may be: how does a fully loaded C-5m handle vs a fully loaded a-380?
Wow many many thanks to Mentour Pilot for teaching us how to do things like trimming an Airbus. As I comment here I just saw on CNN an ATR 72 crashed in Brasil. Because of watching videos like this I can speculate that the airplane entered an aerodynamic stall and did not immediately execute the stall recovery procedure to lower the nose thus decreasing the angle of attack and regainging control so the plane dropped out the sky in one minute.
I appreciate how much time and energy goes into researching and making these videos. The technical details I sure make it easy for someone in your business to understand, however myself who knows very little about flying is able to follow along for the most part. Great story telling abilities. Love the breakdown.
I finally clearly got what ‘out of trim’ means… Thank you so much for that and for telling all those stories with such level of details and deepness! in fact there is so much more behind the picture provided by AirCrash Inverstigation series… Wish you all the best and kindest regards
Assuming they knew what had happened. Somatographic illusion would also operate with them, giving them the impression that the plane was being pushed up and up and up... even when it was diving (but continuing to accelerate). Not having a front view probably was merciful for them. "Man, this thing has taken off like a rocket for the longest time...."
As always, exceptional review of this incident. Passengers never really know what is happening in the cockpit. Scary! Thank you for the video. Blessings to you and stay safe.
Dude you are better than Netflix- I’ve never had any motivation of becoming a pilot and I have severe flight anxiety but your videos are both so well written, spoken, and edited that I don’t get worried when I fly now. You and green dot aviation are doing gods work
I can still hear my flight instructor 30 years after the fact -- "DON'T FLY THE F***ING AIRPLANE WITH THE TRIM CONTROL!" 😂 I always had a bad habit of doing that. I'd use the electric trim control to make the airplane do what I wanted instead of using the yoke first then trimming off the excess force. I don't know why that habit was so hard to break, but it seemed to take me forever to get over it.
Wow. I was sure they weren't going to make it. I'm so glad that habit (trim adjust) and the aircraft itself got this under control in time to not hit the ground. Thanks for the information! If I ever get to be a pilot, I'll be so much safer because of you.
I don't watch series. I prefer binge-watching Mentour Pilot videos! Everything is top notch, Petter! I even watch your ads with so much attention ❤ you have a great team helping you, and also I want to be that excellent as you are.
1) Airbus systems saves so many videos I question if you are sponsered by them 2) I just cannot imagine going through all that and then going "ok, I think we should continue with the flight"... but I guess I get not wanting to go anywhere near the ground atm, and especially not land while still in the state of mind that lead you to that situation to begin with
As I watched this scenario unfold, the old adage of, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." The variation of this, at least to me, is "I'm automation and I'm here to help." Yes, automation is a great assistance to pilots, especially complex and large airplanes. Yet we have many incidents and accidents related to pilots' use of automation and not fully understanding it, The FAA and the NTSB have addressed the concern that pilots lose their basic stick and rudder skills when their companies SOP's are focused on using them to the max to save fuel costs.
Can easily relate how easy it is to get over whelmed. I was in an unfamiliar type of shower and quickly went from freezing cold to scalding, managed to level off the temperature
Hi Petter! It's been a while since I sent a quick "hello" message justo say how much I've been enjoying and learning from your work for several years now. For no particular reason. I decided that tonight's the night to just say "Hi" and wish you and your family all the best that life has to offer. A nd that's it! Short and sweet. You have my admiration and "bon ami", Petter. Stay well and careful and (of course this is just my own prejudice) may God guide your hands, heart and mind for many many many years od flying and teaching. Your friend- Gordon S Raskin MD Near Berkeley, CA, USA
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Both of those aircrew will never forget that incident. Under the circumstances, they were very fortunate to be able to keep the aircraft flying.
My barber was like, "Do you need a haircut?"
I said, "No only a trim!:
@@RWBHere😊😊
If AI which is non-human was involved, wouldn't all these issues have popped up as an issue for the pilots? You know these days SpaceX has full control with AI computers and the pilots can take over if something is wrong and take over.. I get that computers don't know everything if everything inputed does make sense like sensors but that should these days be easer, where's the Gyroscope? Wouldn't that make everything better?
Your RVR values are wrong. Cpt are authorized to 600 rvr (feets not meters) and FO 1200 rvr. In Canada and USA rvr are reported usually in feets.
Hearing "the captain later stated" when I'm fully assuming a crash is the best feeling!
Yes. It was at that point I realised that, despite appearances, there was at least one survivor. :)
I was also very glad to hear that remark from Petter
However, he purposely delayed it for drama.
Me to
I'm always trying to figure out how badly these ended - here when the names of the pilots were unknown I assumed that the result was not a major news event.
My relief when I heard, "the captain later said..." was immeasurable.😥
What I really love about Mentour Pilot -- besides the incredibly in-depth research, the animation, the structure, and all the elaboration about aviation and plane mechanics -- is the degree of respect and tact he approaches everyone involved in his videos with. He never goes, "And then this guy made a dumb move because he's stupid." He always extends the utmost empathy and understanding to everyone in his videos. Love this guy. Keep up the good work.
Yes, because he is first and foremost teaching in these videos. It serves no one to assign blame or to pronounce judgements. He always says, “But that didn’t happen.” After thirty years of teaching I can’t tell you how detrimental it is to inject negative emotions and judgements into a learning situation. It’s a real distraction to the learning process.
@@mapleext In such a mission critical sector being over critical and bitchy to fellow pilots while trying to train them is counterproductive. If you lose the trust of your employees in any situation they will start to minimise the occurrance of minor accidents and cover up mistakes and departures from correct procedures. This will eventually lead to a fatal accident.
"And then they discovered the pilot was a flat-earther"
Mentour: "Yeah, that pilot was an incredibly stupid dumbfuck and deserved to die."
The one exception Mentour Pilot should make to your rule. 🤣
@@jgdooley2003 yes, this! it always frustrates me seeing ppl calling for a pilot's head on a pike, their immediate resignation, even JAIL TIME whenever a mistake is made that could have been dangerous/disastrous... but wasn't. people will lie about and obscure their faults/mistakes if they believe that their career and life as they know it is on the line, which is exactly why pilots (typically, there's always exceptions) DON'T get tarred and feathered even if they made a mistake that had the potential to be REALLY bad. if you know you can be frank with your superiors/employers about an error you made bc your job is still secure, then you're probably not going to think twice about reporting it. if anything, you know that it's important for the safety of ALL to do so, everyone benefits from a culture of empathy and understanding; pilots can get better training and learn from others, and passengers are safer for it.
i'm no pilot myself, but i remember how i reacted to anything going wrong, be it a mistake on my part, or even things that definitely weren't my fault but i thought i might get into trouble for anyway: i hid the problem. i lied. struggling with my schoolwork? guess i'll just have to wait until my report card snitches on me. an infected wound? guess i'll just try to take care of it myself and not tell anyone (yes this happened to me, tho i eventually had to fess up, and was surprised when i wasn't immediately grounded or scolded lmao). we're afraid of serious consequences AND the harsh judgement of peers, so it's only logical that we might try to avoid both, even if it's ultimately to our detriment. empathy is so important and i hope one day the people calling for retribution will understand that.
It makes total sense to me. The punk attitude of talking to anyone and about anyone in a disrespectful way, without concern about the implications for people's image, perception of professionalism and feelings, is not welcome where people have appreciation for a productive work or community environment. In fact, expressing ourselves respectfully no matter if we are criticizing or approving someone's actions, was the way we were all raised, and the norm in public communication until social media normalized insulting anyone just because they can't reach us physically. I would immediately unsubscribe from the channel if mockery or disrespect were the chosen way to approach the analysis of incidents, also because that would mean that the creator is trying to cover not being knowledgeable enough with a bad attitude. Gotta love MP
I was in the back of a Cessna when my buddy and I were in flight school. He wasn't trimming properly, so the instructor tossed in the control lock and tossed the trim full nose down. We were at about 3k feet and there was a lot of ocean on the other side of the glass. My buddy still didn't figure it out and I was literally floating in the back of the plane. The instructor pulled the plug at about 500ft. I'll never forget that lesson.
That was incredibly stupid of the instructor. On my flight with the MOT (Canada) instructor to get my license, the flaps came out full in 'cruise' and the plane ballooned in a way I had never felt, fortunately I found what had occurred in a few seconds - the spare plug on his headset cable had pushed the flap button down. I always wondered if he had done that on purpose.
I'm amazed that the tower controller didn't realize that "Pan Pan" call wasn't an emergency call purely based on the tone and the repetition. That sounds like a man on the very edge of panic, and if you've got a pilot calling you up in that state, you should probably assume something has gone terribly wrong.
wouldn't you expect at least "what do you mean by pan pan"?
@@SeekingTheLoveThatGodMeans7648 That too, though there is a language issue in play here...though I feel like it would just make the air traffic controller *more* concerned. The "Pan" in that transmission sounds very much like the French "pain" which translates to "bread," and this is an air traffic controller in Quebec and the recordings in the video are *entirely* in French, so to the ATC person who didn't know what the Pan Pan call is could have heard that as "Bread bread bread bread bread bread Air Transat uhh Air Transat 211, Air Transat 211, we have a small problem. We request altitude ahh..above 5000. We request to 10 000 feet, OK?"
Which sounds mostly fine but the guy's still stammering and why the heck did he say "bread" 6 times just then. Like I said, seems like something that would make you more concerned, or at least, y'know, somewhat curious.
@@rashkavar But pain doesn't actually sounds like pan. It is sure written in approximately the same way, but pain \pɛ̃\ is pronounced differently (no consonant sound at the end and the vowel is distinct). However, pan \pan\ is pronounced like panne \pan\ in French, which means breakdown and is actually the origin of pan pan.
Peter explained it .They didn't use that term in North America..But indeed the tower controller should realized that there something wrong
@@Adam-bf9zz Exactly -- the controller would have though the pilot was saying "breakdown, breakdown", not "bread, bread".
I’ve been watching your channel for the past 3 months and I must tell you that it is by far the best structured RUclips channel that I’ve ever watched. The quality of the videos are exemplary, the content is concise and always made very interesting and I don’t even mind viewing your sponsor ads included in the content. Even though I am not a pilot I did get my PPL when I was young but your descriptive detail in each video makes it easy for anyone to understand your explanations. The graphics used are clean accurate and visually pleasing giving the viewer the impression that they are actually in the cockpit. It also helps that you are a great story teller. Congratulations on this great channel and looking forward to many more hours of enjoyable viewing.
Thank you so much for that lovely comment, it makes me super happy to hear that you see it this way. 💕
💯... couldn't have put it better myself, respect to you sir.
Spot on!
I agree
Fully agree with your comment ❤❤❤
I have about 15 mins of simulator time. In the late 90s the Air Force introduced a program where new troops get to spend a few days checking out what people of different ranks and careers do so they could get a bigger picture of what we as a service did and how everyone contributed to the mission.
Because if this I got to fly.... and crash a b1b on a multi million dollar simulator. Best video game ever.
I still have fond memories of D.M.’s A-10 simulator, afterwards I was sweaty in places I never could.
I assume they noted it and never offered you a pilot role? 😅
Sounds like crazy fun. Did you and others find the program helpful with respected to its intended purpose? Did it help people around you appreciate each other more? Just curious
I was an Aircraft Control and Warning Systems Specialist (Tactical Aircraft Control) it was “meet and greet” for “voices over comms” mutually beneficial for all it appeared.
(bro we're dealing with an international audience here, dont reinforce stereotypes about american defaultism not specifying "US Air Force!" 😅)
This whole case was just a horrible case of "but wait, there's more."
Over and over… When will it end?
Flew this aircraft for 8 years. It’s has VERY Powerful CF5 engines and I learned very quickly that TOGA power combined with a very light aircraft is actually a very dangerous situation. The pitch up is very strong. A low level off after departure combined with a TOGA thrust demanded power reduction right after T/O otherwise you’re going to bust your altitude or over speed.Even in the sim, the stick forces were high necessitating nose down trim. Great video. Thank you
100% 🎯
CF5? I’m sure they would be VERY powerful. If they existed at all - which they don’t.
The CF6 was pretty powerful too…
Just sayin’.
@@Klink330 Good job dude.
@@Klink330But is it necessary to be a raving douchebag when correcting someone? Just askin'
@@Klink330 c'mon ...was clearly a typo
Hey! Just want to say, I've been watching these incident videos for about a month now but I had never quite understood what trimming an aircraft actually was. The explanations didn't really work with me but wow! this video's breakdown of trimming was just the thing I needed to understand the importance. I know it can be hard to make these topics simple for non-aviation people so I just wanted to share that I thought this really helped me!
Every time I think your animation ain't getting any better. It just gets better somehow. Keep up the good work.
heavy breathing and the look like they were about to vomit was quite fitting
@@damienjeremyweir4543 yep😅
I was looking at the animation thinking "Mentour's got that wrong, surely the gear should be up by now..."
the animated pilots look like they're going to faint any second
I think the animation for that specific video should look like the Quebecois animations "Têtes à claques + pilotes d'avion".
“Didn’t know what a Pan Pan call was”
I can feel the frustration all the way in Scotland
Is it foggy and rainy today?
@@senorpepper3405 It's sunny and warm here in England - pretty sure it is for those North of the border also.
@tisme1105 here in the American Midwest we're looking at 35c(95f). I'll trade ya.
@@senorpepper3405 nah you're good. Thanks :)
My nose trimmed up hearing that :O
Possibly unpopular opinion, but I think these two pilots are heroes, simply for the sheer fact that they turned themselves in and reported the incident when it could have been easily swept under the carpet. Reporting must have involved a shit ton of paperwork and nobody enjoys that, but their honesty and effort helped uncover a major flaw in the training sim and quite possibly saved countless others from an actual crash.
As stated, at that point they didn’t know they were the ones drilling holes in the cheese
The pilot on the left seat did an armbar on the control column to prevent a lifesaving pitch up movement.
He should never fly again, regardless of his honesty in reporting the incident. You don't get to keep flying because you're wholesome when you almost killed everyone with incompetent action and might react that way in the future too.
@@palbi I never said anything about being allowed to fly again or not. I just appreciated the fact that they realised there was a problem and went through all the hassle to file paperwork and figure out the problem rather than just shrug it off as one of the many inexplicable mysteries of life. I work in a hospital and I can tell you, the amount of time things need to be reported but aren't because people just can't be bothered with the paperwork is insane. It gets to the point if you're the one person who keeps reporting stuff, everyone hates your guts and thinks you are being an a**hole
Honestly, after watching the videos on this channel, I come away thinking all pilots are heroes. The amount of effort, skill, and focus required to not get everyone killed is incredible.
I had no clue.
My dad is Quebecois and that TABARNAK at the beginning recorder hit so hard calice
Yup, I live in Montréal, clicked on the video and had whiplash upon hearing Tabarnak!
@@rmck6830 "my father is from new York" "your father Is american, stop pretending you're anything other than that". See? You sound silly
@@Cekkaaaaaaaa Yup. Silly indeed. The original sentence wouldn't have made sense. "My dad is Canadian and that TABARNAK ..." What? Friggin' identity politics snowflakes that can't stand letting other people determine their own identities. Hint: Their identity is not about you. And more widely, almost everything is not about you.
@@rmck6830 Calm down, you know that you can be Quebecois and Canadian at the same time right? Or do you also get mad at people who call themselves Californian/Bavarian/Neapolitan/Geordie/etc etc...
@@rmck6830Do you think the average person from Vancouver or Calgary or Winnipeg has a visceral response to "tabarnak"?
“Tabarnak!! Osti kossé qui s’passe!!!”. That’s the most Québec opening ever 😂. And good timing for the vidéo as well, bonne Fête Nationale!!
😂
Excellent timing en effet 🤣
Excellente temporalité
RUclips offers to translate this to English! It says “Tabarnak!! Osti kossé what’s happening!!!” I hope everyone finds that helpful ;).
Yesss how ''a propos''indeed!
Great review ! BTW fun fact : I was ATC in CYQB tower at the time of incident. Not the one working at the exact moment. TSC211 is legendary in the tower. You are a tad nice vs the tower controller...we all know what Pan Pan means.
Cool! As-tu des détails supplémentaires que tu pourrais donner sur cet incident?
Do you have any speculation about why that particular controller might not have known what Pan Pan means?
@@dominiquemichaud7945 Je preferes en rester la publiquement.
@@dominiquemichaud7945
Thank you so much for covering this I am from Quebec City and worked at the YQB airport before the pandemic. My son also took that flight a few weeks ago when he flew to Paris via Montreal in July. I love how you explain things so everyone can understand. Thank you for doing amazing videos ! ✈️
The only problem with your with your RUclips channel is since I've been watching your uploads over many year's now I find myself pulling plane disaster movies apart saying that's not right that couldn't happen and so on. That's all down to you good Sir with how wonderful you are in your story telling and making the facts easy to understand look forward to many more uploads 😊
Those pilots were both about 10 miles behind the airplane. While the trim issue was a significant factor, they were so far behind the airplane that it was clear they had joined the ranks of the passengers even before they tried to level off and they got themselves into coffin corner where they couldn't get out. They were very lucky.
mb de imprimir e 😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😅😊em 😊😊😊😊😅😅é 😊😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊parabéns e 😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😅parabéns 😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😊😊😅😊😊😊😅😊parabéns 😅😊😅😊😊😊😅😅😊😅😊😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅parabéns 😅😅😅😊😊😅😅😅😅😅parabéns 😊😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😅parabéns 😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅parabéns 😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅😅😊😅parabéns e 😊😅😅😅😅😊😅😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😅😅😊😊parabéns 😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😊😅😅😅😅😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😊😅😅😅😊parabéns 😊😅😅😅😅😊Parabéns 😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅parabéns 😊😊😊😊😅😅😊😊parabéns e 😅😅😊😅😅😊😊😊é 😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅em 😊😊😊😊😊😊o 😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😊😊😅😊parabéns 😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅parabéns 😊e Aceitar 😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊é o 😊😊😅😊😊😊😊é 😅😅o novo 😊😊😅😅😅😅😊😊o 😊😅😅😊o 😊que acabaram 😊as 😊😅😅Crianças 😅😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊e a 😊😊😊😊😅😅😊a 😊😊😊é preciso 😊😊😊😅😅de 😊nos lo 😊largo 😊😊😊não 😊😅😅😅😊😊é 😊😊😅😊😊a 😊😅😅😅em 😅😊😊o 😊😊😅😅😅😊😊😅😊😊😅😅😅o 😊de 😊😊😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😊o 😅😅😊😊😅😅😅😅o 😊do 😊Gerês 😊😊😅😅a 😅😅😅de 😊😅que 😅😅😅é 😅😊por 😊😊😊😊😅😅😅que 😅😊😊😊😊o novo modelo 😊😊da 😅😅😅sala 😅😊😊😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊o 😊que 😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊😊😊o 😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😅o 😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅em 😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅é 😅😅😅😅😊😅😊😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊parabéns e 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅😅😊😊😊😊😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😅😅Parabéns 😅
😅
😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😊😊😅😅😊😅😅😅😅😅😅😊😅
9:50 😅😊😊😅😅
😊😊😊😊😊😅😊😊😊))😊😊😊))😊😊😊)) 😊))😊😊😊)😊😊😊)))) 😊conformidade)😊) 😊😊)😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊) a tinta))😊😊)😊))😊😊)😊😊))😊
I subscribed to this channel yesterday;
I’m seriously impressed with this gentleman’s ability to walk us through this step by step, making it easy to follow and understand;
I like the accent too, lol
He has a better command of the English language than most Americans, lol
Thank you and welcome to the channel!
Maddening to learn that neither pilot paid any attention to the thrust at the start or the trim afterwards. "Didn't want to use the trim and make situation worse". Dude - you're about to fly into the ground it couldn't get much worse tbh
Regarding inattentional deafness, there is a reasonably well-documented case of that for a racing driver and his mechanic/co-driver (who rode in the passenger seat at that time), I believe it was in the Mille Miglia race across Italy. In that situation, the driver lost the ability to hear his co-driver telling him directions (literally the driving directions, of which road to take at intersections and preparations for unseen corners), and so the co-driver started using hand signals.
They got that to work, and did much of the race like that. And I believe the team won the race, by a considerable margin.
This is particularly interesting because the deafness wasn't a disaster. Instead, they utilized it and adapted their coordination process to include it.
I can't find details on the specific year of the race or the driver involved; but I believe it was discussed in an episode of Top Gear years ago.
The volume of the car probably played a part in their issues, and wind noise, if it was open top like many race cars of that era. It’s no wonder the driver hyper focussed, that race in it’s original form was no joke, basically like doing an hours long tarmac rally stage with few breaks.
"Does your plane need a haircut?"
"No. Just a trim."
Boo. 😜
@@jimmyzhao2673 It was either that or a bad joke about my attitude.
Lolol
Bravo! Bravo!
Where does your plane go for trimming?
Hairforce One!
I'm about to take my first plane ride in 2 weeks at age 61. I'm beyond nervous, but have been watching Peter for about a year now, figuring I'd have to fly as my family now lives across the country. This episode highlights my fear about the mental state of pilots under mental and physical pressure. It's really miraculous that air travel is as safe as it is, and to think that some airlines have discussed having only 1 pilot in the cockpit! 😮 Peter is simply brilliant at helping the lay person understand more about aviation.
I hope you have a wonderful flight.
@@maryeckel9682 Thank you so much! 😊
Hey learn much and enjoy it wish i could fly a airplane,but cant afford it and i fear height
@danitamccree3716 Thank you! I'm also afraid of heights but making this trip to see family that I haven't seen since the pandemic.
Hey, I hope you had a good flight.
As a native french canadian speaker, we are use to hear cockpit recordings in english... But hearing their calls in french... It's just chilling.
Great video as always!
I have experienced this kind of being overwhelmed by information overflow while handling an engineering casualty aboard a Navy destroyer. I found that, if you can recognize it is happening, it helps to stop, take a deep breath, and revert to first principles. The deep breath is important. I have been told by a doctor that the deep breath helps to reset your brain chemistry. At that point, you can think clearly enough to start evaluating the situation. It helps if you have a mental checklist to quickly check critical controls such as (in this case), gear, throttle, slats and flaps, engine speed and thrust, trim. Make sure all your settings are correct and then start looking for out of range parameters. To start forming a theory of what is wrong. Unfortunately, this takes time, which these pilots didn’t have.
Absolutely! Great points
I’m a doctor and can confirm. Your sympathetic and parasympathetic nervous systems are both always active to some degree. Taking deep breaths turns the volume up on your parasympathetic and down on your sympathetic nervous systems, which helps turn down the flight or fight. It also gets more oxygen to your brain.
There’s a book a lot of people in medicine reference called The House of God. I personally don’t like it because it’s insanely sexist (it’s supposed to be satire, but it’s a little too much for me), but it has a list of rules that are hilarious. Some of them are very helpful, including rule 3: at a cardiac arrest, the first procedure is to take your own pulse. It reminds us to take some deep breaths, calm down, and then address the situation.
Hard to port!
Take in the breath, hold it for a five count, then slowly exhale. Repeat until calm is restored
The amount and quality of training is so important in this aspect. I found, during both my army and, latterly, police service, that when I got into one of those critical situations, training took over and I just almost automatically kicked into "mental/muscle memory mode" without even consciously realising it. If you haven't received enough quality training, there is nothing to fall back on in such critical situations and that's when it really starts to go downhill fast!
There is something profoundly unsettling about the calm, controlled delivery of Mentour Pilot, combined with the subtle sound design that heightens my anticipation and dread. It is a masterclass in documentary filmmaking.
WTF? Put it back in your pants.
Even though I'm a swede I love hearing the Québec french language. Coolest language I've ever heard. I wish I would be able to speak it one day. During a wisit in Notre dame du nord Québec I can confirm that the word "Tabarnak" was used a lot there.
Feel free to tell me I am wrong.....I think flying an aeroplane requires a lot of technical understanding, but there is a difference between understanding and aptitude, for sure technical aspects are explained to pilots but how much of it do they 'fully' grasp.
Surely international understanding of terms has to conform has to conform to one standard !
Thank you for another in depth, well presented explanation.
The chills i get whenever Peter says “And now things start to happen very quickly”
Just the fact that a flight with an instructor onboard misinterpreting the rules for runway visuals and then allowing a false take off speed calculation is outrageous, I will never understand people's willingness to risk their own lives (and others) from sheer impatience or laziness. This kind of behaviour in an instructor of all people is disturbing.
I too felt like there was a lot of corner cutting going on with these two and that is a death knell. I hope I never fly with pilots who do that. Procedures exist for a reason.
I know nothing about planes or flying. I just love to hear people talking about incidents about which they know a lot
They went directly into airshow mode.
😂
Airshow mode on the Airbus ends with it in the trees.
@@heirofaniu 🤣
Thanks for teaching us how even non lethal mishaps can be dissected and corrected going forward.
I disagree that this captain can be retrained to become safe.
He instinctively reacted in a manner that almost killed everyone on board by preventing the control column from coming back.
I was listening to your description of the pre-flight and was thinking "what the hell this feels like a catastrophe in the making already"
Having gone through NavCan training in the mid-90's, I can confirm that the term PAN PAN and it's meaning was taught. If the tower controller failed to understand it then perhaps that's a function of being in the job for a long time and never hearing the call. Maybe it's an incredibly rare call at an airport. Urgent situations that are possible emergencies during take-off or landing are probably just handled as emergencies. If you are close to the ground and don't have the luxury of time to consider whether it's really a mayday or not, just call mayday out of an abundance of caution.
I love how every introduction of the video gives me goosebumps- It's incredible already!!!
Something a teacher of mine used to say is "only perfect practice makes perfect performance, anything less is a failure"
This is one of my favorite pages I follow and I’m not even a pilot. People never truly appreciate what pilots are doing to get us to our destination safely. You need merchandise
As a professional simulation development engineer, in a very different industry... hearing about "negative training" in this incident is tough.
There's a saying, "All models are wrong, and some models are useful."
Any sort of simulator... it's NEVER going to be 100% representative of reality, and it's so important to understand and clearly communicate both what it's good for and what it's NOT good for. Otherwise it's so easy to practice bad habits and wrong responses.
It remembers to Independent Air Flight 1851 where the Pilots were trained in the Simulator to ignore GPWS-Alarms - what they did then during a real Approach with the result of crashing the Aircraft and killing all on board.
A new Mentour’s video and it already feels like Christmas 🎉
Excellent!!
Seriously, one of the best channels on here. Insightful attention to detail galore.
SUPERLATIVE video. Like many others, until I heard "The captain later stated" I was fully convinced they had bought the farm. After watching tenths of your videos, this one made me subscribe!
The quality of animation is incredibly high, and your narration is thorough and easily understood. Good work as always. You and your team are appreciated.
The "instructor" is a dead ringer for Leslie Nielsen in Airplane 🤣
I am serious, and don't call me Shirley.
Peter, you’ll be pleased to know that your name & channel was mentioned at Flightsim 2024 in Las Vegas. It was mentioned as an excellent tool on knowing what not to do and how to forgo problems in different phases of flight.. thank you for all you do for the industry.
I often do my everyday work and imagine that your voice starts narrating that i forgot something trivial in a chain of labor that will end up causing some giant disaster in our labs
Why would an airplane, especially if it has electric trim, be designed in a way that the pilot would lack the strength to over come a full trim?
There have been several cases where a malfunction has caused a run-a-trim. If the pilot would be unable to overcome a full trim setting, then that run-a-way trim would be a single point failure.
I'm not sure. You'd think full yoke deflection should trigger auto-trim to assist but I guess not.
It's because the elevators are actually on the horizontal stabilizer (the big thing on the tail plane that moves when you trim). So when they move, the elevators that are attached to them move as well. Sure, you could argue that the maximum angle of the horizontal stabilizer should then be more restricted. But then you could end up in situations where you are out of trim at certain speeds and altitudes which isn't very nice for the pilots. The other option would then be to make the elevators longer. But then you end up with an airplane with very sensitive pitch controls which also isn't a very good solution.
Edit: I should also add that there are other things that can be done, like moving the whole tail further from the center of lift to create more leverage. That would then cause a whole host of other problems. Like with so many things in engineering it's about finding a balance.
It should also be noted that the question as written could be read to imply that a runaway trim cannot be dealt with unless the elevators are able to overpower the stabilizer. That is not true. There should always be a manual backup that takes precedence over the electrical trim that would allow the pilots to trim the aircraft without the use of electrical trim.
This is a good question and I would like to know the answer.
Pilots are trying to recognize runaway trim, and deal with it before it’s a problem. I know it can happen relatively quickly, but still.
Maybe as a final protection, sure, but surprise trim I don’t think would be that helpful. There are always options to trim manually.
Seems like it might be a good idea to have the CVR NEVER delete at the end of a flight..
It would seem somewhat straightforward to save these off to an aircraft based solid state drive, then at regular intervals that drive can get synchronised to an airport based server which would keep all of these for future reference.
I could imagine pilots not liking this..... but there could be value for pilots in looking at issues in their flying or even their cockpit interactions.....
Be interested to hear what others think
I'm a new to your channel but I'm excited with the quality of your content, Peter! I'm a nervous flyer and hope that your channel could help me to reduce the anxiety. And now I'm so in love with aviation that I decided to go to a simulator to try in taking off, flying and landing.
The BIGGEST 'Takeaway' for this video is: "Once you become an 'Instructor' don't become so self-important or take your evaluation duties so seriously that you become useless & unhelpful!"
@@PureMagma by big takeaway is ...pray like crazy that your pilots are awake and having a good day!!
Yes, keep watching his videos. It’s really made me impressed by the safety built into aviation.
This gets better and better. Fantastic production value, Petter.
I've had a takeoff like this. The only difference is I'm just using MSFS, not a real plane.
I absolutely adore this channel. Everything explained in a way that's easy to understand, presented in a professional manner. Students learning from Captain Hörnfeldt are the luckiest people on this planet!
28:00 some how "that's a really terrifying combination" is still an understatement. (Don't forget 15 slats too)
I love your videos! But is this a new one or a repeat? The Tetris analogy is so memorable, I’m sure I’ve watched this before!
Yeah, I actually think I used it in another video 😂😂
@@MentourPilotyep, the IcelandAir video. Granted, similar rush, just opposite circumstances.
@@MentourPilot to me the Tetris analogy is a great example of your unique knack of storytelling. I hope you will use it again! I look forward to hearing you say “my regular viewers will know that I often liken these situations to the final seconds of a game of Tetris …”
Well, at least I learned how to use trim now (i play MSFS)
But, great video!
Glad I could help! 💕😂
@@MentourPilot thanks! 😂
The complexities here are remarkable. Amazing what pilots have to learn, and to operate in these complicated machines and maneuvers. Phew. Impressive explaining of all this, wow.
38:00 Dayum, even from the comfort of my bed, that audio was terrifying
Power Pitch Trim, The Absolute Basics of Flight Control but its amazing how quickly things spiral out of control when you fall behind the Aircraft.
Lack of manual flying
I am not a pilot, but I wanted to tell you how much I appreciate your very professional explanations of these sad events. Thank you.
I think "pilot induced" errors are more common than we think. With the advantages of planes being automated, I this can cause the pilots to rely on the plane instead of their own knowledge.
Somatogravic illusion. Every time I get on an airplane and when the pilots begin their takeoff roll, it always feels like *and looks like* the airplane is in a pitch up configuration, even when the airplane is still well below the speed needed to get airborne.
I've mentioned this to people in passing, and they just don't seem to get it.
So I'm glad to hear that I'm not just crazy, that somatogravic illusion is a real thing, and I'm glad to know there's actually a term for that sensation.
that's probably a scourge we've been battling that's lead to many deaths and incidents since the beginning of aviation right?
@@Zach-h2l I don't know. I only know it's a sensation I feel when accelerating down the runway.
@robertgantry2118 Agreed, I love it because it actually looks like the whole front of the plane is sticking up in the air and you are looking uphill even though you can still feel the wheels rolling on the ground. That said, I hate when they stop accelerating during the climb out and it feels like you drop about 30 feet 😅
You would think that there would be a highly noticeable notice if the trim ever hit maximum in either direction? If the only way you can verify what the trim setting is is by looking down at the wheels themselves, it seems as if there is a problem somewhere?
Is it just me or does anyone else think cockpits are waaaaaaaaaaaay too complicated. All the different dials, modes, signals, sensors. It's too much isn't it.
The best airline channel on YT by far, the GOAT. Takk så mye Petter.
Thank you so much! That’s really nice to hear 💕
@@MentourPilot I also love this channel and learn so much from you 🏆🔥🎰
I'm agape over the documents you referenced at 35:30 being marked "TOP SECRET" 🤯🤯😱😱 isn't that basically concealment of critical information that the aviation community needed? 🫣 😰
“Things were about to get worse” was used in this episode more than most I remember. This should be a training video on things NOT to do. I feel great sympathy for the cabin crew and passengers.
Great video. It's crazy to realize the difference between what I perceive panic to be based on the storytelling vs. actually hearing it through that accidental radio broadcast. Crazy scary.
So, the instructor pilot was the monitoring pilot who did not monitor and did not instruct. No V call, no gear up, brilliant. How about a visual sweep thru the pedestal? Sorry but this two guys did too much errors for a professional pilot. We talk here about a Captain and an Instructor, how do Rookies fly in this company???
Yep. The CRM here seems to have been a major issue. Pilot feeling he has to cope and not ask for any help not volunteered, and instructor thinking he's checking out the piot, so needs to back off and let the pilot sort everything out.
Both of them would probably have done better if they had been a normal crew. Seems like they need a briefing in any situation like this, where they both agee that is is ok to call "uncle" if either feels safety is becoming compromised, so they can work together in the regular more open and communicative way to resolve the situation.
Love your vids! Clicked instantly
Can u make video of american eagle 4184 also great video so far
RVR in Canada is in feet. So normal IFR takeoff requires 1/2 mile visibility or close to 2600 RVR. RVO Takeoff requires 1200 RVR (1200 feet). LVO Takeoff requires RVR 600 (600 feet). In my airline, Captains can do LVO (600 RVR) and First Officers can do RVO (1200 RVR) but for either of those the Captain must have 100 hours PIC. So not until they have 100 hours actually in command of the real aircraft.
So the meter references in the video should be feet. RVO is Reduced Visibility Operations and LVO is Low Visibility Operations.
Thank God it didn't crash
Bro you spoiled me 💀
Indeed. The Pilots had obviously no clue what was going on and what to do.
This account has made me so terrified of flying lol. Before this, I thought any kind of plane incident was extremely rare, exclusive to sketchy developing country airlines or from a long time ago. I didn’t realise just how many accidents and deaths there were and recent too. I know, I know, it’s still statistically safer than driving, but still 😭
Airplane is the safest means of transportation
They ARE very rare!
It's like watching "worst serial killers in the world", it doesn't mean there's lots of serial killers out there or that you are likely to become a victim
from an average 98,655 flights per day world wide that still makes this sort of thing extremely rare
@@MentourPilot And yet you find at least one incident every two weeks to investigate. There was plenty of information to unpack even from an incident rather than an accident. I'm so pleased that this incident did not result in a hull loss or the loss of human lives!
Similar thing happened at the Three Mile Island nuclear power plant. Many things went wrong, but the main issue was that the operators had a completely wrong mental picture due to a flaw in the simulator they were trained on. They were convinced that the coolant level is too high, when in reality it was too low.
And a similar situation happened at Davis-Besse a few months earlier, but there the shift manager could reason out the problem and stopped the disaster. Unfortunately this information wasn't communicated to other plants.
When I saw that you were doing this flight, I literally made a bowl of popcorn to watch it. Just when you thought it couldn't get worse, it did. I am glad they're both ok, it could have ended so much differently.
Oh nooo I already hear French Canadian swears. Everyone hang on! D:
Yeah! This one is pretty intense!
Good video!
I find these videos highly interesting, and educational. It is mind blowing what pilots need to be able to cope with, especially in non-standard situations. I keep wondering though, how much of this translates to military fighter jets. Fighters being built for g-forces beyond human abilities, thrust to weight way over 1:1, most now unstable by design, etc. would you consider bringing on some ex military pilots and discuss publicly available events? I don’t want this to become a military channel at all, but I am unaware of a similar channel for military flight operations. Closest topic may be: how does a fully loaded C-5m handle vs a fully loaded a-380?
Wow many many thanks to Mentour Pilot for teaching us how to do things like trimming an Airbus. As I comment here I just saw on CNN an ATR 72 crashed in Brasil. Because of watching videos like this I can speculate that the airplane entered an aerodynamic stall and did not immediately execute the stall recovery procedure to lower the nose thus decreasing the angle of attack and regainging control so the plane dropped out the sky in one minute.
Perfect video to watch while I eat.😂
I hope you will enjoy it!
The end of a Tetris game is a perfect analogy for what pilots must feel. I knew exactly what you meant right away.😢
I appreciate how much time and energy goes into researching and making these videos. The technical details I sure make it easy for someone in your business to understand, however myself who knows very little about flying is able to follow along for the most part. Great story telling abilities. Love the breakdown.
I finally clearly got what ‘out of trim’ means… Thank you so much for that and for telling all those stories with such level of details and deepness! in fact there is so much more behind the picture provided by AirCrash Inverstigation series… Wish you all the best and kindest regards
“No one is actually hurt”! Uncontrolled bowel movement of the passengers surely qualifies as “hurt”!
Assuming they knew what had happened. Somatographic illusion would also operate with them, giving them the impression that the plane was being pushed up and up and up... even when it was diving (but continuing to accelerate). Not having a front view probably was merciful for them. "Man, this thing has taken off like a rocket for the longest time...."
I’ve stumbled on some other channels that try to educate around air incidents, none come close to this channel.
As always, exceptional review of this incident. Passengers never really know what is happening in the cockpit. Scary! Thank you for the video. Blessings to you and stay safe.
Dude you are better than Netflix- I’ve never had any motivation of becoming a pilot and I have severe flight anxiety but your videos are both so well written, spoken, and edited that I don’t get worried when I fly now. You and green dot aviation are doing gods work
I can still hear my flight instructor 30 years after the fact -- "DON'T FLY THE F***ING AIRPLANE WITH THE TRIM CONTROL!" 😂 I always had a bad habit of doing that. I'd use the electric trim control to make the airplane do what I wanted instead of using the yoke first then trimming off the excess force. I don't know why that habit was so hard to break, but it seemed to take me forever to get over it.
Wow. I was sure they weren't going to make it. I'm so glad that habit (trim adjust) and the aircraft itself got this under control in time to not hit the ground. Thanks for the information! If I ever get to be a pilot, I'll be so much safer because of you.
I would add a panic button that engages the autopilot to just stabilise the plane to fly straight forward
I don't watch series. I prefer binge-watching Mentour Pilot videos!
Everything is top notch, Petter! I even watch your ads with so much attention ❤ you have a great team helping you, and also I want to be that excellent as you are.
1) Airbus systems saves so many videos I question if you are sponsered by them
2) I just cannot imagine going through all that and then going "ok, I think we should continue with the flight"... but I guess I get not wanting to go anywhere near the ground atm, and especially not land while still in the state of mind that lead you to that situation to begin with
No such thing as too much power 😁 jk
In this case.. yes
U were right without the jk. It woulda been fine if trained properly. No such thing as too much power
As I watched this scenario unfold, the old adage of, "I'm from the government and I'm here to help." The variation of this, at least to me, is "I'm automation and I'm here to help."
Yes, automation is a great assistance to pilots, especially complex and large airplanes. Yet we have many incidents and accidents related to pilots' use of automation and not fully understanding it, The FAA and the NTSB have addressed the concern that pilots lose their basic stick and rudder skills when their companies SOP's are focused on using them to the max to save fuel costs.
It is shocking just how quickly things can go from bad to worse. I really sympathise with the pilots.
Can easily relate how easy it is to get over whelmed. I was in an unfamiliar type of shower and quickly went from freezing cold to scalding, managed to level off the temperature
It shows a really dangerous inability to conclude what has gone wrong to the point of crashing a functioning airplane.
Hi Petter! It's been a while since I sent a quick "hello" message justo say how much I've been enjoying and learning from your work for several years now. For no particular reason. I decided that tonight's the night to just say "Hi" and wish you and your family all the best that life has to offer. A nd that's it! Short and sweet. You have my admiration and "bon ami", Petter. Stay well and careful and (of course this is just my own prejudice) may God guide your hands, heart and mind for many many many years od flying and teaching. Your friend-
Gordon S Raskin MD Near Berkeley, CA, USA
That was the cleverest break into a sponsor segment that I've seen in a while.